Trackside Marshals opinion of Rescue Crew?

I'm not sure about the wisdom of asking but......

I'm interested to hear opinions of Rescue Crew from anyone working trackside. As BARC crew we have had an amount of negative feedback, not specifically aimed at us but generally at crews. BARC HQ Rescue have been trying to involve trackside marshals more and more, hence the days that DarrellB mentioned in the 'grading' thread.

What should we be doing, or what shouldn't we be doing?

Digs a hole and awaits the incoming fire!

Martin

Originally posted by Teletubby
I'm not sure about the wisdom of asking but......

Digs a hole and awaits the incoming fire!

Martin

No need to worry - the first fire is friendly!

In my whole year's experience of marshalling :) I've come to respect the professionalism of the rescue crews. Now can I have a lie down in the van?:laugh:

Seriously, though....

At Oulton, new marshals on their first day at the circuit are given a guided tour, which involves a walk round the circuit looking at every post & a quick look at the rescue unit, medical centre & race control,etc. It's well worth doing; all part of the team-building process.

I'm always impressed with the work done, on the few occasions I've experienced it first hand, the only constructive critiscism I'd make is sometimes there could be more work done on establishing communications with those already attending the incident. However I do accept that usualy when you guys are called its all a little pressurised :)

You people ( watch out for the scud )!!
I have been marshalling three years now,and have the pleasure or disspleasure, which ever way you look at it,of working with rescue crews during major incidents.I understand that people deal with pressure in different ways,some may stop and think,some may jump in and do the correct thing,and some jump in with both feet and confuse the issue.One such incident cropped up at Brands in 99,F renault ,140 mph barrel roll etc, i was the second to arrive followed by the powder etc, driver was ok,but i told him not to move etc,silly sod kept nodding like a dog!Then the FD arrived plus the suits, there were too many people around.My only problem with the RC was one member started to tell the driver ,who, allready in shock,how high he had gone ! now to me common, would have said keep reasuring,keep talking to him, but not about the incident please.
Another incident in the porsche cup last season at Brands,going up to druids, car spins , car collects another ,car hits wall, car gets hit again and comes to rest on armco ten yards from us.The driver was away with the fairies,the other driver out looking at the damage to his car.Again FD car arrives suits arrive, you guys arrive,we are watching the back end due to fluid dripping from the engine,didnt know if petrol or water,on to a broken pipe, you guys dealt with the driver in your usual way,but what got me was the fact the car could have gone up in a flash. My point here, is to limit the amount of personell around the car, to only the ones who need be there.The suits only in my opinion,need to be in the back ground doing what they do, not getting involved with the incident at the sharp end so to speak.All in all though,i`m glad on race day to be a part of a team that act with such skill and pride and do a job so well.I think we all need a congratulatory pat on the back.Well done guys.( we still take the rise out of you though)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick,

We are obviously missing out on part of the fun then! At BARC meetings we never get the suits getting close enough to see what's going on, let alone get toasted! :0)Still we can live in hope! I've never quite seen the need for all those people but at the time you just do what you do, when your'e clearing up it is astonishing how many 'non-essential' people seem to have arrived. Why? Is it just the same as people who rubberneck on motorways?

Martin

PS. You may take the rise out of us but who's getting wet? :0)

Hmmm, nasty comment about getting wet there :rotate:

In fact it is the job of the Incident Officer on that post to make sure the RU have adequate fire cover, yet room to move about and get on with their job. I'm afraid at any major incident there will be those who run down the track to 'view' and treat the incident as a free for all. Once again it is the job of the Incident Officer to clear those non essential people away from the scene, failing that give them a broom and put them to work!

My first reply was truncated - you can't keep a good curry waiting! Carrying on from where I left off:

You seem to be concerned that there is some sort of an 'us & them' situation between the marshals out on the track & the rescue units. That's certainly not the case at Oulton; much, indeed most, of the pre-meeting, er, how can I put this, badinage, takes place around the rescue unit vans. Some of the members of the rescue crew occasionally do a day's marshalling on the bank with us mere mortals.

