Lotus 59 & 69

Matter of time I suppose, but we've not had much discussion of this staple of early 70s F3 and Atlantic.

Can someone help me with information about the Lotus 69 and the difference between the 1970 and 71 models [designated 71/69 on the chassis plate]. First question is was the 1970 model a space-frame and the 71 model something else – I presume a plated space-frame rather than a monocoque.

I’m trying to work out the histories of Lotus 69s in Atlantic and FB [not helped by many 59s used in the formula being updated to 69 spec. My chief interest at the moment is in Ian Mawby’s cars used in Britain.

In 1972 Mawby uses an ex Wisell 1971 car which was built to F.B spec but used in F2, [71/69.FB.8] but at a Libre race at Brands in November he ‘writes off’ the car at the start. However the following week he’s back for another Libre race. In MN 14.12.72 Mawby says that he won in ‘the ex Wisell spaceframe that he completed after his start line shunt the previous weekend’. Given that he is talking about a replacement car, which is also ‘ex Wisell’, are we talking about him using another Wisell car rather than his 1971 model?
Funnily enough this was available for him because Stephen Choularton had used in Atlantic in 1972 Wisell’s first 1971 car [69.F2.1] [described as ex Fittipaldi – who used it in 1970 – and Pau winner, Wisell 1971 – and had it for sale from mid October 1972. This would be the earlier type of the car, and presumably a spaceframe where the other wasn't [exactly...]

Which ever car it is Mawby has another really big accident at Snetterton in 73 and the remains were sold to John Bicht who used them as the basis of his Swift [perhaps John can confirm this] and eventually taken to the USA.

Reminiscences, observations, complete Lotus build records all appreciated.

Chris

Now I'm by no means an expert, so take everything I say with a health warning attached.

The spaceframe 69s used from in F3 and Atlantic '71 onwards were, I think, essentially the same as the 1970 version. They looked a bit different as the external profile of the chassis was altered to accomodate bag-type fuel tanks (the same thing happened with Brabham when they updated the BT28 to become the BT35).

F2 cars were, of course, something else. They were monocoque from 1970 onwards. That was the true 69, and it was for F2 only (until later life). The other 69s were really updated 59s. It always struck me as being a bit odd that the spaceframe jobs were suddenly called 69s by virtue of acquiring the pointy front end and other new body work from the monocoque car. Perhaps there were some other changes too, but I suspect they were not very substantial. And does anyone remember the Formula Ford version - as won in a competition by one Tiff Needell?

I saw Steve Choularton's car at an Atlantic race at Oulton. My memory of things from those days is fading fast, but I am ALMOST certain it looked like the monocoque 69, which was rounded in shape and not the angular re-tanked spaceframe type as described above. So it seems like a pukka ex-F2 car, and quite possibly ex-Wissel, Fittipaldi or whatever.

DMF

Choularton's car was certainly ex F2, run in 1969 and 70, so would then have been a monocoque. The Wisell car run by LIRA later in 1970 was built originally as FB, so might have been a spaceframe. This was the first [and perhaps only] car used by Mawby. What you say suggests that if he did build a new car, he didn't do so from the Choularton car, which is perhaps, then, the Don Robinson hillclimb car.

Chris

Reminiscences, observations, complete Lotus build records all appreciated.Does that mean you have partial Lotus build records? I have a few bits I'd be happy to transcribe if they would be helpful.

Allen

Can anyone provide chassis information about a Lotus 69-F2 fitted with a 2.0 Ford BDG and driven by Clive Astley at Longridge sprint on 18/06/78?

It is the only Lotus 69 to have taken part in the British Sprint Championship!

Ta!

:unworthy:

Did not Chris Morris use a 69 in sprints and hill climbs/????? I think it was the Moonaker car.

Ted - I think you are right. I seem to remember it had the full Moonraker body work. As per previous post on this thread the Astley 69 is the only one to compete in the British Sprint Championship (i.e. Morris never registered). :cool:

Is this the same Chris Morris who raced in monoposto in the early 1980's in the exCarlo Giorgio/Terry Mills March?

Yes the same chap.Was rebuilding a 911 last time we spoke.

Just to bring this back to life, here's a link to an older Lotus 69 thread on TNF (http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56843).

Chris - any chance of an update on where you've got to?

Allen

Albert Clement's Lotus 69 at Brands Superprix, 6 May, 2006

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1183/brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may2.th.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may2.jpg)

Oh goodie, now I get to decipher all my notes from bits and pieces and stuff from Allen and Chris and enter it in a coherent form.
Yes please keep the 59's away from the 69's .

I've just started to reach Lotus 69 territory in the libre research and have found an interesting comment tucked away in the report (AS 23 Jul 1970 p45) on the Ingliston libre on 19 July 1970. It says that "Johnny Blades was having trouble with his now 69-ised F2 Lotus". So how many F2 Lotuses did he have?!

