British F3 News

There was an official test at Croft on Wednesday and Thursday. There's a good report from autosport.com here (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66323), but I have borrowed their summary of the aggregate best times over the two days:
Pos Driver Team Car Time
1. Jaime Alguersuari Carlin Motorsport D/M 1:12.696
2. Atte Mustonen Raikkonen Robertson D/M 1:12.977
3. Esteban Guerrieri Ultimate Motorsport M/M 1:13.149
4. Nick Tandy JTR M/M 1:13.192
5. Marcus Ericsson Fortec Motorsport D/M 1:13.197
6. Philipp Eng Hitech Racing D/M 1:13.247
7. Brendon Hartley Carlin Motorsport D/M 1:13.268
8. John Martin Raikkonen Roberston D/M 1:13.276
9. Sebastian Hohenthal Fortec Motorsport D/M 1:13.282
10. Michael Devaney Ultimate Motorsport M/M 1:13.317
11. Sam Abay Carlin Motorsport D/M 1:13.356
12. Sergio Perez T-Sport D/M 1:13.405
13. Henry Arundel Raikkonen Robertson D/M 1:13.455
14. Alistair Jackson Raikkonen Robertson D/M 1:13.494
15. Hywel Lloyd CF Racing (N) D/H 1:13.658
16. Walter Grubmuller Hitech Racing D/M 1:13.705
17. Oliver Turvey Carlin Motorsport D/M 1:13.752
18. Philip Major Fortec Motorsport D/M 1:13.984
19. Ricardo Teixeira Ultimate Motorsport M/M 1:14.012
20. Salman Al-Khalifa T-Sport (N) D/H 1:14.191
21. Andy Meyrick Carlin Motorport (N) D/H 1:14.219
22. Jay Bridger Fluid Motorsport (N) D/H 1:14.338
23. Steven Guerrero T-Sport (N) D/H 1:14.634
24. Kristjan Einar Carlin Motorsport (N) D/H 1:14.665
25. Stefan Wilson Fluid Motorsport (N) D/H 1:15.596
26. Oliver Oakes Team Loctite (N) D/H 1:15.741
27. Craig Reiff Nexa Racing (N) D/H 1:15.786Max Chilton wasn't there as he had exams, but Hitech ran Philipp Eng instead and that looks likely to develop into something more. Full story (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66322). Another good young driver for the Series.

For once Andy Meyrick wasn't fastest in the National Class, that honour going to Hywel Lloyd.

Jaime Alguersuari's time was the fastest F3 time ever seen at Croft, but it was Brendon Hartley who had been given the bonus of shaking down the brand new Toro Rosso (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66320).

The next test is at Snetterton on Tuesday and Wednesday and Oliver Oakes may be out again, but this time in the International Class Dallara Mercedes that he plans to run for the rest of the season.

It's also likely that Viktor Jensen will be returning to the Series shortly in a Mugen-Honda powered Dallara, so 30 cars is looking a distinct possibility.

i preview many crashes in macau gp. many many young players in british league this year. only team ultimate has oldies.

The next official test is at Snetterton tomorrow (Tuesday) and Wednesday.

Times available from TSL Timing (although their website seems to be playing up at the moment, so I can't give you a direct link) and, if you can drag yourselves away from work, you can always click on the Live Timing button!

I forecast rain, but as long as it doesn't turn white, that'll be okay. ;)

You predict/see any new faces? I mean those you've mentioned Oakes, Jensen, Eng?

Jeez, this young Alguersuari's pretty handy then?!

Looks like I might have to eat my words (or lack them) in my pre season gambit!!!

Is Oakes running with Team Loctite or the rumoured P1 Racing entry in the main class?

Is Oakes running with Team Loctite or the rumoured P1 Racing entry in the main class?Oakes will be running with a new team put together by his father with ex-Toyota man Nick Jordan that sort of emerged from the proposed P1 Racing plan, but iis not out this week. Maybe next week at Rockingham.

Nexa Racing are going to be running a car in the main class for Viktor Jenson. Same sort of timetable for first appearance.

Whats going on in Double R? People here in Finland has allways tought that it is top team, but they seem to strugle most with new car...? Does anyone know whats going so badly wrong, drivers are not so bad as it looks at the moment..

Whats going on in Double R? People here in Finland has allways tought that it is top team, but they seem to strugle most with new car...? Does anyone know whats going so badly wrong, drivers are not so bad as it looks at the moment..

I think it maybe a bit early to say that it is going badly wrong at Double R.
I can only assume you are refering to todays poor testing time from Atte.
Lets not forget he was on the podium at Oulton and 2nd quickest at the recent Croft test. I have predicted Atte for the title and thought he might take it with room to spare, but looking at the quality of the rookies joining the grid this season it looks like it could be one of the closes seasons ever with so much talent out there. Lets wait and see how he fairs tomorrow.

As for Arundel and Jackson, I don't know much of there background but they seemed to have faired pretty well so far against a very competitive grid.

Have to say well done to Jay Bridger today. A good day at the office to say the least, quickest in all classes in afternoon test ! and 4th in combined.

scrub that, i've just looked at the lap analysis. wrong again!