Good point in your later post about 'non-essentials'. As far as I am concerned, if there's nothing more I can do once the rescue unit has arrived, I'll go & do something else......yes, Stephen, that 'something else' will probably be sweeping the track!:angel:

To be honest Dave, i have never come across a them and us situation.At Snet last year for the night race, several marshals were talking to the r/c,we all got on very well.I suppose due to the nature of your work,marshals and the rescue crews only ever get to meet during the day at Breakfast,lunch,incidents and bar.We all cant really stop and have a chat during an incident,i think leaning on your broom handle with fag in mouth may be fround upon !So the chance to get to know each other is limited.It was mentioned once at s/stone that the flags look down at people,again i have had no problems with them at all.
Cheers.
Rick.
PS hope your van leaks!!!

It can sometimes seem like there is a them and us situation which stems from the fact that at most circuits the rescue units are located some distance from the marshals posts and therefore do not get much chance to mingle. This problem can then lead to situations at incidents where it can seem like the unit crew is taking over from the guys and girls on the bank.

The best run incidents involve all the team carrying out their relevant duties under the control of the IO on the post and the IC on the unit and this emphasises the need for good communication between all parties.

As has been said previously it is all the unnecessary people which hover around an incident feeling self important and in need of being involved which could be done without.

All I can saw about the rescue crews is:-

The three times I have marshalled an event, the Rescue Crew always won the raffle!

Originally posted by rick vaux
PS hope your van leaks!!!

The only problem when its raining is that we have to turn on the wipers to see all the poor unfortunate marshal outside. The other problem is when its really cold ....then we have to turn the heater up. :D

Of course most people forget that all the rescue crews started out on the bank at one time or another and many still do the odd day outside if it cannot be helped ;)

Originally posted by DarrellB


The only problem when its raining is that we have to turn on the wipers to see all the poor unfortunate marshal outside.

.....not forgetting the coffee stains down the front of your pristine overalls when you're racing to get to an incident before we've sorted it!:p

Ok 2-1 to you.!

Can't say too much here as my boyfriend is on the rescue crew and when I'm cold and wet on the banks he usually waves to me from the warmth of the unit (grrrrrrr).

At Mondello the RU and the marshals mix all the time, because they were all once marshals on the banks and they know the marshals well, but there is still a bit of an "us and them" feeling on the banks because they are the elite bunch who do all that extra training, get all the action and never get wet or cold.

On quieter days at Mondello they tend to take over even the more mundane marshalling tasks out of sheer boredom, and I for one have never had too much of a problem with this - but I know that some marshals on the banks feel that the RU just show up unnecessarily to grab all the action. Of course they're brilliant at what they do, and when they're needed then no-one else will do, but at Mondello they tend to scramble to every little incident.

If I have a gripe with the RU it's that they keep poaching all the best marshals and now that they've doubled the RU requirements for most Mondello meetings, none of these guys ever get the time to go back on the banks. They're the best and most experienced marshals we have, with a lot of knowledge to impart. Novice marshals could learn a lot from these guys, if only they got the chance.

Well, I've just ploughed my way through the whole thread and there's one thing that sticks out like a sore (orange?) thumb. There is a friendly rivalry between marshals and rescue unit guys, but at the end of the day we are all just that, marshals!

Ok, so the van might be nice and warm, and possibly dry (where did I leave that screwdriver?) but when push comes to shove I have always found the rescue guys will join in and have a laugh. Mind you, if they win the raffle at Brands they do come in for serious stick!!!

