Imrovements for marshals?

Having read various topics on conditions for marshals, I thought I'd ask what marshals would like to see to improve marshals conditions. We all have our own views as we are from all walks of life. I can't promise any improvements , but I will put the ideas forward.
From my point of view, respect comes high on my list of wants.

Pete Howarth

I agree respect is the main thing that most want. A bit of a break a lunch bag would be nice. I know some will say we want paying to this i diagree as it throws up a lot of problems but unfortunatly i think the only way you can keep geting marshals is to pay for them. There arnt many event canceled due to lack of marshals but i think there will be soon (sadly)

All flag points to either be roofed, or to at the very least have a dry spot where you can put your gear, for a start.

A piece of clear plastic attached to the fence would be good for track marshals as some tracks have a dry spot for obs and flags but we still get wet.

A shelter from the rain and wind would be appreciated, food and drink too, people ask me what we get paid to do what we do, when i tell them nothing, they look at me like i`m some kind of idiot !?!..
I`m not saying "pay us" but i do think that petrol should be paid for...If we all worked out the cost to ourselves each year, well, it doesn`t need a rocket scientist to work out now, does it..
Yes we do it for the love of motorsport, but does motorsport look after us to a level that is acceptable ?
There is still a lot of money in the sport, why it doesn`t get put towards marshals is simple, we don`t rate very highly in the pecking order,take Donington last week, thrown out of our own campsite. I don`t need to say anymore, do i ?
Rant over, sorry but got carried away....

1. Some where to get out of the rain on all posts would be a good start.

2. Reconition/Payment. I am personally of the opinion that Payment is the wrong road to go down, It will only lead to the killing off of club motorsport, or at very least make it more dangerous. But there are other things that can be done. Cirtainly, at National Level (BTCC, F3 et al), if it's been a bad meeting for you, it get's hard to see grids full of quarter million pound cars with teams to suit and then think the teams standing on the shoulders of your efforts won't even shell out for a box of a couple of hundred caps to say thankyou.

My personal feeling is that as the value of winning a big event like a BTCC or F3 is so big to the teams, maybe one of the duties of winning could be providing a token of thanks to the marshals. Do the math; say there were 250 marshals at a F3/GT meeting - Winning F3 team gets us a keyring each, you could get a quite decent one on a bulk order at £2 a throw, I'm sure the GT teams could also whip something of a similar order together, if not a keyring, a cap, an emboridered patch. Any kind of token thankyou is better than just swanning off in their airconditioned transports while we pack up our soggy tents. most of that stuff would double up as advertising anyway. £500 quid? drop in the ocean to those guys, I bet most of them spend more than that on wheeel nuts during the year.

3. Treat Trainees better. I'm sad to say that even after hearing all the reasoning behind the current practices by the big organising clubs and bodies, I'll still think the incentives and organisation of Trainees is shoddy. And I'm willing to name names, MSA, BRSCC, BARC, BRDC and very shamefully BMMC are all equally at fault here. I spoken to a lot of trainees of late, they all without exeption do not understand how the grading system works, how their performance and training is being controlled and monitored, they don't feel confident that anybody exept the prople they run into on post is checking on how they are doing. They definitely don't feel that there is one person they can go to if they have a problem.

Now I don't want to tread on the toes of any chief marshals here. For example Alan Osgood at Gurston Down has got the job off to a fine art, and regulary trains and keeps new marshals. What does he do different? Simple he makes sure he's available and approachable and on your side. How about creating a new duty at circuits - Traineee advocate. Your main duty would be to be the nice chap or chapess who's there to answer trainee's questions and solve their problems. Too much to ask? I'd volunteer!

Mail me back if you want to discuss any of this further.

I think you're spot on with that one Cr0w - it's all very well recruiting people but to get any benefit from them you have to retain them.

I have heard that what used to be done was that each novice would be assigned a "mentor" who would take them around, introduce them to people, get them involved and go on post with them. Now we all know that resources are such that this isn't really viable any more.

