Brabham BT29

BT29-23 FB Cosworth FVC , entered in Tasman by Fred opert Racing for Evan Noyes as 1850cc.
At the 36th. Australian G.P. 21-11-1971 , Warwick Farm , now with Graeme Lawrence [ N.Z. ] but called a BT30 FVC 1800cc. Used by Lawrence around S.E. Asia , to David Sharp N.Z. at least before 1988 , still retained and for sale on internet.

David Render's BT29X/30

BT29X[Y]/BT30 . I don't believe anybody has yet come up with a ch.no. for this yet.If so I've missed it.

New to Tony Griffiths as a FB with an FVC , reported written off at Silverstone and rec'd a BT30 [ chassis , whole car ???? }.
Retained into at least mid 1970.
To Spencer Elton 18-2-1971 , and reported fitting BDA ,p.4.
T o David Render , reported in car A/S. 28-6-1973 , as ex Elton. p.47.
Render reported in ex Griffiths Brabham , A/S. 7-3-1974 p49.
Render now reported in BT29X, a/s. 11-4-1974.
Confusion reigns in A/S . as Render reported in ex. Hawley BT29 .
Render still has car 6-3-1975.A/S. p.50.
By 15-4-1976 a/s. P.50 , Render has obtained JPS Type 76 , but note states still has his two Brabhams, but intends to sell his BT29.
Advert for sale BT29X , which states car is hillclimb version of BT30. A/S. 6-5-1976 p.65.
At 16-9-1976, still retains BT29X.

The Chassis No of the Tony Griffith BT29-X is BT29-37. After the crash it was re-chassied as a full BT30. It still carries its BT29 Plate,and lives in a private collection with a BT30.

BT29-27 co-habits with a BT30

Further to Bryan's brief note about Brabhams at Trois Rivieres in 77 here is the list I have of Brabham BT29s in Canadian and SCCA races 1972 - 76.

1972
Bob Criss BT29
Roger Seacrist BT29
Ken Huband BT29

1974
SCCA
Peter Halsmer BT29

1975
Canada
John Storr BT29
Gordon Munroe BT29 retained 76
SCCA
Charlie Derbes BT29

1976
Storr BT29
Munroe BT29

Anybody able to fit any of those into a pattern or offer connections?!!

Chris

Comment on Chris's impressive list:
I also have John Milledge in a BT29 in 1972 - have I got the model wrong?

I see I'm pretty late in getting involved here. First a brief intro:

My name is David Irwin, I owned a restoration shop, Lime Rock Motors for 15 years in Connecticut. I've restored about 15 Brabhams, have owned several and have vintage raced since 1989. Recently moved to Virginia, bought some property where I'm putting up a small shop (3200 sq. ft.) while I work for ProtoType Technology Group restoring vintage racing BMW's owneds by BMW of N.A.

Here are a pair of BT29s I've had contact with:

BT29-2 Original owner Bob May, not Fred Ashplant (I've talked with Fred.) Sold to Tom Scott 1971, Scott killed in car at Daytona. Remains to Carl Whitney, Remains to Ken Duclose, Remains to David Irwin, Restored frame back to original, car restored, TwinCam/FT200, Sold to John Coughlin 2000, Sold to present owner Joe Blacker 2003.

BT29-46 Original owner Al Lader, crashed car, remains to Carl Whitney, remains to Ken Duclose, Remains to present owner Marty Handshy, chassis restored by Lime Rock Motors 1999, car restored by owner Twin Cam/Hewland MK5.

Hope this helps fill in some gaps for you. Keep up the good work, this info should help many in the future. David Irwin

I do know of other 29,30,35's,and maybe a 36 in the US. BT29's are very popular, must be 20 of them in the US. A vintage race on the East Coast can have 8 or 9 of them at a single event.

Over the years 3 ex USA BT29 's have migrated to our shores.
BT29-41??
BT29-14.
BT29-44.

My records:

BT29-41 Barry Blackmore, reproduced frame by Wayne Mitchell, I think this car is still in California.

BT29-14 Jim McConville Aussie

BT29-44 Steven Pike Aussie

BT29-14 , Jim McConville has sold to Steven Lunn .

BT29-44 , Jim McConville has taken over car from Steve Pike , finished it and is out and being used.

BT29-41 , that's why I had a question mark against it , this was from current owner , Tony Onley , who I see has car for sale as a roller on Racecars direct in the U.K.
I do have AM 69-47 , supplied against that car , but the -41 is certainly ????

BT29X

A/S Oct 15th, 1970 p.15
Tony Griffiths has an ad for BT29X to full BT30 spec. for sale.
Did he drive a BT29 & a BT30 in 1970?

Annnnd…, how many Brabhams did he have please?

BT29X and BT30X2 and BT35X2, or have I made a real stuff up on my notes?


Andrew

Andrew,

The BT29 and BT30 share the same engine cover. The BT29 has a fiberglass undertray (no side bulge) with the fuel cell behind the seat. The BT30 has fiberglass sidepods with fuel cells located inside. BT30 side pods are the same as BT36. Most BT35's had aluminum side tanks with fiberglass contoured ends, fore and aft.

David Irwin

Andrew. As I think I said in an earlier post Tony Griffiths destroyed his BT29X at Silverstone. Brabhams replaced the chassis with a BT30 one. The car still carries its BT29 Plate BT29X-37. Tony ran this car on the hills with an FVC engine.He re-placed this car with BT35X-2 that was fitted with a Repco V8 for the 72 season. I later owned this car when it had a Rover engine installed and sold it to Shaun Mooney,who had it fitted witha BDA by Simon Hadfield.

Some more digging in Canadian race results for 1973 gives us the following update on Brabhams

BT29
Archie Snider [Californian driver]

I've been working through Jim Thurman's 1970 US Fb results and I thought you might appreciate a list of all the BT29 drivers in the Continental Championship FB events (plus the Elkhart Lane non-champs race).

John Angus, Graham Baker, Bill Boyer, Nick Craw, John Dellagnese, Syd Demovsky, Dave Dours, Ken Duclos, Dexter Farley, Randy Fraser, John Girdler, Mike Hall, Larry Harley, Cecil Harris, Fred Harris, Steve Harris, Mike Hiss, Ken Huband, Allen Karlberg, Allan Lader, Robert Lamson, Dale Lang, John Lewis, Randy Lewis, Carl Liebich, John Marshall, Roy Maze, Wayne Mitchell, Evan Noyes, Jack Quinlan, Brian Robertson, W. Roland, Sandy Shepard and Matt Spitzley.

According the Fred Opert's invoice records, the chassis numbers of these cars are as follows:
&*$%^&...<transmission interrupted>

Allen.

Would love to sight the chassis numbers when you sort out your connection problems.

Was Fred Ashplant able to assist with March cars he was involved with.????

Bryan.

Nice wind up Allen

John Angus BT29-1
Evan Noyes BT29-23

BT29-2 was probably an Opert team car

Thanks Chris.

What's your source on Angus? Did he have the car that had appeared in that end-of-season '68 race? And are you assuming Noyes Tasman car was his 70 car?

Is it worth me trying to figure out who had their own car and who guested?

Allen

I found a couple of 1970 entry lists (Edmonton and Road America) so here's more on those US and Canadian BT29 owners:

