Rover 3500S Sedan Racer

I have recently acquired an early 1970s Rover 3500S.
I am condidering converting it to a vintage racing car for competition here in the US.
Was this car used in Sedan racing in the UK in the 70s?
I know the later V8 Rovers were raced, but I have never seen anything about the model I have.
Who could I contact for information for racing this car?

Thanks,
Tom Whitfield
nsbrit@att.net

Welcome to the forum nsbrit.

AFAIK the Rover P6 3500S was raced in the UK in period as a modified saloon. It had all of its bolt on panels made from fibreglass. Can't remember the name of the chap that ran it but I know a man that does. I will "pm" you with his name and number.

I believe Andrew Kitson may also recall the car and I'm sure a few of the guys on this forum will be able to help. (He may even have a pic or two).

As to your current needs, it would depend on what regulations you are running to. Over here there is a chap who races with the CTCRC and Top Hat 70's saloons who runs a P6 3500 and that is built to FIA Group 1 regulations. That means no body mods, standard carburation (in terms of numbers not size) and full race engines etc. You can get those regs from the CTCRC site at www.csccgb.co.uk. Look for the pre 74 Post Historic regs.

I think the car may have problems with its inboard rear brakes but it seems to go quite well.

nsbrit, refer to www.autopics.com.au & search for Rover &/or Jim Smith. The Camel Rover came to Aus from the old dart - I understand it is being rebuilt from nothing at this time.

As I understand it Leyland had two cars built for touring car racing and then they pulled the pin on the project. One of the cars came to Aus for Jim Smith to race.

I have a magazine story someware about the cars.

The name Roy Pierrepoint rings a bell with a Special Sallon P6. I'll check my records and post again later.

That's the bloke! I believe one of his cars has been discovered recently.

Peter, I saw it win at Mallory in June 1970. Entered by "WJ Shaw" driven by Roy Pierpoint. Apparently it had a 4500cc motor, and won from Mick Hill's 3.8 'Janglia', Pat Mannion's 1.7 Escort, Gordon Line's 1.3 Mini, Frank Didsbury's 1.6 Anglia, and RA Bushells 1.6 Escort. Great days indeed !!!

Yep.

When Special Saloons were just that. ;)

Thanks guys !!
I just found this site, it is very similar to the one I frequent for Production car racing here in the US.
I just got this car from my best freind who lives in Hawkinge, just outside Dover. We import older series Land Rovers and other cars to the US and I sell them here.
Thank you for all the information, keep it coming when you find more. We vintage race a MGB now and we are also in the process of starting constuction of a Datsun Fairlady 2000 for vintage competition. But the idea of a big FIRE Breathing Rover V8 sounds too good to pass up, plus never having seen one in the US makes it even better.
Again, thanks everyone.
Tom Whitfield
PS I did NOT vote for Bush
:banghead: :mad: :(

Tom,

We don't just talk about historics, There are other forums (fora?) too.

Take a look around, there's one for racers (like you), plus one for track info etc. Of course there's IRL and F1, Cart, touring cars etc.

This car was built by 2 ex Alan Mann Racing mechanics. I forget their names. It was built for Bill Shaw Racing and fitted with a 360+ BHP engine that was out of John Coundley's Mclaren Oldsmobile. 4303cc of Traco power.The problem at Mallory Park was the standard Rover 2000 gearbox which was replaced eventually with an American sourced gearbox.
The car was sold to Alec Poole and raced mainly in Ireland.

Rover also built a car for the Marathon de la Route at Nurburgring,Roy Pierpoint, Clive Baker and Roger Enever driving. The car led at the start of the race and held a lead of 3 laps at one point. I do not remember the rest of the story.

The engine in the car was built by Mathwall Engineering when RP drove the car.

