Fuel pricing in the UK

OK folks - the dump the pumps campaign failed miserably but, this afternoon, i've received a fax which is circulating among hauliers, farmers and in general industry - we are, it seems, finally going to learn something from the French...

18th Spetember will be a day of direct action outside ports and fuel refineries - with the intention, not of bringing the country to a stop, but of demonstrating what will happen if the goverment continues putting working men out of business with huge tax hikes on fuel. If they carry on doing this, the country will grind to a halt as no-one can afford to run wagons anymore.

It seems that a continuing protest at Shell's Stanlow oil refinery near Ellesmere Port in Cheshire is a major success, and Shell are reporting that the protest will have an effect on petrol stations throughout the North of England from this evening.

Let's hope this gets the message across - it'll be about time.

In principle, I'm in favour.

The trouble is, it all seems so....


French.

Think back 30 years Tim - the British led the world in direct action back then. It very nearly could have bankrupted the entire country but, if this carries on, the goverment will be doing that to us anyway...

Oh, I'm certainly in favour of doing SOMETHING about this. Don't forget I used to drive for a living myself.

It's just that I've spent the last few years watching the French being bloody-minded and singling out Brits abroad when it comes to making their point, and getting hot under the collar about it.

Even yesterday on the news, I watched a tractor waiting to close a road into Calais - it let several local cars past, and then selected a British registered Vauxhall Cavalier as the car it was going to drive in front of to start a blockade.

I'd just hate to think that we were in any way emulating that.

Did you, Tim ? I like you! :) Who did you drive for, what did you drive ?

Don't worry about the bloody-minded thing - it's just the French being ther French.

What was I doing as a driver? Well, I was a courier for law firms in Hertfordshire, taking legal documents which needed to be in the hands of courts and other firms of solicitors, and which could not be entrusted to hired motorcyclists.

Plus it was more seemly for a legal brief to arrive at a solicitor's office delivered by a chap in a tie, who has stepped out of a Saab 9-5, rather than a chap with waterproofs and a skid-lid.

Not that I have anything against motorcycle couriers. Damon Hill was one.

And if you ever see the Vauxhall Corsa making a point of giving commercial vehicles their braking distances, and covering for them when they want a lane change - that'll be me, because driving from Dover to Doncaster and all points in between, gave me a very healthy regard for the folks who drive the "heavies".



I've just had a thought. Given enough cars, we could do a drive to rule. Every motorway jammed up with people doing PRECISELY 70mph. Not more, not less. I guarantee that will gum up the works beautifully, because the only way this road system works is because of the speedier journey times afforded by people driving at safe, high speed.

I remember we discussed this a few months ago - a bit before your time, WVM.

The idea to increase awareness of the plight of the UK motorist is a good one; not just those that use the roads in the course of their business, such as yourself, but also those that rely on the vehicles themselves, and not just to get from A to B. I'm a motor engineer by trade, and I've noticed a drop in turnover recently. People are prepared to pay that little extra for fuel in order to keep moblie (if that's what it takes), but are skimping on other things, like servicing and minor repairs, simply because the money isn't there.

I agree with all the arguments against fuel price increases. Travel prices increase, Cost of goods increase, due to distribution costs, etc...

But the problem isn't just with the goverment. Although the 80% fuel tax we discussed all those threads ago still exists, any increase we see in next few days will be down to the increases in the cost of crude oil... and that's down to OPEC.

"..the dump the pumps campaign failed miserably.."

Blair has gone on record as saying that every penny reduction in the fuel prices will result in fewer nurses, hospital beds, school excercise books etc.

What do we do? We'll pay one way or the other. The Bar-stewards... ;)

Seemed appropriate to move this topic back up to the top. What's happening in your neck of the woods folks?
I'm here in the North West and the local radio has just been announcing petrol stations which still have fuel, basically that amounted to just a handful of petrol stations across the whole North West.
This morning I spent 25 minutes going down a road that normally takes 5 minutes, the reason, everyone queueing at the petrol station at Moss Nook. Later in the day when they had a delivery at lunchtime they were reporting hour long queues of over 40 cars at that garage, when I passed there at just gone 5 they were out of fuel again.
One of my neighbours and one of my friends both own garages and they were saying on Saturday that they'd had people into their garages for replacement petrol tanks because people have resorted to drilling or bashing holes in petrol tanks to steal the petrol:( Surely we can expect more of this when the garages who do have fuel are cashing in. One garage in Bolton put its prices up 16 pence a litre this morning. Something needs to be done and lets hope this is resolved quickly.
Also it is reported that the taxi drivers are joining the lorry drivers and farmers and this evening they carried out a blockade of Liverpool city centre.
It's easy to think that this will cripple the roads, but public transport isn't a viable alternative - buses and trains are bing cancelled because of a lack of diesel.
I work in a museum and to give you an indication it's a museum that gets nearly 200,000 visitors a year. Today I'd say that our visitors (excluding schools) could probably be counted in single figures, people just aren't going to travel to our sort of location when fuel is in such short supply:(

Well, well, well... seems the fax I received last week was a red herring thrown in to stop the petrol companies preparing as they would would have wished, and to increase the effectiveness of the campaign.

It certainly has done that - I was in the north of England yesterday, and much of the place was at a standstill as far as petrol goes. Back down south today, the full effects are just becoming apparent - forecourts closed, huge queues, major panic buying.

I made a total of 10 deliveries today - every single person I spoke to, without fail, was totally behind the protests. I filled a total of three trucks (and my car!) to the brim today - and it was that bad that once i'd fought my way to the front of the queue at one location, the bloody pump cut out half way through filling up, and the little bloke had to come out with yet another 'sorry - no more fuel' sign...

