The Vee thread

I'm going to dabble in Vee a little this year. I have a couple of friends already racing in it. Just wondering how many people out there are/will/have raced Vee's?

Hoping to in QLD next year.

C'mon Vee ppl, Im trying to get something going here......or am just misled about the popularity of this formula. Either way I wanna Talk about it with ppl.

Murray, forgive me, what/where is QLD?

Queensland, Australia

Hey Brad, talk away. what do you want to know or talk about? Its very hard to start a conversation when you start the thread with a poll. There are some people here that know about Vee's, whether from racing, building or watching. Where are you hoping to race? How are you friends? What are you going to race? Theres a start...

im hoping to race Vee in the UK next year.

I'd love to race a FVee one day, nice step into motor racing, and they produce some great racing :) The Australian FVee Website has some nice onboard laps in Quicktime format at one stage, you might like to take a look.

The url is www.fvee.org.au

Some UK and Ireland websites:
www.formulavee.co.uk
www.vwracing.net
www.leastone-racing.com

General Vee site with loads of links:
www.veeracing.com

where are all the Vee drivers anyway? there must be loads of them hiding somewhere.

Maybe not... Brad wanted to talk but has disappeared now... Hate when that happens

I'm racing in Formula Vee this year as much as my (tight) budget will allow. I've never done any form of motor sport before and this looked like a good point to start. Every thing I've read & the people I spoke to said it is friendly yet competitive with costs lower than other single seater series. The mechanics are fairly standard VW so even I can cope with most jobs on the car and the emphasis seems to be on driver ability and car set up. I spent this weekend getting the car ready and finally drove it!! Only a 1st & 2nd gear blast round the yard but at least I know it goes!:eek: :eek:
I'm planning to go to the test day at Mallory on the 25th just hope I don't make a prat of myself:bag: May see you there Braden.

what chassis brand did you get FilW ?

I'm back, I'll do this from time to time- disapear. Part of my job I'm afraid.

I am racing a friends (Mark Dunham) Sheane 96, I am definatly doing donnington in may and a couple of others yet to be set.

Thinking that I'm going to be slow though, got 15.5 stone (100k) of my fat behind to drive around. Thats gotta make a significant differance in a vee, right?

In 2001, I was about 14.75 stone. When I jumped out of the car at Snett after winning the commentator could only say "so he's not a small lad then". We were consistently 22kilos over the min weight. We had 5 fastest laps (including lap record at Donington GP) that year and about another 5 front row qualifications.

They say that every 10kilos is about .5sec per lap but then it depends on how long the lap is and the nature of the track. So maybe you should get off the fat ar$e and get into the gym (sorry only slagging - he in the glass house shouldn't be throwing stones).

I just tell everyone that I'm keeping the weight to make the car stick better to the track. Its my little secret...

are you sill racing vee av8? In ireland? Or in the UK?

I reckon 10k is about what i need to lose to be a healthy weight. It will remain to be seen if it will give .5s.

Any tips on settin gup the car for the more cuddly driver?

Have you found anything to drive yet woody?

Didn't race last year because I've been too busy with work. Hopefully I may get out for the Phoenix Park 100 year anniversary this year in Dublin.

Should be plenty of room in the Sheane for the more cuddly driver. Try to get a seat molded (using two part expanding foam - don't have the exact name to hand). Make sure everything fits without having to stretch (i.e. gearshift, steering wheel, pedals, switches, etc....). This is very important.

Will you have someone run you or are you doing it yourself? Donington will be very difficult to qualify at if you don't have any experience. Generally at Donington Vee's get two qualifying sessions with the quickest 30/32 going thru to the race. There might be up to 8 people that won't get to race (depending on entry numbers). So you'll be setting yourself a hard target. Make sure that you get some seat time before Donington and I'd recommend booking Friday testing at Donington too.

Originally posted by bradenc
Have you found anything to drive yet woody?
Im hoping to get a car towards the end of the year, but i have a lot of things to sort out before then (like a house!). I might do a hire drive next year if nothing else happens, but i'll have to wait and see. But this year I'll definetely go to as many Vee meetings as I can.

by the way, do they still make Ray cars?
they look quite nice. any thoughts about them?

For the races I do Mark Dunham is going to run me in his car. As for a molded seat......I assume Im going to wedge into his.

I hope to do a race before donnington, but that one is firm. And I will certainly go testing there before the race.

I would hate to not qualify for my first race. The SHAME!

Any recomendations for an easy race for my first one.

Round Fixture Date

1 Mallory 9th March
2 Donnington 29/30th March
3 Brands Hatch 12/13th April
4/5 Snetterton 26/27th April
6 Donnington 10/11th May
7 Cadwell 28/29th June
8/9 Pembrey 26/27th July
10 Silverstone 23/24th August
11 Oulton 8th September
12/13 Cadwell 27/28th September
14 Mallory 19th October

Woody. I bought an ARI Mk4 raced my Ricky Cole over the last couple of seasons. I didn't research the diferent cars available but the price was right, the engine was good and I was impatient!
I've got my number now, 50, so if you get to any meetings come and say hi.:beer:

ok cool. you'll probably see me wondering around trying to take photos for my website.

Originally posted by woodyracing
by the way, do they still make Ray cars?
they look quite nice. any thoughts about them?

I think that there may be three Ray Cars available. The best person to contact is John Bowles in Seven Oaks. He has a VW garage there. I can PM you his number if you want.

The Ray's that may be available:
Owned by Ray Moore (Ireland). Previously owned and raced with success by Simon Robinson. Not raced in the last 2/3 seasons.
Previous Vee Champion Martin Browne has not raced for the past 1/2 seasons due to work/family commitments. Car may be available. John Bowles (JB) can give you more information.
Quite new car owned by gentleman racer (not raced hard) who passed away in 2001. Car may still be available as I haven't seen it on track since. I know that JB was looking after the sale.

Also, if you contact JB, he will be able to put you in contact with Ray who will (probably) build you a car.

I have to agree, I love the look of them too. They look heavier than other Vee's but they actually come in on the min weight.

Originally posted by bradenc
For the races I do Mark Dunham is going to run me in his car. As for a molded seat......I assume Im going to wedge into his.

To mold a seat takes about 20mins and costs about £20. The small effort/money is definitely worth it. It can be made in two parts and be re-used.

Originally posted by bradenc
Any recomendations for an easy race for my first one.

Round Fixture Date

1 Mallory 9th March
2 Donnington 29/30th March
3 Brands Hatch 12/13th April
4/5 Snetterton 26/27th April
6 Donnington 10/11th May
7 Cadwell 28/29th June
8/9 Pembrey 26/27th July
10 Silverstone 23/24th August
11 Oulton 8th September
12/13 Cadwell 27/28th September
14 Mallory 19th October

Mallory should have a good entry. The track is easy (although I hate the place) and laptimes quite close (because of the short lap).

Snett is a great track that is easy to learn. Its got plenty of long, quick straights and some nice balls out overtaking spots (at the end of the straights, around the outside of the Bomb Hole and outside of Coram - loads of grip even in the wet). The most important corners being Sears and Russell.

The difference between front row and back row can be huge at Cadwell because of the nature of the circuit (you need big balls).

Pembrey is another great track. And Oulton is my second favourite (after Donington). Again at Oulton difference between front and back can be big (especially in the wet). Check out this link to wet qualifying in Oulton
http://www.motorsnippets.com/750mc/racing/results/Oulton%20Park%2011th%20August.pdf

thanks for the Ray info, i'll make enquires closer to the time.
The Sheane chassis is very popular, does this mean that parts are cheaper than something like a Ray?

I wouldn't say that parts are any cheaper. All of the engine/carb/gearbox costs will be the same no matter what you drive. Front beam and steering should also be the same. The only real difference between cars is track rods, trailing arms, pushrods, etc... These don't cost much and can be made by your local workshop. After that each builder has different suspension layouts which should all cost about the same.

I do know that replacement nosecones for the Ray are about three times as expensive as a Sheane nosecone.

You might consider both the Irish chassis - Sheane and Leastone - because of the advantagous sterling/euro rate. Both have good history and both have their merits. The Sheane would probably work out cheaper. I know that I went quicker in a Leastone. Check out Alan Harding at www.formulavee.co.uk and he can organise a test in both (he can also sell both to you).

Let me know if you get a price for Sheane/Leastone. I should be able to buy one in Ireland a lot cheaper and we could do a deal for cheaper than you'll buy in the UK (approx GBP£4350 brand new rolling chassis less engine).

Originally posted by bradenc
I'm going to dabble in Vee a little this year. I have a couple of friends already racing in it. Just wondering how many people out there are/will/have raced Vee's?

Always good to see new people getting out..... Am running my 4th season in Vee this year.... hoping to improve on 9th in the Champs last year, but it's getting tougher.... There's a lot of guys going very quickly at the front....

