Brabham BT28 [Archive] - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum

Chris Townsend

31 Mar 2004, 10:41

After digging around on BT28s at the weekend, here are the cars it seems we don't know from the build list as we've put it together so far.

1969 build:
Frank Williams [for John Kendall]
Jorgen Ellekaer [retained 1970, delivered before June 1969 so an early number. My money is on this being the car that went to Belso as it's in Denmark]
Gustaf Dieden [retained 1970 but raced under the Mennen label]
Also delivered before June 1969
Lars Ake Tejby [might be Williams car]
Colin Crang [might be Williams car or Uren] goes to Luigi Batistello in 1970
David Cole, goes to Dick Barker in 1970

1970 build
Claudio Francisci
Sigi Hoffman [might be 1969 car 2h]
Cyd Williams goes to John Coulter in 1971
David Purley, retained 1970, to Reg James, 1971-2
Petri
Sten Gunnarsson [retained early 1971]
Mike Beuttler to Jose Ferreira 1971
Gerry Birrell [Sports Motors] to Ronaldo Rossi 1971
Harry Reynolds [USA FC probably 2h 1969 car]
Barry Goulden [probably 2h 1969 car] to Sonny Eade 1971-72

Chris

Andrew Fellowes

1 Apr 2004, 00:00

Chris I will be talking to John Kendall again soon, I will see what I can find out.

Andrew

David Irwin

1 Apr 2004, 01:43

I believe Harry Reynolds had BT29-25, (formerly Tim Schenken ran at Sebring), he removed the TwinCam and FT200 and installed a Cosworth SCA and ran it in FC here in the states.

BT28-19 originally belonged to Joe Trotterin of New Jersey with a Cos. SCA.

David

Ted Walker

3 Apr 2004, 10:17

Chris I have a note in my list of Colin Crang with 28-22 But I do not have date as I thought this was in Italy in 72 fitted with an Alfa engine being raced by Luigi Battistello.

Andrew Fellowes

12 Apr 2004, 23:27

Trawling through 1969 Autosport I have;

Wayne Mitchell in Chip Gomph’s BT28, Silverstone, July 25

The 1969 BT28 chassis numbers that I have un-allocated at this stage are, 7, 10, 15, (both last 2 to Sweden) 22 & 24 (both to Italy)

Any ideas?

(thanks for the spelling check Michael)

Ted Walker

13 Apr 2004, 13:39

Andrew,nice to talk with you this morning.Nothings as simple as it seems!!! My pal has just recovered this BT28 from europe and now we have removed the "screamer" we can see that the chassis was originally built by Arch with a fixed rear crossmember as per BT30,when you said that the Harry Stiller car (17) had this mod I thought we were home and dry BUT this car survives.Were any more28s modified>????

phdm

13 Apr 2004, 18:29

Ted,
Are you talking of the ex-Georges/Bruno Legein yellow BT28 that was staying in the Stavelot museum ?

Ted Walker

13 Apr 2004, 18:37

Yes I am what can you tell me about it ?? I am trying to make contact with him or any of the previous owners P BEC or F AUBERT.

Andrew Fellowes

14 Apr 2004, 04:55

Ted, nice to catch up again, can’t help on the 28, though I am battling my though 1969 A/S and thought the following worth repeating.

Sept 25th 1969. p.5

The Sports Motors-team Brabham F3 BT28 which Tim Schenken has been campaigning this year with a great deal of success, has been sold to am unknown driver in Casablanca. In its place Tim Schenken will be at the wheel of a new works development BT28 for this weekends Cadwell Park International.
The Sports Motors BT28, the first one built –its self started life as the BT21X, when it did not have the new type bodywork. It seems next years production F3 Brabhams will be a refined version of the existing BT28.

Chris Townsend

14 Apr 2004, 17:28

The unknown guy who bought 28-1 was called Jacky Berenger.

Like Andrew I've been battling through 1969 in both Autosport and Motoring News and have come up with the following:
The big issue, it seems to me is the delivery delays that Brabham had with the BT28. Get this from MN 20th Feb. Salvatore Genovese will prepare the first BT28 to arrive in Italy for Claudio Francisci.
Now the first Italian delivery we know of is 22 which certainly has an Italian owner in 1970, but Francisci drives a BT21B all year, and the chassis before 22, Lenham Hurst's 28-21 and Stow's 28-20 are both late August deliveries. Only five 28s were delivered by the end of May.

So here are the debut dates for some key chassis

9: Thorodsson late June - so between 5 and 9 we are looking for three cars making debuts. Actually we know 6 was written off by Sutcliffe, so where are 7 and 8

The following cars debut in that month:
Williams for John Kendall
Jorgen Ellekaer
Gustaf Dieden [Sweden]
also June debuts is 11 the Erlich car for Ernst Degner, so 10 Sweden is probably the Dieden car.

July cars next !!

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2004, 01:43

Chris ,

Is BT21X = BT28-1 ????
If so to Berenger ??
Does this make the car I reported in Trinidad with Andrew Cheeks in 1972 , fitted with a twin-cam , BT28-23 , or did BT28-1 change hands again quickly and this is the Berenger car gone to Trinidad.????

Bryan.

Andrew Fellowes

15 Apr 2004, 05:24

Vincent Rivet in "the Life of the Car"
by AG Duthé :

"We warmly recommend to you the article of the Life of the Car, n°952 of the 21/9. The preparation of its Brabham BT28 of 1970, frame n°27, is described there. RPM, the company of the motor mechanic Marc Borgetto, preparer in F3 in stable ASM, are also introduced. "

Anyone near a French bookshop? I assume that this is a new book about BT28-27?:(

a lot of spare time ? Wot Me? Never:rolleyes:

Bryan Miller

15 Apr 2004, 06:23

Andrew, stop stuffing around and go and prune the roses.

Andrew Fellowes

15 Apr 2004, 06:41

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
Andrew, stop stuffing around and go and prune the roses.
Ok done them now, what next? I've still got another 3 hours to stuff around infront of this screen 'till beer o'clock.

Instead of French Books how about .... Now Now, mind above the belt please, English Adverts?;)

Andrew Fellowes

15 Apr 2004, 07:23

nah better idea, Mr Nye's book on Sir Jack has just arrived,

happy reading

Andrew
oh, oh, so very, very, nearly forgot to mention its autographed by Jack & Ron
-I'll lend it to you Bryan, one day.... Perhaps not.

Bryan Miller

26 Apr 2004, 11:28

Interestingly , I was just looking at an advert. M.R.E. inside front cover Autosport 27/1/1972.
For Sale .
1] BT28 full F3 trim.
2] BT21 F.Ford ex. Tony Hanson , fitted with BT28 bodywork.

The problem area always will be for us, the people in the U.K. who broke cars up as spares, and the other big problem is that some cars did , 1] not do much work, and 2] were used by non famous people , and/or in club events.

Breaking up of race cars over here virtually did not happen , as the cost with import duties of a new car was substantial , so the cars kept on being updated with bigger wheels , chassis stiffening , different eng. for a new formula etc. so the cars were in most cases still extant, where over your side of the pond , when it was a few years old , there was a fair chance that it was used a source of spares.

Chris Townsend

4 Aug 2004, 11:50

I have a few extra snippets on BT28s

Chassis 39 is for sale by Duke Soares 3.2.72 Autosport.

Belso's car was definitely chassis 8. The number is given in the Motoring News report of the Mallory Park F2 race in 1972 [which also gives Dick Barker's Atlantic spec car as BT28-20.
As Belso probably bought the car in Denmark I suspect that 8 was originally Jorgen Ellekaer's car, as he's the only Dane using one in 69, and the build number is about right for his first appearance.

Also, Ted gave us BT28-14 as for Bob Wolleck. Did Wolleck ever get this car? I can't find a record of him in F3 in 69 and there are cancelled BT28 orders everywhere by mid season because of the late deliveries. We know Wolleck had chassis 40 in May 70, but does 14 go elsewhere, for example to Mitchell?

Chris

Bryan Miller

5 Aug 2004, 13:23

Chris,

Can't help with your questions, however need to ask another .
BT28-20 as advised much earlier in this thread has been here since mid 1970's , masquerading with an FVA in it, did this start life as an F3 , and with whom?
Am not being picky , however is not Bob Wollek the correct spelling.?

Regards Bryan.

Chris Townsend

5 Aug 2004, 18:04

Bryan

BT28-20

Delivered late August 1969 for Mike Stow. Number given in report of F3 race at Brands in MN. Maybe driven couple of times late season by Beuttler, also driven by Barker when his Alexis drive fell through.
Retained by Stow to end 71, having also been driven by Alan Joy. Then sold via Spencer Elton, a hillclimber who also dealt a fair bit, to Barker who fitted a BDA and updated it to BT29 spec. No idea of post-Barker history, but he'd run out of money by mid 72.

Apologies, it is Wollek.

Chris

Steve Wilkinson

27 Dec 2004, 13:49

2nd Rd British F3 Championship

38 Mo Harness - BT28/Driver

benjabulle

16 Jan 2005, 17:17

Hello, Brabham owners, I added hires pics of a BT28 here : http://www.gurneyflap.com/historic.html
Unfortunately I didn't take pictures of the chassis number, all I can say is that they were taken in Dijon (France) last year.

Andrew Fellowes

16 Jan 2005, 22:07

benjabulle, thank you. Hart 416? rear oil cooler, but I like the padded seat! I wonder what the wires are to the front hub?

Chris, done -just waiting a reply and will get back to you.
Andrew

allenbrown

2 Aug 2005, 20:15

Here's a curious thing. Second round of the 1975 Aussie Gold Star and I spy Denis Lupton on the entry list with a blue 1600cc Brabham BT28. Anyone know which car this was?

http://www.oldracingcars.com/images/entrylists/entrylist-a75b.jpg

Allen

David McKinney

2 Aug 2005, 20:28

Misprint for his BT23?
Did he own it at that time?

allenbrown

2 Aug 2005, 20:37

BT23/5? According to an earlier post, Denis didn't have his BT23 until 1981. He also owned BT30/27 at one time and the timing would be better for that one but BT30 -> BT28 is quite a misprint.