West Sussex fire brigade are refusing to go to non-emergency call outs, buses are being cancelled, refuse collections postponed. Looks like this protest is one with real bite - and it's about time that someone stood up to the goverment and their rip off taxes.

Many companies are reporting 40-50% of their stations are closed - with 75% expected to be closed tommorrow. At that point, expect a minor panic to ensue in the area of Whitehall, and i'd not be surprised to see the army mobilised. Let's hope that Mr Blair remembers there's an election soon... :)

Come on folks, get behind this protest - we all need your support. I'll report back here tommorrow with the latest 'news from the road'... :)

I am very concerned about this. As I said in a previous post, something needs to be done, but the consequences of this boycott could be difficult to imagine.

Let's say that the largely 'pro-green' Labour Government (LG) announces after two months of sheer hell on the roads ('cos that's what it'll take) that they are prepared to drop fuel prices by 20%. (Even this seems a huge concession to me, and I'm not in government!!) We will pay in other ways.

If the LG does this, expect to see an increase on VAT (sales tax to non-Brits) to, say, 20% instead of the current 17 1/2%.

I also anticipate an increase in road fund licence and possibly even income tax at the next budget. The LG are saying that there are not enough pennies in the kitty as it is. To reduce the revenue on fuel by 'only' 20%, has to result in increases elsewhere.

Let's be honest; For the LG to simply keep prices the same (due to OPEC prices) will require a tax cut. And this still won't be acceptable (to us). :(

At the moment, companies and to a lesser extent, individuals are really cheesed at the cost of fuel. Imagine if it bit you in the wallet regardless of whether you use a car or not! Then we'll see the army out!

Please don't imagine for one moment that I'm in support of high fuel prices! That's just daft! But I think we should all be aware of what could happen if we are successful.

What do you think?

The trouble is that the tax is around 75% (not sure of the exact figure) so this means that for every dollar the oil companies increase their prices, the price at the pump goes up $1.75 - the goverment are raking it in when the oil companies increase their prices - they're never gonna do anything about that unless the point is made.

And anyway, this increased cost is passed indirectly to the consumer in the High Street, so I don't see that it'd make a huge difference anyway. And why should this tax be on fuel anyway ? I could understand the taxes raised going to public transport, road maintenece or enviromental schemes, but why does it just go into the central goverment coffers ?

I think that they should reduce fuel tax to a sensible level, and then increase the higher band of income tax to 45p in the pound. Maybe even introduce a 35p band too for medium earners ?

All the petrol station in West Wales have run out of petrol, the police had to be called to two local garages because of people fighting for the last drops of petrol and one garage would only give you £10 pounds of petrol at a time until they ran out. The local Ambulance service has stopped doing non-emergency calls.

Luckily I live in town so can walk to work, the shops and the hospital, but if I want to go any where else, like Silverstone or even the next town I can't. I can't even use public transport because they can't get diesel for the buses.

I agree with the principle of the protests but it is affecting my family quite a bit and we are lucky living in a town, most people in this area live in small villages with no shops and with no way of getting to town when the food runs out they have no way of getting more.

What has not been mentioned, nor has the Goverment. Due to the OPEC price hikes over the past 6 months the percentage rate increase on the tax & duty payable on fuel has meant that the Goverment will get a windfall of £4 billion, this will increase by £330 million for every $1 rise in oil barrel prices. Oil has increased from $22 to $34 per barrel since the budget. Mr Brown could cut 8p per litre (36p per gallon) without increasing other taxes. He is also gaining from extra income from the North Sea oil price increases.

All figures are from the Sunday Times.

Simon

I just read a report on http://news.bbc.co.uk/ that some garages are charging higher prices (£1.20 a litre!) so that "... they can add their support to the campaign"

There's a report of one in Derby charging £1.99 PER LITRE!! The ten pound gallon has arrived!!

Yeah Right!! Like lining their pockets and 'supply and demand' have nothing to do with it!?

Got a link for you all. Look at this...

http://www.boycott-the-pumps.com/

Check out the forum... er.. but don't stay too long! Right Admins!?

The police were called to the Derby garage as apparently the owner was about to get lynched. The BBC quoted £11 per gallon, but that might be the BBC's sums, they are only reporters after all. Maybe the garage owners seeing no income for maybe a few months are making the most of it, Gordon Brown has stated no change in tax rates until the budget.

It was also all blamed onto the general public, us that is, for panic buying. It will be interesting to see how many mum's make the school run and how many are queing for a bus in the morning rather that walk or cycle the often short distance to school or work.

Does anyone know if Silverstone, Goodwood etc have seperate fuel supplies ? If not I might have a few Goodwodd tickets available.

Me ? I'll be driving as it is to far to walk, (I'm also lazy!) I don't own a bike and the bus means about a 2 hour journey involving 3 buses.

Simon

i've got a full tankl today, so i'm ok for silverstone. i'm hitching a lift with my olds to work for the rest of this week. the people at work won't last 2 days. there are no buses, and if you think they're getting on their bikes...

will silverstone go ahead? this is my question.....

At Silverstone tonight the people we spoke to were not sure if it would go ahead or not, although the night-light rigging was being put up this afternoon.

Well I'm here in deepest darkest Gloucestershire. There's only one petrol station in the county that's confirmed to be selling Unleaded, but when you hear "Unconfirmed Reports" that another station may have some, it's all getting a bit farcical.

This doesn't mean however, that I don't support the idea. I think it's a very good thing, and I hope it keeps going for another week or more until the Government has no options left but to cut the disgraceful amount of tax we pay on fuel.