However, I would like to say something about this - whilst your idea of a "Trainee Advocate" is a good one, it is the responsibility of all marshals in a club to make new members feel welcome. Don't leave them standing around on their own with no-one to talk to. Don't let them sit alone eating their soggy sandwiches.

It's easy to look on it as someone else's problem, but put yourself in their postion - how would you feel if you were standing around while everyone else knew each other and was chatting away. Unless you are a very confident person and capable of simply walking up to a group of people and including yourself, the alternative is to stand around and try not to intrude.

The Advocate idea is great as well - also, if you don't already have one, what about some kind of introductory pack for new people - something that introduces (with photo preferably) the officials of the Club and their functions and gives details on grading etc. - training documentation is great, but it usually covers the "technical" side rather than the other stuff.

Just a suggestion!

I agree that sometimes as a trainee it can be a bit hard to understand what is happening. I have only just gone up to green badge so have just had the trouble you are talking about however I did find most people approchable. as far as a trainee advocate sounds like a great idea, but i think they will need to be course marshals as when you have progressed up the ranks you might lose touch and forget what it was like at the bottom.

I think that a covered dry point to stand on for 8-10 hours a day. Also a bit more recognition from the organizers and the teams would go along way. I wouldn't go down the path of paying because it could attract the undesirable knuckle dragger to the fold and could finish up causing a bad situation or killing someone.

I am a trainee marshal this season and I am being looked after by the BRSCC SE region, they have a trainee co ordinator and he was there as I signed on last Saturday and made sure I was ok and I know that if I have any problems I can contact him. They tried to put me on a post with and examining observer but this was not possible. I sort of understand how the grading works due to my training day but I am learning things all the time and ask lots of questions.
Have to say that out of the 8 days I have done so far I usually do end up sitting by myself once I have signed on, I try to look busy reading the programme and sometimes I wander round the pits, I feel it is quite difficult to approach a table of marshals who you don't really know.
I am also a member of the BMMC and have had nothing from them asking how I am getting on, if it wasn't for this forum and some of the marshals I have met out on post I think I may have given up by now. I can see why clubs don't hold on to their trainees for very long!!
I've garbled on enough but respect from drivers and some sort of thanks does go along way.

Originally posted by Claire
Have to say that out of the 8 days I have done so far I usually do end up sitting by myself once I have signed on, I try to look busy reading the programme and sometimes I wander round the pits, I feel it is quite difficult to approach a table of marshals who you don't really know.ay.

Claire

Sorry. If you email Stephen Green and I prior to your next Brands Hatch meeting (I am sure one or both of us will be there) we can if you wish arrange to meet you at signing-on and introduce you to some of the guys and girls. I do understand that it all looks a bit daunting and clicky, but really they are the best and most friendly crowd around.

Are you doing the HSCC Historic Superprix at Brands Hatch on 22/23 June? I am signing-on marshals at that meeting so might be a good opportunity to meet you.

Ok so resolution from all forum members.

Next time you see someone sitting on their own diligently reading a programme or looking a bit lonely, make the effort to go over and say hello! :)

Hey we do that anyway EP. Although we had a father and son turn up to a training day and were all keen to continue. But the chief got a phone call the night b4 to inform us that the son had died. A bit sad i know but we are all one big family and if we all make the effort to befriend new trainees straightaway then it makes a great environment for everyone.

That's very sad flaggie :(

I think a lot of people just don't realise that others are feeling left out. So now they do!

As b1ackcr0w is so fond of saying "go on, hug a marshal today"

Although it would probably be polite to introduce yourself first! :)

yeh wouldn't you get arrested in some countries for that!!!

Peter, my next trip to Brands isn't until the 17/18 August but it would be good to be introduced to a few people, thank you.