Interesting to note that the lap record has come down, say at Cadwell, from 1Min40.0 to 1min36.2 over 5yrs or so - Even though the cars havent really changed too much (my car is 6 yrs old itself)...

I reckon that Vee is a good place to learn to race.... 40 plus entries all in the same class, racing is always close right down the field and, if you run yourself, £6k for a season is quite feasible (includes some testing). Some people stay in Vee forever, others move on - either way, to win in Vee is pretty tough - witness the guys from FRenault this year who had a go... went well (as you'd expect) but didnt win anything.... - I think that surprised them....

Bill have we met, I recognise your name, maybe at the end of season party last year?

Having looked at the poll am I right in assuming that there are only 6 people who have/are or about to race Vee on this Forum (Worldwide):confused:

i guess we need to tell them all about 10-Tenths :)

part of the problem is that if you come on to ten-tenths and want to find a vee thread you have to trawl because you cant search for vee 'cos you have to search for 4 characters at least.

Irish Formula Vee is just about the most exciting class in the country. There is about 50 cars on a weekend and two races. The cars are practically all Sheane or Leastone, but you already know all of that.

As a class, it is brillant fun. The cars are easy to mess around with and costs are not that expensive. In fact, to run in England probably costs a lot more. When you think about it, Irish Vee is probably stronger than British Vee in general.

As for Formula Renault drivers, well the British National champ - Playle, i think, came over for a weekend in Mondello last year and had to be cut out of his car after an accident. Maybe the two formulae are incompatable.
But then again, he was trying to go up the inside of me.........

from what i can tell, to be fast in british vee is gonna cost 10-15k for a season a usedcar and trailer is 3k-10k.

I have heard the AHS www.formulavee.co.uk has got a "new" engine. 9000rpm. This may push up the cost of being competative.

Realistically you are talking (based on a 14 round championship):
7 Tests - £1100
14 Race Entries - £2000
3-4 sets of tyres - £1200
Engine Rebuild - £800
Fuel - £400

Don't add the cost of the car into the seasons running as you can use it for the next 20 years (if you don't trash it).

So thats £4400. This WILL make you competitive.

You don't need to stay in a hotel. You don't need a camper van. You don't need to be the flashest bloke in the paddock.

You can use your normal roadcar to tow. A trailer will cost approx £1000.

You can add in wear & tear (depreciation), hotel/b&b costs, camper van, fuel to/from track, time off work, etc....

It can, is and has been done on very small budgets. Jeremy Clark, Trevor Walsh, Guy Bellingham, Patrick Sherrington, etc do not spend lots of money. They are winning every weekend.

Now, on the other hand, you can have a spare car (its not unheard of). You can have three spare engines sitting in the big truck. You can stay in flash hotels. You can do more testing. You can put on tyres every weekend. But when you spend £30000 and still don't win the championship, you'll look like an ass. This is an amateur class.

As regards the new AHS engine revving to 9000rpm: The engine was developed by AHS in conjunction with Arrows F1. It has side draught carbs which allow better fuel delivery (and probably some more). I heard a rumour that the engine can only be rented at a cost of about £7000 per season. You can't buy one.

it had its first appearance in a non-championship race at Oulton at the end of 2000. It won the race by default, after the two leaders came together at Lodge. By that stage they had approx 20secs of a gap built up on engines that had already done a full season (so they were a little tired). It was also a second off the fastest lap (with a very experienced pilot).

The engine made its next appearance at Silverstone for round one of the 2001 championship and dropped out with a broken pushrod(??) at Maggots on about lap 6.

I think it had one more outing and was dropped because it couldn't run at the front AND finish. Remember to finish first, first you must finish.

These engines were designed and built in the 50's/60's and were supposed to pull about 4500rpm. They are not made for 9000rpm. Something somewhere will fail at some stage.

I wouldn't really worry about this engine. When the TTM cabon fiber car came out (the one that Neale Blunden drives), everyone was crying that it must be illegal, too light, traction control, blah, blah, blah.... The quick lads still went out and beat it. At the end of the day, most of it is down to the driver. Yes, the car does play an important role, but if the driver can't drive, it doesn't make a difference.

bradenc: go out there, get some seat time, learn about the car, learn how to drive quickly, ask if you need to (only from someone that knows what they're talking about - theres a lot of people think they do - listen to everyone put pay heed to 2/3 known experts), get in with the right group, have fun.

Don't expect to win at the first attempt (not bad to be disappointed if you don't), don't think you know it all, don't worry about the new AHS engine and last of all DON'T HAVE ANY EXCUSES.

REMEMBER: ENJOY IT

Wow can I talk....

Originally posted by av8rirl
You can use your normal roadcar to tow

I'm looking at different tow car options, will a Ford Escort 1.8 TD be ok as a Vee tow car ?

Light trailer, light Vee - Ford Escort NO PROBLEM. One of the lads tows with a Montego.

If you are on a budget and you really want a tow car, try get an estate/stationwagon. You can use it for sleeping trackside. These are the things that we do when we want to race but don't have lots of money.

ok thanks, it would be easier to sleep in an estate rather than a saloon. I'll have to think about that :)

Anyone of the "real" racers with lots of cash will be shocked to be reading this. Imagine sleeping in a car so that you can race???? Thats what clubman racing is about. Getting out, testing, qualifying and racing hard.

I do a lot of camping anyway at the campsites around the circuits. Usually in my tent but ive had to sleep in my Fiesta a couple of times which was uncomfortable to say the least. It makes sense to sleep next to your racecar in the paddock though.

Originally posted by bradenc
Bill have we met, I recognise your name, maybe at the end of season party last year?

It's possible we did meet at the end of season party - but I was pretty drunk so memories are a bit hazy!!!

Looking through the threads, I agree with av8rirl... You can certainly do an extremely competitive season in Vee for 6k (and that includes testing) - if you run yourself.... If you're being run by someone then more or less double that.

I'd also say you can buy a competitive 2nd hand car for 6 to 8k.... Mine was about £6k once I paid for it and updated a few old parts. However you can probably do it for less. Look at Guy Bellingham in 2001... I've no idea how old his Scarab was (late 80's at a guess...) but he still won at Pembrey in it.... Same with Trevor Welsh in his old Scarab... True, both have bought new cars in the last 18 months but it's not 100% clear they're a whole faster in them.... (TW's Scarab still has lap record at Snetterton for example, Silverstone Lap Record also held by an 'old' Scarab)...

Also, look at Jon Randall - still running top 10 in a 1974 Kaimann...

The trick is all in the set up.... Get a decent Engine (there's 3 or 4 builders out there, all good - I use Andy Storer for mine), and you'll be fine - work on the set up and the driving.... the car (no matter how old) will be much better than the driver for at least 2 years.... Unless you're within, say, about 1.5 secs of the lap record then it's driver trouble not car... no matter what ANYONE tells you. (btw, driver trouble includes set up!)

We'll have to see the impact of a 9000 rpm screamer engine. If it's the same one as av8rirl mentions then I've been on the track a few times with it and slipstreamed past no problem.... didn't sound like 9000 rpm to me!!! However it may have developed since then.... It'll be pretty obvious to the rest of the field anyway.


Like I say, we shall see.

who's at mallory tommorow (25th Feb)

anyone going to Mallory on 6th March? I might pop down.

whats happening on the 6th? I know theres a race on the 9th.

sorry 9th i meant :banghead:

Can you post the results afterwards? It'd be great if you could scan a copy of the results and email them...

:D :rotate:
I'll be there. My first race and I'm like a kid waiting for christmas!!!
Roll on the weekend!

sorry, not sure if this works??:confused:

I can confidently say that the Formula Renault drivers thought Formula Vee was great!!
Not only cheap as chips, its got fantastic racing and fantastic friendly people.
True, i didn't win any races, but that was due to overheating engines at snet and a spin :rotate: at cadell. Got a new lap record at Cadwell though!! Doesn't matter about the results much, was only meant for a bit of fun and I came away with great memories and a massive smile on my face.

Hello Sparrow. Welcome to 10/10ths. What are you doing this year? Last I heard you had a test with Duma in F3 but I think they're gone? David Hall also tested at Pembrey. I think he's doing Dunlop Irish Touring Cars and Formula Sheane Rover in Ireland.

I'll be there on the 9th. I'll gladly post the results, maybe some pics if you want them.

Pics would be even better. See if you can get a pic of the front of the TTM Veetech without the nosecone. I remember seeing the trick front suspension but don't remember it fully. Looks cool.

I'll do my best, do you know whos car that is? Do you know if they would mind? Is it supefly, supertrick, super secret front end?

At the end of testing last week I developed a misfire put down to water in the float chamber & jets..........how do I get rid of it. I've taken the tops off the float chambers, emptied the fuel out and blown it out with an airline but do I need to do anything else with the jets, do I/can they be taken out and cleaned. Cheers.

Yes. You can just whip out the jets with a screwdriver. Blow them out with an air gun. You should do this before qualifying and race anyway.

Was it raining during testing? Were you running on all cylinders? Are you sure it was water?

