Heel & toeing and left foot braking in Formula Ford.

It seems to me that the art and ability to ‘heel & toe’ is rapidly disappearing in FF. Maybe it’s not necessary, or even desirable anymore. What about left foot braking - is that now universal in FF?
Interested to get some feedback from you FF pilots.

Heel and Toe - absolutely - esp on the "big stops" and in the wet.

Left foot braking - doubtful makes any difference over a laptime.

Not possible to left foot brake on many of the older cars as the s/column is in the way - unfortunately.

Agree Steve, some left foot brake, but very few. All the quick peole heel and toe. Heel and toe makes a difference between laptime. Left foot braking does as well, but it takes some getting used to, and you go a lot slower when learning!

This is interesting.
I have never got round to learning to heel and toe, and neither have my two sons. An interesting conversation ensued between the quicker of my sons and another driver with whom he sometimes finds m=himself racing with around the front of the BARC Renault field. The other driver was a believer of heeling and toeing and neither could understand how the other could drive as quickly as he did.
This leads one to question whether it really does achieve anything other than make a safer down change in the wet.

you can drive a FF without heel and toe and be quick, but in othere categories with H gearbox you will absolutelly need it. The problem now a days is that if you dont learn to master it in FF is very difficult to learn it later, and even worst if you have being fast in FF. Its a pitty, but drivrs are less and less prepared now a days.

left foot braking can be useful in corners without a downchange and these are usually fast corners. To be honest, I tried it once, scared myself silly and have been reluctant to do it again.
Incidentally, a good way to practice is to knock your road car into neutral and use your left on the stopper - it will give you the touch that you need if you haven't karted.

A lot of driver in that we get dont want to learn the important things like that because they tend to think they already know everything. The first thing we have to do is make them realise that they are there to learn not win, and then winning will come to them.

Its also a problem that drivers now are in such a rush to move up, they dont stick around and learn they just want to keep moving up to the next step.

I remember watching Dan Wheldon when he was in FF, I dont think he ever bothered H/T but compare his style to Jenson Buttonwho was super smooth and always H/T and who made fewer mistakes?! I have always done it if nothing else it sounds better innit!!

Do you need to though? If you're left foot braking, as long as you get the car intro neutral before you blip, isnt that pretty much the next best thing to heel-toe? As long as the downchange is smooth id assume mission accomplished.

Slip a single seater into neutral whilst braking !!! Good luck, I think you'll be eating gravel quicker than John Holmes's love interest whilst filiming on a beach!

H&T - a) No you don;t 100% need it in FF b)It makes you smoother (slightly) and I am sure if you progress up the ladder into quikcer and more power machinery you'll find it more and more useful

LFB - IMO I have only ever LFB a single seater at same gear corners (and to be honest slow same gear corners as I haven;t mastered it). Occassionally I brake normally (and h&t) and let my left foot take over the braking and get onto the power with my right (ie at Druids @ Brands)

If you really are interested in LFB speak to Pennti Arrikala - he's the man.

Your asking for trouble if you try and Left Foot Brake in a FF for one most 1600 cars have the steering in the way, for two its not like theve too much power to harness !!.

As for Heel and Toe it does help i believe as you don't tend to get the rear wheels locking which can be quite exciting at some corners. Also it takes the shock out of the transmission and saves the dogrings .

This is indeed fascinating.

Is it of general opinion that the Zetec national championship guys, who are invariably ex-karters heel & toe, and or left foot brake?

They should do and we try to teach them how to drive race cars properly, but often when they come from karting they think they already know it all.

I tested a Zetec car for a very top squad once in the late 90s, and was talking to a driver who did *very* well in F3, and I was asking him how he was getting his downchanges in time for a particular corner, and he couldnt comprehend that I was using a clutch. Apparently the rest of the team werent even breathing the throttle on upshifts.