John Angus (Hartland, WI) - 8 races - #16 private
Graham Baker (Christchurch, New Zealand) - 13 races - #67 or #82 private
Bill Boyer - 1 race
Nick Craw (Washington, DC) - 13 races - #71 Fred Opert Racing, Paramus, NJ
John Dellagnese - 1 race
Syd Demovsky (Chicago, IL) - 7 races starting at US R3 - #11 private
Dave Dours (Hudson, OH) - 1 race - #99 Manitowoc Crane and Shovel Sales Corp., Cleveland,
Ken Duclos - 1 race
Dexter Farley (Waldorf, MD) - 2 races - #55 Lykos Racing Corp, Neuberg, MD
Randy Fraser (Piedmont, Quebec) - 11 races - #54 Team IRI, Piedmont, Quebec, Canada
John Girdler - 3 races
Mike Hall (Chicago, IL) - 5 races - #27 private
Larry Harley (Dallas, TX) - 2 races
C. N. 'Butch' Harris Jr (Houston, TX) - 1 DNA - #34
Cecil Harris (same man as "Butch" above?) - 1 race
Fred Harris - 1 race
Steve Harris (Fort Wayne, IN) - 1 race - #45 private
Mike Hiss (Delran, NJ) - 1 race (R5, having driven BT15 previously) - #4
Ken Huband (Ottawa, Ontario) - 5 races - #15 private
Jay Jamison (San Diego, CA) - 1 race - #0
Allen Karlberg - 2 races
Allan Lader (Gresham, OR) - 14 races - #43 or #75 Fred Opert Racing, Paramus, NJ
Dale Lang (Wilton, CT) - 3 races - #38 private
Robert S. Lemson (Fort Collins, CO) - 2 races - #85 private
John Lewis - 4 races (R1 to R5 - is this Randy Lewis?)
Randy Lewis (Mountain View, CA) - 7 races (from R7) - #7 private
Carl Liebich (Two Rivers, WI) - 2 races - #78 private
John Marshall (Sandusky, Ohio) - 1 race (R6 in "BT29", BT21C thereafter) - #37 Team Suzy, Sandusky, Ohio
Roy Maze - 1 race
Wayne T. Mitchell (San Diego, CA) - 1 race in "BT29", described as BT28/29 at another race) - #53
Evan Noyes (Cedarville, MI) - 13 races - #72 Fred Opert Racing, Paramus, NJ
Fred Opert (Paramus, NJ) - 1 race (R1, DNA at R2; used Chevron thereafter) - #73
C. L. Phillips (Palos Park, IL) - 1 DNA only - #52 private
Jack J. Quinlin (Portland, OR) - 2 races - #81
Brian Robertson (Ottawa, Ontario) - 8 races - #5 Fred Opert Racing Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Peter Roberts - 1 race
W. D. Roland - 1 race
Sandy Shepard (Denton, TX) - 8 races - #59 private
Matt Spitzley (Aspen, CO) - 14 races - #36 Spitzford Racing, Detroit, Mich
R. C. (Bob) Welch (Alexandria, VA) - 1 race - #23 private

Beware the entry numbers. Even with only two entry lists, I can see they are not always the same.

Does anyone have any other programs or entry lists for 1970 US SCCA Continental Championship. If so, could you send me the FA and FB entry lists?

Allen

That's 38 BT29 drivers!! If only 29 were built, there must have been quite a bit of sharing going on. Or maybe Wayne Mitchell wasn't the only one with an upgraded BT21 or BT28.

Team Suzy in Sandusky would be Suzy Dietrich.

Allen

Allen

Fred Opert may have run a BT21 rather than a BT29 at R1 Riverside. That reduces by one.

Like you I think that Randy and John Lewis may be the same person, or else relatives sharing a car.

Chris

Ted do you have any BT29 AM numbers?

Could it be that the reason that there is such a large gap fom BT28-20 to 23 is that the numbers may be taken by the BT29's?

or,

Bob Ilich tells me that when a bent chassis arrived on Monday morning, the parts needed were taken out of stock. Beuttler's replacement chassis may well have been in stock for several weeks where as Tim's had to come from Arch.

How's that? Andrew

(the old frames were thrown onto the heap outside the back door. Bob did think about doing a salvage operation as these frames went to the rubbish dump).

I believe Harry Reynolds had BT29-25, (formerly Tim Schenken ran at Sebring), he removed the TwinCam and FT200 and installed a Cosworth SCA and ran it in FC here in the states.

Funny what you can sometime find when looking for something completely different:

Autoweek 24 Oct 1970 p26: Allen Kahlberg of Seattle advertises his "Brabham BT29 - Chassis No 41".

Funny what you can sometime find when looking for something completely different (Part 2):

Motoring News has a feature on MRD 10 Dec 1970 pp12-14 and has a table showing production to date. For the BT29, it has 19 built in 1969 and 29 built in 1970. A total of 48, which makes a lot more sense.

Allen

Allen

I've long maintained that the advertising sections of old magazines are the most interesting... As we often have home towns for American drivers maybe we can trace sales even when we don't get numbers

Re the BT29 build in 1969. Schenken takes a BT29 to Daytona at end December and wins the FB race with it. David Irwin says this becomes Reynolds' car used in FC and is 29-25, suggesting they knocked a few more out in the period between the MN article being written and the end of the month.

Chris

All.

I have a massive amount of info. on BT29 s , however , I gave an agreement to not disclose.

I am safe in advising , the latest I have is BT29-49 , AM 70-[ 3 figures ].
Also a BT29 , ch.no. unknown , however with AM 125.

Nearly all these cars are still in the U.S.A.
3 have escaped to Australia.

Re. the production figures , I have the ex. factory sheets as advised previously , and these show 31 off in 1969 , but no figure for 1970 production.
It may be due to the manner in which the sheets were photocopied for me , and the start of the next page had 1970 figures which fell off the sheet.

Bryan.

My production records(came from the best source) also show 48 cars ie up to and inc29-49(no 13)

Chris.

EX U.S.A BT29's.

BT29-14, AM69-31.

Appears to be .

Mike Hiss .
Ernie Haze.
Lou Pavesi.
Frank Bramante.

all in between 1969 and 1979.
1979 , Tom Fugate
1985 , John Treder.
1985 , John Hafkenshiel.
1985 , Lou Pavesi.

Thence to Jim McConville in Australia , and application rec'd by C.A.M.S. March 1991.

Changed hands after racing in historics to Steven Lunn , and to my knowledge has not been seen again.

Bryan.

Continued.

BT29-44, AM-70-119.

New to Larry Wright , via dealer Hayes Racing Equip. Santa Ana, Calif. 15-12-1970.

13-2-1971 , 1st. race SCCA , Nat. Riverside.

Ran all through 71 and 1972 and 1973 , until crash at Laguna Seca 24-6-1973.
SCCA tech. notes car spun into guardrail and bank--hit by another car , frame bent and distorted , suspension destroyed all but left rear.

Eng. and FT200 removed and slotted into another car , poss. BT29-22.
Remains sold to Mark Bahner in 1973 or 1974 , retained by Bahner 'till 1980, sold to Lou Pavesi , retained 'till 1993 , sold to Steve Pike and Jim McConville of Australia , and rebuilt .
The car was not much more than a dead frame and a few odds and sods.

Now logbooked and running in historics, after a lot of investigation into history . We believe it is correct.

Bryan.

Hi chaps

Don't know if anyone else has seen it, but the latest edition of Victory Lane magazine has an ad for a 1969 Brabham BT29:

"Serial #1. A rare 'barn-find' painstakingly restored after 30+ years of storage. Likely the most original, complete, correct, original (OK, OK, we get the idea, it's original!) BT29 in existence. Well sorted, ready to race. Documented great race history. US$71,500' on a Texas number.

BT29-1 was for sale, I think in the same publication,around 1997 - in California

BT29-1 has been for sale on www.race-cars.com for some time now.

I am beginning to wonder if we are achieving anything with these threads , granted we are uncovering some cars and missing histories , but as various people are recieving private emails telling stories , but unable to be quoted , where to from here in the intricate world of old racing cars.

In the new system of the F.I.A. historic paperwork , 2 systems are now in place.

For the people unaware ,

Part 1 , Historic Technical Passport , this is all that is required by the F.I.A. to compete in an event, and is to ensure that the car presented only complies with period specifications for that model.
There is NO requirement for history or Provenance on the application form.
So you can go get a DEAD chassis, or make a brand new one and put on all the period components and go race it.
This is unbelievable.

Note , whether an organiser of an event will accept a car such as this may be the saving grace , who knows.

The 2nd. part is to be a Heritage Certificate issued by the F.I.A. detailing history, and according to the F.I.A. website will only be issued to cars with an un-interupted history trail , and always having been as one 'Entity '.

Who is going to issue these papers and what sources will be used to verify owners history call outs.????????????

Does anybody know we exist , or Atlas , and do they take any notice.???????????????.

This will probably create a fair amount of discussion , so be it , it has needed to be said since the start of the new system.

The problem has resulted because the old H.V.I.F. forms were in some cases ' Drivel '.

I for one don't really mind if a BTxx has been turned into a BTxx+ , and it probably would not bother me racing against one , AS LONG AS I KNEW HOW THE CAR HAD STATRED LIFE, and IT WAS DOCUMENTED AS SUCH.

Bryan.

I am one of the Signituries for Single Seaters here in the UK So I hope that the Brabham side at least should be OK.

Is that for Technical Passports or Heritage Certificates or both?

Technical Passports as the Heritage cert will be far more complex and involves a "joint effort" I think.I cant see many cars qualifying .

Ted,
Thank you, In Australia you must provide the history as best as possible back to the original owner/builder, it is my understanding that over your side of the pond only a continuos 15 year history is required, is this correct.????

