Brabham BT18 [Archive] - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum

EliSolomon

13 Apr 2005, 15:26

The 2nd of the two names listed by Ted is who I have associated with that AM no.
Suggest you contact John Hafkenshiel in the U.S.A. at brabworld@aol.com who may be able to assist .
Bryan Miller.

Thanks for the leads guys. I'm waiting for John Hafkenschiel to revert with more information.

Bryan, do you know where can I find the link with Tom Ragnotti (or Duane Capps)? All the BT18 racing records are available for 1966, minus AM numbers of course. It's like a puzzle - a name here, a name there, and all I can do is try to follow up one lead after another, and hopefully something gives so I can close the circle and get on with another Historic sports racer that some guy called Ford Smith built in 1971.

Eli

EliSolomon

14 Apr 2005, 14:30

I'm afraid I'me being a persistent pain in the *utt but I do want to get to the bottom the BT18 AM128.

What I now have is that it was raced in F3 in Europe and brought to Hawaii at some point. It then ended up with Ron Hunder in Denver (who raced it in the SCCA Formula C series somewhere in the US) then Duane Capps via a gift from his wife (I'm showing this to mine with an explicit request for a BT29 or 30 next time around!). Attorney Tom Ragonetti then bought it (I think in 1983 or thereabouts). There was never any indication that it had an ID plate.

I don't know where to start with the SCCA Formual C results from 1967 onwards. Anyone with suggestions here? Or perhaps I ought to try the Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing guys and see they can stick an APB out for Ron Hunter.

allenbrown

14 Apr 2005, 15:50

Hi Eli

Formula C is very hard to track over this period as the SCCA races were usually held for Formula A, B and C together (what they call Formula SCCA) and the FC cars typically don't feature in the top 10. So you just get a mention of the FC class winner and that's about it.

I have the results for the pro series in 1967 and 1968 on my site but there were few FCs and I have nothing relating to Hunder, Capps or Ragonetti.

Have you tried asking the local SCCA Region?

Allen

EliSolomon

14 Apr 2005, 16:21

Thanks Allen. Typo in the first name - should be Ron Hunter of Denver. I'm far more interested in tracing the European F3 history of the car before it was converted to the Formula C spec with 1,110cc capacity limit in the US. The 1966 F3 records I've seen don't include chassis numbers. You think the regular publications like Autosport etc would have?
Eli

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2005, 05:28

Eli,

As per my PM , nobody in period was going around looking at the back of F3 frames checking out AM numbers and matching them up with Chassis numbers .

More to the point hardly anyone was recording chassis numbers let alone AM numbers on F3 cars, how do you know it is an F3 , why can it not be an F2 , 1000cc SCA.

Who imported the car into Hawaii , who/ where did they obtain car from , if we had a U.K./ European name we may be able to do some good.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend

15 Apr 2005, 12:03

OK Here's some guidance which might at least give us some names and eliminate a few runners [I also need to know about BT18s in the US as they are quite common in the early years of FB] Note that all cars are called F2 even when ran F3

BT18 F2.1.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Bob King 1968: Bob King (A.S ad end of year, raced FL Silverstone, March; 'works F3' ) f/s AS Bedford, not raced since August 1968
BT18 F2.2.66 - 1966: Works: 1967 - 68 Peter Parnell [ZA]
F2.3.66 Not known
F2.4.66 Not known

BT18 F2.5.66 1966 Andrew Fletcher 1967: Andrew Fletcher [ran F. Libre 1966 AS 3.4.67] 1968 Andrew Fletcher

BT18 [F2.6.66] MAE 1966: Chris Williams 1967: Lydden Racing Team: John Tomlinson->J.A.Pearce Engineering [Aug 67. AS]
BT18 [F2.7.66] SCA 1966: Kurt Ahrens 1967: Ronnie Peterson 1968: Gustaf Dieden [MN 29.8.68 p 15]

BT18 [F2.8.66] 1966: Mike Hawley (h/c) [AS F/S with chassis no.] 1967: Mike Hawley (h/c) 1968: John Fenwick (h/c) 1969: John Fenwick [FS AS 28.3.69 p. 48] 1970: Tom Elton

BT18 F2.9.66 MAE 1966: Stockbridge: John Fenning
BT18 F2.10.66 Not known
BT18 [F2.11.66] MAE 1966: Robin Widdows [f.s AS 29.11.67 p.557] 1967: Tony Goodwin [maybe taken to Singapore]
BT18 F2.12.66 not known
BT18 [F2.13.66] MAE 1966: Mike Keens 1967: Dave Williamson [f/s AS 15.9.67] 1969: Dave Santer [t/c engine] [ex Stiller/Williamson/McInerney AS 12.9.69] 1970: Dave Santer [t/c engine FL Brands Jan] [ex Williamson MN 26.3.70 p.8]
BT18 F2.14.66 not known
BT18 F2.15.66 MAE 1966: Baldyne: Dennis O'Sullivan; 1967: Goodwin: Patrick Champin->Matti Lamminen 1969: Gerhard Krammer [H/C; Munich F2] [MN 30.10.69 p. 9]
BT18 F2.16.66 not known
BT18 F2.17.66 MAE 1966: Promecon: Sullivan f/s AS 13.1.67 1968: Gerard Pillon (h/c) [MN report St. Ursanne H/C]
BT18 [F2.18.66] Honda S800 1966: Works: Jack Brabham 1969: Kevin Murphy: Frank Keane 1970: Patsy McGarrity->Patsy Farrelly (IRL) 1971: Vivian Candy
BT18 F2.19.66 Honda S800 1966: Works: Denis Hulme
BT21 F2.20.66 Honda S800 1966: Works: Jack Brabham 1967: John Kendall [Frank Manning Racing]
BT18 F2.21.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Peter Deal For sale by Spencer Elton [ex Deal/David Wray]
BT18 F2.22.66 1966: Winkelmann: Jochen Rindt/Mike Beckwith/Hans Herrmann 1972: Paul Brindley [FL]
BT18 F2.23.66 1966: Winkelmann: Alan Rees
BT18 F2.24.66 not known
BT18 F2.25.66 not known
BT18 F2.26.66 1966 ?Palmer? 1967: Tony Palmer 1973: USA SCCA
BT18 F2.27.66 1966: Baird: Chris Meek 1967: Baird: Chris Meek
BT18 [F2.28.66] MAE 1966: Picko Troberg Reine Wisell
F2.29.66 not known
F2.30.66 not known
F2.31.66 not known
F2.32.66 not known

