Mo Harness GRD Leabro 372

Hello
I'm about to restore a GRD 372 F3 and I'm also interested of the cars History

In 1973 it was raced in UK by Mo Harness

5'th at Cadwell park 10th of sept 1972 in a "GRD-Leabro 372"

It was sold to Jan Ridell in Sweden mid season 1973 who raced it in 1973.

Any recollection of Mo Harness?

Henrik

Yes! Mo Harness was a very quick driver who came up from the then usual FF route to enter F3 in 1972 with an old Brabham BT28 powered by a home built engine. He ran on a very small budget but despite that he was very competitive. He came from Spilsby in Lincolnshire, in England. Unfortunately, I don't recall why he didn't go any further than F3, although I guess lack of money must have had something to do with it. A lost talent, I think.

HH

According to the British magazine Motoring News, Harness' car went to Jac Nelleman early in 1973. He may have sold it on to Ridell. Do you have any more details on the history, 1973 on?

Also, does the car have a plate? From the date of its first appearance it can only be one of a few cars, but we don't have it noted anywhere in Adam Ferrington's excellent GRD records from the time. At a guess it would be chassis 31.

I've got most of the results for the car in 1972 backed up in a hard drive somewhere, and will dig them out for you

chris

Hello
Yes it's #10
The owner made some research and It is said that Ridell bought the car from Mo in 1973 equiped with a Vegatune 1600
Ridell raced it during 73
For 1974 the car was sent to GRD to be updated to 2000cc spec he didn´t get the car back until mid season -74 and did 4-5 races
He built his own BMW engine for it for 1975
He sold the car mid season -76 to Dikberg wo cxrashed it in -77 then sold on whitout engine.
The car now has a new monocouqe.


Ch #18 Bengt Gilhorn car sold new by Wendels
Ch #47 Hasse Wengstre sold new by Wendels
Ch #48 Anders Olofsson
Ch #49 Raced in period by Håkan Alrikson car might be in Norway

#10 and #18 is 1972
#47, #48 and #49 is 1973

Henrik

HH.

That it's 10 is rather interesting. It seems that GRD series began at 010 and if so, this was the original 1972 car raced by Sutcliffe and then became the team spare in early 72. So at some point in mid season it got sold to Harness rather than him buying a new car. This fits with what Dan says about his finances.

I think the first three cars are
010: F3 prototype raced late 72 by Sutcliffe then works early to mid 73
011: FB/F2 prototype raced in US by McConnell, taken to Tasman and then back to UK. Maybe taken to Canada by McConnell in 73.
012: First customer car for Martin Watson, UK F.Atlantic - see GRD thread elsewhere on this forum

BUT: I'm going to have to go and check when Harness first appears in the car, because it got rented out by the works as late as August when according to Autosport Roger Williamson used it after crashing the Wheatcroft car at Oulton, and he also used it at Silverstone in May.

It may be that there is some March style plate switching going on here. If not, you've got a car with a great history.

Also, what is the source of your other chassis numbers?
Was Wengstre an entrant rather than a driver, because we have a contemporary record for 047 as driven by Ingvar Carlsson in 73.
Same record notes 048 as Gunnar Nordstrom, but I agree car goes to Olofsson for the 1975 season.

018 is the problem, because F1 Register [admittedly unreliable] gives this as a F2 car raced by Claude Bourgoignie

Chris

Very Interesting!

Chris,

I agree that we should assume (at this stage) that Bourgoignie's F2 car was 018 per F1R. I saw this car at the last Crystal Palace F2 in 72, and I must have read 018 as 010 (easily done!). As its first appearance wasn't until 72 this probably fits.

This would make 010 a GRD works F3 "hack" used by various drivers until allocated to Harness in July 72 (his first appearance was at Brands on 14/7). I'm sure my association of this car with Nellemann would be from a contemporary "bit" in either MN or Autosport, as Nellemann didn't visit the UK in 73 with the car, so I couldn't have seen it.

re. 011 - As you know my records show this as the original F3 car used by Sutcliffe in 71 at Brands and Lydden and then used by Sutcliffe and Williamson. I saw this car at Oulton several times.

As we now know, 012 was Watson's Atlantic car - as you say the first customer car.

Adam

My source for Nelleman is probably the same as yours here! I'll look it up in my 1973 notebook tonight, but I think it's MN.

My point about plate switching concerned the Bourgoignie car, because at one point F1R have it as 010 too! But we know that to have been the plate on Sutcliffe's car that became the hack. However, if 010 goes to Harness in July, what does Williamson drive at Oulton in August? AS thinks it's the hack car he used at Silverstone [from my memory of reading the report a couple of months ago]. Is there another spare car for GRS.
For cars that appeared in 1972 there are only six numbers in the series missing. [Assuming Smythe's 036 which doesn't appear till October to be the last one of the racing season, and all the others appear well before that]
We don't know the numbers of

Hans Peter Hoffmann
Rolf Zumstein
Bengt Gilhorn [18 suspect?]
GRS car for Keichi Tahara
Wheatcroft for Williamson
David McConnell's new car for 1972 [if it wasn't 011 rebuilt]
Sutcliffe's replacement for 010 as regular car
A spare car replacing 010 as hack
8 cars

These are the missing numbers
13 maybe not built
17
19
27
28
29
31
32 appears spring 73 with Larry Perkins so there must be a press comment somewhere about its source.

Also, the GRS car 030 which appears in September for Ian Taylor and Barry Maskell must have an earlier life in someone's hands, given that 33 & 34 appear in July. Is this Sutcliffe's second car?
8 numbers available if 13 not built!