Allen

David McKinney

2 Aug 2005, 22:25

OK
Thought it was worth a try...

Andrew Fellowes

2 Aug 2005, 23:02

I had a long chat with Denis the other day and he has extensive Brabham records. Looks like he might be racing again too.
He has been trying to cross reference the AM numbers, I must go and see him but he is 2,000 kms away from me!

Bryan is this BT28-20 that Allen mentions?

allenbrown

2 Aug 2005, 23:10

I did correspond with Denis in the 1980s and his records were very impressive. I'm glad to hear that he still has everything and is still involved.

Allen

Bryan Miller

3 Aug 2005, 01:30

Allen/ Andrew.

The car you are discussing is BT28-20 , from our research by 1970 with Dick Barker , then for sale with Bob Howlings Autosport 17-12-1970 chassis no. given , then to Alan Joy, Autosport 25-3-1971 , page 35 , then for sale 3-2-1972 page 53 Autosport by Elton's Motors .
Accrding to F1R ran at Mallory PK. March 1972 European F2 round against my BT35 , fitted with a BDA.
Untill that time had been a 1 litre F3 .
For sale again Autosport 11-1-1973 , page 50 , listed as ex , Stow /Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith , sale this time also by Elton's Motors.
I think purchased very soon after and came to Australia .
Was used by Denis in contemporary racing , untill later .
Denis fitted at some point an FVA and later applied for but was declined historic status as he was unable to proove that the car had run as such in period .
Believed still in this spec.

Bryan.

allenbrown

3 Aug 2005, 02:26

Thanks Bryan

Ted Walker

3 Aug 2005, 09:20

I think that Barker entered BT29-20 for the 72 F2 Mallory.Spencer had the BT28 for sale at the same time.The 29 coming from Peter Bloor as a cancelled order from Steve Matchett who went down the March route for 72.

Bryan Miller

3 Aug 2005, 09:24

Thanks Ted,
Must be a typo in F1R.
Bryan.

Chris Townsend

3 Aug 2005, 10:20

This is from my F.Atlantic car database concerning Dick Barker's F.Atlantic Brabham
I disagree with Ted that the car at Mallory was BT29-20, though Barker may own that car later in the year. It was, I think, BT28-2 at Mallory, but the confusion may stem from Barker owning both BT28-20 and BT28-2 at different times!

Brabham BT28 [2]–Ford t/c and later BDA, rebuilt to BT29/35 spec.
Delivered March 1969 for Clarke Mordaunt racing team for Mike Beuttler in F3. Used throughout the year. Sold to Jim Edwards for UK F3 in 1970. Edwards is described as appearing in ‘the Four Flags ex Beuttler BT28' [MN 25.6.70 p.9]. Sold to Mike Stow for Formula Atlantic in 1971: at the first race of the season Stow appears in ‘the hard-worked ex Beuttler 1969 F3 BT28 beautifully restored by Jim Glebe' [MN 11.3.71 p.6]. The car is updated to BT29/35 spec, or at least described as such in programmes. Sold to Dick Barker at the beginning of 1972. According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’ Since Beuttler’s 1970 BT28 was used throughout 1971 by José Ferreira in F3, this reference can only be to BT28-2. (The Beuttler/Ferreira car is probably the ex-Beuttler BT28 used by Glenn Hyatt in F4 in 1972 [A/S Sept, 1972], though this could possibly be Barker selling on the remains of BT28-2 after its big accident in the European F2 race at Crystal Palace.) What complicates the attribution of this car as BT28-2 is that MN 16.3.72 p.9 and MN 6.4.72 p.6 give its chassis number as BT28-20. BT28-20 was an ex Stow car, used in late 1969 by David Cole [debuting Crystal Palace 13.9.69], and was sold in late 1969 [MN 27.11.69 p.19] to Barker who used it in F3 in 1970. However, BT28-20 was sold to Alan Joy in 1971, who used the car in F3 throughout 1971, and the chassis number is given [A/S 25.3.71 p. 35] Joy offers the car for sale [A/S 7.10.71 p. 45] updated to this year's F3 spec; and it is then offered for sale by Spencer Elton, [A/S 2.3.72, 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy’], after MN says that Barker has bought Stow’s 1971 car. Furthermore, it would seem as though BT28-20 spent 1972 being raced in F3 by David Wadham-Smith. An ad in A/S 11.1.73 p.50 by Spencer Elton [again] gives the chassis no BT28-20 and says 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith’. The BT28-20 attribution for Barker’s car might be explained either by a misprint or mistake in note-taking (MN’s F2 reporter assuming that Barker had kept his 1970 ‘ex Stow’ car), or by Barker having kept a plate from BT28-20 and attaching it to his new car. Barker has a BT29/35 for sale A/S 5.4.73 p.64 [Ashley 2279] which may be this car, or possibly – given the damage suffered by BT28-20 at Crystal Palace – a rebuild of BT29-20, which was originally sold to Steve Matchett with BT29-19 in 1970 and which has not yet been traced elsewhere.

Bryan Miller

3 Aug 2005, 11:51

Chris,

Can't agree that a mistake was made in reference to the Mallory 1972 meeting , as I just checked the Autosport report which states ''Dick Barker in his ex Mike Stow BT29 in Atlantic trim with a Graham Eden BDA. That sort of deletes the fact that M.N made a reporting error , with the two magazines we rely on both advising ex Stow .What it could be is a reporter assuming that a BT28 when fitted with a BDA should then be called a BT29 off his own bat, when in fact is is a BT28 updated to BT29 specs.
What it may well be is chassis plate switching as you suggest.
Interestingly Autosport report BT35-8 as ''F/Atlantic man Ed Reeves entered his Dave Bowen prepared F3 BT35 chassis '', something this car has never been since leaving the factory is an F3.
What seemed prevelant at this time is pure confusion with some reporters stating a car was ''say'' a BT35 simply because it had been back to Brabhams and updated to new bag tank/body work , when in fact it was a BT28 updated with BT35 components , and correctly should have been entered and described as a BT28/35, similarly in the case of a March description should be March 712/73B/76B , but that would have made life too easy for us.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend

3 Aug 2005, 16:35

Bryan
Part of the problem is that these cars get called all things, not least by their owners.

However!
According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’

This is certainly BT28-2. It cannot be chassis 20 as that's racing F3 with Joy.
Agree the Mallory car is ex Stow but there is no evidence of Stow having anything other than BT28-2 throughout 1971 Atlantic season, and he does fit a BDA in it during 1971, at the same time changing the description to BT28/29, or BT29/35 and
even plain BT35 depending on the bodywork fitted and the mood he was in. [I now have programmes for virtually every Atlantic race in 1971 and most of the organisers result sheets] Even at the first Atlantic race in 71 - the point at which MN identifies the car as Beuttler's 69 F3 car - Stow calls it a BT29/35.

MN is very specific: ex Beuttler, ex Stow [can't be a BT29 as Beuttler never raced one, can only be one of two BT28s and Ferreira's got the other]. Ergo, Barker, BT28-2 all of 1971.

Dick Barker was dirt poor - he'd be high up the grid for the race to be the hardest
up bloke on the grid [though I remember Eric Horsfield going without food for some
days when I was doing FF] Barker certainly didn't have the wherewithal to buy first Stow's BT28 and then a BT29 from somewhere, giving him two BDA engined cars. [If he had two cars in early 1972 how come he fails to start half the Atlantic races he
enters when all he need do is switch to the spare?]

If Barker did have BT29-20, and it's a big if, it might be after he bends the BT28
very badly at Crystal Palace and instead of repairing it buys a replacement.

I believe that what might be BT29-20 has been traced to Staffordshire - Barker's home county. This might encourage us to think that the ex Matchett car had passed
through his hands. However, another Staffordshire resident with a BT29/35 in 1972-3 is Howard Rose. This might be BT29-20 or it could be the much reworked remains of Barker's BT28-2

RAP

5 Aug 2005, 21:03

Isn't there a third "Beuttler" BT28 in this story somewhere ? F1R records BT28-35 with Beuttler at Snetterton 15/3/70 and Oulton 22/8/70. Also, Autosport describes his car as "new" 8/3/70. So Beuttler's 1970 car is neither BT28-2 or BT28-20. So which was Ferreira - logically 35?

Stowe's role confuses me. He had BT28-20 is 1969 which was driven a couple of times by Beuttler so this, not 2, is surely more likely to be "Stow's ex Beuttler Brabham". Is there evidence that Stow had BT28-2? I'm confused............time for a stiff drink !

RAP

Chris Townsend

7 Aug 2005, 14:21

RAP

Yes, Ferreira's car was his new 1970 model - I didn't know what chassis number it carried.
Beuttler only drove this and chassis 2. Chassis 20 went new to Stow late 1969 then to Barker in 1970, then to Joy 1971 [or even earlier] then to Wadham Smith for 1972. When do we think Beuttler drove BT28-20? [I used to think this but then couldn't find any evidence.] Stow must have BT28-2 early 1971 for Atlantic: Ferreira has 35; Joy has 20 and Stow's car at Brands 1971 is described specifically as Beuttler's old car.

Agree it's b***** complicated and not helped by possible errors in recording
chassis nos. I've looked at this every which way for the last two years and this
seems to me the solution. The Barker car at Mallory can't be BT28-20.
It could be BT29-20, but that would mean Barker buying two different cars within a month of each other - without us having any evidence of the provenance of the second.

Chris

RAP

7 Aug 2005, 17:33

Chris
"When do we think Beuttler drove BT28-20? [I used to think this but then couldn't find any evidence]"

I think I took this from your (much) earlier post in this story, but it appeared credible as F1R recorded Cole's Crystal Palace car as BT28-2 and Beuttler was at Albi that weekend. So, if Cole was in BT28-2 Beuttler wasn't. The F1R guys used to read chassis numbers, however I would now assume that this is a mis-reading or typo for BT28-20.