For what it's worth, I just filled up my 306 Turbo Diesel at Sainsbury's. They only have diesel left, but you can have as much as you want. My little car is a bit on the economical side, so that tank of fuel could last upto 10 days if I don't drive like Colin McRae. So I'm OK for a while yet

I would like to think that this crusade would only take a week to 10 days, but I suspect Tony Blah is likely to stick to his guns on this one.

"We will not alter government policy on petrol through blockades" - Tony Blair

I can see this going on for about two months with neither side moving an inch. Meanwhile, the army will be called out, individual cars will be targeted and their tanks drained (something which has already started) and tempers will fray.

Late on Monday the Privy Council and the Queen approved the use by the government of emergency powers to ensure the flow of fuel to "priority users" such as health services, schools and public transport. - BBC News online

Better hold on guys, this could get rough. :(

If you miss work, business, money thru truck drivers blocking a road, who can you sue for loss of income?

Also, surely no-one would cut up rough if fuel was sent to medical, fire, etc?

Not a good morning.

Last night, at 10.30, I was actually on a Texaco forecourt when the pumps ran dry.

This morning, I tried eight petrol stations in the Harrow/Wembley/Ruislip area. All were bereft of unleaded fuel. I finally gave up in Ickenham having joined a queue of suitably unleaded looking cars, only to find another dry petrol station.

I then spent 20 minutes sitting behind a moron owner of a BMW Z3 sports car, as he religiously squeezed drops of 4-star down the fuel filler of his unleaded-only six month old car.

That will be a £1700 bill when he finds out his catalytic converter and ECU don't work anymore.

I have two-thirds of a tank of fuel left. Hopefully this will see me to Goodwood and back. If not, I will be the little creature hitching a lift on the A3 to London on Sunday night.

Sorry to hear about your experiences, Tim.

I managed to fill up with Superplus this morning, but only 'cos I came into the garage the back way and used the wrong pump! Oops. Coulda got arrested! http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/images/icons/icon58.gif

I might not make it to Silverstone either. Not just because of my personal fuel situation, but because my work depends on people bringing their cars to me to work on 'em, and they ain't!! I've had three cancellations this week already. :( Sorry, I won't have the funds, guys...



SNH, "Also, surely no-one would cut up rough if fuel was sent to medical, fire, etc?" What I meant by this is that the Armed Forces and the Green Goddesses will soon be on the streets, ensuring juice for emergency vehicles only.

I wouldn't mind betting that WVM's "I'd not be surprised to see the army mobilised." will mean troops at filling station hot spots. That is to say, any stations that have any fuel left will soon need assistance to ensure that Mr and Mrs J. Public only get their fiver's worth.

By the way, Mrs Sparky went shopping this morning and was only permitted to buy two loaves of bread and four pints of milk. Panic buying? Never!

It took me best part of three hours to get to Highbury this morning - a one hour journey normally - and 1.5 hours of that was queuing on the A1 to get past one single fuel station which did have fuel (and a bloody great queue!!)

I must say that almost every single forecourt I drove past today was completely closed, or were without Unleaded and Diesel.

Tommorrow i'll be heading down to Tunbridge Wells - all in around 200 miles round trip - i've got a quarter of a tankj left... if I can't get any on the road, then i'm buggered! :)

Tim, I can assure you that there was petrol available in your area this afternoon - it's Diesel which has run dry right now. Try the garage on the A40 next to the drive thru McDonalds (the Target roundabout ?) Though this information may now be outdated as Sky News are now reporting that London is now totally dry - ALL stocks of fuel are exhausted.

I reckon that all our vehicles will be parked up by Thursday evening - and head office are considering whether we should send every one of the group's vehicles to help the blockades!

With regards to the emergency services - the blockadees (is that a word ? :)) are freely letting deliveries leave the refinieries if they can be demonstrated to be on 'humanitarian' deliveries - ie to ambulance, fire or police stations, schools, etc., etc. It's simply forecourt sales which they are blocking.

I am delighted to say that the public seem to be remaining 100% behind the campaign - keep it up guys - you're doing a brilliant job.

Well, I'm not sure that makes me feel better, but I wouldn't have gone as far as the Target anyway. Altogether that would have been a six or seven mile round trip for me, and I think (pray) that what I've still got will suffice for the weekend. I couldn't risk the precious juice on another potentially futile expedition.

I went to the station to enquire about a weekly season ticket for a commute from Harrow to Slough. I was advised not to purchase one as Thames Trains could not guarantee diesel supplies after Saturday.

On the way back, I passed the Texaco station outside the Harrow Civic Centre.

There was a police cordon around it, and two burly coppers doing the "it's all over, there's nothing to see" routine.

Wonder what happened....

Like you Tim I'm worried about making Goodwood this weekend, from Bristol I can currently make it there, but not back. Also, just been listening to the radio and Tony said "Fuel companies will be making more effort to deliver fuel and the situation wil start returning to normal within the next 24 hours".

I agree with the sentiment WVM, but I can't help feel this is begining to get out of hand.

It's Blair who's letting it get out of hand - did you listen to his speech just now ? The guy's on another planet - he seems unaware of the public feeling.

At the end of the day, if he sends in the troops to drive the wagons, arrests all the protestors, tows away the wagons, etc, what does he think will happen ? Public feeling is that high that he'll find major trunk roads will be blocked, individual petrol stations will be blocked, etc.

He couldn't prevent all of that - he doesn't have the resources...