Chris

Re. the 73 F3 cars in Sweden.........

Yes, 047 was raced by Ingvar Carlsson for Hans Wangstre Racing. According to my records he kept it at least until 1975.

048 was raced by Nordstrom in 73 and 74 and by Anders Oloffsson in 75 (I saw it at the Silverstone BGP F3 in July 75).

Re. Alriksson, I have him appearing in a GRD (presumably the same car) in Sweden in 73 and At Nurburgring and Knutsdorp in 74 and 75.

Correction re. my previous post on the early 72 cars....Bourgoignie's car must remain a mystery if Harness's was 010 AND Gilhorn's was 018.

The mystery is Jan Ridell's 1973 F3 appearances. I don't have anything for him in my 73 records and neither do the F1 Register.
Henk, was he definitely a driver, and not just an entrant?

Henk, I will PM you what I have on Harness's car's UK appearances.

ADAM

I don't have Ridell in 73 either. He does appear in a GRD in 1974 entered by Autosport Cypressvaegen.

Chris

Chris,

Sorry - our postings crossed.

I'll study what programmes (with notes) I have from that time so that we can try to filter my actual observations from what I read in MN or Autosport. I'll see what I come up with.

ADAM

Hello
I'm just reading trough the map I borrowed for the car and There is a clip which presents Hasse Wengstres new F3 which Ingvar Carlsson is supposed to drive apperently this car was modified atumn 1974.
He was sponsored by Duckhams and He qualified 10th at Nürburgring and finished 8th.

The chassis numbers I quoted is from a phone call with SBF and take from old notes about who had registred for the Swedish F3 championchip

The Owner of #10 also have another GRD http://www.classicformula.se/Mantorpfinal2/images/6FNY040925-049_JPG.jpg

I believe he has some more input to the history.

Henrik

Chris,

From my contemporary notes in race programmes the is the following relating to 1972 cars :-

BH 23/10/71
Sutcliffe 372 011 (NOT 010!)

BH 22/10/72
Ginn 022
GRS/Gerber 024
Vermilio/Sc Italia 026
GRS/Maskell 030
Alan Jones 033
Robin Smythe 036

Silv 7/4/73
Perkins 032
Kuwashima 033

OP 20/4/73
Passadore 021
Ginn 022
Brise 035

OP 27/4/74
Hooper (F4) 034

Silv 19/7/75
Spreafico 023


From this, the F1R (for F2), what we've learned recently re. 010, 012 and 018, this is how I see the 1972 cars :-

10 372 ? GRS 1972, to Harness 1972, to Jan Ridell
11 372 GRS/Sutcliffe 1972,
12 372 Martin Watson
13 Assume not used
14 272 Saloman Switzerland
15 372 ?GRS/Sutcliffe 1972, GRS Passadore 1973
16 272 GRS/Various drivers
17 ?
18 372 Gilhorn 1972, ? Wallinger, Russell
19 ?
20 272 GRS/Ikuzawa 1972, McMaster 1973
21 372 GRS/Rousselot 1972,
22 372 Ginn
23 372 Scuderia Italia 1972
24 372 GRS/Pinhol 1972, Craven 1973
25 372 Reystan/Kuwashima 1972, Macdonald 1973
26 372 Scuderia Italia 1972
27 ?
28 ?
29 ?
30 372 GRS/Maskell/Taylor 1972, Stanton/Knight 1973, Rod Smith 1973
31 ?
32 372 ?GRS 1972, Perkins 1973
33 372 Alan Jones 1972, Kuwashima 1973
34 372 Tim Brise 1972, Gavin Hooper 1974
35 372 Tony Brise 1972, Brise spare 1973
36 372 Rbin Smythe 1972/73

There are at least 6 discrete cars not identified above :-
272 Dave McConnell's Tasman car
272 Dave McConnells FB car (these are more than likely to be one and the same)
372 Swiss F3 Vonlanthen
372 Swiss F3 Hoffmann
372 Williamson 1972, Moffatt 1973
272 Bourgoignie 1972 to 1974
S72 GRD Ikuzawa/Miles

This is very much just a hypothesis.........
One problem is that MCConnell's Tasman car must be an early chassis number, but which?

McConnell's Tasman car was 010, presumably the same car he had been using since the previous September.
I also have 014-F2 for Roland Binder in 1972 (in F2) and 020-F2 for Ikuzawa (in F3).
Were the 272s and 372s numbered in the same sequence?

David,

Thanks.

Yes the 272s and 372 (and all later GRD's) were all one numbering sequence, as with Ralt later.

If McConnell's Tasman car was 010 (I'm assuming you observed that number), which fits given it was the second ever GRD to race, then the number 10 given by Henk for the Mo Harness F3 car either implies that GRD converted MCConnell's Tasman car to an F3 on its return from Aus/NZ this becoming Harness's F3 car in mid-72 and McConnell's 1972 FAt/FB car was a later chassis OR McConnell's car was 010 throughout its life in Tasman/FAt/FB and Harness car was another number.
You refer to McConnell first using his car in September 71. Do you have more details?

Roland Binder ran a Brabham BT36 in 1972 F2 - where did he appear in a GRD?

I can only find Ikuzawa running in F2 in 1972, but his car was 020.

Thanks again,

Adam

McConnell ran the first GRD FB car at the end of 71 in the US FB series.
Like you I presumed this to be 010. MN describes the car McConnell takes to the Tasman series as the first GRD built - which tallies with our supposition about the series starting with 10.
AS says that the car is returned to the UK after this. McConnell is to get a new car to take to N.America for 1973 while the older car is to be refitted as an FB for Jacques Couture.

