Bloody Mercedes - another engine change for Kimi

Apparently Kimi's engine has a suspect inlet valve so Mercedes have said it needs to be changed before qualifying.

So that's a ten place penalty.

I suppose the inherent pace means at least there's a chance of still winning here.

At this rate a new slang term can be coined. To lose something despite total superiority is to 'McLaren' it. They have had the fastest car almost every time, yet have only won half the time, despite the advantage of a Friday tester, two experienced test drivers and perhaps the best driving duo in F1. And the thing is, virtually everyone except Kimi has made mistakes along the way.

I know a lot of people are McLaren haters - for no good reason it seems - but the problems are engine related most of the time.

Kimi has made mistakes - stalling on the grid at Melbourne and flatspotting heavily at the Nurburgring.

In reality, their record this year is better than anyone elses, except Renault.

But still.

Bloody Mercedes.

The thing is, if JPM gets pole (AND his engine lasts!!!) he can help Raikkonen. This way, Kimi could win. JPM is not fighting for the championship, so he can just help and the Renaults don't seem too strong here, so Raikkonen could end up in front of Alonso and he could probably even win (JPM would obviously have to let him win, but I suppose he would do that anyway)

And of course it's better to make this precautionary change now rather than leave it and have it blow up in the race.

of course

Why the :censored: ... Damn this is so depressing, that is just almost starting to get funny again ....

But at least the race will be even more intresting, from behalf of McLaren/Kimi-fans.

Still, the transformation from McLaren 2004 to 2005 has been enormous.

I'm optimistic about 2006.

Montoya has to win. Yet more ten places back for Kimi.

The rules should punish constructor points, not the driver! It kills a title chase.

I think Kimi can still win. The McLaren's have been awesomely quick all weekend.

Well I hope Montoya is on a fat fuel load so he holds up Alonso and the pack and Kimi is on a light fuel load so he can be fast early and pit in no traffic and hopefully move up.

I belive both Montoya and Kimi are very heavy ... and I hope the strategy will be the same. Just question what Fissi will do. Can he hold Kimi up ????

The rules should punish constructor points, not the driver! It kills a title chase. Been discussed 1000 times before.... some teams would be almost certainly be prepared to ditch the constructor points in each race to get race wins... in fact I'm sure BAR have said they were more interested in race wins this year.

That doesn't stop me feeling sorry for Kimi.... on the other hand, if you need to win from 11th, the McLaren is the car to have.

Is this the first time a driver has qualified fastest but had to take an engine penalty? Who will the statistics record as the pole-setter?

Drivers have made up the 10 places in the race before now, such as Button at Hockenheim last year, McLaren seem to have a little in hand on the other cars (I expected JPM to be faster than he was, perhaps they fuelled him heavy with the intention of taking pole with as heavy a car as possible, so as to hopefully hold up Alonso and help Kimi get to him?), and I'm sure McLaren will find a way for Kimi to beat JPM (they'd better keep a dodgy fuel rig in reserve), so maybe Kimi can win?

The focus has to be the constructors now for McLaren.

Kimi probably can't win tomorrow, unless JPM lets him past. Let's see if Ron sticks to his "I don't care which driver wins the races" motto he coined at Turkey.

In all honesty, I think a McLaren constructors win and Alonso drivers championship win would be the fairest reflection of 2005. I know a lot would disagree, but I say that as a big fan of both Kimi and Alonso (as well as JPM of course!).

Mind you, McLaren seem intent on throwing away the constructors as well! Where has their reliability gone, they were excellent in the first half season!

Is this the first time a driver has qualified fastest but had to take an engine penalty? Who will the statistics record as the pole-setter? That's what I was wondering.... and who does the 10 TENTHS F1 Results Prediction competition consider to have got pole?

yeah, I mean, these engine failures have been ruining my predictions since June!!!! :(

Hopefully this will Max Mosley something to think about.

Nah, I don't reckon Max is too concerned about the prediction competition.

Nah, I don't reckon Max is too concerned about the prediction competition.

He should be concerned about the fairness and entertainment in Formula 1.

no, he should also be concerned about these stupid regulations ruining my predictions! I mean COME ON!!!!!!!! It's so unfair!! :rofl:

Well they tried something with the engine and it did not work out too well.. Kimi appears unfazed as ever.

Well they tried something with the engine and it did not work out too well.. Kimi appears unfazed as ever.


Who says they tried something and that it didn't just.. brake?

It was a new spec of engine.


Anyway - the fastest car/driver is starting down the grid - that'll add to the entertainment.

juan's gotta be credited with pole...that's what the regulations say

same thing happend in WTCC . and James Thompson was credited for pole ..

same thing happend in WTCC . and James Thompson was credited for pole ..
u mean he had the fastest time and was docked places...or he inherited pole?

It was a new spec of engine.


Anyway - the fastest car/driver is starting down the grid - that'll add to the entertainment.

Without the parc fermé-regulations, it would have been more usual that the fastest car would start down the grid.

u mean he had the fastest time and was docked places...or he inherited pole?


Inherited

Darn.

As if the WDC challenge that Kimi faces isn't tough enough.... Mercedes decides to make it harder.

