What sportscar would you give to your 21 year old?

Hypothetical question. You have a budget of £8,000 to cover purchase and insurance of a present for your 21 year old. (Son/Daughter, God Daughter/Son).

So, its got to be fun, reliable, insurable, and a good 'trainer', furthermore,you can't expect the greatful 21 year old to be skilled or patient enough to build up a kit or 'special'.

I suggest a well sorted Porsche 924. The engines in the right place, parts are from VW..... Otherwise perhaps a Fiat 124 2000cc Pininfarina Sports, but they are getting a bit long in the tooth and are lhd. If I lived in the USA perhaps a Pontiac Fiero, with the optional European Sports pack, I once had a wonderful day with one borrowed from the late Mark Dees, zipping through the California Sierras!

Whether the age to be the donor or recipient, let your fantasies rip!

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head right first time Eclectic, although if you get the wrong 924, you’ll blow your complete criteria list out in one go.

Otherwise I’d suggest a 205/GTi hot hatch, on model down – the one that’s not got the badges and trick name, but the same engine and running gear – the ‘lux’, not the GTi. Good for learning on.

It sounds like the perfect excuse to go to Italy and pick up a sweet Barchetta and live with lhd, I’d have thought? I still fancy 3 litre Capris. Next step up would be 968 Clubsport which was a super car, right next to RSs in fact.

I'd say a 1.8 MX-5. But if this is a son/godson, he'll hate you forever.

Second generation RX-7s are quite nice.

My fantasies (right at that age) currently revolve around early long wheelbase 911s. ;)

Fieros are actually worse to insure than 911s here.

And of course, there are the ubiquitous ponycars. Mustang, Camaro and Firebird/Trans Am.

This isn't turning into much of a debate, I'm afraid. I would have said a Porsche 924 or an early 944 would be an ideal choice.

Curiously, the opinion of the clubs is that an early production 944 is going to be more bullet-proof than a later one.

Another possibility, for the UK, anyway, is the Rover 220 Turbo coupe. They're getting cheap now, but the youngest ones are still really quite recent. They're quick, while not being too quick, and while the engine does drive the wrong pair of wheels, the chassis is sound and forgiving, and will help the youngster out of most situations they put themselves in.

At 21 years old I would get them a Lada and with the rest of the money send them to a really good racing school. Let them learn in a save enviroment. After the school buy them some rides at a few race tracks.

Hmm... If you really want to teach them a few things about mechanical maintanence and driving skill, try a later Spitfire. ;)

Ouch! My first everyday car was a five year old Triumph Herald, which I believe shares its rear suspension with the 'Spit'. What a horror it was, all it taught me was what not to drive! My first car that was a good drive, was a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe' 1600cc twinkie, but what a rustbucket. So much better than the Triumph so maybe Hans.ca's suggestion of a Lada is not so far out?

Anyway keep up the suggestions, I think I could stretch to the racing school as an extra over the budget!

The Herald would have taught you a thing or two about oversteer - and that steering lock. In more drunken moments I thought they would make a great 'one-make' series !!
The 2 litre 6 cyl. Vitesse was OK when they redesigned the rear end!

MG Midget. BTW, the later Spittys had the rear end sorted out, but they haven't stood the test of time like an MG. Consider the classic insurance, spares availability, access to the biggest single marque clubs in the world, simple maintenance etc. etc.
I mean, if he really prangs it, you can even buy a new body shell for these cars...

I had a Herald once. That rear end was lethal, particularly if the bolts fixing the radius arms (?) to the chassis had worked loose. The biggest fright I ever had was taking a corner at the same speed as I had in my previous car, a Mini. I got round (just).

Better still I would give our 21 year old a Skoda Octavia GT. With the swing axle rear end this snapped into terminal oversteer quicker than an early 911, but at half the speed. Once he (she) had scared themselves a few times and learnt to drive properly, I'd let them have the rest of the money to get whatever they wanted.
Could you get a Datsun 240Z for under £8000

Ooo! Can't believe I forgot the 240Z!

Speaking of Japanese cars, the early Celicas the last rear-drive Corolla/Sprinters are very nice handling cars, and have a certain quirky coolness about them.