McConnell is entered for the Atlantic race at Snetterton on 31.3.72 but DNA.
[This is the first programme I've got for 72 so there may be earlier...] Again DNA at Brands 15.4
Martin Watson's 012 appears in both races.
McConnell does appear in Canadian FB races in 1972 using a B72, which clearly has to be a new car, given that 010 now appears to be an F3 car! But Couture uses a Lotus and no other GRDs seem to appear in N.America that year

I think this makes a kind of sense.
010 McConnell 1971 then Tasman. Returned to works for rebuild for Couture. Deal falls through. Rebuilt as F3 for Harness then to Scandanavia
011 Sutcliffe 1971, then early 1972 F3. Then works hack.
This fits observations. What happened to 011 after 72 still a mystery.
012 First customer car for Watson.

McConnell's second FB car [B72] seems to go to Dick Doran in 1973 and a new B73 appears in May for John Milledge in US and Harry Stiller runs one for Bev Bond in UK.

Chris

Originally posted by Adam Ferrington
David,

Thanks.

Yes the 272s and 372 (and all later GRD's) were all one numbering sequence, as with Ralt later.

If McConnell's Tasman car was 010 (I'm assuming you observed that number), which fits given it was the second ever GRD to race, then the number 10 given by Henk for the Mo Harness F3 car either implies that GRD converted MCConnell's Tasman car to an F3 on its return from Aus/NZ this becoming Harness's F3 car in mid-72 and McConnell's 1972 FAt/FB car was a later chassis OR McConnell's car was 010 throughout its life in Tasman/FAt/FB and Harness car was another number.
You refer to McConnell first using his car in September 71. Do you have more details?

Roland Binder ran a Brabham BT36 in 1972 F2 - where did he appear in a GRD?

I can only find Ikuzawa running in F2 in 1972, but his car was 020.

Thanks again,
Yes, the number for McConnell's Tasman car comes from first-hand (eye?)observation.
Can't now remember where my September 1971 reference originally came from, but it does tie in with Chris's notes.
I may well be mistaken about Ikuzawa being in F3(after all, 2 and 3 are next to each other on the keyboard!)

Hello
This car http://www.classicformula.se/Mantorpfinal2/images/6FNY040925-049_JPG.jpg
is 373#47 ex Hasse Wengstre/Ingvar Carlsson and have been in Norway since the 70's
373#49 have been and still is in Norway and for sale

There is another 373#47 currently beeing restored in Sweden but it has a different history to #47 in Norway tis is said to have been raced by among others Stefan (Lill Lövis) Johansson

Henrik

Hello
I seems that the Swedish importer Wendels imported a few cars as spares to avoid sales tax which were built up as full cars. The 2nd #47 is probably one of these, both cars has chassis plates and full history.
Henrik

Chris,

Yes, I agree with what you say about McConnell's first car.
I also have a note that it was "returned to England to be converted to F Atlantic spec to be raced by Tom Walkinshaw". This would be an Autosport or MN quote.
We know that Walkinshaw never appeared in such a car.
I have McConnell appearing twice in F Atlantic, 31/3 at Brands and 15/4 at Snetterton.
I have his first FB appearance as 7 May at Laguna Seca.

Re. your comment about Bev Bond's Stiller F.Atlantic GRD :-1) Do you know its number?
2) I have a photo of a similar car At Silverstone in 1976 being raced by one Peter Vincent. Have you come across him and is this the Stiller car?

Chris,

I've just come accross something which maybe corroborates the theory that MCConnell's F.At became Harness's GRD.......

The early 1972 F.Atlantic programmes show MCConnell's car livery as Green and Yellow.

Harness's F3 car when it appears is also shown as Green & Yellow. Normal GRD/GRS works colours were Maroon and grey, similar to their badge.

Not conclusive proof, but..

Adam

Re McConnell's 1972 races in Britain, he does actually appear at Snetterton on 31.3 and gets taken off on lap one!. In the copy of the Brands programme I have for 15.4 he is marked as N/A and doesn't show on the very full grid written in on it.

I also realise that I have confused McConnell's 72 appearances with the 1971 season! I'm now not sure McConnell does race the car in the US in late 71. [Some of my records are now incomplete after my laptop got swiped last month and I hadn't backed up the recent work I'd done on 1971 US] It might well be that the Tasman is the debut for this car.

Chris

Chris,

My Brands note for McConnell comes from my GRD records where it simply says "R" for retired. I would have based what I had on AU/MN, but your marked programme sounds more reliable.

According to my records McConnell's GRD first raced at Pukekohe on 8 Jan. 1972. As far as I know Sutcliffe was the on person to race a GRD in 1971 (2 F3 appearances).

Hallo,
I´m the owner of GRD375 with chassinr 0047K. The car has a special front rolloverbar made by Wängstre and a bodywork as used on -75 cars.
Q 1: what is the K standing for in the chassinr. ?
Q 2: what is the chassinr. of the car standing in the garage of Stefan Johanssons father ?
If any one have are intrested in photos of the GRD raced by some Brasilian guy send me a mail, I also know where the Lancia engine ar for the Italian car.

Bjorn

Questions to Adam and Chris!

Thanks for the information abouth my GRD #10 and#47. Henk is restoring #10 and he told me to check out this forum and all the wise people visiting the forum.