After reading this thread so far it would seem that we all are suffering from the same problems. However, our club has spent a lot of time making serious effort in resolving as many problems as we could. This has resulted in lunches for every marshal on circuit, you know, sambo, bar, crisps, fruit and a drink. We also ensure that we get our lunchtime, regardless!! Water is always on supply for anyone who wants it, even on post where possible. We now stay at the circuit after racing is over to meet and chat with drivers, get to know them a bit. We have found they like to thank us personally for our days efforts, or getting them out of the litter!! Hey, some of them, even organising clubs, have resorted to buying rounds of drinks, a morale booster or what! :) 10 returned /experienced marshals in the last few weeks. Can’t be too bad! The overall atmosphere at the moment in the club is uplifting, let’s hope it stays that way!

Yes it's good when clubs do that.

The MMA has been doing it for a couple of years now. Although the goodie bags there are supplied by the organising clubs rather than the marshals club, as a gesture of appreciation.

Hi Speedway, welcome to the Marshals Forum at 10 tenths! :)

Your club sounds like it's taken on board what the marshals want and made steps towards improving things for those marshals. Some of it sounds a little familiar ;)

Don't get me wrong we do still have some problems to overcome, like everybody else, we would also like covered post, but give it some time! As long as we keep the members, old and new, happy and coming back, isn't that the important thing!!

Originally posted by Speedway
As long as we keep the members, old and new, happy and coming back, isn't that the important thing!!

That would be the ideal Speedway.

Let's hope you achieve it.

i am a trainee at croft and have found that the gang at croft are a friendly bunch. however i did have the problem of not having a clue about grading etc and had to find out for myself. i think a brief induction should be done with trainees at their first meeting and the mentor idea is excellent. i do not have a problem mixing with people but on the the first few meetings it would be good to have somebody who could introduce you into the different groups of chatting marshalls found at the signing in point and the butty points at dinner time. the other main problem at croft is actually getting upgrade signatures. i have attended every meeting at croft in 2001 and every meeting so far this year and still have only 3 upgrade signatures. this is due to a lack of examining observers at croft. i do not have my sights set on the dizzy heights of the upgrade ladder but nobody wants to be refered to as a "TRAINEE" for too long. this hasn't put me off yet but it might do for some people

One approach that has proved successfull at Oulton Park is that we try to arrange that Trainees are not sent straight out on the bank at their first meeting but taken on a 'Hammond's tour'.

This involves one of our most experienced observers ( and resident Oulton Park historian!) taking them for a walk round the circuit during the morning practice sessions.

He points out how the marshalling system out on the circuit works, shows his photos of Oulton in the old days (mid '60s) and where possible introduces then to some of the more expeienced marshals.

He then takes them round race control to explain how thing work inside.

They are then allocated onto a post for the afternoon session.

Judging by the number of experienced marshals! that turn up in the party it seems to be successull.

Perhaps some of the newer Oulton marshals on this forum could comment on how useful (or otherwise) they found it.

Re: Hammond's Tour

As a new marshal, I thought it was excellent. A little long, but worth it none the less. (It was a little too long as at that point I had no proper footwear, so by the time I got to Druids I was soaked though :( ) It's also interesting to see how different the circuit is nowadays. One thing that struck me, too, was how important Oulton appeared to have been to the early history of motorsport.

As a newbie, it's probably the best way to get acquainted with the circuit, as you visit each and every post and have a 5 minute chat at each one. It would take you years of marshalling to get to see each post in the line of duty.

Anyhow, I've now blabbered on for too long and have to go do some work!

In summary, Cliff's tour gets my thumbs up.

Paul.

I too did the Introductory Tour of Oulton, but unfortunately, Cliff was unable to do it because of mobility problems.

Oulton also have a Tour of the Flag points for all those who are either starting Flagging or are new Flags to the circuit and thinking of making it their home base.

Both Tours are excellent and, in my opinion, if not already introduced should possibly be introduced at other circuits as part of the Training for either completely new or new flag marshals.

Originally posted by Flagman
One approach that has proved successfull at Oulton Park is that we try to arrange that Trainees are not sent straight out on the bank at their first meeting but taken on a 'Hammond's tour'.

