Superkarts and Fomula Vee Comparrisons

So I was wondering how much could you expect to pay for a new Formula Vee and what would the price range for a second hand formula vee.
There isn't a national championship for F/Vee or is there is only state championships here Australia?
Also is there a website for formula vee around?

Firstly heya 250 Shifter.
your best bet would be to do this:
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Any info you need you will be able to find out from there.
There are a heap of dude over your way that will help you out.

L8tr M8
Evan

heya Man
Umm to answer a couple of questions, yeas, there is a national championships for Vee and that was recently run ans won in Tasmania at baskerville track and taken out convincingly by Tasmanian driver Noel Clarke.
Noel dominated most of his heats and final and it was a joy to watch him carve up the countries best with an obviously down on horsepower engine!


Go to this site:
www.fvee.org.au

You can find most of what you need to know and there is a good classifieds section there with prices starting from 3 grand for an entry level car to 23 grand for the very best!

Pretty much all you need to know.

There are also some links to other vee sites around the world.

L8tr M8
E

Thanks for the website tas. Just one question, did you race in the national championship round at bakerville?

Nah dude.
I didnt have the new car at that stage and I needed new tyres for the old Elfin plus freshening the engine and it would have cost me around 1500 bucks after everything to still run around at the back of the field.

I waved flags all weekend!

L8tr M8
E

No worries man. Do you run a 1200cc or a 1600cc engine? Have you/or are you going to upgrade the brakes from steel to disc brakes.

Originally posted by tassuperkart


Formula First is the "new" generation F-Vee and I expect the 1200 'Vees to slowly fade out over time.
E

In a period of how many years do you reckon the 1200cc class will fade away?

I need to be a bit more in depth here.
Formula Vee 1200 & 1600 are distinct from Formula First.

I had overlooked this earlier on.

The rules for Formula vee 1600 and Formula First are similar but subtley different in a few areas that dont really matter.

As far as 1200 Vees fading out, this will be a process of quite a few years yet but is already in progress.
The 1600 Vees seem to going ok in NSW and are now running in Vic and SA but QLD and Tas are not bothering with them just yet.
There are not enough bulk numbers of cars to warant the introduction of 1600 Vees in Tas or Qld.

I imagine the 1200 Vees will be around for quite some time yet. At least the next couple of years in NSW, SA & Vic and much longer in Tassie and Qld but I think you will find they will gracefully fade away eventually.
l8tr M8
E

Thanks for clearing that up for me tas.

Too easy dude
L8tr
E

Found a old tape at my house last night. it was from sandown in 1983 I think. It was a 8 lap race with about 30 cars. It was a excellent race with 2 laps to go there was about 5 people who could win, but it came down to a sprint to the finish line 3 wide.

Off the Formula vee website www.fvee.org.au. They wrote how there is a new inlet manifold for the 1200cc cars because there was a big performance in different engines?Which has to be bought through the state president

It is been a while. SO when does the F/Vee kick off and has there been any improvements over the off season to cars or the state of the championships?

heya m8
Yeah, the manifold is supposed to be a better performing manifold than what the carby can handle so that will take the manifold out of the question.
ATM, a good flowing manifold and carb can cost as much as 1700 bucks which is preposterous!
There will be NO modifications allowed to the controlled manifolds so that is good as well.
Som other additions are a change allowed to the overall length of the cars, addition of electronic ignition and raising of the compression ratio.

L8tr M*
E

Whe you say they are allowed to cahnge the length of the car do you mean that they can put bigger nose cones on and stuff like that?

Whe you say they are allowed to cahnge the length of the car do you mean that they can put bigger nose cones on and stuff like that?
One other question what kind of petrol do you guys race on Premium Unleaded, Unleaded or leaded

Naww, actually lengthen the chassis.

Okay thanks for that

Sorry dude forgot to mention that fuels used are all of them from ULP, PULP, SuperPULP (optimax) and on right thru to old fashioned Avgas.
L8tr M8
E

Hi. I've read this informative thread for more than a year now and finally decided to post something. I'm in the States and would like to find a Honda RS motor but they aren't readily available here. Is there a good NZ or Aussie source I can order engine and tuning parts from? Thanks a lot.

Hey dude
There is alway stuff coming up for sale over there.
Try these URL for the Forker Bros Goodtimes Racing website.

Thats where most of the 250cc guys over there gather and post their for sales.

http://users.cyberzane.net/rforker/FORSALE-Engines.htm

If you go to the home page there are a heap of links down the sidebar to all sorts of stuff for sale.