Here the radio is giving out 1/4 hour bulletins on which stations have fuel, seems as if it's easiest to get Diesel.
Were trying to keep running on a skeletal staff, but estimate we can only do that until Tuesday of next week at the latest, after that it'll just be the people who live in the village and local town who'll be able to get in. Also on local radio this morning one woman had phoned in the say she'd just heard from her husband who'd got to work (in the building trade) to find that as a result of all of this the firm was laying off 50 staff. This has the potential to affect everyone's jobs (hope things buck up for you soon Sparky:)), but let's hope companies try to be as understanding as possible to their staff. Getting to work by public transport might not be possible because the buses are rapidly running out of fuel and the trains reckon 48 hours before they're severely affected - plus of course the first shift of train drivers can't run their trains if they can't get into work!!
As for the panic buying, spoke to one of our volunteers this morning and she'd gone to do her weekly shop only to find it was impossible to move in the supermarket because word was rapidly spreading that there was no bread delivery and people were going mad.
There's also news that one milk company is offering to lend out all 40 of their electric floats if it gets to the stage where they could be useful for the emergency services.
The taxi drivers were doing a rolling blockade of the M56 this evening, I'm glad they were a good number of junctions down from me. As has been commented in work, it wouldn't take much for the blockade to move from Trafford Park Fuel Depot out onto the M60 and if they want to cause maximum chaos, they'll do that tomorrow night when United have got a European match. Although I guess if they do that they could risk turning people against them, while it is frustrating, it's good to see that people are still backing the blockades.
Finally, one quote from our local radio this morning
'if you're stuck in a queue for petrol, imagine you're queueing up to run over Gordon Brown':D

That last line does it for me, Carrie! I might make a sign up and hang it off the back of my truck! :)

Did anyone see Breakfast News this morning, it was showing a trucker's blockade (in Hull I think) and one of the wagons had a banner on the front which read "Official Sponsor to the Dome White Elephant" I liked that one:)

How about the 'Go Truck yourself, Gordon Brown!' one ? :)

There is one garage in Carmarthen who still has diesel but the police are there only letting the emergency services fill up. The local Tesco has already run out of bread, milk and eggs.

I'm livid....my cat is stuck up a tree and the Fire Brigade refuse to come and rescue Tiddles......I've paid my taxes for 23 years and this is what I get....I blame the French...and the Welsh...

Now I really am starting to think enough is enough.

Several pieces of news this evening have set me to thinking.

Watching a convoy of petrol wagons - agreed to on emergency grounds - running the gauntlet of a baying, jeering mob of "peaceful protesters" was interesting.

The announcement by a haulier that if petrol tankers did attempt to supply filling stations, then the truckers would attempt to barricade individual outlets in order to foil the delivery.

The report that regardless of supplies being maintained for hospitals and ambulances, major operations will still be in danger, because no one has agreed make fuel available for the Blood Transfusion Service.

The protesters have made their point. If the government chooses to do nothing at the next budget, then they know that the nation can be brought to a crashing halt at 36 hours notice. I think it would be a sign of good faith for this to be the end of the action. It's just getting bolshy for the sake of it.



And there is one other piece of news which has coloured my opinion very much tonight. And I would very greatly value your prayers over this.

A very very close friend telephoned tonight, to explain that Goodwood was out of the question this weekend, due to an illness in the family.

Not to put too fine a point on it, his sister has been taken ill with minor fits as symptoms. The necessary tests have been carried out, and what was first thought to be a mild onset of epilepsy has turned out to be a tumour on the brain. What was a mild worry has just been reappraised into a terminal condition, and this young woman has very likely only a few days.

She is in a hospital in Wales. Her three children have to be informed, and my friend has to gather the fuel resources to get himself from Cambridge to Wales. Other sister will be trying to make it from Ipswich to Cambridge. The parents have been informed and will be returning from a holiday in Spain. To London.

Not one of those journeys would be described as a critical emergency in these emergency times. But I am sure I have no need to spell out just how vital it is for that family to come together at this time.

The longer this goes on, the more families are going to find themselves in a situation like this. The worry of finding the fuel to get to a hospital hundreds of miles away in time has only added to the turmoil everyone is experiencing.

Can I ask my friends on this forum to do something? Those of you who have a belief, and who have a prayer life, can I please ask you to remember these people. I shall. I love my friend so very much, and I am desperately fond of his family. I know that prayerful support would mean so much to them at this time.

Which is a very long way of saying that to my mind, the point of the protest has been made.

Sorry.

Thanks for listening,

Tim

To All

My neibour has just told me that the service station on the M23 has just received supplies of fuel. I have an almost fulll tank, saved for Goodwood, so I am not that concerned. But maybe useful info for anyone. It is 5 miles southbound from Gatwick.

I dread to think of the tail back in the morning.

SL

So, Tony Blair says that for every penny taken off tax on petrol, money will be lost from hospitals/schools etc. So what are ALL the other taxes for. We pay income tax, National Insurance, Council Tax, VAT and duty on alcohol/tobacco plus the tax on fuel. Through our purchases we pay for the tax levied by the government on North Sea oil (yes, that's before it gets to the petrol stations) and business rates. Now what I would like to know is, where the f... is this money going?!!! Yes, I know these things have to be paid for - police, emergency services, health etc. But it seems to me there is an INCREDIBLE amount of wastage and overspending. Bureaucrats and spongers gravtating toward the money like cancer cells, choking the whole economy up. For instance, in my home city the council are building a "millenium square" and spending £11m to £15m. There's going to be some nice trees, a few cafe's and two temporary ice rinks. So where the hell is £11m-15m going?!! And that's another point, figures are constantly blurred/fudged so that nobody really has any idea of how much is actually being spent. The millenium Dome is obviously another huge example of this ridiculous spending. If a business were working to this sort of standard then an auditor would be brought in to clamp down on overspending. What does Mr Blair do, just keep upping the charge to his 'customers' (the tax payer).
Basically Mr Blair should start to look at slashing the huge waste that goes on, and we should have more information as to where all our money goes.....this goes much deeper than the price of petrol.
One other thing, didn't the Labour Party come to power on the promise of no tax increases, and didn't they constantly attack the previous Government for 'tax by stealth' - which is exactly what they are now doing. Tony Blair also said that if this government couldn't manage the Dome, then they weren't fit to manage the country........Hmmmmmmmm.