As a driver, we are instructed tpo attend a Clerk of the course meeting, before we practice at a circuit where we have never raced before. (Isn't that really bad grammar?).

I sometimes go along even if I've raced at the circuit previously. However Flagman's "Hammond Tour" sounds good fun. The history of some of our circuits needs to be recounted as often as possible. I can think of some people on this board who would jump at the chance of attending, just to look and learn.:)

I never did Cliffs walkabout when I joined Oulton but last year was offered the chance to do the Flag walkabout so they could get an idea of how it worked. I thought it was fun and talking to people who have done both walks it is different. It has opened many peoples eyes to the flag points and focus's more on the drivers point of view with regards the flagging. Personally I like to see what drivers think of it as we know that from a drivers point of view they dont see all flag points.

Maybe the tours that are being talked about could happen in OZ. The closet a driver gets to a flag point is when he spends 8 hours on the wall for his upgrade. Repeated reports of drivers for various offences some say where's that flag point.

Flaggie 1, lots of drivers have spent other \times at flag points, myself included. May be mistaken but in VIC we don't have to spend time on a point for an upgrade - NSW do though.
To Evil Pumpkin, the bestest cuddles available on track(apart from "he who fixes the car" are from flaggies and the occasional scrut, comms, firey, etc..

LOL - I'll remember that miata - the cuddles are few and far between these days - I wonder if I should wash my overalls....? ;)

To get a licence upgrade all competitors must do 8 hrs on the wall in vic (atleast don't know about i/s). What i was saying is there seams to be a lack of attention to flag points from some drivers. The only competitors that i have seen look at flag points are the state series peddlers.

ah Flaggie1 old son.... Not true. I've had Rick Kelly trackside with me for his 8 hours. And unlike a certain Davison, he stayed out there for his 8 hours.

Well wombat what i'm talking about is blokes on track racing that don't pay attention to the flags being waved. Dean Camm and his mate at Sandown not to long ago when they drove thru 5 waved RED flags b 4 they stopped.

I'm a trainee marshal with the BRSCC SW, and as yet have done just 2 meetings at Castle Combe (very sunburnt from Saturday's as I write this!). I've found everyone to be really friendly so far, and very willing to answer questions or point you in the right direction. The examining observer on my post on Saturday was really good - he made a point of asking one of the more experienced guys to come down and talk to me and answer my questions. It didn't take much effort on their behalf, but it really made for a better day - the F3 testing was a bit slow so I was glad they were an easy bunch to talk to.

The people on my post at my first meeting were equally good, so much so that at lunchtime I went down to the shop and got my proban overalls after just half a day's experience. They didn't have to try hard to retain me - just talk to me and make sure I enjoyed what I was doing.

I'm a would-be driver myself, and to stick up for drivers, I and my racing friends all appreciate the role of marshals in making our racing possible.

Phill

Phill, Did you find your self being rolled around in the nearest gravel trap ? As is the custom when we see a new pair of probans ????
Have a good time marshalling, you get out of it, what you put into it. Have fun....:rotate:

Hi Phill,

Glad we came across as friendly :) I'll try to remember those details about Marshalling for AMOC for the 2 day meeting.

Phil, Glad you enjoyed being stuck with us last Saturday! Young Timmy Norman ( for it was he who acted as guide and mentor)is always good for a knowledgeable chat whilst the cars pass by a few feet away. Just watch him 'react' when the tyres start squealing! Hope we see you at the double weekend later this month.... ( Sorry Baldrick whinged all day about too much "testing")

React on squealing tyres? Then he'd love an Aussie HQ Holden race, then. When they DONT squeal their tyres is almost a good enough excuse to throw out a yellow, cause you're an almost dead moral cert to need it.....:rotate:

roflmao .............squeallllllllll ...silence....THUMP
yep thats the Q's allright