Have you agreed regards #10. Who drowe the car and where. It would be nice to restor it back to original. Was it a F2/FA/FB or a F3 Can anyone find some pictures of the car when it was new? As I understand it was painted Green and Yellow when Harness drowe it at Brands 14-15.7.72. Is it possible that some could have pictures of it when it was new?

Thanks

Petter

Off topic slightly but just spotted the name, Mo Harness. Not old enough to remember him in his prime but I do in Pre'85 FF1600 in 1991. I remember him being very fast in a Reynard FF84 and an absolute gent. Nice to see him mentioned.

Petter,

I sent Henrik a scan of the one (Harness) photo I have.

http://img67.exs.cx/img67/502/HarnessGRDBrandsHatch15July1972a.th.jpg (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=HarnessGRDBrandsHatch15July1972a.jpg)

I have never seen a photo of McConnell's Tasman car.

When I next visit the LAT photo library, I'll see if they have anything clearer

I have the programme for the F Atlantic race at Brands 5th March 72 McConnell is a dna. Watson is 11th after qualifying 15th.

Petter.
I think that Adam and I are agreed that 010 was the prototype FB/Atlantic car used by David McConnell in the Tasman series, so its history is limited to those few races at the beginning of 1972. It then came back to the UK and may have been used a few more times by McConnell in the British Atlantic series. It is then converted to F3 spec and sold to Harness.

It looks as though 011 was the works F3 spare and prototype car.

RAP: Would it be possible to have a copy of the 5/3/72 Atlantic programme to update material for oldracingcars.com ?- this is one of the few gaps in 1972.
Do you have more?

Chris

Hello
I got a mail from Håkan Alrikson with some of the history on 373 #49

In 1973 he bought a rolling chassis from Wendels
The engine came from Bengt Gilhorns 1972 car a Holbay 1600.
He ended up as 3rd in SM 1973

For 1974 he bought a new chassis at the factory and rebuilt it as a 1974 at the factory, went to Holbay and got a new 2liter pinto and then off to Nürburgring!

Next race was at Knutstorp and then Monaco where he crashed the car.

The car was the rebuilt with the old monocouqe and raced during 1974 and -75

The car was sold to Ebbe Karlsson Who did some races
Car sold on to Björn Almström who restored it and did som e club races with SSK and then sold it on to Norway.


Henrik

Hello Henrik, I have a question: the Nürburgring race was May 18, where Alriksson finished 22nd (and last), and the Monaco race was May 25. When would the Knutstorp race have been? Also, did he crash in the Monaco final or in practice or a qualifying heat?

272 - 019 - F2 is currently for sale in Canada. Some information from the ad may be useful as it states the car was brought to Canada in 1974 by McConnell Racing as part of a 3-car group.

Following is from the ad:

According to the car's log book, it was brought into Canada in 1974 which would indicate that it was new or virtually new. It was brought in by McConnell Racing and was part of a three car group they brought in for the Formula "B" series. The car was purchased by the current owner in May 1978.

It was purchased as a Formula “B” rolling chassis complete with two spare engine frame sections and a single Hewland Transmission (Hewland FT-200 five-speed) with a number of spare ratios. It has two sets of wheels one for dry tires and one for wet.

The chassis is equipped with duel fuel cells in the side pods, dual master cylinder brakes with adjustable bias bar, fire system and duel fuel pumps. The suspension is completely finished with fully adjustable spherical joints. A second smaller roll bar was added in the cockpit in front of the driver to give added protection.

As a Formula “B” all the bodywork is complete including a front wing and two rear wings one for high speed and one for slower speed.

As a Sports Racer it has a complete wheel enclosing body. This body was cast for endurance racing, specifically the Molyslip Endurance Series where it would be competing with both sports-cars and sedans under the then single seat sports racing, class "B" rules. The body was designed by Robert Giannou and built at Triad Racing in St. John’s Newfoundland. It was made more substantial so as to give side additional impact protection. Removable side pods were designed to be collision absorbing as well as to hold the stepped out radiators. The side pods for the sports racing version can be removed and the formula body fitted in less than a half a day. The radiators just step back to their original mounts. Both rear wings are adapted to the sports racing body. The four body molds are also available.

The chassis comes with two 1600 ford crossflow engines. One is equipped with a Cosworth head and Cosworth pistons.

The car was completely tested but never raced by the present owner.

Although the car has been stored in a dry heated garage since 1980 you can expect that the car will need some TLC before hitting the track again. We can provide restoration services if requested by the winning bidder.

Spares: There is a fairly good selection of final and individual drive ratios with the transmission. and I have the ful manuel on it with all of the ratios and speed curves. There is a spare set of rear chassis frames with the vehicle but no spare suspension pieces. There are two sets of wheels and two wings high speed and low speed.

According to the info we have, the vehicle was built by Modus Group Racing Developments in Griston, Norfolk, United Kingdom. The chassis number is plated as 272 - 019 - F2. There is space for engine and transmission numbers but the spaces are not, nor have ever been stamped. Our read of the number is as follows: 2 = type of chassis 72 = year of production, -019 is the unit production number, F-2 = Formula 2 rules which was the source class of a lot of the Formula B's that came into North America.

This is very interesting , to say the least!
Number 19 in the GRD build run was never observed in the UK at the time by Adam Ferrington, who seems to have found virtually everything that did run here. This would suggest it to be either an F3 that went abroad, a spare F2 or an FB car.
From the known debut dates of the cars around it, 19 looks like it would be an April 72 production. This fits with it being the new car that was built for David McConnell to take to the Canadian and US championships in 1972. It is perhaps the car that McConnell ran in a few British Atlantic rounds in spring 72, rather than his Tasman chassis 11, which now seems to have been converted to F3 and eventually gone to Mo Harness.

