Le Mans - First Retirement? (Closed 'til 18.6.02!)

This is Osella's idea, actually. (I don't think we've had it before?).

No poll from me because it really could be any one of 48 cars and you can't have that many options in a poll!

So, what do you reckon the first retirement will be?

I'm going for the Del Bello car.

I'll go for the AutoExe indeed ! If it starts... :laugh:

......or all of the works Audi's simultaneously at the Esses on the first lap........ ;)

Blimey Fab, that was quick!

I am sorry to say i fear that it maybe the Morgon, sorry, but it would be nice to see the 4 Audi's out by the first corner.

Originally posted by Aysedasi
......or all of the works Audi's simultaneously at the Esses on the first lap........ ;)

Don't laugh ! I can remember that four Ferraris retired at the same time in a crash (1967 ?)... I think Derek Bell was in one of them...

Originally posted by rdjones
I am sorry to say i fear that it maybe the Morgon, sorry, but it would be nice to see the 4 Audi's out by the first corner.

I'd prefer some small problems : a spin, then a puncture, then the pilot puking for a bad pizza :laugh: , then... it's enough for just the first lap, don't you think ?

Originally posted by Fab


I'd prefer some small problems : a spin, then a puncture, then the pilot puking for a bad pizza :laugh: , then... it's enough for just the first lap, don't you think ?


Spin, puncture and puke - all on the first lap - for the same car/driver? Perhaps the food poisoning would affect the whole Audi crew.......?



(No, I don't mean it really!).

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Spin, puncture and puke - all on the first lap - for the same car/driver? Perhaps the food poisoning would affect the whole Audi crew.......?

- For the whole Audi crew : yes (but not serious, the pizza problem :bag: !)

- But : a problem for each car (imagine how to clean the car inside :laugh: !). Two or three years ago, a pilot did not finish the race because of that sort of problems !

I think it's about time Stoffer joined in on this - as I can see he's lurking around the forum! Come on Stoffer, no Pilbeam to plump for this year! Who is it going to be for the Tourists' Retirement Sweep this year?

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Who is it going to be for the Tourists' Retirement Sweep this year?

Go on count me in....

Originally posted by rdjones


Go on count me in....

Sorry rd, you've gotta be in the Tourists' bus for that one!! :(

Not sure on specific cars, but I would guess an accident involving a 675 and a GTS or GT car some time in the first couple of hours.

I also have a sinking feeling about the Bentley. So much expectation after last year, but only one car. I just have this nagging thought that it will be out relatively early on with something mechanical. Very happy to be proved wrong of course, but Bentley really should not have put all their eggs in one basket.

I'm afraid it's got to be the Aero 8, based on the troubles it had at PreQual

Sadly I think it's going to be a Caddy. They haven't really got their act together at all yet.

I do hope I'm wrong, at it's an Audi pile up. Head v heart and all that.

FG

i also fear for the morgan. its only plus point is that its going to be near the back on its own. new curve looks great, but i can't help feeling the first few laps its going to be like skating on ice...it just look like its dying to throw someone off. so i'm going midfield...privateer panoz stacks it bigtime!

I'm gonna go for the Spyker!

ooooooh....good one!

Now if it rains......

If it rains, I'll go for the Panoz LMP 07... seems it doesn't like water...

Originally posted by Fab
If it rains, I'll go for the Panoz LMP 07... seems it doesn't like water...


Hmmm, Milka getting wet .....

Don't tempt me!

FG

Originally posted by Fab


Don't laugh ! I can remember that four Ferraris retired at the same time in a crash (1967 ?)... I think Derek Bell was in one of them...

Yep it was in 1967 only it weren't 4 Ferraris, but 3 Fords.
Mario Andretti(Ford GT MK IV) had just recieved new brake pads. He hit the brakes too hard after the hill at a speed of 241km/h (almost 150 mph), spun and crashed into the wall on both sides (at that time two cars managed to avoid him). Then McCluskey (Ford GT Mk II) came over the hill, tried to avoid the wreck of the other Ford and hit the side of the track. When McCluskey's car stopped, Jo Schlesser (Ford GT Mk II) went over the hill but almost the entire track was blocked. He tried to squeeze through in between both wrecks but hit them both. So in about 30 seconds 3 Fords were out of the race.
Just giving some side information out of a books for the ones interested.

