Racing

I'm mad...at least thats what most of the motorsport world tend to think when i tell them i race 250 International Karts. A brief spec of the kart; 250cc 2 stroke producing 86.8Bhp ,6 speed G/Box, all wheel disc brakes(kelgate - carbon fibre) 4 pot calipers on front, 6 pot on rear. glass fibre body work which makes it very aerodymanic! 0-60Mph approx 3.2Sec, top speed(depending on circuit) 158Mph. doesn't sound alot but you should try it with your backside half and inch off the floor and no seat belt! serious fun.
The British SuperKart Champs. rounds are raced at the british long circuits, brands hatch, oulton park, thruxton etc.

I remember racing at Thruxton with you lot and the trucks as well. Allard corner looked quite awesome. I guess you could do without the kerbs though.;)

BTW. You will see that we have a few Karters in here. Hope you enjoy yourself.

Do they still hold the Peel Kart GP on the Isle of Man ? That looked cool!

Curious about your username - did you race TKM before gearboxes ?

yeah i raced Snr Tkm before G/Box, i did about 4 years in TKM, decided to chnage as it got a little physco out there. Theres more respect between drivers in G/Box. Yeah they still hold that race every year in the Isle. never done it but it looks crazy. and a bit bumpy to say the least!

That's a surprisingly sensible question from you Rotund One.;)

Yes, my pops still races in 100TKM and he'll agree that it's becoming like bumper cars :( When it was known as Forumla TKM, it was pushed as a clubman type class - affordable and clean - but has descended into an abyss since 100 Britain and 100 National became less popular and died. I put this down, in the main, to the young nippers coming up from Junior TKM - what do you think ? Also, where did you race ? Did you do the Super One series ? I remember some mad weekends at Wombwell, Fulbeck and Shenington when we did a few rounds of that series :)

I've not been around the karting scene for a few years now, but i'm curious to know - have they introduced an automatic starter for gearbox machines yet, or do you still grab anyone who happens to hanging around the dummy grid and rope them into bump starting you ?! :D

whilst i was racing TKM i used to mainly race at the three sister in wigan, purely becuase i LOVED the track, basicaly i love anything fast and wigan was rapid for TKM. I agree that the influx of young drivers has turned it into a very aggresive class to race in, its a shame really but thats racing!
in regard to electric start...we(250) are not allowed an electric start, but the riduclous fact is that across the channel in europe electric starts are permitted. I can't for the life of me work out why we can't have them. But at the moment its a case of grabbing the closest olympic sprinter to give you a push start. luckly enough i had a good team and pushers were never a problem.
Question: do you think a 750cc engine will push 200Mph in a kart if geared correctly?

Yep, pops used to like Three Sisters too - forgot about that one as i've never been there myself. He mainly sticks to clubbies at Shenington and (spit!) Blackbushe now.

750cc ?!?! Holy christ, Batman!! It certainly /should/ do - at least it sounds like it would on paper - but who in their right mind would want to race the thing ?!

no I don't want to race a 750cc, christ that would be mental! I'm aiming to build my own chassis and go for the world landspeed record in a kart by 2002.

welcome to ten tenths tkm81..i race karts in Australia ...only a clubman kart but its still a heap of fun..yours sounds like a heck of a time to keep pointed in the right direction though..I would love to have a go at a gearbox kart

What motor are you using,we're just about to finish mine and its powered by a 95 tz250 and should have a similar power output,we have built our own chassis,mainly to try some different ideas,and one of the guys i will be racing against has just bought a new PVP,which seem to be one of the dominant chassis in your championship,as for you 750cc kart some blokes in England have already done one similar but they went one better and used a 900cc Fireblade engine,which would theoreticly make it 200mph plus,they did have to run wheelie bars though to stop it flipping over.

i use a Rotax 257 engine, i don't think the tz250 has the same power output, i think its slightly less but only by about 8-10 Bhp. I run in the International class, i think your engine is not eligable for that class. i think your class is the national, am i right? at last check i was knocking out 86Bhp. PVP is a nice chassis, in my class the anderson seems to be all winning at the moment.

Peter,

That Thruxton meeting you talk about - was it 4 years ago and had Harleys, trucks and a big accident in the karts round by Church?

I never did find out what happened to that kart or whether the driver was alright. Do you know? It stopped the racing for what seemed like an hour.

What were you racing that day? I don't remember any classic saloons.

200mph in a kart - is this possible aerodynamically? How much drag would an unprotected driver create? Would you need some kind of screen to flip the airflow over your helmet, so you don't suffocate?

Me again...

You ought to start up a new class of drag racing for custom-built karts. I wonder what the quarter-mile time would be...

Would be a reasonably cheap form of motorsport, wouldn't it?

I would say that it is possible aerodynmanicly but you would have to have some sort of deflection over the helmet or yes you pobabley would suficate. would fibre glass be strong enough at 200Mph?

Originally posted by Graham
Peter,

That Thruxton meeting you talk about - was it 4 years ago and had Harleys, trucks and a big accident in the karts round by Church?

I never did find out what happened to that kart or whether the driver was alright. Do you know? It stopped the racing for what seemed like an hour.

What were you racing that day? I don't remember any classic saloons.

Yep, that's the "johnny". Group ones raced that day. It rained for practice and I was storming up the field. Then it dried and I qualified around 16th. Finished 8th I think. Suffered horrendous fuel surge. It was just after that we went to Spa and I caught fire because I'd "brimmed" the fuel tank and it leaked on to the exhaust.;)

Don't recall an accident in the Karts though.