A friend of mine runs a garage, ran out of nearly all his fuel yesterday. BUT, he phoned his doctor & let him have some. Phoned my wife to see if we needed any. Says for me to call him if I need any.

angst & others :

Sorry to hear that you are going thru the same sh!t that we went thru in '73 with the first "fuel crisis", but angst hit the nail squarely on the head.

If you insist on having the gvernment pay for everything - just like what the Democrats want over here - then you have no choice but to be levied rediculous amounts in taxes, most of which goes to non-productive paper shufflers.

Maybe it's time for another revolution ? Sounds like the Labour Party may be in deep do-do come the next election.

Good luck !

Trouble is, Enzo, the other lot are even worse!

Seriously, part of the problem is not that there is a high level of wastage in public services - the last decade has seen economy drive after economy drive on that score alone. The problem is that the politicians have figured out that they're never going to get elected back in on a ticket of higher income taxes.

Which means the necessary tax revenue has to be found in other ways - hence the high fuel tariffs. Unfortunately, whereas income tax increase would make everyone pay in rough proportion to what they earn, the fuel tax hits the people of whatever income whether their fuel consumption is a luxury or a necessity.

Incidentally, anyone remember why we have 17.5% VAT? It used to be 15%, but the extra 2.5% was a temporary measure to make up the revenue lost when the Conservatives backed down from the "Poll Tax".

So, just how long is "temporary"?

But as regards this week's protests - enough is enough I think. Last night, a filling station in Essex got a tankerful of diesel, and was then inundated with lorries which all filled up, emptied the filling station again, and then went off on a mass 5mph go-slow protest to central London.

Lovely!

And now there are reports from the East Midlands that bank ATM cash machines are starting to run out of money, and the security vans haven't the fuel to make more deliveries....

BTW, just to remove one thing from the equation - the woeful Millennium Dome may be a total waste of money, but at least it isn't a waste of Tax revenues. All of this extra cash being poured into keeping the place open is coming from state lottery receipts, which are ring fenced away from normal government spending.

It's ridiculous the amount of money that is wasted. All these taxes and yet hospitals / road / public services are a mess and is it any wonder people get annoyed when you read of so many thousands having been spent on doing up some government minister's office etc.
As for the situation here, there seemed a lot of confusion this morning about whether the Stanlow Blockade had been called off or not, haven't heard any more on that through the day. What is becoming clear is that the tanker drivers who are supporting the protest and refusing to make deliveries are being threatened with arrest and the sack.
I mentioned yesterday the time to cause maximum chaos on the M60 Manchester Ring Road would be tonight for Man United's European Match and that is just what is planned, a blockade of the M62, M60 and Trafford Park area. I've just left work early and I'm happy to say that I've managed to avoid getting caught up in that.
I've also driven past 4 tankers on the M60 and the garage near work had a delivery this afternoon, we heard about that at 2:45, by 3:45 it was empty and shut again.
Also, at lunchtime, the local post office near to our work had just received a phonecall to say that postal deliveries can no longer be guaranteed.
What's the situation on the roads Mr White Van Man? Did you make it to Tunbridge Wells? I guess if you were there then you couldn't have been the WVM I was chatting to this morning in Bolton - he was cute:)

Quiet Carrie, very quiet!! Which is excellent - can we have one of these protests each week ? :)

I'm pleased to report that I did make it to Tunbridge Wells - and I even made it back again - thanks to one of my customers who knew the people running the local garage. A few pound notes later, and I had half a tank full - enough to get me home this evening, but there is basically no Diesel at all in the whole of the south of England now. Resorted to returning to work and draining the dregs out of the fork lift... which doesn't really matter as we no longer have any stock left in the yard...!

Tim, of course it has gone too far - but Blair knows exactly what he needs to do to get thimgs moving again. It looks like the petrol companies are now getting the blame from the goverment for the crisis - is this guy mental - does he not realise that his bosses - you and me - are making their feelings clear. If I were to ignore what my boss wanted, i'd by for the high jump - hmmm... when was that election again ?

BTW, I saw a grand total of THREE tankers all day today - one was a Shell petrol tanker, one was a heating oil company, and the other was a Q8 wagon. On a normal day i'd lose count how many I saw. Hardly looks like good old Tony's getting a grip, does it ? :)

I also heard the rumour on the radio again that Eddie Stobart is on the brink of running dry and is intending to send all 800 of his wagons to join the protest... Now that's support which Blair can't ignore, surely ?

This is what I beleive should happen now.

The protestors, as a group, should make it clear that they are satisfied that the country is on its knees, and the point has been made. A spokesman should announce that action will cease immediately the moment that Blair agrees to review fuel taxation, but will resume in two weeks time if no government action has been forthcoming.

The protestors are in danger of losing the support of the ordinary man. The public are already miffed at the cost of fuel. They don't need to feel animosity towards the only light at the end of the tunnel. The idea was not to inconvenience the populace, but get a point accross to Blair. This might have been acheived, but must be stopped short of threatening lives indirectly (hospitals, fire services, food, etc)

As I said, it has been shown that action can and will be taken. Blockades should drop, the government should resolve to review taxation, and if they don't, action should be threatened every fortnight until a review takes place.

What do you think?

Altho I agree with the fact that all fuel tax is too high, I can't help thinking that bringing the country to it's knees is wrong. Jobs could be lost, people suffer, doesn't seem the right way to go.

