The real BMWs

It's often said that many people drive a BMW because of brand image. With the new 1 series even BMW themselves have said it provides a chance for buyers to own a BM at a lower price. With all this niche widening which are the real BMWs, the stand out models of the past and present that were, are much better than the competition and make a BMW worth owning? :cool:

e46 M3 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=59)

http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/2004/10/02/fs_m3_pic_csl.jpg

328 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_328)

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/17-bmw-328.jpg

e12 M535i (http://www.e12e28.ch/weblinks/15a05000.htm)

http://www.m535i.org/corepics/e12-m535i-bw-1.jpg

Z1

http://www.bmwccn.no/eng/chapter2/articles/roadster4_bld1.jpg

I drive a BMW. Couldn't care less about the badge or the image. It's rear-wheel drive and almost nothing else is, that's why I bought it.

My three favourite Beemers:

M635CSi (http://www.m635.de/de/mym6.html)

The 02 series (http://members.optushome.com.au/abmw/bmw_02/1974_BMW_2002ti.jpg)

The 1800 TI/SA (http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/bmw/1073539781/1073539781pc.htm)

BMWs are so ugly these days it can only be brand image that makes someone drive one.

You can't see it from inside it. Who cares what it looks like? Mines a '96 316 which is far from the prettiest they ever built. Handles well, good acceleration (particularly for overtaking) for a 1600 and not to bad on the petrol. It tows the caravan well and is extremely reliable too, so I don't worry much about appearance.

Fair enough then!

I think BMW have lost thier way. Sure they are still great cars, but most are too soft and leaning towards the general public rather than the driving enthusiast. My favourite car of all time is the 2002 Turbo, and I love the e30 (I've owned three of them)

Nowadays they make nothing even like that. It's very sad.

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

The funny thing is that the e46 3 series was styled by Bangle, and it's a good looking car, IMO. The latest 5 series looks its best in dark colours.
The 7 series predecessor, 2500-3.3 saloons, was an impressive machine. The 1972 3.0 Si had 200 bhp, 4 wheel discs, electronic fuel injection and 140 mph top speed. :cool:

e3 BMW 2500- 3.0, 3.3Li (http://www.progressive-engineering.com/e3/images/turbo_black.jpg)

Out of the 02 range the 2002 turbo was the first turbo car in Europe, ever! :)

1973/74 2002 turbo with mirror script spoiler (http://www.motorbase.com/pictures/contributions/990330-european/std_1973_bmw_2002_turbo.jpg)

0-60 under 7 seconds, top speed over 130 mph. :cool:

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??! They're world market share increased more than any other equivalent marque & is going to increase more with these new models.

I drive a 330cis & the reason I bought it was simply because nothing came close for what I wanted, power, handling, refinement, comfort, good looks, reliability & good Residual Values.

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull

BMW's sell themselves for the very reasons that I wanted one & poor opposition just strengthens their position

Dissection time... :D

BMW has certainly not lost its way.
Agreed - at least Bangle's cars are distinctive, and they still do everything as well as BMW's ever did.
The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles...
Do you have figures for that? Is that global, Europe or UK? I thought the XJ was top selling large exec in the UK (rightly so too).

The 3 series outsells the mondeo...
And the new 3 series looks great. I still wouldn't buy one, but that's me... I have an anti-image thing, mainly cos of all the self centred shallow fashion victims that drive them in Cheshire... ;)

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)
Now Mercedes have lost their way - in dealer service as much as quality... people still buy the badge, but when the dealer service at BMW and Lexus is infinitely better they'll defect in the end.

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.
I like the 9-5, but it really isn't even close to the 5 series in handling. And I fear for what GM are going to do to future Saabs - the 9-3 is ok, but the interior quality is noticeably poorer than the older 9-5.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull
Audi build quality is still the benchmark, but dealer service is nearly as bad as Merc, and Audis look poor value next to their VAG counterparts. Still fancy an RS6 though... :cool:

I'm a kind of anti-badge snob I suppose, so the very thing that attracts many buyers to Audi/BMW/Mercedes actually puts me off. My Subaru Legacy has all the quality, refinement and kit of any of them, with a throughly neutral image - suits me fine. Of the more established 'quality' brands, Jaguar are recovering well - the XJ is easily the best car in its class - and Lexus have the quality, reliability and service that Mercedes had twenty years ago.