How did things go yesterday?

bradenc: The car is normally driven by Neal Blunden. Not sure if he was out.

Didn't see the car.

There were 3 cars with the new AHS engines in them. None qualified for the race. One dropped out and the others were too slow by far. Shame for the folks who've spent the money on them.

FilW got of to a slow start in his heat, but you could see the speed coning to him as the heat went on. He made up a lot of ground to have a good race with the more experienced 26 car ( a nice car ). Wel done FilW!

:rotate:It was a day of firsts for me!!! My first qualifying, with a chronic missfire, so pottered roud in third trying not to get in anyones way to qualify. First red flag which I saw, blue flags waved at me which I saw, first black and orange flag waved with my number which I didn't see :o First visit to the Clerk of the course for first official arse kicking :bag: just about cleared the missfire before the race so started from the back row. Made up 4 places from the start and maybe 1 more at Shaws but the car just didn't want to accelerate quickly enough from Shaws to Gerrards so after 2 laps I was last again. Managed to catch Pete Andrews with 2 to go and got past him at Shaws but he was quicker coming out of Gerrards and got along side coming into the Esses on the last lap. I ran a bit wide and lost the back and had my first spin :eek: :eek: Spent what seemed an age pirouetting on the grass waiting for the crunch and muttering the word b*ll*cks until I ended up facing the right way 1st gear back on the track and round to the chequered flag. I can't believe how much fun I had and I can't wait til Donnington in 3 weeks. See you there Braden? :beer:

sounds fun :)

I believe I may be racing with you there Fil. We could make the back of the grid very wide ;)

Originally posted by FilW
Spent what seemed an age pirouetting on the grass waiting for the crunch and muttering the word b*ll*cks until I ended up facing the right way 1st gear back on the track and round to the chequered flag.

Aha, so that was you! :)

I can't believe how much fun I had

Two excellent Formula Vee races - as usual! What I like about Vee is that the racing is always close but clean - it's a pity some other single-seater formulae can't understand that motor racing is a non-contact sport.

Originally posted by bradenc
Didn't see the car.

There were 3 cars with the new AHS engines in them. None qualified for the race. One dropped out and the others were too slow by far. Shame for the folks who've spent the money on them.



Hi Bradenc,

I’m the one of those folks with the empty pockets, the one that "dropped out". I will not comment specifically on the other two except to say that they too had differing issues. my problem was not with the engine but with the gearbox. On the out lap of qualifying I lost 3rd gear and had to complete qualifying by changing from second to fourth out of the hairpin! With this in mind I decided to skip the race and save the tyres and engine for a better day. AHS have done a great job for me in the past. I rented a car from Alan last year, my first full year in motor sport and was extremely pleased with the service and standard of the car. I think the reliability and competitive ness of the rent car reflected in my 13th place championship result and second place in the Vee Challenge.

I must say that all three cars are hot of the 'production line' and are bound to have teething problems. Allthough I am disapointed at not getting a race I did expect these initial problems and expect more but with an aim to have the car up and fully running in the next few races.

regards
SteveO

Mallory can't help new cars either, with the absence of a test session before the races.

Steve: what do you think of the new engine? Is it better or much better? A Jez beater?

Hi Ivan,

Managed to get a test in at mallory last wednesday and engine was very strong. Its just a shame that the gearbox gave up this weekend especialy as its the only part that alan does not build.

Hows your design going, did you manage to find your CAD package.

Steveo: just PM'd you.

Hi Steve, welcome to ten tenths.

I was the guy with Mark Dunham (in the Black baseball cap).

I hope you don't think I was gloating, I am just super intreaged.

I think most people in the paddock realise that Alan puts a decent engine together, which is perhaps why the new engine has received the hype.

To look at and listen too the car is a real piece of art, it was a dissapointment and a relief that they didn't go well.

I am looking forward to seeing them/you go well, especially as I will not be challenging for position at the front.

Is everything ok with noise levels now? Are you going testing before donnington?

I'll make sure I come over and introduce myself at donnington.

Of corse you dont have to tell me but is 9000rpm and 100bhp that I've heard under or over exagerated.

Best of luck at donnington (my first race), I (90) will keep an aye out for you in my mirrors (although I'll probably hear you coming first).

Bradenc: you should have higher aims. Of course you should aim to be at the front. And remember, when you are racing, take no prisoners. If you are running with other cars, you fully deserve to battle hard (and fair). If you do end up being lapped (which you aim not to), let the leaders thru (but not at the expense of loosing a position to whoever you are battling with).

Thanks for the advice av, perhaps I should be aiming higher, but being my first race ever, in a car I don't own I am hoping to be able to finish and have a race along the way.
If I am able to get towards the front that would be great, I'd love nothing more.

By keeping my expectations low I shouldn't dissapoint myself.

Perhaps I should aim for a win and expect a finish? I might suprise myself and be a gifted racer!

Well you never know what'll happen. Is the race on the GP track (ie using the Melbourne Loop)? Testing is important. The Craner Curves are flat from the second lap (even in the wet you can put you're inside front on the grating thru the left hand part). its also very possible to go around the outside of cars thru the Craners. Donington is probably my favourite track.

Do you have any times from the car owner from Donington? Even though times will change from day to day, this gives you a marker of how you are doing.

Doesn't look like we'll get a chance to test at donnington, I'll have my first outing in a test at mallory or snetterton.

I dont think we have data from donnington because the owner didn't do it last year. He doesn't like donnington, thats why im doing it but I can get data for other cars.

I hope theres a couple of practice sessions!

If you are not testing, you'll only get the chance to see the track in the single qualifying session. It is definitely worth trying to get there for the Thursday testing. A half day test will be a huge benefit especially on a track that is technical.

Mallory is not great to judge yourself on. Because its a low 50's track you might think that you are close to the pace with a lap that is 2secs off. Once you get somewhere that has a laptime double that of Mallory and is more technical, you find it hard to believe that you can be 4 secs and more off the pace. Teams in all classes appear to give drivers a first test at Mallory as times are usually close and the driver comes away thinking that they are the next Senna. Then the driver gets a shock when they go to a real track like Donington, Oulton, Silverstone, Brands, etc... You'll probably find the biggest qualifying differences at Cadwell Mountain track because of its very technical and precise nature.

The major drawback with donnington is that the owner doesnt want to test there and a half day is £260, compared to a full day for £135 at snetterton. I know I will be at a disadvantage never having driven the track but I dont have much choice. I dont think I'll get to race cadwell, the owner likes it and went 4th there last year. Should get to pembrey, perhaps the the second donnington. Some others if the opportunity comes up.

Or I might do the first donnington, hate it and never want to get back in the car again. Or I might not ;)

I have to agree with av there, i have raced vee's at snetterton and cadwell, and the difference was massive. Malory and Cadwell can not be compared :eek:

Not like donnington? No way!! It's fantastic.

Hi Bradenc,

Sorry if my post seemed a little strong, It was a bad day and with some of the protests put in from among the other teams you can imagine things being a little touchie at the moment. I Hope things go well for you in your test and I must say that from my little experience of FV your getting some sound advice from av. Look forward to seing you at donnington where like me you may find it to be your favourite track.

Why is testing at Donnington so expensive?

No need to apologise Steve, were the protests just on noise? I guess there really is no point in protesting when the cars aren't going at their best anyway.

I hope I do enjoy donnington, however it is now looking doubtful the car will be ready for that either. I may well end up renting a car from Alan before the year is out.

Probably down to requiring more marshals, medics, etc... And the fact that it is a pure class track! After that I don't know. But it is definitely worthwhile.

The ptotest picked on a few different items. from running aluminium rocker covers! to the position of the rain light not to mention the side draught engine.

I thought everyone is running aluminium rocker covers? Position of rain light?

I assume theres only one thing that was really being protested!!! 'ardings ugly mug... Only joking. Tell Alan that I was asking for him. One of these days I'll go over and show him how to drive one his those Vee's. Maybe not very quick, but I'll show him all the same. Honestly I'd love to try one of the side-draught engines to see the difference. Is this what Pete TG is angling for?

Will you be sorted for Donington test?

unbelievable, people actually protested the rain light! On a dry day!

I thought Vee was supposed to be the most friendly formula out there.

Now if you beat me with a bent engine I might protest, but I can't see Alan building a bent one, he's built too many. But if you beat me with an illeagle rain light, you still beat me. If you didn't beat me with a Ferrari F2002, I still wouldn't protest because it doesn't effect me one way or the other. That is just my view, of course I am new to this, but it would seem the gentlemanly way to compete.

If people really believe that the AHS is illegal then they are surely better off only protesting when it kicks in. It is in their interest to let it run as long as it's not beating them. Unbelievable.

Does it cost anything to lodge a protest.

Unfortunately bradenc, when people are fighting for top championship points they will use technicalities to protest. Seems to me that this rain light issue is plain silly especially as the cars don't appear to be taking (many) points from Mallory.