McConnell runs a GRD 272 in Canada and US through 1972. I haven't yet found a reference to another GRD appearing in 1972 in N.American FB races. According to Canadian Motorsports Bulletin for 1973 [thanks to Rob North!] that car passed to Richard Doran of Montreal who seems to keep it up to 1976. Only one GRD [a B73] seems to go to US in 1973, for John Milledge of California.

I'm not sure how McConnell might be importing this to Canada in 1974 - unless he is hoovering a few cars up cheap from the works for the Canadian FB/Atlantic series then. This log book entry would suggest the car was a spare F2 car and didn't appear much in the N.American pro series. So, some more scrutiny of log book and known history might be useful. If there is a way of linking ownership back to Doran, or to the Montreal area, it might be that we've solved the problem of McConnell's 1972 car.

Chris

I have never seen a photo of McConnell's Tasman car.


Hi all

Scanning aimlessly through the Autopics F5000 section last night, I came across this and wondered if it is the car in question?

http://www.autopics.com.au/cache/item-1141public.html?cache=no

If for any reason this doesn't work, it is in the F5000 section, 1972, first shot on the second row. If you click on it, a marginally bigger version comes up...

Incidentally, further aimless scanning last night found that 272-014 (the ex-Salomon car) is apparently for sale on www.carclassic.com

The advert for 272-014 coincidentally confirms the F1R's records of Saloman's car.
This would seem to mean that 272-019 can only be :-

One of the 2 works F2s (but the GRS car was 016 and Ikuzawa's was 020)
Bourgoignie' F2 car (but that ran until at least 1974)
OR McConnell's 1972 FB car.

As Chris says, McConnell's 1972 FB car is the most likely candidate, although this doesn't gel with a 1974 importation date.

Adam,
Having just purchased the GRD 272-019-F2 I can tell you that it has green and yellow original bodywork, a old looking period dash placque with the above serial number still in position. The car has been stored in a heated garage in Newfoundland since 1978, never raced and only done limited track time by the last owner. Once I get it home I will share some photos.
Mike

Also the owner is not at all sure about the 1974 date as previously stated for the McConnell importation to Canada. The bodywork still has the #86 on it, which Dave McConnell is listed as using in some races I see.
Anyway more to follow as I do some cleanup on it.
Mike

Mike,

The green & yellow colour is, I believe, in line with it being McConnell's car.

Also, this is a photo of him from the 1972/73 Autocourse annual....

http://img113.exs.cx/img113/6831/mcconnellgrd0016uk.th.jpg (http://img113.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img113&image=mcconnellgrd0016uk.jpg)

No. 86!

Adam,
Hey thanks, you made my day !
Plus I spoke to Richard Doran tonight, who is still living in Montreal and I have arranged to meet next weekend. He purchased the car from Dave McConnell in he belives late 1973, and it was green and yellow. There is one other Montreal owner inbetween Doran and the Newfoundland owner, who I am looking for.
Doran said Dave had two cars and still had the other when he bought this one. The other may well have been 029-273 !! according to some of the doccumentation.
It should be interesting meeting with Doran as he is going to dig out his old information.
Mike

Mike,

Glad the info helped.

Would be very interested in any details of the "other" car - "029" is currently a gap in my records.

Mike

Agree totally with Adam about the colour scheme pointing to it being McConnell's 1972 car
However, whilst 029 is a gap in the records, as Adam says, I'm a bit perplexed about what McConnell is doing with it in early 73 when he sells this car to Doran. He raced a TS15 Surtees in Europe in 1973 and unless he bought this in and sold it on to John Milledge in California to become his B73 I can't think where it went. So, waiting further details on that with anticipation!

Chris

The Allan Clennell B73 of the mid-70s anyone ??

Dan

Clennell's car was 273-054 the ex Kazato F2 chassis that passed to Chris Oates and was used by a variety of rent-a-drivers in Atlantic

Chris

Adam,
Hey thanks, you made my day !
Plus I spoke to Richard Doran tonight, who is still living in Montreal and I have arranged to meet next weekend. He purchased the car from Dave McConnell in he belives late 1973, and it was green and yellow. There is one other Montreal owner inbetween Doran and the Newfoundland owner, who I am looking for.
Doran said Dave had two cars and still had the other when he bought this one. The other may well have been 029-273 !! according to some of the doccumentation.
It should be interesting meeting with Doran as he is going to dig out his old information.
Mike

How sure is Doran about the 'late 73' date? The only reason I ask is that I have come across a car which might be a potential second car for Dave McConnell, although it may not add up at all...

In round 4 of the John Player Formula Atlantic series (Snetterton April 14th 1974), Dave Walker makes an appearance in what Motoring News describes as 'a brand new GRD B74 powered by an SRE unit. This yellow and green car showed much promise...' The words yellow and green caught my eye, particularly as in an earlier MN (can't find it at the mo!) there was an announcement to the effect that he would be running a GRD in the North American Formula Atlantic series. He appears again in a 374 (B74?) in the May round but then disappears, presumably to the US? Does anybody know what chassis number this might be and whether this ultimately ended up with McConnell?