Photo here from our archive.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=469443#post469443

Tried to link the actual post. Won't let me!
You have to scroll back to page 1 and find post from racing fxgt Rover1.jpg

hi there

don't know if your interested but i have found some information on the v8 p6 racers.

it's in a copy of the book=
THE ROVER V8 ENGINE (2ND EDITION) by DAVID HARDCASTLE
published by HAYNES PUBLISHING
ISBN 0 85429 961 0
(pages 81-84)
there are also 5 pictures of the shaw/pierpoint car

it says 2 were built (JXC806/808D) in 1970

JXC808D was run by BILL SHAW & ROY PIERPOINT & developed by JOMOCO RACING,BROOKWOOD,SURREY
the engine was called a TRACO-ROVER but was a TRACO-OLDSMOBILE prepared by MATHWALL ENGINEERING,COBHAM,SURREY
engine was 4.3litres/360hp
body was mostly aluminium with fibreglass wheel arches

JXC806D basically the same but it competed in the 1971 NURBURGRING 86 HOUR MARATHON DE LA ROUTE,leading for 16 hrs before retiring
this car afterwards went to AUSTRALIA (1971?)where it raced before being restored

hope this might be of some interest

d-b

Like your sig d-b. ;)

hi there
thanks Peter
I'm afraid I am a complete Rover SD1 & Capri nut
I got in to them watching the Slick 50 Class A racing
1988-1996
loved them ever since & always will
still watch them eg. group 1/classic thunder etc
hope they never stop racing

d-b

You might like to look at my website then.

I think as I recollect the major problem with the P6 was the odd Di-jon (sorry if spelt wrong) rear axle arrangment. I have used these cars on the road and they did tend to nose on a bit (understeer)as I remember. With the event of the SD1 with a more conventional rear axle layout and McPherson strut front suspension the car really took off in competition.

A feature on the Rover in Australia was published in a recent issue of Australian Muscle Car. Paraphrasing the article, it was built from a brand new shell in 1970 in British Leyland's competition dept at Abingdon as a prototype for a homologation run of 1000 high performance FIA Gr2 touring car versions of the then current alloy block Rover 3500 V8. It had flared guards, wide Minilite mag wheels,a Muncie 4 speed & a Traco modified, quad Weber 4.3 litre engine.
The car raced only once in Europe, the 84 hour Marathon at Nurburgring, reaching a top speed of 176mph. It came to Australia at the end of 1970 & raced in 1971.

Originally posted by Al Weyman
I think as I recollect the major problem with the P6 was the odd Di-jon (sorry if spelt wrong) rear axle arrangment.

De Dion! It was unusual in having the sliding joint, necessary to accomodate angular movement in the driveshafts, in the axle rather than the driveshafts, which resulted in track changes, albeit small, with suspension movement.

I think the Repco engine was based on the same Buick block as the Rover. If so, some bits might be transferable (if you could lay your hands on any).

Why bother sourcing old parts there has been a lot of develoments on these old engines in the UK and tuning parts are easily sourced. There are even recast heads awailable now I believe as the breathing of the original heads was a weak spot in the design.

I have been posting on AtlasF1 (Shhh)....hoping to help out a friend who owns the ex-Alec Poole Rover P6B V8 Traco.

He was after the Chassis number of JXC806D which was imported by Leyland Australia and raced by James Smith in 1971 and later became the Camel Rover. The log book has been lost.

Huw on Atlas said.....The ex press car (JXC808D) was the one used for rallycross before becoming the first prototype racer built by Morgan and Rose, fitted with a 4.3 Traco Olds. this was sold to Alec Poole who raced it in Ireland. This car was red.

After Lord Stokes closed the UK Comps Dept in 1970 Sydney's Warwick Farm racing circuit promoter Geoff Sykes approached BL Australia about the possibility of bringing the car and
Roy Pierpont down under, but the deal fell through. The parent company then offered one of the two racing Rovers which had been built for sale.
Jim Smith went to England and bought the car with financial assistance from BL Australia subsidiary. His purchase included both Rover V8 factory racing engines. This car was Blue, ie the second car.

"(the other works P6B racer - the prototype - had a standard V8 installed
and was sent to the US for display purposes)."

In 1972 Smith got sponsorship from Shell and Camel Filter Cigarettes and the P6 was painted yellow with a 550 bhp 5 litre Repco Formula 5000 unit . Smith sold the car to the Jarrett brothers who sold it in 1976 to David Craig and changed from yellow to blue. The Rover was severely damaged in a garage fire.

In December 1984 it was sold through Auto Action magazine to a Sydney enthusiast, but there the trail goes quiet......
However this is the Marathon de la Route car, the second one. I don't believe this is the Alec Poole car, and I'm not sure No1 went to the States straight from Leyland, suggesting maybe that there was three............
So what did Alec do with his car when he finished with it?

