Okay - what is it for you? The one car above all others you'd like to open a barn door and find? And what is the car you would most like to see out on the circuits again - even if only the once?
I've seen my dream machine on a track on one glorious occasion. The Land Speed Record and Brooklands special "Babs" turned up at Silverstone a few years ago and managed a couple of tentative laps. I broke into a veritable sprint when I saw what was being wheeled out from under the tarpaulin.
As for the dream discovery - for me it would be the original Zbrowski "Chitty Bang-Bang". A colossal, brutal car, sadly broken up in the 1930s, according to best reports. But what if the reports were wrong, and it were lurking, waiting in some forgotten lean-to somewhere?
Vitesse 11 Mar 2002, 17:03 Dream machines - too many to mention, but a few would be the Alfa Romeo 512, the Miller that ran at AVUS and Tripoli in 1934, Nuvolari's Alfa that won the 1935 German GP ...
Dream discoveries - the remains of Lehoux' ERA R3B, a genuine Auto Union E-type, a genuine 1961 Ferrari 156 Sharknose...
John Schoen 11 Mar 2002, 20:43 Nothing too exotic: the Bevan Imp. That is the Sunbeam Imp in which Bill McGovern won the British saloon car championship three times in a row in the early seventies. Apparently it had an accident in the eighties at Brands Hatch, was stored somewhere and disappeared.
Or the Asp, a prototype based on the Hillman Imp. It looked like a smaller Lotus Elan or even a baby Ferrari. I only know it from photos but it is absolutely beautiful.
Tim;
Do you get AutoWeek? If not I thought you might like this:
J.G. Parry Thomas and Babs
Seventy-five years ago this month, Welshman John Godfrey Parry Thomas lost his life attempting to recapture the world’s land speed record. Although less well known today than his rivals Sir Malcolm Campbell and Sir Henry Segrave, Parry Thomas was a giant of his time.
The son of a vicar, Parry Thomas was described as shy, disdaining hero-worship and publicity though he was a revered figure in British motor racing. His biographer Hugh Tours wrote, “His love of children was an enduring characteristic throughout his life.” Parry Thomas named his LSRsetting car “Babs,” after a small child, the daughter of friends. And though it was little known during his lifetime, he endowed a cot at London’s Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children, with proceeds from a BBC interview and a stipend from exhibiting Babs after he broke the record.
Parry Thomas was a brilliant engineer, but his passion was racing. By 1923 he was competing at Brooldands in a variety of cars of his own design and construction, but the land speed record was his ultimate goal.
Lacking the resources to develop a car for the record, Parry Thomas acquired the Higham Special following the death of Count Louis Zborowski in 1924. This car was similar to Zborowski’s aero-engined “Chitty Bang Bang” cars; it was fitted with a 27-liter V12 Liberty aircraft engine. Parry Thomas added his own innovations to the car, including its long, tapered tail, and christened it “Babs.” It was with this car that he captured the world’s land speed record at Pendine Sands in Wales, on April 27, 1926, with a two-way average speed of 169.298 mph. The following day he raised his own record to 171.019 mph.
The previous three land speed records had been set by either Campbell or Segrave. In each of these attempts, the record had been increased only slightly; the most recent had stood at 152.30 7 mph. But both Campbell and Segrave were constructing new cars. Campbell’s Napier “Bluebird” was designed for 180 mph, while Sunbeam was creating a twin-engined car for Segrave intended to run 200 mph.
On Feb. 4,1927, Campbell raised the record to 174.883 at Pendine in the Bluebird. At this time Segrave and the “1000-hp Sunbeam” were already aboard a ship bound for America to attempt to take the record to more than 200 mph on the longer sands of Daytona Beach.
Parry Thomas must have felt pressure to recapture the record while he had a chance, but delays kept him from Pendine until March 3, 1927. Suffering from influenza, and the car from mechanical ills, Parry Thomas finally set off down the beach. But before the run could be completed, Babs skidded, rolled over, settled upright and caught fire. Some thought a drive chain had broken. Others, that a wheel had collapsed. Regardless, Parry Thomas was dead.
He was buried in the Byfleet Church cemetery near Brooklands; Babs was buried in the sand at Pendine, where it remained for 42 years until Owen Wyn Owen disinterred it in 1969. Owen restored the car and today Babs is on display at the Museum of Speed at Pendine Sands. And quietly, contributions have been made to renew the endowment at the Great Ormond Street Hospital that was originally established by a gentleman known to the hospital staff only as “Mr. Thomas,
engineer.” —LEIGH A. DORRINGTON
Check out the passenger.....on for a hairy ride.
Wow! Thanks for that one.
And the picture has thrown up another anomaly for me. I'm assuming it to be a relatively recent shot, because try as I might, I can't find any record of "Babs" running a competition number as high as 156.