Michael

Walker's car was the Ken Swanson Racing B74. I don't yet know the chassis number but am working on it. The problem with the claim to be going to run in the North American series in 1974 is that in the end there wasn't a championship that year. There were only two 'pro' races in USA [Waterford Hills and Watkins Glen GP support race] and there was the Canadian series. I doubt that he would have gone to run in SCCA. Walker definitely doesn't appear in the Canadian series in 74 - Doran's ex McConnell chassis is the only GRD, when it qualifies. Walker's definitely not at the Glen either. That only leaves the relatively minor Waterford Hills event. [the one pro event in N. America in 74 where I don't have an entry list]

I think that the Swanson car might have ended up being converted to F2 spec and not run there either! By mid 74 GRD was getting into a bit of a mess.
On the basis of its position in the build run and the appearance dates of cars whose chassis numbers we don't yet know [negative induction!] I'd reckon that 273-029 should be 372-029 [ie 1972 build] since 030 is seen in Sept 72 and 033 and 034 as early as July. The likely candidates for it would be Sutcliffe's second works car, Keichi Tahara's works car or Williamson's car.

Michael

Walker's car was the Ken Swanson Racing B74. I don't yet know the chassis number but am working on it. The problem with the claim to be going to run in the North American series in 1974 is that in the end there wasn't a championship that year. There were only two 'pro' races in USA [Waterford Hills and Watkins Glen GP support race] and there was the Canadian series. I doubt that he would have gone to run in SCCA. Walker definitely doesn't appear in the Canadian series in 74 - Doran's ex McConnell chassis is the only GRD, when it qualifies. Walker's definitely not at the Glen either. That only leaves the relatively minor Waterford Hills event. [the one pro event in N. America in 74 where I don't have an entry list]

I think that the Swanson car might have ended up being converted to F2 spec and not run there either! By mid 74 GRD was getting into a bit of a mess.
On the basis of its position in the build run and the appearance dates of cars whose chassis numbers we don't yet know [negative induction!] I'd reckon that 273-029 should be 372-029 [ie 1972 build] since 030 is seen in Sept 72 and 033 and 034 as early as July. The likely candidates for it would be Sutcliffe's second works car, Keichi Tahara's works car or Williamson's car.

Hi Chris

Thanks for that. I guess it may have been more likely that he intended to race in Canada in 1974 as I am sure he told me his wife is Canadian and I know he went out there to race a Lola for Robert Joubert's team in 1975. I suppose like many plans, it didn't all work out!

BTW, where did Ken Swanson race: the US? It is not a name I am familiar with.

Hello again.
I have found some information abouth the GRD that Dave McConnel used in the Tasmas series in 1972. Regards the "oldracingcars.com" did McConnel take part in several races. He drove a GRD 272 with chassis number 012 with a Hard BDA 4 engine.
This is not the same result that Chris and Adam found out abouth my 372 010 that was driven by Mo Harness late summer 1972.
Adam and Chris I am still confused about who drowe my 372 010 when it was new and during the 1971 and 1972 season before Harness got it. It seems that maybe McConnel didn`t drowe my car at all. Who did?

Still confused racing driver!

Petter

Hi. Where does the information about McConnell in 012 come from. We have hard evidence that 012 was the car sold new to Martin Watson for F.Atlantic in UK, and that car still exists. [See other thread on GRDs on this site.] Also, 010 was noted as the chassis of McConnell's NZ car by both Motoring News and by David McKinney - and David's record keeping is impeccable.

I'd stand by the theory that Adam and I agreed that this was Mcconnell's car in NZ and then converted to F3 for Harness when a plan to run it in Canada for Jacques Couture fell through

Chris

Hello again!
I checked the site Old racing Cars.com. If you look under F 5000 and under the Tasman series 1972. You will find a lot of information abouth alle the cars taking part in several races in the Tasman series. They say that the informaton where based on informaton for Autosport, Autoweek, the 1972 Racing Car News Yearbook and Australian Grand Prix. There is a lot of information there. I have found out that McConnel almost never made it to the finish. He had a lot of problems with the HART BDA engine.

Best regars Petter

Petter

I think that Allen maybe needs to update that info [which is maybe from a certain book on NZ motorsport - or was it me!]
Anyway - I've just spent a happy day in the company of 1971 Autosport and Motoring News
A/S carries a very full report on the company 30.9.71 pp. 37 - 40
They show a photo of McConnell's car which they say is bound for NZ and decribe it as the first car built
There are a number of photos, in one of which you can see work going on on the prototype 372

14.10.71 A/S says that Martin Watson has ordered the first customer car to race in UK

M/N report is 23.12.71 pp. 6 - 7
It says that McConnell's car was first built and has already left for the Tasman series
The 372 driven by Sutcliffe at the end of the season is tested
Watson's car is seen under construction.

I think this backs up
010 McConnell, returned to UK converted to F3 for Harness
011 Sutcliffe [F3] which stays as works hack car until August at least
012 Watson, new for 1972

The differences of set up between F2/FB/F3 GRD was minimal - it was a matter of different fuel tanks and engine frames.

Chris

Chris, did we say where the Watson car is now, I can't recall ?

Petter

I think that Allen maybe needs to update that info [which is maybe from a certain book on NZ motorsport - or was it me!] No, not Vercoe. I changed it from 010 to 012 a while ago following a discussion on the main GRD thread. I'll defer to you on any Atlantic chassis numbers. Shall I change it back to 010?

Allen

Yesterday I got the results of an obscure Atlantic race at Road America in August 1974. Amongst the retirements was Cliff Hansen in a GRD-BDA entered by Swanson Racing!
It looks as though Bev Bond's car made it to the US, even if he didn't. This is still the only appearance for the car that year [so far] but don't have all the runners from Waterford Hills, where it would also have made sense for it to appear. It's not on the very full entry list at Watkins Glen, so wonder what happened to it.