BT18 F2.33.66 1966: Walter Habbeger 1967: Bruno Frey 1968: Paul Blum
BT18 F2.34.66 1966: Frank Williams 1967: Leo Kinnunen
BT18 F2.35.66 1966: Frank Williams
BT18 F2.36.66 not known
BT18 F2.37.66 1966: Frank Williams 1967: Frank Williams [f/s AS 11 races built June 66] [Sold Sept 67] 1968: Bob Marsland (FL)

F2.38.66 not known
F2.39.66 not known
BT18 F2.40.66 1967: Lamplough: Jean-Pierre Jabouille (7 races) Robert Lamplough [f/s AS 29.11.68 built late 66 hardly used] f/s Lamplough AS Jan 1969 'Used by a young Frenchman for seven races in 1967 F3, who was then given a Matra and only used the car once more'

BT18 F2.41.66 1966-67: Frank Williams [f/s AS 9 races, built July 66]
F2.42.66 1968: Peter Korda (CH H/C) [MN report St. Ursanne H/C]
F2.43.66 not known
F2.44.66 1968: Clive Baker Brian Eccles (h.c) Chris Cox (h.c) 1969: Tony Charnell Richard Thwaites [HC] [ from Dave McKinney except Charnell 1969 from AS]

Any help?
Chris

EliSolomon

15 Apr 2005, 12:48

Thanks for that exhaustive list. Pardon my ignorance - could you explain the nomenclature in your note please? How did Ron designate a chassis/frame number? F2.xx.66 - 66 representing year but how did the xx relate to Arch Motors numbers? I looked at it this way - 198 cars built before the BT18 came about. Of that total, potentially 35 cars were made in 1966, leaving 163 (maximum) before the BT18 run began. Now I don't have a dash plate to identify the car but the AM chassis number of 128 is clearly marked on the rear chassis member. I've recorded 6 F2, 32 F3 and 8 Ford Kent variants for a total of 46 BT18s made. Somewhere in that is the hand granade I own.
Eli

Steve Wilkinson

15 Apr 2005, 12:58

OK Here's some guidance which might at least give us some names and eliminate a few runners [I also need to know about BT18s in the US as they are quite common in the early years of FB] Note that all cars are called F2 even when ran F3

BT18 [F2.8.66] 1966: Mike Hawley (h/c) [AS F/S with chassis no.] 1967: Mike Hawley (h/c) 1968: John Fenwick (h/c) 1969: John Fenwick [FS AS 28.3.69 p. 48] 1970: Tom Elton

BT18 F2.21.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Peter Deal For sale by Spencer Elton [ex Deal/David Wray]

BT18 F2.44.66 1968: Clive Baker Brian Eccles (h.c) Chris Cox (h.c) 1969: Tony Charnell Richard Thwaites [HC] [ from Dave McKinney except Charnell 1969 from AS]

Any help?
Chris

Further to the above selected chassis:

F2-8-66 was used by Tom Elton through to the end of 1974

F2-21-66 was sprinted and hillclimbed by Spencer Elton whilst he had it up for sale.

F2-44-66 this went to David Hartley when sold by Richard Thwaites at the end of 1970. Hartley sprinted it until the end of 1975. During 1974 & '75 Tony Bradwell shared the car.

FINALLY

In 1976 one John Hart competed in the Weston Speed Trials in a '1.6 Brabham-Ford BDA BT18'. Does anyone know which BT18 this was?

:cool:

Dan Rear

15 Apr 2005, 13:26

Didn't John Hart have a BT38 around that time, maybe a 'typo' ?

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2005, 13:32

Eliminate 3 x BT18's,

F2-21-66.
F2-39-66.
F2-40-66.
All over here for many years .

F2-39-66.
Chris, for your records .New to Alistair Walker for the 1967 season , at end of season sold to Dean Rainsford of Australia with MAE and bought to Australia straight away , eng. no. 66-133 , used immeadiately in Aust. for a season before being sold to Peter Larner. ETC.ETC.

Bryan.

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2005, 13:43

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2005, 14:02

Chris,

The above re. F2-40-66 does not fit with your call out , the car here appears to have very good provenence , and retains chassis plate.

Regards Bryan.

EliSolomon

15 Apr 2005, 14:32

Chris,

F2-40-66,

By April 1967 in Singapore for Lee Hang Seng , found and purchased by the late Derry George in 1985 and retained untill 1996 when sold to Peter Larner , as he was unable to re-purchase his old F2-39-66.

Eli , I have proof in front of me which indicates your car is F2-27-66. AM 128.

Bryan.

Thanks Bryan,
Gilbert Baird car, run by Chris Meek in 1967? Would you know if that was first year they ran AM128 or was it run in 1966?
Eli

Ted Walker

15 Apr 2005, 16:56

I have always had F2-27-66 as AM126 ?????? Chris Meek car.

Ted Walker

15 Apr 2005, 17:01

You can also eliminate F2-6-66 It came back from Sweden 6 or so years ago and is sitting in the roof of my pals workshop awaiting restoration

EliSolomon

15 Apr 2005, 18:29

I have always had F2-27-66 as AM126 ?????? Chris Meek car.

That would make AM128 the F2-29-66 car, wouldn't it?

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2005, 19:06

EliSolomon

15 Apr 2005, 19:25

Ted,

The information I have is not period unfortunately .
Eli , can only suggest you await reply from J. Hafkenschiel.
And you cannot presume that because one chassis /AM number combination is something that another combination will be xyz. It is not so.

Bryan.

I received a packet from John just this morning. No reference to the early history of the car and no reference to an ID either.

Where was your reference for AM128's link with the Baird-Meek car from?

Eli

Steve Wilkinson

15 Apr 2005, 21:25

Didn't John Hart have a BT38 around that time, maybe a 'typo' ?

Dan, as the car is identified in both the Official Programme, the Official Results and the contempoary reports as a BT18 then I am not so sure it is a typo.