Trouble is, it doesn't look like a recent shot!
The picture is from "With Flying Colours" A pictorial history of MotorSport from 1894 to the Present Day-The Pirelli Album of Motor Sport.
The caption reads: JG Parry-Thomas in "Babs" the Land Speed Record contender which eventually killed him.
Since he has a passenger I can only guess that this is some exhibition or test run...They are evidently up to fair speed if you look at the hair and the cheeks..the guy got a hairy ride. ;)
DAVID PATERSON 12 Mar 2002, 13:57 I'm such a Philistine, but at least I'm not shy about it. My submission to this discussion may seem somewhat humble compared to the others, but hey! I want to see this car.
In the late 1960's Ford Australia, while happy that the Mustang was so sucessful in Australian Touring Car Racing, were also dismayed by the fact that all the attention was going to a car they didn't sell.
So, they gave noted race engineer John Wynne, a shed, two new Ford Falcon sedans and a cheque book. The Instruction was simple, call us when they are race winners.
Upon completion, the cars were presented to Ford Australia's top two drivers, Pete Geoghegan and Allan Moffatt. The cars were very sophisticated and proved troublesome. Geoghegan persisted with his and eventually ironed out many of the bugs, but not all, and won several races but never looked like winning the championship.
Moffatt quickly tired of his and returned to the Kar Kraft Trans-Am Mustang. Moffat's Falcon was reportedly scrapped.
After seeing the Geoghegan car at a recent historic race meeting, I would dearly love to "discover" Moffat's car. Not only would it be a wonderful joy to find something that special, but I could make a fortune selling it to David Bowden, a wealthy collector who owns more than 70 significant Australian Touring Cars, including the Geoghegan Super Falcon.
At first glance, the cars were just a Ford Falcon sedan, but closer inspection reveals a 600hp Ford Cleveland 351 V8 with alloy heads and fuel injection. They had full race suspension which bore little relationship to the road cars and ran on 10" wide Minilite wheels which must have been almost unheard of in the late '60s.
Certainly not a discovery as it's whereabouts are well known, and it's probably not that interesting to most of you either, but I really really want to see De Crasheris take the 7-Up Jordan 191 round the track again! I soooo loved that car when I was getting into motorsport, and even had the opportunity to see if at Donington a couple of years ago, but managed to be in the wrong place (the paddock) at the wrong time and missed it! I was gutted at the time but I'd love to see it now :)
I don't have any pictures David, however Speedvision before it became Speedchannel had a show on that car. Quite an accomplishment really. If SV showed it then Duke video or someone like that has the tape available...
That's him!
Lovely looking car and one that saw a stunning weekend at Spa in the team's debut year... :)
David, no need to apologise over choosing the Falcon. I'd never heard of the beastie, and I'm intrigued. Definitely keen to find out more.
Thinking of wild tin-topped hybrids, there are a couple of others that are lost to posterity, I think.
Doc Merfield's 289ci V-8 engined "Fraud" Cortina Mk1 springs to mind, the scourge of special saloon racing in the late 1960s. Wonder where that is now? And then there's Colin Hawker's "DFVW", a Volkswagen Variant Fastback shell mated to a de Cadenet Lola sports car chassis, with Brabham F1 suspension and a Cosworth motor stuck in the back. A very special car from my childhood, but which I believe has been turned back into the Lola from whence it came now.
A shame, I think.
I have many dream cars,,Big Block Cobra, springs to mind, but I've often told the tale of being a young sprout in the 60s when Scottsdale Ford in Arizona had a GT-40 team car back from France, de-tuned for the street. As I worked near by, I used to sit in that car almost daily doing my Walter Mitty thing, I'd love to get my hands on it and have the chance to wring it's neck around LeMans. Especially if I could get it for the ten grand they wanted for it. If you can believe it they couldn't sell it at that price.
shakes head in dis-belief
:banghead:
Peter Mallett 13 Mar 2002, 21:13 Originally posted by strad
I have many dream cars,,Big Block Cobra, springs to mind, but I've often told the tale of being a young sprout in the 60s when Scottsdale Ford in Arizona had a GT-40 team car back from France, de-tuned for the street. As I worked near by, I used to sit in that car almost daily doing my Walter Mitty thing, I'd love to get my hands on it and have the chance to wring it's neck around LeMans. Especially if I could get it for the ten grand they wanted for it. If you can believe it they couldn't sell it at that price.
shakes head in dis-belief
:banghead:
Not sure but I think it was just sold at auction for around 300 pounds.
Peter Mallett 13 Mar 2002, 21:14 Bugger!!
