Biggest surprise come Bahrain?

Assuming the F1 does not alter its schedule, Bahrain will be the first race in '06. I know we already have a predictions thread, but what team do you think will emerge as biggest surprise right from the get-go? I know its way too early but that's what makes it fun.
I'm going to choose Honda first and hedge my bet somewhat by also choosing Williams. If the reliability is there, I look for both of those teams to potentially be fighting for a podium finish in Bahrain.

1/ Honda
2/ Williams

Here's (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=106263) an ambitious team that might surprise us all.

Felipe Massa, I'm hoping will do a good job. Honda, Toyota and Williams also. But my major expectation for the whole year, is Red Bull. I'd like to see them challenging.

PAUL

i think a strong start from Toyota, but their early success last year coupled with the early roll out will make this less of a surprise though.
also i expect/hope/pray BMW Sauber F1 will have an excellent year, and by that i mean they will move to the front of the midfield pack with steady points throughout the season and at least three podium finishes.

If you can predict it, it's not a surprise. What you're really asking is "which team are people under-estimating". I'd say Williams are set for a great start to the season, with Cosworth's V8 experience. Webber could feasibly be in the championship top 5 mid-season, although I'd expect Honda, Red Bull and perhaps BMW Sauber to all be stronger by the end of the season.

i think a strong start from Toyota, but their early success last year coupled with the early roll out will make this less of a surprise though.
also i expect/hope/pray BMW Sauber F1 will have an excellent year, and by that i mean they will move to the front of the midfield pack with steady points throughout the season and at least three podium finishes.



I meant this thread to predict surprises for the first race and perhaps the first quarter of the season ONLY. Of course things will change, and perhaps drastically but the V8 could shake up the grid early on.

I suspect that the real surprises will manifest themselves during testing in February (i.e. when most of the teams will be fine tuning their 2006 contenders). I have, at this juncture, absolutely no clue as to how it will unfold by Bahrain. I suspect that Renault will still be the team to beat this year. Reliability has not been McLaren's forte in the last few years and the loss of Ron Dennis will be felt.

Don't you mean Adrian Newey?

I think that people are too quick to write off Mclaren. I think they will be competitive and very fast again this season. So perhaps a Mclaren win would be seen as a surprise. Not to me, but perhaps to others. I'd like them to because it would prove that unlike at Williams, at Mclaren there is life after Newey.

Reliability has not been McLaren's forte in the last few years and the loss of Ron Dennis will be felt.

Huh...... :?

I'm looking forward to this year more than ever. Ferrari's resurge...McLaren's fight, Renault's probable struggle to stay at the top...Toyota's new potential....Red Bull with Ferrari engines...Honda with full backing....Williams with Cosworth V8's and Nico Rosberg...BMW Sauber's potential....MF1 Cosworth's struggle....STR's boost up the grid and Super Aguri's unknown quantity

2006 will kick some serious donkey

Yes I meant Adrian Newey... :banghead: :bag: :o

I completely expect Mclaren to be at the front in terms of pace from Race 1. Newey designed the 2006 car, and like the '05 car, would share much the same ideas that make it fast. There's no doubt Kimi and Juan will be straight on pace too. I can't see Michelin being behind Bridgestone at Bahrain either. The only weak link which i believe Ron will be keeping his fingers crossed would be Mercedes and their V8. Mercedes had a weak reliability record compared to top engines (read Ferrari/Toyota/Renault) and has in the past couple of seasons struggling to get power...and when they do, reliability suffers. This V8 will challenge their ability to adapt.

Perhaps the biggest surprise will be Cosworth.....but not the one in the Williams. :)

Or perhaps it could be Ferrari....but not the one 'in' the Ferrari. :)

Are you thinking about a young squad and its new baby martyn? Quite unlikely I think.

Are you thinking about a young squad and its new baby martyn? Quite unlikely I think.

Sure would be a surprise though. ;)

Biggest surprise would be if Nick was slower than his team mate ;)

Joking aside, With regards to the team's i don't think there will be too many surprises, unless the V10 in the STR isn't de-restricted enough.

There you are Mr V, opening can of worms... :)

Surely, I think RBR can be a good surprise.

The v10 guys really could have an ace up their sleeve next season.

