Endangered Species

Just a daft thought.

This morning I passed on the road a 1978 Chrysler/Talbot Alpine. Pre face-lift, it was a time capsule of just how I remembered them. Cream/beige bumpers, chronic timing rattle, gentle puffs of black smoke pouring from the exhaust....

And it made me realise it must be ten years since I last saw one. If the one I saw today isn't in active preservation, it is likely that it, too, will follow its brethren to the great scrapyard in the sky before long.

Are there any automotive orphans that have actually disappeared completely, do you suppose? Series production cars that were once common but now utterly disappeared from sight?

I know that the 1956 Singer Hunter is represented by only three known survivors. Are there any scarcer ones?

And would you save one if you had the chance? I know that I would love to recapture a little bit of my childhood by preserving a Hillman Avenger and a Sunbeam Rapier H120. Both models are getting thin on the ground.

And then of course there's my strange predilection for Mk4 Ford Zodiacs....

Do you have a soft spot for everyone else's cast-offs?

If I could preserve a car it would be the Ford Escort Cosworth, not very old (1992-1996) but becoming ever more scarce. The car has so much history to it, it would be a shame if they were to disappear.

Of course, those cars most prone to cancer would be the ones at greatest risk.

Here I would be looking for a nice Peugeot 404.

I was reading that the number of Morris Marinas/Itals on the road actually halved last year. Like you Tim I find it a shame when cars such as these seem in danger of extinction, even if their only value is to show how far car design and manufacture have come.

My softspot is for the Opel Manta B (and A to an extent) in GTE form. I had one of these for a couple of years. Mechanically a sound car and a lot of fun to drive, even if it was a Mk1 Cavalier in a party-frock. Not that good with the old tinworm though and getting parts for them is getting progressively harder. Prices in the UK have stayed pretty stable for several years now at around £2,000 for a decent one, which seems to be about average for the 1980's sports hatches that have any level of cult following (eg. Scirocco, Golf GTi, XR3i). What are we to make of those who buy a car like that and then spend thousands of pounds transforming it into a near race-spec. road car though? Whilst there's certainly something to be said for small mods that update a car, perhaps for safety reasons or for that personal stamp of creativity, surely part of the fun of running a car like that is experiencing the character of the decade it was built in.

Originally posted by paul c
What are we to make of those who buy a car like that and then spend thousands of pounds transforming it into a near race-spec. road car though? Whilst there's certainly something to be said for small mods that update a car, perhaps for safety reasons or for that personal stamp of creativity, surely part of the fun of running a car like that is experiencing the character of the decade it was built in.

They probably pick those models to start with because they are cheap, and they can gradually build up their cars. Theres not many cars i can think of that someone hasn't modifed in some way.

Ford Pinto or Maverick, the AMC Pacer, a Chevy Chevette or Polaris, now those babies give me a tear in my eye when I realize that I haven't seen any in ages......

but seriously, perhaps moreso here in Canada, because of the winter/road salt thing, there is a constant slow shift of a certain decade's cars that slowly become less and less numerous on the road, to finally petter out to nothing.

As you said Tim, for those of us who keep a visual (and emotional) image bank of various cars in our heads, it is a pleasant surprise when an unexpected car from our past pops up and really stands out simply because we haven't seen one in "X" number of years.
It's interesting to note that while we share memories of more well known automobiles, the models you mentioned mean absolutely nothing to me, as we probably never had them over here.

Know what you mean about that joy you find when you see one... I pulled up on a lonely road to top up my fuel on the way to Melbourne the other month... a Peugeot 203 loaded with people pulled up at the nearby intersection moments later!

djb, there's a chap not so very far from me who has an AMC Pacer mouldering on his driveway. It's got an original 1976 registration, so it must have been imported new, but it hasn't turned a wheel in at least a decade.

You mention that some of the cars I mentioned meant little in North America. Well, as far as I know, the Chrysler Alpine was marketed for a while as the Simca 1308, but I know for a fact that what I call a Hillman Avenger was marketed in some territories as the 1971/2 Plymouth Cricket.

Very sturdy little cars, and I'd like to save one before they all wind up on the oval shale circuits of Great Britain.

Originally posted by TimD
djb, there's a chap not so very far from me who has an AMC Pacer mouldering on his driveway....

Funny you should mention this, there was one in exactly the same condition in a driveway in the Brisbane suburb of Wynnum West when I was there a few weeks ago...