Chris

Apologies
Meant Dave Walker, not Bev Bond, who also raced GRD FB briefly

Hi Dan

012 is sitting in my garage awaiting a complete rebuild, i have the original bill of sale and the original RAC certificate of conformity together with a letter from AB wild on its authenticity. The car was actually sold to John Watson (Martins Father -bill of sale.but that would be splitting hairs!)

regards

Adam,
The GRD is chassis 019 F2, which was apparently the 'backup' chassis according to Dave McConnell. Other than some tarnish from sitting it is excellent condition. The original car #10 or #11 that Dave drove he said was not changed, he belives it was the same car driven in the Tasman series then brought back to Canada; although he is not 100% about this. Jacques Couture still lives in California and Dave said he ask Jacques about the chassis.
I have purchased a David Wood BDA to put in the GRD as a number of GRD's have a Wood BDA listed, to keep it period correct. So I am looking for more information on the Wood engines.
Mike

How do guys ?

Here are two more GRDs to ad to the group. I'm the owner of "272 020 F2" and "B73 074 FB". 020 is complete and waiting it's turn to be freshened. 074 is in need of a complete restoration. It used to be owned by Willy T. Ribb's father and was (I assume) raced by Willy.

Great to find other GRD owners. brad moore.

Brad

Welcome and great to learn of the existence of another GRD Atlantic.
B73 074 FB would most likely be, I guess, either the John Milledge/Archie
Snider car - which would give the car a west coast history mainly in SCCA
from 73 to 75, or the 1973 DART car allegedly sold to Mike Hiss, though I can't find evidence of this appearing in UK or US. More remote possibility is
that it's the ex Bev Bond car, which would mean US history starts 1974 at
the earliest.

Do you have any back history of 074?

Chris

How do Chris ?

It's the Milledge car. I bought it as part of a deal and am slowly (very) getting all the parts together....still missing some odds and ends. Some of the bits are as hard as Hen's teeth to find........like wheels. It was always a San Francisco Region S.C.C.A. car. I received a record of the previous owners when I bought it. I have the names out at the shop and will send them along when I next get out there.

There are three other cars that I know of out here on this coast.

Do you know of any information sites for GRDs ? Or Books ? I have some period articles but am always looking for more.

Great to hear form you. brad moore.

Brad

That's great and look forward to getting the complete back history of the car.
There aren't any books, or for that matter contemporary articles - as far as I know - on GRD. I guess that this thread is it, based largely upon Adam Ferrington's expertise in gathering GRD chassis nos in the 1970s and keeping the records.

It did occur to me that the GRD build records might be with Van Diemen who took
over the GRD operation in 1976. Has anyone ever looked into this?

Can we discover more about the other 3 west coast cars? I presume that one of these has to be the ex DART car.

Chris

Chris.....

One is is Southern California and the other two that I know of are up north.

The person that owns the two thinks one car is the Wheatcroft/Williamson car. I think not, but maybe............

More info coming. brad.

Brad

Was there a point at which your Milledge car was fitted with a BDA?
It would have been delivered with a t/c for FB in 1973, but by 1975 Milledge was
able to beat Don Briedenbach's March 75B in SCCA, which I would have thought
unlikely if he still had a t/c in the back.

Chris

Hello
I found a Picture of #10 on the front of Autosport 30september 1971 as a F2 with FT400 gearbox with FT200 internals and BDG engine. Car was intended for "Canadian driver John McConnell to take to the Tasman series"

http://hhtech.se/slask/autosport.jpg



Henrik

Anyone need to talk to Milledge? Someone I know was talking with him about a M10A last week.

Allen

Isn't that a great pic. I guess the white coats are meant to signify what a high-tech scientific outfit GRD was. Anyone know who they all are ?

Isn't that a great pic. I guess the white coats are meant to signify what a high-tech scientific outfit GRD was. Anyone know who they all are ?

Left to right: Jo Marquart, Derek Wild, Gordon Huckle, Dave Baldwin. Jo and Dave were both designers but I am not sure who did what - I would guess Jo did the sports cars and Dave the formula cars as Dave had already designed the Lotus 59 and 69, maybe someone with more knowledge of GRD can put me right on that one!? As most of you will know, Jo sadly died a few years back. Dave still works for Van Diemen after all these years! Derek was a fabricator with Team Lotus and still works for Van Diemen today.

Gordon was a former Chief Mechanic at Team Lotus, he had worked with Alan McCall on Jimmy Clark's cars in 1967 and before that as well (e.g. on the 33s). After a spell IIRC on the 47s and 62s, he returned as Chief F1 Mechanic for the 1970 season. By the time Monza came round, he was suffering from exhaustion (in common with most of the GLTL F1 mechanics that year) so did not travel to that race and in fact I think I am right in saying did not do any more races that year. Gordon is now happily retired. I had recent contact with Derek, Gordon and Dave concerning a Gold Leaf Team Lotus reunion I organised earlier this year and in fact Dave came along to the event.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

Michael

Very interesting thanks Michael, did Derek do any racing himself, F4 rings a vague bell ?

Very interesting thanks Michael, did Derek do any racing himself, F4 rings a vague bell ?

Not sure about that, I haven't ever met Derek, only had a brief conversation on the phone and he didn't want to attend the re-union, so I didn't get a chance to talk to him in more depth...