There is a certain well known frontrunning driver that is known to protest drivers for fair hard battling. This driver doesn't seem to like it when he doesn't get his own way.

I believe the rule for this season is that the LED light must be within 3" of the centre of the car. I am sure 1/2 the grid would fail on 3".

If you'd like to PM me with the name of a "certain well known frontrunning driver" I am curious, I understand why you wouldn't to.

Are you racing Irish Vee at the moment AV? I notice Irish Vee's are at pembrey i26/27 July.

Pos Name Car Behind Best Time
Heat
1 Adam WILKINSON "Sheane FV96" "" "0:53.91"
2 Brandon THOMAS "Leastone" "0.51" "0:53.09"
3 Mike FENWICK "Leastone JH002" "6.26" "0:54.33"
4 Warren SMITH "Sheane" "13.46" "0:54.71"
5 Paul NICHOLLS "Leastone JH02 AHS" "14.00" "0:54.36"
6 John BOWLES "Ray 87" "16.34" "0:53.95"
7 Martin BROWN "Ray GM" "17.35" "0:53.83"
8 Adrian WESTON "Sheane AHS" "19.90" "0:55.18"
9 Andy METCALF "Leastone JH001" "20.15" "0:54.84"
10 Ian ELLIS "Scarab Mk4" "21.28" "0:54.90"
11 John HUGHES "Formula Vee" "21.66" "0:54.88"
12 Simon LIVESLEY "Scarab MkIV" "24.20" "0:54.94"
13 Bob HIGGINS "Sheane" "25.96" "0:55.49"
14 Richard HARRIS "Sheane AHS 97/02" "28.25" "0:53.74"
15 David LAVINGTON "Sheane" "31.01" "0:54.91"
16 Stuart FEATHER "Sheane AJS 2003" "32.32" "0:54.58"
17 Graham KIDDY "Sheane" "32.61" "0:54.60"
18 Paul SMITH "Predator" "34.19" "0:54.93"
19 Jonathan STORER "Scarab" "42.60" "0:55.15"
20 Charlie REILLY "Sheane" "44.44" "0:56.56"
21 Roger THOMPSON "McNamara Sebring" "45.90" "0:56.11"
22 James CONYERS "Leastone" "54.83" "0:55.44"
23 Peter ANDREWS "Sheane 2001" "58.46" "0:58.02"
24 Phil WATERHOUSE "ARI Mk4" "1:08.65" "0:57.14"
DNF Nick BROWN "AHS Challenger" "" "1:04.06"
DNS Stephen KERSHAW "Leastone JH002" "" "0:00.00"
DNS Michael AYLOTT "Leastone AHS" "" "0:00.00"
DNS Steven OUGH "Leastone AHS" "" "0:00.00"
Race
1 Jeremy CLARK "Spyder GAC" "" "0:51.68"
2 Ian JORDAN "Sheane 98" "1.19" "0:51.96"
3 Paul MITSON "GAC 01" "1.77" "0:51.71"
4 Patrick SHERRINGTON "Scarab Mk2" "3.15" "0:51.98"
5 Guy BELLINGHAM "GAC 01" "3.32" "0:51.99"
6 Mike JENVEY "Sheane" "4.25" "0:51.79"
7 Neil CHILLEYSTONE "Scarab Mk2" "10.28" "0:52.52"
8 John STAPLETON "Leastone JH002" "16.33" "0:52.94"
9 Ian BUXTON "Leastone" "16.70" "0:52.77"
10 Mike PASCALL "GAC 01" "16.92" "0:52.87"
11 Ken ELLIOTT "Leastone JH002" "17.32" "0:52.98"
12 Jon RANDALL "Kaimann" "19.48" "0:53.07"
13 Jamie CONYERS "Sheane" "20.31" "0:53.05"
14 Warren SMITH "Sheane" "20.97" "0:52.76"
15 Bill BURNETT "Sheane" "21.45" "0:52.43"
16 John BOWLES "Ray 87" "22.06" "0:52.85"
17 Brandon THOMAS "Leastone" "22.28" "0:52.51"
18 Martin BROWN "Ray GM" "28.39" "0:53.30"
19 Mike FENWICK "Leastone JH002" "28.96" "0:53.70"
20 Ian ELLIS "Scarab Mk4" "35.21" "0:54.18"
21 Simon LIVESLEY "Scarab MkIV" "35.46" "0:54.39"
22 Tony DOWSON "Sheane" "40.10" "0:54.22"
23 Andy METCALF "Leastone JH001" "41.79" "0:54.56"
24 Bob HIGGINS "Sheane" "42.78" "0:54.09"
25 John HUGHES "Formula Vee" "43.22" "0:54.43"
26 Adrian WESTON "Sheane AHS" "1 Lap" "0:54.55"
27 Paul NICHOLLS "Leastone JH02 AHS" "1 Lap" "0:54.65"
DNS Adam WILKINSON "Sheane FV96" "" "0:00.00"

I'd rather not name names. When you start racing at the front, you'll most likely find out unless you give him too much respect.

I'm hoping to get out for two Irish Vee meetings this year; double header at Pembrey and the Phoenix Park. Getting married in Sept, so her indoors is making sure I don't pick up any injuries. Saying that, she's just gone and bought me a parachute jump for my birthday!!! Makes no sense. I must get out that book a girl bought me once "What men know about women".

All the pages are blank.

So who's doing Donington?

I'm doing Donington. If the cars fixed in time! Rolling road on tuesday to try and get it running right but should be OK. What is Donington like?

Sparrow Wrote

I can confidently say that the Formula Renault drivers thought Formula Vee was great!!
Not only cheap as chips, its got fantastic racing and fantastic friendly people.
True, i didn't win any races, but that was due to overheating engines at snet and a spin at cadell. Got a new lap record at Cadwell though!! Doesn't matter about the results much, was only meant for a bit of fun and I came away with great memories and a massive smile on my face.


Hey Sparrow, sorry for the delayed response - have been a bit busy.... Yes Indeed, the Snetterton Weekend was quite something.... and the Cadwell race was a cracker (even if you're FR colleagues didn't acquit themselves anything like as well as you did!!!!) And I mean, let's face it, I don't think anyone felt you did anything other than acquit yourself extremely well - both on the track and off.... And in fact, it's maybe true that you SHOULD have won... but c'est la vie.... My point was aimed more at the guys just starting out, namely that you shouldn't assume that just because this is club racing, that the guys at the front are mugs and that if a good driver turns up then he'll blow them all away by a couple of seconds a lap.... it's just not true... the beauty of Vee is that you can progress at your own pace and always find someone else at the same standard to race with.....


Any plans for 2003?


to FilW - Donington is Awesome.... First time through Craners is interesting and Coppice (blind brow) is interesting the first time also.

I'll be there Thurs and Sat

i totally agree, the drivers at the front in vee are far from mugs, and many have spent years in the formula which gives them great knowlege about their cars and tracks. And whatever your ability, you'll always have someone to race and battle with. As i said before, it was great fun.

Thank you for the complements and interest.

This year i'm waiting for finalisation on budget and will be out on track as soon as things are sorted. I've been out of the car since november, still keeping fit and finding myself day dreaming about corners like church or cascades. It's a bad feeling knowing that the season has started without me, even though i'm in better shape now than i've ever been.
on a lighter note, i'm very confident we'll have the backing needed to progress soon.

i have to say this this is the best example of a vee ive seen
:beer:

:p

She does look good, looks even better with her sister.

Steve, I notice the alu rocker covers got the all clear. Are you good for donington?

Still a few teething problems after thursdays testing. We will just have to wait and see

is this Donington a Saturday meeting or Saturday and Sunday, if so which day are the Vees racing on ?
cheers
Woody

Vees are running saturday, first practice 9am.

right cool, i might be there! :) (just spectating that is)

If you make it come and find me, I'll be in the paddock around the black 14 car. About 6", 100kg, dark hair, with a longing look on my face. Braden is my name.

ok sure, ill look out for you :cool:

how did things go @ donington on sat??

Quote by BillStenning
to FilW - Donington is Awesome.... First time through Craners is interesting and Coppice (blind brow) is interesting the first time also.

You were right Bill AWESOME just about sums it up. I had a fantastic day with two great races Especially the final where SteveO and I swapped places on a number of occasions. Excellent fun! Only two weeks to Brands!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it's a bit different to Mallory isn't it!!!!

Glad you had a good time - although shame we got stopped early.... I had a badly grained left front which generated huge understeer at Redgate and Mcleans... still a cracking race tho'

that number 80 car as seen above, sounded wierd.
Anyone know anything about that ?

From the pic it looks like a side-draught engined car (can't see the carb clearly but the trailing arm pickup looks very low indicating a side-draught carb). I've heard that these side-draught engines are using four single exhaust pipes. Most other cars will have four-into-one exhaust system. Perhaps SteveO can tell us more? How did Steve go at the weekend?