RAP

Ted Walker

8 Aug 2005, 09:22

Spoke with my pal Spencer Elton today. He had 28-20 for sale at the same time as 29-20 was at Mallory park.As we have commented on before cars were often described as a "BT28-35" meaning a 28 with the new spec wider35 body,not as 28 chassis 35.

Chris Townsend

8 Aug 2005, 17:02

Richard

That 28-2 for Stow in 1969 is a maybe a bit of a problem. [I understood his car to be new at that race] One misprint I can accept, but don't want to keep assuming them.
Does F1R give BT28-20 for Stow at any point in 1969? What other evidence do we have for this car as Stow's? Or, does Beuttler get 28-20 late season and flog the well
used 28-2 to Stow?

Next question: does F1R give a chassis number for Jim Edwards's ex Beuttler BT28 in 1970?

Chris

RAP

8 Aug 2005, 20:46

Chris
F1R recordings of these two chassis are
17/5/69 Monaco BT28-2 Beuttler
3/8/69 Brands BT28-2 Beuttler
13/9/69 CP BT28-2 Cole
9/11/69 Brands BT28-2 Beuttler (tends to discount "sold" possibility)
15/3/70 Snetterton BT28-2 Edwards
21/3/71 Brands BT28-20 Joy

Just to confuse matters throughly
21/8/71 Oulton Ferreira in BT28-27 !!!!

No recordings of BT28-20 in F3 book at all.

RAP

allenbrown

8 Aug 2005, 21:20

In my experience, F1R tend to extrapolate a chassis number from actual sightingsw. So if, as an example, they see Bloggs in Chassis 21 at Oulton Park in May, they'll assign him to chassis 21 all season. If Bloggs actually crashed chassis 21 at Snetterton in June and drove chassis 32 for the rest of the season, F1R may not know that so their records will be wrong.

What we don't know is how many times in 1969 a F1R person actually saw a BT28-2 chassis plate on Beuttler's car. Adam may know - he often gave F1R this sort of information (but 1969 is probably well before his time).

Allen

Adam Ferrington

8 Aug 2005, 22:30

Allen,

Yes, you are correct in relation to F2/F3000
In my time "recording" for them (largely from 1977) I sent Paul my lists for each meeting I attended. As you say he would then assume that following appearances by a driver/car were the same as my or Duncan's observations.
I think the F3 Fact Books are slightly different. Paul didn't have enough data to attempt to "record" chassis numbers for each race. Chassis numbers only appear intermittently (certainly in the 72/73 one which I'm familiar with). I assume that if they appear intermittently that they are somebody's observations (unless they're gleaned from AU/MN) - probably usually Duncan. Of course typos can/do creep in. Duncan is/was very assiduous about recording what he saw, but occassionally he asked the team what the chassis number was, if he couldn't see it.

All this probably doesn't help to clear the "muddy pool" much, but that was the modus operandi.

RAP

9 Aug 2005, 00:07

I 100% agree with Adam's comments. The F1/F2 books do have the potential weakness cited by Allen but The F3 book only list chassis numbers infrequently (as my post indicates) and I have been told by Paul that they are actual "sightings" but of course are as open to human error as the rest of our activities!
Richard

Chris Townsend

9 Aug 2005, 11:09

I'd have to say, based on considerable copy editing experience, that the F1/F2 books are blessed with more than their fair share of typos. It's not unusual for what is 742-15 at one race to be 732-15 at the next, and the text editing is decidedly dodgy. The information gathering may have been assiduous but I've always tried to double reference entries in these books with other information.

I do, however, take Richard's point about the F3s, as there is no extrapolation - however, that doesn't rule out typos, and in the context of Stow having BT28-20 and
Edwards 28-2 in 1970, that's what the Crystal Palace entry in 1969 starts to look like.
MN describes Stow's car [run for Cole] as brand new. BTW what was Beuttler doing that weekend, where and what with?

Re Ferreira: Wasn't BT28-27 the car for Jean Blanc in 1970?

Chris

RAP

9 Aug 2005, 11:37

"MN describes Stow's car [run for Cole] as brand new BTW what was Beuttler doing that weekend, where and what with?"
Chris
Stow actually raced in a BT28 which Autosport descibes as "new".
at Silverstone on 1st Sept (Aug Monday) in a F Libre race (3rd).
Beuttler was at Albi 14th Sept , "Clarke-Mordaunt" per Autosport No special comments on car being different.
Richard

Wayne Mitchell

10 Sep 2005, 20:23

Just thought I would let those interested in BT28 cars know I have sold the above car to a Dave Bankes of Los Angeles area. It is a basket case complete with MAE and Mk series gearbox. I have owned it and never run it for approx 16 years. I believe it has run only a couple of schools since importation to US after Jupps ownership. It may have had a BMC engine at one time according to motor mounts.This allows me to proceed with the restoration of BT2 and BT9 I still have. Keep up good work. Wayne Mitchell San Diego Area, Calif.

allenbrown

14 Mar 2006, 12:39

This post marks the point at which the BT28 material in the giant Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 thread was split out to create a separate BT28 thread.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes

17 Mar 2006, 23:04

1969
BT28-1 ex BT21X
1969 Tim Schenken sold to
1970 Jacky Berenger, Casablanca
next seen 2003 restored as BT21X

BT28-2 (see #20)
1969 Mike Beuttler (used by Cole at CP 13/9/69)
1970 Jim Edwards, for F3
1971 José Ferreira in F3
1972 Glen Hyatt in F4

BT28-3
1969 Jean-Pieere Cassegrain

BT28-4
Ulf/Svensson/Conny Anderson
Note. Ulf buys additional car

BT28-5
Keith Jupp

BT28-6
Keith Jupp
Andy Sutcliffe (cart-wheeled thru Paddock)
what remains are still with with Roger Hurst

BT28-7 (see #17)
Frank Williams/John Kendle –Richard Scott
1970 Peter Hull –(maybe #17)

BT28-8
Petterson
1971-3 Tom Belso (see #35)

BT28-9
1969 July 4th new to Sverrir Thorodsson
1971 Sandy Shephard to Stan Matthews
1972 Mo Harness

BT28-10
New to Sweden Gustaf Diedan?

BT28-11
Dr Erlich

BT28-12
1969 August 8th new to Jeff Uren, took delivery & offered for sale immediately, but then used as a hire car.

BT28-14
Bob Wollek Note. may not have been delivered, went to Mitchell?

BT28-15
New to Sweden

BT28-16
1969 Bev Bond, Tony Trimmer
1971 Brian McGuire
1973 Geoff Lambert

BT28-17 up-rated to BT30 spec (see #7 maybe Peter Hull)
Harry Stiller, later Kidsley and Squires as hill climb with 750cc BD

BT28-18
1970 Alan Harvey
1971 Tony Huggett
Nothing ‘till Fed Harris 1995 then to Steve Rees then to
Gene Owen approx 1998

BT28-19
Dick James, Joe Trotter in NJ, USA

BT28-20 (see #2)
1969 Beuttler replacement car used 2 races only then to Stowe
1970 Dick Barker (rented?)
1971 Mike Stow, for F Atlantic restored by John Glebe to 29/35 spec
1971 Alan Joy F3
WARNING this is where we have a number of claims to ownership all at once!
1972 Dick Barker
1972 Wadham-Smith F3 (& then offered for sale by Spencer Elton 2/3/72-?)
1973 11th Jan. for sale by Elton Motors as being ex Stow/Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith
now with Denis Lupton Australia

BT28-21
Andy Sutcliffe, Lenham Hurst Racing to replace #6
1970 John Gillmeister and converted to BT29 spec.

BT28-22
Colin Crang? Then to Luigi Battistello with Alfa engine?

BT28-23
1969 Tim Schenken
1971 Keith Wright, for sale 3/6/1971
Sold by Straight Six to Steve Farrell for brother Chris.
now with Robert Foster, Australia

BT28-24
New to Italy

BT28-25
1969 Team AIRO/Alan McGully debuts 1970
1971 Alan Jones
1974-5 Paul Butler & Evan Clements as Atlantic/Libre

BT28-26
1970 Harry Stiller

BT28-27
1970 Jurg Dubler, Switzerland,

BT28-28
1970 France, Jean Blanc at Pau?

BT28-29

BT28-30
1970 New to Sweden (Ulf Svensson or BT28-32?)

BT28-31
1970 Rolf Grondhal

BT28-32
1970 New to Sweden
now Ian Rimmer 2005

BT28-33
1970 Torston Palm, (Troberg?) Sweden

BT28-34
Stubbs

BT28-35
1970 March 3rd Mike Beittler, at Snetterton
(Tom Belso see #8)
1973 for sale as driven by R James

BT28-36

BT28-37

BT28-38
1970 New to Italy

BT28-39
For sale by Duke Soares 3/2/72

BT28-40
1970 Bob Wolleck

BT28-41
1970 New to Italy

BT28-42
Vic Preston – East Africa

BT28-43
1970 New to Sweden

Misc.
1969 Lars Ake Tejby (maybe Kendal’s)
1969 Jorgen Ellekaer & retained into 1970, maybe Belso car
1970 David Puley had a new car
1970 Sigi Hoffman (might be a ’69 car)
Gerry Birrell to Ronalso Rossi 1971
Harry Reynolds.
Barry Goulden to Sonny Eade 1971-2
BT28-59 in Europe 2005 is a fake chassis plate

Andrew Fellowes

17 Mar 2006, 23:21

Well I hope that is a reasonable summary of what has been said so far, the only other thing I can add from Autosport is that in the issue dated August 18th Natalie Goodwin is reported as cancelling her order for two BT28's.