Russfeld, this is what I'm hearing.
I'm faced with a dilema with coaching an ex karter. Do I say "what the hell" and just slam it through the gears, clutchless! Or do i teach him to heel and toe and use the clutch?

What's the view guys?

If its your car or your team, he'd better learn. Put it this way, when he breaks the gearbox, make him repair the first one. One of the reasons I made sure I knew how to heel-toe was because I did a stint as a school mechanic. I can stack gears faster than I could get a girl's bra off.

From a practical standpoint, more and more cars are losing their manuals, at the very least they're going sequential. The ideal mix imo is a driver with good enough footwork that they can left foot brake and still baby the gearbox. I had a video of Emmerson Fittipaldi driving CART at Phoenix *way* back and he's left foot braking a regular H pattern, with no clutch on up or downshifts. Sounded amazing and he had the foot action of a ballerina.

teach him how to do it properly and looking after the box, once he knows how to do it he can choose not to, but is very important for a driver to be able to do it if he needs to. I can prove to you that no matter what car, in the rain is faster to drive with heel and toe, and for sure as Russfeld says the team box budget will notice it a lot!!!

I agree Russfeld and Morcilman totaly. I don't think you can beat 'knowing' how to do it all - then choosing 'if' you want to do it all. Lets face it. It's a fat lot of use being a 10th or two faster for a few laps... but wrecking the gearbox and not finishing!
I understand the likes of Davidson never bothered with the clutch, on up or down shifts - and so never bothered with Heel&Toe manouveres !!!

Having raced in FFord 1600 for 2 seasons and having just completed the Zetec Winter Series I would say Heel and Toe is a must. Some chicanes I don't but that’s so I get the 'snatch' effect to aid the car change direction, but in all other situations heel and toeing is so much smoother. As said, it’s more important in the wet as if you just bang into a lower gear the rear locks which creates oversteer on entry which is not so desirable. I know of drivers who are consistently going through dog rings but we did a whole season only changing a dog once.

In a Zetec I think it’s more important to do it as they do require a bigger heel and toe than a 1600. I’ll be surprised if there are drivers not doing it at this level as I can only see it as a big compromise, not only on reliability but on performance too.

Why do you heel and toe if some people deem it unecasary?

How do you *not* match the revs though? I can understand clutchless upshifts with a breathe, but even those are risky. I lost my first ever race lead getting too nervous and grabbing neutral instead of the next gear. Likewise I threw away a decent podium later on doing a downshift to 1st and locking up the rear and doing a 180. And that time I was heel-toing, I just got too excited. I cant imagine how you can do a lap at competitive speed without treating the gearbox properly. How the hell do these guys drive road cars?

I've always done it from my first ever test in a fford. My dad, an ex-rally driver, taught me heel and toeing in a road car while I was still karting. In road cars you heel and toe to stop the massive weight transfer of engine breaking and it just seems the natural thing to do. To be quite honest I have never tried to drive a lap not doing it. I feel it would just destroy the box for starters and the price dogs are you don't want to be doing that.

Originally posted by Don Rennis
It seems to me that the art and ability to ‘heel & toe’ is rapidly disappearing in FF. Maybe it’s not necessary, or even desirable anymore. What about left foot braking - is that now universal in FF?
Interested to get some feedback from you FF pilots.

I heard that Clarkey-boy is good at Hell and toeing... oops I mean heel and toe-ing and left foot braking. Dont know how much of that to beleive though:laugh:

When I am on the limit turning in to a corner if I do a poor job of heel and toeing I always lose time as it unsettles the car. I have to use extra lock and can't get back on the throttle as quick but I don't necessarily lose a place. I have listened very carefully to all the front runners and every one heels and toes. I don't think it is a question of how much power I think it is how little power. Less power means every bit of speed you lose hurts your lap time more.

I am still trying to learn how to left foot brake - my tutor tells me it is at its most effective when you need to lose a little bit of speed for a high speed corner, and by left foot braking you can keep the throttle on and avoid unwanted weight transfer.