Hell we don't get it right all the time , and because of these forums some people are being asked to verify information previously submitted in this country.

But , how can a 15 year rule work on a 1966 BTxx , this is I believe one of the places where it all started coming unglued.
We all read the adverts such as Low Cost racing etc had with old openwheelers which were converted to F/Four etc, not to mention the March goings on , Lotus 23's ad infinitum.
We have here at least 2 Brabhams that were built at the factory by Aust. employees , and never had chassis plates , AM numbers yes, and they have full and continuos history , I am unable to see that these cars will be able if the owners wish, to obtain a Heritage Certificate.

Where to from here ???

As I see it , all H.V.I.F. approved cars should have to re-apply within 2 years , and the cars be re-certified , this would save a lot of double handling , but the BIG QUESTION still is who is to handle the paperwork and examine the trails , and verify same , the F.I.A. or are they still going to rely on the the local A.S.N.

What I think I am suggesting , is there any possibility of the various Forums being involved in any new process that is decided. ???

Regards Bryan.

Bryan, Could be argued that in the case of a Brabham a AM number was not a VIN or chassis number, in which case the two scenarios are covered by the FIA?

Quote from the FIA
“What sources of information will be available to the FIA?
Apart from its own records and those of its ASNs, the FIA will rely on all the usual sources, including specialist motor clubs, independent experts and manufacturers’ records, as well as documentation of the kinds mentioned above.”

“The second document is the Heritage Certificate (HC). This is, in effect, a statement that the FIA believes the car to be both authentic and original. It will only be issued in respect of a car which has its original manufacturer’s VIN or chassis number and can be proved to have existed as a complete car continuously since it was originally built.”

“How will the HC apply to the very many cars which clearly are old/ certainly original but either have no manufacturers identifying mark from new or have lost it over the years, or where the history of the car is lost in the mists of time?
It won’t, unless the owner of such a car can satisfy the two conditions for an HC. It is difficult to see how a car could be “certainly original” if it is unable to satisfy the two conditions.”

-and as I see it, no chassis/vin number, no continuos history, no H C. Dead set no concessions for mitigating circumstances, Game Over.

Ted, I see your reasoning!!

And who is going to pay for the huge amount of manpower required to get a HC? As these will add significantly to the value of a car, I can't see the "independent experts" opening their records without getting some share in the increased value of the car.

Some years ago, I would do detailed ownership histories of cars for a fee of typically $500 USD. I stopped that when I realised the risk of being sued by someone if I got it wrong. As professional indemnity insurance is too expensive to contemplate, I now turn down such offers. How will the FIA encourage such experts to co-operate or will they (continue to) turn up anonymously on TNF and 10 Tenths asking questions?

Allen

Allen.

Are we not doing some of the work now in these Forums , which is why I posed the question , who 'looks'in.?

The figure I have been advised that is to be charged for a Heritage Certificate is being mooted as $1000.00 U.K. Can anyone confirm this figure.?

Apparently the Certificates will not be restricted to racing cars , and will also be available for say a Rolls Royce.

Bryan.

As I understand it there will be a regular"signituries meeting" to discuss applicants TPs.Full continious histories period paperwork,photos etc must go with the applications,these will be kept on file at the MSA.

Bryan

There's a difference between our attempts to sort out all the BT29s or all the 712Ms, and a specific attempt to sort out the history of one car. The former is something we wanted to do and is of wide general interest; the latter would be a wealth-increasing exercise for an owner.

Having said that, I've just been asked to sort out the history of the one-off March 77S and it's so interesting I'll be doing that just for the fun of it.

Allen

Allen.

It is very difficult isn't it , in the course of my C.A.M.S. duties , I see so many applications totally bereft of anything other than the basic history, some people don't care , but the majority don't have the magazine , books , race programme etc. resources , and don't know where to look , and/or give up when they think they have done enought to satisfy the requirements , which when thinking about it means deep down they don't really care , all they want is took go thrashing around in an old racing car.

Ted.

From a U.K. source , I was advised that your scenario , was the intended way of handling new Tech. Passport applications, which if I read correctly , means no history no Passport , so no 2004 built Brabhams will be aceptable to the M.S.A.

As we do not need a Tech. Passport over here to compete in Aust. only the Certificate of Description , I can see no change in Aust. for our internal cars, the problem will be in 5 / 10 years time with cars coming to race , or cars being purchased from overseas.

To hell with the politics , I feel a BT38 , BT40 thread coming upon us.

Bryan.

BRYAN.I HOPE that this will be the case.Would it not be better to do a BT23 thread ????? . I still have a problem with the 2 BT29s that were sold by MRE herein the uk.that is chassis 19 & 20. I know where they both are now.19 sold by Matchett via MRE Racedby Cuthbert 72, Sabourin 73 . Mike Utley 74 .Frampton and Hutchings 74 to date. Chassis 20 Sold new by MRE end 69 to ???? ANY IDEAS.

Sincerely wish I could assist re. your two BT29s.
How do we sort this car out .i.e BT29-20
1] Where is it now.??
2] How did it get there.?
3] How long has it been where it is now .?
4] How far back can you go , sometimes it is easier to go rearwards if you don't have a starting point/ name.

The problem area always will be for us, the people in the U.K. who broke cars up as spares, and the other big problem is that some cars did , 1] not do much work, and 2] were used by non famous people , and/or in club events.

Breaking up of race cars over here virtually did not happen , as the cost with import duties of a new car was substantial , so the cars kept on being updated with bigger wheels , chassis stiffening , different eng. for a new formula etc. so the cars were in most cases still extant, where over your side of the pond , when it was a few years old , there was a fair chance that it was used a source of spares.

BT29-19 should ,I believe answer a Chris Townsend problem.

Regards Bryan.

BT29-19 solves a big problem. Thank you very much.

Chassis 20. Wasn't there a BT29 used in hillclimbs in 1970?

Looking forward to the BT23s. I know that 23-8 [built with an Alfa engine for Galli] was still extant in Italy a year or two back.

Chris

Ted.

Is BT29-20 a possible for the Tony Griffiths hillclimb car, that was totalled real quick and then recieved a BT30 chassis.????

Bryan.

No, that was 37

David , thank you .

Ted and all ,

Autosport May 23-1969 , at Wiscombe reports Roger Hickman having to be cut out of his BT29 FVA .
I have Hickman in a BT30 FVA ,on page 1 of this thread , was the BT29 replaced by a BT30 , and the BT29 your missing BT29-20. Time frame is correct .

We have sort of allocated BT30-2 to this , although David McKinney has notes saying BT30-3 , maybe this is the replacement for the BT29 , or is the Autosport article incorrect in calling it a BT29.??

Bryan.

Hickman had BT30-3.29-20 was only delivered new to MRE in SEPT69. It was going to be the 2nd team car with Matchets . Both cars were painted Black.

What about BT 29-20 ???. Who bought it new from Peter Bloor ??? He cant remember. It was sold minus engine but with FT200.It ended up in France in the 80s as a 1 Litre F3.

Just spotted an advertisement in Motoring News 19th November 1970:

BRABHAM BT29X: full BT30 Specification: built April '70: FVC Cosworth with Hewland FT200

Ad placed by Tony Griffiths.

This implies the car would still be carrying the BT29X chassis plate.

:happyny2:

Steve the car DOES to this day carry the same chassis plate.As you know after Tony crashed it at Silverstone it was returned to Brabhams and had a new BT30 chassis installed.

I think that Barker entered BT29-20 for the 72 F2 Mallory.Spencer had the BT28 for sale at the same time.The 29 coming from Peter Bloor as a cancelled order from Steve Matchett who went down the March route for 72.

Thanks Ted,
Must be a typo in F1R.
Bryan.

This is from my F.Atlantic car database concerning Dick Barker's F.Atlantic Brabham
I disagree with Ted that the car at Mallory was BT29-20, though Barker may own that car later in the year. It was, I think, BT28-2 at Mallory, but the confusion may stem from Barker owning both BT28-20 and BT28-2 at different times!