As a racing driver and regardless of style and image, I have often have driven BMWs because they are fun to drive and excellent cars mechanically. I have had a Z3, two 5 series and two 3 series. I have to admit though that I greatly dislike the new 3 series (the back has no appeal to me) as I was fond of the previous model. I still cannot figure out if I like the Z4 or not, which means probably not...I'm not fond of the 5 series either (although it seems to me the most visually acceptable model in the range) and the 7 series trunk looks like it was just added on top of the rest of the car....The 1 series does not look striking to me either...So altough their products are technically unquestionable, I've stopped buying BMW and went for a Peugeot 407 : cheap enough, great looking car, competent chassis and does 80% of what a series 3 does. I'll go back to BMW when I have both the driving fun factor and joy to look at them. For the kind of money they're asking, that's the least I expect.

I would counter the fact that Mercedes' quality is still poor - the new cars that they're bringing out at the moment...new M-class, for instance - address the criticisms and the problems of late. Still a long way to go, though.

The BMW 7-series bombed when it was first released - most of the sales come from China and the Far East where the love its odd looks...but the recent facelift comes just over a year after the car was launched...hardly a part of the usual model cycle.

Originally posted by Garcon

And the new 3 series looks great. I still wouldn't buy one, but that's me... I have an anti-image thing, mainly cos of all the self centred shallow fashion victims that drive them in Cheshire...

That why you got rid of the Scooby? :p

Favourite BMW's?

The 02 range - way ahead of its time in my opinion. When it came out it blew away the opposition. And when I first read of the 2002 Turbo I got myself a huge wall poster of the car for my bedroom wall. At the time I was a teenager and lived close to BMW GB on the A4 Great West Road in Brentford and saw my first ever Turbo there. I did hear a tale that the mirror "Turbo" writing was too aggresive and was subsequently banned. Anyone know more on this?

The 1800/2000 range before it - chiefly because my Dad let me drive his 2000 TiLux. It was a very rare beast - boasting two twin choke Webers (I think they were Webers). It did 0-50 in 7.3 seconds which was kind of amazing back then - you could blow almost anything away! In return for letting me drive it I got the job of cleaning all those lovely carbs and linkages...

The Batmobile.... An amazing looking car that, once all those add on bits had been homolgated, simply dominated touring car racing. A couple of years back there was a print hanging on the wall in my local BMW dealership and I knew I had to have a copy... Sure enough, the print was listed as on official BMW part and a copy now hangs proudly at home.

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??!
Well since I'm the one who used the words "lost thier way" I feel I should point out that I gave reasons why I thought they've lost it, and it had nothing to do with how many cars they sell, what they look like, or what kind of build quality they have.

My fav: E30 M3, not too big, not too small, and the bulging guards...awesome

http://www.s14.ctmnet.de/0150/02.jpg
http://www.bmwpower.cz/magazin/m3-e30/image002.jpg
http://bmw.hlabs.spb.ru/pics/bmwe30_4.jpg
http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~templates/bmwccgb/mondello_pics/e30_m3_evo.jpg

E36 M3 (the later versions of it) look hot too :cool:


I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

I don't mind it, for a Bangle design it doesn't look that bad, it does look pretty clean.

I Marshalled a track day on Saturday, It was a Porsche day but a current M3 came along, by half way through the day the Engine was sounding rough as hell and it seemed to have a bit of trouble with the brakes too, And the body roll was scary!!
Now the Ariel Atom that was on track was awesome!

The BMW 2002 turbo front spoiler mirror script was removed when the 1974 cars came on stream. The car was launched when the fuel crisis came along, media and public sentiment was against what they felt was an inappropriate car for the time (fast & thirsty), and they didn't like the boy racer concept for the spoiler mirror script.
I too was surprised by the post saying the new 7 series had sold well. The 80s M3 was a standout car, probably still the best M3 of all time. It was a real racer, and had the looks too.
The BMW 503 of the 50s was styled by Goertz, the man who did the BMW 507 and Datsun 240Z. The 503 V8 was a much admired convertible and coupe in its day, but it's high price meant it wasn't a sales success, pity.

1950s BMW 503 V8 (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/657-1.jpg)

hi there

i would nominate the 635 & the CSL as the best,though my mum had a A reg 525ie (apparently rare as even the insurance companies hadn't heard of it)
it had a long stroke 2.7 engine & although it wasn't fast it would do 60 mpg (no lie) when my old (hated) 728i couldn't do more than 15mpg

not worried about modern BMW'S as i would never buy one anyway but each to his own

d-b

Favourite BMW's now let's see...

The R90S - very collectable now
The R100RS - not yet collectable so I want one real bad. A good early model will be an investment for sure. Something I will do in this life.
The K1100RS - I had one for six years and rode the thing daily, a couple of months ago I saw my bike (with a group of other bikes) outside a cafe and nearly fell off the Daytona turning around and going back for a look. It was like meeting a ex-lover after four years separation, I knew every curve and every scratch, well the ones I put there at least.