Time to pull that Ford Edsell out of the garage now I think.

All those who brought one at the time and to embarased to drive it and tucked it away out of sight must be laughing their heads off now.

Now I think of it did Bugatti not issue Royalle's to Viceroies of countries ? Is there still not one missing ?

SL

Well well, Tim and Ray, I would never had thought that the Pacer would have been anywhere else but here in N.A. I can't imagine it's "greenhouse" effect down under-now THERE'S some vinyl seats you wouldn't want any exposed skin getting near! It really was a funny bird wasn't it, and you do not really see any of them anywhere, mouldering or not. I have very vague memories of the Cricket, although its' rather plain lines certainly did not make much of an impression on me as a kid, when across the street at Redshaw's British Car Garage, there were all those lovely Jags, Triumphs and brethren.

Hey Charger!

My soft spot is Isuzu Bellets. For those that don't know them they are a quirky mid-60's Japanese car. I have a sedan and a GT. The GT has heate instead of heater engraved on the dash panel under the switch.

Dave? 69 Charger?
I liked my 69 Roadrunner.
Tim
Take that Cricket and dump in the small 383, with a Cam Dynamics cam and some stiffer slugs, narrow the rear end, put on a four link, or ladder bar rear suspention, and some wide wiennies, and twice pipes.. and prowl Harrow for anything that moves

For an oddball I'll take one of those AMXs what 67-69...

A Nissan Gazelle! so there is still one for when i get my lisence!

Strad, The Dodge Charger is an awesome car and very rare in Australia. I was referring to it's Aussie cousin, the Chrysler Valiant Charger. A big car in Oz, but a compact to you guys, the R/T model left the factory with a 265 cu in straight six and three twin throat side draft Weber carbies! One of the best looking cars ever designed in Australia. I've owned three and still miss the last one, 8 years on!

HMmmmmmmmmm little 273 V8 would fit perfect, with the six pack set up and a torqueflight..probably have to get a beefier rearend..but that's cool cause you could tub the Charger while putting a narrowed third member under it.. terrorize all the staight line bullys...quite the sleeper..

It's the same Valiant I believe, they just added the Charger part for your benefit..but it's still MoPar right?

Strad, the Aussie Charger is a completely different car to the American Charger. It is a couple of feet shorter and with no interchangeable parts. Why on Earth would you want to put in a 273 V8 when the 265 Hemi 6 pack was far more powerful?

The 318 fireball was optional across the Charger range and the 360 was available on the luxury models, but only with a tiny 2 barrell Carter. The last R/T charger was available with a 4 barrell 340, but to avoid Government(nanny) pressure, it was billed as a luxury sports car and was only available with a 727 Torqueflite auto and air conditioning etc.

Just havin fun with y'all..
I would imagine parts are not easily picked up..
The small 273 can be made to scream and I figured it to be a better fit..
The old bigger block 383 would NEVER fit,,the smaller 383 based on the 318 block would probably fit and can easily put out in the 425 hp range.
I believe-and could easily be wrong- that your Charger is a Plymouth Cricket or a Dodge Dart sized car..right?
Never heard of a 265 Hemi..had a 426,,
Of course it came with the 727 Torqueflight...can't beat it..indestructable..ever hear of putting a clutch in front of one instead of a torque converter?..works ......

We had the 360 but with either the 6 pack-three dueces, or Carter AVS four barrel and it was a screamer that would probably fit,,,
BTW I thought we were talking about some guys Cricket,,which I would be interested in knowing if it was actually a Plymouth Cricket as they were badged here.
Kinda square looking? Small kinda 69 Roadrunner lookin?
Tell ya what if ya can post a picture...I'd like to know exactly what we are talking about...

http://www.chargerclubofwa.asn.au/membersmain.htm

Strad, the Aussie Charger is about the size of the Dart. In fact, prior to 1971, the year the Aussie Charger was released, the Chrysler Valiant was just an Australianised Dodge Dart. In 1971, they retained most of the mechanicals but added a new all Australian body which was quite rounded.

The 265 Hemi was also an Australian designed engine, though i believe it is similar to the 4.0 litre engine sold in Jeeps nowadays.

