FF1600 on TV

How is it that Indoor bowling gets very good Tv coverage and yet the likes of 30 FF1600 chariot racers are doomed to five or six lines in Autosport or MN.
I surpose bowling is edge of your seat stuff.

i had to replace my trousers when he nearly nocked the jack out, got so over excited i did.

Over and over and over and over.
We keep having this one. Maybe the powers that be in the cut and thrust world of the Crown Green Bowler have more passion about their sport.

So what magic do they posses all the top stars are well into their 90s......

Maybe they live in Southport with all those young scouse girls without Beards!!!!!

Beards...Beards...I see Manchester girls are all Muslims lol

Bed Time I think. See you tomorrow..........

Thats enough entertainment for you boys tune in tomorrow?

Its because various powers that be, want to control TV coverage within motorsport and charge way beyond reasonable amounts for film rights, permission etc.

Eg, in the past Brands wanted 25k to let you film a weekends racing (not even all the races, only one series/championship). Maybe this will change under new management, but I wont hold my breath.

and the other cost issue is logistics. How many cameras (and camera operators) does it take to cover an entire circuit when compared to the number required to cover the indoor bowling green?
It's a shame, but if enough people watch bowling to cover the cost, why not carry on with it?

Would be interesting (from a marketing point of view) to get a video made about FF1600... I know someone who could do a good professional job as well...

As we are starved of FF1600 on TV these days, luckily I managed to tape loads of the old BBC Grandstand coverage from the 80s at the time. ( Need the old reference for my work). I also have a few 80s Festivals recorded.
Replayed a great old FF race not long ago from '86 of Damon Hill, Johnny Herbert and Mark Blundell battling on the Silverstone GP circuit, until Damon lost it at club, Johnny and another car piled into him and Mark went on to win! Murray and Tiff provided the commentary.
Amazingly, the next race on my tape was a clubbie Fiesta race from Thruxton, Murray commentating again with James Hunt alongside him! I had forgotten that they were not just a GP commentating duo.

Ian S how much would a vidio cost of a meeting

Evening all.

Andy K. Would you be able to copy the video you have. It sounds brilliant. i would buy a copy off you........

Chris you are not a Policeman are you.....I would like a copy of that my self it sounds good I am looking for someone to do some vidios for me of our championship I had some done when Oulton when we parked on mud very nostalgic thats when King Mike still raced.

Well watch this space. I will have my Videos to DVD services up and running soon....

I was thinking of a video about FF1600 which could be used for marketing or sponsorship purposes rather than videoing much race action as such. If anyone is interested in pursuing this I will do some research...

Then let us know please Ian

The problem is that other than F1, no motorsport is going to get on TV unless the championship organisers PAY for the coverage. That's why FF1600 gets no coverage.

AMG would do videos of Oulton if we wanted. This was looked at before (not sure if with AMG) and the problem was getting enough people to buy to cover the cost. I can get a budget price if you want?

FF1600 gets no coverage because it's too far down the motorsport pile. On the profile scale of motorsport it's got F1, Champ Cars, Touring Cars, F3, Clios, FRenault, FFord, Porsches, etc. all above it.

It's motor racing's equivalent of Sunday League football. Why would any TV company want to broadcast that?

I think your comment is wrong Paul.

A good FF1600 race with a full grid is an amazing spectacle with overtaking and lots of it, some on the track and some on the grass. I have been watching and occasionally taking part in motoracing for nearly 25 years and in my book nothing beats a closely fought ff1600 race.

I agree with you Kickstart...I look forward to watching the FF1600 races, I know of no other formula with as much action. I believe the TV boy's are missing out on a feast of thrills and spills. Perhaps someone like Diz could approach a TV company like Men and Motors with a view to them following a complete season (Including behind the scenes of formula ford) I am sure this would generate a new and rightful interest in our fantastic formula.

FF1600 must be at the top of the pile for action and amusment in watching F1 Champ things and those others are ok for anoracks but to those that know! FF1600 is were its at....well so I think.

The main problem is the tv rights seem to belong to the circuit owners and not the racers.As for Paul Raynor saying about the pecking order of motorsport they all make the mistake of thinking richest is best.

having more attractive girls in the nip at ff1600 meetings would increase ratings, i consider that as permium importance and i hope the powers that be will take my comment on board and i expect atleast 7 page three models at each event this year.... :o

Originally posted by heel'n'toe-no
Perhaps someone like Diz could approach a TV company like Men and Motors with a view to them following a complete season (Including behind the scenes of formula ford) I am sure this would generate a new and rightful interest in our fantastic formula.
I have just signed a contract with Granada Television. It is a hell of a good deal. The downside is that if I fall behind with the payments, they come and repossess the set
*Gets coat* :bag:

:laugh:


glad its not my kit arnt you diz :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sorry Jamie, you've lost me

the set being "every bugger elses stuff" so as i was saying glad i dont own any of the stuff they will reposes, im worthless......

