Avesco Vs. CAMS

I would like to know everyone's opinions on the current shift in power in Australian motorsport at the top level. which may very well spill over down the line of Australian Racing categories. Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I would really like to know where everyone stands.

Wasn't all of this resolved when the FIA intervened and put an end to it out of court?

Anyways, esentially.

Cams took Avesco to Court because they had become too powerful.

Avesco took Cams to court because Cams gave them the power.

Im very anti-Avesco at the best of times, but I really can't see either being entirely right on this one. It had the potential to ruin all motorsport, including V8s. Very good it didnt happen, but sad in a way it got to that point.

Much in the way that we love to blame Bill Gates and Microsoft for all our computer problems, we like to blame Tony Cochrane for destroying Australian motorsport if it didn't start and end with V8 Supercars...

I guess, as Crash Test has already alluded to, we don't really like what's happened and would rather not talk -- shout -- about it...

The sad thing is that there are very few motorsport fans in Australia. The majority are "V8 Hicks" (thanks David P:)) or the type who romp up to Surfers or Adelaide etc. Seriously, down at Indy last year i saw a heap of people that I knew, school teachers, work mates etc, and these folk aren't motorsport fans!

The thing is that if/when Avesco get their way, there will not be any races at permanant tracks, and half of the races will be held off shore. This will absolutely massacre what ever is left of Australian motorsport.

I've posted an interview with Lakeside's circuit manager on Accelerate (http://www.qrda.asn.au). He says things will be peachy, but he would want there to be more national packages. It is all well and good to say that we need mroe national packages, but they need people to attend. From the total lack of interest in Super Touring, Nascar, V8 Lites etc, it is quite obvious that Australia is not big enough to hae two major series.

With a little luck, Cochrane will take his show overseas never to be seen again, and something will come along and take its place in Australia. Meh...I'm dreaming again...

From what I hear next season, Avesco are putting up the price to hold a V8 event by nearly 200%. Now I know that this is a move which will bring the end of V8 supercar racing in Australia. People like PIMS (Phillip Island Motor Sport) will just laugh at them and say well have fun because you can't play here any more. Now I am not an AVESCO basher. I have been in contact with the Operations Manager Tony Manson, since before the whole court case went ahead. what I want to know is if Avesco has power where does that leave CAMS and the race director of the V8 class Tim Schenken. What sort of role does he play. Will Avesco take over more of the role of running their own event? I would love to know what the master plan is. But before we kick and scream about what is going on, remember that SEL and IMG the two big companies behind Avesco made it to where they are not from exploiting everythings so quickly and offensively, but they normally nurture and grow then reap the harvest when it is at its fullest. If it was going to be a quick money grabbing campaign then I think they would have gone about it differently. I say give them a go. If they can grow motorsport in Australia then we all will win not just the top liners.

$300,000 for a round is rediculous....no track in Australia can support that. Therefore, the tracks biggest money making event no longer makes money, but they wind up making a substantial loss. So what happens to permanant circuits? Do you keep opperating no matter what the cost is?

Also have you noticed the decline in grid numbers in the last few years at State level? I've posted some stats in the back issues of Accelerate (http://www.qrda.asn.au) which are fairly grpahic. What Avesco is doing is for Avescos sake. Taking 5 races in a 13 race series off shore can't be good for Motorsport in Australia...ok, it'll be a great thing for the people of Brunei, by the way, how many Bruneian V8 Fans do you know? Obviously they have a fan base there if TC is so hell bent on going over there....

Also, have you heard the rumours that the New Zealand race is in trouble before it even started? Noticed hwo they moved the date back 8 weeks ago, and some sources in NZ are saying that financially it could be in trouble...

I find it fascinating to reflect on opinions past. I went to page 221 to find this little gem.

I want us all to imagine how many more replies such a thread would command these days compared to a total of 5 over 4 days as with this, the original. It highlights the amazing growth of V8SC in 7 1/2 years. Our levels of interest, our levels of knowledge and desires to share opinions all go towards proving that whatever Cochrane has spearheaded has worked. V8SC is one mean show!

While true,

http://www.clanbum.com/v6/e107_files/public/22_old_thread.jpg

:p

Mick

Gee! is that how it all happened?
I thought CAMS was a wholely owned subsidiary of AVESCO/TEGA/VESA.
But then you sit back and watch while other promising series self destruct you start to understand why the Taxis control motorsport.

Very interesting readin and from 8 years ago.

I particulalrly like these couple of little snippets:
The thing is that if/when Avesco get their way, there will not be any races at permanant tracks, and half of the races will be held off shore. This will absolutely massacre what ever is left of Australian motorsport.



This actually happened in 2004:
From what I hear next season, Avesco are putting up the price to hold a V8 event by nearly 200%. Now I know that this is a move which will bring the end of V8 supercar racing in Australia. People like PIMS (Phillip Island Motor Sport) will just laugh at them and say well have fun because you can't play here any more.



I really like this one:
$300,000 for a round is rediculous....no track in Australia can support that. Therefore, the tracks biggest money making event no longer makes money, but they wind up making a substantial loss. So what happens to permanant circuits? Do you keep opperating no matter what the cost is?Try doubling that fee these days, and the rest is true as well. Lakeside gone (and now back in a smaller way)

Also have you noticed the decline in grid numbers in the last few years at State level? ..... Taking 5 races in a 13 race series off shore can't be good for Motorsport in Australia...ok,

Also, have you heard the rumours that the New Zealand race is in trouble before it even started?Well, that has come to fruition in part




What a laugh.:rofl: :rofl:

Especially when you consider that Vandas went on to become a full time employee of CAMS and disappeared from the forums forever.:rotate:

Well not quite - he still had his finger in the forum for a while while he was employed - but someone got caught fiddling with posts - didn't they?