The v10 guys really could have an ace up their sleeve next season.

Could be, but I am sure that small teams would request a change in the regulations to cater for that. Changes can be effected as late as Fri or Sat before the race, so their advantage, if any, could be not that easy to keep

probably. the big guns would be quick to act if there is a big one.

Ferrari to still be off the pace.....

I think Red Bull will go well next year, but I don't think that the surprise will come in Bahrain; later in the season, when Adrian Newey's had time to sort the car, however, could be a different matter. For Bahrain, I'd plump for Scuderia Toro Rosso springing a surprise. Sure, the FIA will peg back the V10s if they're too quick, but that could only be after the first round. Bahrain could be their shot at glory.

As I stated in my opening post, Honda could surprise. They have shown hints that their V8 program is strong, and it could very well be Mr. Button's shot at glory. With all the support JB has had in the past, I'm a little surprised that others don't think likewise.

Well, they have a nice chance to change the tide. Maybe that's their turning point. But still it's open to all others to do the same, at least it happened in the past.

Ferrari to still be off the pace.....

That is not going to happen. ;)

I think Red Bull, Honda and Williams will be the surprises come Bahrain, with STR scoring a 6th place from Scott Speed on debut... :)

a 1-2 for the williams-cosworth team and a debut victory for Nico Rosberg. ( sometimes dreams can come true...)

my mail is that Ferrari will not be there abouts, but right there on the money..
here we go again?

a 1-2 for the williams-cosworth team and a debut victory for Nico Rosberg. ( sometimes dreams can come true...)
Anything's possible! Having said that, I hope it is Webber with his first win ;)

Would it be considered as a surprise if Ferrari starts '06 in the first two 2 rows and a podium finish? If for you the answer is yes, then you can add Ferrari to my list.
With the '05 tyre rules scrapped, there should be no reason why they will not be back in '06, fighting it out near the top of the grid. And as I've said in other posts, I look for a young and talented Massa to be strong and in a short time to push ageless Schumi to his limits.

Vitantonio Luizzi on pole, with Scott Speed in 2nd place.
Lots of meetings, politics, politics, and more politics, and the wheels removed from Bernie's battlebus and fitted to the STR01's to slow them down (fitted with Bandag retreads) Both cars fitted with 200Litre fuel tanks and not allowed to refuel or change wheels/tyres (even if it rains)

Luizzi wins by 2 laps, Speed in 2nd place, 10 secs behind.

Rosberg 3rd for Williams (Webber DNF - camel ran onto circuit in front of him. Does this guy's luck ever change?)

Coulthard 4th for RBR, with Raikonnen, Fisi, Bunsen, and Rubinho climbing over his rear wing in formation. Massa leading a struggling Schumacher who had a hard race trying to fend off his kid brother who was far quicker, but couldn't get past, nor could his team out-wit Ross Brawn. Trulli tangled with a charging Arrows, err I mean Aguri of Sato, and came off worse. Both retiring before first pitstops. Both BMW-Saubers went bang in formation on lap 1. Alonso had an eventful race, tangling with Montoya, spinning off, getting going again, pitting four times, and setting the fastest V8 laptime on his way to finishing 3 laps down.

There.

Now let's wait and see what really happens.

Rob.

Biggest surprise come Bahrain?
Someone might spend the time to enjoy it?

I'd be surprised if no rules(changed or previously ammended) were changed or ammended before,during or after the race.

Luizzi wins by 2 laps, Speed in 2nd place, 10 secs behind.

So, that would mean Liuzzi wins by 10 secs? ;)

Someone might spend the time to enjoy it?

All the races this year were enjoyable......even Indy....is that sad or what.Roll on March. ;)

All the races this year were enjoyable......even Indy....is that sad or what.Roll on March. ;)

Indy was the best for the tifosi ! Yeah, let's face it, it was a great season, despite all the usual whiners around.

the tifosi should be ashamed of indy

the tifosi should be ashamed of indy

We really ought to blame Michelin for that one.Ferrari had no tyre problems.

We really ought to blame Michelin for that one.Ferrari had no tyre problems.

We've had this one before.