I have just picked back up on this thread.
I purchased an F3 GRD back in March, and it came with an amount of paperwork. One piece was dated circa 2000 and was from a German guy who was trying to collate a record chasis and had set up Classic Team GRD. It said that he had picked up some of the chassis records of GRD on a trip to Van Diemen when he had met Derek Wilds. If anyone is interested I will dig out the contact details of this chap.
As an aside, Peter Denty has access to many GRD parts, moulds, castings and general information.

Oh yes, definitely interested!

Matthew,

Yes, I would definitely be interested in any factory derived records for GRD.
At the time I compiled an incomplete list of cars and there owners, but there are many gaps!

Sorry for the delay in getting back, few IT issues!

The name of the chap who Derek Wild gave some GRD information to was Ekkhard Krause. From looking at the letters they were dated end of 95. I you send me a pm I will forward you the address and phone/fax numbers that I have.
As an aside, I also have a letter from a chap named Per Erik Syverstad of Norway from the same period who at that time had two GRD's. He had 373 no.47 that he had restored, and he also had 372 no 10 which was in bits, but with a new tub. At the time both of these cars were for sale.

The car that I have is a Van Diemen / GRD 376 which I am restoring for use in the HSCC Classic F3 Championship. The chassis number is either 02 or 102 and I have it's history from 1980 to date but not the first 4 years. It appears to have always run a 2ltr Lotus Twin Cam engine and spent it's time in Scandanavia. Any info would be appreciated.

I have also come across 2 other F3 GRD's that are currently in bits but being rebuilt in Woking. At present I don't know what the chassis numbers are but they appear to be early cars as the tubs are tapered at the rear for side mounted rads.
When I find out the numbers I will let you know.

Thank you Matthew.

I have sent you a PM.

hello- I am completely new to this forum so please bear with me if I make a few mistakes. I am currently racing GRD chassis 021 in the eastern US and know very little about the history of the GRD cars. I was racing at Watkins Glen and happened to meet Mike Snowdon and John Milledge both of whom provided significant backround information. Mike mentioned this forum to me and I can see from the various entries that there are several of you who know a great deal about the cars and have quite a bit of historical information.
I am planning to keep the car as period correct as possible and would like to race it with its original livery which I understand was as a Gitanes sponsored car. Would anyone be able to tell me how I might locate a period photo of the car? Also would anyone have any information about the car after it was driven by Passadore in 1973?
Any background information that anyone might have about the car would be greatly appreciated.

Rob,

Good to hear of another vintage GRD alive and well.

I have a couple of (snapshot) photos of your car when raced by Pierre-Francois Rousselot in F3. I also have a feeling that it may have been featured in colour on the cover of Autosport at some time in 1972.(will check)

In the next few days I will send you an e-mail with the photos I have, plus a list of the appearances I believe it made in Rousselot's and Passadore's hands.
In the meantime could you send me your e-mail address, as I don't believe Ten-Tenths PMs allow the attachment of photos.

Hope this helps,

Adam

I was just flicking through the new Autosport A to Z Motorsport Directory and saw that there was an entry for Classic Team GRD. I wondered if there had been any response from Ekkehard Krause.

Matthew

Matthew,

No, no response from Classic Team GRD as yet.
I found an alternative address by Googling, so I'll try that after Christmas.

Hello all GRD enthusiasts out there,

I am astonished and delighted to find so many people discussing GRD's history: At the moment unfortunately there are very few occasions surfing in the www on this subject.

Seems someone was trying to contact me (Classic Team GRD)? I am not racing GRD's anymore already since 1998 mainly due to reasons within my profession, but of course still enthusiastic and owning two cars, one being the ex Tim Brise 372 034, which I have bought from Marcus Pye.

Ekkes

Welcome Ekkes

Allen

Ekkes,

Welcome - I have sent you an e-mail, re any GRD info you may have.

Adam and Allen,

thank you for your welcome. At first I wondered if I should start with: Please find attached with all the official data from GRD. But then I thought you might become a heart attack before I could apologize: no unfortunately I have no official data from GRD at all.

To my knowledge nothing like this exists, at least not anymore. Mike Warner should know, to whom I had no contact myself at all. I asked Peter Denty for this many years ago. I understand he has anything got from Mike Warner there was left.

I think you know - by far - more than I do on GRD's history anyway. What I started with was a list of all persons being involved with GRD, being it employees or customers, drivers et al - trying to collect and beware the history. There was a small article on this in Autosport in the mid 90's. I have had some correspondence with former and current owners, mainly on specific cars.

As well I have been in contact with James W. Bamber. He worked as fabricator/welder from the very beginning at GRD until some point in 1973 and had made some personal notes just for himself. Because of this I managed to be helpful with some details on early GRD's he had worked on. This is what someone obviously meant. If you have any questions concerning a specific - early - car maybe I can be helpful; just ask.

Ekkes

P.S. The other GRD I have is S73 - 054. I know it was raced by Andreas Christopherus from Greece (to my knowledge the drummer of the mid 70's band 'Aphrodite's Child'). But history of this car is still very incomplete: I never managed to find out very much on GRD's sportscar history - not even the number of cars which were really built - mainly because there seems to habe been a huge interest in Japan: I simply cannot read these damn letters!! If you know something on this matter, please help.

Ekkes,

Thanks for your reply.
Interesting that you have one of the S73 sportscars. I had 054 down as the number of Kazato's 273 F2 car, but it's not the first time that such inconsistencies have appeared.

I have sent you an e-mail with a list of the first (1972/early 73) cars as we know them, in case you can fill in any gaps.

This thread is now closed following the merging of threads; see here:-

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1553614#post1553614