FF1600 Conversions

Hi all
As I am converting a Van Diemen to kent spec - and there was a long thread last time this topic was brought up - any interest in me putting a post up from time to time on the ease, expense etc of doing this conversion??

If not, no worries.

JNWRF01, yes I for one would be interested in your progress,
did you buy the car with the intention of converting it, or have you already racined it in Zetec spec, also a cost brake down would be interesting too?

ok - i have raced the car in sffc zetec...
i will give a full brake down of costs etc etc and also ease of finding parts and expertise in converting..

Why have you decided to convert it, I was looking at Zetecs a few years ago 750MC.

Barny - this is just my opinion - but i don;t really find them too enjoyable to drive! Also, they eat tyres (but against that the engines are very equal and reliable).

But the biggest downside is that there isn;t much choice in racing...in FF1600 there are 4 champs near enough for me plus the king of kents races etc etc.

I race around work commitments (and family!) so when you only have one meeting a month you end up missing big chunks of the season if you can't make the monthly outing.

So the simple answer is to why i am changing - more choice on racing, lower tyre bills and most importantly something more fun to drive ...

JNW, do you already own an FF1600 engine, if not that's about £1500 to start with. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the zetec and buy a good kent (RF90-92, reynard or swift)or are you keen to see how easy/hard the conversion is? As a minimum, I guess you'll need engine + ancillaries, exhaust, wheels + tyres, brakes, some bodywork, springs, etc. Can the g'box be used, what mods are needed ?

There are some who want to ban these cars from the regional champs - are you sure your efforts won't be wasted ???

It seems a little silly to ban them as there are already several out there racing..

why don't i buy a older car - mainly because they are older and not as good value - and prob more important for me - they are not as safe..

JNWR - sounds interesting at what stage are you in the conversaion? I think you miss the power of a Zetec!

Think they'll all be pushed towards one series by way of a class year distiction, like post-98...

I've not heard too many complaints about the safety of 90-95 FF's, apart from the silly small roll hoop on the RF90 (why did the MSA allow that?). I agree the converted zetec's may be better still, since the wider track means that the wheels are further from the driver. Is there a maximum width limit for ff1600's, or does it just depend on how much room those in front leave !

180cm

.... and how far off that are the RF00's JR ???

Nothing my friend, they are right out there in Zetec spec, Maybe Kent an inch or so due to the narrower wheels. Mind you, if I recall, Swifts of 92 to 95 vintage could be upto 175cm so not a lot of difference really...

Out of interest....how much support is out there for a national king of kents series??

Plenty who talk it up, but would they enter, as there are quite a few who like to tell you how quick they are but then won't stray from their normal hunting ground for fear of being shown up...

Yes, all 3 'KOK' races this year are/will be well supported (but not many FF races at Silvers GP or Thruxton). But make it 15-20 rounds at some of the smaller circuits, and interest and numbers will soon drop off.

I agree they need to make sure SOM and NW rounds don't clash. If they are expanding KOK, they need to keep number of rounds sensible and avoid clashes with Combe and NW races.

Originally posted by spearce
JNW, do you already own an FF1600 engine, if not that's about £1500 to start with. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell the zetec and buy a good kent (RF90-92, reynard or swift)or are you keen to see how easy/hard the conversion is? As a minimum, I guess you'll need engine + ancillaries, exhaust, wheels + tyres, brakes, some bodywork, springs, etc. Can the g'box be used, what mods are needed ?

There are some who want to ban these cars from the regional champs - are you sure your efforts won't be wasted ???

I think he is advertising the car, for £12,500 - although VD will currently sell you an unraced and fully kitted RF03 for £16,000...

OK - here are the costs etc so far.

Buying a car - you need (ideally) a RF00 (so you don;t have to change the uprights)...there are cars out there for around £5500 or a RF01 for £7000. Usually these will have some bits you can sell (dampers, wheels etc) - which should put a few thousand back into the kitty. So in effect your donor RF00 chassis will stand you at lets say £4000.

Conversion - so far I have bought the following from V-D exhaust (£450), sump (£450) engine mounts (£100), rear engine pannel (£400 with airbox etc), loom (£125), clutch piston (£50) water system (£300), throttle bits (£100) - basically £2000 so far.

Ontop of this I need two sets of wheels £350, exhaust bracket (£50) top engine mount (£50).

So lets assume by the time you have had all the parts you would have spent £3000. So your roller now stands around £7000 so far.

I am not going to include the engine side - but there is a need to change the gearbox final drive to kent from zetec (about £600).

I am converting a RF01 - managed to swap my uprights/calipers over and bought some second hand bilstein to start with.

