Donington Park 01st / 02nd November - BRSCC Finals Weekend

It has come to light today that the Finals Weekend at Donington Park which is due to take place in November, Has Been reduced to One Day Meeting.

This is Now 01st November Only. Single Day Meeting

Nothing Official has been issued , But it appears we who belong to the BRSCC Championships are have a single meet not a double header.

Just some to Name : LMA Saloons / Ford Fiestas / Ford XR Challenge / Ford Saloons / Mighty Minis / Super Mighty Minis / Alfa's / Formula Jedi / Sport 2000 Duratec / Sports 2000 Pinto. 10 Series.. Of which 5 are booked as a Double Header. So 15 Races / 10 Qualifying Sessions.. In One Day!!! Dream On.

Some of these are big grids and we get reduced to a one day meeting. This meeting was due to be in October but got moved to 1st Week in November due to the GT Series. It now appears that there is a night race on 01st Nov and we are being shafted to a One Day meeting.. With a few of these Series Title's Being Decided on that Weekend.

Either BRSCC need to do something and Replan the meet at another venue. Or Donington Park need to be held to there contract that BRSCC have with them.

Either BRSCC need to do something and Replan the meet at another venue. Or Donington Park need to be held to there contract that BRSCC have with them.



I drive in the Alfas and heartily agree. Have already had to make arrangements around a two day meet; but I understand there's even some doubt about whether a one day event can go ahead? We're at Snetterton next weekend and I for one would dearly like to know nowish if that is the last meeting of the year...

It is ridiculous. As MArkH22 states this was planned for October then rescheduled for November. In todays "credit crunch" it is hard enough to raise the funds, now all the plans made and time set aside seem pointless. There must be a contract in place with the circuit.

All of this because F1 is coming back to Donnington. And that will not happen in the end.

The circuits will not survive without club racing, so whay are we always treated so badly.

Hasn't the night race been cancelled according to the Britcar website?

As I understand it, this is not in connection with the F1.

And yes, the Britcar night race is already off. BRSCC and co-ordinators are, I think, trying to work out what to do about this.

From what I understand is that Donnington applied at the start of the year for 40 noisy days with the council (ie over blue book limit of 105db), but booked 42 as they did not believe that the new Super League races would take place, hence as it did they have no noisy days left, so cancel Britcar.

But as the BRSCC Championships all run within the 105db limit and are not classed as noisy days, then these should be able to continue as planned.

I am assuming that the real reason for only looking at one day is who fills the financial gap left by the cancelation of Britcar, BRSCC will and probably are saying its not thier problem, and Donnington are most probably sitting firm saying no cash, no race. !!

I also do not see how championships can change from a double header to a single race without the full agreement of all of the series drivers, as they would need to if they changed the venue, as if they changed venue the championship leaders would be able to protest and no race take place, and the season would be over from now.

If and a big if, Donnington takes place it must be over two days and all series planned races be concluded as per the regs

Our Deputy Co - Ordinator has just put this on Wealden Racing Forum

Sorry Boy's & Girls

It's Official

Donnington is only going to be run on Saturday 1st November

The 2008 Ford Saloon Car championship will now be decided over 14 rounds.

So I would think that this applies to All Series that are due to race at donington park that weekend.

How Silly would BRSCC look if no one turned up???

As I understand it, from Britcar rumblings, that they have had to go to the MSA for a mid-season amendment to their regulations as this is a reduction in the the number of rounds, and in their regs it says how many rounds are to count from the total. It could be argued that every BRSCC championship (which uses dropped scores) needs to do the same, as any championship declaration made without the full number of rounds could technically be invalid.

If the MSA turn down that request, then the EERC have to find another date to run another race to make up for the lost night race.

Rob.