HOWEVER

The following year he was in a 1.6 BT38. :rotate:

David McKinney

15 Apr 2005, 22:21

Some variations from and additions to your list, Chris
No guarantees of accuracy, but some may ignite a spark

I have the following listed for 1966:
13 - MRS/Lanfranchi
15 - Natalie Goodwin
24 - David Cole (and Lamplough)
28 - Lythgoe/Rollinson
30 - Mike Walker
34 - Harry Stiller
38 - Wal Donnelly

Chris Townsend

16 Apr 2005, 10:52

Bryan

Re BT18 [F2.66.40]
There is an ad AS 29.11.68 'built late 66 hardly used', by Lamplough, which gives this chassis no. [Am now on my way to double check it in National Newspaper Library] Then there is a subsequent ad in A/S Jan 1969 'Used by a young Frenchman for seven races in 1967 F3, who was then given a Matra and only used the car once more' so I've assumed these to be the same car. Will confirm that Lamplough gives number.

Very few of my chassis numbers come solely from black books, most actually are taken from adverts at end 66 or begining 67 where numbers were quite often given

Chris

Bryan Miller

16 Apr 2005, 11:49

EliSolomon

16 Apr 2005, 18:18

Chris,

The trail is from Lee Hang Seng, however this is not my research but the competitors from 20 years ago, so will await your advice.

Eli,

Can only suggest you ask John Hafkenschiel to double check against the name Peter McGlone.

Bryan.

Bryan,

Pete McGlone exists in the Brabham register as owning a BT18. Unlikely to be Pete's as Tom Ragonetti has an entry in there as well (AM128). There are about 24 BT18 entries in the register (mine included). Of these, appears ~19 are in North America.

Eli

Doug Hart

10 May 2005, 21:59

"In 1976 one John Hart competed in the Weston Speed Trials in a '1.6 Brabham-Ford BDA BT18'. Does anyone know which BT18 this was?"

This came up earlier.. This was indeed my dad in his BT18... this was ex winkleman racing Rindt car, sadly he sold it to another hillclimber who sadly died of cancer, cannot remember his name .. my dad bought it with a Vegantune engine in it and ran it in sprints and hillclimbs he sold it and bought a BT38 with the dosh, but transferred the FVA engine into the BT38 .. so it was sold as a roller with wings and stuff added.. I have loads of photos.. should start a site !!!

Doug Hart

Steve Wilkinson

10 May 2005, 22:07

Doug Hart

11 May 2005, 19:17

If you want some photos at some point, just mail me direct doug@hydrogendukebox.com

Doug

Joe Gordon

11 May 2005, 20:18

BT18 F2-12-66 is with me here in the states (Seattle.) The car was ordered by Peter Lawson and hillclimbed in the UK during 66/67. He then sold it to Peter Blankstone who hillclimbed with it in 68 and then sold to Spencer Elton who hillclimbed it in 69/70. After Spencer it went to Rod Pickering, Rob Laughton, Robin Meade, David Wilson, Paul Shires, Paul Spires, and Michael Rigby in Canada all of which used it as mostly circuit racing. I got the car in 2002 and had it restored by Horizon Racing in Seattle. I use it mostly on the West coast and did have it down in New Zealand 2004 for the Southern Festival.

Joe

Doug Hart

12 May 2005, 15:56

The Bloke who had my Dad's BT18 was Jimmy Johnston from the leeds area. The BT40 he had was sold to Paul Squires, who sadly died at a young age and before he finished the car.. sorry for getting the story mixed up earlier.

Jimmy Johnston was a friend of Peter Kaye who climbed a BT35.. This is like Six degrees !!

Doug

Chris Townsend

14 May 2005, 10:50

Joe

Welcome. One extra bit of history for you. From Rod Pickering the car went, in 1971 to Geoff and Tony Lambert, and was very badly bent at Ingliston in a F. Libre race. [Report in Motoring News 10.6.71 p. 19].

Chris

wap

13 May 2006, 02:15

Hello:

It's about time to find out about the early history of my BT18, although, working on it and driving it is more important, I suppose!

It shows the following numbers: F2-26-66 (dash) and AM 136 AD near the lhs rear shock mount. I was told that the car was owned by a Toni Palmer in 67
(based on an ad at the end of the year). As such it may have run at Caldwell Park that year and finished 2nd. I have no idea what it did in 66. Certainly
no major F2 race.

I have a log book from SCCA where it ran in the midwest (USA).

Can anybody help with information?

Thanks in advance, Walter

Chris Townsend

13 May 2006, 10:45

Walter

That chassis number is indeed given in Autosport magazine for Palmer's car when it appears at Cadwell Park in 1967. Unfortunately we've never been able to trace it back to a 1966 owner.

It would be a great help to us if you could give us the dates, places and owners of the car listed in the SCCA logbook [by private mail if you wish]
Without these documents it's almost impossible to identify users of BT18s and 21s in American FB racing, whether in the pro series or SCCA events.

Chris

wap

13 May 2006, 15:33

Hello Chris:

Thanks. You were indeed one of two people who pointed me towards Tony Palmer. Here is what I know (based on the SCCA log book):

BT 18 F2-26-66

SCCA Log book identity no.: 18-268

Category: FC

color: black/yellow (I also have a spare body panel in this color), engine: Novamotor, 1000cc (entry from 8/22/74)

(car ran on midwest and eastern tracks - mostly in the hands of novices as occasional race school entries imply )

Ownership (as far as I can read the handwriting):

Mike Bystrom (? till 1/74)

Peter E. Pontante Jr. (from 1/74)

Ed Kasprowiecz (from 4/24/77)

Denny Sideri (from 8/12/78)

Wayne Boian (from 1/10/81)

Chris Stove (from 01/84)

That's where the SCCA log book ends

Owner till end of 90's: Gennaro Russo (State of New York), GR told me me bought the car in dissembled state from a "Japanese fellow".
Gennaro used the car in local events. (first with an SCA - which broke due to cam sprocket failure, then with a FF engine).
He sold me the car with another SCA/C engine freshly refurbished (if he had this engine done in the same shop as his first one I know why his first SCA broke -
fortunately I found the flaw before mine broke. Which confirms the rule (for the amateur racer): never race anything before you took it completely apart and back together again!). I moved the car back home to Graz, Austria when I ended my 17 years in the US.

You can see the car on my webpage: http://physik.kfunigraz.ac.at/%7Ewap/BT18.html

Also, if it's indeed the Tony Palmer car, you can see a glimpse of the car in the video "Motor Racing '60s Style 1960 & 1967, which I had watched many times before I bought the car. Seems the car then was red (as it now again is).