I was present at the unfortunate incident at Brands last year trying to save a marshals life who died.
I stepped in when this marshal collapsed as everyone thought he had fainted and due to my background training being a medic in the forces for 8 years and still involved today with St Johns Ambulance I realised he was having a heart attack.I had no equipment with me but due to the proffesional swift response of the Brands rescue unit They got all the equuipment out of the wagon I needed and assisted me untill an ambulance from the circuit med centre arrived and took over.
Again at the Octagon training day at Brands the other day for the midweek marshals one of the Kent firemen who were doing the fire training got petrol in his eye. Agian a swift response from one of the rescue unit lads there with the wagon gave me fluid to wash his eye out.
So to sum up The Brands rescue unit have a good relationship with our marshals but I have come across a couple of units who just dont listen to anyone and just get in the way of marshals.
Richard Sneader...

Richard,

I hope it's not one of the BARC HQ units you've had a problem with, if so then PM me. Normally we just want to get them job done and disappear back to our post so we can have more coffee and donuts!

The reason for me starting the thread was that at a couple of incidents in 2000 we had a distinct impression that we were not at all popular! We thought that perhaps we had missed something but then surmised that 'a' crew somewhere had previously upset the Marshals

To make you feel better, two of our 3 units do in fact leak ;0( But the heaters do work (eventually!!!))

Darrell, of course, wouldn't notice as he's usually asleep!

cheers

Martin

Martin

:mad: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Darrell

I have heard that you can only be a member of the BRSCC SE Rescue Unit if you meet the following criteria ....

Can eat 3 Brands Dog Burgers in one sitting

Can fart 'The Chain' by Fleetwood Mac

And have no sense of smell.

Still that's what Andy Lingham told me :D:D:D

Pleased to see that all the responses so far have been favourable as we try our best to fit in, though maybe you haven't met Martin in the flesh yet :bag: a frightening thought :p

Darrell, however, is beating them off with a stick!!!!

NOT!

At the training day at Cadwell in January all Incident groups where shown some of the equipment carried and given a talk from the crew chief and 2 other crew members about the role of the marshal when the unit turns up.
I think this went along way to remove them and us opinions.

Hi Pete and welcome to 10-10ths.

I have to agree that things like that are the best way of promoting integration, at a slightly less stressfull time than when we usually meet. I've no doubt that my understanding and interaction with the rescue crews at Coombe will be significantly enhanced by the fact I've just started working in the same office as one of the rescue crew cheifs. Small world isn't it :)

At Thruxton we have run a couple of events over the last 12 months where we invite any Marshals who want to to come along to a 'have a go at this' day for exactly those reasons stated.

The day starts with a few scenarios where everyone is split up into teams and has to act as a rescue crew to deal with a range of injuries. The end of the day, after a safety briefing, is when we let everyone who wants to have a go at destroying cars.

The feedback we've had has led us to run 2 days on the 2nd and 3rd of March. Most peoples view is that we're welcome to it as a duty!

The other interesting comment, made by a number of people, is that they can now appreciate how easily a 45 minute race stoppage can occur! Now, just to get race control to communicate to everybody when it actually happens......... oh well I think I'll probably invent perpetual motion first!!!! ;0)

Communicate...now that's an interesting theory! It would be helpful if all marshals posts had telephones that work. If so, race control could use the land lines to 'spread the word' as it were. It's not wise to use radios as we all know, due to the large numbers of spectators (and marshals) who carry scanners.

Personally, I think the rescue guys do a great job and form an integral part of the whole marshalling team.

Peter, a warm welcome to the forum, glad to see you made it to ten-tenths.

Stephen.

hmm, what's my opinion of rescue units?
usually
1 - fine bunch of lads, with, admittedly some bowel troubles
2 - always welcome when things go pear shaped.
3 - owners of a fine stash of porn

occasionally - please don't take offence, cos the question was asked - usually occurs with a unit that you don't work with very often (and therein lies the problem methinks)

1 - bunch of stand offish look down nosies types
either because
a) you're a course marshal
b) you're not a member of their club/home circuit.

but they'll still be a damn fine rescue crew, if a little uncommunicative. Which can lead to things being done in a less than optimal manner.

