V8 Superstars Opinions

What does everyone think of the opinions put down by the panel members about whether new manufacturers should be allowed in, and what about Tony C's comments that he would only let in Mitsubishi and Toyota. Should others like Nissan, BMW or Renault be allowed in if they wanted

My view is yes. The more manufactures the better. It may not create better racing only add a few new variables and reopen the parity debate.

Look, at the end of the day the series belongs to the fans and Ford and Holden are the heartbeat of Australia at the end of the day. At the end of they day all we want is good racing.

At the end of the day,
Buck.

It is good to see that 10 gets pANALIST's that agree with Cochrane's every word and they pay Skaife to play the idoit.... Oh sorry that's not an act he's like that all the time isnt he. And I give 10 points to Brad Jones hair dresser....................

Actually I was thinking Brad Jones hair looked a lot "Yeah yeah" if you catch my drift...

It was interesting that TC ruled out everyone except Mitsubishi and Toyota from joining. I can see his point that the series is doing so well with just Ford and Holden. For sure, the racing is fairly boring and there is only so much that can be done racing only two types of vehicles, but with the attendances the series must please people for some reason. It is really bizarre that as the lack of overtaking has got worse, crowds have increased! Another thing to think about is this: can you imagine being a Toyota or Mitsubishi fan and cheering on your manufacturer amongst a mob of Holden and Ford hoons trackside?
If BMW, Renault, Audi, MG, Honda, VW, Subaru, Alfa Romeo, Saab, Volvo, Rover, Peugeot, Citroen, Mercedes, Nissan, etc want to race in Australia, we should push TOCA to introduce the new ETC regulations to Australia in 2003.

I see Tony's point here. He is saying that it should only be open to Australian manufacturers as it is an Australian championship. So if Nissan, et al, want to join in then they probably could if they start producing cars in Australia.

its difficult ..sure more manufacturers would be great ..i have no problem with letting them in but you dont want to go and hurt the series...as everyone has heard Tony, Skaife and all the rest dont want them coming in and running away with the series ..I agree with this ...but mark larkham mentioned the best point...Parity..it has taken so long to get it ..how long will it take to get 3 or 4 cars very even on performance ???

touchy subject but i say lets try it and see what happens ..if it doesnt work then fine go back to Ford V Holden.

Originally posted by elephino
I see Tony's point here. He is saying that it should only be open to Australian manufacturers as it is an Australian championship. So if Nissan, et al, want to join in then they probably could if they start producing cars in Australia.

Come on this is such BS! Sorry Elephino but this is a silhouette series. Bodies by Ford and Holden, under bodies by the race teams and engine from the 'States!

Ah touche Mr Moffat, but does the average beer swigging V8 fan, or Tony for that matter, know that?

I think they probably do Crash,

For the most part, race fans are very well informed as they are petrol heads first and foremost, regardless of sex, age, nationality or politics. They don't just have a casual interest. Just look around here.

When I void - it's blue coloured. I'm a Ford fan. But I am not stupid!

Now there's a come on if ever one was posted.

Mr Moffat, I'm not saying it isn't a silhouette series, though it isn't but only just (only because the chassis are different, while most of the running gear is the same).

What I am saying, is that to be allowed in the series, you should be building road cars in Australia. I don't care if it is the same car racing that is built here but they might as well be putting some extra money into the economy.

All that Tony's worried about is the extra return on the investment. Which he would believe won't be worth the hassle of making it a three or four car series.

Extra money into the economy. They are multinationals the money goes OS. Only it doen't. They ran up debts so they pulled out of local manufacturing.

I may be contradicting my earlier opinions posted at this forum, but what's all the fuss about the V8 Supercars? If all these "foreign" manufacturers want to race, why not just establish the ETCC rules in Australia? I'm sure just 2 or 3 dedicated manufacturers could bring the ETCC rules to replace the aging ST ones for example? Surely, that is a simpler avenue?

The only reason I could think of why "foreign" manufacturers would want to race in the V8 Supercars, is that they want everyone to see their brand beating Holden/Ford.

Why does everyone want to have the pommy/ETCC rules in Oz? Wasn't Super Touring going gain massive support from all manufacturers in Oz?

