King of Kents at the Formula Ford Festival

I've just looked at the entry list for this weekend's King of Kents race - 58 cars!

It looks like being a cracker. A showdown between the Combe, the Midlands and the Southern Formula Ford runners with some extras added in for even more excitement!

And the name Jonathan McGall jumps out ... can that be the same on who used to race in top line FF1600 in the 80s?

As for the other races it's a shame about the Open Saloon race entry (see different thread). But Sports 2000 seem to be bulging at the seams.

And of the course the Zetecs.

Can't wait for the weekend!!

Where's the entry list?

Come on, UCLan Racing!!!

http://www.brscc-se.co.uk/races/fffentrylist.pdf

is where you want to be...

http://www.brscc-se.co.uk/races/entries19oct.pdf

The first link is Festival only; the secon one has the support entry.

looks a nice big entry list ....god i hope we have a dry weekend and some top notch racing.

really looking forward to it.

Seems there are further entries in the saloons according to Rod Birley yesterday!

Theres some good drivers on this list (kents) the more i look the more i see great racing. going to be cracking, cant wait to be involved.

I think this is going to be the series of the weekend. Theres lots of good drivers coming over from Ireland. Will the weekend be broadcast at any stage? Anyone interested in doing an amateur video of King of Kents and selling it at cost?

Great idea, i'd love to have some sort of video of it. Your right it will be the series of the weekend, lots of people who are good and some great battles going on. what heat you in? I take it youve entered?

Oh lord, I had better order a new broom for Druids. I can see it being a busy weekend :)

Steady Stephen !......think i may stand up there for the Kents then !

I dare say there will be the profusion of Kents littering the gravel traps at Paddock Hill and Druids if past years are anything to go by!

Have any of you drivers been given a certificate for coming off at Druids in past Festivals? WE normally produce certificates and car stickers especially for the occasion :)

I'm not entered. Couldn't make it in the end. But its the aim for next year. I'm really glad to see a bit of a revival in the 1600's.

I think they provide the better racing and spectacle of the two as well.

Well Mr Green I hope not to be visiting you at Druids. as long as everyone remembers first lap is always a bit slower then the rest of them and they may actually have to brake a bit earlier, we should be ok, I cant see anyone forgetting and making a move up the inside of Druids half on the grass and taking 5 people out. then again.........

Originally posted by alfaman

And the name Jonathan McGall jumps out ... can that be the same on who used to race in top line FF1600 in the 80s?


Yes it is, and I believe he's driving the same car :)

Now I wasn't going to go Saturday, but the VAT can wait :D

Is there a timetable anywhere?

Originally posted by Nordic
Is there a timetable anywhere?

http://www.brscc-se.co.uk/races/timefffest02.pdf

anyone else getting excited yet ?

yep :D

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
http://www.brscc-se.co.uk/races/entries19oct.pdf
The first link is Festival only; the secon one has the support entry.
Thanks for that. Looking forward to finally getting to watch a Formula Zip race. I know it might not be great, but I want to check it out.

That's one hell of a field. Wish I was out!

Dare I suggest Matt Rivett to win it....

If I was putting money on it, I'd go for Rivett as well.

Now Matt, no pressure. None at all. ;)

thanks a lot you two!! gonna be a cracking race some proper fast people doing it and I guess some that have done a lot more at Brands then me, should be good though, I have been talking to people from the "good old days" when it was kents only and 8 heats per driver sounded awsome!! shame its not like that anymore,

I say get rid of the zetecs and bring back the kents!!

Matt

Originally posted by RacerX
That's one hell of a field. Wish I was out!

Me too, now that would be fun!
(But my license expired 3 years ago so I don't think I'll be out :) )

Originally posted by mattray
I say get rid of the zetecs and bring back the kents!

Couldn't agree more, have raced both, for me, Kent was and always will be the best :)

its also a bigger field then the Zetecs. we have 60 cars entered and the Zetecs 58!

So Mr Rivett, can you do it for us? Perhaps we can start some betting... would love to race you again but the old girl isn't up to it, and I don't want to spend the race looking at your rear end!