For what it's worth, and I've been racing for over 30 years, how can you downshift a gearbox with no synchromesh without toeing and heeling? Just go crash crash crash through the unmatching teeth and jarr the transmission and unloaded rear wheels at the same time? Surely not.
And left foot braking still has to be the biggest waste of time for 99% of users. Left foot braking is all about getting rally cars turned early in a corner, keeping the rear wheels slipping, and keeping turbo chargers full of charge, dependant upon brake balences and stuff; nothing to do with the quickest way round a circuit.
This is a huge red herring IMHO.

Heel and Toe is a must if you want to be smooth in a Formula Ford. If nothing else, it saves from 'Bogging down' in the slow corners by keeping the revs up.

With regards to left foot braking, certain cars won't allow it due the positioning of the rack (Swift '92 for example), but if the car permits, then it can be very handy. Take Oulton Park and Druids. Some people take it in third. Some in fourth. There is no right or wrong, it is just a mind set, but if you take it in fourth, then a little progressive left foot braking keeps the car nice and smooth on turn in. I find..........

Of course you blip the throttle on FF. Have you ever watched testing? All the fast people give the throttle a big stab before knocking it down a gear. This enables you to use a bit more rear brakes as well since youre matching the revs and not upsetting the rear so much thus decreasing brake distance, especially for hairpins.

Left foot braking wont help you go quicker in a FF, since you will have problems operating the clutch and the brake at the same time on downchange with your left foot =)

Regarding an earlier post. I think why less people toe heel in FF now (winter series...) is because not many of them where very experienced drivers..to put it in a nice way.

If you left foot brake in a fast corner all you are really doing is taking grip away from the front but not from the rear. So in theory you are not using 100% of the cars grip but maybe 95% since you are asking the front tyres to steer and brake at the same time. The rear tyres will keep pushing anyway so that will then be like lifting off the throttle a touch. It is then, again in theory, better to bleed of the throttle just a bit so you are decelarating or keeping constant but on power, just using the grip to slow the car.

....but then again theory and real life are two different things so its a case of "whatever floats your boat"

Surelt it's h&t down and no clutch up?

I can't LFB because of the steering column

John

Well I am in GM Man's boat!

I agree with the majority of the comments so far: heel & toe a must keeps you smooth and saves the box. I've just completed my 3rd season on the same set of dogs. But perhaps I'm just showing off!!!! Definitely a must in the wet unless you want to end up facing the way you've just come from.

Seriously though having spoken to a couple of zetec team bosses they were constantly bemoaning the number of dog rings they were going through, with their drivers using clutchless changes both up and down the box. I can't honestly see the point in not using the clutch on the way down the box as what time are you going to save? You're braking anyway, so what's the point?

Now, what about "power shifting" on the way up the box? Anyone tried it? Do you need shares in an exhaust valve company?

How you doing Mr Swift. I always Power Shift. You wouldn't believe the difference it makes. The car really launches itself through each gear and I have never had to change dogs. You try power shifting on a test session, then go back out and use the clutch on your shifts. You will see what I mean. I agree with you on the down shifts though. Apart from having to be spot on or you lock the rears, it really isn't worth it as you are losing speed.

my uncle has raced the same Chevron F3 car since 1977 and he has never healed and toed in his life. Just able to match the revs every time. I have always done it because it was what Jim Russell Racing School told me!! Once you have cracked it is a good this to use and like Swift said, in the wet it is very important. Walshy, how do you power shift? Just keep your foot planted on the throttle and ram the gear change in without using the clutch? Do you need to life off?

I've just caught up on all this, been out of the country for a couple of days. I think it's right about transmission wear being increased without heeling and toeing, we go through clutch plates faster than some people who do heel and toe, but then again we have virtually no gearbox damage when others get plenty.I also agree about the unsettling in the wet, what I can't find any definate evidence of is the car going quicker if you heel and toe, and that, for us is the important question.
Over the years I have met all manner of people who tell me that if you can't heel and toe you will never be quick and then beat them by miles.
So transmission wear and downchanges in the wet I agree with, but speed in the dry? Hmmmmm, can't see it.