Yes, it's the side-draught motor...... and indeed, they are using 4 single pipes.

Differing views on how it looks...... it's a personal thing - I actually quite like it..... but not as much as my Spyder!!!!

:p

:D

First round of the Irish Vee championship at Kirkistown tomorrow folks! :)

Anybody testing at Brands next friday or racing at the weekend??

I'll be there Fil, but still not racing.:( You went well at donington, mixing it with some of the big boys in your second race. Will I see more of the same at brands?

Yeh I had a good day Braden. It was nice to be actually racing instead of trundling around at the back as at Mallory!! Hopefully the car will behave at Brands and I'll get some good racing there as well. See you there.

So FilW, are there many entries for Brands?

AV8R there are about 45 entries I think but I don't have the paperwork on me. What is Brands like, I'm testing there on Friday because I'm working in the area and it seemed like too good on opportunity to miss. I hope that it does some good!!!!!!! I'll know on Sunday.

Like everything here, it costs too damn much.

And there are other classes I'd rather run for the same money. FVee's don't handle well, too momentum based... Like modern FFord 1600s, one end just follows the other around the track.

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
And there are other classes I'd rather run for the same money. FVee's don't handle well, too momentum based... Like modern FFord 1600s, one end just follows the other around the track.

Hey Lee. Have you raced a Vee? If not, you should hire a car for a race. Give it a go. When you beat everyone to the flag, you're qualified to slag Vee's. I'm not trying to start an arguement but I have a feeling that people think Vee's are actually easier than any other class. I think it might be judgement based on costs and suspension (which is due to regulations first created in the 60's).

FilW: I'm not a huge fan of Brands Indy track. Saying that it does have Paddock. You need big balls and plenty of confidence to go thru Paddock quick. Each time you do it, your heart will lift a little. The turn in is fairly blind. Just build up the confidence. When fighting for position, you can go round the outside at Paddock (but you need them big balls and confidence in the person your racing with). The more usual passing spot at Paddock is up the inside under braking. Paddock can be taken in 4th (when you have a clear track) but is mostly 3rd.

After that you have Druids hairpin which is 2nd/3rd gear and on down to one of the two most important corners Graham Hill. This is 3rd gear with exit speed most important. From here you are flat then to McLaren where you'll shift to 3rd. Back on the power through Clearways onto the main straight. McLaren/Clearways is very important to have good exit speed as this takes you onto the longest flat (throttle) part.

Enjoy and let me know how it goes.

Originally posted by av8rirl
Hey Lee. Have you raced a Vee? If not, you should hire a car for a race. Give it a go. When you beat everyone to the flag, you're qualified to slag Vee's. I'm not trying to start an arguement but I have a feeling that people think Vee's are actually easier than any other class. I think it might be judgement based on costs and suspension (which is due to regulations first created in the 60's).

With my budget, I could maybe rent the car and sit in the parking lot during the race making engine sounds from my mouth! ;)

I'm not trying to rubbish Vees, they just don't handle the way I prefer. This is from watching the SCCA runoffs for several years, which includes the country's most competitive FVee field. Any time one of these guys gets a little sideways, he loses massive amounts of time... So it just doesn't mesh with the way I drive. I suppose that's the point I was trying to make.

Sure, it can be a good training ground... Quite a few Champcar drivers have run FVee at some point.

Lee,

You have an interesting point..... I think tho' that UK spec Vee's are somewhat different to US.... I was under the impression that the US runs on quite lowly tuned 1200's (about 55hp?) with skinny slick tyres... (pls correct me if i'm wrong)

UK Vee's run just under 100hp with quite sticky treaded cross plys.... whilst slipstreaming and momentum are important, they aren't quite the be all and end all that is the case in the US.... The nature of the cross ply tyres means that the last thing that can be said of a UK Vee is that the rear wheels simply follow the front ones.... no siree - we're in 4 wheel drift country!

I remember hearing in the US that the clerk of the course will look down on the cars on the straight (from a bridge) to check they aren't actually touching in the slipstream - it's that extreme.....

Also.... am interested to know what other formulae can be run for the same money!

Originally posted by BillStenning
Also.... am interested to know what other formulae can be run for the same money!

me too.

quick question. do 750 Vees always get the garages ? and do u have to pay extra for one?

Woody.

It would seem the specs _are_ very different on opposite sides of the north Atlantic. FVees here rarely top 60 hp, (all are 1200s, I'd never even heard of racing 750s), the tires are extremely skinny, and the drafting is absurd, the weird exception being Mark Stout, who demolished the competition last year (although it looked like he destroyed his tires and really started to cool off at the end of the race).

If you can race a UK-spec Vee in four-wheel drift, that changes things entirely, I can understand why you're so fond of them! :cool:

For the same price... Open-wheel Formulas would be F500 (overgrown go-karts with 500cc two-strokes, and all suspension deflection based on a spec rubber disc), Club Formula Ford (old chassis with outboard springs), and maybe a shoestring effort in Pro Spec Racer (sealed 2.0L Ford motors, full bodywork).

The tintop classes in that price range are more interesting, though, especially the fairly new Spec Miata (Mazda MX-5) class. Good racing, fairly low cost, and the cars can be easily upgraded to run in the Pro Spec Miata class which sometimes supports CART and ALMS events (and pays real prize money!).

Garages? What garages? ;) We're talking 3 dozen classes at an SCCA National meeting, which usually run both Saturday and Sunday. You need a lot of cars to make the events fiscally viable.

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
I'd never even heard of racing 750s

no, the 750 I mentioned is the club that runs them (www.750mc.co.uk) :)

750mc Vees are 1300cc

Ah, sorry 'bout that! :bag:

And looking back through this thread, the differences in rolling stock become quite obvious to me. Sorry I didn't notice that before.

An SCCA FVee running in the states (Daytona) for comparison:
http://www.teamkluesner.com/images/banks.jpg

Stock wheels and extremely narrow slicks.

As for the drafting, well... http://www.teamkluesner.com/images/banks.jpg

Stupid time limit on editing messages. Sorry about mucking up the thread like this. :bag:

Ahem, the drafting...
http://www.houscca.com/racing/vees.jpg

Ah, sorry 'bout that! :bag:

Woody...I don't know how they allocate the garages but we've got them for second meeting running. We don't have to pay for them:rotate: I presume they are included in the cost of hiring the circuit but I'm not sure. If you make it to Brands come and say hi.I'm No 50

I might come out to play in a rental vee - its one of the only single seater series that interests me as I'm a VW driver exclusivley really. Though did appear (in a non comp role) on the rally of kent in a Subaru

jesse mason, whos in f3 with performance won Fvee championship 2000 or 2001 in canada 14 out of 16 race wins

FilW, I probably cant make it to Brands this weekend but I will come over and say hi next time im at a Vee race.

So wots the news from Brands?

bradenc, were you racing at Donington last time?
i was there but I couldn't work out which number you were.

No I wanted to be but the car wasn't ready, I am out at donnington on may 11th. I am however at each race. You'll find me around the black predator sponsored cars. 14 & 20. When I am out I will be 90. I will be at snett, but not racing. Did you see FilW? He should be able to point me out.

How about we pick a time at one of the meetings for the vee thread to meet up?

How about organising a p*** up on the Sat nite of the Pembrey double header? This gives everyone a while to make sure that they can make it..

I saw FilW's car 50 at Donington and managed to get a track photo of it too.

Im not sure I can make Snetterton, but any Donington/Mallory/Oulton/Silverstone should be ok for me.

Woody.

Pembrey, maybe I'll have to check.

Hey Guys

Just thought I tell you of a dedicated Formula Vee forum that I've been a member of for a while. You can reach it at formulavee.proboards2.com

It is hosted in the US but has a membership of Vee drivers, teams, suppliers, experts, etc.... from all over the world. Because of its international appeal, they created seperate sections for Ireland, UK, Australia and South Africa last week. Check it out. Its really quite good. I am not advertising against 10-10ths cause I use 10-10ths more the F Vee Interchange. I hope this isn't against 10-10ths rules.

I'm up for a gathering at pembrey, sunday night might make more sense, assuming ppl are staying sunday night. But I'll be up for any night.

I hate vees they just spew oil everywhere and cause about a hundred red flags at general test days. I would like to see them all burnt

Mackmot, don't mix your words, tell us how you really feel. Thank you for your kind offer to buy the beers for the Vee thread at pembrey, you'll be the one in the "I love scarabs" T shirt, right?

Hey av8rirl

Brands was good..... you know Brands though... cracking circuit to drive but you never quite feel you've really hooked it up, no matter how much faster you went than the last time..... Good close race.... 1st to 4th covererd by <2sec, 5th to 8th another covered by 2 secs....

Circuit seems to suit the Leastones and Sheanes better than the Spyder and Scarab..... but at least I get my own back at Snet next time out.... If ever a circuit was built for the Spyder, that's it! (Silverstone too!).....

I watched the heat from Paddock bend - looked like an excelent race with 2 six car battles going on....