Andrew Fellowes

18 Mar 2006, 05:14

I think that Dick Barker sold his BT28 by the end of 1970. A search of F2Rshows just 3 results;

9-05-1970 Castle Combe Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas, 4th
17-5-1970 Cadwell Park, Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas 2nd
?-05-1970 Mallory F Libre Race, BT28 Ford Lucas, 1st

1971 and Barker is mentioned only twice,
April 12th Mallory, Alexis Mk18B, d.n.a.
August 21st Oulton F3, Alexis Mk20 d.n.a.

& here is the programme for Mallory 1972.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4823/img0543kh6fv.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0543kh6fv.jpg)

Bryan Miller

18 Mar 2006, 07:44

Andrew ,
However F1R record the chassis as BT28-20 and also at Oulton pk a few weeks later , and again 29-5-72 at the Greater London Trophy race at Crystal Palace , all 3 times as BT28-20 .
Possibly as per our phone conversation today it is BT29-20 wearing BT28-20 chassis plate , but I would not like to believe 3 seperate recordings of the chassis plate are incorrect.
Bryan.

Andrew Fellowes

19 Mar 2006, 23:16

Yes I accept that the reports are unlikely to be wrong three times, also
I think its accepted that most reporters around that time based their reports on chassis numbers not on official entry lists but on eye-balling the plate.

So its not a typo. So either he was in the 28 or the 29 carried the 28 plate.

To recap the chain of ownership for BT28-20 is, Barker '70, Joy '71, Wadham-Smith '72, for sale by Elton 11-1-73 and to Australia in '74?

A/S reports Barker buying the BT29 27-1-72
A/S has a for sale ad by Barker for his BT29 on 5-4-73

before I nip over to the BT29 thread, Joy had a cracker of a year in '71

Alan Joy BT28, 1971
21st March, 12th
2nd May, DNS
16th May, DNA
17th July, DNQ
1st Aug, DNA
15th Aug, DNS
21st Aug, DNS
22nd Aug, 11th
26th Sept, DNA
3rd Oct ,DNA
9th Oct, DNA

Andrew Fellowes

22 Mar 2006, 05:03

re 1971

MN has Mike Stow 11th March ’71 p.6 in ‘very slow F Atlantic BT28/35'
4 weeks later Joy is out in his F3 BT28 as reported by MN 22nd April
MN 6th May has Ferrera out in an F3 BT28.

That seems to be 3 different BT28’s.

Joy is almost certainly in BT28-20
Stow is unlikely to be #20 so must be BT28-2
Ferrera is unlikely to be in either of the above cars so that leaves BT28-35

Andrew Fellowes

23 Mar 2006, 04:35

Revised list for BT28-20

1969 Autosport Sept 25th for sale, 2 races only, win 1st time out. 450 pounds Loddonvale 5381

Mike Stow sells to Dick Barker

9-05-1970 Castle Combe Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas, 4th
17-5-1970 Cadwell Park, Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas 2nd
?-05-1970 Mallory F Libre Race, BT28 Ford Lucas, 1st
1970 17th Dec. for sale Bob Howlings

1971 25th March p.35 to Alan Joy
Alan Joy 1971
21st March, 12th
2nd May, DNS
16th May, DNA
17th July, DNQ
1st Aug, DNA
15th Aug, DNS
21st Aug, DNS
22nd Aug, 11th
26th Sept, DNA
3rd Oct ,DNA
9th Oct, DNA
1971 7th A/S th October Joy offers the car for sale

1972 2nd March Spencer Elton for sale as ex Stow/Barker/Joy
1972 raced by Barker
1972 raced by Wadham Smith? Once only? dates?

1973 11th Jan. for sale by Elton Motors as es Stow/Barker/Joy/ Wadham-Smith
1973 5th April Barker advertises his BT29 for sale A/S p.64
1973 19th April Barker advertises his BT28 for sale A/S
1974 Advertised for sale by Low Cost Racing?

Alan Brown

19 Apr 2006, 09:18

BT28-12 Holbay 997 was used by G Hyatt, entered by Low Cost Racing Ltd, at Great Auclum in August 1972. At the same meeting BT28-17 1598cc was used by R Shellard - this car went to Paul Squires and Phil Kidsley, possibly by 1973.

Ted Walker

19 Apr 2006, 09:33

I have 28-12 as supplied to Willments.17 was the Harry Stiller,Richard Scott,Peter Hull, Shellard,Kidsley and Squires.Now I think with Tommy Reid in Ireland

Chris Townsend

19 Apr 2006, 10:57

In an ad in A/S Sept 1972 Glenn Hyatt is selling a BT28 described as
"ex Beuttler". I'd always thought that this was Beuttler's 1970 car [35]

Having 12 as a second Beuttler car in 1969 is no bloody help at all...

Chris

Andrew Fellowes

20 Apr 2006, 00:51

1969 Guards Trophy Brands Hatch. Mike Beuttler in the Clarke-Mordaunt BT28 (chassis number...? I wonder!)
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6483/beuttler012un.th.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beuttler012un.jpg)
photo Gerald Swan

Andrew Fellowes

20 Apr 2006, 02:08

2001 Coys Auction 13th Jan. BT21X (ex Schenken etc.) listed as AM243

RAP

21 Apr 2006, 12:05

A few (hopefully helpfull) comments on Andrew's List-
1969
BT28-1 ex BT21X
1969 Tim Schenken sold to
1970 Jacky Berenger, Casablanca
next seen 2003 restored as BT21X

BT28-2 (see #20)
1969 Mike Beuttler (used by Cole at CP 13/9/69)
1970 Jim Edwards, for F3
1971 José Ferreira in F3
1972 Glen Hyatt in F4

BT28-3
1969 Jean-Pieere Cassegrain retained 1970

BT28-4
Ulf/Svensson/Conny Anderson
Note. Ulf buys additional car

BT28-5
Keith Jupp

BT28-6
Keith Jupp
Andy Sutcliffe (cart-wheeled thru Paddock)
what remains are still with with Roger Hurst

BT28-7 (see #17)
Frank Williams/John Kendle –Richard Scott I think Kendall was #17 and my guess is that #7 went to Sweden where Pettersen, Svensson, Ellakar and Dieden all have cars by June so must be early chassis with Tejby adding another by the end of June
1970 Peter Hull –(maybe #17)

BT28-8
Petterson
1971-3 Tom Belso (see #35)

BT28-9
1969 July 4th new to Sverrir Thorodsson retained 1970
1971 Sandy Shephard to Stan Matthews
1972 Mo Harness

BT28-10
New to Sweden Gustaf Diedan?

BT28-11
Dr Erlich

BT28-12
1969 August 8th new to Jeff Uren, took delivery & offered for sale immediately, but then used as a hire car.

BT28-14
Bob Wollek Note. may not have been delivered, went to Mitchell? Wollek does not appear to have raced at BT28, Mitchell's car is unidentified but debuts July so numerically this seems about right

BT28-15
New to Sweden

BT28-16
1969 Bev Bond, Tony Trimmerthis car was entered by Race Cars International and retained 1970 when also driven by McInerney
1971 Brian McGuire
1973 Geoff Lambert

BT28-17 up-rated to BT30 spec (see #7 maybe Peter Hull)
Harry Stiller, later Kidsley and Squires as hill climb with 750cc BD no trace of Stiller in a BT28 in 1969. Formula 1 Register records Kendall in #17 9 Nov 69. Kendall first appears 10 Aug so this fits numerically. In 1970 F1R records Scott in #17 22 Aug. Kendall races up to 9 Aug, presumably in #17, then Scott's own car (#26) goes to Stiller and Scott takes over team-mate Kendalls car - source Autosport 3 Sept 70

BT28-18
1970 Alan Harvey debut 17 August 69
1971 Tony Huggett
Nothing ‘till Fed Harris 1995 then to Steve Rees then to
Gene Owen approx 1998

BT28-19
Dick James, Joe Trotter in NJ, USA

BT28-20 (see #2)
1969 Beuttler replacement car used 2 races only then to Stowe
1970 Dick Barker (rented?)
1971 Mike Stow, for F Atlantic restored by John Glebe to 29/35 spec
1971 Alan Joy F3
WARNING this is where we have a number of claims to ownership all at once!
1972 Dick Barker
1972 Wadham-Smith F3 (& then offered for sale by Spencer Elton 2/3/72-?)
1973 11th Jan. for sale by Elton Motors as being ex Stow/Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith
now with Denis Lupton Australia

BT28-21
Andy Sutcliffe, Lenham Hurst Racing to replace #6
1970 John Gillmeister and converted to BT29 spec.

BT28-22
Colin Crang? debut 17 Nov 69. Autosport says Crang has new car by 13 Sept but "will not race it until his Merlyn FF is sold"Then to Luigi Battistello with Alfa engine?

BT28-23
1969 Tim Schenken
1971 Keith Wright, for sale 3/6/1971
Sold by Straight Six to Steve Farrell for brother Chris.
now with Robert Foster, Australia

BT28-24
New to Italy

BT28-25
1969 Team AIRO/Alan McGully debuts 1970 debut 9 Nov 69
1971 Alan Jones
1974-5 Paul Butler & Evan Clements as Atlantic/Libre

BT28-26
1970 Harry Stiller Originally Scotts car - see Autosport 27 Aug which records Stiller having first race with ex-Scott car - see also comments on #17

BT28-27
1970 Jurg Dubler, Switzerland,

BT28-28
1970 France, Jean Blanc at Pau?

BT28-29
Cyd Williams per F1R 27 March, also driven during year by Natalie Goodwin (4 July) and Stiller (17 July) when Williams was injured

BT28-30
1970 New to Sweden (Ulf Svensson or BT28-32?)