I think it maybe a bit early to say that it is going badly wrong at Double R.
I can only assume you are refering to todays poor testing time from Atte.
Lets not forget he was on the podium at Oulton and 2nd quickest at the recent Croft test. I have predicted Atte for the title and thought he might take it with room to spare, but looking at the quality of the rookies joining the grid this season it looks like it could be one of the closes seasons ever with so much talent out there. Lets wait and see how he fairs tomorrow.

As for Arundel and Jackson, I don't know much of there background but they seemed to have faired pretty well so far against a very competitive grid.

Have to say well done to Jay Bridger today. A good day at the office to say the least, quickest in all classes in afternoon test ! and 4th in combined.

actually surprised at all of you. the grid this year is mainly rookies/less experienced/younger than last couple of years. quality unknown. no wonder the rookies are "making their mark" - there are so many of them, they are bound to do so. Britsh F3 no way as competitive as Euroseries this year.

Stefan Wilson had the strangest accident I think I've ever seen. He just didn't seem to be steering through the second corner and dropped it in the tyre wall. Think I was in the right place at the right time:

http://photos-875.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v191/97/91/222304875/n222304875_2933865_6494.jpg

Hardly silencing the doubters is he Mr Wilson? With every inadequate performance I have to keep questioning the people who gave him the Young Driver Award. He's not doing much for the awards credibility at this moment in time......

As for the age old Euroseries v British F3 arguement - The Euroseries clearly has a large number of talented second year drivers. However some of the rookies racing here this year have huge potential and could go onto great things, as could the established drivers racing in the Euroseries in years to come. Thats one of the fascinating things about watching series such as F3 as no one really knows who is going to make it. I'd say the rookie talent in British F3 is at a higher level than the Euroseries but the experience of guys such as Hulkenburg will see them prosper in the international races.

The real problem for Stefan Wilson is facts like the one mentioned below, because Jay Bridger is his team-mate.Have to say well done to Jay Bridger today. A good day at the office to say the least, quickest in all classes in afternoon test ! and 4th in combined.As for BF3 compared with F3ES, personally I find what we have over far more interesting. There has to be a good reason why Red Bull chose to send Brendon Hartley and Jaime Alguersuari to race here rather than there.

True, and I think they get a lot more testing (and racing too!) than in the Euroseries or not?

Not meaning to be cruel, but great picture xelallah.

Seems that Wilson could find that winning the award could have an adverse effect on his career as any mistake will be under the spot light more so than others. Anyone got any news on Callum Mcloed ?;)

the reason i think british f3 is better than the euroseries this year is the number of unknowns. we know too much about the euroseries lot - british f3 is going to be full of surprises this year and so far it hasn't failed to provide just that.

almost tropical at snetterton this afternoon :D laaaaaaverly.

Not meaning to be cruel, but great picture xelallah.

Seems that Wilson could find that winning the award could have an adverse effect on his career as any mistake will be under the spot light more so than others. Anyone got any news on Callum Mcloed ?;)

I'd agree completely with that comment. I almost feel sorry for him because the weight of expectation is enormous but he must learn to cope with it and at the moment he isn't even close to living up to his billing.

Jay Bridger has clearly done a great job yesterday and I agree with an earlier poster who said that is only compounding matters for Wilson. Bridger was nowhere in Formula Ford last year though despite having some decent kit and certainly wasn't in the same league as Callum McLeod who Wilson beat to the award. The judges must be getting rather sweaty palms......

It's not very often that a circuit reports an F3 test - http://www.motorsportvision.co.uk/news/article.asp?NewsID=3663

The Red Bull pair set their times in the morning. Esteban Guerrieri was fastest in the afternoon and Joe Tandy was also in the top six, so the Mygales look to be on the pace already. Jay Bridger again starred in the National Class, but, to be fair he's done more mileage than anyone else in the class, starting last year and most of that has been at Snetterton.

It will be interesting to see how the teams and drivers compare when they run at Rockingham next Thursday. As bella implies, nothing is predictable yet, so we could see another shake-up in the order.

Great to see the Mygales taking the fight to Dallara. I know it's early to say, but looks like after being quick at snetterton, croft and some great racing at oulton, Mygale can put a real dent in the dominance of Dallara. I think that with Guerrieri's experience and now in a competitive set up it won't be to long before we see him on the top of the podium.

Viktor Jensen will be contesting the remainder of the Series in a Nexa Racing-run Dallara F308 Mugen-Honda. Story here. (http://www.fota.co.uk/news.php?action=showArticle&params%5Bid%5D=563)

The next official test is at Rockingham on Thursday and will be the last one before Round 2 at Croft at the end of the month.

Great to see the Mygales taking the fight to Dallara. I know it's early to say, but looks like after being quick at snetterton, croft and some great racing at oulton, Mygale can put a real dent in the dominance of Dallara. I think that with Guerrieri's experience and now in a competitive set up it won't be to long before we see him on the top of the podium.


Of course running veterans is bound to give an advantage in the early part of ther season; then the newcomers tend to catch up, so I'd expect the gap to deepen later this season. In any case the Mygale reality is a good element of interest.

Not meaning to be cruel, but great picture xelallah.

