Everyday Classic

I have seen quite a few classics beibg driven about lately and Melanie (MY Daughter) and I were saying what qwe would like to have as an everyday usable classic.
Me I would like a Morris Minor Traveller in Blue or white.
Melanie wants a Frogeye Sprite.
anyone else have a favourite?:D :rotate:

Morris Minor / Mini / most old Austin/Rover/BMC cars, Fiat 500.

Rover 3500 P6.

I had a blue 1973 one once upon a time, and it was one of the most pleasant cars I've ever driven.

I would have another in an instant.

Originally posted by TimD
Rover 3500 P6.

I had a blue 1973 one once upon a time, and it was one of the most pleasant cars I've ever driven.

My dad had one which I used to borrow. I'll never forget how much a certain young lady enjoyed that car. Must have been the leather upholstery. ;)

I currently drive my 1965 MGB on my daily 100 miles round trip to work.

Volvo Amazons are indestructable. My Dad boiled an engine and ran it for 10,000miles before realising it!

My current collection:
1966 Morris 1100 (my everyday car)
1987 Ford Falcon (my wifes everday car)
1976 Ford F100 (tow car)
1986 Ford Econoline E350 (rare in Aus)
1972 Holden Kingswood (race car)
1968 Morris Cooper S (needs restoring)
1978 Leyland Mini 1275 LS (half restored)
1985 Austin Montego (may be the only one in Aus)

Aussie Montego, eh? Any chance of some pics? We're trying to build an photo archive of all the Maestro and Montego models. How would you like to be the only Aus member of the Montego and Maestro Owners Club? :)

That's torn it! There's no escape for you now, Morrie!

AND he has Min-Mins - a man of very good taste :)

Mk2 Cortina 1600E
Mk1 Cortina 2door, with tweaked 1700 crossflow

both these share my 65 mile daily work trip, as well as LeMans, and Spa trips this year to boot

also have a MK1 GT in bits to build and race

Good choice too :)

Maisie,
My Montego is a 1.3 Poverty model (no options) it was imported by a woman that bought it in England and then imigrated to Aus in 1988 and bought it with her, she drove the car until 1998 when she had a couple of little accidents with it and then left the car sitting.
Last month she advertised it "free to good home" and I drove 700km to pick it up and another 700km to tow it home!

Originally posted by Morris 1100
Maisie,
My Montego is a 1.3 Poverty model (no options) it was imported by a woman that bought it in England and then imigrated to Aus in 1988 and bought it with her, she drove the car until 1998 when she had a couple of little accidents with it and then left the car sitting.
Last month she advertised it "free to good home" and I drove 700km to pick it up and another 700km to tow it home!

Sad, very very sad

Why sad? :)

Morris, if you want any mods for the car, like electric bits etc, they're dead easy to fit, and I could source the parts for you easily...

one (wo)mans trash is another (wo)mans treasure

Im just glad my vice is an Old Ford one ;-)

I had a mate who swore by his Montego. He used to get out and say things like !"£$%^g start you B!"£$%D. ;)

ha ha, we used to have a diesel turbo Montego as a pool car

we called it the tractor, because it drove like one . . . .

it was the first turbo car I drove though ;-)

Okay, here's a defence of Montegos. I used to work for a Rover dealership when the last of the Montegos were rolling off the production line, and they were getting increasingly tricky to sell, so I've driven a lot....!

Last week, I tried a 2002 Vauxhall Vectra 1.8SXi, the much-vaunted "new piece of thinking". I can honestly say it was more sluggish, less engaging, and felt less well screwed together than the G-reg Montegos I drove on a daily basis. That new Vectra is a serious step back in my opinion from the pleasant driving machine that was - for example - a 2 litre Mk3 Cavalier.

So there.

Tim . . .Ive not driven the new vectra, but have been sufficiently scared in the wet by all the other models.

I dont recall the montego being a particularly bad drive, as long as it wasnt competition performance you where after, it got you from A-b ok

still a pig ugly grandad car though, Im suprised to see one in blue as well, I thought they only made them in Uncle Reg brown and werthers original beige, with biscuit interiors of course. :-)

Tim: there is no defence for Montegos. I had a maroon one for a short while - it cruised okay after you'd wound it up but the steering was a bit agricultural: it failed its MOT due to a fuel leak from the engine ...

My ex-boss had one too - he always reckoned it was a good thing it had a heated rear window, as it kept his hands warm while he pushed it.

