Barton, Andy

To pick up various themes from various threads, what does anyone remember of Andy B, in particular, his single seat cars. From memory, after his Mini days, he had a Lotus 69, March 73B (updated along the way), Chevron B35, Sana/Barton JTB3, March 77B, March 782/79B, March 802, AC3000, the latter based on the last March as I recall.

I saw quite a lot of him in the 70s at Mallory/Donington, but I think he was based further north, as Croft seemed to be his home track. Anyone any memories of Andy or his cars ? Is he still around, or retired ?

I saw him loads at Croft 69-74, since that was orignally my local track, firstly in his Mini against the likes of Sedric Bell & Alex Clacher, there were some great races.

College (and thus lack of spending money) kept me away during his single-seater stuff in the later 70s, but saw him in the 802, and the 802-based AC in the early-mid 80s.

I'd love to know what he's up to aswell.

My dad thinks Andy Barton is some kind of god. Some of the stories he tells me are mythical, like where legends come from. Most of the time I dont believe him, I'll get him to email me some.

I just got this email:

About four years ago, I stopped in to see Andy Barton in the garage he still runs in Throckley, Newcastle which still looks the same as I remember from the seventies. Andy hadn’t looked to have aged a day and was still as fit as a butcher’s dog. He now gets his speed thrills from a high powered speed boat that he owns in Majorca where he has a house next door to Julian Bailey.

As a kid, I used to travel all over with Andy Barton, sat in his formula 2 car in the back of his transporter. I have memories of things like him taking tyres off wheels with his bare hands. If the engine started from cold on three cylinders he would remove the spark plug with the engine running, replace it with another, refit the plug lead and the engine would run ok.

After crashing an AC on the road I remember him racing with a steel pin sticking out of his elbow, which he wrapped foam and tank tape around and still managed to change gear and drive very quickly. When he finished the race he had a bottle of whisky under the seat for the pain. No modern bull**** here. We used to sleep in the truck and get completely ratted the night before races.

I remember at one group 8 race at Mallory, the chevron, having broken a drive shaft, crashed at the hairpin due to lack of brakes. We repaired the car and ‘borrowed’ a Beetle drive shaft leaving a note on the windscreen to say we would return it after the race.

These memories are from a long time ago and maybe a little bit ‘rose tinted’…

Also some more cars to add. He started with an NFU Prince, followed by a Morris Minor 1000 then 3 Minis, the last one he badly crashed at Croft at the end of the straight which put him out for 2 years. Then he got a Lotus 69 Ex Fittipaldi Moonraker car which he sold to long time friend Davy Muter. Followed by a previously crashed March 72b from Geoff Friswell and updated to a 742. Then he bought a 752 and the rest of Dan's list is accurate.

Davy Muter also bought the Barton JTB3, which was a Sana with a longer adapter to make it have a longer wheelbase.

Mackmot, do you or your Dad know where the Ironman got a couple of those cars from. The Chevron B35 he had in early 77, but not for long I think, then the 782/79B he had from mid-79 to 1981 or so. Both are a bit of a mystery to us 'tub no crunchers' !

Also did Dave Muter buy Andy's cars from him, or borrow/hire them when Andy got a newer one.

I also remember him as a tough looking chap, very short hair for the time, a bid Squaddie-like even. I was always a bit wary of approaching him, I was only 14 or so at the time! Very goood driver though as I remember, pretty much unbeatable in Croft/Ingliston Libres, unless someone like Crawford went up there, or Dickson in a bigger car. He also went very well when he ventured south to Mallory/Donington, even Silverstone occasionally.

Stories like yours re his elbow, or the Beetle driveshaft borrowing are great, just what makes 10/10ths so brilliant. Any more like that, about Andy or anyone else ???

I remember marshalling at Donington on a 2 dayer sometime in the mid 80s. Cant remember the meeting or what he was driving but the Saturday night in the bar at Redgate was legendary. Big crowd in there and the place was buzzing. Getting louder and louder as the drink went down. They had just installed a new TV Projector on the ceiling and were playing Tom and Jerry Cartoons back to back. The whole place was booing Tom and cheering Jerry. Bartons entourage were the loudest by far. They eventually took to smashing each other over the head with a tin tray in time to the music! Mad Night.