Solution - hmm - don't talk down/ignore people, we're all volunteers, remember.

No offence taken, if I didn't want to hear it I wouldn't have asked! ;0)

I'd love to hear if any of those you have a problem with are BARC crews, not that I don't care about any of the others but I can't do much about them!

Never had a problem with BARC units, I've had problems with other units. These problems being;

1. Charging in on arrival without finding out what and how the incident occurred.
2 Pushing out the marshals on the scene.
3. Seeing the incident happen and reporting it and attending when not required.

Basically lack of ommunication skills of the crews involved.

Pete

These do seem to be the most common gripes with the rescue crew and to be perfectly honest this is generally very bad practice as not only does it really :censored: off the marshals dealing with an incident but the crew should find out how the incident occured to assertain any possible injuries the driver might have. As for attending when not required this can either be good or bad depending on the situation and position, if for instance the marshals on the bank are dealing with an incident effectively then there is no reason to become involved unless requested to do so but if an incident occurs where the crew may be the nearest then as long as race control is informed and aware and happy for them to do so then I see no problem with the crew dealing.

Originally posted by Teletubby
At Thruxton we have run a couple of events over the last 12 months where we invite any Marshals who want to to come along to a 'have a go at this' day for exactly those reasons stated.

I was one of those present last Feburary, and I recomend it to anyone if you get the chance, it was very worth while.

From finding out what every bit of kit carried on the unit is and does, to going through several senarios, including putting the CMO on a backboard (whilst he was in a car) then carrying CMO (still on backboard) out of the rear door, and finally finding out how to use the 10ton kit on an old volvo 340 (removal of doors, roof & pedals etc).

So if you get a chance, go along (even if it is to tie the CMO up :) )

Scott Ball.

And there was me thinking you were going to use the 10 Tonnes to crush the CMO?

Me, never....

But you should have seen the mess that we left the volvo in - windscreen, roof, door's and pedals everywhere!

I'm not sure about the wisdom of asking but......

I'm interested to hear opinions of Rescue Crew from anyone working trackside. As BARC crew we have had an amount of negative feedback, not specifically aimed at us but generally at crews. BARC HQ Rescue have been trying to involve trackside marshals more and more, hence the days that DarrellB mentioned in the 'grading' thread.

What should we be doing, or what shouldn't we be doing?

Digs a hole and awaits the incoming fire!

Martin

So then, a few years later............

Are your thoughts still the same or have things improved?

:double:

Just seen this post, and in all honesty I just think that rescue are a bunch of jumped up................ heh heh

The times that I have dealt with rescue has been good. Some trackside guys work against them at times but work with them and let them take charge.

Even if they don't always offer us doughnuts.

i think the barc hq units are great.

at least they get to have the heating on in their units.

I think that the Rescue crews (who i have worked with) are very good. They certainly do not have a them and us scenario and are always in communication at incidents.

My only problem with them is that they eat all my cake!!

I think they are Les Chiens Testes.
Lost count of the number of times they've got me as the Clerk out of the brown stuff.
Keep up the good work kids.

I've never had a problem with a member of the rescue crew, and I don't envisage myself having one. Ultimately they're the ones who are responsible for fast and efficient action in the event of an accident, so perhaps that's why some see them as being abrupt, but at the end of the day we're all there to ensure the smooth and safe running of an event. No marshals = no race, and no rescue = no race.

It's still nigh-on impossible to get a place on a unit though!
Never had problems with the regular crews that I come across at Oulton & Anglesey.
Having worked on the bank with most of them at some point, they're still marshals........just with better accommodation!

My only problem with them is that they eat all my cake!!

:drool: Cake !!

So then, a few years later............

Are your thoughts still the same or have things improved?

any of the original posters care to reply? :)

Blimey Mark, what were you looking for to find this thread?

From my point of view things seem much better than they were. We no longer encounter the 'us and them' feeling that there seemed to be back then.

In fact, if anything we get loads of good natured abuse!