Allen

A good picture of the car Autosport 13 Aug 1970 p23. Race Report 1970 has a typo over the chassis number of Blades 59B when it appeared early in 1970 but I assume the number 59-F2-21 in F1R can be relied upon. I'll keep a close eye on Blades' libre entries from here on.

I know a second opinion is always useful so, as I'm in here anyway, Race Report gives the 1970 Lotus 69s as:
Fittipaldi 69-F2-1
Ikuzawa 69-F2-2
Potocki 69-F2-3
Rindt and Solor-Roig 69-F2-4

Allen

A good picture of the car Autosport 13 Aug 1970 p23. Race Report 1970 has a typo over the chassis number of Blades 59B when it appeared early in 1970 but I assume the number 59-F2-21 in F1R can be relied upon. I'll keep a close eye on Blades' libre entries from here on.

I know a second opinion is always useful so, as I'm in here anyway, Race Report gives the 1970 Lotus 69s as:
Fittipaldi 69-F2-1
Ikuzawa 69-F2-2
Potocki 69-F2-3
Rindt and Solor-Roig 69-F2-4

Allen

Did wilson Fittipaldi also drive Chassis 69-F2-1?

I have a feeling this went on to Johnny Blades as I seem to remember it at Thruxton.

:)

The 1971 Mallory F2 report said that Wilson F "has bought the ex-Rindt chassis and will run it as a privateer this year". So that would be 69-F2-4.

Blades reemerges at a libre at Croft 30 August 1971, still with his 59/69 but now with a 1900cc Alan Smith FVC.

Allen

OK, this is odd. Bobby Howlings sells an "ex-Graham Hill" Lotus 69 to Brian Classick in Sep 1971. Classick races it once at Oulton Park in October.

Anyone know what that would be?

Allen

Ps Just spotted Classick advertising it as ex-Rindt 25 Nov 1971

This is the current state of my 59-69 research and I've deliberately posted 59 series here to highlight the problem of what's a 59 and what's a 69
Most 59s after chassis 30 seem to become 69s.
Before having a separate thread for 59s I think we need to define where the break is.
There are some anomalies here - notably in Blades' CARS, which LIRA cars went where, and Mawby's cars in 73. But it's a start

Lotus 59/69 series

59-F3-1 Debut Boxing Day 1968, Brands Hatch driven by John Miles. Loaned to Mike Spence team 1969 for Mike Beckwith, then to Lotus Components. 1970 loaned to Tony Trimmer.

59-F3-2 1969 works car for Roy Pike then to the Spence team for Ikuzawa. 1970 Mike Stow for David Cole. 1971 Geddes Yeates [described as ‘ex Cole’].

59-F3-3 1969 works car for Mo Nunn; 1970 works car for Bev Bond and then perhaps Tony Trimmer’s car in the Brazilian series. 1971 works car for Dave Walker. 1972 Alan Edgar and then to Rod Pickering. Perhaps the ‘ex Walker’ car sold to Bill Brack for FB in 1974.

59-F3-4 1969 works car for Roy Pike. 1970 works car for Dave Walker. 1971 perhaps to Alan McCully. If so then Geddes Yeates’ car in 1972 [described as ex McCully, so not his 1971 car.] However see AS 21.10.71 Walker's Brazil car went to McCully and the Bond/Trimmer [Brazil] car was the basis of Walker's 1971 car]

59-F3-5 1969 works car for Mo Nunn, probably retained by works 1970. 1971 perhaps to Transco Racing. 1972 Transco Racing: Barrie Maskell [described as ex Nunn, and chassis given AS report of Silverstone Shell F3 round 23/4/72]

59-F3-6 1969 perhaps Freddy Kottulinsky [inferred on appearance date, if so retained 1970

59-F3-7 1969 Sten Axelsson for Rolf Tellsten; retained by Axelsson in 1970.

59-F3-8 1969 Jim Russell for Emerson Fittipaldi and Dave Walker. 1970 perhaps Tom Walkinshaw; 1971 to Reg James; 1972: Ian Smillie [Scottish H/C 'ex Fittipaldi' AS 6.4.72 p. 41] FS Low Cost Racing AS 8.6.72 -> Fergus Tait [F4 Sept]

59-FB-9 1969 Lotus East for Robert Hébert; perhaps retained 1970/71 and rebuilt to 69B spec.

10 not known
11 not known

59-FB-12 1969 Duchess Auto USA

59-FB-13 1969 USA

59-FB-14 1969 Leo Geohagen, AUS; retained 1970

59-FB-15 1969 USA

16 not known
17 not known
18 not known

59-F2-19 1969 Winkelmann for Jochen Rindt and Alan Rollinson

59-F2-20 1969 Winkelmann for Graham Hill/John Miles/Roy Pike. 1970 fitted with DFV by Pete Lovely.