We should also blame Firestone for not sharing any tyre wear / grip data with Michelin as well as their (Firestone's) sister company Bridgestone, as they were the only other manufacturer to have any relevant tyre data following the resurfacing, and subsequent diamond grooving of the track.

No, I'll re-phrase that, we should blame the FIA for not allowing Michelin to fly a tyre in that they were happy to run, following the new data they collected after their first runs on the new surface on Friday.

Regarding the Tifosi, if the old man was with us, and at the helm, they would not have run at Indy either, I'm sure of that.

I look foward to the new season, but with sadness to see the loss of freedom to develop engines of as many cylinders as you want, and with those stupid grooved tyres and aero rules that make close running almost impossible.

Rob.

So, that would mean Liuzzi wins by 10 secs? ;)

OK OK! A Murray-ism has been committed.....

The STR cars beat everybody else by 2 laps, with Luizzi leading team-mate Speed by 10 seconds.

We should also blame Firestone for not sharing any tyre wear / grip data with Michelin as well as their (Firestone's) sister company Bridgestone, as they were the only other manufacturer to have any relevant tyre data following the resurfacing, and subsequent diamond grooving of the track.

No, I'll re-phrase that, we should blame the FIA for not allowing Michelin to fly a tyre in that they were happy to run, following the new data they collected after their first runs on the new surface on Friday.



Do Toyota share imformation with Honda when one of their engines blows up?

Michelin didn't have any tyres suitable for the track.

Giancarlo Fisichella may surprise a few next season after his poor performance last season. Surely he will not last another season at Renault if this form continues.. may even struggle for another seat in 2007!!

Sock will be pulled up i guarantee...!! ;)

Do Toyota share imformation with Honda when one of their engines blows up?

Michelin didn't have any tyres suitable for the track.

They did - according to Michelin, the tyres that they designed for Barcelona would have withstood the extra loading. They had the tyres ready, and they could have been at Indy ready for qualifying. The FIA rules state that the tyre choice has to be made on the Friday, from the tyres that Michelin provided, and it wasn't until the early hours of Saturday that Michelin had studied the data, the tyres after Friday's running (especially the failed ones), and the checked all of that against the tyres that they had "in stock" in Europe. The negotiations were to get the FIA to allow a case of "force majeur" and let them use the "Barcelona" construction tyre. The FIA flat refused saying that Michelin should have arrived with tyres that were suitable.
Michelin, like Bridgestone had no access to Indy as it is not a nominated FIA F1 test venue, therefore they had to use the previous year's data, plus their best punt based on comparing data collected previously in the season.

Remember my earlier comments regarding : resurfacing, Firestone, and "sister company" of Bridgestone. Ooooo I'm sure that no data changed hands there...

The Indy debacle was cause by two things. 1. The FIA refusing to permit a Force Majeur situation, which it clearly was. 2. In true official document format "Page Intentionally Blank"

And we are discussing Indy because....?

because it's a new year .. and we forgot everything :) . and of course. ferrari are to blame ;)


biggest surprise in Bahrain .... Bridgestone ... or maybe not ;)

Perhaps the biggest surprise of all will be the pace in Bahrain. Logically the cars will be slower in a straight line but history has dictated that the engineers will find extra cornering speed and a way to wring out the V8's for all they are worth. Not to mention the extra grip via softer tyres. I wouldn't be surprised if the lap times (on average) are within 2 seconds of last year.

Nope the biggest surprise, to Martyn's delight, will be pouring rain for the race in Bahrain.

qualifying: :tumble:
race: :bmood:

Unfortunately, now that I've predicted it, it won't be a surprise anymore... :Shrug:

Super Aguri will actually be on the grid.

I'd like to keep this thread alive. Has anything happened this week in testing that may indicate a surprise come Bahrain? Or is still way too early?
I suppose the McLaren's tendency to test the V10, could indicate they may be behind the 8 ball (or is it the V8 ball :)) at this point. Ferrari and BMW-Sauber seem happy as does Honda-BAR.

This is what is making this one the most painfully exciting off-seasons of recent times: I simply have no idea what is going to happen.

I mean, don't get me wrong, normally there is not a lot to any notions that I may have...but there is usually a degree of accuracy to my thoughts.

This time......I have absolutely no idea.

Super Aguri to score a 1-2, with everyone else reitring from the race.

