De Cadenet Lolas

How many where built and how much was 'Lola'390

Le Mans 78 had 3 entered which tells at least 3 where built, The cars seemed to have a long shelf life, so where the existing cars revised or new ones built.

I know one of them - called LM4 - appeared in Can-Am very briefly in (about) 1979.

So that suggests there were four.

Allen

I am ashamed to admit this as it shows up how much rubbish is retained by my memory. I can remember an article in Motor or Autocar from early 77 about the De Cadenet being taken into a wind tunnel and descibing a bunch of detail modifications to the bodywork to reduce drag/increase top speed on the Mulsanne straight. I believe it was around this time they started being called De Cadenets and not Lolas. They ran with the mods at Le Mans in 77 and I vaguely remember it may have all been to do with the magazine sponsoring the car - Did they pay for the wind tunnel time?
Don't have a copy of the magazine anymore.

We touched on this briefly in the T280 thread (around page 4-ish!)

Probably only 2 true T380s, the rest being de Cadenet, on which the LM4 which Allen mentioned is one.

HU2 (the 1001st Lola bult I think!) went to Jolly Club in 75, and they used in through to 77 at least.


Not sure whether the LM# is proper notation, in addition the first Ecosse C2 car was based on a chopped de Cadenet.

Anyway,

de Cadenet's 75-76 car went to Simon Phillips / Dorset Racing, and maybe to Francy Jerancic, who had a large accident in 1989 Interserie. This iwas often quoted as the basis for the original Group C ADA, but that car appears to be actually based on a unraced (maybe) T29x Lola .

77 car went to John Cooper, raced as the SG Lola. Not sure the fate of this.

the 78 car (Allen's LM4) retained / raced through to 81 (81 LM as the Belga liveried car)

In this notation, LM-1 is the original Duckhams Special.

Any corrections gratefully received...

This proberly wont help but here goes.
In 2001 there was 1 listed as a Lola De Cadenet T380 (Dorset Racing Colours)in the Rosso Bianco Collection, Aschaffenberg Germany. I have looked at my photo but cannot make out all, what is written on the plaque int front of car.

Rosso (http://auta5p.car.cz/muzea/rosso_bianco_2000/rb_64.htm)

Thanks for that.

So Lola built the first 2 cars for De Cadenet, he then copied the design and built 2 more.

I would love to go to Rosso Collection.

I can't send a picture (anymore, why not?) but I drove the Cooper/Lovett Lola in 79 at Le Mans.
Lovely car for that race, but lack of testing meant we were a bit unsorted. retired around 5 in the morning with shorting electrics and no clutch from about 9.
Sports car DFV in it. Cooper got it up to 8th early on. Beautiful.

John, hi. re picture attachments, see this message:
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=1071794#post1071794

Nordic
Thats the car. I hope you get to visit Rosso Bianco, Its sport car heaven. The only F1 car was Graham Hill's Hill in Embassy colours.

A de Cadenet from 1977 was in the Le Mans Classic last july. Its chassis number was "GLC 913". Don't ask us about what it means...

I must admit I've seen a reference to that chassis somewhere before, but can't for tthe life of me remeber where. The only thing GLC means to me is Greater London Council... Coyotes, was this the Belga-liveried #20 car that raced in the Classic?

Either Autosport or Motor Sport (think it was the latter) referred to the chassis of the de cadenet that became the Ecoose as "ADC/78/1". This notation also appears in "Time and two Seats".

GLC - Gordon (Murry who design updates made it the narrow car it was)
L - Lola (basis car)
de Cadenet - (instigated the programme)

!

No ...

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Coyotes, was this the Belga-liveried #20 car that raced in the Classic?



Yes, this is the car. We haven't seen the chassis plate but trusted the mechanics. The car never ran Le Mans, as a De Cadenet, according to them.

Nordic said "I would love to go to Rosso Collection."
u get the comfy car for the long 6-7 hr drive & i will book the ferry! :cool:
re 380/390 cars
seen ad for car for sale via Chris fox will check what model it is

There's a French guy that has documented all Lola Sportscars. Can't remember the url. Will post tonight.

PRF

PS - He's also featured De Cadetnet's

Here it is:

http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory

there is a french book on sports cars out featured in autosport this week
£40 in french but many good colour pics mostly on 2 litre sports cars and lists all race entries

Which was the car he raced in the TV documentary comparing his and Guy Edwards Le Mans race in the early 80's? (82?)

De Cadenet shared the car with the Martin brothers (IIRC) in Belga livery. Guy Edwards shared his car (was it a Lola) with De Villota and a Spanish driver.

edit - looking at the list it looks like the 1981 Le Mans was featured in the film

After a bit of digging I found an answer to my own question about GE!

http://www.teamdan.com/archive/wsc/1981/81lemans.html

Emilio de Villota (E)/Guy Edwards (GB)/Juan Fernandez (E) Lola T600 Ford HU03 Grid Team Lola

Some great names in those results!

FYI
emilio de vilotta is spanish
do u mean him as the spanish driver or another spaniard

In addition - it was Fernandez I was missing - he brought money from Danone for the drive (IIRC).

Although I cannot say for sure which year it happened, I am fairly certain that one of the de Cadenet cars that ran at Le Mans used the DFV that had, in 1972, powered the Connew F.1 car.

Peter Connew was told by McLaren, from whom the engine was borrowed, that he could sell it on and it was to Alain de Cadenet that it went.

From there, naturally, it found its way into a Le Mans car.

Again, without concrete evidence, I believe it now resides connected to an F.1 car at Donington.

the dfv went into the duchams de cadanet car

De Cadenet au Mans (7 participations et 11 voitures)
Year
Nbre

Désignation
Châssis probable
Classement/Team
75
1
De Cadenet Lola
Lola T 380 – HU01
14 ème & Meilleur Tour /Alain de Cadenet
76
1
De Cadenet
T 380 – HU01
3ème /Alain de Cadenet
77
1
De Cadenet T380 LM
ADC/77/01 (GLC 913)
ou T290 ou T390 ?
5ème /Alain de Cadenet
78
2
De Cadenet
De Cadenet
ADC/78/01 T290 ou T390
Lola T380 – HU01
15ème /Alain de Cadenet
Dis/Simon Phillips Racing(Bat)
79
3
De Cadenet
Fisons Lola T286
Lola T281 SG
ADC/78/01 ?
Lola T380 – HU01
ADC/77/01 ?
Ab/Alain de Cadenet
20 ème /Simon Phillips Racing (Fisons)
Ab/John Cooper Racing (St Georges)
80
1
De Cadenet LM
ADC/78/01 ?
7ème /Alain de Cadenet
81
2
De Cadenet LM
De Cadenet LM
ADC/78/01 ?
ADC/77/01 ?
Ab/Alain de Cadenet (Belga)
Ab/Dorset Racing

Year
Nbre
Désignation
(Lola T380 ou ADC/77/01 ou T294 ?)
Catégorie

Classement/Team
82
1
De Cadenet Lola DRA
C
Ab/Dorset Racing Associates
83
1
De Cadenet Lola Ford
C Junior
NC/François Duret
84
1
ADA01 Ford
C2
Ab/ADA Engineering

oups sorry the Excel file do not go well

probably better to paste copy xl file onto word document to see how it looks then u can adjust to fit here

Just to add to the confusion here are a few snippets.

I bought the Belga Car from Alain de Cadenet in 1985. My purchase was brokered by Chris Crawford of ADA Engineering. it was fitted with DFV 066 which together with DFV 928 shared the most Cosworth victories. Engine went Tyrrell then Chequered Flag then De Cad and sports car specced by John Nicholson. I do not remember the car having a chassis plate and we always referred to it as the De Cadenet LM. I kept one set of bodywork in Belga Colours and Charles Ivey Ltd painted the spare set red. I entered it at a Thruxton Thundersports race in 1985 for Bill Wykeham/Ian Harrower and the car was 'not' quick plus we had fuel vaporisation problems. A few weeks later, I entered the car for another T/Sports race. This time at Brands Club for Richard Jones (he had driven it at Le Mans) and I think the other driver was Sam Cleps. The car could barely break the 50 sec barrier on the club circuit. It finally dawned on me that it was designed for the Mulsanne straight was obviously going to be useless for T/Sports so I never raced it again. I sold the car a few years later to Martin Birrane having removed DFV066 which went into my Mclaren M23. I can say that the LM had a highly detailed notebook written by De Cad which I no longer have but the tub was designed by Gordon Murray and the corners where Lola T280 ( I had the spare corners and wheels until recently)
The only other info I can think of regarding the De Cad cars is that the Duckhams used the corners from a Brabham BT33 (I think 33/2, anyway the one in Donnington) ex C Craft and that one of the De Cads became the basis of ADA 01 otherwise known as the 'Morris Minor'. This horrendous looking car went to Switzerland.
Colin Pool

Martin birrane ran the car at classic LM this weekend
it must have been depressing to see a LM car do 50 secs around Brands indy that would have put u on 2nd or 3rd row of the grid in a ff1600 race !!
ironically i bought a 10 x 8 foto of this car 2 weeks ago at a book shop

i am glad to read pinguino about the Belga livery car. I saw the car at Le Mans Classic, and the chassi plate is GLC 913 !
I think that it is for Gordon Len and CadenET, but why 913 ?

I try to know how many De Cadenet with Lola Corners (mean suspension ?, sorry but i am french) was build.