59-F2-21 1969 Max Moseley; 1970 to Johnnie Blades and run in libre and F2 rounds. Perhaps retained until 1973 and then to Barton, but Blades seems to have a variety of 59s and 69s, and the identities of some become blurred.

59-F3-22 1969 Lars Elgen [chassis number given in MN] 1970 Rolf Tellsten AS 16.10.69 p. 6 says ex Elgen.

59-FB-23 1969 Bill Brack as sales agent which suggests Don Merriman’s car in Canadian championship

59-FB-24 USA

25 not known
26 not known

59-FB-27 USA

28 not known

59-FB-29 USA. By 1974 run as a Jim Russell school car in USA to FF spec.

30 not known

59/69-31-F3 not known before 1971 when chassis number given for Ricky von Opel’s F3 car. Travisco Racing: Ross Ambrose [AS 16.3.72 p.4, ‘ex von Opel’]

59-XF3-FB-32 Unknown in period, for sale in Quebec in early 2000s.

33 not known
34 not known
35 not known
36 not known

59/69-37-F3 1970 Andy Sutcliffe F3; retained 1971 [chassis number given MN 2.9.71 p. 11]; 1972 Jonny Dimsdale, F.Atlantic [chassis number noted 1972 by AF] taken to Macau GP at end of season; damaged in accident and perhaps left there.

59/69-XB/F3-38 1970 to Peter Wardle for FF 1600. 1971 rebuilt by Peter Wardle for Atlantic series, retained 1972. Sold to Gary Ainscough 1973 and used in S.African series

69-39-F3 1970 works F3 team “mule”; 1971 Gerry Birrell/Richard Longman

59-F2/XB-40 1970 Lotus East, perhaps for Robert Hébert, otherwise Fred Stephenson

59-F2/XB-41 1970 to Bill Brack as agent; perhaps for Craig Hill [May 1970] and then to Max Nerrière, 1971

59-F2/XB-42 1970 to JRDS. Perhaps Jacques Couture’s car in 1970 N. American series. 1971 perhaps JRDS team spare and loaned to Eligio Siconolfi in Canadian series.

59-XB/F2-43 1970 Claude Bourgoignie as F.Ford

44 not known

59-XF3/FF-45 1971 Geddes Yeates in S. African “Sunshine” FF series, then to Terry Bengis. 1972 Roy Klomfass

59-XF3/FF-46 1971 Formato in S. African “Sunshine” FF series

69.F2.1 1970 Emerson Fittipaldi for Euro F2 championship with Bardahl sponsorship. 1971 Reine Wisell [AS 8.4.71 p.10] no. given as 2 'ex Bardahl/Fittipaldi] given as 1 15.4.71 p.7
1972 Stephen Choularton [FAt] FS 12.10.72 AS p. 55 British Vita Racing Lotus 69 ex Fittipaldi ex Wisell; "Pau winning car" Maybe sold to Mawby late season.

69-F2-2 1970 Tetsu Ikuzawa for Euro F2 championship. 1971 John Pollock, perhaps retained 1972. 1973: Paddy Farrelly [MN 22.3.73] ex Pollock AS 12.4.73 p.16 For sale in NI 22.9.77 A/S p.62 'virtually unused last 4 years'

69.F2-3 1970 Adam Potocki retained 1971

69-F2-4 1970 Jochen Rindt [F1R]; Alex Soler-Roig; 1972: Brian Classic [ex Rindt used by Willie Green at Croft FL May 14 MN]-> John Coulter; 1973: Johnny Blades [f/s ex Rindt AS 15.3.73 p.59]

69.F2.5 1970 John Miles/Graham Hill/Eugenio Bautrone; 1971 Wilson Fittipaldi [AS 8.4.71 p.10] ex Hill

69.F2.6 1970 not known; 1971 Johnny Blades [AS 8.4.71 p.10 chassis no given] [but at Thruxton has 59.F2.21 described as updated; see also 69-F2-4 perhaps Rindt car for sale by Blades in 1973

69.F2.7 1970 David McConnell [FB] taken to Tasman series, chassis number given by Sargeant website.


71/69.1.F2 Tetsu Ikuzawa [AS 8.4.71 p.10]; Roni Rossi (Temporada F2); Johnny Blades selling ex Ikuzawa 69 AS 15.3.73 p. 59

71/69.2.F2 Irish Racing Cars: Alan Rollinson [AS 8.4.71 p.10]/E. Fittipaldi Torneio series [MN]; 1972 John Pollock; 1973 Johnny Blades selling Fittipaldi's Brazil series Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21]

71/69.3.F2 LIRA: Gerry Birrell/François Migault; Ferrerira [Torneio series MN]

71/69.4.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott; perhaps the McGarrity/O’Leary car then 1977/78 Colin Thorpe and then to Craig Dennis

71/69.5.F2 Emerson Fittipaldi retained 1972 then 1973 Andy Barton; described as 71/69.5.F2 in AS ad 1976; Dave Muter [ex Barton AS 24.3.77 p. 47] f/s AS 5.10.78 p. 68 chassis no given 0670 823248

71/69.14.F2 Emerson Fittipaldi [AS 29.4.71 p.14 completely new at Pau GP] given by F1R, used again in 1972; possibly another incarnation of chassis 5.