Originally posted by Big AL 50
As for Paul Raynor saying about the pecking order of motorsport they all make the mistake of thinking richest is best.
But that's just the way it is. TV companies look at sports and think what people want - the pinnacle of the sport will be the most popular, even if it's not the most exciting. My point about Sunday League Football was that basically, compared to the world cup, where the "best" players in the world resort to diving and acting in pain in order to get a free kick or penalty, Sunday League could be the most exciting game in the world, with everyone being very nice and sporting, but would people rather watch a bunch of men who are accountants and businessmen through the week, or a bunch of professional athletes with silly haircuts at the pinnacle of the sport?

If you really want to get club racing on TV, I think you should step back and look at it from that point of view - how would you pitch to get non-professional football on TV? If you can think of a way, apply that to motor racing.

Oh, and another thing that doesn't appeal to TV - you don't crash enough. People enjoy crashes, and whether we like it or not, that's why a lot of people like watching youngsters in FRenault or FFord Zetec. Plus glamour sells. Club racing's great - you can go around and meet all the drivers, talk to them, and realise that they're real people. But the public don't want to watch real people on TV. They want heroes. People who are so exclusive that they feel honoured to have 20 seconds with them to get their name scribbled on a bit of paper. That's the world we live in.

I think thats just the world you live in, Just look at the festival, FF1800 just fall all over each other but it is still like watching paint dry..........FF1600 are still the ones to watch!

Your dead on with that Blue Nose. Look how many restarts we had at Brands last October at the festival. Before the final restart the Clerk of the course even called a meeting on the reformed grid.....You never get that sort of drama in Formula 1. Instead you get to see the drivers on a bloody truck going round the circuit before disappearing in to their airconditioned loo's for a pre race pee.
Before any of you start defending F1 drivers, I know lots of them have come through the ranks and are genuinely good drivers. I am not questioning their talent, this is a rant about the spectacle of the sport of motor racing. I just find that FF1600 is far more exciting than any other formula.
I watched many rounds of the FRenault season last year and the racing is not a patch on the FF1600's. I think there is too much money's worth of car in the formula for them to really take chances and coupled with the fact that the sponsorship money barely covers the cost of the season, you can't crash those things too many times before you simply run out of dosh. Unless your loaded which not many of the drivers are.....of course there are exceptions but not enough. FF1600 rules. If anyone disagree's - OUTSIDE IN THE PLAYGROUND AFTER SCHOOL!!!!!!.

That sum motor racing up in my mind the more money put in..it turns into a poor spectacal of what it should be, never mind there will always be FF1600.

One thing that I think is popular about F1, about junior formulas, etc. is that the drivers are driving with a clear passionate aim - they have to win. They have to win if they want to keep their job, they have to win if they want to move up the ladder and get to their dream of F1. They want to win at almost any cost, they're not just there to have fun.

About the crash thing - the FF1600 Festival had more because the stakes were higher. It was the end of the season and everyone really wanted to do well in that race. I'm not saying that FF1600 isn't exciting and that the racing isn't great - it is - I'm just saying it's not appealing to enough people to warrant TV coverage.

Yeah ok paul but it's still the circuits that own the rights.Diz would start off letting them show it for peanuts but Silverstone and Donington want big profits.
Let the drivers have more of a say in the price of their skills.

Originally posted by Big AL 50
Yeah ok paul but it's still the circuits that own the rights.Diz would start off letting them show it for peanuts but Silverstone and Donington want big profits.
Let the drivers have more of a say in the price of their skills. Thanks Al for appointing me FF1600 TV negotiator. Definitely not peanuts, cakes maybe :laugh:
Who are "letting them show it for peanuts"?

If you mean the TV companies, let them have it for free. If they want paying, stuff them.

If you mean the circuits, it would seem to make sense for them to allow filming for free.
Coverage of their venues showcasing their product to a TV audience and it not costing them a penny is surely good business sense, but what do I know about business sense? Viewers becoming new customers and spending on admission, catering etc is bunce income and they could well return again and again.
Demanding a high fee for the rights to film means the TV people won't want to film and smacks of greed.

I don't think the drivers, or championships should get - or seek - any direct financial reward. It should be reward enough to be 'on the box'. If they already have a sponsor, that sponsor will be happier with the TV exposure. Also, racing in a televised series would theoretically make it easier to gain your first, or additional sponsorship. A win, win situation in my view.

Anybody got Bernie's number? I might ask him for advice.
diz

Diz you should be the new FF1600 Bernie Since you have now been appointed the tv negotiator how about getting us on Men and motors after 11pm UCLAN did it what do you say?