Regards, Walter

Chris Townsend

14 May 2006, 11:45

Walter

Many thanks for the SCCA log. Mikael Bystrom, Ed Kasprowicz and Denny Sideri were all in Central Division and Sideri was mainly in FC. Looks like I might be able to find some 70s results for you for the car.

Chris

Alan Brown

5 Jun 2006, 20:48

This F3 car was at Brands Hatch at the weekend competing in the F3 Historique race. Ferdinand Gustafson (Sweden) has owned it since 1969. It went to Kurt Ahrens in Germany and then to Ronnie Peterson.

The other BT18 there was David Crowther's F2 version with Cosworth SCA, painted in green/silver Jochen Rindt/Winkelmann Racing colours.

In the same race were two BT15s, three BT21s, a BT28 and a FJ BT6.

Alan Brown

Alan Brown

27 Oct 2006, 09:48

I forgot to add to my previous post that BT18 F2-4-66 was out in the same race. Owned by Ferdinand Gustafson since 1969; it went to Kurt Ahrens in Germany then to a famous Swede, Ronnie Peterson.

Alan Brown

Chris Townsend

30 Oct 2006, 16:54

I have BT18 F2.7.66 noted in period as the Ahrens car, then Ronnie Peterson 1967 and Gustav Dieden 1968.

Chris

allenbrown

1 Nov 2006, 13:48

Denis Lupton offered this from his notes which might help with this discrepancy:

F2-4-66, entered by Kurt Ahrens, with MAE engine, then to Ronnie Petersson,et al,
F2-7-66, entered by Caltex Racing for Kurt Ahrens, with SCA engine, to who knows?

Allen

allenbrown

10 Nov 2006, 17:02

I have an "ex-Winkelmann Brabham BT18" mystery in Ireland in 1969 with Tommy Reid. He seemed to use it as a backup car to his BT23 with a Ford t/c.

Anyone have anything on this car?

Allen

Chris Townsend

10 Nov 2006, 17:17

Goes to John Smith in 1970
Who is still around in Northern Ireland...
What's said to be the Rindt car first shows up in England in 1972 with Paul Brindley in libre, so this could be the Rees car. Smith might remember who he sold it to.

Chris

allenbrown

10 Nov 2006, 17:40

Smith? That's nicely confusing. He's already calling what I presume to be his ex-Templeton BT14 a "BT16" and a "BT18" in 1969.

Thanks

LoLola

28 Nov 2006, 03:34

I recently was viewing a collection in southern California owned by the noted collector Tom Malloy. In his collection was a black BT18 that was his first training car. I am not sure of the chassis number but I am sure he would share it if you contacted him.

allenbrown

18 Dec 2006, 23:49

Just found Mike Irons in an "ex-Reeves" Brabham-Holbay BT18 in a Monoposto race an Snetterton (AS 27 Aug 1970 p50).

That might help someone one day...

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 19:39

Chris

Do you have the 1966 F1R book? At Brands 13 Nov 1966 they list the following Brabhams:

#63 Mike Walker BT18 F2-30-66
#64 Walter Donnelly BT18 F2-38-66
#65 Martin Slater BT16 AM 25
#67 [C Lambert] Alistair Welch BT15 F3-26-65
#68 Mike Keens BT10 F2-1-64
#74 [MRS] Harry Stiller BT18 F2-34-66
#75 [MRS] Tony Lanfranchi BT18 F2-13-66
#76 [MRS] Tony Trimmer BT16 F2-22-65
#78 [California America Racing] Steve Matchett BT15 F3-1-65
#79 Dave Williamson BT15 F3-25-66

Another to follow in a moment.

Allen

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 19:49

Also at Brands 27 Dec 1966

#1 Stiller as above
#3 Lambert as above
#7 [Crispeed] Ken Costello BT15 F3-8-65
#8 David Cole BT18 F2-24-66
#10 Slater as above (*)
#11 [Frank Manning] Mike Walker BT18 F2-30-66 (*)
#17 Derek Bell BT21/4
#21 David Morgan BT15 AM 24
#22 Graham Coaker BT15 AM 94
#24 John Davies BT18 F2-10-66

(*) John Ralph (#9) is given the chassis number of Slater's BT16, Slater (#10) the number of Walker's BT18 and Walker (#11) the number of Moore's Lotus 41. I've unwound these typos above.

Allen

allenbrown

7 Jan 2007, 19:01

Just found Mike Irons in an "ex-Reeves" Brabham-Holbay BT18 in a Monoposto race an Snetterton (AS 27 Aug 1970 p50).

That might help someone one day...Me, as it turns out. I'm glad I use 10 Tenths as a notebook! Ed Reeves has a F3 BT18 in 1969, winning libre races at Cadwell Park (29 Jun 1969) and at Oulton Park (5 Jul 1969) where David Martell drives and the car is described as "ex-Irwin". So I turn to Chris's list and:
BT18 F2.1.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Bob King 1968: Bob King (A.S ad end of year, raced FL Silverstone, March; 'works F3' ) f/s AS Bedford, not raced since August 1968
BT18 F2.21.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Peter Deal For sale by Spencer Elton [ex Deal/David Wray]So which has Reeves got? Deal continued to run his F2-21-66 up to at least Sep 1969 (2nd in a libre at Brands) so I guess Reeves and Irons must have had F2-1-66. Or am I missing something? Or assuming too much? And who is David Wray?

Allen

John Turner

8 Jan 2007, 12:01

BT18 [F2.28.66] MAE 1966: Picko Troberg Reine Wisell

Owned last year by John Counsell since he brought it to the HSCC Silverstone meeting - 20/21 May, when I noted the following:-

1966 - Picko Troberg
1967 - Reine Wisell
1969 - Bo Ericsson

allenbrown

9 Jan 2007, 15:48

Graeme Lawrence ran a 'new' BT18 in 1966 but it's only ever been known by its AM number of AM144. It first ran (according to Vercoe) 5 Nov 1966 so it could have been a very late BT18 or a second-hand car. Can anyone comment on whether AM144 would imply an early BT18 or a late one? Only two AM number have been mentioned on the thread, both implying AM144 would be a late car.

Allen

Chris Townsend

9 Jan 2007, 21:37

There are now relatively few [a mere 13!!] BT18s that we can't account for in both 1966 and/or 67. The Lawrence car has to be one of these
3; 14; 16; 19 works car not known in 67; 23 Winkelmann car not known in 67; 25; 29; 31; 32; 35 Williams car not known in 67 and Williams gives chassis nos when he offers his other BT18s for sale in Sept 67; 43; 45; 46

One of the very late numbers is presumably the Collings car that debuts in F3 in 1969 when it is described as previously unraced; another is, I guess, the Gubelmann car which is advertised as a late 66 car in CPAW in late 67.