I opened a french topic about Lola and De Cadenet on http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067
and some guys put nice pictures.

my thinking is now :
Alain De Cadenet built the Duckams wich become the 74 De Cadenet et become later the "Morris Minor".

He built 2 ADC cars :
The GLC 913 wich i suppose was ADC 77 and is now the Belga Car.
The ADC 78, and i believe this car become the first Ecosse and was destroyed in a crash.

So the mistery is now about the Lola HU01 De Cadenet, i believe this car was the BAT car then the Fisons car ; where HU01 is now ?

Could you help me ?

Thanks

my thinking is now :
Alain De Cadenet built the Duckams wich become the 74 De Cadenet et become later the "Morris Minor".this car was the LM race car sold to uk race driver and had VW Variant body fitted raced in Special saloons in 75 & 76 car now restored back to LM sports car today

He built 2 ADC cars : he bought in 1975 Lola T380 HU1 this car was raced at LM
car was sold to Dorset racing for 1976 LM De Cad built new car with Thompson chassis and Lola corners LM2 ?
Dorset ran the T380 HU1 car until 1981
in 78 De cad build sanother car LM3 ? same way as he did for the LM2 car thompson tub lola corners
it is believed he needed NEW car each year to get LM entry
He built 1 more car LM4 race dthat then sold 1 car to Martin Bros and they bought a 2nd car from De Cad to end up with 2 cars
The GLC 913 wich i suppose was ADC 77 and is now the Belga Car.no
The ADC 78, and i believe this car become the first Ecosse and was destroyed in a crash.the car was not the 1st Ecurie Ecoss Group C car

So the mistery is now about the Lola HU01 De Cadenet, i believe this car was the BAT car then the Fisons car ; where HU01 is now ?HU2 is still in italy restored and running
HU1 is now in a collection in scandanavia

Could you help me ?

Sorry, but i believe that http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory is wrong about De Cadenet.

i am happy that you confirm about the Minor

But in 78 and 79, 3 cars was entered with a Lola T380 body look
I am sure that the Bat then the Fisons was the HU01 Lola (i had a look at the ACO files)

"it is believed he needed NEW car each year to get LM entry"
Why he needed NEW car ? ACO never ask for that !
De Cadenet was not so rich to do it !


So that's mean that De Cadenet built 2 cars (ADC 77 and ADC 78) one of this car is the Belga car (Pinguino's car ! martin Birrane ran it at Le Mans Classic 2006, the chassis plate is GLC 913).

i heard that the first Ecosse Group C was based upon a De Cadenet and was destroyed in a crash in 1988.

so i believe :

LM1 : Duckams become Morris Minor
LM2 : ADC 77 (GLC 913 ?)
LM3 : ADC 78 become the first Ecosse Group C

LM4 : do not exist (i never see on ACO files an ADC 76, in 75 and 76 it was the Lola HU01, who was sold and become the Bat car then the Fisons cars. Now in scandinavia ? any picture ?

(some ACO files spoke about the T281 SG for the White with a red cross car , and named the FISONS car a T286) It's a mistake.

If you speak or read a little bit french read :
http://www.sportscaruniverse.com/SportProtos_ap80/GroupeC2/EcosseC284/C2_EcosseC284ford.htm

It is not me !

LM4 was the designation given to the British Post Office sponsored car that De Cad drove in Can-Am in 1978.

Also, the Ecosse C284 was built around "ex-Dorset Racing tub ADC78/1" (according to Briggs p304).

Allen

I agree there may be things not yet completely right on that geocities page but there must have been a LM4. In 1978, LM2 was the #12 Batcar, LM3 was the #9 Cooper/Lovett/Evans car so the #8 De Cad/Craft must have been new.

Crude translation

In 1982, Hugh McCaig associates itself with the journalist Graham Gauld to reform the prestigious Ecurie Scotland, returned if famous by its victories to the Mans in the years 50 with typical Jaguars C and D.

Their objective is to construct a prototype replying to the category C Junior of the endurance World Championship.

For this done McCaig does the acquisition of a chassis (the n° ADC78/1 former dorset Racing) of an old one of Cadenet Lola Groups 6 that Ray Mallock, implied since the beginning in the project, modifies according to its own drawings. Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain. And to propel the C284, McCaig carries his choice on the V8 Ford Cosworth DFV 3,0 conceived liters for the F1 and of which the preparation is reserved to the structure Swindon Engines of John Dunn.

Despite a chassis of which the conception begins dating seriously, the C284 proves itself both reliable and quick in speed of not at all.
The beginnings in chases Scotland Read Ecosse)take place at Monza, in 1984, where Dave Dudfield and Mike Wilds finish second in Junior C.

To Silverstone, Dudfield and Wilds, rejoined by David Leslie, are constrained to the abandonment because of a clutch broken.

In the Sarthe, the C284-Cosworth, to the hands of Mike Wilds, Leslie and Dudfield, withdraws itself to the end of six hours of race on a gasoline failure.

Left to do a comprehends in the British series Thundersports to Brands Hatch the car is destroyed in an accident.

McCaig dismantles it in spare parts that will serve to the construction of the C285.

Whart do you think of this explanation :



LM1 : Duckams become Morris Minor and the DFVW
LM2 : Is the Lola who ran LeMans in 75 and 76 with De Cadenet and the become the Bat then the Fisons
LM3 : ADC 77 (GLC 913 ?) The Belga car
LM4 : ADC 78 become the first Ecosse Group C

I will post later a complete history in Le Mans of these cars...

Crude translation...That's the text of the Briggs book. Page 304. I wonder which came first ;)

The T380 hu 1 car did not run the standard body work
That car was sold to Dorset racing for 77 then the car went to Phillips Raymond car now in private collection
T380 hu2 is in italy restored and with original bodywork

I was told on "good" authority that de Cad sold 1 car to to Martin bros then built another car from his pile of spares and later sold that to Martin Bros
I do not know where this car is now

So if LM4 was written off that leaves only 1 de cad car 1 lola t 380 and the Duckhams cars left
i think the fotos of the LM2 34 cars need to be together to see if the written off car was lm3 or 4
Birrane runs his car as LM4

Sorry Drifty, that doesn't fit either.

Colin said he bought the Belga car from De Cad in 1985 and that's the one Birrane has now. The geocites site calls that LM4 and that fits my understanding of it. However, the Dorset Racing car that became the Ecosse is said to have had tub ADC78/1. That means ADC78/1 can't have been LM4. Also, if you know where the Philips/Raymond car is now, that can't be the car that became the Ecosse.

I think someone needs to go back to basics on the lives of LM2, LM3, LM4 and this possible fourth car and get their race histories and early ownership histories straight. Without that solid starting point, we're just going round in circles.

Allen

http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory/
go into the Group 6 section then click on flag under Lola T380 cars
I think some of the fotos are not in the correct place
also the comment re ADA car being T290 390 based i think is not correct that car was crashed in europe somewhere ( ADA man told me this)
driven by an eastern European owner
Yes Allen yr right each car needs a listing
as i have the body of the dorset car as per the foto BH 6 hr race less the large white circular stickers we can poss assume the car is LM3 that was converted to the 1st ecosse ( was the tub / car then totally binned? )as LM4 is the Belga Birrane ex Pool car
did u look at the fotos i sent to you?

Do u think LM3 and LM4 bodies are the same?
If my body is LM3 that explains why the car is not around and i have the bodywork

the t380-390 thread is here as well for reference
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77985

So folks, I am agree with you…

LM1 is the Duckhams ! and was not a Lola, but a Gordon Murray’s based on a BT33. The car ran Le Mans in 72 and 73 as a Duckhams then in 1974 as a green De Cadenet. Some people think it became the Colin Hawker DFVW in 1975 with a VW Variant Body shell. I am sure that it is correct.

LM2 is believed to be the T380 HU01 ran by De Cadenet at Le mans in 75 with a nearly standart body work (number 4) and then modified in 76 to run Le Mans (number 12); the car had a bulb nose.
In 77, the car sold to Dorset Racing, but with a Alain De Cadenet entry fail to qualify (number 6) had still a bulb nose. Tony Birchenough from the Dorset was at the wheel with Simon Philips.
In 78, the car was entered as a De Cadenet Lola T380 by Simon Philips. It was yhe Bat Car still with a bulb nose, with Martin raymondat the wheel.
In 79, the car was entered as a Lola T286 (!!!!!!) still with a bulb nose, by Fison Agricole - Simon Phillip.
So for this car , I think that common point is the bulb nose, lola, dorset racing and simon Philips. After that, the car disappear and you told me that the car is now in Scandinavia.

LM3 is believed to be ADC77/01 built by Alain De Cadenet with Lola corners ?
It appears in Le Mans as number 5 in 1977.
In 78, three cas was entered, so one of them was a new one (LM2, LM3 and the new LM4).
LM2 was the Bat Car.
LM3 and LM4 was entered by Alain De Cadenet himself.
Number 8 for him and Craft (ACO said De Cadenet Lola T380 !, ADC said De Cadenet Lola 76/77 !)
Number 9 for Cooper Lovett Evans (ACO said De Cadenet Lola LM ! ADC said De Cadenet Lola 75/77) who fail to qualify.
Who cheat ?
So LM4 was ADC78/01 ! but we don’t know if Alain take the new car for him.