Originally posted by Martin Shalders
Sorry Baldrick whinged all day about too much "testing"

It wouldn't have been too much, had there been more cars out, particularly with the GTs. Two 40 minute sessions with just 6 GTOs out from a prospective field of 30-odd GTs and GTOs did get a tad tedious :rolleyes: (Glorious exhaust notes from the Tuscan Rs and the Marcos GTOs almost made up for it though). The F3s weren't trying hard enough either - they just weren't spinning or running off enough ;) :)

Just thought of an improvement for marshals (seeing as that's the thread we're in), when faced with just 6 cars in a long test session, marshals should be able to draw straws in order to make up numbers on the track :D Some of us could have provided more entertainment for the spectators I'm sure, and I know with my standard of driving, I'm sure I would have given the marshals something to do too ;)

Originally posted by b1ackcr0w
1. Some where to get out of the rain on all posts would be a good start.

This would be the best thing overall and really isn't that hard!


2. Reconition/Payment. I am personally of the opinion that Payment is the wrong road to go down, It will only lead to the killing off of club motorsport, or at very least make it more dangerous. But there are other things that can be done. Cirtainly, at National Level (BTCC, F3 et al), if it's been a bad meeting for you, it get's hard to see grids full of quarter million pound cars with teams to suit and then think the teams standing on the shoulders of your efforts won't even shell out for a box of a couple of hundred caps to say thankyou.

Really not that bothered about being paid although a break for lunch would be good (or maybe lunch provided)


3. Treat Trainees better. I'm sad to say that even after hearing all the reasoning behind the current practices by the big organising clubs and bodies, I'll still think the incentives and organisation of Trainees is shoddy. And I'm willing to name names, MSA, BRSCC, BARC, BRDC and very shamefully BMMC are all equally at fault here. I spoken to a lot of trainees of late, they all without exeption do not understand how the grading system works, how their performance and training is being controlled and monitored, they don't feel confident that anybody exept the prople they run into on post is checking on how they are doing. They definitely don't feel that there is one person they can go to if they have a problem.

Now I don't want to tread on the toes of any chief marshals here. For example Alan Osgood at Gurston Down has got the job off to a fine art, and regulary trains and keeps new marshals. What does he do different? Simple he makes sure he's available and approachable and on your side. How about creating a new duty at circuits - Traineee advocate. Your main duty would be to be the nice chap or chapess who's there to answer trainee's questions and solve their problems. Too much to ask? I'd volunteer!

Mail me back if you want to discuss any of this further.

OK - So I am a trainee marshall and I have a few things to say on this.

1. Volenteering is a *****! There are hundreds of different clubs but I should apparently be able to send my forms to my competition secretary (BMRMC) and he'll sort it out but.... he doesn't even mail you back to say he's received your slips so I nearly missed one race because he haddn't and I didn't know! This is perhaps the biggest point for me as I would like to get involved but have a very busy schedule and can't go sending green slips every week on the off-chance one of them will be received.

2. I have been looked after very well by the observers who have looked after me with the BRDC pit-lane crew at Silverstone being by far the best. The BRSCC observers are approachable but I find the overall approach to people they (not the observers but the BRSCC officials) don't know a little off. Someone experienced and outgoing (which don't always seem to go hand-in-hand) is required when newbies start as it's quite daunting for someone new, but they do need to be given the chance to DO something. I appreciate the need to stand and watch what the others do first but the trainee MUST do stuff or it's quite dull

Hope this doesn't upset anyone but it's certainly how I feel and I know I have a couple of other trainees who will support me.

James

Hi James,

Gald you think we in the Pits at Silverstone were the best, we aim to keep people. :)

Are you a member of the BMMC? if so what region, as South Mids will accept Electronic Green Slips, which I believe is the way forward anyway.

But yours and other Trainee's oppinions are important, going back to the green slip point, have you spoken to your regional secretary about this problem?