Not all series would be able to run at night - the LMA Euro Saloons modified classes have to run lights at the front, but this is just something that shines a light, a pair of torches would be legal. Plainly not something to race in the dark with

This is a total farce for which Donington should be held accountable whatever the outcome

BTW - the date moved twice since we were first given it. First it was 11/12 Oct, then 25/26 Oct, and then 1/2 Nov. One of those moves was to accomodate a "pop" concert, presumably more lucrative than holding a race meeting. Maybe we should race around the Albert Hall then :-)

We have been told today not by our Co-Ordinator but the Deputy Co Ordinator that the Ford Saloons Final Race will only be 1 Race Now on the Saturday Only.

1 x Qualifying 15 Mins and 1 Race 20 Mins ..

Some People have already entered this race meeting thinking it was a 2 day meet and have been charged £340.00 which is nice.

BRSCC are saying that Donington Park are the ones that have told us we can only have a 1 day meet.

If the BRSCC have a contract for a 2 day meet there must be something written in the contract about cancellation of the meeting???

Is everyone going to accept the change or are they going to make a stand as there must be alot of drivers that are relying on a double header to dinish there season and needing the 2 day meet for the points.

I'm sure all of the detail on entry fees and the like will be resolved in due course. I'm not sure what kind of stand you can make here - there isn't a whole lot the BRSCC can do if Donington are not able to let them have the track for a two day meeting as planned. To run single rounds on a one day meeting is surely a much better option than nothing at all. The BRSCC seem the innocent party in all of this, so any 'stand' directed at them would, I think, be misguided, short-sighted, and foolhardy.

Having just glanced at another forum you contribute to MarkH22, I see there was a suggestion of moving the final double-header to another event. The difficulty of this is that it requires the approval of all registered competitors - if anyone doesn't approve it, it can't happen. Lopping one race from a double-header is probably a slightly more straightforward process within the confines of MSA regulations.

From the BRSCC website..

We can now confirm that our scheduled BRSCC Championship Finals event will now take place on Saturday 1st November 2008 only. The cancellation of Sunday’s activities is due to planning problems encountered by Donington and it is with their assistance that we were able to secure our now one day event.

Obviously many of our championships were due to run double headers at this event and to now try and fit all scheduled races into one day would prove impossible. We have been discussing this matter with the MSA, but as yet we have no definitive answer as to how races will now be scheduled. At this stage we are hopeful that a compromise may be reached which will see all championships which were due to run still take an active part in the revised event.

Ian , I appreciate your comments on this and you will probably see from the other forum i talk on there is alot of unrest about this subject.. Maybe you are a fellow racer, Marshall or Co Ordinator.. This is just another part that has made the season a farce this year. As stated by nyssa7 this date has been so messed around by Donington / BRSCC. There is now a very good chance that what would have been a Full Grid for alot will now be very badly supported.

I appreciate that BRSCC have been let down by Donington Park but that is not the competitors fault. The 2008 Title could got 3 ways and the drivers were expecting a double header. There were some drivers that used other double headers as there drop round knowing they had a Double Header at Donington Park. Now they are down to 1 Race to win the title. Its not a good way to end the season.

Another source has advised me this morning that £210 for a single header. That is a disgrace. As it stands at the moment we have pulled out of the Finals Weekend. We are 5 Points behind to Win the A Class title over 1 race is a large task, Over 2 we have more chances to win this.

I did suggest that the Fords Move, And I am sure that we could be a guest race with another series. Rod Birley I am sure would be more than happy to help. Its a shame our Championship Co Ordinator hasn't even made an email about this weekend change, put anything on his website about it.. And as he works at the BRSCC he certainly knows what is going on

Hello Mark, if i am honest I don't really understand your suprise at this kind of turn of events. This kind of thing has been going on deffinatly since i was racing with you and probably longer. Its very easy to solve though, you just load up the Escort and race it somewhere else! I remember you guys trying to make a stand like this over a double header at Cadwell we had been charged some extortionate amount of money for and all the Ford drivers (including me!) let you down. Fortunatly the race never happened because ONLY the Ford drivers agreed to pay. All the other championships stuck to their guns. You won't change your beloved Co-ordinator, or the attitude of the BRSCC.