In 1979, also three cars :
LM2 is the Fisons car (number 15)
John Cooper Racing entered a Lola T281 SG (number 3) for him and Lovett and Morrison. I think that it the same car than in 1978. The car was white with a big red cross.
T281 does not exist as a Lola, SG mean St Georges ? (ACO guys are stupid !)
Alain entered the number 8 as De Cadenet LM
Wich one is LM3 and Wich one is LM4.

In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 (I suppose the same car than the previous year)
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. But did not qualify.

In 1981 : two cars
Alain entered the number 20 with Belga livery (Murry Smith , the team manager for the car (?) ) said it was a car from 78 named De Cadenet LM, ACO also it’s a De Cadenet LM !) The car had a 3300 DFV for testing only. I think it the same car than in 1980. I hope that this car is the Martin Biranne car I saw at Le Mans Classic 2006, with a chassis dataplate GLC 913.
G for Gordon Murray
L for Len Bailey or Lola (Lola suspension)?
C for Cadenet ?
913 (what is this number for ?)
I think this car is LM4 or ADC78/01. That means that Alain used the new car back in 1978 !

Dorset Racing entered the number 21 for Faure, Candy, Birranne. The car had a 3000 DFV and was known as a De Cadenet Lola T380 #T380-HU1-=>LM-2 at Brands Hatch 1000 km (according to Rracing Sports Cars) and De Cadenet LM for ACO ! and Number 23 in DRM Zolder 1982.
We should ask lola@dorset-racing.com (lola@dorset-racing.com) to know what was this car is ! LM2, LM3 or LM4 ?
I think because of Faure, it was the ex-Cooper car.

So wich car become the first Ecosse Group C ? LM3 or LM4 ? According to Sportscaruniverse, it was ADC78/01 :
“In 1982, Hugh McCaig associates itself with the journalist Graham Gauld to reform the prestigious Ecurie Scotland, returned if famous by its victories to the Mans in the years 50 with typical Jaguars C and D. For this done McCaig does the acquisition of a chassis (the n° ADC78/1 former dorset Racing) of an old one of Cadenet Lola Groups 6 that Ray Mallock, implied since the beginning in the project, modifies according to its own drawings. Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain.
And Ray Mallock confirm on his website : “The second project being undertaken was for a group of Scottish businessmen who had re-launched the famous Ecurie Ecosse team. Based upon a de Cadenet chassis RML developed the car to accept a completely new bodywork package, a shape that would be familiar in sportscar racing throughout the eighties.” But he don’t told us which De Cadenet it is. Confusing is possible because Mallock drove the Fisons car in Le Mans 1979 and it was a Dorset car !
The car was totally destroyed in a crash.
So the Ecosse could be a Dorset car or a ADC78/01. Yes we should ask Dorset Racing, if they remember, if they purchased the LM2 T380, the LM3 ADC77/01 or LM4 ADC78/01

The only thing that we are sure is that there is only two De Cadenet still existing :
The LM1 Duckams and the Martin Birrane’s car (GLC 913)


About the ADA Minor :
People think that the ADA minor has no common point with De Cadenet, except the nose ! The car is believed built bye Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact?

I will send this text to Dorset Racing and maybe they can answer on http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/show...84#post1827084 (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1827084#post1827084)

Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)

car was the DFVW we where there watching it race
Toleman sponsored the car and it had jackie stewarts dfv fitted

In addition to the text for 1980 :

"In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 (I suppose the same car than the previous year)
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. But did not qualify."
This car according to the ACO scruteneening form is De Cadenet SLG 781 and was built in 1978; http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo066ooit4.jpg

So what is SLG 781 (we have already a mysterious GLC 913 !)
S ?
L for Lola or Len
G still for Gordon ?
Or it is a Thompson reference ?

The previous year the car was entered as Lola SG 281 and i think the ACO made a mistake in 1979 (the 2, was only on typewriter paper !).
78 for the year and 1 for the first chassis ?

Keep on searching...

Is there anybody who now Alain De Cadenet adress ? it wll be more easier to as him !

are they 2 cars or 2 entries for 1 car
red and white car can be Cooper SG car or Belga livery
i suspect its the Copper car

fotos will be required from the event to see what car tested and raced
tomorrow i have a meeting wth a man who said he knows de cad will see if he has tel # email data for him

At this point, i think that we should now, wich car was the Belga Car (the only existing except LM1) : Is it LM3 built in 77 ? or LM4 built in 78 ?

assume its LM4 as LM3 appears to have gone to Ray Mallocks to make the ecosse as i have that bodywork!

This isn't going to help much as I don't have the chassis number. Nice car though.http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3226/79lemansns5.jpg
We used it for a Brands GP 4 Hr WC race. I remember we were 2nd or 3rd when a steering arm broke. I ran into the De C garage and filtched a spare off a spare front suspension assembly they had near the door ( our teams weren't talking: people who did business wit De C rarely did for long!). Half a result.

John i think that car is LM3 then sold to Dorset racing to Tony
i have the body on green

can someone give me a history of De Cadenet?
(the same Alain de Cadenet from Speed Channel?)

Thats the guy!!!

Motor Sport last issue. Big profile.

LM4 was the designation given to the British Post Office sponsored car that De Cad drove in Can-Am in 1978.

Also, the Ecosse C284 was built around "ex-Dorset Racing tub ADC78/1" (according to Briggs p304).

Allen

Wasn't the Post Office car actually a Mirage GR6, ex-Gelo car ???

He drove the De Cadenet Lola at some races and a Mirage GM7 at others.

This is it at Mosport in August: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1978/Mosport-1978-08-20-004.jpg

Here's the Mirage at Mid-Ohio in June for ganley when the Lola would have been at Le Mans: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1978/Mid-Ohio-1978-06-11-004.jpg

Is the Mirage a real one ? or a De Cad, or Lola, or anything else with a Mirage body ?

Maybe we should open a Mirage chassis number thread ?

Still waiting for some informations from driftwood and others, before trying to close the story of De Cadenet Chassis.
LM1 : its very clear
LM2 : its nearly clear, but when De Cadenet sold it, he sold it to somebody affiliate to the dorset racing, and then, after Dorset Racing, what happens to HU01 after Le Mans 79 (Fisons). The chassis ran other events ? and who own it now ?
LM3 : AdC sold it to somebody affiliate to the Dorset (JC Cooper who sold it after to nick Faure, and then Ray Mallock dit the Ecosse with it; But maybe AdC sold LM4 to JC Cooper and kept LM3 for him ? so it could be LM3 the Belga car and LM4, the Ecosse ?

In fact we dont know at Le Mans, if between 77 an 81, AdC ran the same chassis. For the moment nothing prove it !

Reasons : AdC could kept the old car, because of reliability and "gave" the new chassis to JC Cooper who did not qualify the first year, because the car was not so well prepared in time !

Could John told us, if the car he drove in 79 was the property of Cooper ?

The more simple story will be that AdC took the new car (LM4) and kept it until 1985, when he sold it to Pinguino, whot sold it to Martin Birrane !

Any news, Driftwood ? did you talk with an De Cad's guy ?

Is the Mirage a real one ? or a De Cad, or Lola, or anything else with a Mirage body ? real Mirage chassis# is listed somewhere


Maybe we should open a Mirage chassis number thread ?another day maybe too stressful ealing with

Still waiting for some informations from driftwood and others, before trying to close the story of De Cadenet Chassis.
LM1 : its very clearduckhams car
LM2 : its nearly clear, but when De Cadenet sold it,sold to dorset sold 1976 so they race le mans and de cad race the newly built lm3 car he sold it to somebody affiliate to the dorset racing,dorset racing IS Tony Birchenhough and then, after Dorset Racing, what happens to HU01 after Le Mans 79 (Fisons). it seems thay ha dthe car as Dorset late get LM3 carThe chassis ran other events ? and who own it now ?in a private collection
LM3 : AdC sold it to somebody affiliate to the Dorsetdorset had it last THEY RACED IN 6 HR BRANDS RACE 1981 BODY HAS lm 1983 STICKER ON IT AS WELL (JC Cooper who sold it after to nick Faure, and then DORSET TO MALLOCK IS MY GUESSRay Mallock dit the Ecosse with it; But maybe AdC sold LM4 to JC Cooper and kept LM3 for him ?NO so it could be LM3 the Belga car and LM4, the Ecosse ?NO

In fact we dont know at Le Mans, if between 77 an 81, AdC ran the same chassis. For the moment nothing prove it !

Reasons : AdC could kept the old car, because of reliability and "gave" the new chassis to JC Cooper who did not qualify the first year, because the car was not so well prepared in time !UNLIKELY

Could John told us, if the car he drove in 79 was the property of Cooper ?

The more simple story will be that AdC took the new car (LM4) and kept it until 1985, nowhen he sold it to Pinguino, whot sold it to Martin Birrane !I THINK COLIN POOL BOUGHT THE CAR FROM BELGIUM Martin Brothers they raced car in 81/82

Any news, Driftwood ? did you talk with an De Cad's guy ?not yet i ask now we had $$ matters to discuss yesterday:)

The more simple story will be that AdC took the new car (LM4) and kept it until 1985, nowhen he sold it to Pinguino, whot sold it to Martin Birrane !I THINK COLIN POOL BOUGHT THE CAR FROM BELGIUM Martin Brothers they raced car in 81/82Colin Pool states in his post that he bought the Belga car from AdC.