Good luck M8
L8tr
E

Hey thanks a lot. I guess it helps when you know where to look!

Matt

Pleasure dude.
Good luck with it.
l8tr
E

No worries about the late reply, but i thought that av gas wasn't aloud in competition any more?

Avgas can still be used in race vehicles that it has not been specifically excluded untill some time in 2005.

To buy the stuff now requires a special passbook that can only be issued to motorsport competitors.

Who needs it anyway?

LOL
L8tr M8
E

Very True, There is way more better eacing fuel like Shell or Elf etc. I guess the passbook will have to get the book for cams and wait for the book for six months or some outrageous time to recieve it.

Tee Hee
Probably dude.
I dont bother with using that fuel anymore so i have not bothered to get a book.
L8tr M8
E

So you did use it at one point in time

Yeah absolutely. But I no longer bother with it now.

Plain old PULP (not Super premium Ie: Optimax) works for mew.

L8tr dude

okay, was the av gas better performence wise or worse

Ummm, Avgas is a fuel designed fo high altitude, big displacement, low RPM piston engines, where, dude to the physical size of the combustion chambers and the low RPM, combustion is difficult to control and the result is destructive detonation (pinging).
Most race cars/karts/bikes etc are small displacement, low altitude, high RPM engines so a fuel blended for aircraft is not the best solution.
However, Avgas, by its nature, allows dumbarse tuners to make some fairly drastic tuning fornication-ups and the engines live due to fairly slow flame front propagation speeds.

The bottom line is that it is not the best choice for high horsepower output.

Ther are a legion of boutique fuels such as Elf, Sunoco VP and many others that have been specially blended with particular race engines in mind and are far and away superior in most respects to Ye Olde Avagas!

However, here in Oz, these alternative fuels are very expensive and difficult to source and as far as CAMS is concerned, not deemed legal for motorsport.

Anyway, in a 'Vee its no benifit as the state of tune of the engine cannot exploit the potential in exotic fuel blends.
Avgas just smells nice really!@!!

L8tr M8
E

Thanks for clearing that up for me

On the formula vee website . The NSW Formula Vee championship is getting a go with the Konica Minolta V8 Supercar round at Eastern Creek 28th-30th May . More infomation is on www.fvee.org.au or a direct link to the story

http://www.fvee.org.au/news/konica.html

this is good for formula vee.

It says that interstate people can drop there cars off on the Thursday. So will we see any interstate competitors coming to tis event in front of the Konica Teams?

I would be very surprised if they didnt come.

Very True, with all the exposure in front of the big teams it should be a good weekend. Anyone from 10 tenths going to make the trip up or down to Eastern Creek?

Yeah i don't know how the topic was moved off superkarts and onto vees, but that the way it goes

Sure does dude!
L8tr
E

I have probaly asked this before but when does the tassie formula vee championship start?

Umm, we have already run 1 round of the tassie Champs and another non-champ round as a support event to the Recently held Octagon 400 endurance event at baskerville.

The next champ round is in mid may then we have a bloody great break untill thew very end of October.

There are 4 rounds squeezed into the last 2 months of the year.

This was done in an effort to attract more mainland competitors that regularly come down and race in the Targa/Sports GT class.

2 of the rounds are only a week apart which may encourage the mainland guys to leave their cars here and have a run at both Symmons Plains and Baskerville.

The idea of full championship race meetings a week apart is a bit of an ask but the potential benifits may outweigh the dramas.

we shall see i spose.

L8tr M8
E

So how did you run in the first round?
I find that a bit wierd having 2 rounds early in the year then having a 5 month wait until round 3, i find that a bit stupid, why isn't there maybe 1 round in the middle maybe or something like that.

Originally posted by tassuperkart

There are 4 rounds squeezed into the last 2 months of the year.

This was done in an effort to attract more mainland competitors that regularly come down and race in the Targa/Sports GT class.

2 of the rounds are only a week apart which may encourage the mainland guys to leave their cars here and have a run at both Symmons Plains and Baskerville.


As I said, It is an attept to encourage as many maniland guys to come down here and do the 2 meetings as possible.

Secondly, I can presume you havent been to Tassie in those wintermonths yeah?!!!!
July, August and September are ******* cold, often windy and wet and reeeeely unpleasant at that time of year down here and dont forget its dark enough to need headlights at 0730 and then again at 16.30 in the arvo so its not as bad a thing as it first appears.