Paul wrote.....Mick, Graham Howard wrote a comprehensive article on what became the Rover P6 Sports Sedan in a recent edition of Australian Muscle Car magazine. From what I can recall, Mr Baddeley (golfer Aaron's father, who went on to spanner for Mario Andretti in the States) did a lot of modifications to the Rover in the "Camel" days. I don't recall the Rover's fate.

I do recall another highly modified Rover P6 3500 from a few years back that was used in classic rallying by Ron Barr-Smith (I think that's his name.)

I'm pretty sure I have a feature on the other "works" Rover (red in colour) from the long defunct English magazine "Sporting Cars" (back in the early '80s.)

Present Day...Oct 2005

My friend Rob Harrison now has the car and would love to locate the CAMS Log Book which is missing. There is some controversy with the car so far as eligibility is concerned.

If anyone knows anything about the Rover or its documentation please PM me and I will put you in touch with (no doubt) an extremely grateful British Leyland/Rover enthusiast :brm:

I recall an ex UK car racing here in australia in the early-mid 70's. it was horrific . no-one could tame it. it raced as a sports-sedan cause the mods done were illegal for all other touring car classes at the time. i also believe it is being restored form virtually nothing. It got some press here in OZ, a few years back. I turned down a pile of TRACO engine parts in NZ a few years back,. it seems a lot of that stuff ended up there

If you remember it as a yellow Camel car...well thats probably it.

REPCO V8 powered....

Do you have any clues on contacts for the TRACO stuff you saw go the Shakey Isles?? :)

Originally posted by Peter malletAs to your current needs, it would depend on what regulations you are running to. Over here there is a chap who races with the CTCRC and Top Hat 70's saloons who runs a P6 3500 and that is built to FIA Group 1 regulations. That means no body mods, standard carburation (in terms of numbers not size) and full race engines etc. You can get those regs from the CTCRC site at www.csccgb.co.uk. Look for the pre 74 Post Historic regs Yes and I have sinced raced against him at Pembrey and the car goes remarkably well, beating me in the second race after my tyres went off causing me to go grass tracking. He is allowed some concessions though and they include a rather odd 'South African' spec bonnet with three forward facing scoops which I would love to be able to fit on the Camaro to get it breathing a bit of cold air. He is also allowed to use the SDi gearbox with 5th gear diabled and I believe he can use the later cross bolted block.

If you go to the The Classic Touring Car Club's front page you can see a shot of him chasing me on the front page.

Here is a better shot of the Rover after he got past me!http://www.cadart.com/Images/rover.jpg

I have been posting on AtlasF1 (Shhh)....hoping to help out a friend who owns the ex-Alec Poole Rover P6B V8 Traco....

...I'm pretty sure I have a feature on the other "works" Rover (red in colour) from the long defunct English magazine "Sporting Cars" (back in the early '80s.)...

:brm:

Hi, just cleared some of my old motoring magazines out of my Mum's loft to sell on ebay (Christmas is coming etc.) I have the February 1984 edition of Sporting Cars (in immaculate condition, a bargain) which includes an excellent picture of the Red car on its cover, and a two page poster inside. It certainly was a stunning looking racecar. (Having scanned the magazine cover I'd insert the picture here, but don't know how to!).
Apparently, there were 2 cars built originally by Rover at Solihull, and final race preparation by Bill Shaw Racing (who I seem to remember racing one). Finance for the project came from BL Competitions Department in Abingdon.
The car was entered for the 84 hour Marathon de La Route race at The Nurburgring in August 1970.
The car led the race from the start, extending its lead for 16 hours. Eventually when two whole laps in the lead, it suffered a broken gearbox bearing and had to be withdrawn.
It's not mentioned in the article, but I'm sure that Roy Peirpoint and Alex Poole were the drivers, but I'm not certain.

If anyone would like to see the picture, e-mail me and I'll e-mail it back to you.
If you want to buy the magazine, then make me an offer? (Is this allowed in the forums?).

I remember seeing this car at Mallory in about 1970. It won easily a Special Saloon race, Roy Pierrepoint I think.

I have the February 1984 edition of Sporting Cars (in immaculate condition, a bargain) which includes an excellent picture of the Red car on its cover, and a two page poster inside. It certainly was a stunning looking racecar. It's not mentioned in the article, but I'm sure that Roy Peirpoint and Alex Poole were the drivers, but I'm not certain.

Yes, I have this too; great picture of a fabulous car; shame it wasn't seen more often, or developed further. Think you maybe right about the drivers; certainly Pierpoint's name rings a bell in this context.