Brabham BT28 [2]–Ford t/c and later BDA, rebuilt to BT29/35 spec.
Delivered March 1969 for Clarke Mordaunt racing team for Mike Beuttler in F3. Used throughout the year. Sold to Jim Edwards for UK F3 in 1970. Edwards is described as appearing in ‘the Four Flags ex Beuttler BT28' [MN 25.6.70 p.9]. Sold to Mike Stow for Formula Atlantic in 1971: at the first race of the season Stow appears in ‘the hard-worked ex Beuttler 1969 F3 BT28 beautifully restored by Jim Glebe' [MN 11.3.71 p.6]. The car is updated to BT29/35 spec, or at least described as such in programmes. Sold to Dick Barker at the beginning of 1972. According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’ Since Beuttler’s 1970 BT28 was used throughout 1971 by José Ferreira in F3, this reference can only be to BT28-2. (The Beuttler/Ferreira car is probably the ex-Beuttler BT28 used by Glenn Hyatt in F4 in 1972 [A/S Sept, 1972], though this could possibly be Barker selling on the remains of BT28-2 after its big accident in the European F2 race at Crystal Palace.) What complicates the attribution of this car as BT28-2 is that MN 16.3.72 p.9 and MN 6.4.72 p.6 give its chassis number as BT28-20. BT28-20 was an ex Stow car, used in late 1969 by David Cole [debuting Crystal Palace 13.9.69], and was sold in late 1969 [MN 27.11.69 p.19] to Barker who used it in F3 in 1970. However, BT28-20 was sold to Alan Joy in 1971, who used the car in F3 throughout 1971, and the chassis number is given [A/S 25.3.71 p. 35] Joy offers the car for sale [A/S 7.10.71 p. 45] updated to this year's F3 spec; and it is then offered for sale by Spencer Elton, [A/S 2.3.72, 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy’], after MN says that Barker has bought Stow’s 1971 car. Furthermore, it would seem as though BT28-20 spent 1972 being raced in F3 by David Wadham-Smith. An ad in A/S 11.1.73 p.50 by Spencer Elton [again] gives the chassis no BT28-20 and says 'ex Stow/Barker/Joy/Wadham-Smith’. The BT28-20 attribution for Barker’s car might be explained either by a misprint or mistake in note-taking (MN’s F2 reporter assuming that Barker had kept his 1970 ‘ex Stow’ car), or by Barker having kept a plate from BT28-20 and attaching it to his new car. Barker has a BT29/35 for sale A/S 5.4.73 p.64 [Ashley 2279] which may be this car, or possibly – given the damage suffered by BT28-20 at Crystal Palace – a rebuild of BT29-20, which was originally sold to Steve Matchett with BT29-19 in 1970 and which has not yet been traced elsewhere.

Chris,

Can't agree that a mistake was made in reference to the Mallory 1972 meeting , as I just checked the Autosport report which states ''Dick Barker in his ex Mike Stow BT29 in Atlantic trim with a Graham Eden BDA. That sort of deletes the fact that M.N made a reporting error , with the two magazines we rely on both advising ex Stow .What it could be is a reporter assuming that a BT28 when fitted with a BDA should then be called a BT29 off his own bat, when in fact is is a BT28 updated to BT29 specs.
What it may well be is chassis plate switching as you suggest.
Interestingly Autosport report BT35-8 as ''F/Atlantic man Ed Reeves entered his Dave Bowen prepared F3 BT35 chassis '', something this car has never been since leaving the factory is an F3.
What seemed prevelant at this time is pure confusion with some reporters stating a car was ''say'' a BT35 simply because it had been back to Brabhams and updated to new bag tank/body work , when in fact it was a BT28 updated with BT35 components , and correctly should have been entered and described as a BT28/35, similarly in the case of a March description should be March 712/73B/76B , but that would have made life too easy for us.

Bryan.

Bryan
Part of the problem is that these cars get called all things, not least by their owners.

However!
According to MN 27.1.72 p.19, Barker has ‘bought Stow’s ex Beuttler Brabham which was brought up to FB BT29 specification last year.’

This is certainly BT28-2. It cannot be chassis 20 as that's racing F3 with Joy.
Agree the Mallory car is ex Stow but there is no evidence of Stow having anything other than BT28-2 throughout 1971 Atlantic season, and he does fit a BDA in it during 1971, at the same time changing the description to BT28/29, or BT29/35 and
even plain BT35 depending on the bodywork fitted and the mood he was in. [I now have programmes for virtually every Atlantic race in 1971 and most of the organisers result sheets] Even at the first Atlantic race in 71 - the point at which MN identifies the car as Beuttler's 69 F3 car - Stow calls it a BT29/35.

MN is very specific: ex Beuttler, ex Stow [can't be a BT29 as Beuttler never raced one, can only be one of two BT28s and Ferreira's got the other]. Ergo, Barker, BT28-2 all of 1971.

Dick Barker was dirt poor - he'd be high up the grid for the race to be the hardest
up bloke on the grid [though I remember Eric Horsfield going without food for some
days when I was doing FF] Barker certainly didn't have the wherewithal to buy first Stow's BT28 and then a BT29 from somewhere, giving him two BDA engined cars. [If he had two cars in early 1972 how come he fails to start half the Atlantic races he
enters when all he need do is switch to the spare?]

If Barker did have BT29-20, and it's a big if, it might be after he bends the BT28
very badly at Crystal Palace and instead of repairing it buys a replacement.

I believe that what might be BT29-20 has been traced to Staffordshire - Barker's home county. This might encourage us to think that the ex Matchett car had passed
through his hands. However, another Staffordshire resident with a BT29/35 in 1972-3 is Howard Rose. This might be BT29-20 or it could be the much reworked remains of Barker's BT28-2

RAP

Yes, Ferreira's car was his new 1970 model - I didn't know what chassis number it carried.
Beuttler only drove this and chassis 2. Chassis 20 went new to Stow late 1969 then to Barker in 1970, then to Joy 1971 [or even earlier] then to Wadham Smith for 1972. When do we think Beuttler drove BT28-20? [I used to think this but then couldn't find any evidence.] Stow must have BT28-2 early 1971 for Atlantic: Ferreira has 35; Joy has 20 and Stow's car at Brands 1971 is described specifically as Beuttler's old car.

Agree it's b***** complicated and not helped by possible errors in recording
chassis nos. I've looked at this every which way for the last two years and this
seems to me the solution. The Barker car at Mallory can't be BT28-20.
It could be BT29-20, but that would mean Barker buying two different cars within a month of each other - without us having any evidence of the provenance of the second.

Chris

Just corresponding with Doug Brenner and have discovered that his BT29 was chassis 44, bought new from Charlie Hayes. He couldn't remember who he sold it to but it was in 1972, and he recalls it being wrecked and broken up for parts.

The Chevron B15b (wrong thread, I know) came from Fred Opert and was picked up at Sebring after Rene Wissell had won the race in it. That went to Byron Hatten who flipped it at Riverside. It was then a FC for a while.

Allen

I have BT29 chassis 44 as Larry Wright's car, delivered 15.12.70. Kept by Wright to end 1973 then shared with Mark Bahner for a few years more.

Chris

Chris

Where did your details come from? You have delivery dates?!

Allen

Sorry - I withdraw the question. I've just found Bryan's post (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=934063#post934063). I'll go back and ask Doug if he's sure.

Allen,

No need to ask Doug really, it all ties up.
Car is very badly damaged and basically broken up , then when it becomes historically interesting the frame and some other dead bits start having other components added to them to be turned into a ''restoration project '' .

It is not a restoration when they are this far gone , more a recreation around a bent chassis and a few other damaged and rusty parts in my view.

Bryan.

Does it tie up? How can Larry Wright and Boug Brenner both have had BT29-44 from new?

Where did Steve Pike and Jim McColville get the chassis number and delivery date from? Mike Fitzgerald?

Allen

Allen,

I can only report what is in black and white in front of me , which is ,

Sales invoice from Hayes Racing Equip. inc.
1560 East Edinger Ave.
Santa Ana California , invoice no. 6077 dated 12/15/70.

1 x BT29 Brabham with used Brian Hart Engine , xxx dollars less xxxx dollars [ trade in ] Invoice made out to Larry Wright , 3060 Canyon Cres. # 5,
Riverside , Calif. 92507.

Further we then have SCCA logs # 19-332 [ 1972]
Brabham BT29-44 , FB , Yellow / Orange ,etc.

Also a recontruction of the cars history by Larry Wright starting at 2.13.71 through to 6.24.73 when and I quote ''
SCCA National Laguna Seca , crashed terminally in A.M. warmup ..punted off by F.A. at the crest of hill in turn one''.

I don't know where

stuffed that up ]]

I don't know where Doug Brenner comes into it , maybe co-owner of the car , ?????????????????

Regards Bryan.

Wright appears Seattle May 23 1971. I can't find an appearance for
Brenner in 1971 with a BT29. Did he run SCCA?