The sponsors and manufacturers mostly don't want to be involved in racing small cars, that don't appeal to the public. TOCA isn't interested in introducing any of these "new generation" of classes- they are fully focused on Future Tourers. Period. They introduced the new BTCC rules last year, and there were absolutely no takers. Zippo, ziltch. It is all good to say that these classes would cure all of our ills, but the people with the money, and the spectators simply wont support it.

Ford V Holden, that's what it's about ... it's what the series has been built on and it's how it should stay, IMO.

if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Originally posted by AMoffat
I'm a Ford fan. But I am not stupid![/I] It's tempting, but I'll let it go ;)

Wrex,

Admirable showing of restraint my friend.

Elephino,

Sorry for the display of passion. I just don't like Tony and Channel 10 telling us all what is good for us!

Cochrane is only interested in what will line his own pockets. These guys would dump this sport tomorrow if there was no money in it. And on e other thing do Mitsubishi or Toyota build a pushrod V8?

Originally posted by AMoffat
Wrex,

. I just don't like Tony and Channel 10 telling us all what is good for us!

Funny That's what they have been doing since the start of SUPERTAXI's

Look I'am not a fan of HOLDEN (even though I work for them) or FORD (if I had to choose it would be FORD all the way ) but I have no choice but to watch these Taxi's run around yes its great that its more a team catergory but I truley belive that Toyota will be well recived as they have either been 1 or 2 in sales since I can remember so there are alot of Toyota drives out there as Mis'o as well so instead of ten and avesco piching Holden v Ford they can actual pich a HEATLAND type racing as the world in OZ doesn't just have HOLDEN & FORD in it then it would be a true AUSTRALIAN C/Ship

As for BMW (pls I wish :D :D :D ) & Merc and so on I don't think that would be such a great idea as they would kick the locals A$$E$$
and I sure that would sit well with the beer drink SARAH MARIE voting
public which the great Jim Richards summed up so well;)

don't you think its funny Skafie didn't what a new make coming in with a bag full of money a taking over . must be hard driving for HRT

Crashtest,

you are missing the point. people want the new ETC regs because we like variety. In an ideal worls we would have both categories in Australia operating in a healthy state. People could still get their v8 fix, and then enjoy manufacturer variety the following weekend.

Australia can afford 2L under the new ETC rules. It has to be remembered that at the end of 1996 2L was THE category. V8s were dying. V8s didn't pick up until 1999. even with TC in charge, things were still pretty ordinary until 1999. even now there is NO overtaking.

Volvo, Audi, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo and VW want to be involved in motor racing in Australia. they just weren't able to justify a budget for Super Touring. Give the ETC a few years and then we can introduce the cars to Australia.

Agreed totally. Volvo, BMW, Audi, Hyundai and Ford (they backed the Ross Palmer Ford in 95) all pulled out because the interest wasn't there. That i reckon was because people like CAMS didn't support it as well as V8's because they had a share in the category. By the time they sold it, ST were already beginning to go down. I think if the ETC rules were introduced and put in with a good package of other classes, it could take off.

Racer69 wrote:

>Agreed totally. Volvo, BMW, Audi, Hyundai and Ford (they backed the >Ross Palmer Ford in 95) all pulled out because the interest wasn't >there.
>
There's a bit of the "chicken and egg" debate in that statement! Don't you need money to create lots of PR/coverage? Yes, a race series can theoretically thrive without manufacturer support, but it sure would be a lot tougher. If a manufacturer is racing in the series, but does not spend a lot to promote, not many people may hear about it?

The NATCC ran into the same problem. Many manufacturers were interested, but all of them wanted to see it run for a few more seasons before committing a Works team. Result? The series floundered?

What do you think?

People want variety? Have a gander at GTP. And it is starting to reap in the manufacturers money. Why? It costs them absolutely nothing to provide an old test mule, or a demonstrator, people are ready and willing to run the cars, the are cheap to run, and it forms (albeit with the parity police in action) a form of comparison between the different makes. Plus, with Procar, they are a publicity making machine only second to the V8s, and they either get a run on their package, or have their own well attended race meetings. Wakefield was huge for them, and with regards to the upcoming QR meeting, I have never seen so many on going promotions. Then they have the Sandown 500, which will be massive.