If you want to buy the magazine, then make me an offer? (Is this allowed in the forums?).

Since this merely an adjunct to the main purpose of your post, no problem if negotiation is done by PMs

Hi, just found the October 1980 edition of Collectors Car magazine on ebay (item number 6985433226).
This appears to feature the Rover 3500S race cars too!

Just thought this picture may be of interest - it's currently racing in NZ.

http://www.groundsky.co.nz/0502WEB/PHOTOS/R31/I31P7432.JPG

Oh another one with the 'Federal' bonnet, (sorry CTCRC in joke). :p

Spotted this for sale on my travels, I have vague memories of it racing back in the 70s, PLEEEEEEESE can someone buy it and race it over here, its still one of the best historic touring cars built,
http://www.roverp6.info/JXC808D.htm

Ian:) :)

Yes, a fabulous machine; we've discussed it before. Would love to see it in action. Although a 'one off', I wonder if the price is not a bit high, given that it would need major work to make trackworthy again!l

Yes, a fabulous machine; we've discussed it before. Would love to see it in action. Although a 'one off', I wonder if the price is not a bit high, given that it would need major work to make trackworthy again!l

Couldn't agree more! It is a great machine but £40,000 asking price! What planet are they on?

:bag:

The link has now crashed my machine twice although I got into it once.

I doubt we will see that here but for P6 fans I can offer this. I was talking to a guy(s) I know at Brands the other day and they are near to completing a replica P6 with the right engine (Traco??) etc for competing in historics overhere. Sounded a good project and I believe from the talk it is nearly ready to go.

That'll be good to see, Al!

The Rover is an awesome looking car and was featured in a thread on Ten-Tenths some months ago. A true Touring Car, built by the factory (with help from BMC Competitions Department if I recall...)
Looks like that garage has some more BMC Competitions Department memorabilia in there, as well though.
I think I can see a Marathon Land Crab, works Healey 3000, and an MGB(or C)GT in there too.
Then there's the mystery object below the grey cover too...

What category would it run in?

Top Hat Class A possible if JT is feeling suitably relaxed about the rules, but more likely classic Thunder ?

ludicrous amount of money though

Its more of a Baby Bertha type than any recognised FIA category. Even Group 5 needed original or at the very least homologated panels. IIRC this car has fully demountable fibreglass panels which were probably not homologated.

The car these guys are building is not as outragius as that I don't believe and will be out with you Peter or Zef so look out for it. I am always surprised mre of these have not been raced, I owned a 3500s once and I though ut was a fine vehicle, it only seems when the SDI came out they started to use the Rover marque. There is one out in the Classic pre 74 that goes quite well.

The rear brakes (which have to remain in the same place as the road car) are inboard and thus fade dramatically in race conditions. Plus the car is heavy so it doesn't worry me from the point of view of speed. Peter Holton runs one and he'll tell you all the problems.

Drive shafts are another issue due to the heat build up in the brakes.

A P6 cannot run in pre 66 but can run in Groovy Baby.

I would have thought the brake problems could be overcome with good ducting, the Jags seem to go alright with a similar set up. Don't know if the DeDion (spelling?) rear set up would be the fly in the ointment, as for weight that surprises me as I thought some of the panels were alloy as of course is the engine. Oh that may have been a Repco engine not a Traco, not sure. I would have thought the one on offer could run in the Classic Thunder OK.

Ha Ha just read the history I was correct on both counts it was either Traco or Repco.

If you read that history piece it was more Leyland politics that stopped development, I still recon they had and indeed still have great potential. Interestingly it was run with a GM Muncie 4 speed as I use in my cars and they are bomb proof.

My point was that it can't run that engine or any changes in either Group 1 or Top Hat. Nor does it qualify for any FIA historic class.

In its group 1 format you can't mess with the brakes etc.

So you can run it fully modified but not in any "historic" category.

Oh well it will be interesting when these guys enter it won't it, maybe we will see them out with us in Pre-74 Post Historics which will be nice.

ALl of this beg the Question . . . Classic Thunder is the only series for heavily modified cars, but that lets in new(ish) cars as well . . .is there room or is it time for a recognised historic modded series ? I'm thinking one that would attract the cars in the period prep, not rebuild with modern guts and an old blob on top like most of the cars are now.