Bryan
A summary of the Wright appearances and results would be very
useful for those of us trying to piece together SCCA races from
1971 onwards, because there are hardly any results to be had otherwise.

[and thanks Australia for another great game -you guys just don't roll
over, ever, do you?]

Not a co-owner. Doug raced in the same races as Larry Wright in 1971 so it can't be the same car. Unless Wright bought a first BT29, crashed in before 1972, bought Brennan's similar car in early '72 and applied for a new log book. Sounds a bit implausible, doesn't it?

I reckon Brennan must have mis-remembered or misread the number. I'll ask.

Allen

Hi Chris - didn't see your post before I wrote mine.

Both Brenner and Wright race at Seattle and Monterrey at the start of 1971. Brenner stopped after Mexico because he ran out of money but didn't sell the BT29 until 1972 - after appearing in the Bogota race.

Chris - you haven't forgotten the 'back door' I gave you into the results section have you? It has a driver search.

Never give up.

And Warne does not know the meaning of patience.
At least you know you are going to get your money's worth when we are around.

Me.

Now to more mundane items.

This is all from the copies I have in front of me directly from the copies of the SCCA logs and a letter dated July 20 1993 from Larry Wright on University of California , Riverside letterhead.

Mr. Wright advises , purchased from Charlie Hayes , salesman was Mike Hiss , December of 1970 purchase.
Shook car down at Willow Springs 6 weeks later.
2.13.71 SCCA Nat. Riverside , blew eng on final lap while contesting 2nd place.
5.13.71 , Pro race Seattle , ran as high as 5th on incredibly hard tyres, finished 8th after a spin.
6.2071, Pro race Monterry Mexico , crashed on lap 20 while running midfield.
4.23.72 , SCCA Nat. Willow Springs , no record of competetion.
5.6.72 , SCCA pro , Laguna Seca, finished 18th.
5.27.72 , SCCA National + Regional Riverside , no records.
6.18.72 , IMSA Pro ,Las Vegas , finished 7th.
6.25.72, SCCA National , Laguna Seca , finished3rd.
7.30.72, IMSA Pro , Las Vegas , 3rd.
8.27.72 , SCCA Nat. Laguna Seca , 1st.
9.17.72 , SCCA Nat. Willow Springs 5th.
9.24.72 , SCCA Pro. Riverside , 11th.
2.9.73 , SCCA Nat. Riverside , scratched , no rain tyres.
4.1.73 SCCA Nat, Riverside , no records.
6.10.73 Outlaw Pro Race , Orange County Co. 2nd , lap record.
6.24.73 SCCA Nat. as reported , crashed terminally.

Mr. Wright advises in 2 1/2 years , entered in 16 races , competed in 15 of them blew one motor and crashed twice.

Bryan.

Interesting - crashed at Monterrey and then didn't reappear until after Brenner sells his BT29. Fits my "not very plausible" theory.

(I'm trying to resist mentioning Trent Bridge!)

The problem with threads as long as this and the Chevron B29 one is I , and possibly others forget exactly where we are , a case in point being a BT29 I have been advised of landing in N.Z. recently , BT29-41 to be prescise , without trolling all the way back I am unable to remember if we know about this car.

History as advised is ex Alan Carlsberg , Dick Dougerty , Hatton , Frank Monise, B.Blackmore , spelling may not be correct on some names.

Importer/owner is Warwick Mortimer.

Bryan.

Bryan

Most of this is new and useful stuff. We know this was Allan Karlberg's car in 1970 because the chassis number was given in a CP&A ad that season. Dick Doherty was a regular SCCA racer from LA who used a BT29 in 1971. He ran a March 722 in 1972 so gues that's where "Hatton" comes in. Frank Monise and Frank Monise Jr were again regulars in California SCCA [run a shop near Big Sur still I believe]. One of them [Jr?] runs a BT29 in 1975.
Some dates attached to the names would be useful but this looks like a solid Californian provenance

Chris

This post marks the point at which an assortment of BT29 material was split out of the giant Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 thread into its own thread.

Allen

Some ads from Autosport

1972 June 22nd BT29/35 Atlantic for sale, Claremont Garage 01 458 2525
1973 March 8th, BT29 for sale, Autofarm, Ivor, Bucks
1973 April 5th, BT29 for sale, Dick Barker, Ashley 2279
1973 Oct.11th, BT29/35 Atlantic for sale, Rollington 74022

Andrew,
As you are aware I have the original John Player Information sheets from Mallory Pk. 11/12-March 1972, and the Barker car is entered and noted in all paperwork as Dick Barker , Brabham BT29 - Ford- Eden BDA , and the same is in the Official programme.
Perhaps because it was changed to Atlantic/F2 specs Barker felt it was more a BT29 than a BT28 and entered it as such only he could tell us .
Bryan.

Barker felt it was more a BT29 than a BT28 and entered it as such only he could tell us
Fine, not a problem. Where is he now? are we talking Ashley as in Market Drayton, Staffs?
any mention of Church Yards will not be an acceptable answer.

Dick Barker bought a new BT29-20 from Peter Bloor and sold his BT28 also chassis 20(am69-38 to Spencer Elton.

Dick Barker bought a new BT29-20 from Peter Bloor and sold his BT28 also chassis 20(am69-38 to Spencer Elton.
Have I got this right Ted?
BT29-20 delivered to Peter Bloor in Sept. 69 for Matchets, who does not take delivery, then sold two years later to Barker in 1972.

No. It was sold to Mike Stowe prior to Barker.

That was a fast reply! thanks Ted, you must be up early in the UK!

Some of us have a living to make !!!! Andrew

Time for a review

Motoring News has a feature on MRD 10 Dec 1970 pp12-14 and has a table showing production to date. For the BT29, it has 19 built in 1969 and 29 built in 1970. A total of 48. A.B.

BT29-1
1969 Fred Opert for John Angus
2004 For sale USA $82,500

BT29-2
Original owner Bob May, sold to
1971 Tom Scott, killed at Daytona, remains then to Carl Whitney then to Ken Duclose
then to David Irwin, restored, sold
2000 to John Couglin, sold
2003 to Joe Blacker

BT29-3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

BT29-14 AM69-31
Mike Hiss
Ernie Haze
Lou Povesi
Franke Bremante
1979 Tom Fudge
1985 John Treder
1985 John Hafkenshiel
1985 Lou Pavesi
1991 approx. Jim McConville to Steven Lunn

BT29-15, 16, 17, 18

BT29-19
1969 MRE to Cuthbert,
1972 A/S Oct 5th John Sabourin, 1st Silversone, M/N Oct 19th 1st Castle Combe
1974 Mike Utley
2005 Chris Ball? In ex Vic Preston jnr?

BT29-20 AM69-65
1969 MRE to Matchetts, to Mike Stow
1972 27th Jan. to Dick Barker
1973 A/S April 5th, p.64 for sale Dick Barker, 3,200 pounds, Ashley 2279
1973 A/S April 19th, p.52 for sale D.B., Standon Rock 412
no more ‘till
2006 Matthew Watts, UK

BT29-21, 22

BT29-23
Fred Opert for Even Noyes,
2005 Graham Lawrence for sale NZ

BT29-24

BT29-25
1970, A/S Feb.5th p. 26 Tim Schenken, Sebring
Harry Reynolds?

BT29-26, 27, 28, 29

BT29-30
1st Owner Ted Wenz, F Atlantic
2005 for sale race-cars.com, Lotus twink, $69,000
2006 for sale $65,000

BT29-31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36

BT29-37
Tony Griffiths hill climb, crashed Silverstone, new BT30 chassis
1970 A/S Oct 15th p.15 , for sale Tony Griffiths to full BT30 spec.
1971 Feb.18th p.4 Spencer Elton, BDA
1973 A/S June 26th p.47 David Render, A/S 6.10.73 p.49 Weston
1975 A/S March 6th p.50 (Render) A/S April 15th Render intends to sell.
1976 A/S 5th June p.65 BT29X for sale
1980 Prescott Hill Climb/Bugatti O.C. Shakespeare Company/P Robinson
2005 private collection UK

BT29-38, 39, 40

BT29-41 AM69-47?
1970 Autoweek Oct 24th,Alan Kahlberg, Seattle, for sale
Dick Dougherty
Hatton
Frank Monise
Barry Blackmore, new frame by Wayne Mitchell
2004 Tony Onley, for sale UK
2006 Warwick Mortimer

BT29-42, 43

BT29-44 AM70-119
Charlie Hayes new to Doug Brenner, wrecked, broken up for parts,
Or,
Hayes Racing Equip new to Larry Wright 15/12/70
1973 June 24th crashed Laguna Seca remains sold to Mark Bahner in 1973 or 4, retained to 1980, sold to Lou Pavesi, retained ‘till 1993 then to Steve Pike
1998 Jim McConville, retains 2006

BT29-45

BT29-46
Fred Opert for Al Lader, crashed, remains to Carl Whitney, to Ken Duclose to Marty Handshy, restored 1999

BT29-47
Fred Opert
Now (2006) Denis Lupton

BT29-48

BT29-49 AM70-

BT29-19.The 2ndMatchett team car. Been in same ownership in uk since late 70s. ChrisBall car is BT28. BT29-5 Nick Craw(USA) BT29-21 Jay Chamberlain(USA)Bt29-48 D Chapman (florida) BT29-20 Went from UK to France and then Belgium(was used in Historics late 80s with MAE)

Ted, where did you get 29-5 as Craw's car from? Is that now or in period?