Guys, we're still going round in circles speculating. We need solid facts and that means someone needs to open Autosport, Sport Auto, Autosprint, etc, etc and see what they say about each car at each race.

There's just no substitute for spade work.

Allen

The end of the story for De Cadenet !

LM1 is the Duckhams ! and was not a Lola, but a Gordon Murray’s based on a BT33 components. The car ran Le Mans in 72 and 73 as a Duckhams then in 1974 as a green De Cadenet, with a look alike Ferrari 312 PB body. the car became the Colin Hawker DFVW in 1975 with a VW Variant Body shell. The car still exist and have been restored with the 1973 look (without the long tail which was the 1972 body style)

LM2 is T380 HU01 ran by De Cadenet at Le mans in 75 with a nearly standart body work (number 4) and then modified in 76 to run Le Mans (number 12); the car had a bulb nose.
In 77, the car was sold to Dorset Racing, and enter Le Mans with a Alain De Cadenet entry. The Dorset fail to qualify (number 6). Tony Birchenough from the Dorset was at the wheel with Simon Philips.
In 78, the car was entered as a De Cadenet Lola T380 by Simon Philips. It was the Bat Car still with a bulb nose, with Martin raymond at the wheel.
In 79, the car was entered as a Lola T286 (!!!!!!) still with a bulb nose, by Fison Agricole - Simon Phillip.
The car was then sold and is now in Scandinavia private collection.

LM3 is believed to be ADC77/01 built by Alain De Cadenet with Lola corners
It appears in Le Mans as number 5 in 1977.
In 78, three cas was entered, so one of them was a new one (LM2, LM3 and the new LM4).
LM2 was the Bat Car.
LM3 and LM4 was entered by Alain De Cadenet himself (only because of ACO regulation)
Number 8 for him and Craft (ACO said De Cadenet Lola T380 !, ADC said De Cadenet Lola 76/77 !) This car was the new LM4 also call ADC 78/01
Number 9 for Cooper Lovett Evans (ACO said De Cadenet Lola LM ! ADC said De Cadenet Lola 75/77) who fail to qualify was LM3.

In 1979, also three cars :
LM2 was the Fisons car (number 15)
John Cooper Racing entered a Lola T281 SG (number 3) for him and Lovett and Morrison. The car was white with a big red cross. This car was LM3.
T281 does not exist as a Lola, SG mean St Georges ? (ACO guys are stupid !)
We thing, according to John Morrison, that LM3 was not part of the "official" De Cadenet team.
Alain entered the number 8 as De Cadenet LM and it was LM4


In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 and it was LM4
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. It was LM3.
This car according to the ACO scruteneening form is De Cadenet SLG 781 and was built in 1978; http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?i...to066ooit4.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo066ooit4.jpg)
So the mystery is a bout the significant of SLG 781 (we have already a mysterious GLC 913 !)
S ?
L for Lola or Len
G still for Gordon ?
Or it is a Thompson reference ?
The previous year the car was entered as Lola SG 281 and i think the ACO made a mistake in 1979 (the 2, was only on typewriter paper !).
78 for the year and 1 for the first chassis ?


In 1981 : two cars
Alain entered the number 20 with Belga livery (Murry Smith , the team manager for the car (?) ) said it was a car from 78 named De Cadenet LM, ACO also it’s a De Cadenet LM !) The car had a 3300 DFV for testing only. This car was LM4. This car was purchased in 1985 by "pinguino" who ran it in some event, and then sold it to Martin Biranne. Everybody saw it at Le Mans Classic 2006, with a chassis dataplate GLC 913.
The mystery is now only about this chassis plate :
G for Gordon Murray ?
L for Len Bailey or Lola (Lola suspension)?
C for Cadenet ?
913 (what is this number for ?)
I think this car is LM4 or ADC78/01. That means that Alain used the new car back in 1978 !

Dorset Racing bought LM3 from Nick Faure and entered it as number 21 for Faure, Candy, Birranne. The car had a 3000 DFV and was De Cadenet LM for ACO ! This car was Number 23 in DRM Zolder 1982. Dorset Racing sold it to Ray Mallock and the car became the first Ecosse Group C . Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain. The car was totally destroyed in a crash. The original body of LM3 car was put on a T390 chassis and displayed at the Rosso Bianco Museum. Driftwwod bought the chassis and he is now the proud owaner of a true De Cadenet body ! (thanks to him)


We are sure is that there is only two De Cadenet still existing :
The LM1 Duckams and LM4 the Martin Birrane’s car (GLC 913)
Also it exist LM2 (the Lola T380 HU01) somewhere in Scandinavia.


About the ADA Minor :
The car is believed built by Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact. The car seems to be know destroyed after a polish guy fit a Porsche engines and a Mazda engines in it. He crashed the car.

Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)

The pictures and this story has been updated by Lolafan on his website
http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory/

I think now that everyone is ok about De Cadenet's cars story.

Thanks to everyone.

Driftwwod bought the chassis and he is now the proud owaner of a true De Cadenet body ! (thanks to him)
"PROUD" MAY BE TOO STRONG A WORD!!!!:laugh:



About the ADA Minor :
The car is believed built by Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact. The car seems to be know destroyed after a polish guy fit a Porsche engines and a Mazda engines in it. He crashed the car.i WILL ASK CHRIS AGAIN TODAY I DID ASK HIM 4 WEEKS AGO HE SAID IT WAS NOT T290 JUST SOME LOLA CORNERS
Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)YOUR ENGLISH IS GREAT OUR FRENCH IS MERDE -WHAT REALLY UPSETS US "ROS BEUF" IS WHEN YOUR FRIENDS AT CALAIS GO ON STRIKE THAT REALLY HAS PI'@@ED US OFF!:rofl:

Thanks for everything... if you will be able to come to Le Mans in june, i will be pleased to meet you !

For the ADA, i think that Crhis Crawford is the best guy to know about it !!!!
And so the Morris Minor was based on Lola T290 corners, Porsche 906 windscreen and Lola T380 bulb nose and headlight !

Here is a link with an interesting picture of the ADA
http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067&page=6

Echappement Le Mans preview June 1979 p121:

[i]Le Britannico-francais nous revient au Lans avec encore plus d'ambitions. La voiture n'est qu'une version légèrement modifiée de celle de 78, elle-même extrapolée de la version 77, elle-même ... d'une version 76, elle-même d'une ... Lola![i]

Which google translates as:

Britannico-French returns to us in Lans with even more ambitions. The car is only one version slightly modified of that of 78, itself extrapolated of the version 77, itself… of a version 76, itself of one… Lola!

Allen

So we assume this is LM3 ((Thomson chassis with lola corners) car from 1977 updated
LM4 does not exist till later then?

If that's the case, we don't have enough cars. Two 1977 models maybe?

think i need to talk to de Cad
waiting for a contact # for him
ironically my spanner man delivered a car to kensington garage last week and de cad rode past ( leg in plaster on a moped!) stopped and asked about the car but my man was too shy ( or slow) to mention my car body / get tel # !!

He is now cleaning out the toilet and will soon be painting the floor with a toothbrush

Please, dont trust french journalist ! Especially about Echappement in 1979 for "international" races ! I know what i am talking about !
(who sign the the preview ?)
At this time they took information, without ask anybody. The main problem was at this time that nobody care about chassis number. I still persist on my story. Please print it and show it to De Cadenet or Birrane or Dorset Birchenghou...

One relaible source could be the Annuel 79 from Teissedre and Moity (I lost these books...) I know these guys they are the most reliable guys about Le Mans.

I have made list of De cad lolas from 75-85 with small fotos
the 1978 LM entry is the query
i cannot find foto of car no 9 entered by De Cad for Cooper
it was DNQ
was this a duel entry for the same car so that cooper could test LM track to buy the car later and get favourable entry for 1979 LM?
Taken from a webs listing for 79 results

15 8 Alain de Cadenet, GBDe Cadenet Lola T380 - Ford Cosworth DFV ADC/77 /1 LM3 Thompson chassis Lola corners Alain de Cadenet, GBChris Craft, GB 2993 V8 6 2733729.570



DQ/DNF 12 Simon Phillips Racing with BATCO France, GBDe Cadenet Lola T380 - Ford Cos. DFV Lola T380 HU1 LM2 Nick Faure, GBJohn Beasley, USASimon Phillips, GBMartin Raymond, GB 2993 V8 6 14h Accident, disqualifed

DNQ 9 Alain de Cadenet, GBDe Cadenet LM76 Lola T380 - Ford Cosworth DFV what car is this Peter Lovett, GBJohn Cooper, GBBob Evans, GB 2993 V8

I wasn't trying to make a point with that quote. I was just adding some new information.

I still believe we need more contemporary reports to make sense of all this.

I have found cooper car foto for 1978 LM that DNQ
there are 2 De Cad LM3 cars and the BAT car is Lola T380 LM2 car all at 1978 LM
also found 79 LM Cooper entry foto
So what happened to the 2nd LM3 car?
which 1 did Dorset get?

Grand Prix International No 83 21 Jun 1984 p56: "The ADA-Ford is without question the oldest car in the field at the 1984 Le Mans race. It's in fact nothing more than a metamorphosis of the antique de Cadenet 2 litre Lola from 1974, transformed for this occasion into a car of the C2 class. Already entered in 1982 and 1983 by ADA ..."