I think its a nice idea but it'lll never happen

well . . .is there room or is it time for a recognised historic modded series ? I'm thinking one that would attract the cars in the period prep, not rebuild with modern guts and an old blob on top like most of the cars are now.

I think its a nice idea but it'lll never happen

Oh, yes please, that would be great. I wonder if there are enough lying around though?

I'd also love to see a historic series for all the old modsports E-types, Elans, TVRS, XKs etc. Trouble is, most have been restored back to original state now, because of their value. Might not be so true of the saloons, however. But as you say, Zef, a nice idea but sadly unlikely to happen.

Oh well it will be interesting when these guys enter it won't it, maybe we will see them out with us in Pre-74 Post Historics which will be nice.

Either I've missed something or you have Al.

They cannot change to a Traco, Repco or other engine. It has to be an original Rover V8 with its original manifolding. I know it was something else before Rover got it.

They cannot lighten or widen the bodywork.

They can improve the brakes and suspension but they can't modify its location etc.

Therefore if your friends are building a replica of the car that started this thread, they'll be unlikely to have anywhere to race it. Sad but true. ;)

Slightly ironic that there are so (too?) many historic series and yet a particular car can't comply with any of them...

A Rover P6 3.5 can and does race in Post Historics.

However the one which prompted this thread was never built to any FIA regs (Unless Group 5 ran beyond 1967). I believe it was a supersaloon that ran in the same events as Gerry Marshall's Big and Baby Bertha machines. There's a whole thread about those cars already and if this car was bought it could possibly run in the race that Racing 59 is trying to get started.

But you have prompted a bit of research.

Frank de Jong is usually a good source for info and the link below seems to show that no Rover entered the 1969 Marathon De La Route.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1969%20Nurburgring%2084hrs.html

The Traco and Repco were just modified Buick engines Peter which were based on the stock unit as I understand, no special head configuration or anything, it is the same as my Penske IROC that was originally fitted with a Traco engine but it would be dead easy to replicate as it is only a Chevy small block as they are merely the tuning company like HT Racing for example. In fact I believe Brian Rice in the UK did the head work for Traco (not 100% sure on that but I know he supplied something or other). These guys preparing this car are old hands so I can guarantee it will be period correct for what ever championship they car to race it in, and Zef for goodness sake don't propose chucking out later model cars from Classic Thinder as I have just let the moths out the wallet to prepare my 87 to be a little more competitive in it.:-(

The Repco F1 engine was 3 litres and (IIRC) twin cam.

Might have trouble if the 3.5 is single cam. ;)

Back to the original car though. I'm not certain it should be advertised as a works car. I'm really unsure that BL even thought about this project, I'm more certain that somebody else built it up for Roy P to drive.

I certainly would not give 40k for it, I thought it did say it had a Traco engine when raced but a Repco was also concidered.

I'll need to check but I'm pretty certain that this car raced with a Traco 4.3 (development of the Buick/Rover 3.5) in period. It was certainly a Traco built engine anyway.

Which in itself would rule it out of the Marathon De La Route.

.... don't know if your interested but i have found some information on the v8 p6 racers.

it's in a copy of the book=
THE ROVER V8 ENGINE (2ND EDITION) by DAVID HARDCASTLE
published by HAYNES PUBLISHING
ISBN 0 85429 961 0
(pages 81-84)
there are also 5 pictures of the shaw/pierpoint car

it says 2 were built (JXC806/808D) in 1970

JXC808D was run by BILL SHAW & ROY PIERPOINT & developed by JOMOCO RACING,BROOKWOOD,SURREY
the engine was called a TRACO-ROVER but was a TRACO-OLDSMOBILE prepared by MATHWALL ENGINEERING,COBHAM,SURREY
engine was 4.3litres/360hp
body was mostly aluminium with fibreglass wheel arches

JXC806D basically the same but it competed in the 1971 NURBURGRING 86 HOUR MARATHON DE LA ROUTE,leading for 16 hrs before retiring
this car afterwards went to AUSTRALIA (1971?)where it raced before being restored

hope this might be of some interest

d-b

I found this post in an old thread which I think should help. I have Hardcastle's book; according to him, the preparation of this car was 'contracted out by BL's Competitions Department at Abingdon', which makes it at least a quasi works car, and that 'it was the responsibility of Bill Shaw and Roy Pierpoint ....... to campaign the car' This was JXC 808D and was used in 'one-off' national saloon car races since nothing like enough could be built to enable it to be homologated for Group 2. In fact only one more was built and that was JXC806D. It was 'essentially the same but built to Group 6 prototype regulations'. As Ian says, it would be an irony if neither of these cars could be raced in any of the current historic classes.