Perhaps Denis Lupton has notes on the chassis nos above that might eliminate a few more contenders?

BTW agree with you that the only logical solution to the ex Irwin cars is that Reeves has the ex King car unless there was a third Chequered Flag BT18

Chris

allenbrown

10 Jan 2007, 23:13

Bryan Miller

11 Jan 2007, 01:49

Greg Cusack sold '' BT10 , IC-6-64 '' to NZ to Don McDonald but I believe the car was destroyed properly sometime in 1966, David may correct me.

Bryan.

David McKinney

12 Jan 2007, 13:59

Greg Cusack sold '' BT10 , IC-6-64 '' to NZ to Don McDonald but I believe the car was destroyed properly sometime in 1966, David may correct me.
Bryan.
No, it was still running (in FF spec) well into the 1970s. I don't have anything on it after 1976 however

David McKinney

12 Jan 2007, 14:05

Euromontagna

14 Feb 2007, 22:04

Another BT18 appearance... hillclimbs...
Pfaendler in 1971
Ruegg in 1973
chassis ???

allenbrown

28 Feb 2007, 22:39

I don't know if this helps but Daniel Gache bought a new BT18 from the factory in 1967 to replace his BT15 (Ech Jun 1973 p55).

allenbrown

8 Mar 2007, 20:58

Raymond Rispal has a 1966 Brabham, so presumably a BT18, in French hillclimbs in 1975. Rispal, who was by then 65 years old, had been running a Brabham in the FL category since 1971 or even earlier.

Andrew Fellowes

9 Mar 2007, 22:20

Excellent find Allen as Rispal pops up quite often, I recall the car being listed as a Brabham-Rispal now and again?

Leif Rideout

11 Mar 2007, 20:46

Hello all, it appears that the only way to distinguish a type BT18 from a BT18A from a BT18B is to know the car's history as they are all "F2-xx-66"? That being said is there a list available that links types with serial #? More specifically, is John Counsell's F2-28-66 an F2, F3, or FB car? Thanks very much for your input, Leif Rideout (new to list)

Bryan Miller

11 Mar 2007, 22:59

Leif,

Suggest you read all this thread on BT18's , page 2 has the answer to your question , according to Chris Townsend this car is ex Roy Winkleman Racing for Jochen Rindt , so therefor this particular car is an F2 in period.
F2 then being 1.0 litre Cosworth SCA or BRM in 1966 the last year of the 1.0 litre F2 , the new Cosworth FVA 1600 and others then started in 1967 for the new F2.

Bryan.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend

11 Mar 2007, 23:02

Leif

Welcome to the forum. Bryan is right, but it's also possible for a BT18 to be a F3 or F2 car one year and run in FB in the USA with a 1600 twin cam [or indeed in British libre races] the next, and still be 'in period'. Indeed, some cars could legitimately be run as vintage FF I guess...

Chris

Leif Rideout

11 Mar 2007, 23:40

Thanks, Bryan & Chris. Sorry to press for more info... On Chris' list #22 is the Winkleman car, #28 the Troberg car. The chassis # is in [#], does that mean "info not verified" or something else? Does the MAE listed for #28 possibly mean it originally ran F3? I'm trying to figure out what it ran as initially. Thanks again, Leif

Steve Wilkinson

17 Mar 2007, 19:04

In the Hillclimb review there is a section on Spencer Elton and his dad Tom. In it Quentin Spurring mentions the three BT18 chassis that the family owned in 1969.

Spencer used for thr '69 Season mainly the ex Peter Lawson BT18 (F2-12-66) whuch he had bought off Peter Blankstone. It also mentions that he had by the time the report was published sold the car to Rod Pickering who was going to use it on the circuits.

Tom used the ex- Hawley/Fenwick chassis (F2-8-66).

The third chassis (the ex-Irwin/Deal F2-21-66) is reported to be the chassis that Spencer is planning to use in 1970.

:)

Steve Wilkinson

18 Mar 2007, 10:51

Steve Wilkinson

18 Mar 2007, 14:40

These snipets are from the 24/02/67 Autosport (Vol 34 No 8)

1) Peter Gaydon has "bought the ex-Rollo Fielding BT18"

2) As part of a piece on Harry Stiller it mentions that "back in August (1966) he bought the BT18 from Ken Bass & Jackie Oliver"

3) In the preview to a sprint event it mentions that "George Cayley is entered in the ex-Erik Hazelhoff BT18"

:)

Steve Wilkinson

19 Mar 2007, 13:21

In a report on the 30th March Yeovilton sprint within this issue Spencer Elton's BT18 is described as "ex-Malcolm Eaves twin-cam".

:)

Andrew Fellowes

26 Mar 2007, 02:23

I don't know if this helps but Daniel Gache bought a new BT18 from the factory in 1967 to replace his BT15 (Ech Jun 1973 p55).

So what's this one I wonder, BT18?

Sport Auto No. 88 May 1969
EXCEPTIONNEL : moins cher qu'une Formula France Brabham 69, d�douan�e �quip�e 1600, Gordini 155 CV. Bo�te Hewland. Tous les rapports de bo�te, 8 pneus toutes les suspensions de recharge (amortisseurs ressorts, triangles, portes, moyeux, etc.) une seule course de c�te. Valeur 48 000 F. prix 24 000 F. Daniel GACHE, 26 bis, rue D'Estienne-d'Orves, AVIGNON Tel, : 81.18.195

Less expensive than a Formula France, rebuilt shocks etc, only one hill climb.

(the type is a bit small, not sure if I copied it correctly)

GR03

2 May 2007, 04:16

Chris Walter,

I just noticed your inquiry and yes I was one of the owners of this beautiful machine. I was very fortunate as they say "to be at the right place and time" to meet Mr. E. K. and purchase as it was my first open wheel car ever and one that helped me go through my drivers school at Nelson Ledges and begin the journey which I still pursue today. The looks very different from when I had it as it had a shovel nose and F3 Rear wing. Part of the original purchase agreement was for Ed to bring the car down to Nelson the weekend of my first drivers school and help me get through it. I remember being so "green" as they say because when my Instructor Rod Whelan inspected the car the first thing he asked was where were my racing slicks? Being new to the sport I didn't have a clue what he was asking as the tires on it where the old No dots grooved Firestonse. Rod kept reminding me that as my speed began to increase to watch out and not drive off the track. Please keep me posted as to your racing results and how you are doing and good luck!

