Advise for a young (21) persons track day car.

Hello all, I found this forum today looking round for info on track days as my interest has grown for track days.

Ok I have very little experience I have been only on the track once this is at Silverstone full GP circuit in my little 1.4 saxo and had an amazing time and really enjoyed myself since then I've wanted to get a faster car and get on the track again.

Ok my main problems are... Money! I'm only 21 working full time but still paying off loan for the saxo. I want a track day car but just not sure if I can afford to have two cars as I have no way of towing a trailer it would have to be road legal so would have to be insured and taxed and MOT'd my other option is to sell the saxo and buy something older and faster and cheaper so could pay off the loan and afford the insurance with the money left over from buying a cheaper car. what car should I get I have fallen in love with the Mk2 MR2 2.0 Turbo now I have no idea on insurance but is this a good track car or is it just too powerful for an inexperienced 21 year old? I thought if I was going to get a second car maybe a 205 and strip it out as hatchbacks are more forgiving on the handling side of things.

Sorry for the essay length post!

please give me some opinions and help!!

Hi Paul and welcome to the forum.

You get a Saxo VTR or VTS, or as you say, something older like a 205 GTi or Nova GSi.

May I recommed an MG Maestro Turbo? 2.0 turbocharged engine, most less than £1500 to buy and very quick! Not sure about insurance though.

Insurance astronomical - I've been quoted up to £1k for one, and that's for a female, over 25, with no convictions and a few years NCB.
Plus there were only 505 ever made so they're hard to get hold of and many have disappeared or been modified.

A non-turbo MG Maestro would be good. Or a Mini - you can do whatever you want to it reasonably cheaply, and you're bound to have fun with it even in standard trim.

For my money, the best road legal cars that you can run on a track day (within a sensible budget) have got to be Caterhams and Westfields. Being only 21 I am sure you could put up with the dreadful hoods of the cars and the lack of any mod cons when you have driven one and realise that all your money is being spent on performance and driving pleasure. A back road blast in a decent 7 is something to savour.
If you bought one over 10 years old you may even qualify for cheap insurance and provided the car was properly built, had low mileage and had not been crashed there is no reason why a 10 year old or more caterham/westfield would not make a great car.
However, I should tell you a cautionary tale, i bought a caterham when I was about your age and before I knew it I was doing sprinting and hillclimbing and then spending all my money on racing formula fords. I am still doing it now nearly 20 years later...

Cheers everyone for your replies,

I like the idea of the caterham/westfield - my uncle has one and I have been in it but not had a go and they are very fun cars but what's the running costs like? My Uncle has had a lot of problems with his and has literally had to rebuild the engine which put me off them a bit at such a young age and on a low budget!

I like Mini's a lot but would have to be second car as its too small for everyday car - what sort of price could you pick one up for? how reliable are they?

one way I thought I could get around the insurance is if I say lower the mileage to 2 - 3K a year has anybody tried this?

If you qualify for a classic policy eg the car is over the age set by the insurer then most likely the mileage will be capped although you can probably get it up to 6k per year. I really would make some inquiries with insurers who advertise in mags such as classic and sportscar.
As to your Uncle's problems with his 7, well you can have problems with any car. I ran Caterhams for nearly 10 years and the only problems I had were minor electrical type things and the normal maintenance. The advantage with a caterham is that you will be able to work on the car yourself, as the technology is rather primative. The trick is to take your time and buy a good one at the outset.

Have fun

yeah true any car can have problems!

im with a performance insurer now (HIC) because my saxo is highly modified in a visual manner.

my other worry (I seem to have alot!) is I haven't got a garage to keep the car in it would have to be on the road and I don't know if I feel happy leaving it on the road.

Thats where a Caterham would trip you up - not the most secure car around. And even less practical than a Mini.

Stick to a good-handling Hot Hatch.

Something like a non-Vtec CRX, or Pug 205 Gti.

Say if i did go for the 205 GTi should i get it as a second car or sell the saxo and put all my money into the Pug? its just the money side of things of having two cars but i dont know if i could have my everyday car stripped out and ready for track which is what i want to do, hhmmm i seem to be going round in circles here!

if i did have two cars do you reackon i would be ok to drive the saxo round knowing that i have a faster car i could be driving.

With the second hand car market the way it is, you'll be able to pick up a capable 80s/90s era hot(ish?) hatch for peanuts. Something like a Pug GTi honestly won't set you back huge amounts. And you won't need to spend huge amounts getting it to be fun on track days either.
Car and Car Conversions mag had a feature with a Mk2 Astra, a Metro and a Citroen BX and actually found the Metro to be the most fun, especially when it blew the doors off a Subaru round a corner :laugh:

If you wanted to get rid of the Saxo, you could buy something reliable, economical, standard and sensible as an everyday car, save on insurance and running costs, and have more money to spend on the weekend toy.

One problem with just having the one car for every day and track use is whether your insurance covers mishaps on track. If it doesn't and you stuff it, you're without transport, but insuring for trackdays can be steep.

Best option if you go for two cars is check out what older (1980s say) cars could be covered cheaply by low mileage classic insurance. I'm guessing Pug 205 GTi, Mk2 Golf, maybe earlyish Toyota Corolla coupe? (rear wheel drive = much more fun! :D ). Keep it relatively cheap, and don't bother with track insurance - you may aswell just accept the risk - at least you'll still have an every day car while you fix it.

Meanwhile, if you need to sell the Saxo to raise funds, get something really sensible (ie boring!) and cheap to run for the road. Yeah, sure you'll be tempted to drive the track car, but if you really strip it out then lack of comfort/practicality may reduce the temptation...