I'm sure I remember the Morris 1000. Was it white with a thick blue stripe down the middle?

This would be back in the mid/late '60s at Croft and Rufforth etc. If it's the same guy and the same car, he was amazing - must have created an impression given that it is now nearly 40 years ago.

In those days, I was in my early/mid teens and we used to go to school on Saturday mornings. I used to go to watch the racing with a mate from school (Tim Heaton - where are you now?) whose Dad raced a Riley 1.5 on and off and had a 3.8 Mk2 Jag as a road car.

He used to collect us both from school in Wakefield at 12-00 and we would be off to Croft, Rufforth even Oulton Park, always getting there before the racing started. I still remember one trip to Oulton (no M62 then) when we raced over to Cheshire, Tim's Dad driving the Jag with a pint in a handle glass sat in front of the gear lever. Never spilled a drop but drank it as we travelled.

Happy days:D

STEVE

This is Andy's March 77B, from an ad for it in the back of an old Autosport.

Which Autosport is that Andrew??

Andrew/Mackmot, thats the 782/79B, not the 77B, and is one of Andy's 'mystery' cars. Any more info on it ?

Dan

Picking this up again, I believe the car pictured here may have been built up from a crashed 782 tub, according to a very early 1979 A/Sport report. Anyone any ideas ?

Apparently that sounds about right. My dad says he has a vague memory that that was a ex Ingo Hoffmann car that Andy bought damaged and repaired, as with so many of the cars he bought.

He also adds a memory of a Chevron B35 that he crashed into a toilet block at Ingliston which was the same block that Doug Niven crashed into with his V8 Escort.

I needed a break from BT35 speculation so here's a few things I spotted about Barton's cars while looking up March 802s:

Close season stock:
Autosport advert 29 Jan 1981 p53
March 78/79 B Atlantic or Hill Climb car available with or without spare tub
March 772P/77B Atlantic or Hill Climb car rebuilt with new tub Aug 1980.

He raced up to:
Scotcircuit 26 Apr (AS 7 May 1981 p45) : March-Hart 782

but then (Autosport 7 May 1981 p42)
"Barton wrote off his March 792 in practice at Croft on Easter Monday". He was "just getting the car sorted after fitting a Hart 420R over the winter to replace the Atlantic unit fitted in 1980". The engine is OK and "Andy has another tub to rebuild the car around".

In the following weeks:
Oulton 9 May (AS 21 May 1981 p50) : March-Hart 772
Mallory 10 May (AS 21 May 1981 p47) : March-Hart 792
Scotcircuit 17 May (AS 28 May 1981 p48) : March 782 ("rebuilt")
AS 11 Jun 1981 p43: March-Hart 792
AS 25 Jun 1981 p54: March-Hart 78/792

So did he stick the Hart in the back of his old 772P/77B for the weekend of 9-10 May and then rebuild his 782/79B around a "new" tub in time for the next weekend?

Allen

The Andy Barton AC 3000M was bought by Ron Cumming then Ron sold it to David Smail in Glasgow, who I think still owns the shell, used a cosworth yb as far as I can remember? Last ran in about 2002 or 2000 I think!

Andy Barton was a bit of an Ingliston legend. I remember the B35 which maybe went to one of the scottish Libre drivers (can't remember who maybe Stuart Rollo?) he had March 77B then a 78b/782 which he seemed to develop extensively until it had 80b style sidepods and 792 nose. He kept the 77B which appeared to be hired out to Cameron Binnie.
The JTB3 appeared between the 77B & the 78B and Andy didn't use it for long. Part of the 78 season probably then I think it went onto Dave Muter.
Aaah - memories.

...He kept the 77B which appeared to be hired out to Cameron Binnie...That could explain a lot!!

where is cameron binnie from? Is he cumbrian?

My Dad has the number for someone in Penrith who has a 782 with an atlantic bda. I'll pass the details on if it helps.

