GP2 - Hockenheim!

Bit slow on the uptake folks aren't we??!! ;)

Pantano on pole by a fair margin from Grosjean and Zuber who possibly qualifies far better then he goes in races, Buemi, Di Grassi, Senna, Parente, Kobayash, Villa and Petrov.

Kobauashi got a 5 place penalty though apparently for 'blocking' Lucas in qualy.

Conway and Maldonado are well down as are the FMS cars and Valles in 25th for BCN?

Live TV somewhere on the web ?

I'm also intersted in a live stream.

Try French Eurosport website - generally there are live timing there.
Alas, GP2 Series website has newsfeed about the race...

Try French Eurosport website - generally there are live timing there.
Alas, GP2 Series website has newsfeed about the race...

Live comments : http://www.eurosport.fr/gp2/hockenheim/2008/course-1-(40-tours)_mtc243188/live.shtml

Bernie or ITV closed the justin.tv linked... so nowhere to watch, no live timing... If you guys somehow find streaming for TV2 Sport, it's Danish, it shows it and I watched qualy on repeat there, but it's broken now...

try to see race live in...
http://pt.justin.tv/caifanromeo

or here:
http://pt-br.justin.tv/wantingito

This time Fox Sports Latin America decided to put beach football instead... Well... :rolleyes:

Soid's law.... I got bored of the race and switched over just as the rain started.

Grosjean kept his head well and deserved the win

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Romain Grosjean ART 58:52.430
2. Giorgio Pantano Racing Engineering +10.996
3. Alvaro Parente Super Nova +54.244
4. Bruno Senna iSport +56.654
5. Lucas di Grassi Campos +60.201
6. Pastor Maldonado Piquet Sports +60.406
7. Andy Soucek Super Nova +61.764
8. Karun Chandhok iSport +79.413
9. Alberto Valerio Durango +1:07.474
10. Javier Villa Racing Engineering +1 lap

Quite dull while it was dry, but action-packed in those closing laps. Ironic that Senna may have benefitted from the incident with Buemi, because it forced his hand into putting wet tyres on. Strange that such a small, compressed circuit in open surroundings should have such a variety of conditions in different corners.

Grosjean's been penalised for lapping Asmer under yellows (despite five blue flags having been waved at Marko) so Pantano gets the win. Meanwhile Petrov, Conway and d'Ambrosio get 10 places docked for the sprint for not slowing down enough under the same yellows, go figure.

Pantano & RE deserve the win , this weekend pole , fastest Lap and 19 points ahead Senna.

i find it very amusing that grosjean got kicked for something bruno senna was careful to avoid doing at silverstone. all it takes is a bit of brain to look for yellow flags.

Does Asmer get a penalty for not obeying the blue flags? Seems like an unfair decision to penalise Grosjean in that situation.

not really. grosjean should have slowed through the yellow flags anyway, so it's arguable he shouldn't have suffered any further lack of speed by not managing to get past asmer until after the yellow flag zone (let's remember that it's still his responsibility to lap people., rather than the other way round..).

Well incident strewn 2nd race so far.

Filippi collided with another car off line scattering cars all around which almost certainly helped Conway and Kobayashi's progress from the back.

Pantano collided with Soucek exiting hairpin whilst battling for 4th. Thus race minus points leader.

Di Grassi led early on but started going backwards, on lap 2. Chandhok and Zuber went past relatively easily it has to be said and then Maldonado really made him go backwards and out with a huge punt (make that harpoon) coming into the hairpin. Massive brain fade from the Venezuala driver.

At moment, Zuber looks massively quicker than Karun but seems to have forgotten how to overtake.....

Senna 3rd but really wants the win and is catching the front 2 hand over fist. Grosjean 4th, Villa 5th, having a good morning, Parente 6th Tung 7th and Conway 8th.

Asmer was in 8th but got done by 3 cars in one lap somehow and falling further back....

I'm absolutely positive the new aero is restricting the racing, Bruno Michel and co need to get this sorted in time for next year so we can get back to the pure racing once again.

Jeez, move of the race: D'Ambrosio passes Petrov (for 10th I think) around the outside in the Mercedes corner or whatever it's called..... WOW!!!

Karun wins, top drive and very timely I feel.

Senna ran out of laps to bothr the top 2.

D'Ambrosio passes Petrov (for 10th I think) around the outside in the Mercedes corner or whatever it's called..... WOW!!!If that's the move I'm think of, it struck me how controlled it looked and yet it didn't seem an easy place to pass.

Strange to see Senna struggling on the wet tires after such a good run in the wet conditions in the last event. What a fun race to watch.... some very impressive drives on slick tires towards the end of the event.

Well incident strewn 2nd race so far.

Di Grassi led early on but started going backwards, on lap 2. Chandhok and Zuber went past relatively easily.

Di Grassi's car was suffering a engine fuel pressure problem since race 2 Silverstone, which got progressively worse during the Hockenheim weekend and was finally traced AFTER race 2 Hockenheim. GP2 is sometimes quite frustrating for the teams. This car has many little problems, which annoy the
teams as they are very difficult to trace.