71/69.18.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott [AS 8.4.71 p.10] new Hockenheim, given F1R; Patsy McGarrity 1972 ‘ex Scott, LIRA’; Dermot O'Leary [‘ex McGarrity MN 22.3.73] retained 1974, see chassis 4

71-69.1 1971 Chris Oates [FAt] [build record sheet via Bryan Miller] 1972 Bernard Hunter [FAt/FL]; 1973 John Barr [ex Hunter/Oates AS 27.9.73 p. 46] retained 1974 then perhaps Bob Rollo.

71/69.1.FB 1971 “Couture” perhaps Jacques Couture’s 1971 car, given that his name is on build sheet, unlike the other JRDS car.

71/69.2.FB 1971: Bill Monson [FB]

71/69.3.FB 1971 JRDS/Couture Canada. Probably the Russell team’s other car for David McConnell in 1971

71/69.4.FB 1971: J. Silver [USA]

71/69.5.FB 1971 Craig Hill [FB] retained 1972; 1973 Ron Shantz [CAN FB]

71/69.6.FB 1971 Lotus East for Fred Stephenson [FB] [A/S 25.3.71 p. 5 'Stephenson, runner up in the 1969 FB championship and a director of Lotus Racing East will be doing the full 1971 series under the LRE banner with a works supported 69]

71/69.7.FB 1971 Carl Hogan to Tom Coconis; retained by Coconis family until rolled into a ball by Tim Coconis at Watkins Glen SCCA meeting in 1977; rebuilt and sold on race-cars.com in about 2001.

71/69.8.FB 1971: LIRA: Reine Wisell [MN noted chassis no. Interlagos 31.10.71] 1972 Ian Mawby [FAT/R50,000 chassis number given] w/o Brands, November but managed to build another one up for FL Brands 10.12.72. MN 14.12.72 p. 20 Mawby points out that he won in 'the ex Wisell spaceframe' that he completed after his start line shunt the previous weekend' Did he buy the Choularton car in order to do this? 71.69.8.FB would have been a monocoque car. If so that car, rather than the 71/69.8 maybe the car destroyed by Mawby at Snetterton in 1973.

71/69.9.FB 1971: Built for stock; maroon

71/69.10.FB 1971: Built for stock, red

71/69.11.FB 1971: Built for stock, white. F/S by Lotus MN 16.3.72 p.17 69 FB spec, new, white body panels. Perhaps to Geoff Rollason 'the very last Lotus to be made for a private customer, a 69 FB chassis' MN 15.6.72 p.28 and it's white

71/69.12.FB 1971: Built for stock, navy blue. F/S by Lotus MN 16.3.72 p.17 69 FB spec, new, blue body panels. Same ad carries an ex Fittipaldi F2 car and ex Wisell F2/FB spec car, presumably chassis 8

71/69. 1.F3 1971: Francisco Noë

71/69.2.F3
71/69.3.F3
71/69.4.F3

71/69.5.F3 1971 Harald Ertl, retained 1972

71/69.6.F3
71/69.7.F3

71/69.8.F3 1971 Manfred Mohr

71/69.9.F3
71/69.10.F3

71/69.11.F3 Not known before 1973 when observed on the car of Victor Bohm, running in Atlantic at Oulton with a Vegantune t/c engine and F3 wheels.

That's rather an impressive list. I had only counted one Blades Lotus 69 so far - you've got five!

Johnny Blades 69s make Tommy Reid's BT30s look like a walk in the park!

Allen

Chris

I have one obscure libre contestant that I can't see in your list. Silverstone 30 Sep 1972 (AS 5 Oct 1972 p20) - second place was Bryan Small "having his first race in the ex-Stanton/Birrell Lotus 69 Eden BDA".

Which one would that be?

Allen

Any thoughts on Ken Smith's (NZ) 59?
He once told me its c/no was "FL2" which doesn't tie in with anything sensible
He also said he'd bought it from "the president of the BRDC or someone" - I suggested Johnny Blades and he said no...

2002 May 18th, Bonhams, Monaco, Lotus 59 chassis no.25 E19,550

I've just checkd Bonhams web site but it only goes back to 2003 so no details sadly. FB?