There you go.

It'd be more of a disapointment than a surprise, but both Williams' retiring from engine failures after all the hype over Cosworth's V8 experience.

Alternatively, i think Malaysia could have just as many surprises, with the new engines being tested over their full distance.

Most likely as usual all the pre season hype turning to a strangly disapointing feeling after the racing when we all realize god this has lost its magic from the old days!!

It'd be more of a disapointment than a surprise, but both Williams' retiring from engine failures after all the hype over Cosworth's V8 experience.

Alternatively, i think Malaysia could have just as many surprises, with the new engines being tested over their full distance.

I suppose some teams will take the cautious side and have the V8 slightly detuned for one or both drivers (McLaren & Renault?) while others will go for broke (Honda & Toyota?).

I suppose some teams will take the cautious side and have the V8 slightly detuned for one or both drivers (McLaren & Renault?) while others will go for broke (Honda & Toyota?).

So it's Forza STR then. ;)

And Mike's getting all heated up about it,and it's not just the engine! http://www.crash.net/news_view.asp?t=Gascoyne-angry-at-Toro-Rosso--advantage--&cid=1&id=124218

Well, he can whine all he wants. STR are just operating within the framework of the rules provided.

They can whine after Oz if they are outperformed, or something.

I'm not sure how they are able to use last years RB1?

It's the chassis of a current team,so they should not be allowed to use it.In testing i suppose they could say that they are testing for RedBull,but then you have the issue of them having too many cars on the track at once.

I think they are allowed to use RB1s if they build them themselves, but I read somewhere else (F1 Racing magazine I think) that they intend to use modified Minardi PS05s instead. Which begs the question, why aren't they testing with PS05s?

As regards early season surprises, if the FIA get their sums wrong in terms of restricting the STR V10s, or the V8 suffer from early season reliability problems then Speed and Liuzzi could easiliy pick up a few points.

Perhaps my concerns are misplaced, but I've got a hunch that the biggest surprise will be the pace (or lack thereof) of the McLarens and (to a lesser extent) the Renaults.

I know it is only testing, but I have not seen much to indicate that McLaren are as happy with things as Ferrari, Honda and Toyota - who seem to be the frontrunners at the moment.

I know it is only testing, but I have not seen much to indicate that McLaren are as happy with things as Ferrari, Honda and Toyota - who seem to be the frontrunners at the moment.

Theres been barely any testing from Williams as well, so they could be another one to look out for.

How about the pace? Times are not that far off last year and it's only January. Perhaps the largest surprise of all will be the V8's outpacing last years V10's. The tyre rule will allow for more aggressive compounds hence will play a part, but these F1 engineers never cease to amaze me.

Indeed, yesterday, in another thread, I raised the same question.

I wouldn't be desperately surprised to see it happen, although I wouldn't argue it as likely as such.

Well here we have one month to go and still Honda looks to be the surprise, in particular Button who has been up the speed chart in literally every session that he has participated in. Williams are hanging in there and BMW-Sauber are looking pretty good. Renault as expected are also strong and Ferrari seems on target as well. And then there's McLaren, possibly destined for a flop in Bahrain.

Button wins a race! Lets see how Honda testing goes at bahrain next week but if the boy is going to do it, this could be the time.

Pre-season testing is coming to a close and I'm sticking with my original thoughts that Honda and Williams will be the biggest surprises (and in that order). At least one of those cars I expect to be on the podium.

Pre-season testing is coming to a close and I'm sticking with my original thoughts that Honda and Williams will be the biggest surprises (and in that order). At least one of those cars I expect to be on the podium.

Honda wouldn't be such a surprise,but Williams and Cosworth on Bridgestones,definitely.

Well when it comes down to preparedness, Honda certainly did some serious testiong; but given their mediocre 2005 season, I would still consider a podium finish by Honda, a surprise. On the other end of the scale, it appears that McLaren need some catching up to do, although their final sessions showed some promise. I still think they will be hard pressed for a podium at Bahrain. (some would argue they may be hard pressed to finish the race)

I think that STR, MF1 and SA may provide the biggest surprises early on.

Maybe, STR just trash the opposition.



That will be a surprise.






Oh, can't wait till the new season starts... is very close now. ;)