AM69/47 [no plate] said to be Graham Baker's USA car in period. Now with Tony Onley

Chris

Chris. I have noted it as "in period" Dont know where it is now USA I suppose ??

BT29-21 does not seem to have been mentioned in the last 5 pages, (I had assumed with 19 built in '69 the last built that year was 29-20)

2000 Dec 4th http://www.nvo.com/brabhams/door/ '1969 BT29 for sale Lotus Twin cam etc., Jamie Chamberlain. $58,000'

Also on the same web page two more BT29's but only with AM numbers, 34-69 and 125-70, which I assume have been written in reverse by mistake.

BT29-44 - the plot thickens. Ron Pohl just emailed me to say:

I was just reading a thread on BT29s (a subject close to my heart) and see there is some uncertainty about Doug Brenner's BT 29. I can shed some light on the subject.

Phil Palm and I (the same guys who are referenced re surtees ts8 in your web site) I purchased it from Doug in1972 (I think). It was last raced in Bogota by Doug and the engine was not running (spun bearing). Phil and I raced it with some success in scca regionals (me) and nationals and one pro race at Riverside (Phil) . The car was damagedon the rad while towing to Road America for a pro event. Wayne Mitchell fabricated a new chassis for us and we continued to race it.

I ran into Wayne several years ago at a vintage race where he does teck inspection and he told me he still had the remains of the wrecked chassis. At the end of 1973, we sold the Brabham(to a guy who owned a Christmas tree farm, but I don't know name) and Surtees and I quit racing for a while to go to law school. ...So that means the original frame was separated from the car but it doesn't really help explain the double history we have:

BT29-44 AM70-119
Charlie Hayes new to Doug Brenner, wrecked, broken up for parts,
Or,
Hayes Racing Equip new to Larry Wright 15/12/70
1973 June 24th crashed Laguna Seca remains sold to Mark Bahner in 1973 or 4, retained to 1980, sold to Lou Pavesi, retained ‘till 1993 then to Steve Pike
1998 Jim McConville, retains 2006

The other possibility is that Pohl bought Brenner's second BT29 and BT29-44 was his first one.

Not helping, am I? :)

Allen

Chris Ball's BT29, pit garage, Silverstone, 20 May, 2006

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7043/silverstonehscc40th20may200600.th.jpg (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc40th20may200600.jpg)

To avoid any confusion the car in John's photo above is BT28-42. The owner enters it as a BT29 and its history has been covered on the BT28 thread.

They sure as hell confuse me, especially if I cannot find a plate - shall I move the picture to the BT28 thread.

John, it's probably worth having it in both places as it's an "overlap" car.

Chris Balls car is not an overlap car but a BT28 fitted with a BDA so he calls it a BT29 !!!!!!!!

Ted, you've answered the question I dared not ask! I've put a couple of pictures of it on the BT28 thread.

"Overlap" in that it's relevant to mention on both threads.

BT29-41 ............
History as advised is ex Alan Carlsberg , Dick Dougerty , Hatton , Frank Monise, B.Blackmore , spelling may not be correct on some names.

Importer/owner is Warwick Mortimer.

Bryan.
I see that this is up for sale at race-cars.com for A$160,000 ex New Zealand

The car raced in Guyana Nov72 (and sold by Jimmy Fuller of Antigua to Mike Gill in Barbados later that month after an engine failure in practice at the Barbados races) and believed to have been a BT35 (or even BT28-8 updated to 35 spec?) has now been described by Howard Savoury (present at Nov72 Guyana races and then living in Antigua) as a BT29.
Both HS and JF (see BT35 thread) seperately and independently described the car last week as having been full F2 spec except for engine.

Over to those more expert than I.

Autosport , Nov. 19th 1970 , page 53.

For sale , Brand new BT29 '' a chance to own the first Brabham Formula Atlantic car . New type bag tanks , FT200 , 10s and 14s , full latest type wings $ 2400.00 ''
Racing Equipement [ Jim Gleave ] tel. Twyford 5096.

Bryan.

Regarding BT29-44. I have an entry of LOU PAVESI owning it in USA 1986.

The Brabham Users Group News Letter. Issue 1, 1991

The Way It Was by Harry Renolds


"...A visit to Paramus, NJ to look at Fed's (Opert) own car (BT29-3) convinced me that the car that Tim Schenken drove in the Sebring pro race was the correct one to buy. This car (BT29-25) had been tested by Black Jack himself......
The only BT28/29 in this country at that time had a works installed SC engine had been built for Joe Trotterin, New Jersey BT28-19 SCA 6016 and a Mk8 gearbox..."

Other names mentioned are as follows for 1971,
BT21 SCA, Mike Rand
BT29 Howie Fairbanks
BT21's Chuck Gravel & Dick Seeye
BT16 Jim Sechser
BT29 Jim Bloomquist

1974
BT40/BD Bob Klime

Andrew

I've been searching this thread to find a ref. for BT29-20 going from Matchetts to Stow in '69. I reckon it must be on the cutting room floor, sorry can someone give me the ref. again please?

Andrew

There is no such reference! We know 19 went from Matchett to Norman Cuthbert, but we don't know where 20 went.
Stow certainly started 1971 with BT28-2, but by the end of the season the car has been upgraded or replaced. The MN report on the sale of this car to Dick Barker suggests the former, but it is possible that Stow bought the unused chassis 20.

Personally... my thinking is now that Barker had 28-2, trashed it at Palace and rebuilt it as you say on a spare BT28/29 frame with 35 tanks, but didn't sell it until at least May 73 - when it's still for sale in Autosport.
This would exclude that car from being the BT29 of Howard Rose entered in Atlantic in 1972. Since we know where 19 is at that time, this suggests to me that the Rose car is the candidate for BT29-20

Chris

This would exclude that car from being the BT29 of Howard Rose entered in Atlantic in 1972. Are you referring to the "H. Rose" entry at Oulton 30 Sep? I hadn't twigged that that was Howard Rose but I'm sure you're right. He then enters a BT35 (Vegantune engine again) at Brands 18 Mar 1973 and a "Brabham" at Silverstone 14 Jul 1973. He doesn't turn up on any occassion but I guess the car can't have been a figment of his imagination. Interesting that it changes from BT29 to BT35. Maybe he had something earlier and an intention to upgrade it.

Allen

Are you referring to the "H. Rose" entry at Oulton 30 Sep? I hadn't twigged that that was Howard Rose but I'm sure you're right. He then enters a BT35 (Vegantune engine again) at Brands 18 Mar 1973 and a "Brabham" at Silverstone 14 Jul 1973. He doesn't turn up on any occassion but I guess the car can't have been a figment of his imagination. Interesting that it changes from BT29 to BT35. Maybe he had something earlier and an intention to upgrade it.

Allen

Or maybe he just fits some BT35 bodywork to the BT29 and Robert is your father's brother!

:relax:

There is no such reference!
Excellent, didn't think there was, thank you for confirming that.

Since we know where 19 is at that time, this suggests to me that the Rose car is the candidate for BT29-20
Chris Looks like it for sure. (EDIT wowa missed the above two posts while I was working on this one)

So who did have BT29-20 and where does Hickman fit in?

Ted are you sure that 20 wasn't delivered 'till September 'cause that not only rules out any connection with Hickman but suggests it wasn't a BT29 that he had.

Last night I went throught 1969 A/S to see if I could find any mention of Hickman or his car again and failed.

Andrew

Ted are you sure that 20 wasn't delivered 'till September 'cause that not only rules out any connection with Hickman but suggests it wasn't a BT29 that he had.

Last night I went throught 1969 A/S to see if I could find any mention of Hickman or his car again and failed.