The talk about nurses getting fuel isn't true in all cases either. My wife works as a practice nurse, therefore not employed by the Health Authority & can't get the special fuel. If the pracice closes, the people go to hospitals, causing more strain on staff & resources there.

So you mean to say that going to the local fancy dress shop to hire a nurse's uniform before setting out in search of a petrol station with fuel isn't going to help then;)

Jobs could be lost, people suffer, doesn't seem the right way to go.


What ? Like they are in the tranport industry due to the ridiculously small margins which we are forced to work on because of the price of fuel and road fund ?

Although i'd love to see us bring the country to it's knees until Lionel Blair starts listening, I fear that he's far too stubborn to back down on this - maybe you're right Sparky. Let's face it, we have the support of the GBP on this matter - i'm sure that they'd be prepared to demonstrate this fact if the goverment refused to reconsider in the two week gap you suggest.

Originally posted by Carrie
So you mean to say that going to the local fancy dress shop to hire a nurse's uniform before setting out in search of a petrol station with fuel isn't going to help then;)

I'm sure the sight of you in a nurses uniform would persuade them to let you have fuel, Carrie... :p Maybe you can post a photo of you wearing it here so that we can all see what you look like in it :)

I'm sure the sight of you in a nurses uniform would persuade them to let you have fuel, Carrie... :p Maybe you can post a photo of you wearing it here so that we can all see what you look like in it :)

Sorry, as you're not my White Van Man from this morning http://ten-tenths.accelerator.org/forum/images/icons/icon36.gif (ooh, came over all funny then just thinking about him), I don't think I can oblige;)

That's not very nice of you :(

Carrie
I have some petrol in my garage, you bring the nurses uniform & ............

WVM
I think the protest is a good idea. But, jobs being lost in the haulage industry doesnt mean its right that other people lose their jobs, money, etc.
I work in the IT industry, freelancing, at the moment I'm in Holland working away from my family. There are no jobs for my skills in the UK at the moment. Now I hear that the Gov is going to relax immigration rules to allow foreign workers in who have the current popular skills. Wouldn't it be better to train people with computer knowledge in IT? Also, many freelancers have gone abroad because of IR35, shouldnt the Gov change those laws as well?
Maybe IT staff should stop the computers working for a few weeks........

I can only speak for the industry in which i'm involed but, to me at least, transport and IT don't seem the same thing at all. If there are so many unfilled vacancies for IT peeps, why can't some of these people who have choosen to work overseas go for them - getting tetrained if necessary?

What the goverment is doing to the transport industry with these ludicrous taxes is killing it. People are going out of business day in, day out - through absolutely no fault of their own. And these guys invariably don't have the means to get retrained for alternative careers. We are forced to work ridiculous hours - often breaking tacho laws - just to make ends meet, then we're made the scapegoat when someone falls asleep at the wheel, or a corner is cut and a wagon goes out without it's scheduled service.

The transport industry have been trying to demonstrate the problems to this goverment since they came to power without any success at all. If they refuse to listen to reasoned debate, they leave people with no choice at all but to take more determined action to demonstrate their displeasure at these policies.

SNH, I'm afraid that's exactly what Tony Blah was talking about when he said any concession would pave the way for any group with a grievance to show unrest and withhold services 'til they get what they want. This is the real reason LG won't budge on this. :(

I don't blame you for suggesting it, even in jest, but that's exactly what people would do. I'm very torn on this subject. I fully appreciate that the govt. can't be seen to buckle to every protestors cause, but I'm also aware that it could be the only way to get it done. :(


WVM, I wrote my previous post just before Our Tone gave this evenings address to the nation.

It seems he's adamant the LG won't move an inch. As I said way up there at the top of the original thread, it's going to be a long struggle, and it's gonna turn nasty.

I suggested two week intervals, because everyone keeps on about three weeks to return to normal. A bit of strife at two weeks would be seen to defeat all the work that had gone in to restabilizing the market thus far. But as you suggest, WVM, it would have to be a TOTAL effort by every citizen that 'offers' support.

Can this be relied upon if the GBP gets pi**ed off 'cos they can't buy bread?

OK, change of tack here - what would YOU suggest as a better method of achieving the goal of bringing this very real problem to the attention of Blair and the general public ? We might not get them backing down at this time, but they'll find it very hard to ignore the feelings demonstrated come the next budget and ensuing election...

I'm afraid they've lost me.

I've worked on the road, I've every courtesy for the truckers I meet on the highway. I'd love to see fuel prices come down. I've paid more in fuel duty in the last year than I have had to do in income tax...

But they've lost me.

The rabble at Grangemouth "balloting" their supporters, and proclaiming it a triumph of democracy was a moment of vainglorious pomp the like of which I have never seen Tony Blair commit.

This evening, Mr Blair acknowledged that there were hauliers and farmers experiencing real suffering - the spokesman for the Grangemouth pickets refused to accept that the medical supply shortage in the NHS was anything to do with their action.

You don't have to be a politician to be an idiot.

I'm youngish, I'm able bodied. I live in the town. The worst that can happen to me is that I have to walk a bit to get my daily chores done. I can manage a long time, if necessary, before the blockade starts to bite. Apart from a wonderful motor racing meeting this weekend, I have no other use for the petrol I have left.

But not everyone is in my fortunate position. And for their sakes, I say that enough is enough. My neighbour is housebound and frail. We are making the preparations to step in because the home help can't make it anymore. The meals on wheels is still okay, but for how long?

The government, like it or not, cannot give in to this. If not, how long before every other special interest group, from the Anarchist Party to the Salvation Army start to regard this depth of mischief-making as legitimate.

It's got to stop - before the vulnerable people in society start to be irrevocably damaged.

You don't have to be a politician to be an idiot.


Sure helps though...