If possible, I'd try to find somewhere secure - or at least off the road - to store the track car.

thanks Maisie, I've been looking around and yes your right you can pick up a 205 GTi very cheap 1.6 and a 1.9. my worry is not the cost of the car though but the running costs of two cars the insurance the double tax the double MOT.

thanks for all the info people its been really helpful I'm going to wait until August anyway as my insurance renews then and I will ask about my different options and see what they think and get some quotes and I promised myself I would clear all my debts before I go with the next project.

there seem to be a large amount of track days out there so I could still do some after August are there any big track days you all go to and meet up? is it free to go along and watch track days and get to know people?

Paulw, don't know if you are interested but I have a 205 GTi for sale. Please PM for details if you are.

Sheila

As far as I am aware track days are totally free to spectate at.
One thing about security with Caterhams that I found very effective over many years was having a quick release steering wheel. But the best thing is to try and rent a garage or lock up locally, put a wanted ad in the post office and you will probably find that several OAP's will be happy to rent out their garage to you rather cheaply.

Seriously consider old Honda CRX's.. cheap, reliable, classic car insurance policy, and will out perform 205 GTI's..

Maisie, been trying to get a copy of that CCC feature on the Metro, could you e-mail me a copy?

OK, I'll dig it out when I have a chance. PM me to give me a poke if you don't hear from me in the next couple of days :laugh:

get a 2nd car and tow it everywhere :)

no tax, insurance or mot needed!

alex

hi i live in chinnor oxfordshire and have a tr8 for track days http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rwracing/
if you dont get a car sorted your more than welcombe to share the car with me untill you get sorted

Wow that's an amazing offer I don't know if I would feel comfortable driving someone else's car round the track though I would be too worried about damaging it. I would like to come along with you to some track days and help you out if that would be ok I could hopefully learn a lot off you as from your site you seem to know what your doing and the car looks great!

when are doing your next track day?

WEll I'm in newbury...

again not far... I'm planning on doing a fair few trackdays... if you wanna tag along thats fine by me :)

My next one is Elvinton on the Sat 10th April what a treck!

Alex

The car does not really matter.
I have overtaken a BMW through Maggots/Beckets in a SMART car (OK it was a BRABUS conversion!)
I am out with a guy later this month in his Ka.

Driven properly you can have fun in any motor within its and your limitations.

Just enjoy developing your driving skills and mixing with like minded people.

Best regs
Steve L

I had loads of fun at Guadix in a 1.2 Corsa

Couldn't agree more Mack
I do remember using a hire Micra to 'dry the circuit' it Rowrah once!
Tee hee
Best regs
Steve L

hi the first track day should be may 21st at castle combe with bhp your more than welcombe to come and by the end of the day you will be in the driving seat
ill post when the cars ready and i have entered
rick:beer:

AlexF and rick1962uk - yeah would definitely like to tag along so let me know the details and where you want to meet up on here or by email paul_83uk@yahoo.co.uk nearer the time. Rick your probably right I know I wont be able to stand just watching all the action!

Thanks to both of you for such nice offers!

oh yeah and ive booked my little saxo on the Bruntingthorpe airway they are doing a bit of a track thing for the French Car Show its not really a track but should be fun and an hour for £25 with roll on roll off pits is hard to say no to!

Originally posted by Maisie
PM me to give me a poke if you don't hear from me in the next couple of days :laugh:

PM'd ;)

D'oh! Sorry :laugh:

Why do you want a faster car? It's always easier, and cheaper, to become a faster driver!

I'd spend your money on some serious track time, and serious tuition, in the car you have now. Just compare the cost of a second car with the cost of ten track days with tuition and you'll understand what I mean

Find an instructor who works you hard and who stretches your ability each time you go out and try and use him (or her) on every track day you do.

If you can't afford to crash the Saxo (and if you're still paying for it this may well be the case) then another car may be the only answer. But I'd recommend you get to the point that the Saxo is cornering on it's doorhandles and passing Imprezas before you go for this

Realistically all you need is a trolley jack and a spare set of wheels and tyres and you're ready to go in the Saxo

Nick Froome
www.bolide.co.uk (http://www.bolide.co.uk)

Can I recommend a suitable Instructor.
steve@b-chip.com

Have a look in this month's Revs magazine, there is a good article on Trackdays in that.

The Saxo is too cosmetically modded to do anything too serious on the track but I am doing as much as possible in it.

how much does an instructor cost for a track day and what exactly do you get?

Paul


Most track days have instructors available and costs vary. Tuition is normally taken in 15-minute stints - any longer and you'll overstress your car and your brain!

One way to get the best out of it is to set a target - such as minimising understeer - and focussing on ways to deal with it. That way you learn technique and get faster at the same time

I find one period of instruction per track day to be ideal, but find I do have to concentrate exceptionally hard to put into practice what I've learnt. It's very easy to get into bad habits on a circuit!

If you're serious I'd say do a day with one of the better track day organisers, like Motorsport Events (http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk), and book some tuition. They also do Academy days which are focussed on training

Don't let the mods to the car, the size of the engine or anything else deter you. Most track day regulars are only too aware that they're likely to be passed very quickly by a car they previously dismissed as being "slow", simply because it's being driven by an expert

Nick Froome
www.bolide.co.uk (http://www.bolide.co.uk)

Er um..
re the Instruction stuff...

I couldn't agree more..
A day is ideal as we take the whole day to work through a set process to result in a comprehensive result by close of play. From novice to racer there is usually a measurable improvement.

I happen to know someone not a million miles from here who does this regularly :)

Best regs
Steve@b-chip.com

If that isn't a big enough hint, I'd recommend Steve the Instructor. :)

Cheque in the post mate ;)

Keep up the good work all on here.
Best regs
Steve

Maisie, CCC, Metro?

Ed

She's cut down her time on here - best send her an email.

's OK, I found the issue last night. Now, if my scanner works...... :D