Thanks :) - luck really tho, just happened to be walking past a hole in the fence.

Oliver Oakes tested for Eurotek Motorsport today at Rockingham, and the Mygales have gone bright orange...

the new ultimate colour scheme is i think possibly the only colour i've ever seen to clash with *everything*.

it'll come out nice in black and white photos though ;)

Marcus Ericsson is upset that they've stolen his colour...

I quite like the colour, it reminds me of the original McLaren orange, which was very distinctive.

Anyway, I doubt if Ultimate will leave it at that. I suspect there will some additions by the time the car next appears at Croft.

Getting back to Rockingham, it was dry, sunny even, but with a wind coming straight from Siberia. What is it about that place?

Marcus Ericsson was fastest in both sessions, with Sergio Perez putting his Mugen-Honda powered car in fourth overall and Nick Tandy right behind him in the fastest Mygale. It was Salman Al-Khalifa's turn to head up the National Class, addmittedly in the absence of Andrew Meyrick, but Jay Bridger didn't reproduce his Snetterton form.

Getting back to Rockingham, it was dry, sunny even, but with a wind coming straight from Siberia. What is it about that place
eeest aaanglier is a terrible godforsaken place ;) no really, it's actually more likely to do with the fact everything east of there is completely flat (we have mountains round here - they're 10 metres above sea level). out in the fens you can see the curve of the earth... as a result there's pretty much nothing to stop the wind coming right off the north sea, and that comes from some fairly chilly places.

having said that, i bet you'll tell me the wind was coming from the west and the above isn't relevant ;)

So, how come Oakes doesn't show up in the timing?

So, how come Oakes doesn't show up in the timing?They were literally finishing the car in the garage for a good part of the day and, although they did get out later in the in the afternoon, it was the first time the car had turned a wheel and they chose not to fit a transponder, so no times were recorded.

There's a more detailed report up on autosport.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66707) now.

After Mygale recording there first podium in F3 at croft over the weekend it would seem confidence in the Ultimate camp is high.

Could Monza see Dallara knocked off the top spot? Ultimate seem to think so.
Story at Autosport.com http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67030

What do you fellow tt'ers think ?

I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ultimate Mygale win at Monza. Quite apart from the car, Guerrieri and Devaney are two very good drivers but, as they say in that article, they do need reliability.

Then again, who's to say Sergio Perez won't repeat his Croft success. He certainly thinks it's on the cards - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67004

Monza is always fantastic, but this year it could be especially so. I can't wait! :)

Bad weather - yet again - made the official pre-race test at Thruxton yesterday a complete waste of time. Report here (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67820). Ignore the reference to Snetterton; it was Thruxton, believe me, and very wet and miserable it was, too.

Atte Mustonen was fastest in the first 55-minute session, confirming his renewed title threat. There should have been a two hour session in the afternoon, but after a few minutes at the beginning, when it was slightly drier than it had been earlier, the rain returned heavily, so much so that the track flooded and all running stopped. The teams were offered another 50-minute session later in the day, but by then they had had enough and chose to go home. At least Sam Abay had made the most of the small window of opportunity and put his name at the top of the timesheets for the first time, which was good to see.

The problem with all this is that when the race meeting comes around at the end of June, the drivers will have to go straight into qualifying and Murphy's Law says it's bound be warm and dry.

I know that current Dallara has different, more aero efficient, characteristics than 305... but, knowing datas from previous meetings can they use basic set-ups from 305 in 308s? Does it work? Or is it completely different task to set-up new car.

The set-up is not really the problem, Alex. Basically, it's the same as Monza and they have already raced there. But Monza is mostly straights with three chicanes and a few straightforward fast corners. Thruxton only has one straight worth the name, plus a chicane and another tight sequence. The rest of the time, the cars are cornering very, very fast indeed and this puts great strain on the tyres, particularly the left front.

Every category that races there has this problem. There were several blowouts in the BTCC meeting a couple of weeks back. The answer is to put a slightly conservative set-up on the car and not do many laps in qualifying, but if you know you can go faster by being aggressive with the set-up and doing more laps, sometimes it's hard to hold back and now the teams won't have any pre-race experience to use.

In other news, it seems likely that the Litespeed-owned SLC chassis will finally make its début in the National Class at Snetterton next weekend with reigning FFord champion, Callum McLeod, at the wheel.

Good to hear that Callum has found a drive - he was really impressive last year :) .

Good to hear that Callum has found a drive - he was really impressive last year :) .

I'd agree, I thought it was a shame that a driver with such talent should be on the sidelines for the start of the season. I watched a few of Callum's races last year and his speed was awesome. He did some testing with Ultimate Mygale after winning the FF championship, but was unable to secure a seat. Will be interesting to see if the SLC chassis will match the talents of the driver, if so it might give Andy Meyrick a reason to be looking in his mirrors a bit more often.

Italiaracing.net are confirming that Esteban Guerrieri will be moving upto WSR with Ali Jackson taking his seat at Ultimate. IMO a big loss fo BF3 but I'm pleased that Esteban has been given the chance to drive at a higher level (?);)

Alan Gow throws his toys out of the pram over BF3 rethink

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68184

Without knowing the politics behind the argument, I'd have to say I'm glad SRO will remain in control of the BF3 calender.

