NWFF entry fees

Judging by the front cover of Mo News today it appears the entries will have to go up again.

Thanks JP your really thinking of the sport arn't you and why such a hike only for Oulton.:banghead:

Maybe voting with your feet is the only option. How do entries compare at Castle Combe or closer at Donnington ?
What always get my goat is that you pay the same entry fee irrespective of how many entrants there are. If there is a race on the same day as the FF1600 that only has 10 cars racing why should the FF1600 racers who have a full grid have to pay the same.
Could not a deal be done on the basis of a race costing X and each racer paying a proportion of that depending on the number of entries. Surely with the use of credit cards this could be done.

Originally posted by jminsh
Judging by the front cover of Mo News today it appears the entries will have to go up again.

On page two they say that BRSCC will try not to pass the increment on to competitors via entry fees. £2,000 is a lot of money to find from nowhere, though! :(

Originally posted by kickstart
If there is a race on the same day as the FF1600 that only has 10 cars racing why should the FF1600 racers who have a full grid have to pay the same.

MN, quoting Grant Stewart, BRSCC Chief Executive: 'If a championship turns up with 10 cars, it can't expect a race of its own'.

Thanks for that info Dave Brand, what is the limit for numbers of cars before the powers that be force the series to race with others. I say that because I have lost count of the number of races I have watched over the last few years when the actual numbers taking part have been 10 - 14. Personally I am all for racing with a full compliment of competitors, but given that the MSA have allowed formula Women a championship with about 16 competitors (before anyone drops out) and also diluted junior racing with Formula BMW it would seem that there are different rules for different people. If the F3000 race is down to 10 - 12 competitors when the circus arrives in the UK it is a very amusing thought to consider that they would be tagged onto the local FF1600 race.LOL

Can the BRSCC not run a Penalty system. If your race fails to make a certain number on the grid at a given meeting, then increase the price for the next meeting. It sounds harsh, but how many times have we had excellent grids and end up paying more than others. I am not talking individually, but look at it this way.

Example...1 Race Meeting
x24 Post '86 and x12 Pre '87 @ £165 per car = £5940 in entries.

T-Cars at Oulton last year....
x7 cars @ £350 per car = £2450

Now, this is a rough idea of the figures. For their £350, they got extra practice and a longer rac distance of which, I think 4 or 5 cars finished. No wonder people went to check out the Coffee in the Restaurant when they were on. As a whole, we are putting a lot of money the way of the club and circuit and as such, are not receiving the rightful status of the Premier Championship for the NW centre. I'm not singleing anyone in particular out for blame, but something should be done between the circuit and the club.....

Part of it does come back to the fact that the BRSCC doesn't seem to realise what a rough diamond it has on it's hands. A bit of spit and polish here and there, at least a bit of publicity and who knows where it can go. You only have to look at the number of people that want to come and race in this championship to see it's popularity. As word spreads through the racing drivers, so it will spread through the race fans and then the media.

Hopefully, JP will see what's going on and try to get people through the door, but come on BRSCC, take note of what you have. I know I'm biased, but 7 T-Cars or 50 or so Formula Fords????????

Again, nothing in the BRN for the North West Centre and it hasn't exactly been a quite winter with all the car and driver changes.

I just wonder where all the extra cars/races will come from to spread the extra costs? If this doesn't happen and leads to higher entry fees we may well see smaller grids and not bigger ones?

Chris has some sound and obvious financial points, the FF1600 comunity is paying more and on a regular bassis, we must also be aware that the pre and post grids do vary in numbers and be prepared to run one race when this happens to keep the argument strong. Last season the post grid had a strong case the pre grid was at times as small as a T car race, and you could argue why should i pay the same to run in post as in pre!, at the moment they are two races in their own right - maybe that needs to change - can you imagine any club turning down 40 plus entries for one meeting?

All things being well, we should have some monster grids this year. In both classes if all the pre-season talk is to be believed. We need to get more cars to the Anglesey meetings though......

The Micks are coming....

How much are testing fees at Oulton this year?