The tz motor easily puts out the same HP as a rotax (latest model is 92hp stock) and parts availiblity is far better and cheaper (on this side of the world anyway) our 250 national class is single cylinder 250cc,superkart class here is any motor or combination of motors with a max of 250cc,some guys up north are running GSXR250 and GPZ250 four cylinder four stroke but they're heavier and dont have the HP and they mainly do short circuit,as for quarter mile times in Australia they are meant to be in the 10 sec times

So you could run quite well against some Prostock dragsters then...?

I'm not sure how the drag racing in England or Europe is setup, but over here a kart could race in the Bracket class. For those not familiar, a racer makes several runs to determine his speed and elapsed time. When the races start, he must declare an index time. He must get as close to this time as possible without going faster. The opponent declares an index as well and the timing lights are setup to theoretically allow the race to be a tie if both drivers have the reaction time and elapsed time. It evens out the track. I have seen a guy on a moped/scooter that took over 35 secs to run the quarter beat out many faster machines. The only problem is that he is well down the track when the faster machine is let go and he doesn't know if the guy might have a problem and hit him. As a kart leaves the driver quite exposed they might not allow it to race against other larger cars. I know some tracks that won't allow bikes to race cars for this very reason. However, I don't think you'll find many club racers that will be able to index faster than a 750cc kart would. It would be as close to feeling a orbital rocket launch as possible!

I don't know much about drag racing - there are only a few strips in the UK, and I think most are up North.

I guessed at the Prostock class coz that's the lowest class I've seen on TV.

Sparky, I think, knows a bit about drag racing so maybe he'd know about how a kart would fare against UK dragsters.

Surely you couldn't have too large an engine in a kart, otherwise you'd get massive wheelspin wouldn't you - like a car?

Maybe you could make a kart with a strong rollcage, but I guess weight would be a factor.

yeah, too large of an engine will cause massive wheelspin but that can be geared out. I'm not looking for a quarter mile time, i'm after an average top speed over a mile straight. i don't think you would be allowed to race a kart against a car becuase of the danger factor but it would make an interesting race. I don't think a roll cage is a good idea not only would it add to the overall weight of the kart but would cause large ammounts of drag. I was thinking of using the Aprila RSV 1000 engine, any thoughts?

Personally, I know nothing about either karts or bikes, but the engine in the Radical Prosport (which is a racing car) seems powerful and flexible...

Like I said above, you might need some bodywork to flip the airflow over you so you don't suffocate (at 200mph), so surely you could put a rollcage underneath...?
Seems stupidly dangerous not to put one in - your balls must hamper you when you walk ;)

Is there a kart land speed record?

i'm not actually sure if there is a kart land speed record, but i am currently trying to find out. A roll cage just sounds as if it will get in the way and cost weight.
The bodywork will be based on mark owens 250, this guy invented full body work for 250 karts!

RSV 1000cc V-Twin 128hp in standard road trim 10% increase with optional chip and exhausts,SBK version would be 160hp + how bout i drop in the Britten factory next time i go past and see if they have a spare motor lying around,a roll cage may add weight but also adds safety but only if you're strapped in,as you know generally a kart will just slide and spin but at 200 mph who knows? and what kind of speed are kart tyres rated to?

Good point - a rollcage is a must. You only get one life (depending on your religion ;) ) so it would be foolhardy/ unbelievably stupid to risk it.

With such a small wheelbase and high centre of gravity, surely it would be a piece of **** to tip the whole thing over? You'd probably be killed at 70mph, let alone 200. I don't think anyone has a scoop big enough to pry your remains from the tarmac...

TKM81 i'd be interested in some info on this Owen's bloke and his bodywork as we intend to build our own,got any pics or a site to look at

There has to be a fine line between the description of a kart, and a LSR device. I have in my mind one of those reclined-seating postion 'cigar' tubes; the sort used by universities and large petroleum companies on economy runs.
The description of a kart witha screen and a cage is stretching things. In order to fit the cage, and keep it low enough to avoid major air resistance (AR) and high centre of gravity (CoG), the driver would need to recline to the point of laying down, not unlike the previously mentioned LSR vehicles. Is there a recognised kart 'format' within which TKM's little machine can be built?

Tyres - Warwick's point - could be the biggest problem.
Most peoples idea of a kart is a small-wheeled open vehicle with exposed engine and driver. To find tyres that would satisfy the aesthetics of a kart format, yet still be capable of withstanding the forces of 200mph, would most likely be custom built.
I seem to remember reading the feature on the Fireblade-powered Zipkart I mentioned way back. The poor 'pilot' (!) had trouble keeping the front wheels on the ground over 100mph. Too much lift resulted in no steering capability at all, which sort of 'self-regulated' the speed issue. Good job there were brakes on the back!

I wouldn't want to do this myself, without a cage of some description. Do you strap yourself in, or allow yourself to be thrown clear? Assuming a cage then, it would have to be very low and enclosed, to avoid the AR and CoG issues described. You might not need belts! The screen. I've never seen a kart with a screen, and suggest to include one would detract from the task. It would become more of an enclosed vehicle. Would it be possible to use a cylinder of oxygen, or pick up the air from a negative area on the vehicle (behind the seat?) I assume you will wear a crash helmet!!? http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

Bottom line - Try and get clarification from an authorised body as to the description of a kart. That must be the starting point.

Some of the karts now are becoming quite sophisticated as regards body work and areodynamics,we have a rule book which gives us maximum track widths, lengths,wheelbases,heights etc,these differ from country to country in America in their enduro karts you are lying prone looking over your toes,in ours you can have a maximum layback of 30 degrees,highest recorded speed i can recall is 165mph by Martin Hines at Daytona in 1995(i think)and 162mph at Assen in 1992,on our shorter tracks(3.5km) we only hit about 130mph down the straight,of course more speed equals more drag and then you need more HP to overcome it.in a kart you also have no suspension so you would want a very good surface for a 200mph run,at 160kph in my kart i bounce over bumps you cant even feel in a car.