BT28-31
1970 Rolf Grondhal

BT28-32
1970 New to Sweden
now Ian Rimmer 2005

BT28-33
1970 Torston Palm, (Troberg?) Sweden

BT28-34
Stubbs

BT28-35
1970 March 3rd Mike Beittler, at Snetterton
(Tom Belso see #8)
1973 for sale as driven by R James

BT28-36

BT28-37

BT28-38 per F1R 22 Aug 70 David Purley's car, retained 1971 then to Reg James per Chris Townsend
1970 New to Italy

BT28-39
Gerry Birrell F1R 22 Aug 70.
1971 R Rossi per Autosport Ex Birrell
For sale by Duke Soares 3/2/72

BT28-40
1970 Bob Wolleck write off per Autosport 20 Aug 70

BT28-41
1970 New to Italy

BT28-42
Vic Preston – East Africa

BT28-43
1970 New to Sweden

Misc.
1969 Lars Ake Tejby (maybe Kendal’s)
1969 Jorgen Ellekaer & retained into 1970, maybe Belso car
1970 David Puley had a new car
1970 Sigi Hoffman (might be a ’69 car)
Gerry Birrell to Ronalso Rossi 1971
Harry Reynolds.
Barry Goulden to Sonny Eade 1971-2
BT28-59 in Europe 2005 is a fake chassis plate

James Murray

21 Apr 2006, 12:20

bt21x Wasnt this converted into a 4 wheel drive hillclimb car?

allenbrown

21 Apr 2006, 12:32

I'm not at all sure that BT21X/1 did become BT29/1. Alternatively, it's distinctly possible that the BT21 hillclimb car was not actually based on the BT21X but on another BT21 frame that had BT21X-ish mods. Either way, BT29/1 and the hillclimb BT21X were not the same car.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes

22 Apr 2006, 00:34

I'm not at all sure that BT21X/1 did become BT29/1.
BT28/1 n'est-ce pas?

Or have I lost the story line here? Which (or what) was Schenken's?

Andrew Fellowes

22 Apr 2006, 07:22

RAP many thanks,
I'll try again with 35 & 38

BT28-35
1970 March 3rd Mike Beuttler, at Snetterton
(Tom Belso see #8)
1971 Jose Ferrera

BT28-38 per F1R 22 Aug 70 David Purley's car, retained 1971 then to Reg James per Chris Townsend
add
1972 M/N 22nd March Reg James in ex Purley
1973 for sale as driven by R. James

allenbrown

22 Apr 2006, 10:30

Sorry Andrew, I did mean BT28, not BT29. Got FBs on the brain...

Andrew Fellowes

23 Apr 2006, 00:27

Sorry Andrew, I did mean BT28, not BT29. Got FBs on the brain...
No problem, so to recap,

a BT21 is turned into the first BT28 for Schenks, who bends it, it is then repaired and reverts to being a BT21, and at the same time has a 4WD system added? I have always just accepted that, but as a rather odd saga. (or have I got the sequence wrong?)

Are you saying there are two different cars lurking within this loop?

allenbrown

23 Apr 2006, 00:47

I don't recognise your recap at all. My personal suspicion is that they are totally different cars.

Allen

Ted Walker

23 Apr 2006, 09:18

I agree with Allen. The BT21 that appeared at Brands with wings on stalks front and back was dubbed BT21x. The Blankstone Brabham Quattro built up for him by Chas Beattie was called aBT21X but it was not an official "X" car as the 30X 35X and 36X cars.

Andrew Fellowes

24 Apr 2006, 04:23

Quote from Autosport Sept.'69

"The Sports Motors BT28, the first one built –its self started life as the BT21X, when it did not have the new type bodywork. It seems next years production F3 Brabhams will be a refined version of the existing BT28."

The implies there was only one which (he said, grasping at straws in a mammoth effort to avoid total brain failure) is perhaps where I have gone wrong.
At the minimum we have three cars.

BT21X is used to produce BT28-1. Driven by Schenken then sold to Jacky Berenger, late 1969. This car has now disappeared.

BT28-23 Driven by Schenken now with Robert Foster, NSW.

BT21X-Q, (the auction house junkie) has absolutely nothing to do with BT28's, the only connection being that Schenken drove both BT21X's at some stage. It also was not an official X.

1. Did the first 21X listed above cease to exist?
2. When did Schenken drive the BT21 that became the BT21X-Q?
:faint:

Andrew Fellowes

24 Apr 2006, 05:34

t –its self started life as the BT21X, when it did not have the new type bodywork.

Sounds as though its life as an X was very short so,

Question 3. Did this BT21X ever see active service as an X?

Question 4. Does the Quattro have the chassis plate BT21X-1?

RAP

24 Apr 2006, 09:21

"
1. Did the first 21X listed above cease to exist?
2. When did Schenken drive the BT21 that became the BT21X-Q?
:faint:

Schenken drove a Brabham entered by Sports Motors at the Boxing Day 1968 Brands meeting. I annotated my programme that day with BT21X. At thr previous meeting (24 November) he was still driving a Chevron.
Richard

Ted Walker

24 Apr 2006, 09:51

Andrew. The quattro last time I saw it had no plate all I know is the AM No PS Ive started printing so bring lots of money in July !!!!

allenbrown

24 Apr 2006, 09:53

Ted

Is the AM number consistent with it being a very late BT21?

Allen

Ted Walker

24 Apr 2006, 17:42

Allen. Yes its in the last 30 or so Nos

Andrew Fellowes

25 Apr 2006, 00:44

Ive started printing so bring lots of money in July !!!!
Excellent!!!!!!

RAP
I've just had another look at Stefan Örnerdal site, I missed it the last time I looked as I had assumed that Schenken drove a Chevron all year. I see he lists it as a BT28, I imagine he's done that with the benefit of hindsight, but I wonder if its worth pointing that out to him?

Was it a cold day? I have a hard time understanding racing in a UK winter!

RAP

25 Apr 2006, 10:17

I've just had another look at Stefan Örnerdal site, I missed it the last time I looked as I had assumed that Schenken drove a Chevron all year. I see he lists it as a BT28, I imagine he's done that with the benefit of hindsight, but I wonder if its worth pointing that out to him

Stefan's material seems to be a straight copy of the Formula 1 Register Fact Book. which also says BT28. I imagine Duncan Rabagliati & Paul Sheldon applied hindsight is using the BT28 designation. Autosport's report says "Tim Schenken, giving the BT21X, or BT28 without bodywork, its first outing"

Was it a cold day? I have a hard time understanding racing in a UK winter!
Yes ! Again Autosport "Freezing icy weather was the scene for the BRSCC Christmas meeting at Brands". Mind you, this never stopped the crowds - a photo shows spectators lining the fence 2 or 3 deep on the entrance to Druids. One of the things one looked forward to at this meeting were new cars and car/driver combinations. Pity they no longer hold the meeting - I suppose we have all got soft!
RAP

Steve Wilkinson

25 Apr 2006, 11:15

Stefan's material seems to be a straight copy of the Formula 1 Register Fact Book. which also says BT28. I imagine Duncan Rabagliati & Paul Sheldon applied hindsight is using the BT28 designation. Autosport's report says "Tim Schenken, giving the BT21X, or BT28 without bodywork, its first outing"

I think what happened with the Black Books was that if there was no researcher present at a race they assumed the drivers were all in the same cars and did a cut and paste job! At least that appears to be the case with the British Hillclimb book.

:error:

Ted Walker

26 Apr 2006, 09:25

The 21X had 23 c body on at Brands.

allenbrown

26 Apr 2006, 09:45

I think what happened with the Black Books was that if there was no researcher present at a race they assumed the drivers were all in the same cars and did a cut and paste job! At least that appears to be the case with the British Hillclimb book.

:error:So when are you going to compile all the hill climb records Steve? :)

Steve Wilkinson

26 Apr 2006, 12:36

So when are you going to compile all the hill climb records Steve? :)

When I get the British Sprint Championship records 100% up to date!

:tumble:

allenbrown

26 Apr 2006, 13:35

Oh no! A completer-finisher.

I much prefer starting lots of jobs and leaving them half-finished. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me :)

Steve Wilkinson

26 Apr 2006, 13:59

Oh no! A completer-finisher.

I much prefer starting lots of jobs and leaving them half-finished. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me :)

Well, she should know! :p

I have actually started BUT it is very low-key. I will be looking for an existing site to host the database rather than set up a new one then anyone can access it through an established path.

:fishing:

allenbrown

26 Apr 2006, 14:04

I will be looking for an existing site to host the database rather than set up a new one then anyone can access it through an established path.

:fishing:When do we start?

Fingers

26 Apr 2006, 23:14

Reading this thread has been fascinating for me having just bought Brabham BT 28 chassis number 04 from a very nice old gentleman in Whiltley Bay. So now madly working on its restoration as it was in good nick but tatty.
Any information about this car would be most welcome. We are preparing it to run European F2 regs with its current BDA engine but may return it to F3 with a Lotus engine later. Histort any related links and names of books for reference etc all very welcome.

Richard Davies in Gloucestershire email rdavies@rdprandc.com

Andrew Fellowes

26 Apr 2006, 23:23

Hi Fingers, a warm welcome.

#4 seems to be one I have very little on. Did you get any history with the car when you got it?
All I have is Ulf Svensson then to Conny Anderson.

John Blades Racing was Whitley Bay too I think. (& Phil Barak)

allenbrown

27 Apr 2006, 09:48

Welcome Richard

What history have you been given for your car? Any idea how long it's been in the UK?

Allen

James Murray

27 Apr 2006, 12:22

Sounds like the Jowsey 'mobile!! Prior to Jowsey's it was owned by Steve Worrad. He bought it in Sweden (thats what he told me) probably around 99/2000.

I stand corrected if its not this car but would be a surprised if there were 2 BDA propelled BT28's from Whitley Bay!!

allenbrown

27 Apr 2006, 12:38

:doh: Oops - I didn't notice that the thread had gone over a page and that Andrew had already asked the same question.

Fingers

27 Apr 2006, 20:54

Hi to everyone and thank you for the polite welcome.

Yes it is definitely the Jowsey car; chassis 04. Owned by Mr Jowsey senior but driven by Jowsey junior as we understand it.

We think ULf Svennson originally ran the car with a 1000 cc screamer in Sweden in 1969 and continued with it into 1970. We have no idea when or who put the BDA in.