I meant 300,000.00 thousand, thousand!!! pounds.;)
Tim D
Another couple of interesting cars would be Rob Cox-Allison's "Black Brick" a Lotus s7 with wings and things painted black, Darth Vader the 1st.Mick Hill's "Janglia" an Anglia fitted with a jag 6 motor.Anyone know more about this car
I remember reading about Doc Merrifields "Fraud" in an early Triple C magazine.
Aysedasi 15 Mar 2002, 20:04 Originally posted by mickj
Tim D
Another couple of interesting cars would be Rob Cox-Allison's "Black Brick" a Lotus s7 with wings and things painted black, Darth Vader the 1st.
Yes, I well remember the Cox "Black Brick" - a fantastic looking car. I know I've got some photos of it somewhere which I took at Brands - God knows where they are now though!
Janglia, Black Brick, this is starting to give ideas about a whole new topic. What can I say - the super-modified Modsports and Superloons of the mid-seventies were such outrageous machines. It's no wonder that as a kid they bowled me over when I saw them running.
Wonderful stuff.
Tim D
You people in the UK were/are lucky, you have some great "specialised" machines racing. May they continue
Chris - Melb 18 Mar 2002, 05:55 Hi David,
I noticed that you have a passion for the old Factory Super Falcons.
Would you happen to have old colour slides or photos of them, or the other Touring Car hero's of the time???
I have a web site dedicated to old amateur motor racing photos from that period.
It is at www.drive.to/beechey if you would like to have a look.
There'e a photo there of Geoghegan's Super Falcon on the grid at Calder.
Thanks,
Chris.
Ray Bell 18 Mar 2002, 07:49 Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Upon completion, the cars were presented to Ford Australia's top two drivers, Pete Geoghegan and Allan Moffatt. The cars were very sophisticated and proved troublesome. Geoghegan persisted with his and eventually ironed out many of the bugs, but not all, and won several races but never looked like winning the championship.
John French drove the car first, I seem to remember... in fact, I think he drove both of them at one time or another.
At first glance, the cars were just a Ford Falcon sedan, but closer inspection reveals a 600hp Ford Cleveland 351 V8 with alloy heads and fuel injection. They had full race suspension which bore little relationship to the road cars and ran on 10" wide Minilite wheels which must have been almost unheard of in the late '60s.
Sure they had 'full race suspension' of the time, but it was all standard wishbones and ball joints, as was required by the Improved Production rules of the day.
They didn't have alloy heads, however. I'm almost certain of that, as they were not factory options. 10" wheels were standard wear on the Mustangs, hardly 'almost unheard of'...
I'm afraid you've been led up the garden path with this, maybe because Geoghegan's car became a Sports Sedan and then had some extra mods that weren't there in its few Touring Car days...
Ray Bell 18 Mar 2002, 07:51 And for me... let me see...
Maybe raising the 1919 Indianapolis 8-cyl 5-litre Ballot from the English Channel... that would be nice.
Stranger things have happened, Ray. The English Channel is an extremely mucky bit of water. Certainly over the last two years, fishing boats have hoiked up a periscope from a 1902 experimental submarine, the oleo leg from a B26 bomber, and a significant lump of Messerschmitt 109 - and those are just the finds I've heard about.
You never know what someone's going to trip over next.
Read this and weep !
http://www.thecarsource.com/shelby/cobra/daytona/csx2287.html
It can happen. My dream would be to find a Bugatti Royal. I'm not sure if it is true but ages ago I was told that there is still one missing. I can just see it tired and dusty in a forgoton European outpost. The all or nothing bet in a fixed card game by a titled Gent. The winner not able to get the fuel locks it in a garage forever more. Maybe one day
SL
Ray Bell 19 Mar 2002, 01:09 Thanks TimD... but what a lovely find it would be!
The story always fascinates me.
I'm a little hazy on this one - is this the one that was tipped overboard after an accident at Boulogne? Or was that another car?
Can't even remember the name of the driver who lost his life, now that I think about it.
DAVID PATERSON 19 Mar 2002, 04:39 Ray, John French did a lot of the early testing on the car and when Moffat ran it back to back with the Mustang, he drove which ever was quicker and left the other car for John French to drive.
Also, I believe the rules from '65-'72 were actually Improved Toruing, which was for more highly developed cars than ran in Improved Production from '73-'79. I'm quite sure the car ran alloy heads and fuel injection in the very early '70s. It has been restored to the form it was in in 1972 and it sports them now.
I referred to the wheels as being super wide because theyt were, on a Falcon at least. I'm not sure about this, but I think the suspension was all redesigned and relocated and bore little resemblance to a Falcon
The one car I'd love to find an unknown example of (there were only 12 made, and only six are knowm to still exist), is the Deusenburg SSK.
I saw one once years ago and was absolutely stunned. You've got to see and hear one to believe it!
That photo of "Babs" made me utter a "wow..." That is some piece of metal isn't it? It is elegant and very rough edged at the same time and it's the length that gives it it's panache.
