What about this 50s car ?

I search to find what is this car. Do you have any ideas ?
I think this picture has been taken at Silverstone but I'm not sure...

http://www.lemierre.info/xpquizzphoto/quizz5_photo6.jpg

Maybe a triumph .

I rekon thats a Lister Jag ?

It's an Alfa 8C 2900 with body by Carrozzeria Touring which was built for the 1938 Le Mans race, which is probably where the picture was taken.

Could be wrong but I believe that's a late 1930's or early 1940's Alfa Romeo Coupe.


You were there before me, and far more accurate!!!!

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

I like that safety fence !!!

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve break, resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

Well don't forget we are talking 1938 here. However, I agree that, unless you knew, the appearance of the car could suggest an early 1950's picture.

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

Also released by a company called Pinko (worth looking out for) and as a handbuilt by Provence Moulage (just before they went bust).

Minichamps model looks like this,
http://www.minichamps.de/content_frames/main_produktliste_detail.asp?cat1=0&cat2=158&cat3=160&cat4=168
Pinko like this,
http://www.gammamodels.com/modello.asp?idauton=265

The Alfa 8C LM coupe was informally known as "The Devil's Breath."

The Alfa 8C LM coupe was informally known as "The Devil's Breath."
Why?

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve brake resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

Just to add, it was basically the lone challenger to the hordes of French Delages, Delahayes and Talbots, which otherwise dominated sportscar racing in the 1930s. The Alfa ran ahead of them - and the Bugatti race recod pace from the year before - before backing off a bit.

Such was it's lead it took the eventual winner an hour or more to actually overhaul the distance covered by the Alfa. One of the great hard-luck stories of Le Mas history.

It's one of my all-time favourites, partly due to that story, and partly due to its appearance. I've always preferred coupes, and that was one of the few closed cars to appear at Le Mans before WW2. I think it's fantastic!

As an extra note, I believe there was a smaller engined Alfa 8C entered the following year with similar bodywork, but that car had a nightmare run.

than you for your answers ! ;) :cool:

today's picture :rotate:

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/4800/DSC03812.jpg

So that's where BMW got the idea!

Beautiful car; beautiful photo. Thanks, guys.

So that's where BMW got the idea!

Are you referring to the 328 Coupe that finished 5th at Le Mans in 1939? There were certainly some styling similarities.

J.J.S.S, noting that you have found a modern picture of this car, were you just testing us, and already knew what it was, or have you found the picture, since? No matter, it's a great car; one to die for! ;)

Incidentally, any chance the mods here can move this to the Historics forum, (when they think it appropriate, of course!), please?

Are you referring to the 328 Coupe that finished 5th at Le Mans in 1939? There were certainly some styling similarities.

J.J.S.S, noting that you have found a modern picture of this car, were you just testing us, and already knew what it was, or have you found the picture, since? No matter, it's a great car; one to die for! ;)

Incidentally, any chance the mods here can move this to the Historics forum, (when they think it appropriate, of course!), please?

No, I'm referring to the much more recent M-Coupe and the newer Z4-based "breadwagon." The resemblence in the Le Mans pits photo is erie.

Well, in a way there could be a link. The M coupe (which I think is a wonderful crazy tool) was based on the Z3 which was decidedly, and intentionally retro (as to a certain extent is the Z4), and clearly took its styling cues from earlier BMWs. The BMW coupe I mentioned above had a styling much in common with the Alfa, so you may well have identified the link.

Just to add, it was basically the lone challenger to the hordes of French Delages, Delahayes and Talbots, which otherwise dominated sportscar racing in the 1930s.
Eh?
Just run through the 1930s Le Mans winners for me again could you?
And the Mille Miglia
And the Spa 24hr

I think KRT got a little carried away here, but certainly the Alfa in the 1938 Le Mans race was one of only two in the race and was heavily outnumbered by a heavy contingency of French 'big guns'. Perhaps, in respect of Le Mans at any rate, he should have said second half of the 30's, since Alfas did win from 1931 to 1934, but never again.

Eh?
Just run through the 1930s Le Mans winners for me again could you?
And the Mille Miglia
And the Spa 24hr

Yes, sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific - I was referring to the late 1930s.

The Germans were dominating GP racing by, with the Italians occasionally having a go at them, and winning in voiturette racing, whilst some of the French companies turned to Sportscar racing, hence three straight wins at Le Mans '37-'39.