The only thing is that every single person asks me about doughnuts! It was a joke people, I don't eat doughnuts! ;)

I don't eat doughnuts! ;)

I've got to ask, just exactly what do you do with them?

So not getting any this year. Well actually I think the response time does icrease to my post if I have cake so actually will kepp a spare slice or two.

In fact, if anything we get loads of good natured abuse!

I must work on my abuse technique. Obviously doing something wrong if you think it is good natured! :rofl:

I've seen the effect of BARC HQ & Midland Rescue training with bank marshals on a regular basis. It delivers huge benefit in terms of teamwork at actual incidents. Working on a unit isn't something that's really appealed to me yet, but that's not to say that having a good understanding of what they do and what you can do to help and protect them shouldn't be a part of every bank marshals armoury.

I've got to ask, just exactly what do you do with them?

We are simply offering a 'rehoming' service. :)

Well when this thread was started i wasn't even a marshal, NOW.....

I think most of the BARC rescue crew know Dee and I.
I have always thought you lot work impecably (spelling, can't be bothered to go check it.) You each have your different ways of going about things to get to the same ends.

Last year after one of the larger incidents you came to our rescue, We were asked if one of the rescue crew was shouting at anyone. Someone had a raised voice but not in a malicious way, more of a i need this can someone help.

I've always been pleased to see you when we've need you. Just share some of those doughnuts. They will make you fat if you don't share ;)

The only thing is that every single person asks me about doughnuts! It was a joke people, I don't eat doughnuts! ;)


I do :rotate: :rotate: :rotate: !!!!

Rosie

PS: So does Martin (sorry boss ;) )

the amount of times you lot have seen me and never a duff nut in sight.

I feel cheated
you want us and them......hmmmmm....
;)

Apart from the lack of cake sharing there doesn't appear to be a problem.;)

If anyone does know of a problem please let us know so we can mend our ways.


Regards

Midland Rescue.

My opinion, as a trackside marshal of Rescue?

Provided they stay well away from me, I'm happy*!

*go and search around for a thread involving me, training days and rescue units to find out why. I'm allergic to them.

Well i got my little badge from the MSA today annoucing that I am a rescue trainee :D I've only just seen this thread and now wondering what i've let myself in for!!!

Any advice to a newbie??????

Well i got my little badge from the MSA today annoucing that I am a rescue trainee :D I've only just seen this thread and now wondering what i've let myself in for!!!

Any advice to a newbie??????

DON'T DO IT!!!!;)
Seriously though...welcome to the clan. Firstly you do need a good sense of humor, dont take it to seriously(except when you have too of course) and take on board all the advise give. I joined rescue because of the technical aspect of the job.....and I couldn't get on with flagging, short concentration span you see. Don't forget your roots on the bank, we all started there.

Enjoy.

I think that the rescue crew are lovely people, really really nice.
So does Dee and the other on post 12. :) bugger now i have sugar on the keyboard.

What a coincidence; I was about to say the same about the marshals on post 12 :rotate: !!!

Thanks guys. Hope you had a good weekend.

Rosie

I like to think that these days Midland Rescue have a great relationship with Marshals on the bank....


Our unit is always available for anyone who wants to see whats inside and how things work and to see what our job entails....


As rescuedude has already stated if there's anything amiss please tell us and we can get it sorted (apart from sharing cake and the Sunday Sport ;) )

Well i got my little badge from the MSA today annoucing that I am a rescue trainee :D I've only just seen this thread and now wondering what i've let myself in for!!!

Any advice to a newbie??????

If your going to be a girl on rescue, you will need a tough skin and ear plugs, (for the snoring), maybe some air freshener too. If the lads I work with are anything to go by......yes I'm talking to you,,,,you bunch of smelly, uncouth, fart boxes. You are awful,,,,,,,,but I love you. :p

But on a more serious note, they are all a bunch of great guys, who will all pull together and always work as a team and look out for each other, and never put on a them and us attitude, after all we are all still marshalls and most of us on midland rescue still go on the bank, it is always a great time on the bank and you get to work with other people too, as you do tend, on rescue to work with the same crew, and yes they always eat all the cake. and I have said before, there are three seats in the rescue unit. One for the driver, one for the IC and one for the food.