But, having the meetings reeally bunched up like that is probably more a pain than notr

L8tr M8
E

Nah haven't been to tassie before. I will take your word and won't take a trip to tassie in the winter months. As i don't race, why would it be bad if the racing is bunched up?

Oh just the money thing reallly. When you add up entries, travelling up to Launceston and back and just day to day costs not to mention possible repairs its just a nuicance. Plus, the race meetings take up the entire weekend and to be honest I dont feel like devoting the 2 weekends end to end to racing. Its nice to have a break to enable me to "charge the batteries" if you know what I mean?!!!!!

No real biggie but Id rather have the meetings spaced a bit further.
L8tr dude
E

okay then. So if it wasn't so cold in tassie and the light held off for a bit would you like it to be a race metting once every 2-3 months or something like that?

Yep!

With the suspension, is there any setup changes that can be made to it? Like to soften up the front or maje it harder, stuff like that

Yep, all of 'em!
Toe in/out, caster, camber, ride height, spring rate, bump stop and shock dampening.
Both ends.

So is it very difficult to know what to change on the car at different tracks, such as to make it softer over the bumps, make it easier on the tyres etc and is it a big problem if you get it wrong

Hey Tas,

Slightly off topic, but being a tassie, you will appreciate this. There is a pc game called Nascar racing 2003, anyway, there is a mod for it which means you can run Trans Am cars, like our Sports Sedans, but wait it gets better, someone has made an add on track, Baskerville. Its pretty spot on with realistic lap times etc, im into the 51-52 mark, i'll take some screen shots tonite when i get back from Sandown, cya mate :)

Bwaaahahahahahahahahahah
Amonfan, 51 to 52 in a transam??????hehehehehehe mighty light and fast transam or sports sedan yeah!!!!That record 50.06 was officially set by John Bowe in a Ralt RT4/Cosworth. That time was betterd by Dave Baker in a 250 F/E superkart in 1997 with a time of 50.04 but was set in qualifying so is not recognised as a record......phhttttt!

The man: ummm there are quiite a few setup strategies that can be employed ranging from twitching everything that has an adjustment to simply not touching it and running it spec!
Both seem to work as well as the next for the majority of punters but the very best guys will exploit the slight advantages to be had by tweaking the suspension.
Personally, I leave my adjustments to shock damping rates, ride height at both ends, rear whell toe (in and out) and rear suspension droop.
I get plenty confused just with these let alone factoring in camber caster and so-on!! LOLOL

Usually, you can get away with leaving the caster, camber, ride heights and such pretty much alone and just frig with dampening and tyre pressures, which on a Vee with its rather agricultural tyres, is often enough to get what you need from it.

L8tr dudes!

Thanks tas for clearing that up for me.

Pleasure dude
L8tr
E

Just wondering, with no onboard jacks, which method do you use to get the car off the ground, a standed car jack or some other method

Yep thats it.
Nothing fancy.
No reason we cant use onboard stuff but the weight of the jack gear is the issue for most, not to mention the cost!

L8tr M8
E

True it costs a bit, so a standed car jack does the job fine or would a proper motorsport jack do the job better while costing more?

Umm the olde fashionede car jack is good enough to use at the track.
Some of the dudes have built a carstand that lifts the car up from the side about 750mm off the ground. I am going to build one myself. They just use a boat trailer winch to wind the car up.
Superkart ones I have seen use a screwjack (powerpak) to lift the karts.

So as to conserve space in my tow vehicle, I use my Subaru's screw jack on my Vee...works just fine :)

I wouldn't even think of using something like this on any type of kart.

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com
www.tvracer.com

Okay thanks for that, Just a question on the racing , have vees ever raced at night?

In Aus the man, not as far as I know, cause they have no lights.

Okay thanks for that.
This is off www.fvee.org.au , The NSW Formula vee championship has got airtime for 2 rounds.

12/5/2004 - Formula Vee on National Television Again
One of the heats at the latest round of the NSW Formula Vee State Championship will be shown on national free to air television and cable over the next few weeks. Race 2 at the second round of the NSW Formula Vee State Championship held at Eastern Creek on the 1st and 2nd of May this year will be shown on the Inside Speed show on Fox Sport 1 at 8pm Thursday the 13th of May, Eastern Australian Standard Time. The same race will be shown on SBS Speedweek sometime in the next few weeks. Keep a look out for some great racing, lots of spins and mayhem, and the best presented field of Formula Vees you could ever see!
********************************************************
14/5/2004 - Inside Speed Edition with Formula Vee At Eastern Creek Postponed

Due to programming issues, the Foxtel Inside Speed edition highlighting the May 2 Formula Vee race at Eastern Creek has been postponed until Thursday the 20th of May at 8pm on Foxsport 1.