Having crossed swords with Maisie on the subject of Maestro's and Montego's in another thread, (and subsequently bumped into her in real life) :( I would urge you to give it up gentlemen :)

As for myself, I would be partial to a Reliant Scimitar GTC SE8 :rotate:

I let you live, didn't I? What more do you want? :)

Ive been thinking about a scimitar for sometime now . . . .fuel economy isnt great though, even worse than my Cortina @ 23mpg

sounds good and fast though :-)

on similar vein what abt Sabre Six? I am interested in knowing more abt these cars - are they quick and fun to drive?

Fiat 124 Spider, just restored one. I have a FIAT 127 that is now a motorkhana car (hence my 903cc name) but fun to have on the road. But I imagine in the UK an MG would be a perfect everyday driver particularly a B or Midget just for the availability of parts etc. You can basically build a new B now by going to the parts shop.

Originally posted by Maisie
I let you live, didn't I? What more do you want? :)
Typical Race Official you just can't rely n the to get punishments right!!!!!

Originally posted by Ian Smith
Typical Race Official you just can't rely n the to get punishments right!!!!!

Or the spelling, Ian :p

Can I just say that our MG Maestro that we are using in the East Mids Road Rally championship is giving us great service. Typically, I drive it to and from work all week, then at the weekend I wash it and kick the tyres, thrash it to the start venue of a road rally, hammer it all night long for 110+ miles of narrow bumpy lanes, then cane it home. Then it carries on taking me to work all week.

It's done this for a year, now, and I'm hoping for another year out of it.

Originally posted by neilwaynesmith
Or the spelling, Ian :p

OK you can mock but I have dyslexic fingers OK.:banghead:

:rolleyes: even this was the 4th draft:laugh:

Any pics, heebee?

Just had an e mail from a mate who tells me "I've just bought myself a new toy. A Bentley Turbo R." (Calm down Tim) He reckons he needs to keep working to pay for the gas. :)

I couldnt afford one of those If I sold my house!

heres one of mine . . . . . .

Originally posted by Morris 1100
My current collection:
1966 Morris 1100 (my everyday car)
1987 Ford Falcon (my wifes everday car)
1976 Ford F100 (tow car)
1986 Ford Econoline E350 (rare in Aus)
1972 Holden Kingswood (race car)
1968 Morris Cooper S (needs restoring)
1978 Leyland Mini 1275 LS (half restored)
1985 Austin Montego (may be the only one in Aus)

An impressive list Morrie (the Cooper S sounds interesting...MkI or II?}

Now, when are you coming down again to take the 1100 out of my backyard to make way for a Mini!!:beer:

Seeing as we are all dreaming here, Volvo 123GT would be nice but I would love my particular model of old Ferrari (sigh):rolleyes: truly a thing of beauty (bellisimo! malto simpatico!)

For me the 250 GT SWB ids the only Ferrari.

agreed Peter . . . .

heres the other Dagenham dustbin . . . .

Lovely :)

Well talking of everyday classics then I put forward the mark 2 VW Golf - in my opinion the perfect car. Sure they are everywhere but thats simply as they are so good.

Pre airflow. Almost unique.

The Cortina was the car which changed Britain's attitude to motoring. The Mini was a design masterpiece but for all round comfort and style Ford's Cortina was it.

I was never a fan of the pre airflow before, but now Ive found a solid 2 door one, I love it . . . . .shame it was an auto and the dash boards been butchered badly . . . .otherwise the shell would be worth more than the car to the right person . . . .with a totalled lotus!

still for less than £2k Ive got a 120+ BHP sideways fun machine, which reminds me I must put the roll cage in it :-)

And then from Germany came the car that made all others inferior. Golf 2 did nothing new and didn't look particularly special, however it did everything well, and still does. For performance there were the two GTis and for balls out evoness (although it never went RHD) there was the supercharged G60. And all out power just read VR6. The Golf is a true classic but is not appreciated as there are just sooo many of them. How often do you see a rusty golf?

my dad had a MK1 GTI . . . .he loved it . . . . .until he rolled it into a ditch and wrote it off because some **** in a beamer came round the corner on thew wrong side of the road!

**** brakes apparently

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
For me the 250 GT SWB ids the only Ferrari.

Yep, another classic, terrific design.

The Mk1 was inferior to the mark 2, the mark 2 simply took out all the gremlins and had them shot. And thats the only real difference. apart from power. Its a real classic but not recognised yet.

Does a 1983 Granada count as a Classic?
Some of the Triumph clubs call their cars 'Affordable Classics' and they sure do have a point when you can pick up a perfectly good Dolomite for a few hundred quid, perhaps even Dolomite Sprint, or the humble Toledo, these were the forerunners of the Maestro and Mondeo.... (ducks to avoid heavy objects...!)

In thirty years time, will we have classic car magazinea running restoration projects on Mk3 Mondeo's?

Originally posted by neilwaynesmith
In thirty years time, will we have classic car magazinea running restoration projects on Mk3 Mondeo's?

There's already a club for them and well done too. Best road car I ever owned was my Si with the trick bits. ;)

I won't let the mundano become a classic

why not?

A car that is so totally forgettable and so amazingly unimportant and generally dull should never become a classic, what next the Vectra!!!? Sorry I think not. Even an 83 Granada has more classic-ness.

You people are all masochists. I love having a classic car to play with on weekends, but for everyday driving to work and long driving holidays, I'll have a brand spanker thanks, something common and stock standard, so easy.

Originally posted by ss_collins
A car that is so totally forgettable and so amazingly unimportant and generally dull should never become a classic, what next the Vectra!!!? Sorry I think not. Even an 83 Granada has more classic-ness.

I agree about the Vectra but you miss a big point. The Mondeo is truly a world class car. The dynamic "chassis" and the level of comfort provided by even the most basic model is certainly a good mark in its favour. The Vectra tried to follow and as far as I can tell still doesn't achieve what the Ford has.

Not a classic as yet but it deserves respect.

The Golf was another car to break a mould.

Nobody's mentioned Triumphs...They're ace.

I had a spitfire for 3 years as a 'daily driver' and it was fine, always managed to get home in it. (it's now a race car)

And we also have a TR2 which, although it doesn't get used daily, is dead reliable due to it's tractor engine, comfortable and fast (100 mph+) It also hardly uses any fuel...

I'd reccomend a classic car as a daily driver to anyone, most of them have a cheap source of ready available parts, many require no road tax (pre '72), easy to service and maintain yourself and more fun to drive than any modern car.

A friend of mine loves Triumphs, I asked him if there was ever a more inappropriately named car. He wasn't amused. :)

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I agree about the Vectra but you miss a big point. The Mondeo is truly a world class car. The dynamic "chassis" and the level of comfort provided by even the most basic model is certainly a good mark in its favour. The Vectra tried to follow and as far as I can tell still doesn't achieve what the Ford has.

Not a classic as yet but it deserves respect.

The Golf was another car to break a mould.

The Mondeos over here have a dreadful reputation Ford dealers couldn't even give them away. But the Vectra has been extremly popular and the y have sold out of the current batch

Ok so even a vectra has more claim to be a classic than a mondy, The Golf broke the mould made another one and broke it again, It will be a classic. The Vectra and the Mondy never will, especially if something as interesting as an Austin princess isn't a classic. Triumphs are classics.

Originally posted by Richy_Rich
Nobody's mentioned Triumphs...They're ace.


Me!! I did! :D -back on page two!!

We've got a Vincent Hurricane which is a Spit with a glassfibre body. It was in daily use until 7 years ago- now it gets to live in a garage and only comes out for good long runs (such as Le Mans Classic- that was a good very long run!!) and it gets to dring nice proper leadded petrol!
It dosn't get taken off the road for the winter, just in case we fancy a cold blast through the snowy landscape (we've got a hood, but I can't remember when I last used it..)

I'd agree that if I go out on site, and travel 100's of miles a new (hire or company) car is more practical, less tiring and more economic, but for the standard 30 miles trip, with a multiple choice on country lanes in either direction, the Cortina wins hands down

also, free tax, sub £200 PA insurance with unlimited milage for two cars, fully comp including breakdown recovery, and sub £50 for a full service is hard to beat.

I'd agree that if I go out on site, and travel 100's of miles a new (hire or company) car is more practical, less tiring and more economic, but for the standard 30 miles trip, with a multiple choice on country lanes in either direction, the Cortina wins hands down

and that is the difference between a classic and a nothing car.

I drive a 1952 MGTD replica (factory built in 1975) as a "daily driver" when the weather is right (not too hot or cold, or in really heavy rain). Usually that means it's on the road pretty solidly for several months a year. For Sunday drives and shows I drive an MGB (insurance dictates I drive it only as a show car or to club events, I'm looking for another MG as a daily driver):

http://1903.sytes.net/mgdis1a.jpg
http://www.aerog.com/rem/PC123165x.JPG

We saw an MG replica very similar to yours in Naples Fl last March- I think the one we saw had VW indicator lights on the wings but apart from that it was the same. How many of them do you know of?

Originally posted by Bluebottle
We saw an MG replica very similar to yours in Naples Fl last March- I think the one we saw had VW indicator lights on the wings but apart from that it was the same. How many of them do you know of?

There are bunches around. The company that made this one started off in 1975 here in Daytona, everything was locally produced. The replica isn't perfect, but the dimensions are nearly the same as a 'TD with a lot of original MG hardware and Lucas lights. In the early '80s they sold the rights to the car to another company, who redesigned parts of the car and made it nearly a perfect replica - and sold quite a few cars both as fully built and kit cars.

By the way, this car is nearly pure 1969 VW Type-1 (Beetle). The gear-shift was moved back, the steering column extended, and an additional pushrod added to the brake master-cylinder to accomodate the seat placement.

http://www.aerog.com/rem/PC210082sm.JPG

The Golf a classic?????

[I seem to remember a similar statement in the Alfa Romeo digest, so I might steal a few comments from there too]

I'd almost tend to put the Golf in the same category as the Mondeo and Vectra..... VW simply followed the trend. What trend you ask? If you look at most affordable small modern cars - not luxury cars or sports cars, what do they have in common???

Front Wheel Drive.
Transverse mounted 4 stroke engine.
gearbox mounted end-on (NOT gearbox-in-sump like a Mini).
Overhead camshaft in an alloy cylinder head driven by a toothed belt.

The Fiat 127 and 128 designs (128 was introduced in 1969) had all these things and proved the concept that the others followed. What did the later cars such as the Golf have that the 127/128 didn't? Better build quality maybe, more distribution channels in more countries, but there was nothing new in the basic design.

The Golf, Mondeo, Vectra etc are simply an update of the Fiat 127/128 design concept..... there's a lot of refinement and clever marketing to make you think there have been big advances since 1969, but there haven't.

The Fiat 127/128 are classics in the way the others will never be.

Alfa, what you say is spot on, but you're missing one important point. The VW Golf was the first to put all of the those features together in something big enough to actually be called, a car. Their miniscule dimensions prevented the Fiat 128, from being a big seller or even being taken seriuosly by car enthusiats and buyers alike. The golf had everything the Fiat had, plus it was practical and had reasonable performance.

Hmmmm, so the Mk 1 Golf gets to be a classic by virtue of being a bit "larger" than a 127/128.

I'm not sure about the Fiat lacking in performance, a friend had a 1300cc 128 and found plenty of perfomance if you were willing to rev the engine.

Of course, VW eventually introduced the GTI with a lot more performance, and maybe that one could be called a classic.

Hmm,

Whilst I agree with you in general, I still believe that unless you've actually driven a Mondeo you won't appreciate what Ford did. For a car of it's size it handles and performs extremely well. And as with all Fords it can be made to go much better with little cash outlay.

The Golf GTi was a great leap forward when it was introduced in 1976(?). I don't think you could put the Fiats in the same bracket. But in terms of concept then there's little difference. But that's my point. A good idea can be lost in its execution.

Well the Mondeo would have to be light years ahead of the company Vectra that I drive day to day.

There's a lot of people who say how much improved dynamics modern FWD cars have, but if you talk to someone who owned one of the original 1.2 or 1.3 Alfasud's in say 1972-1976 (the later ones were a wee bit softer), I'm not sure they'd agree.

Car's like 128 and the Alfasud were a great leap forward if you compare them to the junk that Ford were producing at the time - I used to drive a 1972 Escort, my next car was an Alfasud and a friend had the 128. There was simply no comparison.

You drive a Vectra? Poor you. ;)

thing about alfas its that living in england as i do they last about a day before collapsing into a pile of iron oxide.
I drove a mondy a few times but every time I'd wake up on the hard shoulder fast asleep. COS IT WAS SOO DULL.

I prefered the Sierra to the Mondeo at all the others . . . .at least they drove the right wheels

Im not a BMW fan at all, but I thought their advert with the diver with flippers on his hands was excellent, as was the speedboat with the outboard hanging of the front :)

far too much power assistance and numbing or the driving senses in new cars

grumble grumble :rotate:

The Sierra Cosworth. Yeees.

But (and I do stand to be corrected) there is a famous story about a racing driver who was being coached in a Mondeo. He is quoted as saying something like "I always thought these were front wheel drive". And that is my point about them. They really do handle well. At least mine does.

Ive had so many 'turtles heads' in FWD cars . . . .probably due to my lack of experience and confidence driving them, but in the wet, they just wont go round corners!

oversteer on the other hand is a pleasant/fun handling charecteristic

even if you do end up in the middle of the roundabout facing the wrong way occaisionally :)

its possible to get a front wheel drive car to oversteer, even in the wet. I've done it!

Originally posted by ss_collins
its possible to get a front wheel drive car to oversteer, even in the wet. I've done it!
Agreed, and you need to deal with it slightly differently than RWD power induced oversteer!!!

Most standard FWD cars are setup to understeer, but some, when at the limit (Alfasud, Peugeot 205, 106, 206, 306....), particulaly when on a trailing throttle, become more neutral and tend towards oversteer. The rear ends of these cars have quite reasonable roll resistance and also tend to lift the rear inside wheel.

http://autozine.kyul.net/Car_Photo/Peugeot/106_S16.jpg

For racing the tendency is to make the rear quite stiff indeed (e.g. rear anti roll bar) so that the car can get the power down in tight corners without spinning the inside front wheel. I'm sure if you drove a modern FWD SuperProduction car you would be able to find oversteer without too much trouble at all!!!

having spun my golf a few times I ccan tell you that on a trailing throttle often the rear wheel lifts or you get a rather unexpected imperssion of a pendulum, coram at lydden is the perfect palce to instigate this misbehaviour

hmmm . . .Ill have to conduct some tests on the next company/hire car I get my hands on ;)

a colleague here is getting rid of his Alfa spider GTV 3.0l thing . . .says he cant stand the bump steer of FWD . . . .I think paying a mortgage size insurance premium is another consideration though!

Originally posted by zefarelly
a colleague here is getting rid of his Alfa spider GTV 3.0l thing . . .says he cant stand the bump steer of FWD
Bump steer? Does he mean torque steer? That is true of many FWD's depending on design/development and power output.

The thing with the lift off oversteer is that some cars develop it in a progressive way, and others understeer, then snap into oversteer, which is not a good thing!!! Make sure you've got space for your testing!!!!!

yes, sorry, torque steer . . . . .agreed, the roundabout at the flyover in Shoreham is quite wide

not that I'd know as I always tootle round at 25mph :)

didnt the wombles do a song about this . . . .under steer, oversteer, sliding quite free, the drifters of Wimbledon common are we . . . . .

I'll get me coat ;)

I think we are missing the point about classics, A classic is anythink somebody cherishes and protects and when its old enough is called a classic. Lets face it who would have considered such cars as Austin/Morris 1100, 2CV's,Mk.1-2-3 or 4 Cortina's, Vauxhall Victors or Crestas Etc. Etc. at the time they were in production. Only time will tell.

I consider the Mk2 golf a modern classic.

interesting that the MOndeo came top of the list on Top gear last night . . . .beat the BMW round the track . . . .with FWD . . .in the wet

Yeah but dunsfold suits the mondeo, surrey - its mondeo man country so it was always going to go well.

ahh, I hadnt considered that . . . . .so what should I drive (if not cortinas) living in Sussex!

and whats a typical Crystal Palace car?

In sussex? a late model hatch or mummy and daddys bentley. Or if you are in Bexhill a ciroen Visa GTi, typical palace car? Golfs.

If Im forced into company car land, Im rooting for a Skoda Octavia RS

I wouldnt even consider driving anything on the current company list! (vauxhalls and the odd low end volvo)

Id have thought the CP boys'd be into R5 GT turbos too :)

dunno abnout Bentleys . . . . .too many 4x4's around though :(

that is true about the renualts many of the 'raiders' think that thier french sh*tboxes will out do richard burns in his WRC on any stage in the world. However Beckenham being a dull suburban area the golf is king. 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s GTis Cls, GLs, Drivers, the lot but the n it is an everyday classic!

we seem to jave our fair share of 'smokin' hot hatches

I have seen locally a hot hatch turbo smoke machine (mazda 323 perhaps?), obviously sprayed outside with rattle cans in electric blue (matt finish), the lad hasnt even masked the lights, just T-cutted the lenses after . . . . . .pure class