From what I remember you're pretty handy around there...

Apart from Matt theres a lot of names that are good and more that I dont recognise, who else is a front runner and capable of giving Matt a run for his money. David Male, Gavin Wills (is that the same that is the ex combe champ?) who else?

looks like tomorrow will be wet, sat dry and sun in between. not good if testings different to race day. nice and warm too at 11 oC, might bring my shorts.

it's the festival.
it's going to rain no matter what ;)

true
true

I notice Mr Wills is out in his 94 Kent winning Swift, I wonder if he can do it again. What other former winners are out there? get ready for some desperate driving - luckily Im being Godfather up in Debyshire so should be just out of reach of the debris !!

So who are the top 5 FF favourites then in 1) Zetec and b) Kents?

Will MST have results on their site today? or is there somewhere that I can get up-to-date info as the day passes by? Any official test times?

i thought formula world.com was providing live timing etc .

Times are on MST as per (strangely only the Zetecs so far and none of the support formulae that should by now have qualified).

Westley Barber, Richard Goransson and Jan Heylen have claimed pole for the three heats. As far as I know these should only settle grid positions for the semis: only 54 cars qualified which I think (?) is fewer than double than what is on the track licence.

Originally posted by Paul Rayner
Come on, UCLAN Racing!!!
I am so proud of my University!!!

A big congratulations to Dave Fricker, and all the students from the University of Central Lancashire involved in running the UCLAN Racing team, winners of the "Kent to do King of Kents 2002!"

This weekend was my first taste of watching proper FF1600 racing, and I totally understand when people say that racing was much better in the old days, before the Zetecs! What an absolutely brilliant bunch of races!

King of Kents is what FF racing is all about. Good racing, plenty of action and close. Mind you the Historics produced some fantastic racing as well. Enjoyed both of thse more than the Zetecs.

I'm just wondering if that's the first time anyone has *ever* been proud of University of Central Lancs! Well done to Dave Fricker - a surprise winner indeed.

Bet he's well chuffed! Just shows people how exciting and unpredictable FF can be.Good weekend racing apart from some poor driving which spoilt it for some. Spose you have to expect it at this level. Alot of people have commented on have the kents were proper racing with some great overtakes. I know I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend and meet lots of friendly people.

that Kent final was just plain awesome !...

the crowd at Paddock Hill Bend was shouting there heads off as the racing was just so competetive !...God knows how many lost it at paddock in the gravel only to make it back out again , wheel to wheel ...at one point they came in 5 wide into Paddock !....
i just laughed my head off in amazement !

superb .

I would also like to offer many congratulations to my old sparring partner from last season, well done Dave Fricker! His car control and consistent speed dominated the Kent final giving him a well earned win.

How the hell did he get away without hitting the wall?

Pic 2:

You'll have to download and watch the video to get the real "whoooaaaaa he was lucky" effect :)

Click here to download the video. (http://www.lynxdvd.co.uk/brands1.zip)

MPEG1, any Windows Media Player can play it.

Shame I couldn't have been in it it pretty much summed up my year I guess, was good to only be 2 tenths off David Male (in the 01 Van Diemen) in the heat though having not been to the circuit for 2 years and not tested.

well done to Dave F though he seemed to just get his head down and drive away from the others, staying out of trouble was a bonus as well!!

Matt

Matt, was that you that Gavin shoved into the pitwall?

Originally posted by Ian-S
How the hell did he get away without hitting the wall?

from where we were sitting it looked like he just glanced it , as the were slight marks along it afterwards....

that must have been SAVE OF THE WEEKEND !.....the crowd at paddock hill grandstand were all aplauding

...great pics Ian !

:beer:

great invention those conveyor belts :)

Ian....good video link .

just downloaded it ....cheers !

no worries, got plenty more, just not enough bandwidth :(

That's our boy Victor Gibson - he got a round of applause from the marshals at the post for that one. The general consensus seems to be that because there are no real gravel traps at Kirkistown, he didn't know he was supposed to get beached and stop! :p

Oh that explains it all, any other person would have jumped on the brakes and come to visit me, but no, he's gotta keep his foot in and drive across the gravel like it's a trip to the shops

:D

that was funny ....save of the day !