What a great body style! Thanks for the pics Bomn.
Make a great street racer.
I have heard that parts, especially hot rod parts are like super expensive down there.
There's a lot a guy could do with stock and Mopar racer across the counter parts.
Is there a way for you guys to get CARE packages from stateside?
Seems with the web a person cultivate a relationship with a MoPar guy in the U.S. and could get gifts ;) sent to him thereby saving a few bucks........

Strad, as you, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. From the rear, the side bits behind the rear window have a Javelin look to them , as well as a XJ-S look as well. (this is from looking at the some of the '71 shots) Have to agree that it's a nice shape and its interesting to see the American influences.

The Valients are just like the Darts and Valients over here from tthat time. (the Valient name disappeared to be replaced by the Dart if I remember correctly)

another thanks for the pics

Plymouths were Valiants and the Dodges were Darts. :)
They were the same car underneath..;)
What did they call Pontiacs up there?? Can't remember,,started with a B..
I think that Aussie Charger could really scream with the right mix of MoPar catalog parts...could do it up as a real sleeper...:rotate:

Originally posted by djb
Strad, as you, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. From the rear, the side bits behind the rear window have a Javelin look to them , as well as a XJ-S look as well. (this is from looking at the some of the '71 shots) Have to agree that it's a nice shape and its interesting to see the American influences.

The Valients are just like the Darts and Valients over here from tthat time. (the Valient name disappeared to be replaced by the Dart if I remember correctly)

another thanks for the pics

Remeber the early 70's variants, the Dodge Demon and the Plymouth Duster?

The Australian Charger is a handsome car, much less fussy than the early '70's North American cars. I always liked the last Challengers and Baracudas and I thought that the circa 1973 Plynouth Sebring was elegant.

My vote though goes to the first Chevy Vegas, before the f mile and Hour bumpers went on-they were cute and had a great wide open grille like a small Camaro.

Originally posted by EERO



My vote though goes to the first Chevy Vegas, before the f mile and Hour bumpers went on-they were cute and had a great wide open grille like a small Camaro.
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Well they were cute, but best with a small block in the back seat............:laugh:

Just joking my friend...
We have any drag racing fans here?

Of course re:Plymouth and Dodge. My grandad had Valients and ten or fifteen years later one of my friends family had a Dart so I forgot the diff. companies and applied the age difference.

As for the Dusters, and Polaris's and all those other ones, I always found the lines too rounded and "bulgy"-even back then.

Vega's, too small, although I remember a few that were done up with wide tires and everything and they looked pretty good. In the Aussie charger site, the first 73 car, a red one, has a direct side shot that has a Vega look to it don't you think? The other day when I was thinking this, the Vega name didn't come, but when Eero mentioned it, I went "that's it!"

oh and ps, nope Strad, although I was always impressed by 1/4 mile times, I've always been a curvey late braking type of guy.

I'm not really a drag racing fan, though i have been a few times and the top cars are very impressive. In Australia, drag racing fans outnumber road racing fans by about 10 to 1. Like DJB, I've always been more impressed though by late braking and plenty of corner speed.

Well I started out curvy, then I went straight, then I went back to the twisties ,then I went back straight...
I just love the expolsive power,,
F1 is my first love but I'll always have a soft spot for drag racing.

My last attempt..
Now will some computer whiz explain why the scanning process reversed the lettering??

BTW, djb,,,I wasn't being funny...lots of people get the brands mixed and it's easy to see why,,,for the most part the mechanicals were interchangeable...
One reason people concentrate on the Chevys in the U.S. is that there are more parts available and thus it's cheaper, so the Dodges and Plymouths are a little more rare.
Had a 430hp 69 Roadrunner, one of my favorites.
Nobody answered, about the cost down under for hot rod parts. I've heard that it is fair to midlin' expensive.

"Well I started out curvy, then I went straight, then I went back to the twisties ,then I went back straight... "

Strad, if you really are a long shoreman, I wouldn't utter THAT at work!

Like you said about the explosive power, it is just mind boggling the speeds the top cars get to in only a quarter and 6 seconds or less.
As for your photo, unless you scanned a slide and put it in backwards, the only thing that makes sense is that somewhere along the line, a "flip image" thingee is set to the "on" position. Was it a digital camera shot, a flatbed scanner from a print, or any kind of scanner using a slide? Can't claim to be a total expert, but this is in my line of work.

hehehe, yeah I thought about the wording after I wrote it,,, got a pic in my profile,,
I grabbed a photo off my wall and scanned it...it does a mirror image thing I reckon.