However, Briggs (p272) says it was "based largely on the chassis of an old 2 litre open-top Group 6 Lola showcar - circa 1974", adding "contrary to what has been written in some quarters, the monocoque was not from one of Alan de Cadenet's Le mans challengers" and that the Lola tub "could boast no racing history".

Sorry guys, I repost the story just because i think the trth is in it !
Please dont trust old reports of the race. Because french journalist was only interested in the winners during all these years (and a lot of them was not able to speak english except Jabby Crombac, but he was not interested about De Cadenet's cars !

Last year in Le Mans , i spoke with my friend J M Tesseidre (Auto Hebdo and Yearbook Le Mans) He said to me that the De Cadenet story was unclear, even for him, because De Cadenet do not speak too much about how the cars was made...

You can find pictures on Lolahistory and Motorlegend Forum...

Even ACO entry list are sometimes wrong ! I know what i am talking about , I work for ACO every year since 15 years making The Official Entry List Book !

LM1 is the Duckhams ! and was not a Lola, but a Gordon Murray’s based on a BT33 components. The car ran Le Mans in 72 and 73 as a Duckhams then in 1974 as a green De Cadenet, with a look alike Ferrari 312 PB body. the car became the Colin Hawker DFVW in 1975 with a VW Variant Body shell. The car still exist and have been restored with the 1973 look (without the long tail which was the 1972 body style)

LM2 is T380 HU01 ran by De Cadenet at Le mans in 75 with a nearly standart body work (number 4) and then modified in 76 to run Le Mans (number 12); the car had a bulb nose.
In 77, the car was sold to Dorset Racing, and enter Le Mans with a Alain De Cadenet entry. The Dorset fail to qualify (number 6). Tony Birchenough from the Dorset was at the wheel with Simon Philips.
In 78, the car was entered as a De Cadenet Lola T380 by Simon Philips. It was the Bat Car still with a bulb nose, with Martin raymond at the wheel.
In 79, the car was entered as a Lola T286 (!!!!!!) still with a bulb nose, by Fison Agricole - Simon Phillip.
The car was then sold and is now in Scandinavia private collection.

LM3 is believed to be ADC77/01 built by Alain De Cadenet with Lola corners
It appears in Le Mans as number 5 in 1977.
In 78, three cas was entered, so one of them was a new one (LM2, LM3 and the new LM4).
LM2 was the Bat Car.
LM3 and LM4 was entered by Alain De Cadenet himself (only because of ACO regulation)
Number 8 for him and Craft (ACO said De Cadenet Lola T380 !, ADC said De Cadenet Lola 76/77 !) This car was the new LM4 also call ADC 78/01
Number 9 for Cooper Lovett Evans (ACO said De Cadenet Lola LM ! ADC said De Cadenet Lola 75/77) who fail to qualify was LM3.

In 1979, also three cars :
LM2 was the Fisons car (number 15)
John Cooper Racing entered a Lola T281 SG (number 3) for him and Lovett and Morrison. The car was white with a big red cross. This car was LM3.
T281 does not exist as a Lola, SG mean St Georges ? (ACO guys are stupid !)
We thing, according to John Morrison, that LM3 was not part of the "official" De Cadenet team.
Alain entered the number 8 as De Cadenet LM and it was LM4


In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 and it was LM4
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. It was LM3.
This car according to the ACO scruteneening form is De Cadenet SLG 781 and was built in 1978; http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?i...to066ooit4.jpg
So the mystery is a bout the significant of SLG 781 (we have already a mysterious GLC 913 !)
S ?
L for Lola or Len
G still for Gordon ?
Or it is a Thompson reference ?
The previous year the car was entered as Lola SG 281 and i think the ACO made a mistake in 1979 (the 2, was only on typewriter paper !).
78 for the year and 1 for the first chassis ?


In 1981 : two cars
Alain entered the number 20 with Belga livery (Murry Smith , the team manager for the car (?) ) said it was a car from 78 named De Cadenet LM, ACO also it’s a De Cadenet LM !) The car had a 3300 DFV for testing only. This car was LM4. This car was purchased in 1985 by "pinguino" who ran it in some event, and then sold it to Martin Biranne. Everybody saw it at Le Mans Classic 2006, with a chassis dataplate GLC 913.
The mystery is now only about this chassis plate :
G for Gordon Murray ?
L for Len Bailey or Lola (Lola suspension)?
C for Cadenet ?
913 (what is this number for ?)
I think this car is LM4 or ADC78/01. That means that Alain used the new car back in 1978 !

Dorset Racing bought LM3 from Nick Faure and entered it as number 21 for Faure, Candy, Birranne. The car had a 3000 DFV and was De Cadenet LM for ACO ! This car was Number 23 in DRM Zolder 1982. Dorset Racing sold it to Ray Mallock and the car became the first Ecosse Group C . Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain. The car was totally destroyed in a crash. The original body of LM3 car was put on a T390 chassis and displayed at the Rosso Bianco Museum. Driftwwod bought the chassis and he is now the proud owaner of a true De Cadenet body ! (thanks to him)


We are sure is that there is only two De Cadenet still existing :
The LM1 Duckams and LM4 the Martin Birrane’s car (GLC 913)
Also it exist LM2 (the Lola T380 HU01) somewhere in Scandinavia.


About the ADA Minor :
The car is believed built by Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact. The car seems to be know destroyed after a polish guy fit a Porsche engines and a Mazda engines in it. He crashed the car.

Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)

The pictures and this story has been updated by Lolafan on his website
http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory/

In 1978 : 3 entry LM2 bat Car, LM3 Cooper, LM4 De cadenet
In 1979 : 3 entries LM2 Fisons, LM3 Cooper (Morrison) , LM 4 De Cadenet

Is that an update to your last post? I can't see the changes.

As I've said before, your story clashes with the account in Briggs. Also, could you provide the sources for some of your assertions? For example you say that the 1981 #20 was 'LM4' and that 'LM3' was sold to Dorset Racing for 1977 but don't say how you have established these facts.

I have in front of me Autosport's previews and reports from the 1977 and 1978 Le Mans. Do you have access to these?

Allen

For example: Autosport 8 Jun 1978 p45: "The 1977 De Cadenet Lola is now owned by Peter Lovett and prepared to the latest specs".

It is a repost without modification.

I know how things goes in Le Mans :
If you enter a car, you can give the car, the name you want !
Many example thru years, include Lola MG for Highcroft racing and MG Lola for official car despite the Highcroft racing Lola MG had a chassis number from MG !

The Eagle was a Corvette built by Lola

The ACR was a Lola chassis

In 76, it was a Alpine Renault AND in 77 a Renault Alpine

In 1980, Rondeau do not win Le Mans because the car was officially on the Entry list registred as an ITT-Oceanic !

So what i mean, is that, if the guy who entered LM2 was in good terms with Alain, he entered as a de Cadenet, if he was not he entered as a Lola (the Fisons car according to the entry list an official ACO paper was not a De Cadenet, despite the fact that ADC entered the car in 1976 as a De Cadenet !

LM3 was entered as a De Cadenet in 77 by AdC and in 78 as a de Cadenet Numer 9 (DNQ Cooper Lovett Car), but in 79 THE SAME car (because of the driver Lovett !) was a Lola 281 SG (because i think, Cooper or Lovett do not want to refer as De Cadenet ! because some trouble maybe with De Cadenet as Morrison, the third driver, told us in a previous post ! Just have a look of the official paper of the entry http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067&page=5

Sorry for them, but do not trust the magazine, because at this time they have been more interested to the race and not to the Chassis number !

No journalist was interested at this time by DNQ cars ! Nobody want to read a story about a looser, in a preview or a report of the race.
That is why now it is difficult for "historian".

It was Knight Hawk Racing for Lola MG ! so sorry

I worked for de Cadenet in the two months leading up to and during the race in 1976 and 1977. Fellow New Zealander John Anderson worked full time for de Cadenet and did most of the development of the cars, I arrived in time to bolt it all together!
Vintage car restorers Dick Crosthwaite and John Gardiner were also on the team during the week in France.
From photographs I have, the 1976 car in Tait and Lyle/ Hammond Sauce livery carried race no 12.The car ran without any major incidents and finished 3rd over all. The car was a modified Lola with redesigned bodywork using an elderly Nicholson built DFV.
The 1977 car carrying race no 5 was a new car still using quite a lot of Lola components with a newly built body which had been tested in the MIRA wind tunnel. Using the same DFV but to full Grand Prix spec and with more time for testing it was a far better car. Unfortunately Chris Craft was the first competetor to discover it was raining on the infield section just on dawn and hit the wall. Repairs took the best part of an hour and the car finished 5th but only minutes away from 3rd.
de Cadenet may have received scant notice in the French press but he attracted an enormous amount of English press, especially the Daily Mail due to his oversize Union Jack signage.
If you look closely at the flags you will see 4 little stars attached being the New Zealand flag!

Thank a lot to Howard Wood who confirm a big part of the story for 76 and 77
76 was LM2
77 was LM3

so finally
LM2 3 4 practised for 1978 race LM3 DNQ
79 LM 2 3 4 raced under different titles

Yes Driftwood, i think that now we have a correct story.
Now the only thing to know is :
What became LM2 between 1979 and Scandinavia !
What mean SLG 781 for LM3 which is also known as ADC 77/01 and who really owned the car after De Cadenet sold it (Dorset, Cooper, Lovett ? and who sold it to ray mallock who made the Ecosse GC284 with some component of LM3 (i think it is some one from Dorset...)