And today the Daytona is in the shop getting a reburnt ECU - bugger you Triumph! And the shop dudes gave me a 12 year old K1100LT with the works to ride. And a gentlemanly conveyance it is.

I know a chap who had an R80ST for years, ran it into the ground- several times!
Bomb proof engineering.

The 155 mph BMW turbo gullwing sportscar, powered by a 200 bhp version of the 2002 turbo motor. :)

http://www.idcenter.co.jp/bracq/40.jpg

on test track (http://www.bmwworld.com/images/cars/concepts/picturbo_2.jpg)

interior (http://www.bmwworld.com/images/cars/concepts/turbo_interior.jpg)

:cool:

I drive an E30 325 sedan, and love it to death. The M20 engine is bulletproof, the car handles beautifully - even in the snow.

I'll take any E30 or a 635CSi.

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

Nope - I think it is stunning. The best looking in its class.

BMW 745i turbo, turbocharged I6 luxury automatic cruiser of the early to mid 80s. Lots of buttons to play with. ;)

745i (http://www.bmwe23.de/745iA%20Exe/745iA-Executive-mit-ATC-und.jpg)

3.2/3.5 turbo (http://www.bmwe23.de/images/TurboPeter/Turbomotor.jpg)

gadgets! (http://www.bmwe23.de/images/TurboPeter/peter21.jpg)

BMW is my second favourite marque (after Aston Martin, which I can only afford to think about!) and most of their cars have been great. However, appearance does make a difference to me and most of the Chris Bangle designs don't personally appeal. My favourites in age order:-

1970s - E9 3.0CSI & CSL (Simple beauty)
1979-81 - E12 M535i (The original 'Q' car?)
1985-89 - E24 M635CSI (the original M6!)
1980s - E30 3 series
1990 (early) - E31 8 series (much maligned but fabulous looking)
1990 (late) - E46 3 series
1998- 2003(?) - M Coupe (mad and marvellous)


I'm fortunate enough to own a couple of the above but I'm not saying which!

In the past I've seriously looked at buying a 2002 and a 3.0 Si (as mentioned earlier by MattC), other classic ones would have to be E30 & E36 325i's, and E34 535i's (yes please) and I would really like to have an M Coupe. I do remember thinking when the E36 was released "they've gone fat and soft" - each successive generation has to a certain degree, but conversely they are not necessarily worse cars either.

The 3.0 Si was a manual only car, only the carb 3.0s could have an automatic. The pre 1976 3.0 Si had the full 200 bhp D jetronic 6 cylinder, then they lost 5 hp in 1976 when the engine got L jetronic injection, I think they lowered the compression ratio too. There aren't many left around.
I think it has taken the arrival of the current e46 M3 to get the M3 back where it was when the e30 M3 was going, the in between versions were a bit soft.

1974 520 advert (http://www.motorbase.com/pictures/contributions/990913/std_1974_bmw_520_japanese_advert.jpg)

e23 730 (http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/2003/08/08/fs_bmw7er_e23-1b.jpg)

My current road car is an E34 535i 5-speed from 1989, but can't say I'm a great fan of the new cars, with the exception of the E46 M3 CSL.

Favourites would be the 3.0 CS/CSi/CSL, the E12 M535i, the M635CSi, the E28 M5 and E34 M5. Also quite like the E36 M3 (evo model) with 321bhp from 3.2L but my all time favourite would be the E30 M3 and its Evolution models.

These days BMW seem to be in some sort of insane competition with Mercedes to see how much electronic junk they can fit into the car. Mind you.... I don't think they have quite as many problems as Mercedes.....

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com :eek:

I was just reading about some technology in Italy where they are using software, GPS and hydraulics to get rid of the steering wheel in cars. So they steer themselves for a set journey. Nice idea, but what happens when it doesn't work?
750iL, for captains of industry with deep pockets. :D

http://my750.com/my750-1.jpg

Hi Line trim!! (http://bmwe32.student.utwente.nl/images/gallery/750-highline/750-11kkm-358-1_000291-1.jpg)

Look at all the toys!! (http://bmwe32.student.utwente.nl/images/gallery/750-highline/750-11k-km-358-1_000291-3.jpg)

The X5 fully loaded with 20inch alloys full Schnitzer body kit and very safe.

"safe" for drug dealers maybe...

I think they take them off them now....I mean for big crashes.

Actually 4x4's are proven to be less safe in big crashes... because with such a high centre of gravity they're far more likely to roll. And that's before you consider what they do to the other car.

True I rolled mine at 40mph but at least i walked away without a scratch.