Results are up on 750mc website already.

MackMot I did an afternoon test at Brands on Friday with about 4 or 5 Vees and yes there were lots of red flags....ALL caused by NON vee drivers with egos as large as the space between there ears!!!!
Brands was even better than Donington I had a fantastic 4 way race in the final with Tony Dowson, Steve Glaswell & Ian Fuller swapping places on nearly every lap. Suffered from bad oversteer on the exit of Druids and through Clearways/Clark Curve hope to cure this for Snetterton. Anyone got any advice???

Gents, I know its about Irish Vee's but here goes:-


VeeScene.com - the definitive Irish Formula Vee website - has been redeveloped for the 2003 season and is now back online.

Throughout the 2003 season, we will keep you up to date with News, Results, Championship Standings, Photo Gallery and much more. We will be sending out some emails throughout the season with more information. If you would like to be included in future emails from VeeScene.com, please send an email to info@veescene.com with "Please include me in the VeeScene.com Newsletter Mail Group" in the Subject line.

Please let us know if you would like to see particular articles, features or other items on the site.

Over the past three years, we have received on average 13,000 unique visitors per year. Please visit the site at www.veescene.com

We would like to thank "NT Systems - Partners in Technology" for sponsoring the re-development and hosting of our site. Please support our sponsor by visiting their website at www.nt-systems.com

A special thanks should also go to The FV Interchange who provide the most comprehensive Formula Vee Forum found around the globe. The FV Interchange can be found at formulavee.proboards2.com

It's Snetterton this weekend, two races on the same day so it's going to be busy!! What's Snetterton like?

Snet's a good bit faster than brands.... lots of time to be gained in the slipstream, and on the brakes.

Riches and Coram provide 'interesting' challenges.

A 15 lapper round there should be fun.

I watched the vee race at brands a couple of weeks ago - brilliant stuff! think seriously about throwing my hat in the ring!

I have entered Donnington!

BradenC
Are you going to be at Snetterton? If not I'll see you at Donington!!

riches and coram interesting challenges?

interesting you should say that as both are easy flat????

i'll agree that in the wet they are both very very interesting and at times a little scary. :eek:

Riches should be flat if you have the car well set up, confidence and a clear track. If in traffic, you will need a dab of the brake. Left foot is really useful here as you can keep the throttle flat and use the brake to settle the car. You don't want to bottle mid-corner. Be careful.

Sears is 3rd. Best to have slower entry than slower exit. The exit is most important cause you have the longest straight in the UK afterwards.

Braking for the Esses is under the bridge with a late turn in to set yourself up for the right hander. Again this is 3rd gear (but you may shift to second for the righthander in the rain - so you don't go off cam).

The Bombhole is flat from the first lap. Apex is about a yard after the suir. Most people will shift to fourth as they hit the exit kerbing. Depending on revs, it is possible to shift at the apex but be careful. Stay off the exit kerb in the rain. It is possible to take the Bombhole flat in the rain but you need the car well set up and big balls.

Coram is flat in 4th from the first lap. There are a variety of different lines that you can take and get away with. There is lots of space and grip to overtake around the outside of Coram. Even in the wet, there is lots of grip (especially on the outside - hint).

Russell is probably the second most important "corner" as it sets you up for the start/finish straight. You need to be agressive on the brakes, turn in across the kerb and be on the power early. Try to stay off the exit kerb.

Really you can overtake at any part of the circuit. Use both straights (particularly the back straight) to tow past others. If someone tries to tow off you down the back straight, remember that you can change line once. This may be enough to break the tow.

thats a good description of snet in a vee.

i am sure bomb hole is not flat in wet, this i can say with experience and a bill for a new front bar, rods and nose cone.

Then again, i was out in very very bad conditions having a little too much fun on old v.warn tyres. Lots of fun and frights till it came to a sudden end at the test before the festival last year.:beer:

well snet in a vee sounds fun - in the UTC cars I don't think riches is flat - didn't have the bottle to try it either!

Snetterton sounds like it's going to be FUN!:rotate:
Not sure if I want it to rain though. :eek:
A p**s up at Pembrey sounds like a good idea AV8R :beer:
mind you a p**s up anywhere is a good idea!!';)'

Fil I will be there.

You see.... me and the Bombhole have this thing going..... My head and heart knows it's flat but my right foot hasn't yet caught up with the joke - seems to insist on having a little flutter on the way in.

That's the trouble with the zero roll car.... all that understeer means that getting it pointed is they key.... Never quite got the faith that it's going to turn.

I've certainly not got Riches flat yet, not even close. Not even tried!

Sounds like you could do with a JESUS pedal!!!! Whats a JESUS pedal you ask????

Allegedly a former F1 great couldn't get to grips with a corner that was without a doubt flat. The driver kept lifting, stabbing the brake and then flooring the throttle while everyone else just kept the pedal to the metal.

The team came up with an ingenious fourth pedal which was fitted just above the throttle pedal. It was made of timber and didn't move or do anything at all. So the team told the driver that each time he came to this flat corner, he should use the timber pedal instead of the brake.

Still with me???

While the driver did improve his laptimes, each time he came through that particular corner he could be heard over the radio shouting "JESUS".

Hence the JESUS pedal!!! Allegedly true!

's OK..... Did it flat in the end... although had the joy, just on turn in, flat, of throwing a rod.... big noise, engine locked solid, car jumped in the air... 2 big holes in the cases - I wonder what's left on the inside???

Also, is anyone else experiencing problems with tyres...? I started the race with a new tyre (scrubbed in in qualifying) and by lap 4 I had no grip at all and when I stopped on lap 10 it was absolutely rooted....

Maybe you just got a bad set of tyres. Its happened in the past. Maybe the engine blew because it wasn't used to flat thru the Bomb Hole??? Any results yet?

Hi Ivan,

Results are available on www.750mc.co.uk.

I had a good test on The friday, Manage to sort out the Side draught carbs and got the car running well in the morning with the intention of working on the set up in the afternoon. Well as with all plans it went to s#!t. just before the lunch break in the last morning session with the car running well I turned into Russells and an Oil pipe Burst (One of the Pipes the manufacture Gaurantees not to!). Dumped 2 liters of oil over Russells (the next three cars through didnt manage to negotiate Russells) I managed to hit the Kill switch within tenths of a second but Still too late and did the Big end in. Furtunately Alan had a spare rent car with him so I still raced on Saturday. Got a good qualifying lap in the first damp session and got straight through to the final (11th on the Grid) only to change from 1st Gear to 4th on the start (it could well have been reverse the way people were going past me - at least 10 of them) managed to pull a few places back in the race only to spin out on the last lap at Riches. The two cars infront Hit a patch of oil and went sideways I gently braked only to find that my throtle was stuck wide open and I wasnt slowing enough to miss the rear end of Jamie conyers (an AHS team mate) so I had no option but to avoid hitting him by putting the car into a spin. Managed to get it pointing in the right direction by the time I hit the gravel trap and tried to gently coast it out only to find the car sinking into the gravel until eventual beached.

The rest of the day went reasonably well although disapointing results wise, seemed to be well off the pace of my last races there at the end of last season but still had a great time with some close racing with david lavington

Sounds like the 10/10ths Vee team didn't have a good weekend. Just checked the results and it looks like FilW's results are getting better.

I had an interesting weekend. Most of it was spent exploring, and exceeding, the limits of car and driver (mostly driver!!) I spun at different places in every race, but managed to get away with it, (apart from in the last race), which affected my final positions. As the day went on I felt I was getting quicker through the Bombhole & Coram and seemed to be quicker than the guys I was racing with through there, but my lap times were getting slower through the day! (must ask Father Christmas for some data logging stuff!!) and then down the straights until I changed into 4th and ran out of steam. In the 2nd final I was going well and at the end of lap 1 I was up to 21st from 28th on the grid UNFORTUNATELY I was trying to go round the outside of Tony Dowson at Coram on lap 2 and put a wheel on the grass :eek: and not long after I was brought to an abrupt halt by the tyres under the Marshalls post at Russell. I was lucky and the damage is limited to the trailing arm mount and I should be able to get it repaired before Donington next week. The first few races have been good fun and a steep learning curve and I'm looking forward to going back to Donington to see if I have improved.

how do Vee races work, i mean does everyone get 2 races and what about qualifying ? does the entry fee cover 2 races?

thanks

Originally posted by FilW
As the day went on I felt I was getting quicker through the Bombhole & Coram and seemed to be quicker than the guys I was racing with through there, but my lap times were getting slower through the day! (must ask Father Christmas for some data logging stuff!!) and then down the straights until I changed into 4th and ran out of steam.

Check tappets / valve clearance. Are you sure that you are carrying speed thru the corners? No point in being last on the brakes into the corner when the important part is corner exit (bit long straights at Snett).