Cheers!

Denny S.

Leif Rideout

16 May 2007, 05:07

Hello all, an update with a question here. I have acquired BT-18 #F2-28-66 (Picko Troberg F3 car) from John Counsell (UK), it arrived in San Francisco last Wednesday & is now in Monterey, California area. The paperwork says AM130 but the paint is a bit heavy in that area (and my eyes suck at close-up work) to really read the numbers so the question is: does AM130 match with your data or should I strip the paint to verify what the number is? It is set up as FB now (twin cam, Mk9 gearbox, 8"/10" wheels, near mint condition) & my 1st race with it is this weekend at Thunderhill. Thanks for your input, Leif Rideout

allenbrown

24 May 2007, 22:06

Leif Rideout

10 Jun 2007, 02:59

In case you have not come across these pix in your browsing, go to http://62.149.36.46/~bruce/cgi-bin/monaco65.htm (http://62.149.36.46/%7Ebruce/cgi-bin/monaco65.htm). Nice photos by Barry Boor at the Monaco F3 race in 1965. Enjoy!

Teretonga

27 Jul 2007, 13:42

I'm trying to decypher some New Zealand "BT18"s, mostly from the 1970 Tasman season entry lists. Could someone check this for me?

Graham Watson - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT16 F2-9-65
Wayne Murdoch - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT10 IC-6-64
Dexter Dunlop - "BT18" entry only in 1970 = BT18 AM144 (but not bought)
Russ Noble - "BT18" in 1974 Internationals = BT18 AM168?
Murray Baker - "Elk" in 1975 Internationals = BT18 AM168 + 5-litre Chev

Or was Watson in BT18 AM144?
Hi Allen
Watsons 'BT18' was indeed the ex Oxton BT 16.
Murdoch's BT18 was the ex Cusack/McDonald BT10 but I am not sure this car was destroyed. I'm sure it was sold onwards. Murdoch purchased the ex Lawrence M4A before on selling it as he couldn't afford to run it.
Dunlops BT18 could have been the ex Lawrence AM144. Lawrence had sold the car to John Nicholson of McLaren-Nicholson fame before he later departed to Europe.

Noble/Baker BT18 i am not sure but the two were from Christchurch. Noble also converted one of his Brabhams into a 2 litre twin-cam sports car in the early 70's.

David Irwin

16 Aug 2007, 00:59

I owned BT18 F2-1-66 for a number of years. Purchased early 90's from Jeff Cox, who purchased from Van Durette (SP?). Don't know the year of this sale either. This car had a small aluminum tag stamped F2-1-66 riveted to the frame, not an original Brabham tag. I was very perplexed when I first obtained this car because it had small rear uprights like the BT15/16. With some research help from Mr. Ted Walker, he discovered some photos of the car with Chris Irwin and Mike Beckwith driving that clearly showed the small rear uprights.
I sold this car to Andrew Dyson in 2000/2001.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO.

Chris Townsend

16 Aug 2007, 09:48

David

F2.1.66 last seen for sure in UK in ad in Autosport early 1969, described as not having raced since August 68. Probably the car of Bob King at this point. May have been sold to Ed Reeves in UK, since he has an ex Irwin BT18 after this and the other Irwin chassis is stll being raced by Peter Deal and David Wray.

Van Durrett: came from North Carolina and raced a BT21C in FC nationals from 1974 to 1978, this might be your car with an optimistic appellation or he might, indeed, have moved on from a BT18 at regional level.

Chris

Chris Townsend

16 Aug 2007, 11:02

David

Bit more on Van Durrett, came from Spartanburg SC [sorry not NC]
However, I have a lead on your F2-1-66.
Harry Reynolds appears at VIR in Sept 1969 with a Brabham described in the programme as "European F3 Champ 1966".
Now there wasn't a European F3 championship back then, but there was the F3 European Champ race at Brands on 2 October. Won by Irwin in a BT18...
Irwin raced at least two BT18s, but the other known entity is still in UK in Sept 69.
What adds to this story is that Ed Reeves - who is credited with an ex Irwin BT18 in UK F3 in 1969 - doesn't appear in this car after early August and by September is running a BT21B

Chris

allenbrown

16 Aug 2007, 11:45

Ed Reeves' F3 Brabham also appeared twice in libres a little earlier than this: Cadwell Park 29 Jun 1969 and Oulton Park 5 Jul 1969 (where David Martell drove it).

David Irwin

16 Aug 2007, 16:14

I may be wrong in stating F2-1-66 was a Chris Irwin car, I do remember it being a Mike Beckwith, Roger Mac car. And was a Checkered Flag team car, and Chris Irwin was on the team, but not driving this car? I think I gave all my paperwork to the new owner when I sold it. I may have some paperwork, but haven't located it since my move, as of yet. Ted should have some of this tho? I think I wished it was a Chris Irwin car. No relation to me, that I know.
Ted also thought this car was used as the DAP transmission test car. The engine bay had some modifications!

The car was definitely not a BT21, of any spec. It was a F3 spec built BT18 frame. Did not have the F2 rectangular dash bulkhead tubing or the lockheed calipers. I believe Durette owned it in the early 70's.

I've owned (2)BT10's, a 15, a 18, a 21, (2)29's , a 30, and (2) 35's and have restored everything from a BT6 to BT35's including two F1 cars, wished I'd kept better paperwork. Too busy doing the work.....

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO.

Chris Townsend

16 Aug 2007, 17:23

Just found Mike Irons in an "ex-Reeves" Brabham-Holbay BT18 in a Monoposto race an Snetterton (AS 27 Aug 1970 p50).

That might help someone one day...

Or not...

So Reeves's 'ex Irwin' car is not the ex King 'ex Irwin' car.
Time for a review of the Chequered Flag's BT18s

We do have observation somewhere of BT18 F2.1.66 as Irwin's I think...

Chris

allenbrown

19 Aug 2007, 23:20

I was just browsing Mike Lawrence's book Brabham-Ralt-Honda and it mentions that one of the works F2 Brabham-Hondas was sent to Japan at the end of 1966 as a gift to Honda.