I think the power shift thing really only works if you have a rev limiter fitted (Electrical,multi use), rather than the exhaust valve system ,(mechanical,single use!) fitted as standard to all FF1600's. As the revs stutter on the limit, the load is taken off the dogs and you pop the next gear in.

Stu used to use the clutch up and down the box until I told him to look at this link: http://www.hewland.com/svga/help.htm

Since then 15 meetings and test days - 1 dog ring, oil like new every time I looked. Just got to find a way of making the engine as reliable now.

HI Guys,

I have been looking at your responses, and if you are interested in Zetec in how to change gear and go fast this is what to do:

On the up shift, you keep your foot flat and ram it through the gears

On the down shift, you heel and toe,

although you can left foot brake but it takes a lot more effort to get it right and surely you want to go as fast as you can with the least amount of effort ???

But if you do this your cost of keeping your gearbox healthy will go up! but then are you out there to be average or to win ?

;)

The need to H&T I find also depends on the spacing of the ratios, if they are very close it is not so important and you can power shift up and down smoothly, but if there is a big change with a large rev drop then H&T is compulsory.

Kartingdad, Nick from UCLAN sent me this link a while ago but not had time to read it till now so you promted me. I understand most of it but not sure if William Hewland was saying not to use the clutch on upshifts? Did he say just a slight lift of the throttle and select the gear without the need to use the clutch?

How do you do it properly?

Is it a case of lots of practice or what?

Protos - I am amazed you can just ram it into gear with your foot flat unless you dip the clutch slightly..

Do exactly as Mr Hewland says and you won't go wrong..

I don't use the clutch on the way up - just a slight lift. Except for 1st to 2nd at Mallory the where the rev drop is high, and often doesn't go in (partly because the dog is ****ed!). I H&T on the way down.

HI Guys,

I have been looking at your responses, and if you are interested in Zetec in how to change gear and go fast this is what to do:

On the up shift, you keep your foot flat and ram it through the gears

On the down shift, you heel and toe,

although you can left foot brake but it takes a lot more effort to get it right and surely you want to go as fast as you can with the least amount of effort ???

But if you do this your cost of keeping your gearbox healthy will go up! but then are you out there to be average or to win ?

;)

As I'm not an FF man, only FF2000 and Renault, could someone explain to me how this exhaust valve system works which appears to be allowing you guys to flat shift on the way up?

I think it was a joke Bob. Like you'll bend the valves if you overrev it.

Have to admit don't h&t much in FF1600 as I find I cock it up too often. Powershift with no clutch and NO lift is easy except, as Justin says, perhaps between first and second but then only a tiny bit if clutch.

redracer, Stu just lifts ever so slightly and since adopting that method has only missed 1 gearchange all season, bending 3 valves and making it tricky to keep Hutch and JL's VD at bay.

Stu says the gears just slot in sooo easy now, and as I said, the box and oil stays very healthy. i would think in a kent if you shift up without a lift, apart from the carnage inside the 'box you run the risk of an over rev if it doesn't go in first time, with the consequence of bent valves.

Having said that, Hutch uses his clutch both up and down and we didn't have the heart to tell him about clutchless upshifts as he's far too quick anyway.

Redracer57.