In the 2nd final I was going well and at the end of lap 1 I was up to 21st from 28th on the grid UNFORTUNATELY I was trying to go round the outside of Tony Dowson at Coram on lap 2 and put a wheel on the grass :eek: and not long after I was brought to an abrupt halt by the tyres under the Marshalls post at Russell.

I know that I said theres no problem going around the outside of Coram and that theres plenty of grip. I suppose I should really have qualified that statement by saying theres loads of grip ON THE TRACK.

Originally posted by woodyracing
how do Vee races work, i mean does everyone get 2 races and what about qualifying ? does the entry fee cover 2 races?

Generally (on a normal weekend) there are two qualification sessions (a fast one and a faster one). Everyone gets one chance to qualify. Depending on track limits, the slowest x get to race in the qualifier/heat with the fastest y going straight thru to the final. The grid for the final is filled out with the top finishers from the qualifier/heat.

Still with me?

Now on some occasions there may be only 2-5 drivers more than the track capacity. In this case, there are two qualification sessions (same as above) but the last 2-5 drivers become reserves for the final i.e. there is no heat. Drivers that don't get to drive are given a refund. I've only ever seen this happen at Donington.

Still there?

Last weekend at Snett was not an ordinary weekend. It was a double header. For double headers the above is true too. The only difference is that (usually) the grid for the second race is decided by the laptimes from the first race. Again, if there are enough for a heat and a final, the slowest x get to race in the (round 2) qualifier/heat with the fastest y going straight thru to the (round 2)final. The grid for the (round 2) final is filled out with the top finishers from the (round 2) qualifier/heat.

So really it is possible for a driver to get a qualification session and four races over the weekend. This is worthwhile if you need seat-time. But if you are competing for the championship, you want to be doing only the two finals (less engine hardship and easier on tyres).

Entry cost for a double header is slightly cheaper than 2x single races. Of course if you bin it in the first race, you may drop two rounds of the championship.

ok, thanks for clearing that up. It sounds good, especially for a novice (like me).

Re: Maybe the engine blew because it wasn't used to flat thru the Bomb Hole???...

I hadn't thought of it that way before..... my car is trying to protect me from myself... So when I finally manage to get control of my right foot, my Car decides to manage the situation for me....

Interesting idea....

FilW...

I'm sure av8rirl will disagree with me(!) but round the outside at Coram isn't a usual/recommended passing place at Snetterton.... better to carry more speed out and make the move into Russell...

Having said that, I watched the 2 finals and Patrick/Mike J/Jez seemed to be 3 abreast round there on some laps so I guess it can be done!!!!!

The outside of Coram is actually a great spot for overtaking (especially in damp conditions).

Myself and Jez had a cracker for 3rd and 4th at the end of 2001. We went up the inside and around each other at Coram. Up the inside and around the outside at Russell too. The important part is to get a good run out of Russell. If you are overtaking at Coram make sure that you get yourself ready for Russell.

At a wet race in 2001 (which I won), I went around the outside of David Hall and Martin Brown for 2nd at Coram. Loadsa grip on the outside.

P.S. I also went off going around the outside of Paul Mitson at Coram in the same race while going into the lead. After a nice 720 spin, I got back on and had only lost one place.
P.P.S. Since I only raced in 2001, all my experience is from that season (not just that it was my only good season).

I was watching on Saturday and there was plenty of overtaking at Coram. I think the front 3 Vee drivers were 3 abreast on Every lap. Great racing

Sounds d biz Cregor. Heard Keno had a disaster.

As promised you can now find a new results service on the www.formulavee.co.uk web site. It contains Championship results, Graphical lap by lap analysis of all rounds (heats and finals) and a new dedicated formula vee forum. If you would like any new threads then please dont hesitate to drop me an email steve@eclipselegal.co.uk. I would appreciate ANY feedback, suggestions, comments or critic. Over the next few days we will be adding live interviews from racers within UK formula vee taken at snetterton exclusivley for www.formulavee.co.uk by a renown motorsport correspondent.

regards
Steve

Will I ever get out.

After testing at snetterton today, my first outing in a vee, we need to work further on the car. I will not be at Donington and can kiss my entry fee goodbye. Sick as a pike. But you haven't seen the last of me yet. I WILL get a race this year.

Im going to try to get there for Sunday, although my road car is a little unreliable at the moment.

Hi Braden, what was the problem with the car? How did you enjoy driving a Vee?

Something to do with some flaky bearings that have been floating about, no ones fault really. But donington was was my only chance for a championship race this year. Thinking I need to buy a car now.

Had a whale of a time at Snett, just a shame it ended a bit premature.

I am sure everyone will join me in wishing FilW all best after todays "incident" at Donington.

Fil was involved in a 3 car collsion at the start of the heat and was subsequently stretchered away, as far as I could see he was sitting up and concious.

Hope you and the car are not injured too badly and the Vee thread wish you both a speedy recovery.

Brade

Can you tell me who won the final please?

I believe Jez won the final.

Let us know more about FilW. Or FilW, when you get back, let us know what happened.

Hi all. I'm OK. The doctor was rightly being cautious because my kneck was sore. X-rays showed all was where it should be. I'm just stiff now but I think this is more to do with being taped on a spinal board and in a neck collar staring at the ceiling for 3 hours! On first inspection the car seems not too bad considering. Broken steering rack, right hand rear trailing arm mount partly ripped off and various dents! I'll have a better look in a couple of weeks. I'm not sure exactly how it started I think I banged wheels with a car I was overtaking which spun me across the track and I think I was difficult to miss!:banghead: Not sure how the others fared but I hope things are OK.

Get a neck and back massage from a qualified person to sort out the stiff neck. 2-3 sessions will sort it out good.

Make sure that you get the car sorted quickly and get out racing again soon. Its probably a fact of life that we'll all have a 'big' off at some stage. Now that its out of the way, theres nothing stopping you (apart from the missus - best not to tell her everything) going on to better things.

Did you get t-boned? roll? or what? Where did it happen? With who?

Yes Jez wont the final - good race with Patrick... Lead seemed to change quite a lot of times.

I had a grandstand seat, sat in 9th. Couldn't quite get on the pace this weekend - able to sit on the back of the main group (different engine to normal and some brake trouble) but couldn't anything about anyone in front of me. Slightly disappointing to be 1 second slower per lap than last time, but c'est la vie.

Still, it was a good race to watch!

It was a great race. There were plenty of changes in the lead between Clarke and Sherrington.
On the first start in the qualifier FilW (must be 50) was spun on the straight and sat looking the wrong way for what seemed like an age but was probally only 1 or 2 secs. before being hit by 2 cars. I was at the chicane so didn't have the best view but he was blessed not to be hit earlier.
Hope you ok FilW.

Here's 2 shots from the incident. It must be a nightmare to sit the wrong way round on the straight like that.http://cregornews.com/ten03.jpg


http://cregornews.com/ten04.jpg

its lucky you weren't seriously hurt there when you see those pics.

Did no one vault over you?

Great pics Mr. E

It must be a nightmare to sit the wrong way round on the straight like that

You're not wrong there:censored: :bag:

I imagine being caught in a elephant stampede would give a similar feeling :eek:

Trying to reverse along the straight isn't a startline technique I would recommend!!

How the feck did you arrive at that position before most of the other cars? This really is a mystery now. Good pics blackfalcon. I reckon they are worth a few quid (to FilW if no one else).

FilW, you can probably buy these from blackfalcon (he's a pro photographer specialising in Vee's at many of the 750MC meetings).

I bought a Vee on friday! I'am away at the moment but I'll tell you all about it and post a pic when I get back.

Some ppl may know the car "the green tomato".

So who's car is that?

Vee's a great- a little slippy, but i had raced a season ina Jedi, very fun stuff, but i switched to the scream of f500, 500cc twostroke opewheelers, a bit faster and no tranny justa CVT so it was more videogame esque. I 'd say more fun almost...but that didn't last, Formula FOrd best rcing I'd say but gets expensive, I would like to try rad racing in Legends-anybody done that?

Has everything gone quiet on the Vee front??? bradenc, I thought you'd be posting pics of the new car!!

Yeah I dropped the ball there promise I will post pics this week, can't find my stupid camera.

Anyway in the process of getting the car squared away, i have got a few questions, is there an age limit on seatbelts, or do they just have to be in good condition? Is a hand held AFF extinguisher permisable?

The blue book does not give an age limit on belts, and seems to me hand held extinguisher is ok too.

I forget the name of the person that owned the car, I think he passed away a year or two ago, but I bought it from his wife Madeline, lovely lady.

when I got the car it was ready to go, bar the rain light and jump plugs. Now it's in a few more pieces while I mess with it.

Don't know the exact regs but all seatbelts have an expiry date on them. A normal AFF extinguisher if plumbed in and wired for activation from within the cockpit and from outside (by the marshalls) is OK I think. I'll see if I can find the proper regs.

Was his name Geoff Moore?

Yes, I think thats him!