Originally posted by heel'n'toe-no
I agree with you Kickstart...I look forward to watching the FF1600 races, I know of no other formula with as much action. I believe the TV boy's are missing out on a feast of thrills and spills. Perhaps someone like Diz could approach a TV company like Men and Motors with a view to them following a complete season (Including behind the scenes of formula ford) I am sure this would generate a new and rightful interest in our fantastic formula.

First point I'd like to clarify: Usually the TV rights to an event are held by the organising club, not the circuit.

...In fact I was trying to think of an exception, but I can't.

Second point: Making TV is expensive. If you go much below the very top levels of motorsport, you are not going to get ANY money at all out of a broadcaster. Certainly you are never going to get enough money to cover the production costs.

Most motorsport on TV is sponsor-funded. Manufacturer-supported championships, such as Formula Renault, have coverage paid for by manufacturers.

You want to film a race? You need cameras. How many depends on the circuit, below is a list of circuits, with two numbers by each. First number is the absolute minmum number of cameras you can use to cover that circuit. Second number is the ideal number:
Brands Indy 5 - 9
Brands GP 13 - 18
Castle Combe 7 - 13
Croft 7 - 13
Donington Park National 8 - 14
Oulton Park Island 8 - 14
Rockingham (any version) 6 - 13
Silverstone National 7 - 11
Silverstone Inter 10 - 14
Silverstone GP 18 - 25
Snetterton 7 - 13
Thruxton 7 - 11

Price varies according to quality. The lowest quality camera acceptable for broadcast use, plus operator, will cost you £300. Tapes for these cameras (which last an hour each) cost £4 each if you buy in bulk.

So to film a day of motor racing at a typical circuit is going to cost about £2500.

I'm assuming there are eight races in that day, and you are making a thirty minute programme on each one. (This means you are saving money through economies of scale)

Editing, and other post-production, will cost another £8 - 10,000. A decent commentator will be able to get through four programmes in a day, so you need two days. Minimum £1,000. Probably nearer double that.

So, you've spent around £12,000, and two weeks of your time. You have eight programmes, of which a broadcaster might want to show one or two of them (but it would have cost you nearly as much to only make one or two) if you let them have them for free.

Still want to do this?

Originally posted by sceptic
First point I'd like to clarify: Usually the TV rights to an event are held by the organising club, not the circuit.
Still want to do this? Are you sure on your first point?
I'm sure all FF1600 drivers would like TV coverage - as would all other classes in club racing. As to 'still wanting to do this', I don't think any of us really believe it would ever happen. We are just airing our views on a forum

Richard Hay would do a race meeting for £3k and would have it put on World Motorsport at the same time..... would be good for the festival

We would need 30 drivers to put up £100 each....I would do it 29 drivers to go.

Originally posted by diz
Are you sure on your first point?


Yes.
That way with a championship which runs at several different circuits, you don't end up with a situation where some rounds get coverage and some don't, based on the whim of the circuit management.

Of course there are places/organisations, like Thruxton & BARC, where it's the same people you would be dealing with anyway.

But to take F Ford Zetec as an example (I'm using it because it is a championship which gets regular TV coverage)
the rights are owned by the BRSCC.

They will get one company to film all their races. And they will usually use the same company that is filming other race series at the same venue on the same day, even if they are run by a different club.

So this year, Hay Fisher are filming the British F3 championship, so it would be logical for them also to film F Ford, and the VW Polo Cup and Zip Formula etc., and therefore that is who the BRSCC will probably get to do it.

At the same time, Formula BMW is going to be appearing on the same package as the BTCC, so it would make sense for them to get Granada to film it.

Occasionally, though less often these days than used to happen, you will get meetings where two championships, which for the rest of the season have different companies filming them, come together.

For example:
A couple of years ago, the Caterhams (Hay Fisher) supported the BTCC (Granada) at Thruxton. Rather than have two sets of cameras, one of which would only be used for one race, Hay Fisher asked Granada to film the race for them.

Similarly at Donington last year, F3 (then BHP) supported BTCC (still Granada) and BHP asked Granada to film the race for them.

At last year's Ford Festival, both Hay Fisher and Granada were filming. Because of other events the same weekend, neither had the resources to cover it properly on their own but they agreed not to duplicate each other and pooled the footage.

And when the Clio Cup (Granada) supported F3 (BHP) at Snetterton last year, Granada got Hay Fisher to film it.
OK, so I don't understand that one, but it shows that the three main companies seem to have a good relationship with each other.

I have an in house film crew that could do the filming, editing and interviews etc but we don't have any experiance with getting it shown on sky?? would even cost a little less than £3k as well

Speak to Andrew Marriott at Sky Sports - he's the executive producer of Motorsport and the person to talk to if you want something on World Motorsport.