Have to say that for me, the Kents were the race of the weekend. Oh for the FFF of old, hundreds of Kents popping and banging their way around Brands.

New for next year will be parking tickets given out at Druids. After around 5 years the certificates are running a little thin. We reckon anyone who 'pops in' should be given a parking ticket informing them that if their car is still in our gravel after 3 laps it will be clamped! :):):)

Hi Ian yes that was me being driving into the wall!

I am glad there was so much support for the kents how about a national championship with a small amount of rounds that dont clash with local chmpionships??

Matt

Good idea Mattray. By the way, I was the observer on the exit to Druids, shame we didn't get to meet!

Originally posted by Ian-S
How the hell did he get away without hitting the wall?
Sato's right
he did'nt get away with it - Pinki and I were at the top of paddock - post 3 and thought he had got away with it, but our man on the spot at the bottom of paddock is 100% certain he did clip the tyre wall.

it was a shame your not wrong! the atmosphere of the crowds for the kent races was so good compared to the zetecs propper racing!!

Where are all the juniors/regional zetecs.
If they came out there could have been more like 80 to 90 entries which would have been much better.
How about a special clubbie award fro the best finisher in a 2 or 3 year old car etc?

ahhh Mr Ewing I was wondering when you would start to stick up for the dying breed of Zetecs, Surely this proves they are just too expensive?! Maybe all the regional/junior except a few thought the competition would be too fierce given the amount of testing and speed they would have compared to them.

for a 30min test session during the week, of which a zetec driver would need a lot of to be fast was £50 how many club racers can afford that??

Matt

Not just sticking up for Mattray, I was disappointed there were so few.
Is it the licence status (Int'l?) or that they think they can't win which would be a real shame.
For me, just saying you competed is an accomplishment.
I am certainly not anti-FF1600 (having owned more of them than Zetecs) and the King of Kents wa sa fantastic race. In fact one of my old cars was in the final.

National FF1600 series - sounds like the old SuperClassics which (sadly) died out.

My ideal (and realistic) Festival would be four heats of Zetecs and four heats of Kents and tell the Zips, T-cars and saloons to feck off!

The whole of pro FF (Zetec) is rather sick but I don't think it's to do with the engine - the whbole car has become too complex. Go back to non-adjustable dampers, or even spec damper/springs and harder or treaded tyres and bingo - sorted...

Well said Mr Ewing. Kents and Zetecs and ban those ghastly Zip thingies...arghhhh so ugly.

What the hell was Barry Lee doing driving one at the back of the field?

Originally posted by mattray
Hi Ian yes that was me being driving into the wall!

I am glad there was so much support for the kents how about a national championship with a small amount of rounds that dont clash with local chmpionships??

Matt

Did Gav really try and put you in the wall? my he must have become "BobHiggins-esque" in his old age! all those years at Combe learning off the master see.... whats a good Kent lap these days at Brands?

Originally posted by ghinzani
whats a good Kent lap these days at Brands?

one where you only drive through one gravel trap per lap ?

as for the Zips......i agree they are bloody ugly things , but still were quite entertaining watch going around Paddock in the wet .

The Kents were just a pure joy to watch though .

Zips were more like a destruction derby! Still have no idea what Barry Lee was doing driving one of the monstrocities?

My idea for 'national' FF1600 was to standardise the class structures and regulations across the various regional championships, get the regional championships done and dusted by early September then have a series of National play-offs in the autumn months, one held at each region. So you'd probably have rounds at Oulton, Mallory, Brands and Combe.

The top six (say) drivers from each class in each series would automatically go through, so there'd be two races at each 'play off', one per class. There could also be a couple more races for any drivers who didn't make it into the top six, just for fun; if any of the top six didn't want to compete then the 7th, 8th etc place finishers would be invited along.

Each of the regional series would run eight 15 or 20-minute rounds. However, drivers could also count points in up to four races in other regions, provided they declared first that they were going for points in that race (not just fun). That gives you twelve scoring opportunities, but you'd be allowed to drop your two lowest scores.