I think Cameron Binnie was a Scot, and a mate of Andy's. He used Andy's Barton and 77B after Andy had progressed. Pretty quick chap as I recall, he had one of the first PRS FFs, and went well in it 'up North', and also further south against stronger opposition.

Cameron, I don't think Andy sold his B35 to anyone else, I think he totalled it early on in its life with him, ie Spring 77. You may be referring to Stuart Lawson and Bob Rollo, who were Northern Libre stalwarts of that time. Rollo may have had the ex-Andy 73B/742/75B whatever, Lawson I think had an ex-Dickson car or 2.

[QUOTE=allenbrown]I needed a break from BT35 speculation so here's a few things I spotted about Barton's cars while looking up March 802s:

Close season stock:
Autosport advert 29 Jan 1981 p53
March 78/79 B Atlantic or Hill Climb car available with or without spare tub
March 772P/77B Atlantic or Hill Climb car rebuilt with new tub Aug 1980.

He raced up to:
Scotcircuit 26 Apr (AS 7 May 1981 p45) : March-Hart 782

but then (Autosport 7 May 1981 p42)
"Barton wrote off his March 792 in practice at Croft on Easter Monday". He was "just getting the car sorted after fitting a Hart 420R over the winter to replace the Atlantic unit fitted in 1980". The engine is OK and "Andy has another tub to rebuild the car around".

Allen,

In the following weeks:
Oulton 9 May (AS 21 May 1981 p50) : March-Hart 772
Mallory 10 May (AS 21 May 1981 p47) : March-Hart 792
Scotcircuit 17 May (AS 28 May 1981 p48) : March 782 ("rebuilt")
AS 11 Jun 1981 p43: March-Hart 792
AS 25 Jun 1981 p54: March-Hart 78/792

So did he stick the Hart in the back of his old 772P/77B for the weekend of 9-10 May and then rebuild his 782/79B around a "new" tub in time for the next weekend?


Allen, we know the 77B was ex-Ian S from ZA, and think the 782/79B/792 was ex-Hoffman. I'm intrigued by the Mallory 81 May 10 meet. I haven't got a prog from it, so presume I wasn't there (A-levels looming maybe the reason I missed it !!), what was the meeting/race Andy was in ? I can't think he'd have stuck the Hart in the 77B would he, did he borrow a real 772, the ex-Dickson one maybe?

I saw the 782/79B on July 5 '81, at the Donington Open race, supporting the Belgian Touring Cars (really!), it was entered as a "782 Hart". Andy quallied well down, perhaps running it in (?), but cane thru' to 2nd behind Val M's 'Bennepaldi'.

Some interesting stuff out in that race - Muter in the Barton, Corridon in the Lyncar ('79 ex-Villota?), Kenny Stone non-started a '74B', Travis in a '772P' (which I'm sure it wasn't) BDA, Robinson & Booth in B48s, Malkie in the ex-Jim C/Keke B45. Plus sundry others.

In the supporting 'International Atlantic Race', Bob Howlings has his scruffy B29, Tyrrell Arnold the 2nd Argo JM9, Jim Evans the Kim 792 (which Jim E owned), and Malcolm Hull in the Neil Fletcher Racing '782' - this one I've mentioned before, no idea what it was.

I can't recall who did the reports at those 9-10 May races but the descriptions of the cars could have come from entries placed before the Croft crash. Maybe Barton just drove the 77B at those two and the 'Hart' bit was lifted from the programme by the journalist?

Given how many cars and tubs he had, I'd be surprised if he'd borrowed yet another one.

How much work is it to stuff a Hart 420R into an Atlantic car? For an Iron Man that is, not for an ordinary mortal. I'd have no idea.

Allen

From what i recall andy ran the lotus 69 moonraker car, he also destroyed the chevron at croft and cameron binnie is a farmer from cornhill on tweed in the borders.
David muter bought the lotus and the barton jtb3(earlier known as the sana)
I also remember andy driving a march/bmw at croft which i think belonged to jimmy jack.