Although racing alongside BTCC would benefit exposure for the series with increased crowd attendance. I think this is outweighed by the fact of driving on the more glamourous european circuits, which must be a big plus for drivers gaining experience when wanting to further there career beyond F3.

Will be interesting to see next years calender at the end of the season, have SRO pulled some big circuits out of the bag to sway the deal ?

I would agree with wannab-aracer in that whilst SRO meetings may not be the most attended, as F3 is fundamentally an educational formula it perhaps makes more sense to include a couple of circuits where drivers will race in the later stages of their careers.

As for why F3 didn't move to the TOCA package, I suspect that as the teams did not have the neccesary infrastructure and people in place (as suggested in the Autosport article) then that may have been a signficant reason.

I would agree with wannab-aracer in that whilst SRO meetings may not be the most attended, as F3 is fundamentally an educational formula it perhaps makes more sense to include a couple of circuits where drivers will race in the later stages of their careers.

As for why F3 didn't move to the TOCA package, I suspect that as the teams did not have the necessary infrastructure and people in place (as suggested in the Autosport article) then that may have been a signficant reason.The lack of an infrastructure would not have been a problem if anything had been done to create one, but it hadn't been.

There were three real problems. First, unlike SRO, there was never a full proposal to all the teams, most of whom had no idea that an Agreement had been signed last October, much less what it said. Secondly, the idea of being just another support race on the TOCA package was not very appealing. Thirdly, the circuits. If you say to a young driver, come and race on the Silverstone National, Brands Indy and Knockhill circuits, how does that compare with, say, Monza, Spa and Nurburgring? No contest, really. ;)

With the LH factor in mind, more and more interest will grow over the following years in F3.

comments like

"For the good of F3, we will not pursue any action. But we have absolutely no interest, either now or in the future, to deal with such a group of team owners who are willing to ignore their commitments and have proven their total inability to properly organise themselves."


seems like " I just missed a big fish " ;)

Carrera Cup is dead, SEAT Cupra is dead BF3 would've been second series behind BTCC one step over the FR2.0 in the ladder. I know that we wouldn't have Monza, but you can sacrifice Knockhill and go to Spa with one of international series or Belgian GTs if you can brake a deal. This is British based championship strider, I can afford going to Monza or Nurburgring, but tell me how many more F3 supporters would go to see BF3 on the streets of Bucharest? Euro expantion means bigger budgets. Sad they didn't come to conclusion with TOCA.

I am not insider in this championship, but IMO even if they stroke deal with TOCA we would still be second best to F3ES, even w/o Monza and Spa they've still could attract many young stars of junior ladder.

There would have still have been an opportunity to run additional races overseas with the TOCA deal. There are only 10 BTCC rounds, so a full calendar could have easily included Spa, Monza, Montmelo etc.

I sympathise with the F3 drivers. Button and Sato made the jump from F3 to F1, but the demands of live TV, busy press conferences and recognition from 15,000 + spectators at each BTCC round would have really helped the current bunch in making the leap into international motorsport through a well promoted package.

You have to look at the facts.

Stephane Ratel made a presentation to all the teams at Monza and backed it up with a written proposal. He met the teams again at Snetterton and then they signed on the dotted line.

Alan Gow talked at most to five of the current teams, but there was never a presentation or written proposal to everyone, despite a request being made. Nobody seems to have seen the alleged Agreement with TOCA and it was signed by someone who is no longer running an F3 team. Gow has now thrown his toys out of the pram and called the F3 teams disorganised, but he never made an effort to talk to them all, so maybe he didn't do his homework properly.

You have to look at the facts.

Stephane Ratel made a presentation to all the teams at Monza and backed it up with a written proposal. He met the teams again at Snetterton and then they signed on the dotted line.

Alan Gow talked at most to five of the current teams, but there was never a presentation or written proposal to everyone, despite a request being made. Nobody seems to have seen the alleged Agreement with TOCA and it was signed by someone who is no longer running an F3 team. Gow has now thrown his toys out of the pram and called the F3 teams disorganised, but he never made an effort to talk to them all, so maybe he didn't do his homework properly.

Havent you got that around the wrong way? It was FOTA and the major F3 teams that made the approach to Gow, so why should he have given a presentation to them? It was they that should have made a presentation to him, if anything.

Besides, when the agreement was negotiated and signed it was signed by the then chairman of FOTA. Just because he is no longer in that position does not mean that any previous commitments made by FOTA are null and void!

If you read Gow's statement in full, it explains it much more throughly and I note that FOTA or no F3 team owner has come out and pointed out any inaccuracies in it;

During the course of the 2007 season, I was approached by individual F3 team-owners who wished to explore the possibility of F3 joining the TOCA package (on a permanent basis) from either 2008 or 2009.

It should be made very clear from the outset that at no time did TOCA approach the F3 teams, either individually or collectively – it was solely those teams and their organisation whom instigated the approach and discussions. These negotiations progressed over the next few weeks to the stage where it was agreed that they would join the BTCC support races for a minimum period of 3 years, from 2009.