These really are two most spectacular special saloons, pushing out about 360bhp at the time and it would be superb to see either or both in action again.

Ah,

So the reference to 1969 MdlR is incorrect.

Fair enogh. But sadly I still can't see anywhere it could run except perhaps the Deutche Historic Championship which includes some interesting cars.

Peter, I have two separate sources that say it did run in the Marathon de la Route (which in fact, according to Hardcastle, was what it was built for!). The sources however do differ on the year; one says 1970, the other 1971.

Here it is.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1970%20Nurburgring%2084hrs.html

BTW. I meant the 1969 MdlR. All the cars in that were homolgated to FIA regs peobably to App J Group 5 although the Mini's were apparently Group 1.

Yes, I'm not that fast a typist; I was responding to your #26, not #28!

Interesting that for that event, the engine size is quoted as 3532cc. I wonder if that is correct?

Back to the original car though. I'm not certain it should be advertised as a works car. I'm really unsure that BL even thought about this project, I'm more certain that somebody else built it up for Roy P to drive.

Sorry Peter, but I'm sure that these two cars were originally buily by Rover at Solihull, with assistance from BL Competitions in Abingdon. I seem to recall that the job was then farmed out to Bill Shaw Racing afterwards for political reasons. (Internal politics in BL, whatever next?).
I did have an article about these in an old Sporting Cars Magazine, but am sure that I've sold that on Ebay now (along with many old magazines from my youth!).

I'm also sure that Mike Parkes & Roy Pierpoint were mentioned in this article as drivers (if this helps), but then, the article may not have been totally accurate.

I've always had a fascination about these Rovers since seeing a picture of one when they were just built. Thinking what a staid image Rover had at that time, these machines looked awesome to an 11 year old!

Yes it does seem to be "quasi" works. And actually if we look a bit later on at the (I think) Group 6 MGB GT V8, perhaps the first in a line of thought that took the works beyond GT and Group 1.

For my part it still doesn't rank as a "works" effort in the truest sense but hey ho. But awesome, yes.

Viva GT, I have the relevant Sporting Cars issue (Vol 2, No.4 - Feb 1984) in front of me. The article is about 'Wild Rare Rovers' and doesn't devote much (and certainly not enough!) to these cars. It says one of them (but doesn't tell us which one) was indeed built at Solihull, although that could have been simply a standard car that was sent out to Shaw and Pierpoint to develop. Hardcastle is not clear on that (see my earlier post). Pierpoint was indeed the driver but there is no mention of Parkes, who, if memory serves, had left Rootes (and therefore no BL connection) for Ferrari some years before.

It is a shame it is so difficult to find somewhere for the car to race. The local historic touring car series is an amalgamation of the rules of the 2 period classes, however any original, logbooked cars that raced in the period are allowed to race in the spec of the day which for some is significantly more modified than a new car would be allowed, similar to this car. So far there hasn't been a problem with someone taking one of these original cars and winning (let alone winning everything) as they don't tend to be pushed as hard as the replaceable cars they compete against.

it was run with a GM Muncie 4 speed as I use in my cars and they are bomb proof.

Except when the 2nd gear hub wears and it jumps out (grump!)

I do not remember Mike Parkes being involved with this car. Roy Pierpoint, Roger Enever and Clive Baker were the drivers in the Marathon de la Route but Alec Poole was the most regular driver of it.

Viva GT, I have the relevant Sporting Cars issue (Vol 2, No.4 - Feb 1984) in front of me. The article is about 'Wild Rare Rovers' and doesn't devote much (and certainly not enough!) to these cars. It says one of them (but doesn't tell us which one) was indeed built at Solihull, although that could have been simply a standard car that was sent out to Shaw and Pierpoint to develop. Hardcastle is not clear on that (see my earlier post). Pierpoint was indeed the driver but there is no mention of Parkes, who, if memory serves, had left Rootes (and therefore no BL connection) for Ferrari some years before.
Hi John, thanks for clarifying things for me, looks like I must have been wearing my rose tinted spectacles when I read the magazine all those years ago, and remembering what I thought I'd read!
I still retain my fascination for these cars though, remembering what a shock it was to discover that 'Auntie Rover' had been involved with such a project. (Let's face it, despite the rally project with Roger Clark in practically standard 2000's, they hadn't been properly involved in motorsport for years).
Keep up the good work...