The Chevron he wrecked at Croft was between the Sana and the 77B I think. He wrecked it, a B40, on his first drive in it. I saw that in 1978 Autosports recently - I may be able to find it again.

Allen

Which B40 though Allen ?

I've just had a good look for a B40 thread and we don't seem to have had any meaningful conversation about them so I've started a new thread (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1555871#post1555871).

Allen

I've recently received a programme from an Atlantic meeting in 1979
at which Andy B appeared in the March 77B. The plate was noted:
77B-3 and the programme note 'ex Ian Scheckter?'
Scheckter had two 77Bs in 1977; getting a new car after badly damaging
the first early in the season. As he carried a 77B as a spare car through 1978
I'd suggest that Barton bought the remains of the first car.
This would be the car that Binnie uses in the early 80s

Chris

Chris that makes sense, you didn't note the no. of Andy's 782/79B at all did you. He got this in early 79, and I've read that it may have been ex-Hoffman/Project 4. If so I've surmised it would be 782-14, any thoughts on this ?

Chris

That's a result! Any more chassis numbers in that new collection of programs you got?

Allen

Andy Barton is retired now

Welcome Andy!

Very brave of you to pop in ;)

Tell us please, where did you get that 782 from?

Allen

I will get the old man to read the discussion and get back to you with the answer.
He doesn't do computers :rofl:

OK, who can quickly compile a list of questions for Andy Snr? We need to know where lots of cars came from and where lots of cars went to.

The 782 that he got early in 1979, was it built around an ex-Hoffman/P4 wreck? And of course the B35 and B40 he crashed in early 77 and 78 respectively?

Of which the B40 may have been the B35 rebuilt and updated...

I heard a story that Andy Barton went to the pub next door to the garage after work and had a bucket filled with beer and he and the lads sat in the corner dipping their mugs into the pale of ale

When they came south to race the GT AC3000 car u needed a translator to understand what they Geordie lads where saying
even watching repeats of " When the boat comes in" or "the likely lads" was not enough:laugh:

I believe the AC3000 802 car is still owned by cumming

David Smaill, from Glasgow bought the AC body from Ron Cumming.
My Dad got a call from Ron a few months ago wondering if we still owned the Stratos body and asked if David still had the AC body. He said something about wanting to buy them back for ...maybe a new series?

Ron was really ousted out by the SMRC when he brought his Footwork to race in the Formula Libre.

So your saying the ac body was sold off the march as was the silver startos march 832 car body?
i know Ron has the cars still
but i thought he raced the stratos in Mondello recently

Ron was not ousted from SMRC because he had the footwork-
he left scotland for "other" reasons !!!!!!:weasel: :troll:

He did stop racing at Knockhill before he left Scotland because they kept on banning him coz they didnt like him hammering everyone else.

I have nothing against Ron, I like the guy!

We bought just the black "Custom Furniture" Stratos from Ron in 94' while he ran his March as an F2 car and his Footwork. We put a Tiga Sports 2000 under it,then in 01 or 02 we sold the entire package to Adrian Hamilton in Edinburgh.

He was going to turn the Tiga back into a S2000 car and sell the Stratos body onto David Smail and Eddie Beerman in Glasgow. Ron must've bought the Stratos body back off them!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/r_heinicke_carr/ron_cumming_car.jpg

Ron racing the Andy Barton AC 3000 with his March underneath quite recently in Ireland

We bought just the black "Custom Furniture" Stratos from Ron in 94' while he ran his March as an F2 car and his Footwork. We put a Tiga Sports 2000 under it,then in 01 or 02 we sold the entire package to Adrian Hamilton in Edinburgh. He had 2 March 832 cars 1 was with Mazda engine from down here ( now sold) he fitted M12 to it.
The other 832 car was under the stratos body as he now runs in Ireland- so did you buy the whole car or just the bodwork

I assume he still has the 802 Barton chassis- from what you say the AC3000 body was sold to a guy and never used

We just bought just the stratos body from Ron. He used to run the BMW engined F2 car underneath it.