Sorry, WVM - you posted while I was writing.

The protest - as it stood, was fine. It demonstrated depth of feeling, and just how much damage COULD be done.

It is the length of time which is wrong.

Sparky is right - the best way forward is a gracious return to normality - with the threat of more disruption if nothing is done.

From the LG latest plea for the drivers to clear the blockdes, I seem to get the idea that they are trying hard to spin out of this by making the drivers be the bad guys.

But if you look at the so called blockades all they consist of is a couple of trucks and 6 or 7 people. Hardly worth calling the army out for.

There is also a lot of support for the reduction of taxes, mainly to be in line with the rest of Europe, a saying that both parties wheel out when the boot is on the other foot. I don't see mobs of people fighting police like the poll tax demo's (Which then got changed). I can see the point about opening the door to anybody to who has an issue, but this one is about a very wide group, farmers, truckkers, taxi's etc all of whom use fuel and pay other taxes such a road tax on their personal transport and their work transport.

The fuel tax should be a fixed sum not a percentage that way we all know what we are paying. The latest from Sussex is no fuel at all in Brighton, some in Crawley and Horsham but it sells out very fast. The newest problem is the panic buyers stocking up on bread, milk and long life foods such as pasta, Tesco's this morning had almost ran out of bread and milk by midday.

On a lighter note ;)

What's the differance between paraffin and petrol ???


Paraffin has 2 ef's but there's no ef in petrol. :) :) ;)

SL

Just spotted on the EuroRealist website...

How to achieve a petrol at £1.00 per Gallon - from tomorrow...

When Britain leaves the European Union the price of petrol could IMMEDIATELY drop to under 1 Pound a Gallon from the present price of 4 Pounds a Gallon or more.

Britain currently pays 1,800,000 Pounds an hour to be a member of the EU.

When Britain leaves the EU it will take some 10 minutes to pass a 3 line Bill through The House of Commons negating Britain's involvement in any and all treaties of the EU. There would be an IMMEDIATE gain of 1,800,000 Pounds an hour.

This money could be refunded to the tax payers by removing the fuel taxes, petrol would fall from 4 Pounds a Gallon to 1 Pound a Gallon IMMEDIATELY.
This would instantly reflect in a reduction of food prices and the price of ALL goods which require fuel for delivery.

THE FALL IN PRICES would IMMEDIATELY secure the jobs of many salespeople, van, car and truck drivers, whose companies are currently struggling to pay fuel costs.

The cost of heating would IMMEDIATELY fall for pensioners and low earners and the boom in the economy would IMMEDIATELY be felt by every citizen.

The beleaguered FARMERS would directly benefit, saving many of them from bankruptcy or suicide [current rate of suicide over 90 per annum].

The HEALTH SERVICE would benefit IMMEDIATELY, making massive savings on fuel that could be spent on essential operations and life saving.

EDUCATION would benefit IMMEDIATELY and the savings made on fuel could be spent on EDUCATION.

The FISHERMEN who use a great deal of fuel would benefit IMMEDIATELY and the saving would help tide them over, until the British Fisheries have recovered from being raped by EU fish policies.

There is no sector of the economy and no household in Britain which would not benefit IMMEDIATELY from the saving of 1,800,000 Pounds per hour when we leave the EU.

America's economy is booming with 5 percent annual growth and fuel costs in America are a fraction of those in Britain.

The best way to achieve IMMEDIATE reduction in fuel costs is leave the EU and save 16 Billion Pounds a Year [quote IoD figure] - this can be taken off of the tax on fuel and the benefits would be felt in EVERY home in Britain IMMEDIATELY.


"Britain currently pays 1,800,000 Pounds an hour to be a member of the EU." - Is this true?? http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

Trollop ;)

I know she is, but is it true? ;)

I just popped down to my local 24hr filling station for some fizzies, and had a chat with the forecourt sales assistant who I know quite well. They still only have Emergency Service fuel supplies, and they are not on the list of preferred sites for delivery.

But, my friend and her fellow workers are planning to boycott the next tanker that arrives.

I smiled and said "Oh!" I didn't know what to say...

I tried to explain about my idea for a withdrawal of action, with the fortnightly threat and resumption, and I was accused of weakness! Didn't I realise what was necessary to 'win' this fight? I really don't know what to make of this. I live in a small market town. They certainly won't enamour themselves to the locals with this action, but they are sure this is the only way that the protest will continue, now that the refinery protests are failing.

I suggested they wouldn't be very popular, but they said all the regular customers that they had spoken to thought it was the way to go.
Ironically, I think all those that say they fully support the protest, will be among the first to complain when they are met with resistance at the pumps. This could be another stage of action, but I'm sure it will become every man for himself.

Have you spoken to anyone who is prepared to extend the protest beyond the refineries?

Would you be prepared to abandon your car for a few weeks in order to 'demonstrate' your unhappiness? Or will you see the panic and melee and dive in?

Sparky said
"NH, I'm afraid that's exactly what Tony Blah was talking about when he said any concession would pave the way for any group with a grievance to show unrest and withhold services 'til they get what they want. This is the real reason LG won't budge on this.
I don't blame you for suggesting it, even in jest, but that's exactly what people would do. I'm very torn on this subject. I fully appreciate that the govt. can't be seen to buckle to every protestors cause, but I'm also aware that it could be the only way to get it done. "

Why in jest???

I don't believe that further stoppages are the right way to go. Discussion would be better, they've proed they can stop the country. But the discussion must be fair BOTH ways, not each party saying this must be done & no compromise.