Yep. I just keep my foot planted. It takes a bit of getting used to as the left foot automatically wants to press the clutch pedal. So you end up clutching some times and then finally, you don't use it at all. You have to be pretty sharp with the shifts though. If you catch it spot on, the gears just slip in and the car feels like it has some sort of launch control on it. 2nd to 3rd can cause problems until you get it right. Apparently, it is made even easier with the use of Glebe ratio's, but I wouldn't know. Another thing would be the gear oil. I have tried several types and I found the best to be Rock Oil. It's the motorcycle gear oil. It looks like water and smells like cat pi$$, but does the trick. If you remember back a couple of years when Pikey hit Stockton up the back coming out of Deer Leap when they were running 1 2?
Well, we talked Pikey into power shifting and he got the hang of it. The reason he hit Stockton up the back was that Stockton's car slowed that 1/2 second while he hit the clutch for the gear change and Pikey's car was hard on it as he shifted to 3rd. Luckily for Pikey, he was carrying an on-board camera that recorded the whole incident, so the Stewards ruled it a racing incident. Chris wasn't to happy. So there you go. As I said, once you get the hang of it, it really makes a big difference.

No-one uses a clutch on the upshift.

On the downshift, you either heel-and-toe, or you bang it straight in, at the right revs, clutchless - that depends on the car, the conditions (wet/dry) etc. You never want to lock your wheels under any circumstances, else yuou've lost time.

But you NEVER change down like your granny does in a road car.

I, of course, always change down like my granny does, but then again I'm not a racing driver.

And my granny is.

Here she is..... http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36548&perpage=25&highlight=Danica%20Patrick&pagenumber=3

Originally posted by Mr Jinxx

On the downshift, ....... you bang it straight in, at the right revs, clutchless -



How do you get the right revs without blipping the throttle on the downshift....willpower?

I dont think Will Power is good enough to heel and toe

Same as you do if you have to double-de-clutch on the old cars or wagons, etc. You get used to the sound. Experience.

I reiterate, I am telling it as Alex tells me - I've never done it. I heel and toe in a road car as a matter of course (if the pedal configuration allows) but never flat shift. But that's the way the top lads do it, I'm told.

If I drive an automatic, I left-foot-brake (or can swap seamlessly to right foot braking, doesn't matter). So if I can do it, I guess a racing driver can swap easy as pie. Alex told me when he drove the Renault V6 (where you have to left foot brake) that it takes roughly 20 seconds to acclimatise. He normally right foot brakes in FRenault/F3.

I still feel there is a breakdown in logic from the heel and toe team.
I can believe that there is a theoretical advantage in reduced transmission wear and less rear tyre drama if the driver exactly synchronises the revs between the dog rings and the gears on each change down, i.e, perfect heel and toe. But how is that possible. The amount of revs required varies from gear to gear depending on the choice of ratios,the point in the rev range the change takes place and any partial lock up of one or both rear wheels during the change down. I can't believe that you can watch the rev counter and do all the necessary calculations to ensure exact synchronisation.
Having said all that I am just a bit jealous because it certainly sounds good and I have probably been around too long to learn now.

it takes so litle time to find the amount of revs required, its not that difficult. You still have to take the cluch out and the speed that you do that will compensate if you have put to much revs. In a couple of laps with new ratios you will find the right amount of gas required. Some times you put deliberately too much or too less if you need it as well. Is a very important part of car control

and yo are right, it sounds great!!! Bob is never to late, came on! go out there and heel and toe, you will feel great and you will control the car better.

I have run drivers who have no comprehension of 'heel and toeing',one who drives a road car like a snail, one who could not grasp the principal of bump starting, all hold lap records in FF1600, and win races.
I have come to the conclusion that all mechanical sympathy does is save on repair bills.

Originally posted by Bob Pearson
I can't believe that you can watch the rev counter and do all the necessary calculations to ensure exact synchronisation.

You don't watch the rev counter at all, you just get used to the right amount of blip on the throttle and listen to the engine note. Main problem with a lot of road cars is the pedal positions i.e. brake and throttle are too far apart when you're braking hard or you can't press the brake pedal hard enough to rock your foot on to the throttle smoothly as the brakes are a bit over-servoed.

Never too late to learn Bob! Have you seen what's under those helmets at the clubbie meetings - grey and wrinkly is the norm!!