Well i got my little badge from the MSA today annoucing that I am a rescue trainee :D I've only just seen this thread and now wondering what i've let myself in for!!!

Any advice to a newbie??????

Welcome the the world of rescue.

The best advice is always have your sense of humour handy.

Give as good as you get. ( the ribbing can seem quite harsh to an outsider but it is in good fun)

If your on a unit with Mr Kirby make sure you can quote everything from Monty Python.:laugh:

A couple of things I would like to add, on the occasions that I have been involved in incidents when the rescue unit is required it has been a wonderful sight to see the unit coming down the track with all lights going. I have also seen some of the unit help sweep up including the doctor! :-)

I was also fortunate to attend one of the rescue days a couple of years ago at Thruxton. This was an excellent insight into the crew and how they work, we also got to remove the roof from a Metro! Since that day on the occasions that I have been working along side the rescue crew I have been able to understand what they have been doing and on the odd occasions even helped!!

I think another Rescue day would be fun and useful!

Welcome the the world of rescue.

The best advice is always have your sense of humour handy.

Give as good as you get. ( the ribbing can seem quite harsh to an outsider but it is in good fun)

If your on a unit with Mr Kirby make sure you can quote everything from Monty Python.:laugh:

I'm sure I do not know what you mean!.......see you at the Festival

I'm sure I do not know what you mean!.......see you at the Festival


Ni Ni. :laugh:

Rescue Dude I didnt expect that of you.......Da Da Daaah NOBODY EXPECTS THE........you know the rest.

sorry gone a little off topic here.

I like to think that these days Midland Rescue have a great relationship with Marshals on the bank....


Our unit is always available for anyone who wants to see whats inside and how things work and to see what our job entails....


As rescuedude has already stated if there's anything amiss please tell us and we can get it sorted (apart from sharing cake and the Sunday Sport ;) )

Cake Sharing? ppuurrllleeeaaaassseeee

If your on a unit with Mr Kirby make sure you can quote everything from Monty Python.:laugh:

Ermmmmmm i'm far tooo young :innocent: the only one i know is "hes not the messiah hes a very naughty boy!!!!!

Thanks for all your advice though, i'll be taking it all on board!!

I can tell you Rescue are very good with marshals on the bank, or off the bank as in my case yesterday!!:ouch:
(See the Thurxton F2 thread.)
Thanks for your help Guys.:winner:

Over the last few years relationships have improved significantly (a lot more interaction at training days etc has helped), except for one unit that ponces about as though they are above us mere bankside marshals.

ps. Wouldn't trust them to cut their way out of a paper bag let alone anything else.

My opinion, as a trackside marshal of Rescue?

Provided they stay well away from me, I'm happy*!

*go and search around for a thread involving me, training days and rescue units to find out why. I'm allergic to them.

Glad to be of assistance mate, call on us any time you feel like "dropping in":rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Colin.

Over the last few years relationships have improved significantly (a lot more interaction at training days etc has helped), except for one unit that ponces about as though they are above us mere bankside marshals.

ps. Wouldn't trust them to cut their way out of a paper bag let alone anything else.

Give us a clue?

Give us a clue?




I was thinking the same thing but didnt want to ask :o

ps. Wouldn't trust them to cut their way out of a paper bag let alone anything else.

Not exactly a comment to make you popular is it? I think if you wish to make comments such as these you should do it off forum ie PM.

To be fair Stephen, it's an opinion, everybody is entitled to one!

I asked the question and if that is the perception then there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

"Opinions? - Yes they're like *********, everybody's got one."


(The Dead Pool - Clint Eastwood)

:rofl:

Jim