Full day is £190 with 1/2 a day £130

Which means about 8 laps for the full day if you share with either ARP F3 orZips!!!!

Thanks RR I thought it would have been more this year.

Rather than a race for pre and post, how about two heats and a final with two clasess, three racs for the spectators too.

I think the people who like to meddle with class structures would not like any thing so simple and efficant as that.

It would be great for class A & B but not so good for the older cars.

The more track time will also mean more ££££ to enter and a lot of drivers can only just cover the high costs as they are.

I think it should cost the same plus they do not have to buy 20 trophys per meeting

Just going back to the testing mentioned briefly above - Phoned yesterday to be told that there is no testing at Oulton until April !!!!!!!!!!!!!

What on earth is that all about - It means that I have to trek over to Donnington and pay their exhorbitant testing fee to shake down the car. At least I would if their Website was up and I could find out when testing was available.....

RR77's right, it disadvantages the older (cheaper) cars. The extra costs are in tyres, engines and -- potentially, damage.

There is a Black dog day at the end of March At Oulton

Originally posted by goforit500
Just going back to the testing mentioned briefly above - Phoned yesterday to be told that there is no testing at Oulton until April !!!!!!!!!!!!!

What on earth is that all about - It means that I have to trek over to Donnington and pay their exhorbitant testing fee to shake down the car. At least I would if their Website was up and I could find out when testing was available.....

Try Blackdog days @ OP & Anglesey.

Has been mentioned in NW ff1600 threads a lot !!! :banghead:

Goforit, Anglesey is March 13th and Oulton is March 26th. Normally FF only (or similar speed cars) Have a word with Huw though as I'm sure he will help you.

Originally posted by Barny
Rather than a race for pre and post, how about two heats and a final with two clasess, three racs for the spectators too. Barny, Theoretically a good idea, but the Brands Festival showed that two heats and a final don't work with multi class grids. The older cars - by and large - wouldn't be in the ball park. Creating artificial final grid spots for the older cars leads to a mixed up grid with the potential for accidents [Brands again]

Going back to Walshy's earlier post.
Say the total cost of running an Oulton clubbie works out at £24k [which will not be too wide of the mark] With an 8 race card that is £3k per race to be found.
Take an almost full grid of 25 [not 26] to help the maths. That is £120 per driver.
Now take it down the grid sizes.
10 cars = £3k divided = £300
15 cars = £3k divided = £200
20 cars = £3k divided = £150

OK the more time a class 'demands' the more their %age of the £24k becomes.

I believe classes in Europe have to buy their slots at the meeting and their entry fees are basically calculated as above.

Is this the way to go?

Discuss?

Diz, I agree with your suggestion wholeheartedly - it is the only fair way.

Diz the cost of the circuit (OP) is £12k a day with Brands Hatch being £16k a day

Works great for FF1600 at Oulton Diz but I would not like to pay the T Car bill for 3 races with 5 cars!!! he he

Originally posted by Redracer77
Diz the cost of the circuit (OP) is £12k a day with Brands Hatch being £16k a day Chris, Add in MST [not cheap] plus all the other costs, insurances etc. and I believe the pre 2004 MSV increase figure was £23k to break even, something that wasn't always achieved.

So will it be a roll over to this year LOL.

okay Diz you got me. Circuit fees are stll far too high.......

£16,000 for BH indy.........silly money

It is scandalous. I mean, how do they come to that sort of figure. They keep the gate revenue. The club pay for time keepers, scrutineers, Clerk of the course etc.

Again it's the old arguement. Cheaper circuit hire means cheaper racing means more cars on track means better spectacle for punters mean more punters through the gates means better revenue for the circuit. It's just a case of who is going to make the first move.

How was it run say 20 years ago,What is so different than today?

at the end of the day Chris they are not bothered about gate money as they get what they want from the BRSCC anyway.....

I have a feeling that JP taking over will be a nightmare.......

Then why do we pay £165 to race at Anglesey? As the cost of the circuit must be MUCH less than Oulton Park?????????

You definitely get more for your money at Anglesey.....