Sparky, do you have the website address where you got that info? As to your question, nobody can say. And that's one of the points that I raised earlier - all figures are blurred/fudged/brushed under the carpet. I do know that we pay a great deal of money to be in the EU, and it seems to me that it is the biggest protection racket I have ever seen/heard of in my life. Basically the argument goes that if we're not in the EU then we won't be able to compete on a level playing field as the rest of Europe!!!?? Isn't that a threat? Basically - pay the money or we'll get you.
Maybe I've got it wrong, but that's the other side to this - we never get any sort of reasoned debate on the subject. Which makes me wonder what there is to hide.
But I agree with the general feeling that the protaests should be called off for now.
Now, around election time might be a good time for another set of protests.......

SNH, sorry. I assumed by the way you added it to the end of your post, it was a 'funny'. But you also said that it is not the way to go, so I don't know...

Angst, the url is;

http://www.silentmajority.co.uk/eurorealist/petrol.html

Well. It would appear the protestors are listening to me! ;)

They have announced (at some locations) that the blockade would be lifted, but that they expect a review/reduction within 60 days.

Others are hanging on, or have strengthened their resolve after seeing prices rise again.

"Why should we stop the protest, when the prices are higher than when we got here?" said one protestor to BBC TV news.

As I type Blair is on the box saying it's over...

We'll see!

Sparky
I was taking the protest to a maybe logical conclusion, if something's wrong, (in your belief), protest, stop the country get it changed to how you want it to be, (I am not implying that the aims of the protest in discussion are right or wrong in this statement).

As for it being the end, (Blair), hopefully he meant the end of his false, uncaring government

...and to think that people in Canada and the US call their gas prices an 'outrage'.

At the moment there are about 100 protesters (who were at the Texaco and Elf/Murco refineries) in the Showground near where I live having a meeting to decide whether to go back to the refineries to restart the protests and are in contact with the other protesters across the country.

What do you currently pay, Jay? US$1.70 per gallon?

That's about 35c a litre.

We pay 86 pence a litre at the moment, and with a dollar fifty to the pound, I reckon we pay about $6.00 a gallon...

Now THAT'S an outrage!!!

This whole thing is out of hand, and what idiot decided that the nation is behind them? Every person I have asked has said that this whole protest is ridiculous.

Instead of topping up with fuel un-necessarily as all these idiots seem to be, why not all jump on public transport, and prove to the government just how **** it is?

As for this rush to the supermarkets... I stayed at Sainsbury's until 2am last night stacking the shelves. It looked as if a bomb had been dropped. We were totally out of milk and bread, and apparently in the first hour of Wednesday's trading our store took £50,000. It usually takes £42,000 over the whole day on a Wednesday.

The protest isn't getting us anywhere, and it's gone on too long.

You've obviously not been talking to the same people I have Minardi Fan. I've only spoken to one person who doesn't back the protests, and he doesn't drive anyway. Everyone I work with is agreed, this was the right time to call off the protests. What started off as quite a disorganised group at Stanlow has proved how quickly they can bring this country to a standstill. Right now the people I see every day (and I've chatted to a few of our visitors as well) agree that it's now up to the government to act. They've been given their 60 days before the protests start again and I think people here are prepared for the blockades to re-start at that time and will support them because something needs to be done about fuel prices. I just got my monthly bank statement, of the 18 outgoing payments, 13 were on fuel and I've just worked out that's £233 on fuel in a month!!!!!!!
Public transport, what a joke, I work in a semi-rural area, near impossible and far too expensive to be a viable option for me. I'd spend £240 in a month just getting to and from work on public transport. My fuel costs might be high, but at least that covers a lot more than just commuting for work.

I haven't met one person that is against the protests either. Alot of us are still worried about when we can get petrol but we will just live with it until it is over. Times were harder in World War II (as my Grandma reminds me). Have you seen the polls that have been running on radio stations and such like? I have heard an average of 90 odd percent are for the protests. The pricing of petrol has got ridiculous and the fact that we have people in this country who will shout out and say "enough is enough" is very admirable.

MinardiFan, I understand your unhappiness at the protests.

But, and I mean absolutely no disrespect old chum, but how much do you spend on petrol each week? ;)

Yes yes, I knew that was coming!!!

Of course I can see that prices for petrol are disgustingly high in this country, but it has now gone on too long. It's just a shame that old *******face Mr. Blair insists on remaining as arrogant as ever.

I agree with the principles behind the protest. However. The protesters may have let themselves down had they behaved badly. That hasn't happened fortunately so I trust "Bleurgh" will now treat them with the respect they deserve and negotiate honestly and properly.

Remember, no drivers were actually stopped from delivering fuel. They stayed put because of they're agreement with the principle. I believe stories of intimidation were "spin" and no doubt we will find this out later.

Sadly though, Bleurgh's spent so much time telling us that its the schools and hospitals that have suffered due to the protests, rather than admitting that these services suffer due to the high cost of fuel which has to be paid for out of a limited budget (books? food? operations?). Now he appears on tv and suggests that the government "won"?

The man is no more than a complete ass.

One more thought.

We pay less income tax in the UK than any other EU country. However food and clothing prices in those countries are substantially less than in the UK. Why? I can only assume that it is because fuel costs are lower.

Even so, the Belgians, Dutch, Germans and French have/are protesting.;)

Hopefully the protests signal the end of Blair and his dumb pals. I followed the story at home, I thought I`d heard drivel from various politicos but Blair and Prescott came out with so much Sh1t the should be declared a major pollution hazard! Brits pay more fuel tax than any one else in the world yet they insisted on blaming the cost on OPEC.
Brits pay more tax on fags and booze than in Europe they pay more for the cars they drive, so the goverment collects more duty and tax on them aswell. So now we know why the Brits are so well off compared to europe, NOT!
Just move to France and join me, I can see no advantage in the UK system. And in France people stand up for themselves.