What mean GLC 913 for LM4 also known as ADC78/01 ...

Thanks for everyone who could help !

Dear AMICALEMANS

Where are you getting these numbers LM2 and LM3 from? Are they on the entry forms? Or in some other documentation? You tell us not to trust the journalists so who should we trust? Only you?

Some notes by 'untrustworthy' journalists:

Autosport 16 Jun 1977 p11: "last year's de Cadenet Lola ... which Simon Phillips would share with ... Tony Birchenough".

Autosport 15 Jun 1978 p15: "The 1976 De Cadenet Lola was decorated in the colours of BATCO; owner Simon Philips ... was with Nick Faure and John Beasley".

Autosport 15 Jun 1978 p15: "De Cadenet's 1977 Lola was in the hands of John Cooper/Pete Lovett".

Autosport 19 Jun 1980 p11: "Nick Faure is now the owner of former John Cooper/Pete Lovett car which was built in 1976 [sic]. Since Faure bought it three months ago, the car has been completely refurbished by his K&K organisation".

Autosport Le Mans Yearbook 1981 p7: "The older model which has passed into the ownership of Tony Birchenough".

???? So sorry mister Allenbrown !
I told before that I SAW GLC913 plate on the Belga car (LM4) at Le Mans Classic 2006, and even Martin Birranne who own the car do not know about it.

SLG 781 is a number on the ACO entry form (see previous links i gave to see the pic of this entry form on the Motorlegend Forum)

I respect journalist (i was one !) but not for the precision like chassi number especially 25 years ago !

"Autosport 16 Jun 1977 p11: "last year's de Cadenet Lola ... which Simon Phillips would share with ... Tony Birchenough". THAT'S CORRECT LM2 DNQ

Autosport 15 Jun 1978 p15: "The 1976 De Cadenet Lola was decorated in the colours of BATCO; owner Simon Philips ... was with Nick Faure and John Beasley". THATS CORRECT LM2

Autosport 15 Jun 1978 p15: "De Cadenet's 1977 Lola was in the hands of John Cooper/Pete Lovett". THAT IS CORRECT BUT IT WAS NOT A LOLA, IT WAS A DECADENET LM3

Autosport 19 Jun 1980 p11: "Nick Faure is now the owner of former John Cooper/Pete Lovett car which was built in 1976 [sic]THAT IS NOT CORRECT BECAUSE IT IS LM3 AND NOT THE LOLA T380 (LM2). Since Faure bought it three months ago, the car has been completely refurbished by his K&K organisation".

Autosport Le Mans Yearbook 1981 p7: "The older model which has passed into the ownership of Tony Birchenough". THAT IS CORRECT IT WAS A DE CADENET LM3 AND DNQ (OLDER MEANS 1980) (THE BODY BELONGS NOW TO DRIFTWOOD !)

It will be more helpful if all journalists at that time wrote about Chassis Number. Why they did not do it ?

Best regards

LM was the designation for De Cadenet's cars (except in 1975, it was T380 LM ! because it was a Lola)
So we spoke about LM and we add a number for better understanding.
I admit that the number is not an official designation.

Allen do u not accept the LM2 3 4 cars are now accounted for?
LM2 is sold to Dorset for 1977 then sold to Phillips runs 1 year as BatCo car in 78 and Fisons livery as T286 for 79this car is Lola T380 hu1

Cooper bought LM3 from De Cad for 78 LM and DNQthompson chassis lola uprights
79 is entered as SG Lola
then its sold to Dorset for 80 LM and races 6 hrs at Brands in 81
sold to RML in 83? to create Ecosse car for 84

De Cad runs LM4 in 78 79 80 81 races LM and WCM eventsanother thompson built chassis probably using lola uprights and the same body shape as LM3 then sold to the Martin Bros in belgium then to Colin pool raced thundersportsand now that car is now with Martin B in Belga livery as it last raced

I sent u fotos of the LM3 in BRG for Cooper @78 LM ( car no 6 ) and 79 livery is st georges cross livery

MK has said the 80 81 ACR for Cevally is reported as being a Lola T380
could this be the Fisons car for 80/81 LM with Chevallys own body kit ( note the fotos T380 nose cone in the foto i sent to u maybe u can post them all here?- yes its beyond me!!)

will call Chris ADA and Tony B tomorrow to clarify some car info

For the ACR, I am sure (we spoke with Chevalley, so it is better than a journalist !) he built the car on his Lola T286 HU07 which he race Le Mans in 1979 ! This car is now a Lola (this car ran in 2006 at Le Mans Classic)

So LM2, LM3 and LM4 are invented numbers?

I'm happy if they are, but we need to remember that they are invented and not start believing they are real. I would prefer to call the three cars De Cadenet Lola 76, De Cadenet LM 77 and De Cadenet LM 78.

I'm comfortable with the histories. They look solid and they explain almost everything. The problem is Briggs' report that the Ecosse was built on a Thompson tub marked ADC78/1. If these histories are right, that tub should have been the 1977 car. So that aspect of the histories may turn out to be wrong.

For the ACR, I am sure (we spoke with Chevalley, so it is better than a journalist !) he built the car on his Lola T286 HU07 which he race Le Mans in 1979 ! This car is now a Lola (this car ran in 2006 at Le Mans Classic)That agrees with what Autosport said about the car at Monza 1980.

Allen

LM 77 and LM 78 was not also officilal ! Please go and see the ACO Entry form...

Is it possible that : In 78, AdC ran with LM3 ADC77/01 and keep this car for him until 1981 (or swap it with LM4 each year !) In that case LM4 ADC 78/01 was built for customers...So the Martin Belga car, in that case is LM3.

Please go to http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067
Even with a poor french language, you wll be able to identify pics about the entry form (on this Forum, my nickname is MUSTANG66)

Allen i sent u the fotos of the Cooper LM3 car from 78 LM i took it from the site as mentioned
http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067

why not accept the defintions LM1 2 3 4 for De cads cars it makes sense
LM1 is Duckhams BT33 based car cum DFVW now back as Duckhams car
LM2 is Lola T380 hu1 cum Lola T286 ( fisons )
LM3 is ADC /77/1 ( thompson chassis lola corners) cum SG Lola ( 78 LM cooper car) later chassis is modelled into Ecosse GC284 ( now written off)
LM4 is ADC/78/1 (Thompson chassis poss lola corners) cum GLC 913

ACR Lola ok i accept as Lola T286 hu7 car remodelled bodywork with T380 nose ACR rear body now reinstated as Lola T286 car

I don't like making up numbers for cars that didn't have numbers. This has happened in F1 research and has later caused problems. The F1R Register invented P numbers for Parnell-built Lotus 24s but made it completely clear they were inventions and that worked well. The numbers Thomson invented for the LDSs worked a lot less well as it wasn't so clear they were invented and owners started putting them on false chassis plates. Then Lawrence came up with a different set of numbers and live got much worse. People now argue about who has LDS 06 and who has LDS 07, completely forgetting that these numbers were a 1970s invention.

I know LM 77 and LM 78 weren't official but the magazine coverage makes it quite clear than one car was built new for 1977 and another car was new for 1978 so all I'm doing is adding the year on the end so we know what we're talking about. My Indy records use this notation extensively (Eagle 68, Huffaker 64, Gerhardt 65, etc) as it allows a model of car to be identified without having to invent anything. The Eagle T1F and T1G notation used widely in F1 history books was an invention. Eagle never referred to a model but probably regarded the car as the Mk 1. The 1967 Indy Eagle, for example, was numbered as if it was the Mk 3 but never called the Mk 3 so I just call it the Eagle 67.

If we use LM2, LM3 and LM4, we are making the assumption that there was no car in between the 77 and the 78. What if one day we find that there was? Maybe due to an accident to the original 77 car? Would we call it LM3-and-a-half? If these numbers were used by the team, officially or even informally, then they'd be fine to use. But I don't see that they were.

Anyway, sorry for the long lecture. I'm watching the Superbowl and it's not really holding my attention. :)

Allen

I take your point however LM 1234 does make sense and have they not been referred to these alongthe way?
calling the cars T380 hu1 the adc 77 adc 78 etc is misleading especially when
LM2 is entered later as Lola t286 lm3 is entered as SG lola etc
and even De cad & ACO where changing the names

im confident that we could call cars LM1234 and with the cars references alongside we will know what the car was in a given year ie LM3 is 1 car =ADC77/1 SG Lola or SG lola 381 is same car
LM1 is the BT33 based car
LM2 is T380 car cum T286
LM3 is ADC 77/1 cum SG Lola/SG Lola T381
LM4 is ADC 78/1 cum GLC 913
I think most guys would be happy to follow cars as De Cadenet LM1-4 as it cuts out the messy later owners titles that skew the cars true ID
you said
If we use LM2, LM3 and LM4, we are making the assumption that there was no car in between the 77 and the 78. i think thats fair to say its true no cars crashed to write off stateWhat if one day we find that there was? ok assume 1 car is badly crashed we could call it say LM3-2Maybe due to an accident to the original 77 car? Would we call it LM3-and-a-half? If these numbers were used by the team, officially or even informally, then they'd be fine to use. But I don't see that they were.
I'm watching the Superbowl and it's not really holding my attention now your leading a sad life thats a game of Rugby crossed with ozzie rules footie the yanks call Football -10 yards stop 5 yards stop 10 yards stop rather watch paint dry!:rofl:

Any news from people who now more than us, dear Driftwood ?

i have been away a few days not had time to call the guys will try this tomorrow or friday

:rotate: i know i know now why 913 !!! It was the number of the Cosworth Engines
So
G for Gordon
L for Len
C for Cosworth

GLC 913 !