You don't need to tell me what is under the helmets Red Dog, I'm 57 tomorrow and expect to run another season in 2004 in BARC Renault.

So you've served your apprenticeship? Now you're ready to win in style. Overnight succes is never appreciated anyway.;)

Your right, it certainly wasn't overnight success.
You can imagine my reaction when a spectator drops into the paddock and starts a chat and tells me that he would love to be doing this, but he's too old now.

H&T essential for smooth fast driving. I too struggle with left foot braking thing (partly due to Steering column location! I go clutch less up the box and use the clutch down the box. I have seen real performance improvements without the clutch it is without dought the fastest and best way. I have not seen any degradation in gearbox component wear either.

I believe that for any young driver new to the sport H & T along with an education as to why, "mechanical Sympathy for one" is important. It is the fundamental grounding that will stand him / her in good stead for the future.

Are people shifting up clutchless in Kents as well as Zetecs?

Sorry to go of thread slightly but how is the Pnk Panther now Andy?

Still stripping down. It lookes better than I at first thought, but having said that once things are cleaned up it always looks better.

Hope to be back by May.
Regards
Andy

Heel and Toe is very old school, alot depends on the car and gearbox, the principal behind it is to aid car control and weight distribution especially at mid corner sections of fast corners. Hewland will tell you that using the clutch on most of it's dog ring boxes does more harm than not using it. Reason : when you press the clutch you unload the imput shaft which is then snapped back under load when release happens, the more worn the dog rings and ratios are the more wear increases, this however is not the case with sequential as we run now in our Renaults, Clutch once to get off the line and then up changes and drop downs are all clutch free, the limiter is set 250rpm above shift point, so flat changing is the norm. The perfect set would be to gear your car so that you avoid untimely and badly positioned gear changes to avoid the need to match Revs with gears on a mid corner change, not an easy job as you may find what is good for one corner is bad for another but a comprimise can normally be made. As for left foot braking, yes very good skill to master, more so on clutch free sequential cars, this technique is great car balancer as you can remain on full or part throttle and balance the car in with th brakes and at exit you are already on the power when you fade out the brake pressure. My tip would be for older cars work on your style and gearing to avoid the need to heel and toe rev match as when you jump in a sequential it will be useless anyhow, work hard on left foot braking, you will probably brake to hard to start with but it soon comes, this will make you faster.:beer:

The other benefit of left foot braking is that you don't lose the time taken for your foot to come off the brake and plant it back on the gas. Also the engine is kept working at a consistent rate all the time, so you also don't lose time with throttle response, particularly with a turbo car.

Jensen,
Is there enough room to left foot brake in the current generation of Formula Renault. Certainly in the previous generation of Tatuus's the driver would need exceptionally small feet to get the left foot past the steering column. Although I agree with the principle of flat shifts, I am not sure that I agree with your theory about unloadng the drivetrain when clutching. It must also occur in the split second as the dog rings pass between gears even with a flat shift.

with some modifications you can left food brake, you can make a pedal that can be operated from both sides, or you can brake with the heel, you have to press harder, but that will allow you more room for precision. I have seing both thing successfully done

I am reading all your comments with interest.
There is a further consideration on toeing and heeling and the use of a crash/race gearboxes and that is the use of double de clutching on the down shifts (which I can't stop myself doing since learning to race the first FFords).
This is, Bob Pearson, the moment the gearlever passes into and out of the 'neutral' part of the lever gate, if your clutch foot releases the clutch and that coincides with a blip of the accelerator, then the appropriate shaft in the box is spun up to a higher speed (approx the revs of the new lower gear being selected), then the next ratio is selected with the clutch depressed thereby unloading the cogs in any case, without any real stress on the dog teeth. The engine will also be at high revs and a smoother down shifttakes place, particularly relavent in the wet for example.
It's must easier to practice and describe this while driving an old London bus than it is a late FF, but the sequence is the same.