Well, here are two BMWs that won't topple at 40 mph. :laugh:

Batmobile (http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/vintage/7878_1024.jpg)

700 RS (http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/vintage/4356_1024.jpg)

Here's suitable Beemers for guys under 25... :D

Isetta (http://www.isomillennium.it/immagini/gallery_isetta/ernesto_parodi_isetta.jpg)

600 (http://www.microcars.org/make_large.asp?src=/graphics/BMW-600.jpg&name=BMW%20600)

700 (http://auta5p.car.cz/katalog/bmw/bmw_700_03.htm)

alpina.

say no more.

Alpina had the right idea about the e31 8 series. :cool:

B12 5.0 (http://www.possi.de/alpina/alpina.html)

B12 5.7

http://www4.tripnet.se/~niclas/bmw/foto/highres/AlpinaB125.7Coupe.gif

I hope no-one minds me resurrecting this old thread. It won't be a surprise to anyone to learn that I think my old M635CSI is a 'Real' BMW, so here's a bigger pic. of it (I'm sure you all know by now to click on thumbnail, but I'll say it anyway!):-

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/759/clubracedaysilverstone03200502.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clubracedaysilverstone03200502.jpg)

The classic fast square rigged style of the BMW 3.0Si. :cool:

http://www.seniorsix.org/e3info/roadtest/roadtest_1.jpg

Very neat shape, except for the silly over-sized 'American' front bumper, which I think rather spoils it in that form.

Very neat shape, except for the silly over-sized 'American' front bumper, which I think rather spoils it in that form.

Yeah, remember the Volvo 240 bumpers? I think everyone hated those, and the image stuck on Volvo for many tears. Practical,..but so is polyester. ;)

Yes, they were awful too, though you could say that Volvo were starting at a lower level on the aesthetically-pleasing spectrum!

Speaking of aesthetically pleasing I have always thought that the Z3 shape was very nice, much better than the latest Z4. The Z3 may never have had the chassis/mechanicals to claim greatness, but the shape looked good, maybe that was the whole point of the car? :cool:

Mmm, not sure about that Matt, although I always loved the M coupe based on the Z3, not because it was aestheically pleasing but because it was such an unusual and manic looking car, as well as being quick. Now the new Z4 coupe looks like an instant collectors car. Classic front-engined, rear wheel drive GT, in my book!

I like the M 635CSi.

The purists will probably cringe, but as a mad Super Touring fan, i really like the E36 320i.

I like the Z4 (roadster and coupe) except for the nose, I think the headlights are just wrong and the grille seems oddly placed. The "flame surfacing" of the body side is a bit unusual but it is a proper sportscar feature like the profile of the Austin Healeys and AC Ace/Cobra. I agree regarding the Z3 M Coupe (desirable if not "pretty"), but the roadster doesn't do much for me, it is a bit too bland.

E36s are not quite classic, but what do you think of this (http://www.nash8503.com/) and this (http://www.vorshlag.com/ls1bmw1.asp)? (Chev LS1 V8 powered E36s)

I always loved the M coupe based on the Z3, not because it was aestheically pleasing but because it was such an unusual and manic looking car, as well as being quick.

I think there is a big engineering distinction between the Z3 and the M versions of the Z3, big gulf between an early M44 4 cyl Z3 and the 321 bhp M version of the Z3 roadster. Certainly the M version is well worth having, but I wasn't a fan of the hunchback Munster styling of the coupe version of what, 1998 vintage?:p

I thought the roofline was somewhat like the MGB GT believe it or not

You know, I've changed my mind since the last time I replied to this thread and, having seen many on the streets now, I hve to say that the new BMW 3 series looks fntastic. In fact, the only part I don't like so much is the back as I think it might be a little too "conservative"

Are we talking E46, here, Sharky? If so, I tend to agree; much more purposeful than the understated E36.

Nope, although it might cause the wrath of fellow forum members, I'm talking about the E90.

Ah, well, at the moment I struggle with identifying some of these Bangle cars. I know each new generation of BMWs seems to get bigger but doesn't the latest 3 series seem really big, almost like 5 series size? I'm not sure that I don't confuse the two! I'm always at least one generation behind on BMW identification! Still liked the E46 though!

I thought the roofline was somewhat like the MGB GT believe it or not

Also like the Volvo 1800ES sports estate. It shows that BMW never likes to offend with the 3 series because the e46 3 series was done by Bungle and it looked fine. The current e90 3 series 4 door is probably the best looking car BMW make today. But as for the e65 7 series and the current 5 series, they are still best in dark colours, whereas the e90 even looks ok in white.:)