Hi Kelvin I am not surprised at all mate.. This has been going on far too long now mate. This season has been better and that is only because Chris got involved. He is the only one who keeps us posted. I think the escort wont be out again this season, and maybe wont be out in a BRSCC championship next year. Its time for the Ford Boys to make there stand about this race and not turn up.

As stated by nyssa7 this date has been so messed around by Donington / BRSCC.

In my understanding, Donington changed the date twice after giving the first date to the BRSCC. The BRSCC might not be perfect, but they are at least an innocent party in this debacle

I've read on another forum that Donington still have two "noisy day" track days scheduled between now and end of the year. Do these really bring in more money than racedays? Certainly if this is the case, then I do lay some blame with the BRSCC not insisting their 2 day meeting is honoured and one of the track days cancelled to allow it

It says on the Donington Website November 2nd 9 am - 5pm.

It says on the Donington Website November 2nd 9 am - 5pm.


It probably also says there will be Grand Prix there in 2010 :rofl:

I've read on another forum that Donington still have two "noisy day" track days scheduled between now and end of the year. Do these really bring in more money than racedays? Certainly if this is the case, then I do lay some blame with the BRSCC not insisting their 2 day meeting is honoured and one of the track days cancelled to allow it

The two "noisy track days" are both weekday events. Donington Park can run two unlimited noise days Monday to Friday, every week. Noisy weekends have their own limits which are seperate to the weekday limit. That's where the problem lays.

According to this week's Autosport the Britcar race was cancelled due to lack of entries. The quote from a Donington spokesperson says that Britcar were "uncertain of being able to guarantee a grid of minimum numbers needed to make the Saturday night race financially viable"

Something tells me we aren't being told the whole story.

According to this week's Autosport the Britcar race was cancelled due to lack of entries. The quote from a Donington spokesperson says that Britcar were "uncertain of being able to guarantee a grid of minimum numbers needed to make the Saturday night race financially viable"

Something tells me we aren't being told the whole story.

Not surprised at this - it all set off my bs alarm ages ago. Anyone know the latest official word on what will happen on the day, how many championships will race etc?

If anyone has more spin than that of the goverment its Mr Tucker !

BUT, it still does not answer the question on why Donnington / BRSCC can not run both days ?, its either BS from one or both, or BRSCC will not cover the missing money left by Britcar cancellation.

Last word from BRSCC is that a timetable will be published at the end of the week, but no news on if all championships will race, there are I believe thoughts around some races taking place in the dark, I think the Minis were up for this !!!

Aim was for all series to get 10 mins quallifiying and a 20 min race.

One thing for sure is its not the fault of the drivers or teams, who will still turn up, race and have a laugh about it after (we hope)

I've read on another forum that Donington still have two "noisy day" track days scheduled between now and end of the year. Do these really bring in more money than racedays?

A race day - the BRSCC (or whoever) pays Donington Park £20,000 (or thereabouts) for the National Circuit. The circuit keeps the gate money.

If they run 10 races with an average of 20 competitors in each, 200 competitors that need to pay £100 to cover the track fee, about £20 each for insurance, plus officials expenses, recovery vehicles, etc... which leads to your entry fee of £240

Now take a 98db track day at Donington on the National Circuit. Up to 300 cars split up into 3 sessions per hour, each paying £110.00. Safety cover (marshals/recovery vehicles) isn't as great as a race meeting, fewer officials to pay, etc...

Those days are usually sold out.

As far as the circuit is concerned, it makes more money out of a trackday than it does a race day because it has to do less for the circuit hire fee than it does for a race meeting. If it organises the trackday itself, it pockets the lot (after expenses).

Strangely enough, Donington's calendar has a 98db trackday planned for Sunday November 2nd.....