69/F3/31 ex Rikki von Opel

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lotuses.htm
(&, 71-69-4-F2, 71/69/17FF, 71/69/9)

Feels like I've crossed over to the dark side posting here,:ill:

69/F3/31 ex Rikki von Opel

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lotuses.htm
(&, 71-69-4-F2, 71/69/17FF, 71/69/9)

Feels like I've crossed over to the dark side posting here,:ill:

John Crook of Paul Matty Lotus runs an F3 Lotus 69 which is supposed to be the ex-von Opel car. I will ask John about the chassis number and any supportive history.

:cool:

Chris

A couple of observations:

59-F2-20 1969 Winkelmann for Graham Hill/John Miles/Roy Pike. 1970 fitted with DFV by Pete Lovely. The Pete Lovely car was reported by Motor Sport and Autocourse to be 69.F2.5.

59-F2-21 1969 Max Moseley; 1970 to Johnnie Blades and run in libre and F2 rounds. Perhaps retained until 1973 and then to Barton, but Blades seems to have a variety of 59s and 69s, and the identities of some become blurred. He appears to use the same Lotus 69-FVA to the end of 1972 and only then starts branching out (with Coulter's 69-BDA and then his ex-Emerson 69-BDE).

69-F2-4 1970 Jochen Rindt [F1R]; Alex Soler-Roig; 1972: Brian Classic [ex Rindt used by Willie Green at Croft FL May 14 MN]-> John Coulter; 1973: Johnny Blades [f/s ex Rindt AS 15.3.73 p.59] Could this be the Wilson Fittipaldi car in 1971? I know it means Autosport 8.4.71 being wrong but Wilson's car was described as ex-Rindt when he bought it. I agree this car goes to Blades because there's a note in AS (19 Oct 1972 p63) that Blades rents Coulter's Lotus 69-BDA for the end-of-year Ingliston libre. It would then be the ex-Rindt car he advertises in March 1973. This car is first mentioned (AS 7 Oct 1971 p25) when Howlings sells it to Classick. Autosport 3 Aug 1972 p35 confirms that it then goes to Coulter.

69.F2.5 1970 John Miles/Graham Hill/Eugenio Bautrone; 1971 Wilson Fittipaldi [AS 8.4.71 p.10] ex Hill I do wonder about this car going to Wilson F as the story I recall from my F1 research was that Lovely acquired 69.F2.5 from the factory.

69.F2.6 1970 not known; 1971 Johnny Blades [AS 8.4.71 p.10 chassis no given] Blades advertises his 59B/69 as being built in 1970 so I suppose it's possible Lotus allocated a new chassis number to the car when they updated it. Replacing the whole centre section is bigger than the average upgrade (Booboo) so a new number is distinctly possible. [/COLOR]

When Blades advertises two Lotus 69s in March 1973, the ex-Rindt one is said to have a FT200 and is significantly more expensive than the ex-Ikusawa car that has a Mk 8 box. Do those gearboxes give a clue to whether it's an upgraded 59B, a 1970 spec 69 or a 1971 spec 69? I find the "ex-Ikusawa" description utterly perplexing.

The Irish 69s

69-F2-2 1970 Tetsu Ikuzawa for Euro F2 championship. 1971 John Pollock, perhaps retained 1972. 1973: Paddy Farrelly [MN 22.3.73] ex Pollock AS 12.4.73 p.16 For sale in NI 22.9.77 A/S p.62 'virtually unused last 4 years' [B] I can't tell whether Pollock gets a different Lotus 69 for 1972 but it is referred to as "new veteran" in August (AS 3 Aug 1972 p38) implying it's the same car he's had throughout.

71/69.2.F2 Irish Racing Cars: Alan Rollinson [AS 8.4.71 p.10]/E. Fittipaldi Torneio series [MN]; 1972 John Pollock; 1973 Johnny Blades selling Fittipaldi's Brazil series Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21] There are definitely two cars mixed up together here. I have trouble believing Emerson used the ex-IRC Lotus 69 at the Torneio. Surely it's more likely that the IRC car went back to Ireland and Emerson was in 71/69.5.F2. There is a third Lotus 69 in Ireland in 1973 (Walter Kinnear) which makes it more likely that this car stayed in Ireland. What's your reference for the IRC car being with Pollock in 1972?

71/69.4.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott; perhaps the McGarrity/O’Leary car then 1977/78 Colin Thorpe and then to Craig Dennis It really looks like this and 71/69.4.F2 are the same car doesn't it? Lotus getting confused with their own numbering system again?

71/69.18.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott [AS 8.4.71 p.10] new Hockenheim, given F1R; Patsy McGarrity 1972 ‘ex Scott, LIRA’; Dermot O'Leary [‘ex McGarrity MN 22.3.73] retained 1974, see chassis 4

All comments gratefully received.

Allen

The Bryan Small car was 71/69.3.F2, Small sold it to Roy Baker in 1973. Then to Ken Fildes 1974 [driven by Jordan] then to Warren Booth in 1975.

Will be heading back to NNPL week after next to check all my F2 references from 70-71 but the reference to Emmo using the Rollinson 69 in Brazil is in Motoring News report on the first round of the series there, so has to be taken seriously.