So know for LM3, SLG 781 ? 781 a cosworth ? who kows about these engines number...

very high number for a cosworth

I spent 7 hours at Retromobile today and bought a Brookland Books "Le Mans The Porsche Years 1975-1982" Its is race report from Autosport, Autocar, Motorsport, R&t and there is an interview of Keith Green in AUTOSPORT June 24 1976.

Question : What is this about the Cosworth DFV being of tremendous vintage, the engine Bruce McLaren used to win the 1968 belgian GP ?

Answer : It's engine number 913, the same block and crank that we ran last year and seven of the rods are the same (sorry there is 50 lines to copy ! and i am tired) He said also alain own also the 934...

Goodnight

Drifty, 913 means a 1969 engine, the 13th to be built in total. The first DFV was 701, not 001.

781 would not be a DFV number. They didn't build 81 engines in 1967!

Mister Allen Brown, you are a great man ! Thanks a lot for your explanation !

So for LM3 the problem is now why SG lola 781 in 1979
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo067wz7.jpg
or SLG 781 in 1980
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=photo066ooit4.jpg

Thanks for dfv number info as i cant affiord 1 never taken much interest in them!

Spoke to Chris ADA re the car he had built allegedly around T290 lola
The tub was the lola T390 tub used as a show car he used T380 suspension he bought from De Cad & he made his own body
The car was written off by the Polish driver circa 87?

The LM4 De cad car was LolaT280 uprights bellhousing
the LM3 car was T380 suspension ( this car became the Ecosse written off at Brands? ) on the Thompson chassis

Great find Driftwood, thanks.;)

But my english is poor, what means "uprights bellhousing" ?

Upright= port moyeux;)
bellhousing - engine to gearbox spacer:p

forgot to say i now know where T380 Hu1 &2 are !!

They sleep next to each other

THX for the translation !
Are both T380 in scandinavia ? it is cold at this place, that is why i presume the two cars sleep next to each other ! :laugh:

Allen, i got a problem with the 913, just because in the contemporary report of the race in Autosport, i read an interview of keith green by bob constanduros, who asked if the engines is the one which won the Belgium GP at SPA in 1968, with Bruce McLaren ! did you heard about that ?
It should be 813 ???

813 would have become 913 when updated to 1969 spec.

Hello,

i have just finshed to wrote 7 pages (in french) about De Cadenet's car. i should now translate it in english. The story seems to be clear now, only mystery are about GLC 913 and SLG 781. But, i have a doubt about Colin Pool said to us : he said he bought LM4, and ran the car in some events. I found these events, but the car was named ADA !!!. So i am looking for picture...
Colin Poole (Pinguino) is still reading this thread ?

Thanks to him to answer.

have just finshed to wrote 7 pages (in french) about De Cadenet's car. i should now translate it in english. The story seems to be clear now, only mystery are about GLC 913 and SLG 781.the car is 1 car its title is not important i think the name was given just to fillout the ACO paper so it appeared to be adiffeent car from the year before as we know the cars are lolat380 then same car with modified body them thompson chassis car with lola t380 corners then next car is thompson chassis with t280 corners

But, i have a doubt about Colin Pool said to us : he said he bought LM4, and ran the car in some events. I found these events, but the car was named ADA !!!. the car was NEVER ADA car- the ad01 car was different car lola t390 tub with t 380 corners a bubble roof was fitted- car may look similar but it was a totally different car to de cad cars
So i am looking for picture...
Colin Poole (Pinguino) is still reading this thread he told me the car was sold to Martin Birrane and he bought direct form De cad the car had t280 bellhousing and uprights NOT t380 parts- they where used on t380 car LM2 and LM3- this car became the Ecosse 84 car now destroyed as is the ADA01 group c car so today Lola t380 hu1 exist and LM4 car

Yes Driftwood, i know about all things you wrote in red (it reminds me an old german teacher i got when i was young :p )

But in his thread, Colin told us he entered twice the car in Thundersport events (Thruxton and Brands) on the link, drivers are correct, but LM4 was named ADA entered by ADA engineering !
http://wspr-racing.com/wspr/results/thunder/thunder1985.html

Is Thundersports rules more tricky than ACO rules ? It is true that ACO accept that an entrant rename his car (Autoexe for an Riley Scott or a WR for example). So in Thruxton and Brands in 85, it was a De Cadenet LM4, ranning under the name of ADA 01 ! I will be pleased if anyone got some pictures !

I am not sure about what you said below(in fact GLC 913 was unknown by ACO for LM4)
"its title is not important i think the name was given just to fillout the ACO paper so it appeared to be adiffeent car from the year before"
i think they change the name of car in 1979 for political reason because of A de Cadenet. I remind you that Alain was well appreciate by ACO, but perhaps, as John Morrisson said, Simon Phillips was maybe in trouble with Alain !

Driftwood, i really appreciate to "speak" with you. I hope to see you with Allen, at Le Mans in june !

Yes Driftwood, i know about all things you wrote in red (it reminds me an old german teacher i got when i was young )

But in his thread, Colin told us he entered twice the car in Thundersport events (Thruxton and Brands) on the link, drivers are correct, but LM4 was named ADA entered by ADA engineering !ADA prepared the car for him to do the races not make new car or modify it to recreate car
http://wspr-racing.com/wspr/results/...under1985.html

Is Thundersports rules more tricky than ACO rules ?no it was Formule libre for sports cars It is true that ACO accept that an entrant rename his car (Autoexe for an Riley Scott or a WR for example). So in Thruxton and Brands in 85, it was a De Cadenet LM4, ranning under the name of ADA 01 ! I will be pleased if anyone got some pictures !ADA01 is a totally different car

I am not sure about what you said below(in fact GLC 913 was unknown by ACO for LM4)
"its title is not important i think the name was given just to fillout the ACO paper so it appeared to be adiffeent car from the year before" yes that would be the idea
i think they change the name of car in 1979 for political reason because of A de Cadenet. I remind you that Alain was well appreciate by ACO, but perhaps, as John Morrisson said, Simon Phillips was maybe in trouble with Alain !maybe they tought they do not want to be asocoaited with him especially if they had "problems" wiht A deC !!??;)

Driftwood, i really appreciate to "speak" with you. I hope to see you with Allen, at Le Mans in june !i have not been to any LM races maybe i can go to the classic event

Is Thundersports rules more tricky than ACO rules ?no it was Formule libre for sports cars It is true that ACO accept that an entrant rename his car (Autoexe for an Riley Scott or a WR for example). So in Thruxton and Brands in 85, it was a De Cadenet LM4, ranning under the name of ADA 01 ! I will be pleased if anyone got some pictures !ADA01 is a totally different car I know my dear ! ok wspr, saw ADA on a paper and they said that it is 01 (the minor) but in fact it is LM4 De Cadenet.

So now i will try to find the chassis number of the Loch Ness monster (lol)

I just repeat for all readers, any pics of this car in Thruxton or Brands ?
Now i will go skiing, so see you next week !

Good night Driftwood and many thanks

www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Brands_Hatch-1984-07-22-photo.html

foto here of the ADA 01 car IT IS NOT the de cad LM4 car

Autosport advert 2 October 1980
foro sale The De cadanet Le mans car is for sale
as used at LM 78 79 & 80
Canam 78 2nd silverstone 1979
coamplete car less engine £18k DFV @ £8k each
(thats a lot of money in 1980) at least 2 houses worth here maybe 3

Im guessing this car is LM4

Now that is very useful indeed.

I happened upon it by chance:rotate:
have y seen the foto it has FUS sponsor so i guess he sold the car to Martin Bros to run in Belga livery for the 81 season

i know colin pool said he bought the car from Alain directly in 83? ish

LM3 was with Morris in 7-80 and then Dorset racing for 81 season
later i will sift thru some more adverts
often more interesting than reading the race results!:cool:
Maybe u need to take me out some more
3 pints guinness and a curry will do for starters:rofl:

DW, quite agree re AS adverts, v interesting at the time I found, even more so now !!!

What i think :

At the end of 1980, AdC was in discussion for the C100 program (design len bailey) and Ford told him that he will be choosen to run the C100. So he put the ads to sold LM4. But for political reason, the C100 program went to Zakspeed (a kind of battle between Ford UK and Ford Germany, and germany won just because the Ford motorsport manager was Michael Kranefuss, a german guy !) . The C100 was not readyuntil July 81 (delivery to Zakspeed). So i think that AdC do not sold LM4 and he rented it to Martin Bros for Le Mans 1981. I read somewhere, in english, that he "sold" it only for the race !

Glyn Parham will send me pictures from Brands and Thruxton 85 thundersport series, where Colin Poole "pinguino" entered LM4 in red livery as he said in a previous post. The car was entered as ADA 01 !!!! But i still believe it was LM4.

I am speaking about 1985, not 1984....

I read also on a report from Le Mans 1978 that LM4 has a longer wheelbase (some centimetres) than LM3. It was a preview of the race by Bob Constanduros.

So i hope that the pics from Glyn Parham (brands and Thruxton thundersports 85) will show a red open two seaters De Cadenet, so it will prove that it is LM4 as Colin Poole said, entered with an ADA name for unknown reason. Is Colin Poole, an old fellow from ADA Enginnering ?