I think by the time i would have finished i would have spent about £3000 on bits + lets say my chassis is worth £7500 + engine - so the roller owes me £10,000. Now I now this is not going to be the cheapest way into FF - but you are getting a modern car - in my case very low miles - which would serve you well for years. In the context of a Radical/Caterham etc etc it is still a good value club racers car...

Anyone looking to convert one - beware of the time lag to getting your bits from VD (approx 3-4 weeks) - so best to do over the winter.

FYI I had my car advertise in Autosport/Internet to see if there was any demand for Zetec cars - I had not one call about buying it as a zetec -but about 10 calls from people wanting to convert it. I think thats answers what is going to happen to regional zetec - hence why i am going kents.....

JNW. Thanks for this good info - but think about keeping the Zetec final drive as it will allow more flexibility with ratio choice and you will also be able to use more of the Zetec sets...

...but i am told its very slow off the line..swings and roundabouts i guess...also is it going to make the laptime anyquicker - prob not and its another £600 to waste!!

no - you'll save £1600 if you keep it!

Talkimg about the speed off the line, I think that is the achilles heal of a newer car, both Ed Moore and Gavin Wills are consistantley slow off the line, and out of slow corners. Is this final drive related?

In a simple answer ...yes!! I hear that Gavin lost 4 places at the start at Rockingham....

interesting. I dunno the answer Justin but want to find out!

If Gavin lost 4 places off the line at Rockingham, he would have been last into the first corner.......

Yes, he it may have been a small grid, but it only takes two to make a race.......doesn't it Justin?

With regards to safety, the trustee old FF89 saved my bacon at Mallory two years ago. A well maintained car will always be safer than any not well maintained model.

The new cars are going to increase in popularity, after all motor racing is like many hobbies, partly fashion. They appear to have better turning in capabilities on fast corners (Gerards, Copse etc). With regard to the starts I think this is driver more than car.

Anyway, most of the converts match the Formula Ford regs exactly and therefore are welcome to join any race unless races are oversubscribed with lots of cars! then it is first come first served.

National Series? spoken by many, raced by how many? It would detract from regional race budgets. the KoK is ideal in it's form as a bench mark to measure against competitors particularly at tracks where the regions don't visit.

DALY - you gonna do FF1600 or ASCAR next year?

unable to make a comment at the moment.....both would be nice!

mm quite a decision there to make.... Though $$££$$ would make the difference i would assume...

OK, spoke to a few experts and the opinion is that the different final drive will make no difference at all although you obvioulsy run different ratios to suit.
Also spoke to someone running such a converted car and his answer started with 'boll' and ended in 'ocks!'

JNWRF01FF1600(K) have you been out in the new car yet, what races will you enter?

PS JNWetc.etc. Why are you selling the sidepods as you need these for post-95 FF1600 regs (unless you are running in Oz).

Peter,
hello, any plans to do the festival in the Reynard this year? would be good to see you again.

Matt

Hi Peter, good to see you on the forum, you never seem to be too far away! (1/10th in the first race!)

With regards to getting off the line I think it is more of a driver thing, Ed Mooore was OK @ at start on Sunday, but only OK, I think it is because of the weight dis. - the engine is much further forward than on a Kent.

Peter why don't you take the body work off and convert an Ascar to FF spec, kill two birds with one stone!

Who here is doing the festival this year?

Yep i'll be in the festival, hopefully i can find a new car before then too.

I am in for the Festival.

Richard, whats wrong with your car?

Nothing wrong with it, the clutch seals went last race, but apart from that its ok :)

oh i see why you asked now (my previos post above) no im looking for a swift 92ish or rf90ish and potentially have a buyer for mine, ideally like to get one soon as i have the money. would like to use it in the festival as a test/race.

Does anyone know anything about Mygale Kent conversions?

There are a few racing in OZ

Mygale factory refuse to comment!

JJ

Originally posted by JustinDawkins
Talkimg about the speed off the line, I think that is the achilles heal of a newer car, both Ed Moore and Gavin Wills are consistantley slow off the line, and out of slow corners. Is this final drive related?

The first start I did most of the grid swarmed past but after a few changes it is sorted. :cool:

Likewise (Sunday excepted) Wills seems to get away just fine now.

Thats good to know how is Edd getting on with his starts?

Moderately from memory. Check out the website!

Originally posted by spearce
JNW, do you already own an FF1600 engine, if not that's about £1500 to start with.


where did you pluck that figure from, button moon??????

Thats all I paid for one how much are they in La La land?

depends if your meaning new or second hand really

wheres la la land?

i thought that was liverpool.... "ey up laaaaaa" :p

Sorry but ey up is flat cap and blackpud land you know who you are....

Yer dats a secon and one kidder Laa.

"its 'reet like"