For this year, I'd sadly have to go for the Auto-Exe car or the Morgan.

Good job, Evil Fuzzy !

I heard Sir Bell telling a story like that where he was involved... It seems I mixed two stories...

There's images of a similar crash at La Chapelle esses with the Jaguar, involving Paul Frere, in the 50'...

Originally posted by FG1
Hmmm, Milka getting wet .....
Don't tempt me!

Well, she already was last year, don't you think ;) ?

Originally posted by Fab


Don't laugh ! I can remember that four Ferraris retired at the same time in a crash (1967 ?)... I think Derek Bell was in one of them...

Your are right, only it was 1970. Four Ferraris out on the same lap, three in one accident, but Derek Bell is quite adament that although he went out on the same lap, it wasn't as part of that accident.

Cheers
Mike

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Spin, puncture and puke

Sounds like the evil twins of Snap, Crackle & Pop :D :D

Originally posted by iucrmh
Your are right, only it was 1970. Four Ferraris out on the same lap, three in one accident, but Derek Bell is quite adament that although he went out on the same lap, it wasn't as part of that accident.

Thanks Mike ! That's it, the one I thought about first !

It seems a little bit more common than we thought initialy... could happen as well for Audi ! Not that I hope that for them, not an accident...

BTW, I just watched a video downloadable on PK Sport site : we see a trumendous crash of the Gulf Audi, last year. It's not at Le Mans. The weather looks sunny ( :( ) and Johansonn seems pushed out by a Pescarolo Courage... any idea of what happend and where it was ?

I'm betting on the AutoPalace Ferrari falling on its sword first!

The Morgan will be the first car to retire.

My (save) bet is also on the Morgan if no accidents happen within the first hour or so.

It has to be the Morgan. If it doesn't break down in the first few laps then it's going to be a headache for the rest of the field (and how will it handle in the wet?!) Maybe it should have some dayglo chevrons and a 'keep right' sign pasted on the boot
Talking of multiple accidents in the same team, don't forget the Aston Nimrods taking each other out on the Mulsanne.
BigH

Originally posted by Fab



BTW, I just watched a video downloadable on PK Sport site : we see a trumendous crash of the Gulf Audi, last year. It's not at Le Mans. The weather looks sunny ( :( ) and Johansonn seems pushed out by a Pescarolo Courage... any idea of what happend and where it was ?

Nice little video that, isn't it Fab? I wonder where you found the link............?! ;)

Ok Aysedasi, I've been thinking about this one, the Pilbeam seemed appropriate last year, just as the Coupe 450S Maserati was in 1957 (reminding you of my early love of Le Mans!). You might just as well have sweepstake on this one.
Who is going to charge from the start and perhaps make a mistake?
My vote goes for a Dome, and I' plump for the Dutch one. I hope I'm wrong as I wish it well.

Nice to see you stop by, Stoffer! We must meet again before Le Weekend!

Originally posted by bigh

Talking of multiple accidents in the same team, don't forget the Aston Nimrods taking each other out on the Mulsanne.
BigH

Isn't that the one where John Sheldon? was badly hurt?

Yes PZ, he suffered some horrible burns and was laid up for a long time. He made a pretty good recovery, bar the scarring, and returned to Le Mans in '87 or thereabouts. I'll bet it took some of the right stuff to get back in a Group C car again and point it down the Mulsanne.

Originally posted by Fab
...BTW, I just watched a video downloadable on PK Sport site : we see a trumendous crash of the Gulf Audi, last year. It's not at Le Mans. The weather looks sunny ( :( ) and Johansonn seems pushed out by a Pescarolo Courage... any idea of what happend and where it was ?