Com'on. I'd seriously have loved Kimi & Mclaren overtake Renault/Alonso and win the WDC. I won't like to see the smug look of Ron...but hell, sure beats seeing Flavio jumping around :p

Kimi would be extremely disappointed and frustrated. Often, his work is made harder, and no doubt, at the end of the season..he'd rue at what might have been.

I don't care what Mclaren employ tomorrow. If there is a need to impose team orders, do it. It's a real world out there.

On the bright side, i'm sure Mclarens would be able to go far faster than anybody...and further too. Their Turkey pace is so huge that there's no way Renault can live with unless something goes wrong for Mclaren (be it car,driver,engine failure).

And Monza's a good place to overtake for fast cars...and i've no doubt, bar any misfortunes, Kimi is still in the chance for victory!

Go Kimi!

And to Rubens/Michael...great effort!

At this rate a new slang term can be coined. To lose something despite total superiority is to 'McLaren' it. They have had the fastest car almost every time, yet have only won half the time, despite the advantage of a Friday tester, two experienced test drivers and perhaps the best driving duo in F1. And the thing is, virtually everyone except Kimi has made mistakes along the way.


LOOK EVERYONE OVER HERE! QUICK DONT MISS IT!!!!!!

someone on ten tenths said something positive about montoya!!!! i never thought id see, or maybe i didnt and im making it up! :rofl:

Credit to Norbert Haug - he says Mercedes are "not doing a good enough job".

Yes, credit to Mercedes and Haug for doing a less than perfect job.

Kimi probably can't win tomorrow, unless JPM lets him past. Let's see if Ron sticks to his "I don't care which driver wins the races" motto he coined at Turkey.

I think what Ron meant to say was 'I don't care which driver wins the races, as long as he's Finnish'

Who took the decission to change the engine?

Mercedes?
McLaren?
Haug?

I think what Ron meant to say was 'I don't care which driver wins the races, as long as he's Finnish'In that case he must be quite annoyed at Coulthard, who managed to steal 12 wins from his Finnish team mates.

Credit to Norbert Haug - he says Mercedes are "not doing a good enough job".


That's for sure :)

So what chances the Mercedes units last at Spa after the slog of Monza then?

Slim?

Well, they won Hungary and Turkey on the same engine.

It doesn't seem to be a mileage issue - more that it's mistakes by engine technicians not screwing bits on properly etc.

Well, they won Hungary and Turkey on the same engine.

It doesn't seem to be a mileage issue - more that it's mistakes by engine technicians not screwing bits on properly etc.Are those guys from Mercedes?
Or are they from McLaren?

Mercedes, according to Norbert Haug.

Well, they won Hungary and Turkey on the same engine.

It doesn't seem to be a mileage issue - more that it's mistakes by engine technicians not screwing bits on properly etc.

Yeah, it's funny, the engines don't usually break on the second gp (well, that's partly because they hardly ever last this much :laugh:). I can't understand how so many mistakes can happen in 20 engines! :(

Well, they won Hungary and Turkey on the same engine.

It doesn't seem to be a mileage issue - more that it's mistakes by engine technicians not screwing bits on properly etc.

I'm thinking about the engine duty cycle here, which is the most crucial aspect. far more so than mileage.

71% full throttle at Monza and now they move onto Spa, another power track.

I wouldn't be too confident to bet on them lasting, but they likely will just about reach the end.

aaah, this kind of stats simply don't work for those engines. They might fall apart at any given moment with no obvious reason, so statistics don't really help ;)

Well stats don't work for Mercedes I agree. It's like they decide off the cuff to have a bad weekend. Eccentrics, that's what I call 'em. ;)

As I've said before (several times, and to hoots of defensve derision from a certain someone(!)) McLaren must trade a smidge of their massive performance advantage for reliability or they will lose the Constructor's as well as the Driver's. It is true that their extreme approach is what has delivered them such a fast car in the first place, but they just have to be realistic - at the moment, the car IS (come on k-b, admit it) an inherently unreliable package.

I do also think that Kimi should be worried about the engine for Spa - he would not have been holding back yesterday, plus Monza is hard on engines.

I am just appalled at the way McLaren continue to favour one driver. Just like with Renault, Ferrari and DC before him, the no.2 gets all the bad luck and reliability problems. ;)

:rofl: hahahahahaha ;)

Glen, I would not be surprised if Kimi changed his engine again to avoid further trouble before Spa.

Menelaos - that thought has occured to me too, it probably would be the wise choice from the point of view of trying to get ahead in the WCC.

Yeah, I mean, as they showed today, they can even win after the 10 place penalty, so why not? On the other hand, it seems only 70% of those engines works, so if they decide to change it I really hope they can find a WORKING one to put on the car, or Kimi will find himself starting 20th.....

But the engines which have blown for McLaren this year have generally been new or newish anyway.

It's not like they've gone close to the end of life then expired.

Perhaps you can make a case that if you've got an engine that has done a race and not failed then you know you've got one which isn't bad. :)

Not neccesarilly, wasn't his Silverstone failure on the engine that had done the race at France

Yes, but it had only done a qualifying lap and the race, before blowing in practice at Silverstone.

So it was only about half way through its scheduled life.

Lucky it went when it did rather than in the race, I suppose.