Viva did you ever see John Hills beautiful Viva GT he raced with us in the ModProds? Don't know what happened to it but it was a proper car, red with a matt black bonnet. He raced a Manta after that and let me take it around Goodwood, I was very impressed with the stability and handling of the car.

Viva GT, I have the relevant Sporting Cars issue (Vol 2, No.4 - Feb 1984) in front of me. The article is about 'Wild Rare Rovers' and doesn't devote much (and certainly not enough!) to these cars. It says one of them (but doesn't tell us which one) was indeed built at Solihull, although that could have been simply a standard car that was sent out to Shaw and Pierpoint to develop. Hardcastle is not clear on that (see my earlier post)
According to the Bill Price 'BMC/BL Competitions Department' book, the car was built by Bill Shaw (although he contracted much of the work out as he was in the process of moving his workshop) at the request of Peter Browning of the BL Competitions Department- the base car was supplied by Abingdon and had been previously used in a number of rallycross events, driven by Geoff Mabbs. The book earlier mentions these rallycross outings, and refers to the car as having been 'borrowed from Solihull'- that could explain the Solihull reference in the Sporting Cars article.
The Price book suggests that Peter Browning had the Rover P6 in mind as the successor to the Mini- it's interesting to wonder what might have resulted had BL not pulled the plug on the Competitions Department- the closure decision was made only days before the team competed in the Marathon de la Route with the car...
The engine is described in the book as a 4.3 built by Mathwall Engineering using some Traco parts- 365bhp. Traco wwre asked to supply a pair of engines for the project, but these were less powerful- Price quotes 295bhp. The book implies these were built to a lower spec, as it says Traco were asked to tune them 'to give the best power output available with off-the-shelf parts'

Getting either of these cars onto the track racing today, seems (sadly) unlikely, in the light of the comments here. Most of the recent discussion, quite understandably, has been about their history, so I'm now putting this over to the history forum. I will leave the link in, however.

Hi, The Orange Rover in the 'groundsky' picture belongs to Mall Clark of Auckland New Zealand and is currently having a bit of a rebuild after falling off the black stuff and climbing a barrier.

Sorry, could not insert the picture I have of his car.

John.

One of the ex-Works Rovers came to Australia (1972?) and was campaigned by Jim Smith. It ran with Camel Cigarettes sponsorship in its later years and was dubbed "Clarrie the Wonder Camel". It later went to Vimy Ridge Racing (Jarrett's) in SA and I beleive is currently under restoration by its current owner. If anyone knows Ivan Partinase (spelling?) please let him know of this thread.

Or if anyone knows how to contact Jim Smith, he is the Lambo importer for Australia.

Cheers

Camaroz there was an article about that car in the Aust Muscle Car magazine a couple of years ago if you haven't seen it

Good to see that the Rover look,s the same as when I,d finnished the restoration!.Every body panel came off,including the roof which was standard ally.Engine size ,in fact is 4.2,and there were 2 cars built,the one in the photo ,plus a two door version,now in Oz .The car has sat[untill it was sold] in my ex-boss,es collection since the early 80s,never turned a wheel after i,d road tested it ! The MGC on the Right of the picture is an Ex-works Replica,originally owned by Collin Pearcy,It was originally finnished in TartanRed,but we decided to repaint it the way the work,s did,just an outside paint job basically ,left the engine bay,doorshuts etc in Red to replicate what the work,s did after they were told that the various cars had to be in thier respective countrys colours!The Healey [top right] in the picture is the Ex-works car of Donald Grimshaw,the subject of a full resto job before it went into the collection.The Landcrab,Ex-works and bought from Phillip Young ,who Started Sporting Car,s Magazine ,and was to become a good friend after countless visits to the collection.The Red Wheel next to the Crab is from one of the BASTOS SD1,s.[The subject of another thread] Yes ,it would be good to see these cars out again,makes you wonder how many Special Saloons are left doe,snt it ?Both Rovers were Nicholson built

Interesting post Terrence but where is the pictures to go with it:rotate: Incidently have you spoke with David Tetley or advised him any way on his P6 project?

Hi Al,I have posted on his thread and given the info he required but he seem ,s to have dissapeared!!

