The future of club-level single-seaters

I am worried. With the rumoured official demise of Formula Ford I am really worried where the future cars for club-level single-seaters are going to come from.

You can't really run carbon FRs yourself, F3s ditto, FBMWs doubtless ditto again.

The lifeblood, even today, of the massive strength of FF1600 has been obsolete pro-level equipment.

The future can't surely look bike-engined midget cars and historics - if so I'll play more golf and take up power kiting or something...

I guess they call it progress, mind you I have fond memories of my old Van Diemen RF89 that I started racing in many moons ago, it was fun with inboard rear shocks and I learned a lot from that car. With nearly all the new formula using carbon chassis now it is impossible to stop things moving on, maybe we need some cheap carbon shops to open ??????. But I guess it horses for courses, I suppose there was a day when the RF89 was high tech stuff !!!!;)

If it's purley the racing you want and you really arent on a perceived career path to F1 there is absolutely nothing wrong with Historic Formula Ford...I certainly don't think it's a particularly easy category to win in

It sure is a depressing thought, I really don't have any words of optimism on the subject at all.

Originally posted by PaulSands
If it's purley the racing you want and you really arent on a perceived career path to F1 there is absolutely nothing wrong with Historic Formula Ford...I certainly don't think it's a particularly easy category to win in

True Paul but not everyone wants to be in historics and the cars have too little metal in them for my taste.

Originally posted by JR Ewing
and take up power kiting or something...

Gavin Wills is into Kites, give him a call.

thats true by the way, so don't look for a hidden meaning!

Is he? He's probably got a new Hawk Jet trainer (aka Zetec) that he's converting to a hand-glider (aka Kent).

There's a Kite FF new this year as well aka The Glebe, aka the lesser-spotted very slow, no drivers who can drive would touch it Kite

Gavins actually got a eurofighter, hes had some trouble getting ropes large enough!

Originally posted by JR Ewing
There's a Kite FF new this year as well aka The Glebe, aka the lesser-spotted very slow, no drivers who can drive would touch it Kite
Ist that the very rare glebe, that became distinct as a result of Scott Mansell not being able to complete a single lap @ Donnington without rolling it Kite?

Originally posted by JustinDawkins
Gavins actually got a eurofighter, hes had some trouble getting ropes large enough!

Johnathan Lewis has just a brought a stelth bomber to convert so they can play together.

You tell he's not relaetd to Nigel watching him 'drive' but I didn't know he'd rolled it. 'Distinct?'

Originally posted by JR Ewing
You tell he's not relaetd to Nigel watching him 'drive' but I didn't know he'd rolled it. 'Distinct?'

I seem to have lost the ability to write...

Me no abkle talk propper neeva, I mean extinct! I guessed at rolling it! I think It was just badley damaged.

Surely FF1600 divided up into several classes will keep the s/s clubman formula alive and kicking. There will be a glut of new zetec conversion this winter - and I am sure new cars will attract more drivers into the formula. Can only be good for the formula

Yes JNW, my concern is not so much short-term, more 5 to 10 years. I wouldn't want to think of FF1600 as in any way a historic formula as, for me, that would be the end. I want it to be current. Regional, OK. Low-budget OK. But CURRENT.

PS I'll laugh when all the Zetec conversions have their arses kicked by well-prepped FF89s etc.

Originally posted by JR Ewing
take up power kiting or something...

Read this with bleary eyes after a long drive, thought it said power knitting :bag: thought I was missing out on something :banghead:

yeah might do that first as it could be cheaper, dryer and less travelling would be involved.

I thought it said power knitting too :eek:

Can we confirm, has FFord been canned or has it just not yet been announced as part of the F3 package?

THE REAL WORRY IS WITH RENAULT BMW ZIP AND F3 BEING A DALLARA BENEFIT ITS ALL SINGLE CHASSIED FORMULA AND EXPENSIVE ONES AT THAT.FF WITH OUT FORDS SUPPORT SURELY WILL SUFFER WE NEED A MULTI CHASSIED FORMULA SLICKS AND WINGS AT THE RIGHT COST ZIP COSTS OR IDEALLY LESS FORGET THE FLASH MOTOR HOMES GET A QUICK CAR BEHIND YOUR WHITE TRANNIE [ BEFORE SOEM ONE WITTY SAYS IT I DONT MEAN TRANSVESTITE]AND GO RACING WE CANT ALL ASPIRE TO BE PROFESIONAL DRIVERS SO WHY WASTE HUGE BUDGETS CHASING THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAMS COME ON GUYS GET REAL AND LETS GO RACING
AND YS I AM PLUGGING FOR MYSELF AND WE WILL HAVE EUROPEAN RACES TOO
RED DRAGON AUTOMOTIVE
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The real problem lies with the increase of one make formulas. I got to thinking about this at the weekend when the old question of BARC Renault having the Twin Cam cars surfaced and was stamped on for the umpteenth time this year.
When a one make formula is current then spares are plentiful, but expensive as they have to be brought new through a single source. When the car is no longer part of a current formula the new spares supply ends abruptly and subsequent club owners have to rely on second hand and black market spares.
Neither arrangement is good, but the latter does allow the more hard up to go racing, while the former restricts grids enormously.
We desperately need FF to carry on in it's present guise, if it doesn't, then club single seater racing cannot continue in any of the forms we presently have, and maybe won't be able to continue at all.
The only one make single seater series to survive the transition into the club scene is Formula Honda, and I'm sure they would be the first to admit that it hasn't been smooth. The rest, Vauxhall Lotus, Ford whatever it was, FFirst, all gone.
What are we left with that is multi marque?
URS FF2000, Various F Fords, BARC Renault Mono is mainly a collection of different one make formula cars, but it is strong.
I don't know how the mono men get spares for Vauxhall Lotus's, but the rest all have spares suppliers of varying efficiency, and that is probably why they are still there.
Probably the future will be in Mono type formulas with small businesses popping up to manufacture and supply parts for various one make formula cars which have been relegated from their original formula.