As, collectively, the F3 teams did not have a legal-entity with which to enter into a formal agreement with ourselves, a new company (FOTA GB Ltd) was formed by the chairman of FOTA for that purpose. A legally binding contract was drawn-up with FOTA GB Ltd., on October 19th 2007 and signed thereafter by both organisations, to commit both parties to that 3 year period (2009, 2010, 2011).

Another meeting was held between TOCA, BARC, FOTA GB and the major F3 team owners on 15th February 2008 in order to clarify some operational aspects of their participation in the TOCA package. The meeting concluded with FOTA GB, and those individual F3 team owners, again confirming and endorsing their participation in the TOCA package.

In the intervening period, and right up until this date, my organisation has arranged substantial cash sponsorship/income arrangements for FOTA (amounting to a minimum of £125,000) in order to enable them to run their series profitably and provide a solid financial base for their future. This we did without any obligation whatsoever to do so and without any financial benefit to ourselves, but purely as a matter of assistance and goodwill to those teams.

We are now advised that they do not wish to proceed with what was clearly agreed between the parties and to ignore their commitments made to TOCA.

We are extremely surprised and disappointed to learn that FOTA GB and those teams have chosen to completely neglect the undertakings they made to TOCA. However, for the good of F3, we will not pursue any action against them for disregarding their obligations….after all, we entered into this arrangement for their direct benefit and as a sole result of their instigation, rather than ours.

However, it has underlined our view that we have absolutely no interest (either now or in the future) to deal with such a group of team owners, or organisation, whom are willing to completely ignore and/or show no inclination to fulfil their commitments - and have proven their total inability to properly organise themselves into a cohesive and workable alliance.

I can't say what FOTA and/or the F3 team owners are doing. Maybe they're consulting their lawyers or maybe they're just thinking Alan Gow has made himself look a bit silly, but even I can spot obvious flaws in his statement and your remarks.

The fact that the alleged Agreement was signed by the then Chairman of FOTA (the Association) is irrelevant. He signed it as the Director of FOTA GB Ltd, which was then a brand new company with just a Director and Secretary, nothing else. He had no mandate from FOTA or the F3 teams to sign the Agreement, indeed more than half of them had not even been told what was going on, much less consulted as to their opinions. The fact that he was Chairman of FOTA certainly didn't give him authority to sign.

I could go on, but I am bored with this already and so I'm sure is everyone else. It's simply a non-story.

Right..... So the major teams and the chairman of their association approached Gow about joining TOCA and negotiated a deal. The chairman formed a company, signed a contract and the major teams (you say about half of them) also have joint meetings with TOCA and BARC and agree to go ahead with the arrangement.

Gow then arranges income for them so that their series is profitable - but then the teams back out of it because their chairman didnt supply them with enough information or show them the contract or did not have a mandate to enter into a contract.

And somehow you think Gow looks silly in this? Yeah, sure, that makes sense......

Right..... So the major teams and the chairman of their association approached Gow about joining TOCA and negotiated a deal. The chairman formed a company, signed a contract and the major teams (you say about half of them) also have joint meetings with TOCA and BARC and agree to go ahead with the arrangement.Let me try again.. The Director of FOTA GB signed a contract, but the 'major teams' (less than half, by the way) had not indicated that they were happy with the deal that was on the table, as there were plenty of loose ends still to be clarified. Even after the joint meetings with TOCA and BARC, they still felt that not all their questions had been answered, so they had still not signed anything and there was no question of any of them being shareholders in FOTA GB.Gow then arranges income for them so that their series is profitable - but then the teams back out of it because their chairman didnt supply them with enough information or show them the contract or did not have a mandate to enter into a contract.You only know what Gow has said, which is not gospel. You do not know (I'm assuming) how much FOTA GB was going to have to pay TOCA for the 'privilege' of being just another support race on the TOCA package. The figure Gow mentions was just a fraction of that outlay, unless my information is totally wrong, which I doubt. And somehow you think Gow looks silly in this? Yeah, sure, that makes sense......It does; he didn't carry out due diligence.

Over and out.

Right..... so its (somehow) Gow's fault that FOTA did not get their own act together, internally, after their Chairman and some of the major teams committed them and contracted them to it. What a really bizarre twist you try to put on it! You don't really see something wrong with the scenario? They approached TOCA. They negotiated with TOCA, they contracted with TOCA but they could not collectively get their act together and all agree - but bizarrely its Gow's fault??? What a joke.

Money? Yes your info is totally wrong. Perhaps you should ask your 'informant' how much SRO are taking off the F3 teams for the 'priviledge' of being part of their package? SRO take all the F3 teams registration fees, which is some £12k per car. Multiply that by, what, 25 cars? That's some £300k!! and is much more than what TOCA were going to charge....let alone with also being handed £125k that they found in sponsorship for them so they can run their series at a profit.

Yes, I do treat what Gow said as gospel because, in his position, he would not fabricate those details and issue a statement and leave himself open to litigation. And like I said before, has anyone from FOTA refuted what he stated? No..their silence is deafening.

Wake up and smell the coffee.
Over and out.