I can understand why trainee's are frustrated & the last thing I want to do is put peaple off. I would love to spend time with trainees but at most meetings I do not get the time. Also at most of the meetings I attend there are very few examaning observers so it may take a regular trainee a long time to get their upgrade. Yet at other circuits it is quite easy. Because of this I feel that perhaps to much is placed on the grading scheme. All I look for in a marshal is common sense, that as yet isn't graded. When the sh!! hits the fan I don't look to see what grade somone is I look to see what they are doing (or not as the case may be)If somone looks confident holding a fire bottle is in the right place that will do for me If he is fumbling with the bottle is in the wrong place he is no good to me (whatever his grade)

What if every track had a marshal that was willing to be with a 'new marshal' for there first few meetings? I dont mean a flag or an observer just a track marshal. This is only my second year but feel if somthing like this happens it would mean that when the 'new marshals' turn up for the next meeting there is someone to talk to and they wont have to sit up the corner getting pi!!ed off. It also mean that when they are dealing with something they can be watched more closely, and when its been dealt with they could go through it with them. The marshal they are with wouldnt have to be the IO i think that it might be best if they were green/red so they still have an idea of what it is like turning up not knowing anyone.
What do you all think???

Thank you for all your views, I've passed the comments onto BARC, BRSCC, & BMMC.
I'm the competition Secretary for BMMC north east, and I will take volunteering requests by mail,phone or e-mail. If sent by e-mail I will send a reply stating that your details have been sent to the organising club.
I know most chief marshals try to allocate trainee's with someone who is experienced and pleasent, after all we want trainee's to keep coming back.
We have all been trainee's or even novice's, I still have the memories of turning up not knowing anyone. If we all remember how lonely and isolated we felt, then we can all try to make it easier for new trainee's by talking and helping them.
I know that it has been suggested for a certain circuit to have have a training post with an examining observer and a very experienced I.O. and incident marshals. But unfortunately with current marshalling numbers this has not been possible.

Pete Howarth - Black 29X

Originally posted by brickkicker
What if every track had a marshal that was willing to be with a 'new marshal' for there first few meetings? I dont mean a flag or an observer just a track marshal. This is only my second year but feel if somthing like this happens it would mean that when the 'new marshals' turn up for the next meeting there is someone to talk to and they wont have to sit up the corner getting pi!!ed off. It also mean that when they are dealing with something they can be watched more closely, and when its been dealt with they could go through it with them. The marshal they are with wouldnt have to be the IO i think that it might be best if they were green/red so they still have an idea of what it is like turning up not knowing anyone.
What do you all think???

I think this is an excellent idea......the friendly face thing is the best way to make people feel settled. As a new marshal the thing you notice first is the comradeship between people who obviously don't get to see one and other except on race events and want to catch up. As a new marshal you obviously don't get this and I think you're right - a common link accross say 4-5 meetings in a season with a (as an example) newly qualified course marshal as a 'link' would probably make the world of difference.

After all, we're all there to have a good time, watch the cars (or bikes) and get to know some new people :D

James

(Who will be doing the Superbikes this weekend :laugh: )

I think this idea would be simple to set in place. If there is anyone reading this who is responsible for post allocation can this be done. I would be willing to do this at donno or mallory I am sure there are a lot others that would as well as if no new marshals start all racing will come to an end.

as a trainee but with 1.5 years experience i would be willing to accompany a new starter at croft. i may not have the signatures but the experience of being new is still a recent memory so i feel someone who is in my position could help more than one of the veterans maybe the way to go would be a spell with the likes of myself as an introduction then a spell with someone more experienced to gain from thier wealth of knowledge.

Jeff

I may well take you up on that

Kev

no problem kev just say when

HI Jeff,

My name is Graham Inness.
..Meet me at sign on touring cars...just ask any one and they point this "muppet" out.

AS for trainees in general ..It would be nice if very trainee could have an experienced buddy but...at croft we have many trainees and not a lot of experienced grades (including examining observers) but certainly worth thinking about in the future.