TOCA relied too heavily on the manufacturers to do the promotional work for them. They thought if there was a few manufacturers there the fans would just turn up. If TOCA had promoted more & given incentive for them to come in, more would have, and the manufacturers would be more interested if they kept them in touch with the rules, rather than chop and change. TOCA, which called itself the manufacturers championship, probably didn't even consult the manufacturer when it decided to concentrate on Future/TOCA Tourers.

A few years ago the only class A cars on the grid were 5 Porsches, but they stuck at it and promoted their product to the right people and made people want to spend the money to buy the expensive cars and compete.

I think TOCA tried their very hardest...I'm sure they wouldn't have sat there twidling their thumbs, but the end of Super Touring world wide hit them hard.

Consult the manufacturers re: Future Tourers?
Remember these things are basically the second coming of Auscars...and they came into life still while Audi and Volvo were involved with the class.

When the Future Tourers came into being in 99 when Volvo and Audi were still racing they weren't meant to replace Super Tourers, they were meant to be lower than ST and be a stepping stone to V8 Supercars. Back in 99 there was no consideration to other manufacturers, it was only meant to be Ford vs Holden.

If the new ETC regulations aren't introduced, how are Australian Touring car drivers meant to get drives in the ETC or BTCC.

Originally posted by racer69
When the Future Tourers came into being in 99 when Volvo and Audi were still racing they weren't meant to replace Super Tourers, they were meant to be lower than ST and be a stepping stone to V8 Supercars. Back in 99 there was no consideration to other manufacturers, it was only meant to be Ford vs Holden.

If the new ETC regulations aren't introduced, how are Australian Touring car drivers meant to get drives in the ETC or BTCC.

I like future tourers and they even have a V8 magna

Im still adamant that the Australian teams wouldn't be interested in running ETC rules...and besides, how many Australians want to run in the ETC or BTCC anyways??

Allan Grice and the Mobil HDT raced in the ETC in 86 and were planning assaults on the 87 WTC until budget problems, and Moffat and Harvey raced in the WTC and won the first round at Monza in a Commodore, and Grice, Brock, Parsons and Bob Holden also competed at Spa that year, and Grice raced in the ETC for Nissan in 88, and Johnson and Bowe flogged the Euros at Silverstone later that year. And Steven Richards gave up a year of V8s to test for Nissan in the BTCC, and both Ingall and Murphy tried to get drives in the 99 BTCC, Murphy even tested the Laguna, and Morris had signed a deal to be Matt Neals teamate in the BTCC in 99. And worldwide the ETC is more important than a little domestic series on the other side of the world.

That is all true, but have a look at the BTCC now...it's only a shaddow of its former self. I'd imagine that young Aussies would be interested in the DTM, but that is something all together different..

Crash Test why do you not like the new ETC rules, this could be the best thinto happen to aussie motorsport since super tourers being introduced in 94. I believe the cars can be manufactered in Aus with low costs , you couldn't do that with a ST and look how good that was, so this hould be awesome. Also Cochrane, this is really gonna get him angry, he'll be saying "I'm going to sew them, how dare they introduce a new category in this country", I'm referring to what he sadi when the Bathurst/Future Tourers thing was announced, he said that he would check with his lawyers whether another V8 Category would be allowed, really Australian Motorsport doesn't need him.

spot on about ETC rules and Tony C. The Future Tourers to me seem a bit like the BTC Tourers, with control parts, only they are V8 RWD instead of 4 cylinder FWD. I think the Super 2000 regs will be better than ST because there is a pan european series, so manufacturers don't have to worry about whether certain rules will continue in certain countries each year.

TOCa Tourers would be an ideal category to replace to outdone v8 supercars , because they are V8's but accomadate so many different vehicles. They don't touch the current Super Touring rules. Racer 69 has a good understanding of motorsport(give us an email and we can talk some more about tafe times to super touring)

Have to say the only thing better than the Super Touring rules are the Super 2000 regulations.

To be honest, I really don't care too much either way about the ETC rules, but being a realist, the class wouldn't have a place in Australian Motorsport. We already have Procar, which today, is miles ahead of TOCA.

TOCA is commited to Future Touers, because they now know that small cars don't appeal to the greater public.

In a perfect world, everyone would love small cars, all of the manufacturers would get involved, and they would have 80 car grids. Sadly, here today, none of that would happen.

Now that should keep the discussion going ;)