What was that name - Dr Nah Nah something or other?

Dr Nether-regions ?

No - not his real one - the one he used but claimed he never used..

At the end of the day, both organizations have become 'a law upon themselves'.

Look at how AVE$CO/VE$A/TEGA have monopolies the sponsorship dollar and the the Intellectual Property rights over building V8 powered race cars in this country and possibly anywhere else in the world.

CAMS on the other hand, have taken up bullying everyone into submission in an attempt to also keep a monopoly on the sport. Which sounds similar to the above mentioned organization does as well to get there own way.

In reference to another thread, I see VE$A bleeding dry every corner of corporate Australia to stay alive in 10 years time and see CAMS going by the wayside if the same old people happen to stay. They're both "Old Boys Clubs" and those sorts of clubs only last as long as the members who try and keep the tradition and attitudes going.

I hear a strong rumour that VESA/AVESCO is forcing all old V8Supercar owners to remove the rear spoilers off the old cars as they (VESA) reckon they own them or their design, how low are these people going to go?

These are old cars for god's sake, what threat are they to today's cars?

Second that, I think I read it in eNews (the bit that I could be bothered waiting to load)
They will go as low as it takes for them to remain the top category , no matter what it takes. It could aldo be that some of these exV8SC are running in AASA events, and they have got their noses out of joint about that. Who really knows?

Mick

I also know of a BA Falcon that runs a 5 litre V8 (with a carby, not fuel injection), not an ex-V8Supercar, but does have similar spoilers where the owner was told by CAMS that they wouldn't register it as it was too much like a V8Supercar, this bloke was running at AASA events the last I heard, I wonder why?

I thought CAMS was a Member Organisation?, not a VESA Organisation (old words, but worth repeating - LOL)

why would we have an issue with copyright/intellectual property?

I also know of a BA Falcon that runs a 5 litre V8 (with a carby, not fuel injection), not an ex-V8Supercar, but does have similar spoilers where the owner was told by CAMS that they wouldn't register it as it was too much like a V8Supercar, this bloke was running at AASA events the last I heard, I wonder why?

I thought CAMS was a Member Organisation?, not a VESA Organisation (old words, but worth repeating - LOL)So if a road car had the same spoiler what would they do then?

So if a road car had the same spoiler what would they do then?

Get laughed off the road by anyone with a basic idea of how aerodynamics works, and probably canaried within a couple of days of being on the road.

Mick

Very interesting readin and from 8 years ago.

I particulalrly like these couple of little snippets:


This actually happened in 2004:


I really like this one:
Try doubling that fee these days, and the rest is true as well. Lakeside gone (and now back in a smaller way)

Well, that has come to fruition in part

What a laugh.:rofl: :rofl:

Oh you crazy kids, leave old school Crash Test alone!

We didn't realise you were such a visionary Crash, you are starting to move into the elite company of Uncle Cranker with your forward thinking - LOL

I hear a strong rumour that VESA/AVESCO is forcing all old V8Supercar owners to remove the rear spoilers off the old cars as they (VESA) reckon they own them or their design, how low are these people going to go?

These are old cars for god's sake, what threat are they to today's cars?
People have such short memories :)

Cast your mind back to the period between the changeover from Procar Utes to the current series - recall anything that happened with respect to the rear tray covers?

Same thing IIRC.

Ah yes, forgot about that, but it was one step against the VESA evil birds - hehehehehe

Not helped by CAMS who conveniently 'stayed out of it'...

I also know of a BA Falcon that runs a 5 litre V8 (with a carby, not fuel injection), not an ex-V8Supercar, but does have similar spoilers where the owner was told by CAMS that they wouldn't register it as it was too much like a V8Supercar, this bloke was running at AASA events the last I heard, I wonder why?

I thought CAMS was a Member Organisation?, not a VESA Organisation (old words, but worth repeating - LOL)

What was he trying to register it as? Perhaps he's built a car which doesn't conform to any of the existnig categories, and thus cannot be logbooked? Did he build it to Sports Sedans regs? Improved production? I know of an IPRA car in NSW that runs a VS Supercar front spoiler (or an almost exact replica), and it's logbooked and racing just fine and dandy in CAMS events. Methinks there's more to the non-logbooking that just a set of spoilers?

Was he talking about the BA Falcon that has been getting around on Future Tourers in the AMRS Touring Car Challenge?

I hear a strong rumour that VESA/AVESCO is forcing all old V8Supercar owners to remove the rear spoilers off the old cars as they (VESA) reckon they own them or their design, how low are these people going to go?


If i remember right the Flammini's (who run World Superbikes) tried a similiar stunt when bike GPs proposed changing from 2-stroke 500cc to 4-stroke 990cc, saying that WSB had 'acquired certain rights to four stroke racing', of course forgetting that 4-strokes had never been banned from 500s in the first place.

It wasn't the (supposed) ex-V8Supercar that the Touring Car Challenge allowed to race with a 6 litre motor was it :)