Does anyone know whether Mr Svennson is still alive and contactable - we thought, if he was, it would be good to get in touch. I saw in a book I bought recently (The Screamer Era) that he became a race car importer in Sweden; after retiring from racing I presume.

The car had a temporary exemption (2 years) to run in HSCC Formula 3 in UK with the BDA but this has expired now and despite a begging letter equesting a short continuation of the exemption it is not to be renewed, so we think we will run it for the moment in the Historic Formula 2 events that run on some of the same programmes as the HSCC races.

Richardsons built the engine and they are tracing the serial number so we know who bought it and when; but that wont necessarily mean that it went straight into the 28.

We didn't get any history at all with the car but Mr Jowsey senior has promised to hunt out what he can find and send it on to us.

The HSCC have also said they will let us have what they can from their records and we are in touch with Ted Walker who lives close to the workshop so he may have some info.

We have started to strip the body panels which appear to be the original ones, they have layer upon layer of paint on them and it is difficult to know what the first colour scheme was - looks like it might have been a rather horrible light blue!

Our plan at the moment is to repaint it in the Brabham colour scheme of BRG and gold; the BT20 in the May edition of Motor Sport looks stunning like that.

The chassis is the original, with the Arch Motors designation stamped into one of the rear tube ends and looks like it was originally intended to have the water sysyem running inside the chassis rails. It still has all the spurs to take the pipe connections - took us ages to work out what they were.

More news if anyone is interested as we discover things.

Thanks for the relpies in the meantime.

Richard

John Turner

28 Apr 2006, 00:51

More news if anyone is interested as we discover things.

Richard, we are interested in any new info. you discover, so please keep it coming!

Fingers

2 May 2006, 15:28

So we are down to the bare chassis and the car, which was looking vaguely OK, is now a pile of bits. The good news is that I have the Arch Motors chassis number now. The number is stamped on a plate at the left hand rear chassis end and the numbers are as follows AM 69/11 and then it looks like it might be the letters DJI or DJL. We think these might be the initials of the chap who actually made this chssis at Arch Motors. What do you chaps think?

Richard Davies

John Turner

8 May 2006, 13:46

Richard Urwin's BT28 at Brands Hatch Superprix, 6 May 2006

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1183/brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may2.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may2.jpg)

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3311/brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may3.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandshatchhsccsuperprix67may3.jpg)

Andrew Fellowes

9 May 2006, 00:09

Thank you John for the wonderful photos. Chassis number? -I dont think I have been paying attention again!

Alan Brown

10 May 2006, 09:14

Richard Urwin's car carries the plate BT28-31 (1970) - Holbay rocker cover.

John Turner

11 May 2006, 09:31

Noting the dicussion re the ex Jowsey car, I'm assuming this is it. Rather dark photo, I'm afraid but this was taken at last year's Brands Superprix, 24 July 2005:-
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2271/brandshatchhistoricsuperprix23.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brandshatchhistoricsuperprix23.jpg)

Andrew Fellowes

12 May 2006, 09:03

BT28-42
Vic Preston – East Africa
nothing more till
200? Chris Ball (FORCE)

allenbrown

18 May 2006, 21:20

A few (hopefully helpfull) comments on Andrew's List-
BT28-7 (see #17)
Frank Williams/John Kendle –Richard Scott I think Kendall was #17 and my guess is that #7 went to Sweden where Pettersen, Svensson, Ellakar and Dieden all have cars by June so must be early chassis with Tejby adding another by the end of June
1970 Peter Hull –(maybe #17)

BT28-17 up-rated to BT30 spec (see #7 maybe Peter Hull)
Harry Stiller, later Kidsley and Squires as hill climb with 750cc BD no trace of Stiller in a BT28 in 1969. Formula 1 Register records Kendall in #17 9 Nov 69. Kendall first appears 10 Aug so this fits numerically. In 1970 F1R records Scott in #17 22 Aug. Kendall races up to 9 Aug, presumably in #17, then Scott's own car (#26) goes to Stiller and Scott takes over team-mate Kendalls car - source Autosport 3 Sept 70I can add a little to this BT28/7 or BT28/17 debate. Kendall wins a libre race at Castle Comble on Saturday 12 July 1969 in what Autosport call his "new F3 Brabham-Holbay BT28". The very next day he won another libre at Brands (Autosport 18 Jul 1969 pp33, 36)

Allen

allenbrown

18 May 2006, 22:30

... and he was out at Brands Sunday 27 July, finishing third in a libre.

allenbrown

19 May 2006, 10:11

BT28-22
Colin Crang? debut 17 Nov 69. Autosport says Crang has new car by 13 Sept but "will not race it until his Merlyn FF is sold"Then to Luigi Battistello with Alfa engine?If it only debuted on 17 Nov then it didn't last long as it was "totalled" in testing at Brands on Saturday 22 Nov (Autosport 27 Nov 1969 p18).

It's amazing what you find in libre reports.

As well as Crang, Kendall was a DNA as his BT28 "still doesn't run properly".

Allen

IANHEB

19 May 2006, 12:41

Andrew
BT28-42,East Africa.
I can confirm that a chassis/car was located in Kenya in 2000 and was sent to the UK.
Ian

allenbrown

19 May 2006, 13:17

An addition to BT28-20's history in red below:

Revised list for BT28-20

1969 Autosport Sept 25th for sale, 2 races only, win 1st time out. 450 pounds Loddonvale 5381

Mike Stow sells to Dick Barker

Dick Barker Mallory Boxing Day libre in "his ex-Mike Stowe Brabham BT28". There's a picture of it and the caption says it's "his first outing in his new F3 Brabham BT28".

9-05-1970 Castle Combe Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas, 4th
17-5-1970 Cadwell Park, Lombank Trophy, BT28 Ford Lucas 2nd
?-05-1970 Mallory F Libre Race, BT28 Ford Lucas, 1st
1970 17th Dec. for sale Bob Howlings

1971 25th March p.35 to Alan Joy
Alan Joy 1971
21st March, 12th
2nd May, DNS
16th May, DNA
17th July, DNQ
1st Aug, DNA
15th Aug, DNS
21st Aug, DNS
22nd Aug, 11th
26th Sept, DNA
3rd Oct ,DNA
9th Oct, DNA
1971 7th A/S th October Joy offers the car for sale

1972 2nd March Spencer Elton for sale as ex Stow/Barker/Joy
1972 raced by Barker
1972 raced by Wadham Smith? Once only? dates?

1973 11th Jan. for sale by Elton Motors as es Stow/Barker/Joy/ Wadham-Smith
1973 5th April Barker advertises his BT29 for sale A/S p.64
1973 19th April Barker advertises his BT28 for sale A/S
1974 Advertised for sale by Low Cost Racing?

Andrew Fellowes

19 May 2006, 22:55

It's amazing what you find in libre reports.

I'll second that, but would you agree the irritation with Brabhams is that they sometimes get listed by what they have been uprated to.:ouch:

allenbrown

20 May 2006, 10:41

Sometimes, yes, but most of the time the Autosport journalists appear to do their best to tell you what it really is.

John Turner

22 May 2006, 16:53

BT28-42 of Chris Ball (which, as I have been advised, is entered in historic races as a BT29 - see also BT29 thread) in the pit garage at Silverstone on 21 May 2006:-
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/1155/silverstonehscc40th21may200605.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc40th21may200605.jpg)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1155/silverstonehscc40th21may200605.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc40th21may200605.jpg)

Andrew Fellowes

23 Oct 2006, 05:16

After posting on the BT35 thread I noticed the same Prescott results sheet for April 1980 has P. Kidsley and P. Squires out with their Brabham BT28 Cosworth 1100cc, no. 128 and 128a, Kidsley taking 2nd in class 0.04 behind R Ward's Chevron B9/15. (ref. Denis Lupton)

Is this #12 or #17?

Ted Walker

23 Oct 2006, 09:11

Its 17 Andrew. I think its now owned by Tommy Reid in Ireland.

John Turner

23 Oct 2006, 11:08

BT28 - 32 (Engine no. 2733 60 15A) seen for sale at Silverstone, 21 October:-

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6647/silverstonehscc21october20061001bke0.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc21october20061001bke0.jpg)

Wayne Mitchell

3 Nov 2006, 03:38

For the pundits! I purchased BT28-14 new through Motor Racing Enterprises, Bourne end in May 1969. I ran it all year until I left UK for Calif and it went with me in addition to 4 BT-29's which I subsequently sold to Jay Jamison and others. The 28 was converted with the addition of a Vegantune Fuel Injected engine to F/B with the appropriate Front Brake caliper and rotor change. The car was sold to a Jack Brabban, no relation and not a spelling error in Calif where he ran it a few times in California Regional and National SCCA races. It has not been seen sincve and I look for it always.
And the BT28-5. As I was looking for my 28 comes the 28 of Keith Jupp which I ran with in UK a few years earlier. I did a deal and purchased it.
The recorded owners of this car are:
Imported to USA by Joe Grimaldi
Sold to Joe DeAso 1971, used 2 schools
Sold to Anthony Barbose in mid 70's and never run
Sold to Walt Hagstrom, Dealer
Sold to Dave Lewis, Never run
Sold to Wayne Mitchell, stored in a Brabham friendly enviroment with Bt-21's and a BT9 all around. Currently returned from sale to Dave Bankes as trade on a more desireable BT-21.
And so there you have it and it's the truth, not conjecture.
Cheers Y'all, Wayne Mitchell. BT2, BT9, BT21 (2), BT 28

Andrew Fellowes

3 Nov 2006, 03:53

Fantastic stuff, some more gaps filled.

My best wishes go with you in finding #14, I hope you succeed.

allenbrown

3 Nov 2006, 08:55

Thanks very much Wayne!