Right..... so its (somehow) Gow's fault that FOTA did not get their own act together, internally, after their Chairman and some of the major teams committed them and contracted them to it. What a really bizarre twist you try to put on it! You don't really see something wrong with the scenario? They approached TOCA. They negotiated with TOCA, they contracted with TOCA but they could not collectively get their act together and all agree - but bizarrely its Gow's fault??? What a joke.Wrong again. 3, maybe 4, teams approached TOCA. A handful of teams (no more) had preminary negotiations with TOCA and then, bizarrely, the then Chairman formed a new company and used it to enter into an Agreement with TOCA. He didn't even get written approval from the handful of teams first and all the others were left completely in the dark. What I don't understand is why he felt he could do that and why Alan Gow didn't ask if he had written approval from the other teams to go ahead.Money? Yes your info is totally wrong. Perhaps you should ask your 'informant' how much SRO are taking off the F3 teams for the 'priviledge' of being part of their package? SRO take all the F3 teams registration fees, which is some £12k per car. Multiply that by, what, 25 cars? That's some £300k!! and is much more than what TOCA were going to charge....let alone with also being handed £125k that they found in sponsorship for them so they can run their series at a profit.The first part is right. Anyone can find out the registration fee by downloading the Regs from the BARC website and there have actually been more than 25 cars at every round so far. Well done. But your conclusion is totally wrong because you are not comparing like with like. The teams pay their £12,000 per car to SRO and then the whole infrastructure is in place. Event and race race organization, media coverage, TV coverage, a Race Centre, the whole package. Leaving aside the small fact that the amount FOTA GB agreed to pay TOCA was apparently 500% more than was originally discussed, it was simply a fee for being part of the package. Everything else was was being left to FOTA GB to arrange and pay for, which could easily have doubled the basic figure and it would have been the teams that had to pay that. The £125k Gow talks about would certainly have been a help, but it would not have enabled them to run the Championship at a profit. In comparison, SRO's figures begin to look very reasonable.Yes, I do treat what Gow said as gospel because, in his position, he would not fabricate those details and issue a statement and leave himself open to litigation. And like I said before, has anyone from FOTA refuted what he stated? No..their silence is deafening.

Wake up and smell the coffee.I prefer tea, thanks. Oh, and :flog: so let's call it a day. You have your views, I have mine and we're never going to agree.

"What I don't understand is why he felt he could do that and why Alan Gow didn't ask if he had written approval from the other teams to go ahead."

That merely backs up my previous point. If the Chairman of FOTA enetered into a legal agreement that he was not able to do, then how is that in any way Gow's fault? And how do you know that Gow did not seek those assurances and were verbally given them, only to find out later that FOTA did not, in fact, have their 'act together' (as it now transpires). Thus his understandable anger at their inability to arrange themselves properly and professionally.

"Everything else was was being left to FOTA GB to arrange and pay for, which could easily have doubled the basic figure and it would have been the teams that had to pay that. The £125k Gow talks about would certainly have been a help, but it would not have enabled them to run the Championship at a profit."

The fee they were to pay to TOCA was less than what SRO take, plus TOCA arranged £125k in sponsorship for FOTA so that they would have run their championship at a profit. Plus, I understand that there were absolutely no restrictions on F3 having as many races as they want in Europe or outside of the TOCA meetings. Or are you saying Gow was lying about all those facts? Have FOTA come out an denied them? No.

The statement Gow put out was obviously fact, or he would not have stated them clearly. FOTA have hidden and remained silent because they are simply unable to deny those facts. And they look very silly because of it.

I think I mentioned earlier "without knowing the politics behind the argument" well I do now ! lol ;) Thanks for the insight fella's.

In terms of - "total inability to properly organise themselves" and have there "act together" - Well FOTA managed to show they can organise and that they have there act together by moving forward with the focus of driver career development in mind.

Why would FOTA feel the need to defend there official agreement with SRO and get involved in a tit for tat argument with Mr.Gow?

The thing is though that, at least in my opinion, British F3 took a wrong decision. The competition from other relevant European series is so fierce that they will regret keeping things as they are. Put simply there are other series out there that have the same cars, are cheaper, have same or better circuits and have sponsor appeal. For international drivers wanting to do F3 it is a no-brainer really and even some British drivers are waking up to the fact. Bratt and Legris are frontrunners in Spain for less than half the prize, that can't be bad for them.

Any news on how the SLC Chassis performed? I've seen the results, but just wondered if the team were pleased with its pace etc ?

The Spanish F3 championship runs to a heavily restricted version of the FIA F3 rules using previous generation cars. The teams have draconian restrictions on testing, limited mechanical choices and are even restricted on the type and quantity of spares they are allowed to take to the track, eg a spare gearbox is not allowed.

Whilst a combination of some meetings on the toca package combined with a few carefully selected overseas races would of been the idea solution for F3, they teams are now comitted to remaining with an organiser that has a reputation for providing the team, spectators and promotors with bad value for money and using an organising club that have repeatedly proved themselves incapable of running a serious professional class of racing.

SRO can't even issue event timetables a week before the event, most other series promoters have issued that information months ahead.