Can't wait to watch them in action

Thanks for the info dude
Ill keep that in mind on sbs as we have no cable here
L8tr M8
E

no worries

Had a look at Formula Vee on Inside Speed last night. I thought that the coverage was excellent, as well as the racing round eastern creek. There was so many different model cars, like jacer,mako etc.

But on the telecast they said for a fully prepared car it was $30 000. It would be tested, all new parts etc, I thought this was a bit over the top since i have seen on different sites that a new vee is about $20 000. What is the extra $10 000 for?

I went to the eastern creek last week where the vees were racing with the konica v8 supercars. It was some good racing but the 3 rd race finished under a safety car i believe after a crash around the back of the circuit and one at the first corner.

In the pits i went up for a close inspection, and i saw that the gear shift looked like a sequential shift not a h-pattern as i thought it was? Which is it a sequential or a h- pattern?

It was good racing and am looking forward to seeing more of it

This is hot of the Formula vee website www.fvee.org.au

4/6/2004 - IMPORTANT NOTICE
Formula Vee has been invited to support the PROCAR meeting to be held at Winton Motor Raceway on 18-20 June 2004. We need URGENT expressions of interest in order to commit to being able to provide a decent size grid at the event.

We also encourage interstate competitors to enter in what should be a fantastic event supporting Nations Cup, Australian Formula 3 Championship and Australian Production Car Championship.

Please direct your expression of interest (name, address & phone number) to the following asap:

David Frith
david.frith@didata.com.au

Any further queries can be directed to David Frith (0408 579 767), Tony Bocquet (0419 164 279) or Graeme Gebert (03 9743 5673).

Another main stream event. This shows how much vees are getting noticed today

Been a bit quiet here l8tely.
The shifter you are talking about is in an "H" pattern, its just such a short shifter and the way its made it could be mistaken for a sequential shift. However, AFAIK, I dont think anybody has managed to set up a sequential shifter to a dak dak just yet!
L8tr dude
E

It has been a bit quiet, i thought it was because i couldn't see a gate for them easy mistake then.

Yep easy enough to do.
No they dont have any gate at all an the lever is held to one side by being in the gear.
other than that most of them just flop around.
They usually have some kind of lockout, either a mechanical block or a spring loaded arrangement to prevent them from picking up reverse tho which is down and next to second so is rather easy to find in the heat of battle.

L8tr dude
E

Okay thanks for that. So i take it that you have found reverse in the middle of a race then.

With 1600cc vees coming more of a force in racing today, do you believe that it is taking the original idea of formula vee as a 1200cc engine from a road going vw beetle, or is it just that times are changing?

Bwaaahahahahaha sure have!! never made it select thankfully but sure makes a nice grinding noise!

1200cc engines have not been in production for many years and new parts are becoming hardewr and harder to find.

1600cc stuff is a "dime a dozen" and Beetles have only been made obsolete in the last year or so, so there will be a plentiful supply of new stock parts for many years to come.
Nothing more sinister than that really.
L8tr M8
E

So the 1600cc motors are coming out of the new model beetle.

This might sound a bit stupid, but are the cars started by a key or a button. Or are they both used?

New beetle?, nonononononono LOL!
They were still producing old style air-cooled beetles in south america until just recently.
Well, the ignition isolator on the outside of the car is a key type, a real big red one! but naw just a push button.
L8tr
E

Okay thanks for clearing that up for me Tas. I saw on a vee that Russel Knewll made some little wings or some kind of flaps and attched them to his Elfin NGs h-beam suspension. Would this help his aerodynamical performance in any way

News just in from the Formula Vee web site that the Formula Vees will be a support catergory to the Bathurst 24hr here is the story.
19/7/2004 - Bathurst 24 Hour Support Race
After a lot of hard work I can annouce that today we have been asked by Peter Boylan of Procar to proceed with a expression of interest for us to be a support catergory at Bathurst 24hr race meeting on the19/21 November. This meeting will be for 1200+1600 cars, and you will be required to have at least a c4 licence to race. I will be compiling a list of competitors by way of people emailing me. If you don't let me know of your intent, don't be disappointed if you miss out on a entry or making the final number. The entry fee should be around the $500 mark. You can email me at president@fvansw.asn.au.

THis should be great with the draft trains down conrod straight, but the dipper might cause some trouble. Looks like i just won't be heading up for the 24hr now i can see Formula Vees storm round the mountain.