I agree that we must do more to keep trainees and may be a buddy system would help a lot. I also like the tou idea used at Oulton

Pete Howarth - see you at GP/next meeting..I think I may bring this up as an agenda item.

Grahm,

Where are you allocated?

graham,
i will certainly see you at croft, but i already know your face or in the case of the training day your balaclava. all the ideas are good but at the end of the day it takes someone to make it all work. if it keeps the enthusiasm of new people then all the better for the sport.

Graham can also be seen building a better BBQ in the Gallery at www.marshalspost.com :)

And YES the First Aid Kit WAS deliberate :p

Peter, getting back to the original topic, the RT2000s did a track spin again for the MRMCI marshals last weekend.

You can see photos and read a write up here (http://www.rt2000racing.com) - it might give you an idea of how successful something like this can be.

They did and they were brilliant :rotate: Very very very bad piccy of me though !

Shinners will you never learn- the fastest way to get everyone to go visit is to tell them there's a bad photo of you there....or was that your cunning plan? :p

:p :p :p

Gosh Peter your getting some hits on this thread matey.
Reading though the scripts above I think the general opinion is the marshals should not get paid and with this like most of the other points I wholeheartedly agree.
however I do think that we command a little more respect than we get at the moment. That respect could well come from "little thank-yous" like cans of pop at lunchtime (come to that lunchtime itself woyuld be nice).
For me personally I would like to see most if not all circuits provide some good camping facilities.
By good I mean:-
1)A private site for marshalls alone so we can have a few beers together at the end of a day, compare notes, get to meet other marshalls,go to bed at a sensible time without fear of getting woken up by some P**sheads at 4am.

2) Toilets that you can actually use without fear of catching something.

3) A supply of "Drinking water" (something Croft is lacking although I'm told by them that there is a couple of Drinking taps on the circuit but their staff could not tell me where they were.

4) Showers would be nice if the circuit really wanted to be nice to us (bonus point for Donington)although not essential.


Another thing I think that circuits holding the larger meetings could do is make a "fasttrack" out of the circuit for marshalls so we don't have to queue with all the other hoards for an hour when, all we want to do is get home and rest.

This topic has been discussed time and time again on ten-tenths and various other forums but it seems every time we make a step forward someone knocks us two steps back.

Until the MSA faces up to its responsibilities to marshals and starts talking on our behalf to the circuits then our numbers will continue to diminish.

I, like many others, used to attend a great many meetings regardless of what was racing or where it was, last year and more so this year I have only done what I have fancied doing. As Stephen Green said elsewhere on the forum, people will only start taking notice when meetings start getting cancelled through lack of marshals and alas I feel that will be too late.

Nuff Sed

Originally posted by pinki
As Stephen Green said elsewhere on the forum, people will only start taking notice when meetings start getting cancelled through lack of marshals and alas I feel that will be too late.But would they really be cancelled due to lack of marshals, or would organisers invest in lights systems to replace flag marshals and a number of paid snatch vehicle crews? And if it ever came to that - would they ever go back to using us whinging, unpredicatable volunteers who demand that everything stops for a lunchbreak and then give out about lack of toilets/camping facilities/respect? Or are we really indispensible? Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Claire
I usually do end up sitting by myself once I have signed on, I try to look busy reading the programme and sometimes I wander round the pits, I feel it is quite difficult to approach a table of marshals who you don't really know.
I am also a member of the BMMC and have had nothing from them asking how I am getting on, if it wasn't for this forum and some of the marshals I have met out on post I think I may have given up by now.

Claire,

Don't give up, I too am in my first season and understand how you feel. If you can make it to Snetterton for the 750 club meeting, you are guaranteed to be made welcome. The meeting is on 10th & 11th August. Peter Harding is the chief marshal he can be contacted on 01206 502064.

If you can make it look out for me and my family, my name is Tony Holland-Martin, be there around 7.30am

With regard to signatures I have been lucky, sometimes I think it depends on the organising club, the meeting type etc.