With petrol costing what it does, you could improve mileage, performance and mechanical skill by swapping in a more recent powerplant! :)

With 8,000 pounds you couldnt go past a Ford Sierra Cosworth could you? There seem a fair few around for somewhere near the 5,000 pound mark, the rest can go on rebuilding the engine or indeed insurance :)

Ooo! Can't believe I forgot the 240Z!

Speaking of Japanese cars, the early Celicas the last rear-drive Corolla/Sprinters are very nice handling cars, and have a certain quirky coolness about them.

If he likes older cars, you should be able to get a very nice 105 series (1970s) Alfa GTV or Lancia Fulvia for that kind of money..

at last someone showing some taste! 1750 Bertone 105 is the probably the best and if you buy one with a good body you will have given hiim a first class investment as well! Plus he can then get it out racing in Julius' excellant GTA Challenge in the strada class!

I would have suggested a mk1 Toyota MR2, if you can find a straight rust free one, a great car just wish I never sold mine.

Spend £800 on a RWD '86 Toyota Corolla from Ireland and drift into the night...

go east - a classic skoda.

None -- they should earn their own car and then they'd take care of it. Also pay their own insurance.

But I agree that after he/she had bought that car, I'd give the money for a course at a really good driving school like the Porsche School.

I agree Liz, nothing is ever truly respected unless it is earned :)

Simon (and all):

I've actually been looking for a nice Alfa 105 series 1750 (only imported to the US from '69 to '71) or an early stepnose 1600 (GTA body style) for some time that hasn't been butchered with modifications, but here in the US they are very difficult to find unless you want to buy one and restore it yourself....and difficult even then. :(

Well Liz, public transport being nearly nonexistant here, my parents buying me a rusty but dependable car for $500 was dependant on my finding a summer job (3 years ago), but necessary to commute back and forth from that job.

OOOOh its gone all political! Where os the fantasy thread I started! Of course its better to earn your own car, my first was a VW splitscreen van in which I set off with 5 friends for Khatmandu--- we never got that far but thats another story. Still I was hoping to unearth opinions on the affordable sports cars of today.

Incidentally dretceterini a friend of mine in the USA has a little Alfa from the 70's called a Velocissima, don't know much about it except I borrowed it for a track day once and it was FUN!

If you are looking for a Bertone Alfa there are two reliable specialists in UK, Alfaholics (who have a web site) and Gran Turismo (who dont but advertise in the mags). I have dealt with both of them (I am on my 4th one now!)and they are both very good and in the case of Alfaholics will know good contacts in US. From my experience (which is primarily racing them)they are great cars and fantastic to drive!

You could also pick up early MGF's for that money.

I would by him a talbot lotus sunbeam and for that money you would easily get an immaculate one at that they are in my eyes a true holligans cars ...short wheelbase pokey 2.2 lotus twin cam (907 type) brace of webers/dellortos and rear wheel drive,it'll teach him oversteer and how to drive a car that tends to pop and cough in traffic not like todays modern cars!! i love em!!!!

Simon:

I've had MANY Alfas; mainly 750, 101, 102 and 106 series cars. I've had a couple of 105s too...but not recently. In the last 5 years a really good 105 has been VERY difficult to come by. My ideal one would be a '67 1600 step nose or a '69 1750 with the neat seats. I want an ORIGINAL car, which makes it even more difficult...I've found a couple of things for around $3,000...but they needed $10,000 worth of parts and work to make correct..
Currently looking at a couple of Fulvias including a 1300HF (1600s are IMPOSSIBLE here) at prices near what I can afford. Strangely, Fulvias are easier to find here!

I once raced a 1300 and would strongly urge you to go down the 1600 route! From an investment standpoint the 1600 HF is always going to be easier to move on. The problem abt 105's is that if you buy a basket case it will take £20 000 to restore yet an immaculate one is only £10-12 000. There are good LHD ones around. Sorry to show my ignorance but what are 102 and 106 cars?

Crikey - even if its a hypothetical question - some of the offers here are amazing...at that age I was only just allowed to drive my Dad's mini panel van - and that was after I had learned some simple maintenance....