This body:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/r_heinicke_carr/ron_cumming0001.jpg


David Smail ran the AC body with a completely different chassis with a Cosworth YB engine. It was ridiculously slow.

Well Gents it sure is nice to see the old man's AC is still doing the rounds, I'll post a pic of it at Brands when I get back from my current business trip.
He won at brands on his only outing, that was even after it was dunched in the door by a BMW.
What I can tell you about the Chevron B40 was that it was the B35 with a few bits B40 bits. Dad wanted to re-build it completely as a B40 after he crashed it but the B40 suspension etc. was not available to him at the time.
Dad hated the B35, said the handling was crap...that's why Chevron quickly brought out the B40.
Oh...and as regards the comment regarding mini's...posted about 2 years ago...it said dad was out for 2yrs after a huge crash...actually he was out for 2 weeks...he wasn't known as the irron man for nowt!
Also, for info, on some occasions..after a heavy drinking session, dad used to have one of his pit crew run out to the car on the starting grid with a bucket so he could pretend to barf in it....used to really un-nerve the opposition :rotate:

I also heard he had been in the army or rumour was french foreign legion:cool:
so how come Junior u didnt go racing?

Too young at the time...I do a bit of hillclimbing tho.

Ok, here is some feedback in order of the posting #’s, its not comprehensive but I can clarify on stuff after if needs be.
#3 Mackmot – Who is your dad, my dad isn’t sure who he is.
#5 The last mini, crashed at Croft took 6wks to rebuilt with new shell, suspension & all new F2 Cosworth SCA engine with mini gearbox!!! (Did anyone do this earlier I ask?)
The JTB was 4-5” longer as we fitted the dry sump oil tank between the rear of the tub and the front of the BDA engine. The tub was modified to accept a much larger fuel bag tank (a-la Mclaren).
The Lotus moonraker was bought / ran by Johnny Blades, 69/71/5 chassis, David Muter sold it to a hillclimber, Don Bewick. The BDA was replaced with a Ford twin-cam 1600.
The car is now perfectly restored complete with BDG and is raced in historic events by Simon Hadfield, see link below.
The March 72B was Geoff Frisswells Southern Organs Car, I don’t recall the chassis number but I had 2 further March 72/3/4/5 tubs rebuilt as stock items as the tubs were almost identical and accidents (about 3 a year) did happen. Updated bodywork came from March stores archives a year behind the F2 cars.
#15 rcarr, The AC – The AC was sold to Bill Paul of the Dumbuck Hotel, he raced it for about 2 years then sold it to Ron Cumming.
#26 Chris – ref the ex Scheckter 77B; in early 1977 I received a phone call from Robin Herd of March Engineering to test drive a works March at Silverstone. I think this was due to having won the BARC Formula Libre championship. This was a great introduction to the March factory & staff…so when Scheckter’s car became available I was able to purchase it, just as he stepped out of it! I don’t remember the chassis No. but what always stuck in my memory was that he had a sticker in the cockpit that read “roads, we don’t need no stinkin roads”. The tub was damaged during it’s life with me and was rebuilt before being sold.
The 782 car was again a direct result of the March contacts, each works F2 driver had 3 “cars” all paid for by their sponsors, one race car, a spare car and a spare tub with parts. I was able to purchase a year old unused tub and all the suspension frames & uprights bodywork etc. but it had no chassis number. I also bought a crashed tub without chassis number and front & rear bulkheads etc. to build a 3rd tub as ground effects etc. were in their infancy when these cars were introduced. We gleaned any info we could from the works and developed this knowledge ourselves to make the 782 perform as well as if not better than the 792 ground effects cars.
#33 Dan, ref the B35, It was totalled at Ingliston and was rebuilt into a new B35 tub from Chevron as there were too many detailed changes to the B40. It was dressed in B40 bodywork though. It was then totalled again at Croft. I sold it crashed without the engine to (I think) Brian Swales from the Thirsk area. I think he rebuilt it.
This car was the worst car that I ever had the displeasure of driving. I think it had the incorrect steering rack fitted as the bump steer could never be set perfectly. Chevron were going through a bad patch at the time and were not a lot of help. I still have the workshop spares manual for the car

The cars tended to evolve, where a B was involved in the description it invairably stood for "Barton" and was the same tub as the previous one only a little more developed, there was always at least one other tub in the background ready to be built if needed. Dad has a pic somewhere of 3 almost identical cars of dads on the garage forecourt when Cameron & David drove them.