A bit complicated I admit but I think it could add a bit more to club level FF1600 racing. What does anyone else think?

Yes he did try and put me in the wall, seemed a bit mad but I haven heard anyone else say a good thing about the man and it's not unusual for him apparently, his comment afterwards was "sorry your upset about it Matt but to be honest I dont give a fu**" so to race against a person who doesnt care if he crashes is a bit of a worry, may have to fill the nose with Foam me thinks for our next encounter:)

I think a good Kent lap is in the 50's I would have thought low 50's.

and JR I agree with you!! its the "FORMULA FORD" festival not the "formula ford and a bit of other rubbish thrown in to fill some time festival" innit!!

Aso I ought to point out that the national champ wasnt my idea it got mentioned to me and I thought I would see what the opionion on here would be.

Blimey Ian that sounds like a lot of racing!!:)

Matt

When I were a young lad, there was a national kent championship for club racers (mid 90's) but it only lasted a couple of years because nobody could afford to drive to Knockhill for 10 laps.

Does any club level FFord championship give prize money now?

About Gavin, sounds like he hasn't changed, I hear he was clapping his hands even before you two had stopped, should've kept your foot in for a bit longer and driven him across the line :)

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Still have no idea what Barry Lee was doing driving one of the monstrocities?
That makes two of us. Surely it wasn't THE Barry Lee. Alas I didn't get the opportunity to get to the paddock to confirm.

that makes 3 of us ......and im sure it was the Barry Lee..as im sure they said something to that effect over the commentry.

Originally posted by Sato san
that makes 3 of us ......and im sure it was the Barry Lee..as im sure they said something to that effect over the commentry.

It was the Barry Lee, well he looked like him and had a fag in his hand :).

He is an old friend of Martin Hines and has raced the Zip's before, I think he got a call during the week asking him to make up the numbers like he did last time :)

(I think he did the first zip race of the season this year didn't he?)

****, double post.

I think it was THE Barry Lee. He did a race earlier in the year, was quoted as saying he enjoyed it and wanted to do more.

Matt,

I've been thinking more about my above 'proposal' and there is scope to do a lot of races in my grand plan (you could probably do 52 - at least one every weekend from March to October - if you wanted). I've thought of a few ideas to keep costs relatively low yet encourage good entries. I think it could work and I'd like to see it put into practice (possibly with some fine tuning). If anyone wants to see my ideas, drop me a PM...

In reply to where were the club Zetec drivers due to a date clash the 750 Zetec drivers were at Snetterton on Sat. and the Scottish lads were pounding round Knockhill. Last year the 750 round clashed and we all complained but apparently the 750MC had their fixtures out before BRSCC. Licences are not a problem as it has now been downgraded to Nat A status.I would have been there if it wasn't for the clash, last year was the first Festival I had not competed in since 1984, I really miss the atmosphere and the social scene.The only positive note this year was our 750 meeting double header took place on Sat. and we managed to get down to spectate on Sun.

Ian,

The only way to kep the costs down would be to limit the amount of races and spread them out over the year, this way we could save up between races and maybe even be able to afford to test prior to every race. nothing worse then having to find the money (usually via a credit card) to sub the next race entry fees having not recovered from the cost of the previous race if you see what I mean.

Other Ian, the last thing I wanted to do was keep my foot in to get him over the line, it would have meant he would have been in the final and I was half into his cockpit anyway so I was a bit worried about taking his head off.

Matt

Out of interest, how many races/meetings would you like to see in a year? Six? Ten? 16? Would you prefer single or double-headers? Or maybe longer races?

There seem to be a number of competitors who do something (or try to) most weekends and those who can only make it out once or month or so.

By co-ordinating the regional calendars, a driver could choose to focus on one, two or maybe even three championships...

Originally posted by mattray

Other Ian, the last thing I wanted to do was keep my foot in to get him over the line, it would have meant he would have been in the final and I was half into his cockpit anyway so I was a bit worried about taking his head off.