Shortly there after I got my first MG Midget - if ever there was a fun, cheap car for learning the basics and having a blast then that is it... besides being easily modified and raced, its just plain fun - although probably not as glamourous as most 21 year olds would like to have...

Originally posted by Liz
None -- they should earn their own car and then they'd take care of it. Also pay their own insurance.

But I agree that after he/she had bought that car, I'd give the money for a course at a really good driving school like the Porsche School.

Absolutely spot-on, Liz. Too may spoilt brats on the road with cars paid for by rich Daddy (guess whose impoverished Daddy never bought him a car?). And being entirely selfish, if I had that kind of money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd spend it on a car for myself and the sprog could make his/her own arrangements.

Simon:

The 102 series Alfas are the cast iron 2 liters from 1958-1962...kind of like uprated 1900s, and came in saloons, roadsters and coupes (only about 6 of the 704 coupes built are known to exist today!)

The 106 series cars are the straight 6 2600s from 1963-1967 and also came in saloons, roadsters and coupes, plus a Zagato version. I like the styling and they are very comfortable, albeit a bit larger road cars. The 102s are not really suitable for any kind of competition. The 106 coupes did fairly well in their class in distance events such as Spa back in their day.

And there's a 2600 Sprint coupe still doing sterling service in historic touring cars in England today, in the hands of Nick Savage. Beautiful car....

Although I have also seen photographic evidence of one being used in a demolition derby.

Does the word sacrilege spring to your mind too?

I'm aware of Nick's 2600 sprint...I'm still a member of the 102/106 series register although I haven't had one in about 7 years. Back in their day (and today too) they aren't really very competitive except in long distance races and only really in their class...not for any kind of high overall placeing. They do make very nice road cars though, and can climb a 70 degree bank with no problem...they have something like a 3:30 to 1 first gear and a 4.66:1 rear end ratio!

Well my two nieces would only get the best, a couple of 246 Dino's I think.

Pity Corgi only made the models in red as pink is their colour.

As for real cars, I'll wait to see want they want in 19 years time

Simon

Originally posted by SL
Well my two nieces would only get the best, a couple of 246 Dino's I think.

Pity Corgi only made the models in red as pink is their colour.

As for real cars, I'll wait to see want they want in 19 years time

Simon

Simon, I'm sure there dad would find room in his garage for one so he could keep it 'safe'.

Nick's racing of the 2600 is a real labour of love altho I think he has now sorted the handling out. He did have it for sale as he has bought a GTA. this car has seen several trips to Goodwood as well as Top Hat etc.. He also has an SZ so I guess it would be fair to say he likes Alfa's! I am testing my Alfa on Saturday at Goodwood - cant wait its been a long time since I last saw it and hopefully all last years gremlins have been ironed out!

I would get him a Fiat 500 coz those are really fun to drive and race!
And it would comfortably fit in a $8000 budget too.

Hell, even i would want to have one of those!

Fiat 500? I rather have a REAL Fiat 500...the Topolino from 1936 through 1948...with some period Italian speed equipment. Maybe all the way from 13 to 20 horsepower!

Fiat 500? BLEH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After this piece of garbage I've got now, I'm never driving another car with less than 100hp!

That sort of response is exactly what i expected from Americans who have wide streets and ditto cars...


Try driving one of those "muscle cars" or whatever in the narrow streets of Europe...

Power is nothing without control. (yes, ripped off from Pirelli, i know)

There have been a few American cars suited to European roads if no the byways of England, but my personal experience stopped short at the Pontiac Fiero!

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
That sort of response is exactly what i expected from Americans who have wide streets and ditto cars...


Try driving one of those "muscle cars" or whatever in the narrow streets of Europe...

Power is nothing without control. (yes, ripped off from Pirelli, i know)

Bah. Why would I ever get behind the wheel of a gutless Fiat 500 when I could _at_least_ get a Mini Cooper down the same roads? Even better, though, an MR2 or an MGF.

Just because we _haven't_ built cars really suited to Europe, doesn't mean we _can't_. We got _so_ close when we built the Corvair, but it was killed by safety Nazis. And then again with the Fiero, which was killed by the insurance industry.

Why would you get behind the wheel of a Fiat 500? Because silly little cars like Isettas, Gogomobiles, Hinkels and Fiats are fun...