My extinguisher is not plumbed, and although my belts have a year of manufacture, they have no expirey and I have seen cars go through without year of manufacture even. Ah well I guess some friendly scrutineer will let me know.

I'm gonna do a vee race this year - I've decided

There should be a few cars to hire. Go to one of the race meetings and you'll find all the details. Theres at least three people who will hire you a good (read competitive) car.

Originally posted by bradenc

The blue book does not give an age limit on belts, and seems to me hand held extinguisher is ok too.



I'd buy new belts Braden. For the sake of £120 you know that the belts are A1. Mind you a vee in front of me at scrutineering at Donington earlier in the season had belts dated 1983!! The scrut said he should think about changing them!. Will you have the car sorted for Cadwell? I haven't got round to straightening my car yet, I hope to tackle it next weekend if my new rack turns up. Hope to get to Cadwell on the friday to test but it's a bl**dy long way from here!!!

I won't be out for a little while yet, car is more or less ready, but I want to get some tesing miles under my belt first.

Thing is my belts are in A1 condition, but I see what your saying about knowing the history so maybe I'll invest.

I see your looking for a race truck Fil, you just missed a couple on ebay, boound to be more though.

It seems very quiet on the Vee front at the moment. Everyone doing Cadwell? Where are those pics Braden?

Sorry about the quality, lots of dust in the air.

You can do better than that

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I think the vee thread may finally have died :(

worth noting that it has been the most viewed and replied to thread in single seaters......

Originally posted by bradenc
I think the vee thread may finally have died :(

Not dead just resting! It's seems to have been an age since the last race and Cadwell is still a few weeks away. My car still needs some work.This weekend we made up a new suspension mount to replace the one ripped off at Donington but the new rack I got is a different size to the one on the Ari. This is causing a few problems but I hope to be sorted for Cadwell. What is Cadwell like (apart from a long way away!!)?? How's your car coming along Braden?

I am waiting for for a few items to show up (jump plugs, rain light etc..) but apart from that I need to refit fuel tank, seat and battery, then I think it's done. There are some dents in the push rod tubes and we are having some debate as to wether I should replace them. I think I am going to replace them. If I could spend a whole weekend on it then I'd be done. However I now have another project. Bought a camper on friday to tow with and sleep in at tracks and I need to fit the towbar on to that which looks to be a bigger job than anticipated.

Where did everyone get their transponders from?

ss_colins, have you found a car yet? When will we see you?

Like FilW said, the Vee thread is like Elvis. Not dead, just takin a break!!

Once the summer break is over, I'm quite sure it'll take off again.

Whs Cadwell like? Well its not one of my favourites. I think its my boggie track. After racing there four times, still haven't had a finish (all down to car problems not driver). Are you racing the long (mountain) track or the short track?

when is cadwell? is it the long or short track.? i may be tempted to give it a shot.

28/29 June, not sure what track.

Hi,

Sat 28th on the short track

anyone know how much lateral Gforce a Vee can generate ?
i think a FF can generate 2G.

Now you know sparrow, will we see you there?

Does anyone know anything about the "new" vee making it debut at cadwell? Is it called a Marauder?

Who is racing it? I do know of someone building a car (approx 2 yeards ago) but not sure how far the project got.

Don't know, it was supposed to be out at Donnington, but at donnington it was certain for cadwell. Marcus Pye said something about it from the commentry box and the was a paragraph in autosport. I think there's a yank involved in it.

car hire - does anyone know of where I can hire a FVee from to "have a go"???

For race hire your best bet is to get yourself to Cadwell this weekend and talk to some people - if you can make it friday for the test day even better.

Otherwise if you post your eMail address, I'm sure I can point you in a direction.. as can others....

If you want to talk at the weekend, I'm in car #9.

So how did we all go at Cadwell?

I'll bet FilW is still driving back. ;)

Got home at 6:30pm on Sunday night!!!!!Had to sleep on Saturday night.........just went on sleeping halfway through Sunday!!!:banghead:

I had a mixed weekend. Qualifiying went OK except for a gear selection problem that meant 3rd gear was missed occasionally. Still 11th on the grid for the heat was OK. Sorted the gear problem and managed to climb to 8th at the finish and claim last place on the grid for the final. Started to get to grips with the track and caught Mike Fenwick with two laps to go but couldn't get by! Was pleased to post the 2nd fastest lap time of the heat. In the final I made a good start and made up a few places and despite a very wild ride over the grass at the Gooseneck spent most of the race desperately trying to outbrake Mike Fenwick at the hairpin but never quite succeeding :eek: :eek: Had to retire on lap 8 because I lost 2nd & 4th gears :banghead: Cadwell is a stunning circuit and I can't wait to get back there again and do the long track (money permitting!!!!)

cadwell is stunning. you have got to do the long track! i did it last year and it was a great experience. would have done the vee race there this year if it was the long track as i really enjoyed it. plus i need to take care of some unfinished business thereas well. hope everyone in vee is good, and hello to guru storer if he's reading the thread.

Are folks still up for meeting at pembrey on Saturday night? Can anyone suggest a good location?

ooh poop, im going on holiday on that weekend. I'll try to make other Vee races though.

I'll drink woodys beer for him, who's bringing the beer?

You found a car yet woody?

Im not ready to buy yet, until i move location (preferably midlands area). Ive kinda decided to go for a Sheane because they look ok and there seems to be plenty about. I also like the look of a Ray but parts might be hard to find, what do you reckon ?

do any of you buy cars, parts or services from AHS ?
is there any other place you'd recommend ?

cheers.

i understand the ray is a splendid car, very good lookin. Parts should be no problem, I think John Bowles can supply you all you need.
But it is harder to setup, and more expensive when bent.

I bought a sheane, and theres plenty about, they're a good strong car too. scarabs are pleantyful (Andy Storer) but I dont think they look as nice.

If I had the money I'd have a GAC or a spyder, gorgeous cars.

Look at the race resultsits possible to find scarab, sheane, spyder, ray, gac all in the top ten.

My advice (and my advice is worth very little at this stage) would be to go for a sheane.

Were "Rays" actual FF1600 race cars ? because in recent FF1600 entry lists I never see them.

Yes they were, but the vee's are obvoiusly conversions and have some significant mods on them I guess.

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=659953#post659953

can anyone help identify this old Vee?

In terms of buying a chassis, you would be well advised to have a good look at who goes well in that chassis and, also, whether you plan to run it yourself or have someone run it for you.

Probably worth talking to some people as well. It might even pay to rent a drive in a properly sorted one just to get to know what it 'should' feel like.

I don't think there are any 'previously enjoyed' GAC's on the market - you might be able to find a 2nd hand Spyder (I did) and if you do you wont go far wrong with it - but people dont tend to sell them.

Scarab's, Sheane's and Leastones all seem to go well in the right hands.... I do recall that Trevor Welsh's championship winning Leastone from last year was for sale earlier this year (not sure if it went)... Of course, buying that would only go to show you how much more you have to learn!!!!!

Also, it depends on your budget. You're probably better off spending £5 to £6k on a good properly sorted 2nd hand car than buying a £3k one....

Then, you'll need to find someone to do your engines. The list is endless!


In terms of Cadwell, nipped a piston ring on the 2nd lap... DNF... not having much luck (having thrown a con rod at Snet).. c'est la vie.

well I'm happy with my 1969 Austro.

did you buy it then ss ?

yep he did!

av8rirl......are you going to make it to Pembrey?
Braden......see you at the BBQ????

I'll be there from late thursday onwards. av9rirl, I have a red ldv motorhome with a white roof on it, should be able to find me, if not JB will point me out. Did you get a car for pembrey?

FilW, you must be pleased with your grid mover score!

I hear theres a classic vee series in the offing?

I think more likely to be a handful of races rather than a series.

Not sure why this is required, older vee's can still be competetive in FVee. Anyone know what makes a classic Vee?

being old?

Got to be more to it than that, Old chassis are out there now and capable of winning!

well mines very old indeed! apparently can be eligible for FIA historic papers

Does it differ much from the vee cars of today in its construction? Is it ready to go? Will you bring it to pembrey?

Surely front beam, brakes, engine, gearbox, rear axles are all the same?

Hehehehe
I am a F_vee racer from Tasmania. A creaking old 1969 Elfin with Nimbus bodywork with a creaking older 1959 driver! Any of you Oz vee racers coming down to the Vee nationals at Baskerville in October?

nowhere near ready to go yet, apparently there are differences between a early car and a modern one parts wise

Looking forward to seeing it, do you have an engine to rebuild?

not as yet as I've not really got started on the car at all yet, am currently finishing off a two seater special for sportscar/saloon racing at Lydden. The I'll get crackin on the Vee - I want only original bits and bobs - also am gonna adapt a 60's style VW bus to be the transporter. I may be to tall for it so I might put the whole lot on the market.

go on, you'll squeeze in it.

I hope so - can anyone give exact race dates (any vee race) in 67, 68, 69, 70? cheers (I'm in the autosport archive looking for pictures of the works austro team