I do not have a car choice significantly interesting to put down, but you know what I really would wish to turn up in a barn one day---an Avro Arrow.
That one I don't think I know anything about...enlighten me please.
Dave Brand 19 Mar 2002, 11:42 Originally posted by djb
but you know what I really would wish to turn up in a barn one day---an Avro Arrow.
Somebody is building a replica!
Big Mac 19 Mar 2002, 12:30 "A genuine 1961 Ferrari 156 Sharknose... "
If not, then 1967 Dutch GP spec Lotus 49 as driven by the late Jim Clark. Does this car still exist somewhere?
Has'nt the '67 Lotus 49 recently been auctioned (98)and now races in historic F1? I'm not sure but the one I am thinking about made its return to the track at Goodwood 1999 and won the race after J Brabham's crash.
David McKinney 19 Mar 2002, 20:37 The 49 auctioned a couple of years ago, and raced at Goodwood Revival meetings, is the ex-Walker/Siffert car (R7).
Mac:
Clark's 1967 Zandvoort car (R2) was rebuilt and renumbered several times, and is now AFAIK with Pete Lovely in the US of A
David Tremayne 20 Mar 2002, 00:16 Bit of a late response this, as I've been trawling through the various topics. The Babs pic isn't Babs at all, but Parry Thomas's similar-looking but less potent Leyland-Thomas.
As for the race car I'd most like to find, I guess anything with some Tom Pryce history would surely give me the chills. Some years ago when I didn't have £6000 Tom's F3 Royale RP11 came up for sale in Autosport...
Failing that, Dave Leslie's little Magnum 833 or a Leda LT20/LT22. Or a BRM P133. Or an Eagle Weslake. Or... Or...
David Tremayne
Wow - that'll teach me to look carefully next time! Especially with the little give-away of the legend "Leyland Thomas No.1" painted down the side.
Sorry if the info was wrong...I can only go by the caption...but it does seem be...
Ray Bell 20 Mar 2002, 04:24 Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Ray, John French did a lot of the early testing on the car and when Moffat ran it back to back with the Mustang, he drove which ever was quicker and left the other car for John French to drive.
Also, I believe the rules from '65-'72 were actually Improved Touring, which was for more highly developed cars than ran in Improved Production from '73-'79. I'm quite sure the car ran alloy heads and fuel injection in the very early '70s. It has been restored to the form it was in in 1972 and it sports them now.
I referred to the wheels as being super wide because they were, on a Falcon at least. I'm not sure about this, but I think the suspension was all redesigned and relocated and bore little resemblance to a Falcon
They were Improved Touring rules, I mentioned that earlier... which were only a little different to the 1973- rules when it came to suspension and basic components.
No alloy heads, but induction systems were free... I don't car what it has now... I recall them talking about Ford "outsmarting themselves and chroming the bores..." at one stage.
Wheel rules I'm not sure of, but as the general limit came to be 10" I doubt they were wider than that at that time. And I'm sure they would have been straight from the Mustangs they ran concurrently.
I'm fairly sure Frenchy drove the Geoghegan car once.
Now, how about someone with the 25-years ATCC book scan the pic of Geoghegan, Moffat and Jane in the esses at Bathurst (the good colour pic) and post it for us?
Strad, I wasn't following the rules and mentioned a Canadian aircraft that was built in '57 or thereabouts.
Readers Digest version is that it was an experimental fighter-bomber, supersonic, incorporated a truckload of tech innovations such as fly by wire controls, outclimbed anything in the world at the time (with a substandard engine in it while waiting for a more powerful one coming down the line). A number were built, but to make a long story short, the whole project was cancelled because it was "too expensive", or it was too threatening to the US air industry , or that the PM at the time was a complete git etc etc. The sore points of it all was twofold, one- the remaining planes were broken up immediately and sold for scrap-we're talking about a plane still in its infancy of development and it could out fly anything on the planet, and two-the whole thing was so demoralizing for the people involved that large numbers of the most talented aeronat. folks went to the states and went on to help with the already strong aircraft industry there as well as the space program..
The long and the short of it was that the Canadian air industry never got going again as we just went on buying fighters from the States and never really developed an air industry beyond bush planes and firebombers. My best friend and I were complete aircraft nuts, and would longingly look at the only remaining bit of an Arrow, a nose and cockpit section, at a museum in Ottawa in the 70's and hope that somehow, someone managed to save one from the scrapyard.
Me, bitter about the whole thing, yup. It was a real bonehead move by a timid Canadian govt. and a pivotal one at that.
"Thanks eh? "
and you know what the funny thing is, it's just not a stereotype halftruth that we use the "eh". Once in a while I even notice myself or friends using it and laugh because we really do sound like Canadians.
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