Andrew

Sorry Allen, I am being dozy again
This Roger Hickman car is very interesting. Chris Mason says in his preview of the 1969 season (Uphill Racers p217) that "Another with the very latest equipment was Roger Hickman, with a new Formula 2 Brabham FVA BT30". He then crashes as Wiscombe (p219) and "had to be cut out of the wreckage of his Brabham suffering a broken arm". Later (p224), talking about the run up to the 1970 season, he says "the remains of Hickman's BT30 were rebuilt and fitted with a rare Winkelman twin cam unit of just 1.5-litres capacity for Brian Pickering and Nigel Woodisse.


I must pay attention
I must pay attention
I must pay attention

So Autosport say BT29 and Mason BT30. How did Hickman apparently que jump the likes of Schenken etc to get the latest F2 to use on the hills? That's an expensive way to go. Hickman must have been a wealthy lad, what happened to him (when his arm mended).
Any chance he could be reading this too?
Andrew

If you blink, you miss it.

Castle Howard (AS 4 Apr 1969) : no mention of Hickman
Curborough preview (AS 11 Apr 1969 p36) : Hickman's F2 Brabham BT30
Harewood preview (AS 18 Apr 1969 p44) : Sir Nick's BT29V not ready yet
Loton (AS 18 Apr 1969 p44) : no mention of Hickman
Wiscombe (AS 25 Apr 1969 p40) : Sir Nick's BT29B not ready yet
Harewood (AS 25 Apr 1969 p41) : "Roger Hickman's BT21 t/c"
Loton (AS 2 May 1969 pp17-18) : no mention of Hickman
Prescott (AS 9 May 1969 p43) : "Roger Hickman (BT29 t/c)"
Woburm (AS 16 May 1969 pp46-47) : Hickman's first appearance in brand new F2 Brabham BT30-FVA
Wiscombe (AS 23 May 1969 p49) : Hickman's nasty accident in his new FVA-powered Brabham BT29

If you blink, you miss it.

Castle Howard (AS 4 Apr 1969) : no mention of Hickman
Curborough preview (AS 11 Apr 1969 p36) : Hickman's F2 Brabham BT30
Harewood preview (AS 18 Apr 1969 p44) : Sir Nick's BT29V not ready yet
Loton (AS 18 Apr 1969 p44) : no mention of Hickman
Wiscombe (AS 25 Apr 1969 p40) : Sir Nick's BT29B not ready yet
Harewood (AS 25 Apr 1969 p41) : "Roger Hickman's BT21 t/c"
Loton (AS 2 May 1969 pp17-18) : no mention of Hickman
Prescott (AS 9 May 1969 p43) : "Roger Hickman (BT29 t/c)"
Woburm (AS 16 May 1969 pp46-47) : Hickman's first appearance in brand new F2 Brabham BT30-FVA
Wiscombe (AS 23 May 1969 p49) : Hickman's nasty accident in his new FVA-powered Brabham BT29

It would be interesting to find out how many people provided the above reports!

Consistancy is still a problem and going back investigating events nearly 40 years ago it really is a major problem. Some of the Club sprints were reported by a club member and often only feature their friends. One that springs to mind was a British Sprint Championship round and apart from a mention of the FTD you wouldn't have thought there were sprint championship contenders present plus there is no mention of the run-off!

PS Where is Woburm? :rotate:

Anyone know roughly where Hickman was from? There aren't that many in the phone book.

Allen

Anyone know roughly where Hickman was from? There aren't that many in the phone book.
BT30-1 and 3 are delivered prior to Thruxton on April 7th
May 23rd p.2 Malcom Guthrie has taken delivery of his (BT30-4?) and Frank Williams’ is to be ready by June 8th for Zolder and #6 appears at Reims on the 29th June. (Could have been earlier, just cant find anything at the moment)

If #2 was for Pike & Church Farm then it certainly wasn’t crashed as rumour had it. Church Farm were trying to flog their BT23C prior to Thruxton to anyone short of a car, -looks like they were still confident of getting their car. (A/S March 21st p.45 ex Bell for 4,400 quid)
By May 9th Church Farm had cancelled their order. So did Roger Hickman pick up the cancelled order and had it out at Wiscombe and quite likely Woo-bum too as I thought the two UK BT29s were not delivered ‘till later in the year.

If Hickman had a BT30 then it does fit the time scale quite neatly, but how on earth did he get in front of several big names?

I agree, we need to find Hickman.

There are several references here to it being a BT29 so it's possible that it was referred to as a BT30 merely because it had a FVA and was entered - maybe - as a F2 Brabham.

The other BT29 puzzle was Sir Nick Williamson's car. It never raced but it sounds like he had one being prepared. So where did that go? Given that MRD sold their previous twin-cam models BT14s, BT21As and BT21Cs to hillclimbers, it would be no surprise if they sold a couple of BT29s too.

One route to Hickman might be via Andy Sutcliffe, who should be easier to find esp. as there is a certain web site that list him as;
Now lives in Ashford, Kent, where he is a plant nurseryman. (Last updated 12 October 2003)
I can't find him in White Pages UK, anyone help on this?

BT29-8
Now with John Stowe, prevoiusly owned by Carl Whitney, and was raced last as a Formula C.

Andrew

Andrew

Does John Stowe have any dates or more info on the car? [some log book dates would be VERY useful here]
Karl Whitney ran a BT29 in FB/FC 1972-1976 until buying a new Ralt in 1977. This car was described as being built from two wrecks plus the bodywork of a third!!
One of the wrecks was BT29-2 originally sold to Opert for his own use late 1969, then a rental car, and the car in which Tom Scott was killed in 1971.
This car now exists as a separate entity.
Whitney is also said to have owned BT29-46 [a late 1970 Opert car used in 1971 by Al Lader until a BT35 arrived]. This was said to have been sold to Ken Duclos for spares.
So now we have three Whitney cars and some detail would help differentiate what was what, and when...

Chris

BT29-37
Tony Griffiths hill climb, crashed Silverstone, new BT30 chassis
1970 A/S Oct 15th p.15 , for sale Tony Griffiths to full BT30 spec.
1971 Feb.18th p.4 Spencer Elton, BDA
1973 A/S June 26th p.47 David Render, A/S 6.10.73 p.49 Weston
1975 A/S March 6th p.50 (Render) A/S April 15th Render intends to sell.
1976 A/S 5th June p.65 BT29X for sale
1980 Prescott Hill Climb/Bugatti O.C. Shakespeare Company/P Robinson
2005 private collection UK

Update on the above: the car is now owned by Richard Jones who was out hillclimbing it at Loton Park yesterday (Sunday 12/08/07).

:cool:

Can we now find out who the "private collection" was and whether there's an intermediate owner between Robinson and same?

Can we now find out who the "private collection" was and whether there's an intermediate owner between Robinson and same?

You have just guessed what I asked the new owner! :laugh:

Chris I've emailed John Stowe with your request.

Gary Dausch has confirmed that he has owned 5 BT29s
BT29-3 one of the bi-plane cars with wings over the front wheels, sold to Dan Dubrovich of New York.
One went to Dave Vegher in California so I assume this is BT29-43
One to Tim Gafney on the East Coast, I have no idea
One to Joe Blacker, the only number I have with Joe is 2 but from David Irwin
Lastly Harry Reynold's SCCA Championship winner went to James King, -anyone got a number for this one?

My thanks to Gary, who by the way is with Team Australia and one of the best young Aussie drivers Will Power!!!!!!

Does John Stowe have any dates or more info on the car? [some log book dates would be VERY useful here]
So now we have three Whitney cars and some detail would help differentiate what was what, and when...
J.S. reckons that the three wrecks became two cars, One for Ken Duclos, and the other became Carl's. Log Book, 1973; SCCA -details in email to you. Andrew

......interesting as #2, #8, and #46 all survive today.

Carl kept #8 I take it, and Duclose had the other two. #2 now with Joe Blacker and #46 with Marty Handsly.

The Reynolds car was chassis 25, Schenken's winning car at Daytona FB race in 1969.