That is unlikely to have been the prototype BT21 so probably F2-18-66 or F2-19-66. As F2-18-66 is reported to be out in 1967, I'd guess that fobbed Honda off with Hulme's car. Honda were clearly under the impression they had Jack's car.

Was F2-21-66 a works F2 car too? When did it race?

Bryan Miller

20 Aug 2007, 00:31

In the latest issue of the HSRCA [ Australia] magazine , one member has just returned from a trip to Japan which included a visit to the Honda museum , on display are , a BT18 , A BT21 and an RH6 F2.

Chris Townsend

20 Aug 2007, 09:30

The prototype BT21 [chassis F2.20.66 according to F1R] was sold to John Kendall for 1967.
F2.21.66 was one of the Chequered Flag cars. F1R give the number for Peter Deal's car in 1969 and Deal's car is described as 'ex Irwin' MN 9.3.67 p.13
I think that Chequered Flag must have had three BT18s in all. Chassis 1, an unknown early chassis, can only be 2, 3, 14 or 16 and then chassis 21. Irwin probably did drive all three...
These then go:
chassis 1: King and then to USA for Reynolds
unknown chassis: Unknown to 1969 and then to Reeves
chassis 21 to Deal 1967 then David Wray 1970 [Or is it possible that Reeves buys Deal's car and then sells it to Wray?]

Chris

allenbrown

20 Aug 2007, 20:59

In the latest issue of the HSRCA [ Australia] magazine , one member has just returned from a trip to Japan which included a visit to the Honda museum , on display are , a BT18 , A BT21 and an RH6 F2.That's useful. Interesting that they have a BT21. The only BT21 with relevance to Honda was the prototype wasn't it? That went to John Kendall and it seems unlikely Honda would have bought it third hand.

Said HSRCA member didn't happen to lean into the cockpits and note the chassis plates did he?

Denis Lupton

23 Aug 2007, 02:22

A longtime friend of mine, Brian Andrew, who passed away some time ago, worked as a mechanic for the "Flag" (or the Tatty Banner, as he called it) from late '64, through to 68. We corresponded regularly during this period, and some of his letters and photos that he sent me have recently been unearthed by my wife, bringing back many memories.

From these letters, the 1965 Repco Brabhams were,
BT15 F3-8-65
BT16 F2-15-65
Drivers:- Roy Pike, Roger Mac, Chris Irwin

1966 Repco Brabhams,
BT16 F2-15-65 (Sold on early in season)
BT18 F2-1-66
BT18 F2-21-66
BT18 F2-25-66
BT18 F2-31-66
Drivers:- Chris Irwin, Roger Mac, Bob Bondurant, Mike Beckwith, Cacho Fangio, Tim Schenken, Alec Poole, Gijs Van Lennep, Trevor Blokdyk, Jonathan Williams, Andrea de Adamich.

Brian also worked on the 'Flags Cobra, which he described as going from the sublime to the ridiculous (from little Brabham's to the monstrous Cobra) and he spent some time on the DAF transmission cars. I have quite a few of his photos of all these cars.

Denis

allenbrown

23 Aug 2007, 13:22

Fascinating stuff Denis. That should solve a few problem cars.

Steve Wilkinson

9 Oct 2007, 10:34

4 November 1971 issue of Autosport

Page 33 and in the report on the opening round of the Silverstone Sprint Championship there is a picture of the car plus in the body of the report a reference to it being the 'ex-Eccles, Thwaites Brabham BT18'.

Thanks again David for the chassis number. This one is now put to bed! :cool:

F2-44-66 was at Shelsley Walsh over the week-end being driven by CURRENT owner Bryan Eccles. It was looking immaculate after a Peter Denty work-out!

The car is currently for sale and I understand will be driven by a potential new owner at Curborough on the 21st October.

:relax:

Steve Wilkinson

9 Oct 2007, 18:27

F2-44-66 was at Shelsley Walsh over the week-end being driven by CURRENT owner Bryan Eccles. It was looking immaculate after a Peter Denty work-out!

The car is currently for sale and I understand will be driven by a potential new owner at Curborough on the 21st October.

:relax:

After the 60th Anniversary of the British Hillclimb Championship meeting at Shelsley Walsh when nearly everyone had packed up and set off home the Eccles BT18 was given a run up the hill by the propective new buyer. When he returned to the Paddock the deal was done and Simon Durling is now the new owner. He is still planning to give the car a run out at Curborough on the 21st.

:cool:

allenbrown

15 Dec 2007, 17:01

I have seen a programme for Snetterton 8 June 69 that has a few chassis numbers hand-written including ... Keith Wilson Brabham BT18 FFord AM30That's a new one isn't it?

David Irwin

15 Dec 2007, 20:35

Based on the AM number I would say it's either a BT15 or16 and formerly belonging to Cap Chenoweth, Vermont, USA. I would need to see some pics of the engine bay and know it's engine bay length. Did it have the larger rear uprights?

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

allenbrown

5 Jan 2008, 17:08

A feature on John Bridges (AS 17 Jan 1969 p25) says he bought a BT18 for 1966 (having sold his ex-Bloor BT14 to John Davies). He retained this for 1967, briefly fitting an injected Vegantune twin cam, and sold it to Frank Williams at the end of that year.

Chris - does this help your Frank Williams BT18 jigsaw or just complicate it?David McK has just been straightening out my new Tasman records and has pointed out that Brownlie's 1968 Tasman car was a BT18/BT23 numbered F3-J-66, not a BT23 as has been recorded elsewhere. The car was bought from Frank Williams and first appeared at Pukekohe at the beginning of November 1967. It was fitted with a "brand new" 1.5-litre Vegantune twin-cam according to Vercoe. I know Vegantune twin-cams weren't exactly rare in late 1967 but it might not be a concidence.

David McKinney

6 Jan 2008, 18:07

David McK has just been straightening out my new Tasman records and has pointed out that Brownlie's 1968 Tasman car was a BT18/BT23 numbered F3-J-66, not a BT23 as has been recorded elsewhere. The car was bought from Frank Williams and first appeared at Pukekohe at the beginning of November 1967. It was fitted with a "brand new" 1.5-litre Vegantune twin-cam according to Vercoe. I know Vegantune twin-cams weren't exactly rare in late 1967 but it might not be a concidence.
David McK didn't say the car was bought from Frank Williams:rolleyes:

allenbrown

6 Jan 2008, 18:13

Sorry. I edited in a full stop where there had been a commas. Everything from "The car was bought" is from Vercoe and now established to be tosh.

allenbrown

25 Jan 2008, 20:08

So what's this one I wonder, BT18?