Sorry, but there is still NO DOUBT in my mind that left foot braking techniques are still IMHO a blind alley for the majority of circumstances on the circuit. Cars (not Karts) have too much weight to transfer and too great a suspension movement in the main to make this technique necessary.
Be clear about this, if you are not a regular race winner, left foot braking will not change things one iota.

I think you will find that in a s/seater left footbraking is best used to steady the car in high speed corners where a downshift isn't required anyway. The gearchange/downshift malarky isn't involved, it's just a methos=d of slowing/stabilising the car without lifting off the gas.

As with most things, maybe don't knock it until you have tried it.

Crikey, gfm, thats a right performance. I knew that drivers of old lorries etc had to change down that way in the 50's, but I never for a moment thought anyone did that in current race cars. Evidence I have seen with my own eyes show winners from both the heeling and toeing and non heeling and toeing camps, in fact I have seen non heeling and toeing racers out brake a heeling and toeing driver in battles at the front of the field. The only thing I know for sure is that heeling and toers make Renault clutch plates last much longer than non Heeling and toers.

I've been reading this thread with interest..
Do you guys recommend heel and toeing in a single seater with a syncro gearbox (like my FVee) ?

Bob - it is a right performance, and I'm bound to admit , if someone's threatening to outbrake you, your H & T plus D D C needs to be bloody hasty!
Woody - yes is the answer, if only from the aspect of NOT locking up the unloaded rear wheels on abrupt declutching of the engine at low rpm. IMHO.
As this thread has developed, there's definately a few obvious differences appearing which make sense. Firstly, all this namby pamby double declutching and such won't help the sprint single seater brigade in their ten lappers, whereas if you want to be at the end of a 24 Hour race, you'll learn to baby your transmission at the same time as being quick. Certainly, your team mates will have something to say if you don't!

Sorry, the above posts of mine assumes that most Formula Forders are on their way to bigger things in racing. So good habits now are worth practising.

Evening All!

I race in a national single seater catergory (slicks & wings) with a top team.

We are taught that heal & toe is a must and this is made a great deal easier as we left foot brake (sequential gearbox on these cars). During testing it is something that we spend a lot of time perfecting. The general principal that we are taught is that time is made on the brakes with a downforce car. As we brake as late as possible, right into the apex. The car is on the limit into the Apex (we are taught to feel the car roll all the way until there is no movement left on the rear rollbar and hence the next stage is for the rear tyres to slide) and therefore if we did not H&T the small amount of lock caused going down the gears would cause the rear tyres to lose adhesion. In the dry we are talking minute amounts, in the wet it can make more difference, however it all contributes.

Left foot braking - the principal we are taught here is that a) It avoids flucuations in brake pedal pressure when H&T.

B) When following a car (with powerful brakes and downforce - hence even greater stopping power) very closely, it can be easy to hesitate when approaching a braking zone, in fear of hitting the car in front when it brakes,

C) It allows you to hold off the brakes for that extra split second in order to brake later into a corner (as opposed to transfering your right foot over) seems like a small advantage but when travelling at 140 / 150 Mph those extra few 10ths of a second equate to several meters.

D) It allows smoother application of the brake pedal.

When I drove in Fords I didnt H&T and didnt do to badly. I was always taught to clutchless flatshift up the box and then I used a bit of clutch going down the box with the Hewland 4spd H box.

I guess its really down to preference, but I am converted to the benefits of H&T and left foot braking in a downforce car with sequential box, ive spent sometime looking at the results on my data and it definetly helps me!

Hope this helps

Muz

I think the results of this thread indicate that H&T may not gain you time each downshift, but you are able, providing you can do it properly, to ensure that you don't lose any time thru a poor downchange NOT H&T.

It just makes your driving more reliable and consistant and your box will last longer.

I suppose it's like using your direction indicators on the road - you don't HAVE to use them, but it's better, safer and less stressful if you do!