Here are links to photos of some of his his cars:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/TheTeam.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/TheTeam.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorRacing.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorRacing.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorEarly1960s.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MorrisMinorEarly1960s.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MiniMarcos1966.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/MiniMarcos1966.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Mini-Inglistonlate1960s.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Mini-Inglistonlate1960s.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March782with792nose.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March782with792nose.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbs24/March75273Btubin1976byTonyTodd.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbs24/March75273Btubin1976byTonyTodd.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March79B782fromAutosportDec79.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March79B782fromAutosportDec79.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March73Bconvertedto74BFromChronical.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/March73Bconvertedto74BFromChronical.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69moonrakeratKnockhillJuly2006.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69moonrakeratKnockhillJuly2006.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Early782OurWingsSkirtsMarchonthegri.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Early782OurWingsSkirtsMarchonthegri.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69in1974ByTonyTodd.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/Lotus69in1974ByTonyTodd.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000beingswipedatBrands.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000beingswipedatBrands.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000Brands.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/AC3000Brands.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1981802WingsMarch.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1981802WingsMarch.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1974Lotus69.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/1974Lotus69.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/782WingsSkirts.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/782WingsSkirts.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarchbyBoothroyd.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarchbyBoothroyd.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/732BMarchex.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/732BMarchex.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarch.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/78279BWingsSkirtsMarch.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/77BWingswithoutgroundeffectsMarch.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/77BWingswithoutgroundeffectsMarch.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston2.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston2.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/8-5-77B35Ingliston.jpg)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/23-3-7977BexscheckterWingswithoutgr.jpg (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/dbsa24/23-3-7977BexscheckterWingswithoutgr.jpg)

I’ll put some more links on soon.

Great stuff Andy. Thanks for this.

Could I ask a couple more things:
1. Where did the Chevron come from originally? Any idea who'd raced it before?
2. What was the story on the Sana, later known as the Barton JTB3? Was that an unused tub and parts or had it raced before?

Thanks

Allen

Superb stuff. I missed very few meetings at ingliston 75-84 as a kid. Didn't see the B35 accident & didn't realise it was so big - Andy, did your dad lose it on the way into Arena or did something break?
Andy Barton was always the guy to plug for against the people with bigger cheque books such as Iain Mclaren & Norman Dickson
What happened to Cameron Binnie?

Nothing broke on the B35 it was just a poor handling car :rotate:
Ref. the earlier questions on the Sana...I'll get back to you next week when dad returns from Spain (Menorca not Mallorca)
Ta!
Andy Jnr

Andy my dad is Andy Mackie, he was just a young lad when he hung out with your dad. He went on to have a pretty successful career in motorsport. Take a look at www.mackiemotorsport.com

Thanks for the pictures i'll show them to my dad next week.

Allen,
The Sana was designed and built by John Thompson of TC Prototypes in Wellingborough. John used to build the ATS F1 and Mclaren cars, he also rebuilt many of dads crashed March tubs for him.
The Sana was bought from John, we don't think anyone raced it other than dad.
The B35 was bought from Chevron at the time when Ricardo Patrese and Keke Rosberg were racing for them...it was definately not one of their cars though, it belonged to one of their other drivers of the time.
Dad stated that although he hated the B35, Patrese was getting good results with one and so dad insists the steering rack was not the same on his.
I'll put some more photos online when I have the chance.
Any other questions gents?:)

Andy (Junior?), I think the Sana HAD been used before your Dad got it in mid-1977. There were 2 built for the 76 season for Graham Eden Racing, designed by Gordon Fowell IIRC.

