Dry Sump Advice and Information

Where can I get information on Dry sumping, who sells the pumps etc and what
type of pump to use as I understand you get different ones different number of stages.
Perhaps someone here can reccomend to me what to get.
The engine is a 1400cc 8v SOHC Turbocharged
Its power output is around 260hp and the turbo is boosting 1.8 bar..


Thanks! :)

PS if this is in the wrong forum again, i appologise, have a hard time trying to think if it is in the right place or not :D

Have a look at www.paceproducts.co.uk they make and sell them.

And also http://www.titan-motorsport.com/

Sounds like a reasonably technical question to me old bean. Don't worry, if you stray too far from the path we'll be sure to let you know
:brm:

haha thanks guys,

Whats your take on the Titan and Pace Oil Pumps? good/bad?
Anyone using em here?

nothing wrong with them, although from a personal angle, looking at the cost/complication/weight factors, i preferr a well baffled wet sump, i've yet to come across a wet sump i couldn't baffle well enough to prevent oil surge

hehe Graham, I guess for me its more of an experiment as I would like to lower the engine down as well as move it a little to the rear. Its probably not neccesary but i would like to try something new with it.

I'm inclined to agree with Graham there. I have been told, though, that if you start doing serious endurance events (2hr+) you need more oil capacity than an average wet sump, which is where having a big dry sump tank comes in. Anyone know why you would need more oil for long periods of running a race engine?

could it be from any sump pressure sending oil to the breather/catch tank?

as I would like to lower the engine down as well as move it a little to the rear. Its probably not neccesary but i would like to try something new with it.

ok i understand that, but does the gearbox/bell housing bulk not negate any possible engine lowering benifits of dry sumping?

infact radically lowered mk3/4 escorts need the back of the engine/ gearbox raised to stopthem destroying drive shafts

Anyone know why you would need more oil for long periods of running a race engine?

assuming its got nothing to do with inadiquate oil cooling or oil consumption, i can only assume that maybe some engines are stressing to oil to the point at which it starts to breakdown towards the end of the race, therefore more oil would defer the point at which that occurred

None at all, the sump sits waay lower then the bellhousing/gearbox
I've destroyed a sump before after hitting an inanimate object on the road... not a single scratch on the gearbox :)

fair enough, although that sort of thing isnt normally an issue when circuit racing

fair enough, although that sort of thing isnt normally an issue when circuit racing
I've destroyed two sumps (one on rumble strips at Mallory last year) and every time I get Paddock Bend at Brands right I take another 1 mm off my sump in the dip (so far I have taken 2mm off in 5695 attempts). ;)

...every time I get Paddock Bend at Brands right I take another 1 mm off my sump in the dip (so far I have taken 2mm off in 5695 attempts). ;)
:rofl: Only time I've bottomed my sump there was running over the outer kerb before they brought the gravel right up to the edge. So that'll be Facemob 2 - dtype38 0 ;)

Also Graham the real serious boys fit a Tilton or similiar button clutch and a special (Tilton make them) bell housing that allows the engine to be lowered right into the weeds. I think drysumping as I recollect from my HotRod days definetely had better oil control at least on the quarter mile ovals. Funny I have just been to Think Automotive this morniging to get the areoquip and fittings for an Accusump I have had lying around that I am going to fit in the 3rd Gen camaro. Never bothered before and it has a well sorted Moroso swing door sump but thought if I am gonna try this TRC thing with Kuhmo's I may need the extra precaution of the Accusump. Then again I might be wasting my time and money!

i suppose a really well set up car on the ovals might get to the situation where the oil never gets a chance to return to the bottom of the sump.

the accusump sounds a sensable precaution, i've not yet had the chance to try my turbo up against V8 power so i cant wait have a dice with you Al, how much grunt you got?

Estimated 'Only' about 550bhp according to my engine man Clive Bond who built this one, I usually do my own but a rival Ellis Bergman kept blowing me away so I went to Clive his man and let him select the parts and gave him a free reign he reconned as Ellis insisted on selecting his own cam etc, I had at least a further 40bhp.

I never really used the car in anger on the track as I had a series of silly problems but did get them sorted and took it for a couple of track days where it has felt very quick. Actually I did get a first in class at Mallory but only cause the rest of the field fell off the track! It did not however like the feel of the rear axle trying to climb out the car under braking so I have since fitted a SCCA and IMSA sanctioned Steve Spoone Motorsports torsion bar kit which complies with regs I am sure that does not bolt to the trans but to a cross member as in the States when they race this model or later model Mustangs unless you do this mod the torque on downshift simply snaps the tailhousing of the gearbox off and mine had already came loose and the wheel hop was horrendous. I have not tried it yet as this was part of what I am doing at the moment i.e. finishing the conversion I started a year ago then got sidetracked with the Historic car rebuild.

I doubt if I will be blowing anyone into the weeds as such as the car is not much more than a modified 1987/8 Z/28 IROC built to ModProd regs although they are reconded to out corner a Ferrari of the period also I am no spring chicken meself. ;)

hmm thats big horse power, estimated or not, just gonna have to hope my lighter weight can do its stuff with the power to weight ratio, because although i'm looking for big power we sized my turbo to get the engine working nice and early in the rev range, rather than give an almighty but laggy dose of power at the top end, so it will limit power to about 450bhp, still with only 900kg to push along it should be handy assuming i've left enough weight in the rear end to have some traction.

Well a light powerful car will generally beat a heavier one, this car currently ways a tad under 1300kgs if I wanted to spend the money I recon I could get it down 1100kgs either way your 450bhp in the power/weight stakes is superior. Where I may have a bit of an advantage however and I often used to beat the Starion that wins in the ModProds when in the hands of another guy, was to entice him to just plant that throttle a little early through a bend, turbo kicks in and off he used to go. The Chevy engine also has emense torque and is very progressive and is usable from 2000rpm and will rev to 7800 as it is all steel also it is a very slippery shape and should do well on tracks like Snet, Thruxton, Brands GP or Coombe anywhere with a bit of a leg stretching straight bit in fact. Should be fun I am really looking forward to it as win or loose I don't really care as long as I enjoy it and as I have said before as long as I think in my head that I just maybe could get a class win then it is worth entering.

I will add Graham that estimate was for a dyno figure in ideal conditions. I would think once installed especially with the restricted headers I had to fit due to space etc. it will be under 500bhp.

yes but as we all know its the torque that really counts my 8v turbo shifted on only 350bhp, it was the matching 350lbft torque that really made it haul arse

Al i also have to add my new engine isn't ready yet so it might not make 450, although with twice as many valves, 200 more cc, bigger turbo and intercooler it should!

The only advantages, IMHO, are:
Larger oil volume possible.
Consequently, better oil cooling.
Avoids surge entirely.
Better control of oil on moving surfaces (less splashing about).
?? lower engine/gearbox (needs special bell usually - see below).

The cost is high!
John