Any news on how the SLC Chassis performed? I've seen the results, but just wondered if the team were pleased with its pace etc ?See below.
The car duly appeared and looked very smart. It has had to be modified to take the Mugen-Honda engine/Hewland gearbox combination, but the installation looks to have been very well done, as I'm able to judge these things. I found a photo here (http://www.britishf3international.com/gallery.php?action=showImage&params%5Bid%5D=3095).

Unfortunately, the car had literally not turned a wheel until the Friday practice sessions, which were wet. The car was running at the tail of the field, but not really far away from the pace. It was even wetter for qualifying and Callum MacLeod was 26th and 27th out of 27 in the two sessions. I think they were handicapped by a nearly flat battery, which seems to be a one-off item.

Race day was dry and sunny, which meant starting from scratch again. Callum was 22nd and last in Race 1, and retired from Race 2 after 18 laps, possibly due to the battery finally giving up the ghost. (Note: Apparently it was a steering fault. s)

It doesn't sound that great on paper, but the given the circumstances I thought they did very well and respect to the team for being prepared to jump in at the deep end. I know several people were very impressed.

The Spanish F3 championship runs to a heavily restricted version of the FIA F3 rules using previous generation cars. The teams have draconian restrictions on testing, limited mechanical choices and are even restricted on the type and quantity of spares they are allowed to take to the track, eg a spare gearbox is not allowed.


I don't know about about long ago, but not much truth in this now.

Dallara F308s are in and the amount of mileage over the year is more than comparative BF3 deals. In fact on B class, we tend to do more pre-season mileage than British B will do in the whole season!

They do have a fixed engine-spec which has broadly the same power as BF3, albeit with less torque. Revving to 7.500, instead of the 6,500 they do sound better though. They are a little slower than BF3 in all reality, though the engine costs £10k to BUY and it does all year+.

The teams cannot develop their own parts, that is true, although that can save a lot of money from the budget. Also, they don't force you to run new cars, which are no quicker than the previous ones - nor do they disallow Class B cars from scoring points overall.

The track selection includes 6 GP2/F1 circuits including F1 support. Actually 2008 is probably the last year Spanish F3 will have the word "Spanish" in it...

What's happened to Eurotek?

Actually 2008 is probably the last year Spanish F3 will have the word "Spanish" in it...With what in its place John?

What's happened to Eurotek?They're still around, but haven't raced since Croft. I think they want the whole operation to be more together before they come out again. They have their own transporter now and are looking to get their own premises. I'd guess they will be out for Spa, which is going in at the deep end again, but better that they should be out than not.

See below.

Cheers for that, It's always good to see a new chassis. I'm pleased for the Mygale's and would now like to see litespeed do well !

With what in its place John?

Don't know yet - but something to reflect that half of the races won't be in Spain, with Monza and maybe even Brands being mentioned as the sister GT Open has already had races at those tracks previously.

It'll spread the costs up John. But still, better recognision for series.

Even if budgets raise up slightly it won't affect the series overall placement in the market. It will remain 2nd best behind the Italian series and by far the most F1-relative from a circuit point of view.

Too bad Spanish does not move to the latest Fiat engines, then it would be easy for teams from Italy to enter the best Spanish F3 races and vice versa. Imagine the possibilities for young drivers, a year full of amazing circuits for sensible money: Spa, Monza, Barcelona, Valencia street, Magny Cours, Imola, Jerez, Mugello, Valencia, Estoril, Jarama, Vallelunga. Doesn't get any better really.

Can't argue with the circuits on the Spanish F3 calender.

But I think when choosing a series to compete in not only depends on the budget but the ambitions of the driver.

When scouting for talent, British F3 and the Euroseries will always be the first port of call.

I don't know if this is a good example, but Matteo Chinosi, currently the front runner in the German championship. Chinosi raced with the BF3 boys at Monza (which I would guess is a track he is very well practised on ?) After putting it at the front of the grid in rain soaked qualification, fell down the order quite sharply in the races finishing 8th.

Whilst we are talking about budgets, does anyone know ball park figures it would cost to run a car in the series' such as BF3, ES, German Spanish etc ?

This thread is about British F3. Why doesn't somebody open another for such a debate.

This thread is about British F3. Why doesn't somebody open another for such a debate.I was thinking that, but you beat me to it! ;) Getting back to Spanish F3, someone told me that the Toyota engines don't use a restrictor. The fact that they rev to 7,500rpm would tend to support that, in which case they are not F3 engines as defined by the FIA.

:laugh:

What's the rev limit in BF3?

Edit: Wait, sorry, as you were. They do have a fixed engine-spec which has broadly the same power as BF3, albeit with less torque. Revving to 7.500, instead of the 6,500 they do sound better though. They are a little slower than BF3 in all reality, though the engine costs £10k to BUY and it does all year+.

I was thinking that, but you beat me to it! ;) Getting back to Spanish F3, someone told me that the Toyota engines don't use a restrictor. The fact that they rev to 7,500rpm would tend to support that, in which case they are not F3 engines as defined by the FIA.

They are not FIA-spec F3 engines. Mind you, neither are the Italian ones, half of the German ones, the Asian ones, or the Brazilian ones. In fact the British NAtional class ones I am not sure about.