I'm absolutely positive the new aero is restricting the racing, Bruno Michel and co need to get this sorted in time for next year so we can get back to the pure racing once again.[/QUOTE]

To sort that out one would have to change the aerodynamics radically, for starters you would need a modified monocoque, a new nose and front wing and a less efficient underfloor. It will not happen.

wtf, why a less efficient underfloor? That's one of the best things for keeping wheel to wheel racing; good downforce, but immune to the effects of following another car closely.

I agree that they're more sensative than last year, and that it is a bad thing, but don't start trying to change the wrong things!

To sort that out one would have to change the aerodynamics radically, for starters you would need a modified monocoque, a new nose and front wing and a less efficient underfloor. It will not happen.

Is that because the teams don't think it's necessary based on what they have currently or more likely it wouldn't happen due to cost and aggro of introducing another set of changes so soon?

You could argue that the cut and thrust is still way better than in F1 (not difficult) but it cannot be disputed that this years car has effectively halved the amount of overtaking that we saw each season 05-07.

italiaracing report that Ben Hanley will test the 2009 GP2 Package with an increasement of Horpower (+30), a Third Damper as well as a new aero package

italiaracing report that Ben Hanley will test the 2009 GP2 Package with an increasement of Horpower (+30), a Third Damper as well as a new aero package

2009 GP2 modifications involve a third damper at the rear (gearbox attachment points are already on this year's gearbox. This is a interesting modification and also it is relatively cheap.

30 HP more on the engine is not going to cause new problems, engine and gearbox will support this without problems.

These 2 changes are believed to be necessary by the GP2 managment to keep the car faster than the new a1GP car.

GP2 are generally following F1 trends, so they want to try out the car without bargeboards, chimneys, T-wings and airbox wings to see how much performance they loose, in order to stay in line with 2009 F1 rules. They will find out that they will loose 1.5% in performance and will probably ask Dallara to do some windtunnel testing to recover performance, which then will include mods to the underside of the chassis, the nose and the frontwing including endplates. This might cost too much and so they will probably stick to the current aerodynamics apart from the sidepods without T-wings, chimneys and airbox wings and with smaller bargeboards.

The teams will accept these updates without problems, as the teams really struggle with other issues. They struggle with electrical problems affecting gearbox and clutch operation.

wtf, why a less efficient underfloor? That's one of the best things for keeping wheel to wheel racing; good downforce, but immune to the effects of following another car closely.

I agree that they're more sensative than last year, and that it is a bad thing, but don't start trying to change the wrong things!

We are not wanting to change the wrong things, as our job is within a GP2 team and therefore we have to get the most out of what is given to us.

Aerodynamics are not easily understood and there is a trend to oversimplify things. Generally speaking a diffuser undertray is a cheap way of getting good aero efficiency (downforce/drag), but if you try to have this combined with a F1 style raised nose/monocoque with raised front wing endplates (to copy the F1 looks (F1 have the raised front wing endplates to kill aero efficiency to slow down the cars, introducing highly yaw, pitch and airflow sensitive aero front/rear downforce splits)), you end up with the same aero problems as in F1 (loss of front aero downforce following another car), which indeed happens with the 2008 GP2 car.
The only way to change this is by depending less on the underfloor, hence to make it less efficient, modify the shape of the front of the car, e.g. nose, frontwing, frontwing endplate, bargeboard and underside of monocoque. The car will become less efficient and slower.

Bradrive thankyou very much for these insights and for interpreting what META4 has reported.

Clearly you summarise that by taking the silly chimneys and pots off the aero package will probably help cars follow each other more closely again (as long as the cars still stay on the track with current underfloors) or the undefloor and diffusers will need changing as well!!

However if these changes make the cars a bit slower (hence the increase in bhp?) but also make the racing closer again that's a good thing right?

Bradrive thankyou very much for these insights and for interpreting what META4 has reported.

Clearly you summarise that by taking the silly chimneys and pots off the aero package will probably help cars follow each other more closely again (as long as the cars still stay on the track with current underfloors) or the undefloor and diffusers will need changing as well!!

However if these changes make the cars a bit slower (hence the increase in bhp?) but also make the racing closer again that's a good thing right?

The cost increase for updated GP2 2009 aerodynamics is not really in the modified parts, but in the research Dallara will have to do.

The parts to be modified will most probably include:
- new fr.wing endplates, closer to the ground relative to the 2008 ones
- new underfloor keel
- modifications to the current underfloor (add on parts)
- elimiation of chimneys (cooling will still be ok due to the cooling gills)
- elimination of sidepod T-wing
- elimination of engine cover wing
- elimination or smaller bargeboards

If done properly the car will result 1% slower on a std "Barcelona type" track but will be less pitch/yaw/crosswind sensitive and suffer less following closely another car.
The performance loss will be counterbalanced with the increase of engine power.