That was last year at Jarama (?) during the ELMS (?) race. That was the race won overall by the Saleen. The Courage did win the race as the first car over the line, but it was disqualified after the accident with the Audi. Pescarolo Sport made an appeal and I think they won (am I wrong?).

First car to retire-Autoexe Car, Morgan Aero 8, or one of the Vipers.

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Nice little video that, isn't it Fab? I wonder where you found the link............?! ;)

I didn't dare to mention it, but if you push...

Try the edito on that page to get the link :

http://www.aysedasi.btinternet.co.uk/

The movie is definitely worst it ! (and the up mention site too :laugh: )

Originally posted by FastJoel31
That was last year at Jarama (?) during the ELMS (?) race. That was the race won overall by the Saleen. The Courage did win the race as the first car over the line, but it was disqualified after the accident with the Audi. Pescarolo Sport made an appeal and I think they won (am I wrong?).

Thank you FastJoel, I didn't remember that one... by chance, do you know who was driving the Pescarolo car ?

Impressive crash, anyway...

i was thinking again about the morgan. whats the chances if it broke they'd be able to fix it...it does seem more em - rudimentary(?!)than most of the other cars.

like...does it have points?!;)

I remember in 1998 I think there were both the Mercedes CLK LM out within 5 laps!!:rotate:

What was that car that Yannick Dalmas was driving in 2000 that lasted about 1/4 lap? I think it was one of the ROC cars? It didn't even get really out of sight of Pit Out before it lost all its oil and died.

Judging by their past history, I'd bet on the Panoz LMP-07 losing a wheel early on.

And don't pick on my Spyker pals -- they may not be lovely to some of you, but the car was 100% reliable during Sebring until it hit that :censored: Porsche.

Originally posted by Fab


Thank you FastJoel, I didn't remember that one... by chance, do you know who was driving the Pescarolo car ?

Impressive crash, anyway...

After some research, it was the ELMS Estoril race last year. Boris Derichebourg was driving the Pescarolo car, Tom Coronel was in the Audi.


The appeal from Pescarolo Sport-
http://alms.americanlemans.com/News/News.asp?ID=341

The result-
http://alms.americanlemans.com/News/News.asp?ID=489

I remember in 1998 I think there were both the Mercedes CLK LM out within 5 laps!

And not just the Mercs.

2 Konrad Porsche 911's, Oreca Viper and 2 x BMW V12 LM's all before 100 laps, even the Debora done more than that !!! Just 23 finishers that year and many of them walking wounded.

Oh and it was 19 and 31 laps when the Mercs went out both with 'engine problems' (not enough power to take off. Problem solved in '99 :) )

Simon

Originally posted by Liz
What was that car that Yannick Dalmas was driving in 2000 that lasted about 1/4 lap? I think it was one of the ROC cars? It didn't even get really out of sight of Pit Out before it lost all its oil and died.



It was a Reynard Mopar Liz.

Everyone seems to have it in for the poor old Morgan. I'm willing to bet that it wont be the first retirement. (But don't ask me to put my money where my mouth is!!).


Well I never! I've just noticed that this is my 2000th post!

Congratulations Aysedasi!!

Keep going!!!!

Thanks, Aysedasi. They're not racing this year I take it? With them and the Deborah out of contention, it's a hard call to make! But I will vote for the MBD Panoz Mugen LMP-07 Slightly Faster Than A Brick Mobile.

Originally posted by Liz
But I will vote for the MBD Panoz Mugen LMP-07 Slightly Faster Than A Brick Mobile.

Hmmm.... Milka in or out of the car, what would I rather see?

FG

itll either be one of the gt porsches simply because theres so many and theyll probably take each other out, or the morgan because of inexperience. i also reckon the ferrari's could struggle after a while.

Originally posted by viper_man
itll either be one of the gt porsches simply because theres so many and theyll probably take each other out, or the morgan because of inexperience. i also reckon the ferrari's could struggle after a while.

You could well be right, viper_man. I was only thinking the same last night. It wouldn't be the first time that the GT Porsches have had their own arguments in the early laps - could easily happen.