Is Johnny Blades still around?

Chris

So presumably this is 59-F3-4? Dave Walker's car at Thruxton, 20 September 1970 for the Yellow Pages Formula 3 Europe Cup race. Very creased and faded photo, I'm afraid (if I find the neg, I'll see if that is any better!). I've not trimmed it too much as I rather like the Jurgen Jonsson equipe van in the background; very period!

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1152/img695b9nx.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img695b9nx.jpg)

The Bryan Small car was 71/69.3.F2, Small sold it to Roy Baker in 1973. Then to Ken Fildes 1974 [driven by Jordan] then to Warren Booth in 1975.Thanks for this. The Irish really liked their Lotus 69s didn't they. Does that make four in Ireland?

the reference to Emmo using the Rollinson 69 in Brazil is in Motoring News report on the first round of the series there, so has to be taken seriously.OK, that's pretty compelling. Does MN say why he was using Rollinson's car?

Is Johnny Blades still around?John Blades is a more common name than I would have expected. 53 of them in the electoral role. JohnBlades.co.uk is owned by a Northumbria tailor. I wonder if Dan could track him down through his contacts?

Allen

John Blades is a more common name than I would have expected. 53 of them in the electoral role. JohnBlades.co.uk is owned by a Northumbria tailor. Well stap me! It's the same man. According to this page (http://www.dbracing.org.uk/newsarchive.htm), "our" John Blades "specialises in Gents quality wear" so that would mean he must surely be this John Blades (http://www.johnbladestailoring.co.uk/html/location.html). Telephone and email address on the page.

Next!

Allen

Peter Studer (Switzerland) had this car at Brands Hatch this weekend. Fitted with a BDA for the F2 race, it looked very attractive in Red and Gold Gold Leaf Team Lotus colours.

The F1R Fact Books on F3 record the following additions to your list. (NB these books only rarely give chassis numbers and these are understood to be from “on the day” sightings)

59-F3-8 Walkinshaw Silverstone 4-4-70
59-F3-11 James Hunt Oulton 22-8-70
59-F3-25 Carlos Pace Snetterton 15-3-70, Silverstone 5-4-70,Oulton 22-8-70
59-F3-28 Fritz Jordan Oulton 22-8-70 (Jordan does not start until July but the chassis number indicates an early season car. From somewhere (probably Autosport) I noted this being an ex-Lotus Components car)
59-F3-34 Wilson Fittipaldi Oulton 22-8-70

69-F3-39 Gerry Birrell Brands 21-3-71, R Longman on loan from Lotus Components 3-4-71, and G Naddeo Oulton 21-8-71
69-F3- 46 Barrie Maskell Mallory 29-5-72
69-F3-47 Dave Walker Cadwell 18-7-71

71/69 1.F3 retained by Noe to at least 20-8-72. Attributed to F Togna 16-4-72 and R Manzoni 10-9-72 when Noe not listed.
71/69.3.f3 Cesare Doneda /Sc Delta Corse Monza 11-3-72 & 21-4-72. B Pescia 23-7-72 to at least 10-9-72
71/69.10.F3 Lella Lombardi Monza etc11-3-72, 25-5-72, 6-8-72, 20-8-72, 10-9-72
71/69.12.F3 R Marazzi 29-5-72 Ettore Ricci 23-7-72, 6-8-72, 10-9-72
71/69.21.F3 C Francisci /Sc Nettuno 29-5-72, “Guido” / Sc Meneghina 3-9-72 & 10-9-72

Autosport records both the Gold Leaf/Team Lotus drivers Bond and Walker getting new cars in May 70, presumably having started the year with #3 and #4. From somewhere I have Bond in 59-F3-10 and Walker in 59-F3-14. #14 conflicts with your allocation of this number to Geohagen, assuming that the F3 and FB cars were in a single sequence.

RAP

Here at Hadfield Towers we have 71/69 1 F2 now belonging to Lord Laidlaw,& 71/69 5/14 F2 (yes they are the same car) now belonging to Frank Sytner. The ex Emerson car is quite remarkable in having with it virtually all its Richard Divillia 2 litre special bits still with it (and the tall sided cockpit still has both Andy Barton and Dave Muter identification!)

69.F2.7 1970 David McConnell [FB] taken to Tasman series, chassis number given by Sargeant website.Bruce Sergent uses the number 'R7', a number he may have lifted from Vercoe's "Golden Era" as other data seems to have come from there. However, Vercoe calls it a Lotus 59, not a 69. Of course Lotus 59 chassis R7 makes no sense at all. Bruce did acknowledge the Vercoe books when I talked to him about his Tasman data.

Autocourse call McConnell's car a 1850cc Lotus 69 and Autosport refer to it as a very tidy Jim Russell Lotus 69. So it could be also be another contender for 59-F2/XB-42 rather than being in the F2/70 series.