Anuauto

3 Nov 2006, 23:16

Re: the car raced in Guyana in 1972 by Jimmy Fuller.
This thread seems to believe it was BT28-8 (converted to BT35 spec) and in Tom Belso's actual ownership at the time? I am in Antigua next month and may be asked to bring back to UK (for conversion to Video/DVD) some amateur film taken of this car racing in Guyana. I saw the film two years ago and there are some close ups shot in the paddock (but not close enough to see the chassis number!). I have a contact there who could pass questions to Jimmy Fuller or possibly put me in touch with him but I am not sure what exactly needs to be asked to get any more clarification. Maybe all I can get is confirmation that it was hired from Belso, went out on the BOAC flight with other cars and went back to UK afterwards? Any suggestions (I am mainly into saloon cars and am not a single seater chassis expert)? (and should I also ask about the BT38(C?) driven by Fuller in UK F3 in 1973?)

allenbrown

4 Nov 2006, 11:20

Don't we have two other Brabhams that went to that area at one point? Maybe you could ask about them too. Can anyone remind me which ones they were?

Allen

Andrew Fellowes

4 Nov 2006, 22:16

BT30-12 was one, 1974 Chris Sherret, then I have a gap 'till Bobby Howlings in '86 (source not recorded) and then Mike Freeman. Sorry, bit wafty!

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes

21 Nov 2006, 01:40

Cars that went to the Caribbean,
BT21, BT28, BT30, BT35.

Anuauto if you have time & can sort the Schenken-Belso story that would be great. I envy your holiday,

Could this be possible, from ZHAUST forum,
BT28-23
1971 for sale by Keith Wright
bought by Andrew Cheeks, tc installed & sent to Trinidad. Sold to Ralph 'Bizzy' Williams, 1975 Bizzy sold to Jamaica

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes

22 Nov 2006, 05:42

My very sincere thanks to the Mike (and Martin) Atwell,

In 1972, Andrew Cheekes from Trinidad bought the ex Tim Schenken BT28 from Howlings in the UK and brought it to Trinidad, (it was fitted with a
Vegantune 1600cc twin cam) then Cheekes brought it to Guyana for the
International meeting in November where he raced against the BT35 of Jim
Fuller who was from Antigua and Dave Brodie former British Saloon car
champion in a Chevron B8 with a BMW 2000 engine. This BT28 was eventually
bought by Bizzy Williams who modified it in terms of wings and wheels and I
converted the gearbox to a 5 speed. Bizzy set the track record in Barbados
after the mods and then sold it to Donny Lawson in Jamaica. I also drove
this car in one race in Jamaica.

Andrew Fellowes

23 Nov 2006, 04:40

....and when Bizzy sold BT28-23 he was paid in Jamaican dollars, at time of tight restrictions it wasn't possible to change them into Barbados dollars so his wife came up with a plan to buy fuel for a friend with an aeroplane.
The friend got busted.
So then Bizzy ended up using the dollars to wallpaper his bar.

By the way, Bizzy still holds the Bushy Park lap record with this car!

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 15:04

1969
BT28-1 ex BT21X
1969 Tim Schenken

BT28-2 (see #20)
1969 Mike Beuttler (used by Cole at CP 13/9/69)

BT28-3
1969 Jean-Pieere Cassegrain

BT28-4
Ulf/Svensson/Conny Anderson
Note. Ulf buys additional car

BT28-5
Keith Jupp

BT28-6
Keith Jupp
I noticed that Autosport 16 May 1969 p5 says that "Five BT28s have so far been delivered to Schenken, Beuttler, Cassegrain, Svensson and Jupp". Is this how we arrived at the chassis numbers for the above cars? I notice we have both BT28-5 and BT28-6 down to Jupp. Did he have two cars or could something be out of step?

Allen

Chris Townsend

1 Jan 2007, 17:13

Allen

We arrived at them in the following ways
1: Schenken's car first to appear by about a month, described by AS as 'the first one built' and there must be an F1R observation out there somewhere

2: Second car to appear. Observed as 28-2 three times by F1R in 1969 in Beuttler's hands. The observation of 28-2 for Cole probably a misprint of 28-20 as that is described in press as a new car on that occasion

3: I think this is filling in on my part

4: Chassis number given by MN

5: Chassis number given by Wayne Mitchell

6: Not Jupp. According to Ted and the late Roger Hurst this car delivered for Andy Sutcliffe and terminated in a cartwheel at Paddock to be replaced by chassis 21. Bits incorporated into Lenham GT. By my reckoning this car had to be delivered late May early June 69, in which case Sutcliffe's crash must be in testing, as he seems only to appear in races with the ex Hickman BT21 until August BH, when he's out at Brands in what is described as a new car by MN. [So presume chassis 21 as that would be bang on for production date]. He still hadn't quite worked Paddock out as he proceeded to do a job on this chassis there as well. Poor old Roger eventually straightened that one out for John Gillmeister.

Chris

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 17:20

In that case, the Autosport story reinforces the identity of BT28-3 as Cassegrain's car.

By the way, Happy New Year!

Allen

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 17:32

BT28-9
1969 July 4th new to Sverrir Thorodsson
1971 Sandy Shephard to Stan Matthews
1972 Mo HarnessI'm just writing a Brabham summary page at the moment so darting all over the place. John Blanden's Historic Racing Cars in Australia 2nd edition says that the BT31 was built using "Formula 3 chassis BT28-9" and quotes Australian Autosportsman May 1969 for a full story. I wonder if that was a chassis of type BT28-9 - i.e. part BT28 and part BT29, rather than BT28 chassis no 9.

Allen

RAP

1 Jan 2007, 18:19

F1R has the following at Monaco 17.05.69
28-1 Schenken
28-2 Beuttler
28-3 Cassegrain
28-6 Ingvar Petterson
The latter obviously does not tie up with the Sutcliffe story unless the car was on loan at Monaco. Autosport confiems Petterson as a BT28. It would be useful to know the date of the Paddock crash.
RAP

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 18:26

I doubt John, Duncan or Paul would have been at Monaco so these ids may be second-hand or derived. Not that their derivations are any less educated than ours...

RAP

1 Jan 2007, 19:10

Why not ? I was at Monaco a couple of years earlier - shame I didn't collect numbers! Anyway, more to the point, they list numbers for 24 of the 65 entries, ranging across BT21, Bt28, Tecno, Matra, Merlyn, CHevron and Titan. In the F3 Fact Books, unlike the GP ones, there does not seem to be any extraopolation of numbers from one meeting to another so I think we should assume someone collected these numbers "on the day". Of course this doesn't rule out error in either reading the chassis plate or later typos.

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 19:22

If they have that many numbers, someone must have been there. Maybe Yves de la Gorce.

Chris Townsend

1 Jan 2007, 21:08

I think that at Monaco Petersson was using Svensson's car. Because the BT28 was so late being delivered a lot of Scandinavian drivers were missing out on international entries, so Svensson did the gentlemanly thing and loaned out his car.

However, I'd go with RAP on the F3 books being based on observation with little or no extrapolation. [Just the occasional typo in printing...]
So, it might be that this really was chassis 6. Despite Ted giving us that number as the first Sutcliffe car, and Roger confirming this, I did wonder if Roger was in fact confusing the fate of that car with the team's BT21 and the later BT28. Looking at my notes for 1969 it seems as though Sutcliffe first demollished the BT21 at Paddock and then had a go in August with the new car. Three write offs at Paddock in one season (to allow for BT28-6) seems a little excessive...

RAP
Any chance of seeing those other numbers? Especially for the Tecnos and Brabham BT21/21Bs

Chris

allenbrown

1 Jan 2007, 21:29

However, I'd go with RAP on the F3 books being based on observation with little or no extrapolation. Completely agree. I'd just never seen any overseas observations before.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes

1 Jan 2007, 22:13

Guards Trophy 1st September, 1969

Andy Sutcliffe, BT28
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6366/sutcliffe01ym5.th.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sutcliffe01ym5.jpg)
photo Gerald Swan

I have Ingvar Petterson in (or Petersson?) #8 but that may simply because I have the Hurst car as #6 as per earlier postings here.

Chris Townsend

1 Jan 2007, 22:57

By September Sutcliffe could well have been using chassis 21.
I don't think we really worked out a chassis number for Petersson, just one of a number of problematic Scandinavians...
However, I think that chassis 8 probably began life with Jorgen Ellekaer, partly because he's the only Dane with a BT28, and we know that chassis 8 then went to Tom Belso.

Isn't Andrew Kitson in occasional touch with Tom? He might remember who he bought his F3/Atlantic car from

Chris

Chris Townsend

1 Jan 2007, 22:58

Apologies for massive repetition of message, problem with key!!

John, please can you clean up the mess...

Chris

Andrew Fellowes

1 Jan 2007, 23:44

A quick look at Andy Sutcliffe's results for 1969 show,

May 4th, 17th & 25th Merlyn Mk10

August 17th B-H, Brabham BT21B

Sept 1st, 13th, 14th & 29th Brabham BT28

That certainly looks like he only drove BT28-21, delivered late August.

Andrew Fellowes

2 Jan 2007, 22:07

Couple more bits,

1969 A/S July 25th p.6 Andy Sutcliffe has replaced his Merlyn Mk10 with the ex Roger Hickman BT21 for the rest of the season

1969 A/S August 29th p.5 Andy Sutcliffe is taking delivery of a brand new BT28 ....for Brands Hatch on Sept.1st

Gary Jarlson

6 Jan 2007, 01:23

I've just found this site and I'm stunned by the amount of effort that has gone into establishing a lineage of what I had all buit presumed to be a long forgotten Brabham model.

As to BT28-19, here is what I can add:

Firstly, I was told in 1974 by Harry Reynolds and another driver at the SCCA Runoffs at Road Atlanta that my car (28-19) was one of two (the second was destroyed in a crash on the East Coast) that had been specifically built (or rebuilt?) by MRD to run in the 1969/70 L&M Continental Series (FA-FB-FC)her in the U.S. It came with a 1098cc fuel-injected SCC and an MK 5-speed. The wheels were 10s and 12s. Note: I have a picture of me running the car at Sears Point. I will forward a copy as soon as I can figure what's up with my scanner.