It's Pool, not Poole.

oK for Pool !

just have a look to this link :
http://www.classicscars.com/wspr/results/thunder/thunder1985.html

Same drivers as Colin Pool said in a previous post ! Confusing is'nt it !

I think the car entered for sam clepps is the true ADA 01 car NOT the LM4 de cad
Colin pool is entered in Chevron
if you look at photos on racing sports car site u can see many car photos

Colin had his own team Plumtree racing but i do not know who the spanner men where- his own or rented services
ADA had a race shop in west London so it is possible that Colin could have used their services to prepare the car as he lived in London
I will ask him

Was thundersports regulation accept cars with a roof ? I doubt !

We will see (i hope) with the pics from Glyn !

Thundersports was Libre racing for ANY sports car

Agreed and wan't it great!!! The entries and results on that site are just superb aren't they.

Still waiting for pics of Thundersports 85 with the red LM4.
But, you will find below a great find of Fausto (from aerogi forum) which show the "Morris Minor" with a Porsche engines and then with a Mazda RX7 engines !:laugh: I had never seen these pics before !

http://jefra.blog.siol.net/fotogalerija/

Is the driver featured Francy Jerancic? If so thats a v interesting pic of the ADA, also the Chevron FSV, a very rare B50 possibly.

Yes the driver is Francy Jerancic.
I dont know what is the other car :
Mister Fausto wrote on aerogi " the first pic of the ADA/Lola is of the version pictured on Autosport advertisment (still remember the livery)...OT the Audi is possibly the one raced by Stirling Moss in UK (early 80s), or by his team mate (and owner) Richard Lloyd...and FJ still in his 50s.... "

So sorry but Glyn did not find any picture of LM4, entered by Colin Pool and ADA ranning at Thruxton an Brands in 85 during a Thundersports event, so we know only that the car was red...

Yes the driver is Francy Jerancic.
I dont know what is the other car :

"

which one?

REFERENCE THIS COMMENT SEE WEBSITE
http://jefra.blog.siol.net/fotogalerija/

Is the driver featured Francy Jerancic? If so thats a v interesting pic of the ADA, also the Chevron FSV, a very rare B50 possibly.

Hi Roman

Glad you're back. Can you help with this (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1863045#post1863045)?

Allen

jus the lovely car near the uly "lola ada with RX7 engines"; i dont know which car it is. thanks for help !

jus the lovely car near the uly "lola ada with RX7 engines"; i dont know which car it is. thanks for help !

It's the Sturtz SM 288C:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1989/Norisring-1989-06-25-071.jpg, a car later seen racing in USA/WSC: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1996/Lime_Rock-1996-05-27-011.jpg

hello,
Just to let you know that i have completed the De Cadenet in Le Mans story
here http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067&page=12

I know it is in french... BUT there is that for understanding
http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=decadfe6.jpg

beware there is a mistake for 1974, It is Craft and Nicholson at the wheel

I have just returned form the Hysterical race car show (Race Retro - Stoneleigh Park -JT)and I bought the Ecurie Ecosse story for 3 photos! The Ecosse c2 car is written about and the car photos as it crashed and after!! Now I will sit and read this section of the book!

I also met man who has Lola T380 HU1 car
30 minutes earlier I bought 30 photos of Lola t290 92 280 390 cars PLUS De Cads LM3 4 and T380, so when I spoke to the T380 HU1 owner I showed the photos to discuss the cars. He said hu1 has been in Scandanavia since 1980 with 1 owner. Then he bought the car maybe 10-15 years ago. Later in the year I plan to go and see the car.

I also spoke with body shop who made the De Cad body; he confirmed he made body and has the moulds

Just to let you know that i have completed the De Cadenet in Le Mans story
here http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/sho...=27067&page=12

I know it is in french... BUT there is that for understanding

Merde we speak only english here! 2 beers and a croc monsieur ,monsieur is all most Ros Boef can manage!! :rofl:

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=decadfe6.jpg
Beware there is a mistake for 1974, It is Craft and Nicholson at the wheel.

Also the DFVW car was 1975 till 1984!

:p :rofl: If you are very kind with me i will translate the text, sir !

Yes you are right for the DFVW, i dont know really when they restore it with Duckhams livery. i will correct all that for the english people only !

But please remember that De Cadenet family was coming from France, like Guillauma le Conquerant :rofl:

If you are very kind with me i will translate the text, sir !
I will be gentle with you :woot:

Yes you are right for the DFVW, i dont know really when they restore it with Duckhams livery.
I will correct all that for the english people only !

But please remember that De Cadenet family was coming from France, like Guillauma le Conquerant
We are told this at school - :rofl: 1066 was the day Rost bif had to speak french:rofl:

- Drifty, I'm not your unpaid secretary! ;)

But please remember that De Cadenet family was coming from France, like Guillauma le Conquerant :rofl:Point of order, Mr Moderator.

Guillaume le Bâtard, duc de Normandie, may have been born in what is now France but it was then a fiercely independent Duchy and his father's family came from the Norse countries. William spent much of his live fighting against the French.

I agree but "HONNI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE" that's a french sentence that all "rosbeef" understand i think :rofl: ; so you should learn some french before i translate the De Cad Story.:p

So sorry Mr Moderator , i am kidding...

Ros biff where successful at Agincourt and you guys so easily could have been speaking English if it was not for Joan of Arc:laugh:

However I look forward to reading your full report in English as it will be useful for our american australian NZ ZA readers as well:p

I have just called Ray Mallock to ask if the chassis is still in the yard from the Ecosse/ De cadanet
He said its now long gone
The engine gearbox rear end was used on Henry the 2nd Ecosse so the De cad ADC77 car is still around albeit it in a different form

hi everybody...

So sorry, but i have no time to translate in english the text about De Cadenet at Le Mans (this text was given into the press room at Le Mans !)
and you can read it in french here :
http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067&page=11


But i know that Alain De Cadenet is reading it "in french" because his father was... FRENCH ! so now i am just waiting for any reaction (if he want to react ! and that is not sure !)

I have just come across this web page, and there is a picture of the LM1 taken in 74.

Across the front there is a number plate, VLA 451M, anyne know why?

http://photos24hlemans.free.fr/galeries/picture.php?cat=113&image_id=1775

I read somewhere that De Cadenet sometime tested his car speed on the Msomething, so the number plate could have something to do with speed testing on public road...

:D

The number was also on LM2 (the T380 Lola) !

True story about the testing. I didn't work for deCadenet at the time but have been told that in an effort to try something out the car was indeed run at high speed between two motorway juntions early one morning, I think with Keith Greene driving. The transit van and trailer were parked at the exit ready for a quick getaway from the scene! Not related in any way to being road registered.

I knew about the M5 story...
Wwe know that LM1 (in 74) and LM2 (the Lola in 75 and 76) had the VLA 451 M license plate.

Maybe, just to get out of the island of great britain with some papers, for custom just to proove that it is a temporary export... it was a small team so, maybe it was the cheapest and the speedest way to get the car out of the island....
or something like that...

I found this : http://flickr.com/photos/bossmustanguk/1365857810/

In Goodwood revival 2007, was it LM2 (the Lola T380) ? or a fake ?

Drifty, i am sure you know about that !

real car

;) OK thank you ! who drove it during the event ? and who own it !
Ia m glad to see it. That make 75% De Cadenet still living !
LM1, LM2 and LM4 !

LM3 body lives!!
suspension engine gearbox live sin Ecosse C2 car
owner drove the car at the event

I knew about LM3 !

Could you please give us the name of the owner-driver !

and have a look in your mailbox

Concerning the reason for the 1975 T380 carrying road registration, Amica Le Mans is pretty much right.
According to the report of Le Mans in Motoring News it meant that the car didn't have to have carnet papers for re-export and so going across European borders was much speedier.

Chris

i wonder how it would work today with London congestion charging and failure to register the day you go into London
would DVLA have your records!!???

It is funny to see that the VLA 451M registration appears in 1974 on the LM1 car (G Murray design), on the LM2 in 75 and 76 (the T380).
Was or is it common to keep the registration and change the car in UK ?

Just to say, that it exist a VHS video about Le Mans (with James Coburn speaking) where we could see De Cadenet performing a lap of the Le Mans track in 1975. It is an inboard view and the lap his amazing xwhen he overpass a Solex and a Citroen 2CV on the Mulsanne straight !!!!!

anybody knows about this movie ?

Does this fill any gaps?

Advertised from 0602 633206 (which my address book says was Malcolm Johnstone's number) in Autosport 17 Mar 1983 p73 (with a "Chevron B23 with B26 bodywork chassis no 9" and a "March 772 tub, engine frames bodywork, excellent order £575") was:

"Lola De Cadenet DFV, believed to be the ex-Duckham Ford Le Mans car driven by Chris Craft and Alain De Cadenet, as rolling chassis with FGA gearbox, requires bodywork, roll cage etc £3,250"

Presumably this is the car we've called LM1 above and by this time was the ex-Colin Hawker DFVW. That would explain the lack of bodywork. The "Lola" bit would be a mistake.

no sure ! it could be LM2 or LM4 ! LM3 became the first Ecosse...

Yes That Car Is Ex Hawker Niven Dfvw Variant Car Hence Roll Cage
No Its Not Lola It Was A Brabham Based Car!!