Matt

Ah yes, I see now :)

excuse me for butting in on the other conversation, but I would like to see a return to prize money being awarded.

When I raced in FFord, I lived in Surrey but raced in the Star of Mallory, I was asked why the festival was my only race on my "home" track by the local radio and my answer was because there was prize money at Mallory and none at Brands, this paid for the entry and fuel to the next race if I were in the top three, during the year I only ever paid one entry fee for the first race and the rest were paid from prize money, the cost of running the car at each circuit was the same because the team were in Cambridge, so in the end it came down to wonga.

Double headers were fun though :)

Originally posted by Bodysnatcher
Sato's right
he did'nt get away with it - Pinki and I were at the top of paddock - post 3 and thought he had got away with it, but our man on the spot at the bottom of paddock is 100% certain he did clip the tyre wall.

erm, he got away with it, believe me, I've been in that wall and it hurts, so in my eyes, he got away with it :)

yes , he did get a way with it , but yes he did touch the barrier too...

great stuff though .

bloody lucky if you ask me :D

Ian,

I think only a small mumber of meetings would be good like maybe 5 or 6 double headers. A mail has been sent to the BRSCC about it all we k=need is some support from other FF1600 racers.

this is the guy to write to:

John Ward

BRSCC Competitions Manager
35 Kings Hill Avenue,
West Malling,
Kent,
ME19 4RR
England
P 0044 (0) 1732 848884
F 0044 (0) 1732 848989

if enough interest is shown then maybe this can get done!

Matt

That sounds like a good idea. Would the calendar be arranged so that these races took place on weekends when there was no regional FFord, or maybe at meetings that included regional FFord.

I'd definitely be keen to see this get off the ground.

You would have no shortage of marshals to help, that much I am sure of!

There would be no shortage of marshalls needed I would have thought as well!!:)

plenty of spectators too !

as it said in the mail I sent you Ian it would be best if it didnt clash with regional rounds so people could afford to do every round if they wanted.

People need to realise that if there is a regional round as well as an invitational round at a circuit the entry fees for the 2 is in excess of £300!

Ian S the prize money at Combe was 150 for a win and then 100 then 70 right down to 10th place which was pretty good but t didnt reflect the rise in entry fees which went up to 165 but dont want to get this onto a disscusion about entry fees.

My personal opinion about this proposed championships entry fees would be too raise them a bit to pay for some promotion, this way the popularity of it would be higher and getting sponsors would be easier.

any ideas?

Matt

I think gaining full grids for a national championship would be very difficult, after all we are club drivers, with club budgets. Perhaps an idea would be to incorporate the championship within the existing regional championships. This worked very well in a championship I competed in when I was kart racing.

This would have to be cleared with all regional championship co-coordinators although I can't see that being a problem-after all it will bring more drivers to their championship and they all want bigger grids. Those drivers competing in the national series will not only be competing against each other but regular regional championship drivers not in the national championship in the same race. The chance to race for 2 lots of trophies would therefore be possible. The only problem I would see would be too many drivers for one grid, but I think the North-West series is introducing a knock out scheme next year to counter this problem so at least at Oulton I don’t think it would be a problem. I don't see there being any opposition from those drivers just competing in the regional championship because I’m sure most of them will enjoy the challenge of new drivers visiting as it is always a recipe to shake the pecking order up a bit.

You will have the problem of the possibility of a national championship driver being taken out by just a regional driver and thus wrecking their championship hopes, but this is a situation I guess you have at Combe and we will have in the north-west series next year. I think the champion at the end of the day will be a true national champion as he has gone out and raced all the best FF club drivers in the country including those who do not have the funds/time to compete in a national series.

I hope that all makes sense, what do you think? Obviously it needs a bit more thinking about but cost wise etc. I think it is a viable option, as you may only get 6/7 drivers who can compete in all the rounds.

it makes sence goughy but as I said it kind of forces all the fast people to do both the races wihch pushes the cost up to double the entry fee. I know if I am racing and there is say a southern race at Combe where we have a Combe race, I feel I have to do it if another front runner is doing it which makes it too expensive! or at least I did, I dont bother now, cant afford it!!

if its kept away from the regional races the regional people can have the choice to make up the numbers if necessary in the national champ and the national runners can concentrate on that championship.