No point in posting pictures,the car has not changed since I finnished it.

Viva GT, I have the relevant Sporting Cars issue (Vol 2, No.4 - Feb 1984) in front of me. The article is about 'Wild Rare Rovers' and doesn't devote much (and certainly not enough!) to these cars. It says one of them (but doesn't tell us which one) was indeed built at Solihull, although that could have been simply a standard car that was sent out to Shaw and Pierpoint to develop. Hardcastle is not clear on that (see my earlier post). Pierpoint was indeed the driver but there is no mention of Parkes, who, if memory serves, had left Rootes (and therefore no BL connection) for Ferrari some years before.

Philip Young wanted to drive it,but it was decided it was best that he did,nt!

For those of you who are interested in Rover P6 - visit my website http://www.RoverP6.info

Regards to all from Germany,
Rudiger

Have a look at this post I started last year, it may help.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82585&highlight=p6

Ian

He was after the Chassis number of JXC806D which was imported by Leyland Australia and raced by James Smith in 1971 and later became the Camel Rover. The log book has been lost.

Huw on Atlas said.....The ex press car (JXC808D) was the one used for rallycross before becoming the first prototype racer built by Morgan and Rose, fitted with a 4.3 Traco Olds. this was sold to Alec Poole who raced it in Ireland. This car was red.


A pic of JXC808D in rallycross guise has just turned up in a thread on the rally/rallycross forum
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1985046&postcount=21

Hmm, well, it's the same registration, but obviously looking nothing like the racing car turned out.
Now I do know that manufacturers have a habit of using the same identity for a number of different competiton vehicles, and my guess is that the only connection between both cars is the registration number.

See my sites http://www.roverp6.info/Fotos/exWorksRacer/exWorksRacerAUS.htm and http://www.roverp6.info/JXC808D.htm

Good to see the Old Girl looks just as good as day I finished the Restoration!

Hmm, well, it's the same registration, but obviously looking nothing like the racing car turned out.
Now I do know that manufacturers have a habit of using the same identity for a number of different competiton vehicles, and my guess is that the only connection between both cars is the registration number.

Everything I've read about JXC806D says that the rallycross car (a pretty standard ex-Rover press fleet car from Solihull) became the racer- of course, how much of the original chassis actually remained in the finished article is another matter.....;)

Description from Peter Browning, quoted on Rudiger's site:

My trip to Solihull was not entirely wasted as I came home the proud „owner“ of JXC 808D, a somewhat secondhand 2000 from the Rover press fleet.
Without doing too much to the car we whisked it off to a rallycross meeting where it was driven with great verve by Geoff Mabbs who could not resist placing a bowler hat, furled umbrella and a copy of the Financial Times on the rear parcel shelf! In virtually standard 2000 form the Rover, thank God, did not disgrace herself and one Rover Director actually phoned me on the Monday morning expressing mild pleasure! Before Mabbs could get too enthusiastic, we started on Stage 2.
Time was vitally important and we realised that trying to build JXC 808D into a club racer at Abingdon at that particular time would be fraught with problems. Rover engineers would probably have a heart attack had they seen what we were doing and, in any case, we did not exactly want the world and his wife to know about our plans.....

JXC 808D moved to Pierpoint´s garage in Walton-on-Thames where it was set upon by two ex-Alan Mann mechanics, Jim Morgan and Jim Rose.
The car was gutted and upon the standard chassis was built a new lightweight racing body with flaved wings and wheel arches. The weight was reduced to around 950kg. Front suspension was modified with fabricated lower wishbones and PFTE bushes were used throughout. Ventilated disc brakes were fitted front and rear and 10ins Minilite rims carried Dunlop racing tyres.

http://www.roverp6.info/TestGB/P6RacerII.htm

Have a look at this post I started last year, it may help.
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82585&highlight=p6

Ian

I have now merged the two threads; in fact I might take some of these posts to add the subject to the chassis archive, at some stage!

found this today,
http://www.teamwillpower.org/

485bhp from a 5ltr Rover sounds a bit optomistic unless its a Wildcat

Pay attention Ian;) , I think I posted that about 200 posts ago, thats Dave Tetley's project.

Ooops,:nyah2: :nyah2: :nyah2: Thats the trouble with working nights, I am about 200 posts behind everybody else
Ian :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

We'll forgive you, it was worth a bump anyhow, fasinating project I wonder how its going?