I agree. JP getting the Brands Circuits will be like the BRDC running Silverstone. Backs against the wall. No financial help from anywhere else, so charge the racers and I don't think he will have any scruples in charging us what it takes........

I propose we move to CROFT............LOL

Hutch would love that!!!!

It can't cost more than £5 - £6 k to hire Anglesey so why can't the entry fees be in line with the testing fees? We should have double headers for £165

Your right ...but someone must be lining there pockets of us.

Don't forget they have a new circuit to build!!!!!

But they have that money or so Im told!

Originally posted by Walshy
Don't forget they have a new circuit to build!!!!! Take a look at www.etracksonline.co.uk (http://) to see what it looks like. From the current start, turn left where the assembly area is now and follow the map. The first hairpin is banked.

It looks good,When should it be finished Diz?

big chunk must be insurance

I wish they would keep school corner......

I know 2 people who may be happy it will be going - MikeM and Bruce!!

Chris LOL, actually I really enjoy the corner - but without anyone too close!!

The club pay for time keepers, scrutineers, Clerk of the course etc.

since when did the clerks get paid walshy. news to me

This subject came up at the BARC Drivers rep meeting during the winter and I must admit I agreed with you guys until BARC replied saying that doing as you have suggested would spell instant death for the formulas which may only be on temporary hard times. When I thought back over the years I can remember no-end of formulas which have been down to single figures which now thrive, notably Mono, URS FF2000 and BARC Renault. So, I had to admit that a certain amount of tolerance is appropriate, particularily when you bear in mind that some of us wouldn't have the formulas we currently race in if such action had been taken in the past.

Bob, you're right on that one! People need to take a closer look at the potential before they "kill" small entry series.

Fair enough, Bob and MikeM, but I can think of no reason why financially hard pressed racers running in capacity races should have to underwrite those running in less popular series.
That leads me to the conclusion that without some sort of financial assistance the less popular series with say less than 10 competitors would not continue if they had to pay their equitable share - surely that would mean entry fees of maybe £400 for a single header race in an unpopular series.
I don't wish to "kill" anyones fun but from a racing point of view it is fairly unsatisfying having a grid of maybe 10 - 14 racers - would it not be better to amalgamate these series with suitable stable mates to produce a decent race - T cars could join in with BTCC - LOL

Yes, to a degree and depending how low the numbers were. Consistently below 10's likely to be on life support?

Originally posted by brsccnw
since when did the clerks get paid walshy. news to me

Forgive me BRSCCNW, but I thought the Clerk of the Course was on a wedge being an official etc???

Originally posted by Bob Pearson
This subject came up at the BARC Drivers rep meeting during the winter and I must admit I agreed with you guys until BARC replied saying that doing as you have suggested would spell instant death for the formulas which may only be on temporary hard times. When I thought back over the years I can remember no-end of formulas which have been down to single figures which now thrive, notably Mono, URS FF2000 and BARC Renault. So, I had to admit that a certain amount of tolerance is appropriate, particularily when you bear in mind that some of us wouldn't have the formulas we currently race in if such action had been taken in the past.

I don't think racers in well supported championships should be expected to subsidise those who are not. NWFF expects to have their races amalgamated if there aren't enough entries. Why should it be any different for other classes of similarly powered cars.
Anyway who decides whether a class is dead in the water or just undergoing a temporary lull?

For the job they do Clerks should be well paid.

Originally posted by StephenRae
I don't think racers in well supported championships should be expected to subsidise those who are not.

then you suffer from a downward spiral, small numbers of unsubsideised entrys in a class mean high entry fees for the drivers, so some drivers stop competing in that championship beacuse of the costs, this means increasing entry fees again, loosing more driver until bang, no entrys and no class....

2004 Race Entry pack now available on brscc.co.uk (http://brscc.co.uk) Good news is entry fees are pegged at 2003 price of £165. The Anglesey double headers are still £250

Is the entry pack sent out or do we have to order it?

It is downloadable Alan, as above. From the home page, go to championships, then NW FF1600, then click on the download

TA.