However, I take your point about Alfas, who were always quick in the Mille Miglia and, taking the 1930s as a whole, were probably the most successful sportscar marque.

Nice thread guys - very enjoyable to read. Thanks. :)

Now available as a 1:43 model from Minichamps!

Yes, indeed, Dave! ;)

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

Actually, I'm surprised that it's not sold out, by now! I got mine nearly a year ago. You'd think that with a combination of Alfa model collectors, Le Mans model collectors, along with those interested in the rarer more exotic cars, especially with an interesting history like this one, it would have sold like the proverbial 'hot cakes'!

Yes, indeed, Dave! ;)

Oops......how did I miss that? :bag:

My excuse is that it's illustrated in the December 'Model Auto Review' so I assumed that it was a new model!

It's great that there are models of this. Only thing about the Minichamps one is that I think the red is too dark, especially going by J.J.S.S. Express's picture of the real car at the bottom of page 1...

BBR did a very nice handlbuild of the 2.9 coupe a few years ago as well (which I have in company with the two BBR short-chassis Touring Spyders). It makes the Minichamps an even better value for money, although I don't believe that either company got the tail just exactly correct.

Only thing about the Minichamps one is that I think the red is too dark, especially going by J.J.S.S. Express's picture of the real car at the bottom of page 1...

I've never seen the Minichamps model (or the real car!) but the photo in Model Auto Review does make it look a very dark red. The photo of the real car in 'Alfa Romeo - Always With Passion' by David Owen makes it look a much lighter red than J.J.'s picture......

What we're up against is the vagaries of colour reproduction - only by seeing the model & the real car together can we be really sure; then there's always the problem that a car as old as this will probably not have it original paint, so we can't be sure of its exact colour when raced at Le Mans.

It makes the Minichamps an even better value for money, although I don't believe that either company got the tail just exactly correct.

Yes, it's quite an unusual shape, probably difficult to replicate exactly.

What we're up against is the vagaries of colour reproduction - only by seeing the model & the real car together can we be really sure; then there's always the problem that a car as old as this will probably not have it original paint, so we can't be sure of its exact colour when raced at Le Mans.

Very true, and red seems to be particularly problematic. I have (well, had, it seems to have gone missing in a recent move!) a Solido model of the 1970 Le Mans winning 917. The model is orange, but a picture I have of it shows it to be more red (which is certainly the colour that other Porsche Salzburg cars seem to use). Looking into it a bit more closely, I found that many pictures, and the several models produced of the car, presented very different shades. I'm still certain that the car was more red than orange!

As for the Alfa tail, I would imagine that it is a particularly difficult shape to capture. I was fortunate enough to see the real car at the Goodwood Festival a few years back, and I remember thinking how unusual it looked from the back.

I recently had the good fortune to speak to Simon Moore, author of two works about pre war Alfas, 'The Immortal 2.9' and 'The Legendary 2.3' which are the Alfa bibles for these models. I took the opportunity of raising the issue about authenticity of colours for these cars and in particular the 1938 Le Mans car. He advised that it is simply not possible to be a 100% certain of the correct colour shade of any car from the 30's, due to the constituency of the paints used since the aging process (as referred to by Dave, above) includes chemical reactions that alter the shade over time. Even where the original paint is found under layers of new paint or on some obscure untouched part of the car, there is no guarantee that the colour shade that you are looking at is the same as it appeared 60 or 70 years ago because it will still have been affected by oxidisation. Even early post war colour film will not help since different film brands would produce different shades of colour even where all the other circumstances (location, lighting, etc) were identical. The best we can rely on in these cases are peoples memories and, of course, not only does memory fade and play tricks on you, there are fewer and fewer people around who will have seen these cars first hand. The upshot of all this is that Minichamps have interpreted the original colour to the best of their ability. Although from a purely personal point of view, I would have liked to see a bit more red and a couple of shades lighter, because that's how I pictured it in my mind, who is to say they are wrong!

Fair point!

I'm not sure whether to be disappointed or pleased that, despite all the technology the human race has developed in the last 100 years, we still can't determine for sure the colour of a car that took part in an international motor race less than 70 years ago!

As for the model, I also prefer the colour that the real car is now compared to that of the model, but there's always a chance Minichamps might be right!