Bear in mind though that Sky have very high technical/quality specifications (second only to ITV in the UK).

They will certainly want any material delivered in duplex on digibeta tape, and will want evidence that it has passed a technical preview, and that it complies with the relevant OfCom codes...or they'll charge you for carrying out those checks themselves (and probably charge you again for any remedial work they have to carry out).

don't worry Sceptic we are a design and production agency and do a number of TV adverts etc

diz gets his coat and bows out due to an obvious lack of any TV knowledge - other than being a dab hand with the remote.

This idea sounds like it might actually happen if someone is prepared to take ownership of the project.
Redracer77 could that someone be you? I am sure your costs could be shared by the competitors in the NW FF1600 championship which I think you are also one of.
I can't help thinking that a professionally put together programme coupled with the action in FF1600 would turn a few heads in TV land and who knows, maybe SKY Motors will take a chance and start filming events.
It only needs a spark in the right place and this may well be a go-er.
Come on you lot......what do you think? Fancy watching yourselves racing on TV?
If Redracer77 has the technical know how, what about a big push to get FF1600 TV coverage.

The other spin offs are obvious....

1)Increasing the attendances at the circuits because of the TV interest. (This would please the circuit owners and the clubs)

2) Sponsorship for the cars/drivers.....we could have our seasons paid for with sponsorship....NICE!

3) New up and coming talent could be headhunted by teams wishing to take a chance on them....who knows this could produce the next British F1 world champion....It used to and could well do again.

The only downside is that if TV coverage were to happen and the money come back in to the sport then the circuits would put up our fee's in line with the money coming in. This is why it would be crucial to tie the circuits in at the embrionic stage and get a written agreement between the club/s and the circuits.

Originally posted by heel'n'toe-no
I can't help thinking that a professionally put together programme coupled with the action in FF1600 would turn a few heads in TV land and who knows, maybe SKY Motors will take a chance and start filming events.


Sky Sports or Motors TV won't spend any money on this now, and if TV continues as it is, they are less likely to in the future.

They might be convinced to show a professionally produced programme if it is delivered to them, and doesn't cost them anything.


The other spin offs are obvious....

1)Increasing the attendances at the circuits because of the TV interest. (This would please the circuit owners and the clubs)


It may increase interest in the championship. It wouldn't (on its own) increase circuit attendances. Indeed, all the evidence suggests that people are less likely to go to the circuit if they could see it on TV, and this increases the further away from the circuit they live.


2) Sponsorship for the cars/drivers.....we could have our seasons paid for with sponsorship....NICE!


Again, you aren't going to get a huge amount of sponsorship money for 10,000 TV viewers.

Also remember that the sponsorship pool is finite. Money which sponsors give to one championship is money they are not giving to other championships.


The only downside is that if TV coverage were to happen and the money come back in to the sport then the circuits would put up our fee's in line with the money coming in. This is why it would be crucial to tie the circuits in at the embrionic stage and get a written agreement between the club/s and the circuits.

You're getting carried away now. There are four car racing events in the UK which get TV coverage which the organising club/promoters/entrants don't have to pay for, at least partially: The British Grand Prix, Rally GB, Goodwood Festival of Speed, Goodwood Historic Revival.

There is no danger of Formula Ford 1600 getting television money thrown at it. Any increase in sponsorship revenue will only be in the hundreds of pounds (per championship per season). Entry fees will only go up if the organising club thinks it can raise them without the competitors all going elsewhere, or if essential costs such as insurance premiums rise.

FF1600 is still the best racing to watch it is miles ahead of F1. H.n.t.n we should ask Chris to look into it,The trouble with that is if people watch it on tv they would realise what has been missed for years...watchable motor racing with no fear of falling asleep after lap 2...........Septic where there is a will theres a way.

Originally posted by blue nose
...........Septic where there is a will theres a way.
Only if your will (and money) to get it on TV outweighs satellite TV's will, or belief, that it's not worth their money to show it.

heel'n'toe-no I would love to take the bull by the horns but I am doing my bit to help the sport with organising the charity karting race and www.clubff1600.co.uk and I dont have any spare time to do anything else. If people want me to film and edit then no problem but someone else will have to take on the job. If anybody want to take it on then PM me.

I'd film you, but I don't think you'd like what I'd want you to wear!!!!!!!!!

OOOWWWWWWWWWHHHHH I cant look......

He would have to grow a Beard Pikey.........
(Personal Joke everyone)

Guys from Manchester like their women with beards (reginal thing I think)lol

As opposed to Commando that is...........

I have spoken to a firm who would like to film a race or two they just need permition of the circuit (I will print them something up)lol