Matt

Matt, the idea is that the national series takes place within the same regional race, not have separate races for both championships.

So if the national series comes to Oulton you compete in the same race as the rest of the north-west drivers. Again coordinators would need to be talked to cos there are 2 options. Either visiting national drivers have to pay the regional championship registration fee. This means a national driver can score not only national points but also regional points for that series, which also means the chance to score in effect two podium finishes. The 2nd option coordinators will wavier the fee, hence you score only national points within the regional race.

Stuart

Ahh I see what you mean,

I would prefere to have a seperate championship though to be honest, it would be less confusing for the crowds, easier to promote in its own right and less complicated in the event of a regional championship having a full grid as it is at Combe.

Getting full grids may not be a problem because it could be used as an affordable alternative to Zetec for younger drivers to learn a bit of car racing. also if it were run away from regional champs the regional drivers could do the national champ if they wanted.

Matt, let me know of any developments then. However it is run, the basic idea of having a national series sounds great.

how about you write a letter of support to the above address to help things along, the more support the better!!!

many thanks

Matt

By The Way I like your web page!! :)

Yeah, it was good at the start of the year, but its not been updated for ages and also I'm not to sure about the flash into. I think flash intros are a bit of a waste of time now.

I do want a new site or the exisiting one revised for next season. The guy who did mine is really good but hes far too busy to update things like the photo gallery, I don't have a clue how to do it!

Who does your web page?

I'll prob write to the BRSCC, do you have an e-mail address for John Ward?

john.ward@brscc.co.uk

A sponsor did mine its part of the Newsquest group http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk really good people to deal with it was sort of a tie in with Castle Combe and the Wiltshire gazette and Newsquest.

goughy - updating websites isn't a major exercise - if you need a hand getting to grips with it, drop me a PM and let me know what you're trying to do and I'll give whatever help I can.

Matt,

Got the Noth-west formula ford newsletter today and it had some info from john ward about FF next season. Basically he was asking us to let him know if we want to compete in a national series next year over 6 rounds as it could be a possibility. He also mentioned his doubts over this ever working though as he had been tried a while ago without much success. i'll guess we will have to wait and see.

Be interesting to see what John Ward actually wrote. Did he emphasise that it would be arranged not to clash with regional races and could be seen as either an 'instead of' or an 'as well as'?

If it does go ahead, and I get the pay rise I'm supposed to in January I'd be extremely tempted to try and get my licence and join in the fun!

i have left the newsletter at work, so when I bring it home i'll post what it says.

All sounds a great idea, and i'm certain keen on it and would race in the series. Will support the proposal by Jon Adlam.
Ian, I tried to download the link on page 2 but it wont work. Apparently im on it too! be keen to see it if i can somehow?

Originally posted by RMR
All sounds a great idea, and i'm certain keen on it and would race in the series. Will support the proposal by Jon Adlam.
Ian, I tried to download the link on page 2 but it wont work. Apparently im on it too! be keen to see it if i can somehow?

Ian as in me?

I've just tried the link and it works now, it's a server we don't use much so maybe DNS was having a bit of trouble :)

Which one are you?

Im 53, the red Van Diemen. apparently i'm there somewhere. Link does work but the file is an invalid one. Not a DNS issue, maybe you have a different file zipping standard? im winzip 8

Are you guys at Brands this weekend?

no plans to be at Brands this weekend Stephen.

saw the video Richard, you are just in the shot as the car emerges out of the gravel you would have to know its you to know its you though if you see what I mean!

I have just writen to John Ward any others done so yet?

Originally posted by RMR
Im 53, the red Van Diemen. apparently i'm there somewhere. Link does work but the file is an invalid one. Not a DNS issue, maybe you have a different file zipping standard? im winzip 8

It was zipped with winzip 8, I'll have another look at it.

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Are you guys at Brands this weekend?

Don't think so, looks a good clubbie though.

Will be there for the others though.