Cyd Williams used 1 in Indylantic that year before falling out with Eden. The drive was then taken over by Terry Perkins, brother of Larry. The 2nd car was built as an F3, and very occasionally used as such by Terry.

The 1st car remained as an Atlantic and was burnt out in the fire that engulfed Eden's workshop in early 1977. The 2nd car was sold, and built into an Atlantic, to Cal Withers Team in mid-late 76, and driven by Cyd Williams and later David Winstanley that year. Its this car, I think, which your Dad bought.

He entered it initally as a Sana, and later as the Barton, from mid-77, until mid-78 I think, when he got the ex-Ian S March 77B. The Barton then passed to David Muter, who I guess was a mate/colleague of your Dad's.

I've no idea why the cars were originally called 'Sanas', equally why the car was later designated "JTB3"???

Dan

I'm not sure it was the same car, which is why I asked the question. Reporting on Andy's first outing in the Sana, at Croft on 10 July 1977, Motoring News (21 Jul 1977 p6) says the car had been "built in a rush from a box of bits labelled 'Sana' - the car having F2 rear suspension and F3 front". The week before this race, Motoring News (7 Jul 1977 p16) noted that Barton had "acquired an old Sana F2/Atlantic chassis for the rest of the racing season".

As Andy Jr says the car came from John Thompson, I'm wondering if this was a third Sana, which had not previously been built up.

It does leave the question of what happened to Withers car. I can't recall seeing any mention of any other Sana after 1976.

Allen

Agreed on no other sightings of the 'Blue' Sana after 76 Allen, I just assumed they must be 1 and the same car. The 1st MN report seems to imply it was the Withers car, esp given its F2/F3 suspension bits. I can't believe Eden would have bought/built 3 of them would he ??

somewhere in the dim n dark past the name Sana was mumbled by the good and late Roger Hurst Esquire
whether he had some parts or sold acar or chassis i cannot advise as i didnt get the car into the discussion more a passing comment by Roger whilst discussing other matters

dont read to much into it but i thought i should mention it in case a bell rings with you guys

Agreed on no other sightings of the 'Blue' Sana after 76 Allen, I just assumed they must be 1 and the same car. The 1st MN report seems to imply it was the Withers car, esp given its F2/F3 suspension bits. I can't believe Eden would have bought/built 3 of them would he ??Thompson built them so it's distinctly possible that he had the makings of a third car. What MN describe as a box of Sana bits might tie in with whatever Thompson had left.

Maybe.

Hi Andy i just found this site after putting in your dads name into googgle. I used to follow your dad all over the place when i was a kid, i even had a trip to meet him at his garage in Newburn for a present on my 12th birthday,could you give him my name and see if he remembers me. I live in Nortallerton and i was on a night out in Newcastle and i bumped in to Ernie who used to work for your dad and we had a good laugh about the old racing days

Hi Andy Barton Junior, I think. Tell the old man I was asking after him. He bought my F.Atlantic 73B rolling chassis, I always remember what an ace Dad you have!

I was racing at Ingliston in 1975, in my Clubmans car, and I had a punctured float in one of the carbs. I spent lap after lap chasing another car but just couldnt get past as on all the right hand bends the car was flooding and misfiring. My only real chance was a left hander before entering the Stadium, but he kept looking in his mirror and blocking me. In the end I caught him napping, and as he realised he tried to shut the door on me. Of course the inevitable happened and I basically "T" boned him. We ended up with him sideways on and me in his side. I promptly stuck my car in reverse, pulled back, and then shot off and won the race!

His helpers went absolutely mad at me, "......can't you stand to lose a race" etc, etc. I was actually quite embarrassed, I hadn't meant it to happen like that, but in my defence said something along the lines that he had seen me in his mirrors enough to block me, it's a pity he didn't see me in his mirrors when I was half past him! Anyhow it wasn't very nice, untill I found out that your old man Andy, who was in the Grandstand, had been absolutely ecstatic when I did it, leapt up cheering "Good old Frizzie" or something, I think he thought I did it on pupose and really appreciated it!