Then again, Liz could be right too!!

The Ferrari's won't struggle.

OK, here's an interim (nearly final) update on the "first retirement" scenario.....

Morgan Aero 8 - rdjones/ginettag27/kdr/hakkiman/hgb/bigh

Autoexe Mazda - Fab/Evil Fuzzy/FastJoel31

Bentley EXP Speed 8 - AllonFS

Cadillac LMP - FG1

Spyker C8 - Paulzinho

Autopalace Ferrari - Osella

Racing for Holland Dome - Stoffer Green

MBD Panoz LMP-07 - Liz

Noel del Bello Reynard - Ayse.

Anyone else like to have a guess?

Morgan is an easy taget!

I was thinking about the Mugen Panoz, same as Liz. Or the Caddillac.

But I think it'll be the Knighthawk MG Lola. The draw of a 675 car is too much.

However watch it be one of the 911s!

Originally posted by Aysedasi
OK, here's an interim (nearly final) update on the "first retirement" scenario.....
Bentley EXP Speed 8 - AllonFS
Aargh, I've been misquoted. I have a bad feeling that the Bentley won't last the distance, but I reckon a 675 or GTS will go first. Probably together in an accident. So my guess is the Noel del Bello Reynard having a contretemps (apologies to Fab and FG1 for my Franglais) with the Equipe de France/FFSA Viper.

Which will then of course keep the crowd entertained for ages trying to enter the pits...

Originally posted by AllonFS
a contretemps...

A contretemps ? You wanna mean a delay ? I'll go for a "hard meeting" with my englench ! :laugh:

Originally posted by AllonFS

having a contretemps (apologies to Fab and FG1 for my Franglais) with the Equipe de France/FFSA Viper.


Pourquoi moi, est-ce-que vous pensez que je suis Francais? Pas de tout, je vous assure!

FG

I'm certain the Mog won't be the first one out in the race, i'll be wearing my lucky T-shirt after all.

However, if there is a car that doesn't pass muster in qualifying, then look no further!

So in order to count for being first retirement, first it has to qualify!

I'm really looking forward to that 4-Audi coming-together tho'!

Originally posted by FG1


Pourquoi moi, est-ce-que vous pensez que je suis Francais? Pas de tout, je vous assure!

FG

I can confirm to everybody here that FG is completely biligual ! He proved it here ! :)

Originally posted by FG1
Pourquoi moi, est-ce-que vous pensez que je suis Francais? Pas de tout, je vous assure!FG
Mercy buckets!

Originally posted by Fab
A contretemps ? You wanna mean a delay ? I'll go for a "hard meeting" with my englench ! :laugh:
Hard meeting is pretty much spot on. We Brits occasionally use the word for argument, disagreement etc. Here for a pile up somewhere between Mulsanne and Porsche curves.

What's the qualifying cut-off time is it 107% of Pole? Is the Morgan in danger of not even making it to the start? :(

Originally posted by Guy Humpage
What's the qualifying cut-off time is it 107% of Pole? Is the Morgan in danger of not even making it to the start? :(

Not the pole overall, the pole of the category...

I think i have to go with Paulzinho at vote for one of the spykers...

(there is only one)
:)

Slightly later than I'd intended, I'm calling in some of the predictions threads. I guess I could leave them just until qualifying starts on Wednesday, but as I can't guarantee being on the forum then, I'm going to do it now!

Here then is the list of predictions on the First Retirement theme:-

Morgan Aero 8 - rdjones/ginettag27/kdr/hakkiman/hgb/bigh

Autoexe Mazda - Fab/Evil Fuzzy/FastJoel31

Spyker C8 - Paulzinho/Quattro

Noel del Bello Reynard - Ayse/AllonFS

Cadillac LMP - FG1

Autopalace Ferrari - Osella

Racing for Holland Dome - Stoffer Green

MBD Panoz LMP-07 - Liz

Knighthawk MG Lola - AdamAshmore

Shame we're all gonna lose when all those Audi's run into each other!!!

:laugh: