FIA 6 hours of Spa - Sept 9th and 10th.

I posted this in the Trackside Forum.


I highly recommend this weekend to anybody with a mild interest in good food, reasonable beer (hundreds of them) and great countryside. Oh and there's some excellent racing as well.

Practicing starts on the Friday 8th September. Racing starts on Saturday. Sunday has the 6 hours.

There's a Top Hat 1 hour race on the Saturday (I think) as well as the British Sports/Saloon Car Challenge. We usually start with a maximum grid.

Anybody going?

Pete,
I'm going.
I'm sharing the car with Jon Owen (CSCC Grp1 Rover SD1 driver).
We're doing the French and English 10 lap races and the 1 hour 2-driver race

That will give the car about 120 mins of practice (180miles)
and a similar amount of racing.

I anticpate the whole exercise will cost me about £1200 all in. This works out at about £3.50 per mile, or £7 per racing mile on one of the greatest circuits in the world.

Compared with racing at at Thruxton for example:
8 laps pratice, 9laps racing (they stopped it short this year!!! no money back!) 19 miles practice, 22 miles racing.
Entry £150, prep £250, travel £150, £13 per mile, or £25 per racing mile!

As UK is so expensive, (even without me hitting the scenery!) the races generally so short, Spa is fantastic value.
And the first time you see Eau Rouge as you drive onto the circuit through the gates at La Source...even before you actually drive it.... is something I will take to my grave!

Must get to Nurburg, Monza, P.Ricard, Catalunya

IanC

I'm just doing the British race this year.;)

Has the CSCC (or other) thought about running a 6 hour at, perhaps, Donington or Brands? There must be enough historic Cortinas and Minis and whatnot to make up a grid. And there must be many spectators that could not afford to make it to Spa (like me).

What is the additional expense,for you, of travelling to Spa compared with (say) Oulton Park? About thirty quids worth of petrol and a ferry fair. You can camp in the circuit for free. Ferry is very cheap for 4 people. So, I'm afraid Graham I don't buy the "cost" issue.;)

As far as racing is concerned Yelwoci made the point elsewhere that it is cheaper per mile to race at Spa than at any UK circuit.

As far as long distance races in the UK are concerned. Where would you rather go? To Spa where the noise restrictions and facilities are designed for long races or any UK circuit where they put curfews and "quiet times" on events other than FIA sanctioned International meetings.

£30 of petrol? The furthest track for me in the UK is about 250 miles, (Knockhill), Lydden, 200 miles. Spa 450 miles, (each way) plus ferry, so I would say the expense of Spa is more than £30.
Having said that, the 2 times I've been were well worth it.

I think I said additional cost Steve.

Which on that basis is good value because even a die hard Combe fan would come away with a totally different view of motor sport.

BTW. Fuel is about 20% cheaper in Belgium.;)

The cost of attending far off meetings is relative to how much you earn - you are a high or reasonably paid computer bloke are you not? I have less disposable income, and a lot less free time in large enough chunks to swan off to Belgium.

If it is cheaper per racing mile in Belgium, why is that so?

Graham,

"you are a high or reasonably paid computer bloke are you not? "

Guilty as Charged!

Spa is 4.5miles long you get 10 laps in both practice & race and they charge about £190 for the privilege.

Thruxton, for example and its one of the better ones, is 2.3miles, you get about 8 laps in practice and somtimes 10 in the race.

I make things even better by thrashing the car in every race I can enter it into, in an attempt to diminish the costs of insurance/ferry/fuel/hotel/food/beer/etc

IanC

Originally posted by Graham
.............. you are a high or reasonably paid computer bloke are you not?

NO

You miss the point of my previous responses young G man. If you share a car and split the cost of a ferry then its not much more than travelling around the UK to watch motorsport. Get yourself in with a team and you can hitch a lift which is even cheaper.

Come on man. Make an effort!!!;)

Graham,

While I hasten to add that I can't do Spa this year, because it clashes with Battle of Britain 60th anniversary events, a continental trip is really not an outrageous expense.

Last year, we did Le Mans for a ferry fare of £91 for a Ford Granada, three up. Fuel in France is a third cheaper than in the UK (Belgium is even better, I think), and the go anywhere ticket was thirty quid.

At the time I had no regular income, but I still managed to squeak the money together by putting a bit away. I'm as poor as a church mouse that took a vow of poverty, but even for me, a European race once in a while is not out of the question.

I'm aware that your circumstances can mitigate against allocating big chunks of free time to a racing holiday. That will be a real factor, I know. And I'll concede that coming down from the South-West puts a few more petrol miles into the equation than my location just north of London, but it is achievable with a little determined saving.

S'right Tim. You tell im!!!;)

Not wishing to beat up on you G chappy. However, you really should try and get about a bit, just to see what its like in other parts. I bet if you, Lee and a couple of others got together you could do it really cheap. And if you did, I'm sure tickets could be made available.

I fully expect to see a couple of TVR Granturas racing in the 6 hours.;)

But I'm already saving for a camera lens and a TVR Vixen or Taimar!! Much more important you understand :) :)

(perhaps I should sell old Berol while my brother's not looking...)

yelwoci - what is the full schedule for SPa - I'm due to be in our Volvo 122S (1965 red / white - class winner FIA Donington last weekend) (that part is for Peter) for the tin top challenge and wondered if there are any other races whilst we're out there ?

please advise

I don't have the full schedule, especially for a '65 car.

I know there is a pre-82ish French Saloon race (10 lap);
a pre-82ish English Race (Barry Sidery Smith, 10 lap) an all comers 2 driver race.

Last year there were also a number of historic saloon races and of course the 6-hour on the Sunday.
There were also thoroughbred sports car races.

IanC

For info about the FIA 6 hours of Spa and others races you can contact the organiser:

Motor Classic asbl,
254, boulevard d'Avroy,
B-4000 Liège,
Belgique.

Write to Mr. Alain Defalle.

You can also phone or fax them:

Telephone: +32(0)4/254.19.50
Fax: +32(0)4/254.25.40

E-mail : contact@motorclassic.com

We know there's a Top Hat 1 hour race on the bill. There's usually an Alfa Romeo race and there's usually a couple of single seater races. I expect the classic clubmans to be there.

Just guessing because whilst the Motor Classic asbl organise the meeting, they rent out the races to the highest bidder. That's why you don't get programmes.;)

About 4 years ago they had a Honda NSX race on, with semi-standard cars & full race versions. The full race versions were driven by mainly Honda execs

Got an idea of the schedule.

Friday = Practice/qualifying.
Saturday = Qualifying, 10 lap and 1 hour race.
Sunday = British Sports/Saloons race, 2x1 hour races, FIA Six hours of Spa.

That's as I understand it to be at present.;)

To be precise




TIMING
SIX HOURS SPA 2000 (Provisional)


FRIDAY September 8



10h20/11h20 Practice 1 SIX HOURS 1

11h40/12h10 Practice Barry 10 laps Touring &GT
4

12h30/13h00 Practice Trophée Saloon Car 6

13h20/13h40 Practice 1 Formula 2 Club Trophy 8



14h00/14h30 Practice HSCC GT 10 laps
5

14h50/15h20 Practice Barry One hour Touring &GT 2

15h40/16h10 Practice TOP HAT One Hour Touring 3

16h30/16h50 Practice 2 Formula 2 Club Trophy 8

17h10/18h10 Open Practice GT Touring

18h30/19h00 Open Practice Single Seater




SATURDAY September 9


08h00/08h30 Practice Troféo Alfa Roméo-Squadra Bianca
10

08h50/09h20 RACE HSCC GT 10 laps 5

09h40/10h40 Practice 2 SIX HOURS 1

11h00/11h30 Practice Acemai Formula 2 Trophy 9

11h50/12h20 Practice Formula Ford Challenge
11

12h40/13h40 RACE Barry One hour Touring &GT 2

14h00/14h30 RACE Trophée Saloon Car 6

14h50/15h15 RACE 1 Formula 2 Club Trophy 8

15h35/16h20 Practice European Historic Group 4 Trophy
7

16h40/17h40 RACE TOP HAT One Hour Touring 3

18h00/18h30 RACE Formula Ford Challenge 11



18h30 Incentive track time 45'



SUNDAY September 10

08h15/08h45 RACE Troféo Alfa Roméo-Squadra Bianca 10

09h05/09h35 RACE Barry 10 laps Touring &GT 4

09h55/10h20 RACE 2 Formula 2 Club Trophy 8

10h40/11h10 RACE Acemai Formula 2 Trophy 9

11h30/12h30 RACE European Historic Group 4 Trophy
7

Starting Procedure

13h00/19h00 RACE SIX HOURS 1


See you there - rgds Jos

Excellent. Thanks for that Jos.;)

We're there too !! The UK Classic Formula Ford Register will make up about half the grid of the Formula Ford Challenge, the other half is mainly French Classic FF I think. 48 Old Formula Fords into Eau Rouge from a rolling start - wow ! that'll get the ol' adrenalin going - and a few other parts probably.
There's going to be some pretty nice machinery there, one of our guys is bringing his restored Lotus 79, and the Acemai F2 cars are great, I think a freind of mine is taking his "Matchbox" Surtees - lovely cars - lovely noise.
As for cost - well our agenda has been cut from practise, qualifying and race to just qualifying and race but the entry fee is £135 GBP , WAKE UP BARC/BRSCC !!! that's the same as going to Brands club circuit. I know where I'd rather spend my money. And apparently if you open a European bank account and pay in Euro's it works out cheaper.
When you travelling over Pete et al ? We're probably going Dvr Calais by Hovercraft £165GBP inc trailer semmed pretty good. Not sure to go Thurs night or Fri before the birds wake up. Any idea how long it takes Calais to Spa, I heard 3-5hrs ?!?

Originally posted by Tony Harman
We're there too !!
.................................................................................
When you travelling over Pete et al ? We're probably going Dvr Calais by Hovercraft £165GBP inc trailer semmed pretty good. Not sure to go Thurs night or Fri before the birds wake up. Any idea how long it takes Calais to Spa, I heard 3-5hrs ?!?

I'm on the 08.45(ish) ferry on Thursday. I fly back in to the UK at 18.30 on the Wednesday.

Before you book talk to MST at 01295 274748.

Its about 4 hours towing time from Calais to Spa. have you booked a room?

See ya.;)

My recent research says most hotels in the area (a) are full and (b) have a three night minimum - but unusually for Europe have not boosted their room rates - much.....

Thanks Pete, Yep I've already spoken with MST, and Allsports down in Wales. Until I saw Jos's mail I didn't realise there was so much happening on Friday so we will go for the 10.00 am Ferry Thursday, return Sunday afternoon, shame we'll miss the main event but I have to go away again v.early Monday. Which race are you in Pete ?
No we've not booked a room, staying at "Chez canvas" as per norm.
Anyone got any suggestions on gear ratio's ? - despite the length I heard from opne person that Snetterton ratios are pretty close, I guess you tin top guys don't get a lot of choice on that - or do you ?, do you change diff's ?
If anyone's interested I've just found they have a nice site at http://www.spa-francochamps.be
See you there. ('ere where's that button gone that gives me the ascii code for generating smilies in the text ? - there should be a cool dude here!)

Afternoon folks,

I'm doing the Touring Cars 1 hour endurance on the Sat and the Touring Cars 10 lapper on the Sunday. I've some quick questions for those that have camped before:

- What's the facilities like? I'll be staying Thursday-Sunday and wouldn't mind a few hot showers in between :)

- Is it like camping at UK circuits - turn up and just pitch your tent near the paddock? or do they have an official campsite and will I need to book or pay any money?

Cheers
Andrew

We camped twice behind the bar/restaraunt behind the hairpin. We never had to pay as I was a 'pilote'. There is a shower block, (a couple of francs). There didn't look many good places to pitch a tent in the paddock.
Note. the first morning that we got up at 6am, there was frost on the tent & cars. Being the Ardennes, the weather can be hot in the day & barking freezing at night.

Useful info SNH, hadn't thought of not being able to pitch camp in the paddock, (not that you can at all UK circuits), when you say behind the bar / rstnt is that on the outside or inside of the track. Did you just end up there as you poured out of the bar then ?....

The bar is on the outside of the circuit. It's just before the turn into the woods to get to the circuit. I can get some more info later, when my mate's back from holiday. I can tell you that the bar opens v. late & afterwards you can sit in the car park with some locals & drink 1/2 bottle of Cognac each!
The weather does change, we were in shorts in the day & winter clothing at night the one time.
The hotel in the town does fabulous breakfasts. The beer being Belgian is the best. There is also a young barmaid who works in 2 of the bars who is possibly the best looking woman I have EVER seen!
I last went 2 years ago & there was no fuel in the circuit, so we drove the race car to the local garage. The queue at the pumps was bizarre, my Capri, a couple of Triumph race cars, a Honda NSX on slicks & a few single seaters. I gather in that part of Belgium they break the laws if they think the laws are pointless.
The first time I raced there it was so foggy you couldn't see some corners from 100 metres, before we went out to practise, the Clerk told us to go slowly. In the UK we wouldn't have been allowed to go out. They played Mission Imposible as we went out for therace & God Save the Queen as we ended the race. The locals are very welcoming. The circuit is spectacular.
In the evening we took the tow car round the whole of the circuit a few times, as they only put bollards across to stop you going onto the circuit.

Oh, I get it, the reason for you going to Spa is women orientated eh, racing is just the excuse for going then, he-he. Breakfast sounds great - put me down for a full one with all the trimmings - least I won't have any worries about minimum weight then.
I tried getting fuel at the garage at Combe a few years ago in a road registered R5 challenge car, I got stopped as I drove out of the gate by a man in a funny pointed hat telling me if I went another inch I was nicked. Still that's Britiain for you. I reckon the sight of single seaters trundling off to the local filling station must be quite entertaining.
Taking the tow car off round the circuit in the evening is probably very valuable in just learning where it all goes at the corners, I did that first time I ever went to Mallory, arrived at night and couldn't find the entrance to the paddock (honest), trouble was I didn't discover until next day that we had gone round the wrong way !
If you get any more info on camping let us know.

Paddock facilities
Just a thought - anyone know if they have electricity supply in the paddock ?

Any more stories about driving racing cars on the road? There was an article in Motorsport a year or so ago about GP cars being driven to the circuit by Bira and Ascari (and others) and various teams testing Le Mans setups on the newly-opened M1 motorway. Cool.

I seem to remember there being electric in the paddock. Unless it's changed, you had to dump your trailer away from the car.

I used to drive the Triumph 200 to work some of the time. A guy who was fixing my Mk1 Capri, (which had a number plate 1156MS), tested it on the road, (the plate was not a real number), & told the copper it was a private plate, cos the car was owned by a rich man, (no names, but he drives a yellow IMP).
I've tested the yellow Capri up the road nearby & when the trailer wheel broke coming back fro Thruxton, my wife drove the tow car & 3 wheel trailer & I drove the Capri about 15 miles in the dark.
(Fortunately the police won't be able to trace me, cos my name is Dick Johnson really)

S'right.

There's lecky and water in the paddock. Smelly drains at no extra cost.

The camp site referred to by my learned co-racer belongs to the hotel just up the hill from the circuit, not far from the model shop where you can by metal replicas of your favourite group 1 (not Sunbeam Ti) touring cars for a reasonable £70.00. I did that last year when I went in to buy a paper!!!!

His reference to the barmaid can be put into perspective when one considers that the Spa Francorchamps circuit on her t shirt is far lumpier than in real life!!!

The four star fuel and the super unleaded at the garage is a much darker colour than any I've seen elsewhere.

Its a great weekend. I'm only doing the 10 lap GT and Touring car race this year. So plenty of time for moules & frites etc.;)

That's the place Peter. I forgot the model shop. The hotel at the top of that road does good brekkies & shows soccer on tv as well.

SNH et al
You have to watch that Belgian beer!
I arrived Thurs evening last year, dumped the car, had some food, hit the bar.
Next time I looked at my watch it was 3am.
My first practice and first even run around Spa was at 8.30am!
Quite impressed with my 3'18" in the circumstances.
Luckily nobody asked me to blow into a little bag, driving to the circuit or on it! Might have turn scarlett.

This year will be a 'dry' year...you know!


IanC

You get used to Belgian beer, (mussy head, bad gut). It starts around 5%, try some of the Trappist beers, saw some at 16%!

Originally posted by SNH
That's the place Peter. I forgot the model shop. The hotel at the top of that road does good brekkies & shows soccer on tv as well.

The hotel is called "The Moderne". Since I've been going to Spa (Loads of years) the beer exchange rate has got better and better. For at least ten years a beer in the Paddock has been 55 Bef. Its probably gone up this year.

The "bog ladies" change every year though.;)

Anyone know where I can find a circuit outline map ?
the Spa www site has a nice aerial shot and a how to get there route but no real layout map. www british motor racing circuits doesn't have one for Spa. My Autosport guide doesn't include Spa. Anybody seen one anywhere...

TONY!!!!!!

How's about right here!
http://www.ten-tenths.com/circuitguides/9.html#5


IanC

Whoops,
Spa map seems to have disappeared...Oulton is very similar though!

Sorry
Try:
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-10348/belgium/belgium.htm

http://www.totalf1.com/circuits/spa.shtml

IanC

Ta Ian, now just to commit it all to memory....

Tony,
Last year was my first time.
I spent 2 months playing 'The Official F1 Game' on my PC.
I was useless on the PC game, but I learnt the circuit.
BUT it prepare me for Eau Rouge's gradient or the tightness of the hairpin (Rivage?)

Strongly recommend this approach.

IanC

Originally posted by yelwoci
Tony,
Last year was my first time.
I spent 2 months playing 'The Official F1 Game' on my PC.
I was useless on the PC game, but I learnt the circuit.
BUT it prepare me for Eau Rouge's gradient or the tightness of the hairpin (Rivage?)

Strongly recommend this approach.

IanC

The Hairpin is La Source.

About the only advice I can offer anybody is that if you get into trouble at Eau Rouge, keep the right foot planted cos it will take you over the gravel trap at the top of the slope. Braking or lifting off just throws you at the scenery.;)

Unfortunately I don't have the game, perhaps I ought to get a copy and do some practise

Microprose Grand Prix is the game. More suited to single seaters than Touring cars because single seaters can hold the line through Eau Rouge and Pouhon better.;)

Peter,

I didn't mean La Source but the one the other side of the Malmedy which is heavily banked - Rivage.

The Microprose game is an old DOS derived game.

Official F1 Racing was developed for Eidos by France-based Lankhor.

You 're right that its single seater stuff, you sit too low and there is too much grip, but its good enough to learn the circuit on.

I haven't found a decent Touring Car or GT package that does Spa as well, or at all!

IanC

Originally posted by yelwoci
Peter,

I didn't mean La Source but the one the other side of the Malmedy which is heavily banked - Rivage.

That's an interesting description for a 180 degree, off camber, second/third gear, corner.;)

Two weeks to go. Everybody ready???;)

Have to decide whether to replace the cracked windscreen before or during Spa.
If I do it before, I won't have a spare and there's a chance the new one will get busted like Steve Cripps did last year!

Oulton Park destroyed my rear brakes, which resulted in a broken caliper at Pembrey.

My trailer keeps shedding tyres/wheels so this needs to be sorted before Spa.


IanC

Steve's screen got busted because Howard Dawson ran across the kitty litter in front of him.

I've changed my screen so you can bet on what's going to happen now can't you?;)

Hey Pete, do you have to run glass screens ? if not try silicone coated polycarbonate, will NOT crack and can be used with windscreen wipers, probably last about two seasons before needing replacement (and no I don't work for the manufacturer, used to use it in rallycross with great success).

Yep two weeks to go - anyone got any ideas on ratio's for a FF1600 at Spa, rolling start ???

Have to use glass I'm afraid.;)

Will anyone be posting full qualifying and race results from this meeting? Or can they be faxed if the right people are asked?

Welcom to the forum White Knight - results and report for the british part of the Formula ford race will be found at http://www.classicformulaford.com probably posted by Sunday night if I remember to take my laptop with me.

For those of you who believe weather forecasts try


http://uk.weather.yahoo.com/8269/index_c.html


It should be pointed out that Spa is renowned for having its own ecosystem

Yep,
That's about right. Take ski suits and shorts cos you never know.

Well, thats it. I'm off now until Monday night. And............ Its raining in the Netherlands!!!;)