I will say this now, I really appreciated Andy's support, the spectators were on my side too, as your old man was so popular!

Happy Days, Keep well. Tell him to look at my "Driver File", see what I am up to these days, it'll give him a laugh. Jeremy Shaw (Autosport reporter of our days, lives in US of A now said, and I quote "That is a great photo! And a good example for "spot the loonie!" I can't believe you do that! "

All the best Andy,

Cheers,

Geoff Friswell.

Andy (Junior?), I think the Sana HAD been used before your Dad got it in mid-1977. There were 2 built for the 76 season for Graham Eden Racing, designed by Gordon Fowell IIRC.

Cyd Williams used 1 in Indylantic that year before falling out with Eden. The drive was then taken over by Terry Perkins, brother of Larry. The 2nd car was built as an F3, and very occasionally used as such by Terry.

The 1st car remained as an Atlantic and was burnt out in the fire that engulfed Eden's workshop in early 1977. The 2nd car was sold, and built into an Atlantic, to Cal Withers Team in mid-late 76, and driven by Cyd Williams and later David Winstanley that year. Its this car, I think, which your Dad bought.

He entered it initally as a Sana, and later as the Barton, from mid-77, until mid-78 I think, when he got the ex-Ian S March 77B. The Barton then passed to David Muter, who I guess was a mate/colleague of your Dad's.

I've no idea why the cars were originally called 'Sanas', equally why the car was later designated "JTB3"???

Re. Davy Muter - isn't he the one on the far right on the team photo in the earlier post?

Mackmot, do you or your Dad know where the Ironman got a couple of those cars from. The Chevron B35 he had in early 77, but not for long I think, then the 782/79B he had from mid-79 to 1981 or so. Both are a bit of a mystery to us 'tub no crunchers' !

Also did Dave Muter buy Andy's cars from him, or borrow/hire them when Andy got a newer one.

I also remember him as a tough looking chap, very short hair for the time, a bid Squaddie-like even. I was always a bit wary of approaching him, I was only 14 or so at the time! Very goood driver though as I remember, pretty much unbeatable in Croft/Ingliston Libres, unless someone like Crawford went up there, or Dickson in a bigger car. He also went very well when he ventured south to Mallory/Donington, even Silverstone occasionally.

Stories like yours re his elbow, or the Beetle driveshaft borrowing are great, just what makes 10/10ths so brilliant. Any more like that, about Andy or anyone else ???

Just rereading this thread I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Andy's seat in the Morris Minor collapsing as he braked at the end of the long straight at Rufforth. Although it was my local circuit I wasn't there on that day but I understand the car went a very long distance with Andy scrambling around on the floor!

Another time at Croft he was having the usual furious dice with Sedric bell and another car, probably Alex Clacher's Imp and coming out of the chicane there was no room for three cars wide up the pit straight and one of them, Sedric I think, had to drive straight up the pit road at unabated speed then back on to the circuit after the pits. Highly dangerous, but amusing at the time.

I think he also raced a Mini Marcos at some stage.

Hi, defiantely not Davey Muter in the team photo.
Dad did drive a Sana...dunno who it was did the pit lane thing...but do remember hearing about it...will find out for you
Ta! AB Jnr

As posted elsewhere, I had a fascinating chat with Warren Booth last Friday. He remembers Andy being very quick, and one particular race at Croft. Warren was in his B42, Andy his FAt March, Warren won, though had Andy literally 'bashing' his gearbox throughout the race tryong to get past!

Warren also recalled hiring the Barton/Sana from Andy for a race. He'd sold the Scott and before he bought the B42, he was contracted to do a race by Crown, so needed a suitable car. Neither I no he could remember how he did in it.

Dear Andy/Jnr,
I have recently joined the forum on the 772 p/ 782 thread.
I believe I may have your original March 782 that was bought/built from the March works spare tub and works factory parts.
I have posted photos of the car on the 772p thread and would appreciate if you could have a look and reply as I obviously would dearly like to track the history of the car with the end result of hopefully having a legitimate chassis number(as it was a works tub).
Many thanks
Roy