Sport Auto No. 88 May 1969EXCEPTIONNEL : moins cher qu'une Formula France Brabham 69, d�douan�e �quip�e 1600, Gordini 155 CV. Bo�te Hewland. Tous les rapports de bo�te, 8 pneus toutes les suspensions de recharge (amortisseurs ressorts, triangles, portes, moyeux, etc.) une seule course de c�te. Valeur 48 000 F. prix 24 000 F. Daniel GACHE, 26 bis, rue D'Estienne-d'Orves, AVIGNON Tel, : 81.18.195

Less expensive than a Formula France, rebuilt shocks etc, only one hill climb.

(the type is a bit small, not sure if I copied it correctly)I just found the almost identical advert in Echappement May 1969, the only addition being "Urgent, cause achat Formula 2". I think 'd�douan�e' here means cleared through customs.

His one hillclimb appeaes to have been Ampus where he was a dismal 37th, fifth in the poorly-supported G8/9 class and well down in Faure's JEFA which would have had the same engine. At Aquitane, Gache was said to have a F2 McLaren but as Fontes (Bayardo?) was said to have one too, this might be a typo.

allenbrown

25 Jan 2008, 20:12

Andrew Fellowes

27 Jan 2008, 23:31

From the Brabham Owners Forum that some may not have seen, Bryan has already answered the question below.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9762/f24566qm8.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f24566qm8.jpg)

I�ve got a steering wheel and instrument panel with "F2-45-66" plate.
These are remains of a BT which was physically written off by Mitsubishi Motors(Colt) for accounting sake. The car must have been delivered new to Honda and then changed hands to Mitsubishi Motors to create Colt F2/F3. Ex-Racing manager of Colt presented these parts to my father back in mid 70s.

My question is whether it is from BT18 or BT16/A.
I know earlier production(smaller number) F2 of '66 are BT18s, but Honda ordered series of (20 or 21)BT16/A for their school car in Suzuka, and some of us believes it is one of them.
Taiju Kobayashi

Leif Rideout

12 Feb 2008, 02:13

Hello all, I'm still collecting data/tech info on my BT-18 but heard this recently so I thought I'd check with you....are the rotors for a BT-18 from Triumph Spitfires and for a BT-21 from a Triumph GT-6? Maybe a silly notion but thought I'd ask since my 18 needs new fronts. Thanks, Leif Rideout, Santa Cruz, California

Michel Rechede

14 May 2008, 13:28

Raymond Rispal has a 1966 Brabham, so presumably a BT18, in French hillclimbs in 1975. Rispal, who was by then 65 years old, had been running a Brabham in the FL category since 1971 or even earlier.Allen
A friend of mine could read in the seventies on the Rispal's Brabham chassis plate: FJ-2-63 ( the ex Olson, Martel's car)but I dont know if Raymond Rispal had only one Brabham...
I hope it can help you,
Michel

allenbrown

14 May 2008, 13:49

Michel Rechede

15 May 2008, 21:41

That's wonderful Michel. Thanks.

Did your friend note any other chassis numbers on cars in the 1970s? I am also researching French hillclimbs for publication on OldRacingCars.com and I have a list of 51 "interesting" cars in those events in 1975 alone. Any real chassis plate observations would be extremely useful.

Allen
Allen,
There was some Brabhams in the french hill climbs in the 1970's, I know only that Michel Pont, Roger Anzemberg, G�rard Priv� had the same "Brabham F2"
in fact it was the Jo Schlesser's BT2 with a Lotus twin cam engine that I own to day (FJ-5-62). The history of that car is now complete after 15 month of investigations with 9 owners through 46 years.
The other Brabham I know is the BT21C-6 that I purchased from Tim Barrington in UK 4 years ago

Chris Townsend

22 Jul 2008, 09:58

Sorry - I missed one - Gache (F2 Brabham) and Fontes (ex-Schlesser F2 McLaren) both at La Roquette 16 Mar 1969 but neither completed the course. Gache's engine went, which might explain the 1600cc Gordini.

1970: Motoring News described Gilbert Bec's BT18 as 'ex Gache/ex Gethin' [if so then F2.10.66] There is a Philippe Gache in a Brabham in F3 in 1969. Might he be related to your Daniel Gache?

Chris

allenbrown

24 Jul 2008, 09:50

Andrew spoke to Daniel Gache recently but Gache couldn't remember owning a BT18 at all. He thought he'd only ever had the BT30.

The article said he'd bought a BT18 to replace his BT15. I'm going back the garage to re-check that. Maybe the article was about Philippe Gache.

Allen

allenbrown

13 Sep 2008, 17:26

I hope nobody will mind that I've ripped this from TNF.

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/3962/rir201960s20start600x32yq9.jpg
This is from Riverside 1966 ARRC Race Nov. 27, 1966.
This race was won by Don Morin in the #101 Brabham and the pole-sitter was Dr. Lou Sell in a LeGrand. Lou Sell was a DNF.
photo Davey Jordon collection- research Rick Hayden Originally posted by Allen Brown
I think it's a BT15/BT16 front left, maybe McMillan; Sell in a LeGrand on the right; a BT18 on the left of the second row, maybe Morin; and on the right of the second row is a car that could be (just maybe - I'm not doing very well so far this evening!) the F1 Brabham BT7 of McIntosh. Morin had had a very quick FB Brabham earlier in 1966; McMillan a FB Ausca-Alfa; McMillan a FA Elva-Corvair.

Jerry - if you're here - do you have a larger scan of this picture?

Allen Originally posted by Chris Townsend

Fred Opert's stock list for 27 November 1969 has a Brabham BT18 for sale, described as "ex Don Morin national champion". As far as I can see 1966 was the only year when Morin won either at ARRC or his regional championship

Chris I missed your post Chris. Putting the bits together, the Brabham in which Morin won the 1966 Run-Offs and also the "1966 F2" Brabham that he drove at Bridgehampton in 1967 must be an ex-F2 BT18.

But which one? There weren't that many F2 BT18s and most are seen again in 1967. The ex-Winkelmann/Rees F2-23-66? Of course it could all be a red herring and it's an ex-F3 BT18 or even an upgraded BT15.

Allen