They do have a 31mm restrictor but I don't think it really does much "restricitng."

This thread is about British F3. Why doesn't somebody open another for such a debate.

Agree with you.

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107475

They are not FIA-spec F3 engines. Mind you, neither are the Italian ones, half of the German ones, the Asian ones, or the Brazilian ones. In fact the British National class ones I am not sure about.

They do have a 31mm restrictor but I don't think it really does much "restricting."BF3 National is 26.35mm, but the drivers are not allowed score points points towards the overall title. The small increase is enough to make them competitive, but not too competitive, if you see what I mean. NBE tried 26.5mm, but that was too much. 31mm is massive!

Like I said, it doesn't actually do much, but bear in mind that the motors run to 7,500 rpm.

And that's why! The 26mm restrictor is a strange device, because all it does is starve the engine of air, which keeps the revs down.

Sooner or later I think it will have to go and be replaced by a simple rev limiter. At the moment a massive amount of work goes into making the engines work efficiently despite receiving much less air than they really need to have.

But I think when choosing a series to compete in not only depends on the budget but the ambitions of the driver. When scouting for talent, British F3 and the Euroseries will always be the first port of call.
That's very relative. In my opinion at F3 level it is too late for scouting, all promising drivers are signed into development schemes much earlier. Take a look at the Euroseries grid, you will see that very few of the drivers are free agents.

Besides, during the last few years F1 teams shop exclusively from GP2 (or WSR to a much lesser extend) so F3 is now just a step towards those series. With testing/free practice restricted in both GP2 and WSR drivers are in need of learning F1 related circuits earlier in their career. That's why Euro FR2000 and Euro F3 are so popular, that's why lots of other series (F3 Spain, regional FR etc) try to include as many F1 circuits as possible. If British F3 does not follow this path (and slash costs) it is bound to suffer.

Any news on how the SLC Chassis performed? I've seen the results, but just wondered if the team were pleased with its pace etc ?

Jonathan Legris qualified it 4th (in class) today in the first session, although the second session was a 'mare as they just got it sorted out when the red flag came out and the session never restarted, stranding him a rather unrepresentative last.

Bearing in mind the incredibly limited amount of set-up data the guys have, I don't think there is much wrong with the car that a proper test programme won't sort for them.

For example, for Brands pretty much everything was "guesstimated" and there were only three, red-flag littered test sessions to try stuff with a driver who had never driven the car before, so I think 4th, only about 0.4 off pole is pretty darned good for both team and driver.

Nice bunch of guys too.

Legris just finished 2nd in class in race 1, right behind class winner (and new points leader) Jay Bridger and just ahead Steven Guerrero, who won the class last time out at Thruxton.

A very impressive performance.

The race was won by Jaime Alguersuari from Oliver Turvey and Atte Mustonen. It was stopped early due to a nastly looking shunt involving Ali Jackson, but first reports suggest the driver is basically okay.

There are reports for both races [brief report for the second race] on the official F3 site now. It says Jackson was taking to hospital as a precaution because of complaining of pain in his neck and knee [see here for both reports (http://www.fota.co.uk/news.php)].

Ali was well enough to start the second race from the back of the grid in his rebuilt car, although he pulled in after a few laps and he's going to be mighty sore in the morning.

Race 2 was a complete triumph for T-Sport and NBE Mugen-Honda. An overall win for Sergio Perez (his fourth so far), plus a 1-2 in the National Class for Steven Guerrero and Salman Al-Khalifa. It goes to show that you don't have to be a money-no-object team to achieve success. In fact, Sergio is back in the lead of the title chase, although tied on points with Jaime Alguersuari.

There are a couple of items of news, neither very good.

Seb Hohenthal has been struggling financially for a while and nearly missed Spa, but has apparently decided it is time now to stop throwing money at F3 and look for a decent, paying drive in sports cars, GTs or even touring cars. There's no reason why he shouldn't make it. The list of successful ex-BF3 drivers in those categories is endless.

Secondly, it has been confirmed that Andy Meyrick is out for the rest of the season. He missed Brands Hatch and Spa with a mystery illness, but now it's official that #56 will not run again this season, which is very sad.

Jay Bridger might not agree, but right from the beginning of the season Andy looked destined for National Class honours. Let's hope he uses this time to recover completely and come back even stronger next year, probably in an International Class car.

According to the FOTA site, Andy could be back for Donington.

I hope you're right. It makes sense as there's a big enough gap before then.

On a brighter note, Double R will be running the Brazilian, Clemente Faria Jr, in their fourth car at Silverstone. He was the dominant winner of the South American F3 Championship last year, so could be the next in a long line of Brazilians to compete successfully in British F3.

Hohenthal back for Macau?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69890

I really hope he does this, if he does well there I don´t think it will mather very much that he left the championship.

From motorsport news this week - Meyrick wants to be back in his car at Donington.

From motorsport news this week - Meyrick wants to be back in his car at Donington.

Interview with Andy at Silverstone here (http://www.britishf3international.com/pitwall.php?action=showArticle&params%5Bid%5D=701)

So what did we think of Clemente Faria Jr then ?