Oh yes...and Citroen 2CV's I may have prestige old cars in my garage but I have a 1964 2CV as my everyday second car, If you have ever seen 2CV racing in England or 2CVcross here in France you will know what I mean!

That said its hardly a sports car, and I've just got back in from my first run this spring in my 1935 Talbot Lago T120 drophead coupe' which lurks in my barn here. 3 litres of joy.

This sound like an interesting garage. My mate has a GP TL. I think he's lost a packet on it! I'm seeing him tomorrow at Silverstone, I'll ask him which one it is.

eclectic: any particular reason why French cars? I wouldn't mind a Delage or Delahaye, but prefer Alfas and Lancias. I've had some oddball French cars like 2 Matra Jets (a 5S and a 6), A CG-Simca coupe, and a DB5.

I call myself Eclectic cos that describes my collection!
At present, in age order I have a Stutz Bearcat 1918, no front wheel brakes, on the road, Alvis 12/50 Duck'sback 1925,no fwb, otr, 1930 Bugatti T44, otr, Talbot Lago T120 1935 3 litre, otr, Citroen 2CV 1957 ripple bonnet, almost finished and a 2Cv 1964 otr. Far too much work, so something has to go. The T44 is for sale. As I live in France the emphasis in on French cars....

Eclectic indeed!

I'd love the T44, but am sure it's out of my price range...

Make it an old, slow sports car -like an MGB - that requres a bit of TLC. This might encourage a deeper interest in these things beyond the usual pathetic fashion statement.

MX5?

Go Rotary!

The 2nd generation Mazda RX7 is quite good for beginners and not very expensive.

RX7 might be not so expensive to buy, but defenetly is more expensive to repair than more traditional engines. How about buying a TransAm or a Camaro. Those engines are very difficult to broke and if one manages to break it, it should be much more cheaper to rebuild than a Mazda Rotary.

Im a 17 year old and i'd give myself a GT40 if i could afford it, i'll settle for a Triumph Herald please dad.

I glad that others have suggested a 105 alfa before me (strength in numbers?), but if you're looking at a classic sports car, they are great for all ages, although for an inexperienced driver, the later Alfetta GTV might be a sounder choice (less inclined to oversteer).

An Alfetta GTV was the first car I ever owned (coincidently, I was 21 at the time). It was great, if a bit more expensive to maintain than my mates' cars. It had a bigger rear seat :p than the 105 too, important at that age!

I think a 2 liter 105 series car might actually be cheaper to maintain than a Alfetta GTV. Personally, I'm not a big Alfetta fan, but my good friend and all time American Alfa nut Pat Braden (who appsed away last August) loved them...

Sorry to hear about Pat - he will be much missed

Rubber couplings along could swing the cost argument away from the Alfetta - but they are great cars (and this is coming from a dedicated 105 fan)- more or a grand tourer than an out and out sports car though.

I must confess that an Alfetta GTV6 has always been on my shopping list, but in the British climate, the rust has a 0-60 acceleration time all of its own...

There are very, very few nice ones left, sad to say.

having had one I would agree with Tim's comments. I was very relieved when I sold it! But the noise was superb!

I'm surprised nobody has said Lotus or Caterham 7

Can you do that within budget? Insurance for a 21 yo would be very hairy on a Caterham!

Caterhams (or Lotus 7s) are great fun, but not exactly practical...A Mazda Miata (MX5) would be a good modern, fairly reliable and inexpensive choice...

Caterhams are about as practical as motorbikes, and half as sexy.

Miatas are great... For girls. You'd need to add a turbo kit, a roll bar, and some other go-fast bits for a male driver not to look rather light in the loafers.

Much variety here, although 21 is a bit young for some of these vehicles both from a safety and insurance point of view. Yes, I know I am taking this far too seriously, so how about this? Provided the 21 has had 2/3 years driving experience, I suggest a BMW 2002, preferably a Tii. You'd get change from £8000 which you could put towards insuring it under a limited mileage classic car policy. As Eclectic says, engine and drive is in the right place, and I would add that it would probably be less fickle than an Alfa for a relatively impecunious 21 year old. Oh, sorry, I'm trying to be sensible again!