The reasons for the cancellation of the 2nd seem to keep changing, one minute the circuit is saying that it's an issue with the local council, then they back pedal and blame Mr Tucker.

I would think that James' comment in Autosport was probably said while biting his lip to the point of drawing blood!

A race day - the BRSCC (or whoever) pays Donington Park £20,000 (or thereabouts) for the National Circuit. The circuit keeps the gate money.

If they run 10 races with an average of 20 competitors in each, 200 competitors that need to pay £100 to cover the track fee, about £20 each for insurance, plus officials expenses, recovery vehicles, etc... which leads to your entry fee of £240

Now take a 98db track day at Donington on the National Circuit. Up to 300 cars split up into 3 sessions per hour, each paying £110.00. Safety cover (marshals/recovery vehicles) isn't as great as a race meeting, fewer officials to pay, etc...


sorry thats a long way out.. there is a lot more income from a race meeting over a trackday so the arguement that this is because dony can make more money from t/days is a non starter.

i ran a t/day at dony just over a week ago and am also back on sunday 26/10. i also purchase race track time as well so some facts..

you do NOT have upto 300 cars split up into 3 sessions on a trackday... the circuit limit is 30 and income from their own trackdays would be approx £10,000 + VAT.. i'm charging £115 per car for a whole session, max 30 cars on next sunday there...

racing brings between £40,000 - £50,000 a day from the sale of track time.

gate money on most national meets is minimal.

if trackdays were anywhere near as profitable for a circuit as race meets you'd see many more summer trackdays on major circuits - when there are just a handful and we have to wait until winter to get weekend dates.

just to re-iterate this cannot be due to making more money from t/days than racing.

The 3 sessions was PER HOUR, not per day. That's 90 cars on track per hour total.

The last trackday I did, to shakedown one of my cars, had 300 places and was on the Silverstone GP circuit. There was a max of 50 cars on track at any time. With some people only out for 10-15 minutes at a time, it was a constant flow, everyone getting the time they wanted.

Racing brings in £40-50K (providing the grids are full) for the organising club, not the circuit. Circuits don't organise race meetings in general. Those that do see the benefits (Castle Combe), where the rest haven't woken up yet.

Hi Kelvin I am not surprised at all mate.. This has been going on far too long now mate. This season has been better and that is only because Chris got involved. He is the only one who keeps us posted. I think the escort wont be out again this season, and maybe wont be out in a BRSCC championship next year. Its time for the Ford Boys to make there stand about this race and not turn up.

Come and join in the fun in the CSCC "Tin Tops" series. A good club that puts competitors first. Its not perfect but its the best club I have raced with by far. "Tin Tops" are 40 min mini enduros with a compulsory pit stop for one or two drivers. The entry fees are very competitive and with a 30 min qualy session and a 40 min race its good value and good fun.

R59 - Sorry you need to read my response properly. I have run a few hundred track days and organise a race series so what I've posted above is fact.

You do NOT have 300 cars on a track day. At most one of Donington's own days will have 3 groups of 30 cars over the whole day bringing in £10k'ish + VAT not 300 x £110 as you state.. you're £20,000 out... I will run over 80 track days this year including Silverstone yesterday and Donington twice this month i can guarantee you you're way off the mark on income to circuits from track days.

You're also way out on the income to the circuit from a race. I organise a race series myself and have purchased time from both Dony and Britcar and for the sake of it Combe as you have mentioned them.

Your post above was insinuating that the meeting had been cancelled as Donington will make more money out of running a track day - this is tosh..

Don't really want an argument on this but it's not fair that people will read your posts and think the meeting has been canceled because Donington have decided they can make more money from running a track day, that's totally unfair to Donington and to be honest to the track day market. I don't really want to go into the intimate finances of running a t/day over race meet but it's quite clear from what I posted above that no circuit would consider dumping a race meet to run a t/day - if you don't believe me PM a number and I'm happy to spend 10 mins educating you.