Perhaps David saw it.

Allen

Perhaps David saw it.

Yes he did
But if he noted its chassis number he has no longer any record of it
The car's listed in the programmes as a Lotus 69, 1600cc

I know I have a nasty habit of digging over old ground but I've come back to 69/71.2.F2 again.

Firstly, Lotus production records show '7169 2F2' going to 'Irish Racing ….. A Rollinson)' - my copy's a bit faded but good enough. Secondly, Autosport (8 Apr 1971 pp10-13) gives the number 69-71-2 at Hockenheim, Rollinson's only appearance in the car. But then it gets wierd. The IRC Lotus 69 doesn't appar again that season and Rollinson races a F5000 Surtees instead. Then, at the Torneio Brasiliero in November, Emerson Fittipaldi is said to be in "his faithful" Lotus 69 but the number is given as 69/71.2.F2, not 69/71.18.F2. Given the "his faithful", I have real trouble believing that he is really in the long-lost IRC car.

Then in 1972 I had Jay Pollock in the ex-IRC/Rollinson Lotus 69 at Mondello on 30 Apr. I just checked this in Autosport in case there was a clue where the car had been and it turns out I've got it completely wrong. It's actually John Pollock in his regular Team Ireland Lotus 69, a 1970 model. I've quickly fixed that.

Barton later had an ex-Fittipaldi/Torneio car but if Emerson's car was 18.F2, not 2.F2, Blades doesn't come into this either. Simon has found Blades' name on the bodywork of 18.F2.

So where did the IRC/Rollinson Lotus 69 go after its one and only appearance? Competitive F2 cars don't just vanish.

Allen

Sorry - I've said 18.F2 twice there where I mean 14.F2 as the identity of Emerson's regular Lotus 69 (that started life as 5.F2). 18.F2 was the LIRA car otherwise known as 4.F2. It's not easy!

Johnny Blades selling "Fittipaldi's Brazil series" Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21], coupled with Simon's discovery suggests that Emmo took 14 to Brazil and that the chassis no got scrambled.

Barton Described as 71/69.5.F2 in AS ad 1976] to Dave Muter [ex Barton AS 24.3.77 p. 47] Dave Muter: F/S AS 5.10.78 p. 68 chassis no given 0670 823248

Chris

The car number 59XB-F2-29 is in my garage right now . one thing I don’t understand is if this was a FF why does it have knock off wheels , from the pictures I’ve seen the FF 59 had a four bolt wheel on .

69.F2-3 1970 Adam Potocki retained 1971

Alain Saidi had a F2 Lotus 69 in French hillclimbs 1972/73 and I just stumbled across this thread (http://memoiresdestands.hautetfort.com/archive/2005/05/31/adam_potocki_dans_l_actualite.html) which seems to be saying it was the ex-Potocki car.

I'd go with that, and frankly there aren't many other 69s that could be Saidi's car.

Lots of other interesting discussion there about Matra MS5s - including clarification of what I'd long suspected, that Potocki actually had two different ones.

Chris

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Johhny Blades then to Walter Kinnear in N.Ireland and fitted with a Cosworth FVC for Formula Libre racing - painted dark metallic blue
Sold to Barclay Bingham for hillclimbs & sprints - painted red
Sold to Robin Dunbar for hillclimbs & sprints - not used
Sold to Bill Patterson in 1984 for Historic Racing - painted in Ikuzawa colours - competed early 1985
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)
Mike was great to watch in that car, stunningly quick and 100% a gentleman to race with.
Welcome here Bill,

Andrew

I haven’t been right back through the thread to check any of this, but this is my understanding.
The car is an interesting one, if only for the variations of its number.
In 1971 I have it being campaigned by Ikuzawa (as 69-71-1), then in the Torneio by Ronald Rossi (69-7169/1F2) and François Migault (71-69/1-F2). My records say it then went to Japan for Urashibara, but I’d be happy to accept I’m wrong on that. Pollock had more than one 69 – I have him in 69-F2-2 in 1971 and another car as well (this one?) in 1972
Billy Patterson ran the car in 1985 (7169-1-F2) and then Mike Pendlebury but although Kumschick was the next owner I’m not sure that he raced it.
It next appears with Alain Filhol racing it for an unknown owner in 1993 and 1994 (69-71-1F2) but in 1997 was with Hall & Fowler and raced by Rob Hall (71-69-1-F2)
At that point my notes run out

Then via Sid Hoole to Bobby Rahal and then to Lord Laidlaw?

Coming in very late on this, I can confirm that 59/69 F3 37 did go from Sutcliffe to me and did get damaged in Macau, but not badly - just rad and o/s/f suspension. I sold it to Percy Chan in Kuala Lumpur, where it stayed for a couple of years before probably going on to Australia. It is NOT the one recently entered for an auction. I had a spare chassis, onto which I rebuilt the car after a major shunt at Mallory, and so this one is probably a complete new rebuild onto the original bare chassis, which I sold when I returned from Macau. And I saw Johnny Blades a couple of years ago at Silverstone, very much alive and kicking! And he was the tailor from Northumberland.