I first saw the car in 1972. It was being run in SCCA club racing here on the West Coast by a fellow of of San Diego. (Wayne Mitchell, do remember his name?) The car was sold to Rex Twaits of Pomona. I don't recall seeing it run again until I picked it up from Twaits at Willow Springs in April, 1974, where it had been driven by some-time pro Skeeter McKitterick. The car with a spare set of 8s and 10s. The engine in the car was serial number A105 and spare was A106.

I raced in '74-'76 on the West Coast. Then I parked it for a period of time until I could afford one of the new 1100cc BDJ motors built by Chuck Willis. After that, thanks to the free-spending ways a my significant other, I raced it only intermittently. A one point, I also rebodied the car with 1973 March panels.

In 1982, I diassembled the car with the intent of restoring to it original configuration. Wayne Mitchell was interested in acquiring it, but that transaction never came about. Finally in 1985, I sold it, as a basket case with no motor, to a fellow from Novato, Calif. I don't remember his name, but he was director of TV commercials and had several older, small-bore Brabhams at his house. His intent was to restore it and I assisted him in trying to run down the original engines, which I had sold off to a Northern California club racer. He never completed to project.

The next I heard of the car was when I was contacted in 1986, I believe, by a Jerry Friedrichs (sp) of Camarillo, Calif. He had purchased the car was restoring it. When I visited him, the car was very nearly completed, need only paint and some final touches. I showed him how the FI system was plumbed and some other things I knew about the car. In those 20 years since then, I have lost track of the car. I have not been able to locate Friedrichs (he was a farmer) and none of the people running Brabhams at vintage events on the West Coast has ever seen the car. Nor have I seen any mention of it in race reports from vintage events elsewhere in the U.S.

An interesting aside: I took the car to Sears Point right after I bought it to run an SCCA national. There were only two other cars in that class that showed up and both suffered mechanical maladies that kept them from racing. My mechanic, Jim Hall, convinced me that there was no sense in running if we wouldn't get points, since I would be the only car in the class. In late Saturday practice, Pete Halsmer (later a regualr Indy car driver) went off at Turn 1 in his BT29 and tore the right rear corner off. Pete was ready to home then and there, but Jim Hall looked at his car and said we'd get him in the race. My car was already loaded in the transporter, but we just jacked up the back and took off the entire right rear suspension--halfshaft, radius rods, A-arms and all and bolted on Halsmer's car. I recall he finished second.

Andrew Fellowes

6 Jan 2007, 05:28

allenbrown

6 Jan 2007, 11:22

Dick James lived in Novato. He bought quite a bit of stuff in the late 1980s so fits Gary's description. I haven't spoken to him since August 1991

RAP

6 Jan 2007, 12:20

Any chance of seeing those other numbers? Especially for the Tecnos and Brabham BT21/21Bs

As requested here is the chassis numbers given in the F1R Fact Book for Monaco F3 17.05.69
31 Ernst Maring Ahrens RT Tecno TOO 344
33 Schenken BT28-1
34 J-M Juncadella Esc Montjuich BT21-17
35 Herve Bayard Matra MS5 -08
36 Max Bonnin MS5-06
37 Cassegrain BT28-3
38 P Champin Motor Racing Enterprises Merlyn Mk14 162-FF-69 (yes FF – typo?)
43 JP Jaussaud Ec Tecno France TOO 342
46 R Ligonnet P Watson Org Chevron B15 B15-69-3
53 M Beckwith M Spence Ltd Lotus 59 59-F3-1
54 Beuttler BT28-2
55 H Ganley Chevron B15-69-9
57 Natalie Goodwin Goodwin Rcg Brabham BT21-2
64 Cyd Williams Goodwin Rcg BT21B-14 (but shown in entry list in book as BT21. not 21B. However, in the context of my research for my book “A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace”, Duncan Rabagliati confirmed that Williams was racing BT21B-14 at this time.)
71 Pino Babbini Italcorse Tecno TOO 260
79 Edvard Jacobsson BT21B-26 (but shown in entry list in book as BT21. not 21B)
82 Ingvar Pettersson Cabina Racing BT28-6
83 Ronnie Peterson Tecno TOO 334
86 R Wisell Chevron B15-69-1
88 B Baur Midland Rcg Tecno TOO364
95 R Salomon Midland Rcg Tecno TOO695
97 M Campbell Titan 68-318
98 C Haworth Tobler Rcg Tecno TOO248
99 P de Merritt Tecno Tobler Rcg TOO 246

Hope I’m not breaching copyright.. perhaps I should mention that although the Fact Books are shown as out of print on their web site, I believe that the Formula One Register will print a loose-leave copy to order. I don’t know the charge but an e mail would find out
enquiries@formulaoneregister.com
I would have thought these books were a “must” for F3 researchers.

RAP

allenbrown

6 Jan 2007, 12:51

You're right, they probably are a must. I invested in a set of pre-Black Book early F1R F3 publications but they will have acquired more information since then and the Black Books should therefore be better.

Allen

Chris Townsend

6 Jan 2007, 13:02

RAP

Many thanks, most of those observations are confirmed elsewhere, except for the Tecnos [tho I did have Peterson's from MN] and the Champin Merlyn
Also, the observation of an elderly BT21-17 run by Uren.

Will have to invest in a set of late 60s F3 records as some of those cars find their way into early Atlantic

Chris

RAP

6 Jan 2007, 13:54

Allen
I'm not sure that mine is necessarily different to what you may have. Mine is dated 1991 and is a dark blue soft cover/spiral bound. However I think Paul Sheldon has added to the master over the years so a current print may well have updates and corrections. I know that they have been doing so for the 500cc F3 books.
Richard

Gary Jarlson

6 Jan 2007, 21:28

Gary, a very warm welcome to 10 Tenths. I don't often call into the office on a Saturday afternoon but I am very thankful I did now! A photo would be awesome!

I am having yet another seniors moment, can someone tell me why we have the names of Dick James & Joe Trotter, NJ, -no dates, against this chassis? Was BT28-14 then the second chassis, -that was destroyed?

Andrew

Andrew

Dick James was the fellow I sold the basket case to up in Novato. Perhaps Friedrichs, who finished the restoration, sold it to Joe Trotter in New Jersey. Like I said, however, my constant checking of vintage race results has never yielded a trace of #19.

I never heard what the chassis number was of the twin to my car. Only that it had been destroyed in a crash. I was given that information in October, 1974.

Just curious, but has anyone ever found MRD build orders for these two cars?

Gary

Andrew Fellowes

16 Jan 2007, 07:28

BT28-27
1970 Jurg Dubler, Switzerland,
1990 Gerarad Gamand purchased from Patrick Jamin
1996 Alain Filohl, sold on to, buyer unknown

Andrew Fellowes

6 Feb 2007, 22:03

On Racecarsdirect.com there is a BT28 for sale in Italy.

PERFECT CAR CHASSIS N°69L22 TOTALLY REBUILD WITH FRESH FORD MAE ENGINE

Euromontagna

14 Feb 2007, 22:16

my records:
1971: Mermod, Salomon
1972: Richoz
1973: Kaufmann

Andrew Fellowes

28 Mar 2007, 23:47

Thanks Gary, lovely photo,
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/2332/jarlsoncargy7.th.jpg (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jarlsoncargy7.jpg)
"Here is the photo of BT28-19. That's entering Turn 2 at Sears Point in
April, 1974. The engine cover is off because we were adjusting on the fuel
injection." Gary

Andrew Fellowes

22 Apr 2007, 09:38

Does any one have any libre race reports of Howlings late 1970?

He ran a BT21 on a regular basis, and had an outing in a BT23C, but there are suggestions (from 2 different places) he raced BT28-20 once or perhaps twice before selling to Alan Joy in Jan/Feb '71.

Andrew

allenbrown

22 Apr 2007, 10:47

He ran a BT23C-FVA at least five times in libre up to 4 July and then a BT18-twin cam once on 6 Sep. Then a Chevron B17C in early 1971. I don't see a BT28.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes

23 Apr 2007, 23:53

Andrew Fellowes

24 Apr 2007, 04:58

He ran a BT23C-FVA at least five times in libre up to 4 July and then a BT18-twin cam once on 6 Sep. Then a Chevron B17C in early 1971. I don't see a BT28.

Allen
Thanks Allen, well its only hearsay that he ran the BT28 but the story is that it had an FVA with Howlings which is the sort of thing he could so easily have done. That if true, would make it eligible to run as a 1970 winged car in Group P here in Oz, much more fun than a 1969 F3 1,000cc in Group O.

Andrew

allenbrown

24 Apr 2007, 10:33

Hi Andrew

Wouldn't it be eligible only if it had run an International in that spec? Is a club level libre really good enough?

Allen

allenbrown

24 Apr 2007, 11:37

I now think that this to be the story,

Brabham BT28–2
1969 for Clarke Mordaunt racing team for Mike Beuttler in F3.
1970 Jim Edwards for F3
1971 Mike Stow for F Atlantic
1971 Up rated by Jim Glebe for Stow to BT29/35 spec
1972 Dick Barker, Mallory F2, crashed at Crystal Palace, chassis and chassis plate thrown in the skip, and new chassis bought.
Sold as a BT29 with BT35 tanks and no chassis plate AM number unkown,

Brabham BT28-20
1969 late August to Mike Stow
1970 Dick Barker
1970 Bobby Howlings
1971 Alan Joy
1972 Spencer Elton
1972 David Wadham-Smith
1973 Eton Motors
1974 Low Cost Racing to Greg Bowden to Denis LuptonWell done Andrew. I admire your perserverance.

So what happens to Barker's rebuilt BT29/BT35? After the 1972 Crystal Palace F2 race on 29 May he appears twice more at most - at Silverstone 10 June where we don't yet have enough information to say whether he was there or whether he started; and at Brands Hatch 30 July where again we don't have enough information to be sure. However, he kept entering events right up to September and entered the opening round of the 1973 series.

So did he just rebuild the car than then sell it on without racing it? Does anyone have a note of the dates he advertised it?

Allen