As I am sure you will realise it is good fun this marshalling lark.

or would organisers invest in lights systems to replace flag marshals and a number of paid snatch vehicle crews?

Lets hope they might try it. If this happens the health and safety have to be involved as these people would be paid. What do you think they would say about driving tractors and the snatch bloke lying down under a car while all the cars are going round, dont think they will like that. And if its a job they have to stop for a 30 min lunch break.
I think one trouble is that the marshals dont all stick together, If when everyone is at a meeting and they all dont agree with it see the CofC and tell him. If you want a break say "at 12:30 we all stop" they wont risk running without us. If we all take the **** theyll keep giving it to us.
If you want to make a stand do it at a big meeting were people will see F1 thunder in the park BTCC F3 GT's after they see we mean what we say maybe we might get the dignity we deserve. Its not like were asking for the earth just a bit of respect and not treated like cattle

I would tend to agree. I'm very sure that a beancounter somewhere has been employed on a number of occasions to try and work out whether there's some way of replacing marshals - and every time has come up with the fact that it will cost money - usually more money that any one circuit or club is prepared to spend. Hell, even F1 don't have their own marshal crews that they take around the world with them - and they at least have the finances and resources to do it.

I agree with brick - as long as we keep taking it, they'll keep dishing it out. Maybe a hostage would be the answer?

I had this nasty little idea - you'd never make it work of course but it's nice thinking about it......

At every race meeting, on each day, the marshals are given a hostage from both the organisers and the circuit. Hostages are chosen at random so they can't just give you a sacrificial lamb. Said hostage has to go out on the banks all day and whatever the marshals suffer, the hostage suffers too - actually what would be even better would be if it was the SPOUSE of an organiser/circuit rep.......
http://www.emo.spacespider.net/devil02.gif

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
whatever the marshals suffer, the hostage suffers too - actually what would be even better would be if it was the SPOUSE of an organiser/circuit rep.......
http://www.emo.spacespider.net/devil02.gif ...or their first-born?

Depends on the age of the first-born - in my experience, an wet, hungry and furious spouse is a great incentive to ensure that conditions are created to prevent them becoming so again! :p

b1ackcr0w (I agree with what you say below)

"Treat Trainees better. I'm sad to say that even after hearing all the reasoning behind the current practices by the big organising clubs and bodies, I'll still think the incentives and organisation of Trainees is shoddy. And I'm willing to name names, MSA, BRSCC, BARC, BRDC and very shamefully BMMC are all equally at fault here. I spoken to a lot of trainees of late, they all without exeption do not understand how the grading system works, how their performance and training is being controlled and monitored, they don't feel confident that anybody exept the prople they run into on post is checking on how they are doing. They definitely don't feel that there is one person they can go to if they have a problem".

It is patently obvious to me that some peope are cut out to be trainers and others are so woefully inadequate that they are a definate turn-off to newcomers. The inadeqates are not limited to any particular level (I'm sure F1 has a few), they are at all levels. We definately need the governing bodies to take this one by the throat and train and accredite capable/suitable people for this job (how about a cloth patch and a licence endorsement as well). Regular cross checks of the trainers efforts should be encouraged, why not written feedback from the trainees? For example, "Flags Trainer taught me how to do the following ...1, 2, 3, ...at my second race meeting in an efficient, firm but friendly manner"

How else can we ever hope to produce quality, well trained and informed salt of the earth volunteer Motorsport officials??

The only way is to withhold your services [no I don't mean have a strike on race day]. The situation will not get any better until meetings are cancelled - sadly it will also be the innocent competitors who also suffer. Trouble is there will always be a large number of people who will put up with anything to marshal. Witness the GP, lots of complaints but how many actual turned around and went home? The attitude of many was they were only there for the off course sociallising what a load of c**p. If they are prepared to put up with being treated like second class citizens good luck to them, but don't whinge when things go wrong you will still go back next year to get slapped in the face.