Surely the way forward for non-FF1600 single seater racing clubmen is to invent a package that involves converting all the hundreds of all Zetec engined FF cars into something slightly more powerful (say 175bhp) with wings ala the Lewis red Mono car...his is a 1997 FF2000 car. There are loads of these cars around - the engines are bullet proof - run them on FF slicks and just give it a power hike and more grip (making them easier to drive)...how many monocars has Lewis now sold to his spec 6-7 ??? You could create a modern FF2000 class (FF1800) by getting some standard wings, open up the restrictors (I am sure someone can modifty the engine management for more power)...and off you go..!!!

All come along to mono. You can run anything (allmost) in that. I run a carbon F3 in that. I'll be out at Mallory on Sunday if anyone would like a chat. Car no6 in mono 2000.

The FF2000 and 1800's with wing can also run in 750mc's Formula 4 championship. There is also one based on a mygale FF

Do you have to run your F3 with 40mm ride height?

Yes we do. But it doesn’t seem to be any problem. Just modify your set up to suit. As for lap time they are pretty much the same as ARP for the age of car. I.e class B.

Originally posted by Lola
Yes we do. But it doesn’t seem to be any problem. Just modify your set up to suit. As for lap time they are pretty much the same as ARP for the age of car. I.e class B.

.........even quicker when Lee isn't driving it! :p

FF1600 is the way to go, it will always be popular, regardless of the chassis type and age.It is also probably the most level of all playing fields!
Monoposto is great, but when you have nearly new 1997 cars run with several sets of tyres etc etc then who can beat that on the track?

Roll on the walter hayes trophy weekend....if you are at Mallory the weekend before you may get a chance of a reduced entry fee.. watch this space..

Thanks Justin!!!

Your right mono is getting silly with the amount of new rubber been thrown about.
Maybe it would be good to declair maybe two sets of slicks and wets at the start of the season. They can then be marked up. This eliminates new tires and also enables freedom of choice in what rubber to use.
If i was starting out again i would def buy a FF1600

Many years ago it was allowed to run a 3 year old car in Mono, is that still the case?

I think its 4 now

Whoah.

the thread was about future sources of single-seaters not where to race them.

With the seeming demise of FFord the only new cars being produced will be carbon-tubbed (and the motorbike-engined jobbies).

So, what will I run in Mono in tenm years time Lola?

Carbon Reynards and stuff like that.

I am distictly nervous about the prospects of Carbo Tubs in the hands of clubmen. If a tubular chassis suffers a substancial accident it is relatively easy to determine whether tha chassis is damaged and by how much.
If the same accident is suffered in a carbon chassis extensive cracking and fatigue can result which is not visible, and can only be detected by x ray. This has resulted in a lot of Carbon FR chassis being periodically stripped and sent for x ray and in a lot of cases needing repair.
I think very few clubmen are sufficiently dedicated to periodically completely strip their car, even after a big shunt and so, cars with substancial chassis faults can be raced regularily and, if involved in a second shunt will offer very little protection for the driver.

Mine was stripped down to the tub in the winter 2001/2. It will be done and inspected again this winter.
Very true about these in the hands of inexperienced people but don’t tar us all with the same brush. The same can be said for steel space frames. How many of these are ever NDT tested?

Sorry Lola, I wasn't tarring anybody, I'm a club driver myself.
On the subject of NDT and carbon steel chassis, any crack which isn't visible to the naked eye will become so quite quickly. So it isn't possible to be driving for any length of time with a large undetected flaw in a tubular chassis. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with a Carbon tub.

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Yes JNW, my concern is not so much short-term, more 5 to 10 years. I wouldn't want to think of FF1600 as in any way a historic formula as, for me, that would be the end. I want it to be current. Regional, OK. Low-budget OK. But CURRENT.

PS I'll laugh when all the Zetec conversions have their arses kicked by well-prepped FF89s etc.
So thats were Diz stole this statement.I wonder what ole JRs driving now? :p

Originally posted by blue nose
So thats were Diz stole this statement.I wonder what ole JRs driving now? :p A VD01 with different coloured sidepods recently [I won't say yesterday, as that would give the game away]
PS I'll laugh when all the Zetec conversions have their arses kicked by well-prepped FF89s etc. I couldn't see if he was laughing. Damned full face helmets. :laugh:

The future still looks good for FF1600s.

Originally posted by diz
A VD01 with different coloured sidepods recently [I won't say yesterday, as that would give the game away]
I couldn't see if he was laughing. Damned full face helmets. :laugh:

http://www.mst-group.co.uk/singlesession.asp?table=43732qu1mf6&round=mallory.gif

JR apears to have have been 3 tenths off Paul Masons......yes you got it RF89! :laugh:

in fact juiceie isn't too far away :)

Whatever.