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Johhny Blades then to Walter Kinnear in N.Ireland and fitted with a Cosworth FVC for Formula Libre racing - painted dark metallic blue
Sold to Barclay Bingham for hillclimbs & sprints - painted red
Sold to Robin Dunbar for hillclimbs & sprints - not used
Sold to Bill Patterson in 1984 for Historic Racing - painted in Ikuzawa colours - competed early 1985
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)Walter Kinnear has confirmed via Edward Fitzgerald that his Lotus 69 came from Blades and went to Barclay Bingham.

Fast rewind into memory lane...The two chassis initialy used by Team Bardhal-Fittipaldi were the ex-Hill and ex-Rindt chassis, fresh off the boat (deck -cargo!) from the South American series in 1970, sold to them by Mr.Ecclestone together with the ex-Brabham F1 transporter.Wilson's was 69.F2.4(ex-Rindt), raced by Enzo Corti at Bogota for Jochen Rindt Racing, and Emerson's was 69.F2.5(ex-Hill).

For Pau Emerson had a new car 71.14.F2(also quoted as 71/69.5.F2, this was a result of the common, at the time, juggling of chassi numbers to match the RAC and ATA carnets required to cross frontiers, we all used to have spare chassi plates and a set of stamps to do this), so new that the engine was fitted on the kerb in front of Cosworth, bodywork fitted at the docks in Dover and finished in an all-nighter in the rain at Pau paddock...this was to lead to a fraught qualy session and subsequent DNF due to loose wheel bearings during race, while wilson DNQ due to chronic electrical problems, corrosion related, a legacy of the return from Bogota as deck-cargo.

This car went on to win Jarama and Crystal Palace, by which time Wilson had received his new March 712.

The Imola race in july was notable in that Wilsons March had the first application of an airbox in the induction system in F2, which took him to second place in the first heat, but caused a jammed throttle in the second head as it began to disintegrate..this led to a small off road excursion three laps from the end as he was leading...

Re airboxes in F2, Jimmy's Lotus 48 had one in 1967.....

Thanks RDV, you've explained why we couldn't understand F2.5 morphing into 14.F2 mid-season.

Do you recall what happened to those three cars (the two originals plus the replacement 14.F2) afterwards?

Simon Hadfield- Re airboxes in F2, Jimmy's Lotus 48 had one in 1967.....
There you go, you live and learn...
allenbrown-Do you recall what happened to those three cars (the two originals plus the replacement 14.F2) afterwards?
14.F2 went on to be raced for another year as the Moonraker Lotus...a bit vague about the others....sold off, not really sure to whom...

Coming in very late on this, I can confirm that 59/69 F3 37 did go from Sutcliffe to me and did get damaged in Macau, but not badly - just rad and o/s/f suspension. I sold it to Percy Chan in Kuala Lumpur, where it stayed for a couple of years before probably going on to Australia. It is NOT the one recently entered for an auction. I had a spare chassis, onto which I rebuilt the car after a major shunt at Mallory, and so this one is probably a complete new rebuild onto the original bare chassis, which I sold when I returned from Macau. And I saw Johnny Blades a couple of years ago at Silverstone, very much alive and kicking! And he was the tailor from Northumberland.

I met Johnny D at Cadwell yesterday and had a good chat with him, very nice chap. And still very quick in his FF2000 Van Diemen too...

Johnny told a story of his 69, which I only caught the end of. I think, he said that his Far East/Australian 69, was now owned in Oz by Sonny Rajah. Can you confirm this, Johnny?

i know Sonny has his old march 73B cum 732 car

i will ask him if he still has the lotus

How kind you are!! Yes, I've started again after a 35 year break - no fool like an old fool. I have indeed found my old car and Sonny Rajah has it and is now living in Perth, W.Australia. He has his old March 732 and his 712 and also claims to have the ex-James Hunt Lotus 69. You can find the details on his website http://www.warm.org.au/images/WARM-assos/SRajah/SRajah.htm.

Is there a system lotus used when numbering the cars?

59-F3-1 = an formula 3 car
59-FB-9= an formula B car
59-F2-20 = an formula 2 car

I’ve been looking at this and it seems right to me

That was the idea but then a F2 car might end up in FB, a FB car in F3 etc.

or a 59f3 gets upgraded parts to run as a 69B/F2 etc to throw things into another dimension !!

or a 59f3 gets upgraded parts to run as a 69B/F2 etc to throw things into another dimension !!

Thanks Drifty, that's put the bloke right off!!! :rotate:

always willing to oblige in throwing the spanner into the works