A quick summary on BT29s that we have something on in 1969-70

1: John Angus
2: Fred Opert, own car delivered Sept 69.
4: Opert but perhaps only as agent
5: Nick Craw
9: Pacifico for Alan Lader
14: Charlie Hayes for Mike Hiss and then perhaps Graham Baker
15: Wayne Mitchell
19: Steve Matchett unraced in 1970
20: Steve Matchett unraced in 1970
23: Evan Noyes
25: Harry Reynolds
29: Maybe Sandy Shepard
30: Maybe Jack Quinlan
32: Freeman Racing - Mike Freeman
35: Opert for Alan Lader later part of 1970
36: Ken Duclos, sold to Mike Rand 1971
37: Tony Griffiths
41: Allan Karlberg
42: Freeman Racing - Chet Freeman
44: Hayes, unraced in 1970, then to Doug Brenner
46: Opert unraced in 1970, then Opert for Lader in early 1971
47: Opert late season, perhaps unraced then rental car in 1971
49: Opert unraced in 1970, then Barry Fox in 1971

Chris

This from the current owner Richard Jones:

1) Tony Griffiths only used the BT 29X in 1970 with an 1800 FVC in it.
2) Spencer Elton had it in 1971/72 and put a 1600 BDA in it which it still has.
3) David Render owned it (from 1973) until 1976,
4) Peter Robinson bought it (1976/7) and used it with a full width nose and a big rear wing until 1981.
5) Julian Majzub bought it complete with it's original wings which are now fitted.

Richard bought it from Julian over the last Winter. All of the above fits exactly with the previous history with Majzub being the mystery collector.

:cool:

Nice one Steve

BT29-32 owned at one time by Alex Veronac, some papers were with the car to support this, -Gary Dausch.

I've been away awhile.. and have moved to Colorado.

Thought I would add some clarification here.

Joe Blacker bought a BT29 from Gary Dausch, I don't know if it had a chassis number. Then he sold that car to Peter McLaughlin, which I believe he still owns. Joe then bought BT29-2 from John Coughlin. So 2 different cars.

Now in Colorado, I've recently picked-up another BT29, a disassembled pile of bits, and know of 2 other BT29's that have been sitting awhile. Should have all the numbers in due time.

Keep up the great work!! David

BT29-49
Gordie Monroe across Canada as a Formula B car in the early 70s, my thanks to owner Rex Thompson.

Andrew

Munroe had a BT29 in 1975-76
I have a note of this as Dave Ogilvy's car in 1972
I will email Barry Fox and see if Ogilvy jogs a memory as the buyer of his car

Chris

I am new to the board but want to write that I recently bought BT29-42 from Asa Candler in Florida, the car is fully sorted and restored by GMT in CT with twin cam big valve. The car was raced in the svra events since 2000 and prior to that was owned by a R. Cooke in the north west. I am in San Francisco. Does anyone have any history of the car with Chet Freeman or later? Thanks.

Chris R.

Welcome Chris

We'll do our best to fill the gaps in the history of your car but there are some very blank areas in most BT29 histories, since there wasn't a lot of note taken of chassis numbers in period in US FB and if a car raced mainly in SCCA we'll be hard pressed to know all the races it did. Hang in with us and in a while we'll get there...

Chris

14: Charlie Hayes for Mike Hiss and then perhaps Graham Baker
Chris
Chris, Graham Baker confirms that he bought his car new through Charlie Hayes in March 1970. He had 10 races in the USA and 4 in Canada before selling it back to Charlie Hayes in November 1970.
Graham's car went to Steve Jennings who took the engine out and the rolling chassis went to ? and sat in storage for 4? years being acquired by Frank Monise jnr who had crashed his other BT29 (#41) at Lugna Seca.

So Graham's car looks like a '69 production, i.e pre no.20 The prime suspects are #6, #16 or #18 though it does not end there.

How does this fit in with your records?

My hypothesis of 14 was based on Hayes keeping one car, running Hiss in it early season and then when Hiss disappears from a Hayes BT29 Baker appears in one. This won't work if Baker owned his own car and got it in March.
Has anyone talked to Frank Monise Jr?
Also, doesn't 69 production go at least to 25 since that's Schenken's car at Daytona in December

Chris

Has anyone talked to Frank Monise Jr?
Yes, and confirms it hadn't had much use.
Amendment. Jennings was an instigator not an owner.

can you give me a couple of days to add a bit more, the chassis is now with David Kent, c'mon David join up :rotate: you're doing some brilliant leg work!!!!!!

Change couple of days to a couple of hours!

This is the hypothesis,

BT29-? AM69-47
1970 New to Graham Baker via Charlie Hayes and sold back to him in November 1970
1971-4 believed not used, stored in residential garage.
1974 Frank Monise Jr bought it from a tip off by Steve Jenning, Frank had 2 BT29s, he also altered the front frame.
197? Sold to Gary Green (who had 2 BT29s) raced to early 80s
1993 Gary sold to Steve Pike


1974/5 Frank Monise Jr purchased a BT29 rolling chassis from a residential garage, dark red in colour. His understanding is that it was ex Graham Baker. He sold the gearbox & wheels and fitted the engine, gearbox & wheels of his crashed car.
Frank changed the nose to that from a March moving oil tank and radiator to accommodate the new nose. This was done by means of making a new detachable frame (and cutting off the old one).

He sold it to Gary Green who fitted a new roll bar and thus this could be how the the SCCA stamp was lost. Gary purchased a second BT29, after crashing what we understand is AM69-47 his first car.
Gary Green was the last person to have the SCCA log book

Steve Pike bought both Gary’s cars and brought them to Australia.


AM69-47 has a detachable front frame. It has an over size roll hoop with very agricultural welding. It has a section of chassis rail replaced.
Frank Monise’s second car was most likely BT29-41
Gary Green’s second car was BT29-?

AM69-47 has a detachable front frame. It has an over size roll hoop with very agricultural welding. It has a section of chassis rail replaced.
Frank Monise’s second car was most likely BT29-41

Andrew, do you mean that the car which Monise crashed and replaced with AM69-47 was BT29-41, therefore his first car?

Monise has BT29 f/s AW 6.11.76 p.32, which is I guess AM69-47


Chris

Sorry yes you are correct, I got that back to front, BT29-41 was his first car that he crashed and AM69-47 (perhaps ex Baker) was the second.

I haven't come to grips with how many 29s were built in '69 but you must be right about Schenken's, in which case in adds a few more no.s that this chassis could be, darn it.
Andrew

I purchased bt29-2 from Gary Dausch, raced it in monoposto events and won the forumla b championship with it twice. subsequently sold it to Antonio Sabato of canada. I next saw the car at road america driven by Joe Blacker.I dont know who Joe got the car from.Hope this info is helpful.

Hi Dan and a warm welcome, nice to see you here. Its about 30 years late for me to add my congratulations on the FB Championships, never the less please allow me to do so, usually winning is enjoyable, was it fun or was it hard work?


Can I ask if you are sure about the chassis number? Gary sent me this;
1) Chassis # BT29-03 was one of the bi-plane cars with mounts for the front wings to go over the bodywork in a plane with the front wheels. It was sold to Dan Dubrovich in New York. (and I have #2 listed as Carl Whitney and Ken Duclose after Tom Scotts accident).

Many thanks Andrew

Anyone got copies of "Finish Line" the newsletter of the California Sports Car Club (a division of the SCCA) from the early 70's?

Andrew

andrew,sorry if i confused you, the championships that i won were with the monoposto group in the early 90"s. I purchased the car from Gary in either 88 or 89. It was definetly bt29-2 and it is definetly the car that joe blacker had at elkhart when i saw him. the reason i know this was due to some of the mods we had done to the car after a major crash i had at road atlanta in 1990. it was rather spectacular as the car nearly burned to the ground after i was lucky enough to exit. we had been running the original fuel bags at the time and we estimated that there were about 20 gallons of fuel on board at the time. other than that the car was fantastic, one of the most forgiving handling cars that i ever have ever driven.

....other than that the car was fantastic, one of the most forgiving handling cars that i ever have ever driven.
Sounds like you're missing it even though it nearly barbequed you!!!
Thank you for clearing up the chassis number for me.


Looks like BT29-3 may have been Freddie Opert's own car and then vanished.
Andrew

Question on chassis design.

I've seen a BT29 with engine bay bracing from half way along the top of the engine bay on each side to the centre of the rear top cross member, one on either side and both detachable, bit like a Lotus 18.

Is that a common BT29 feature?
Andrew

Yes it is Andrew

BT29-46

Some block called Fellowes posted this n the other place.

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Brabham BT29 ......... with Hueland gearbox.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290175048637&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123
I think 1969 is wrong and what is the number #9342 after BT29?
Andrew An addition to the ebay ad says that it's BT29-46.

What an odd Fellow,

apart from the Hueland the car needs nuthing more,
I still can't guess what 9342 is, perhaps its another way of spelling something?

9342 might (might) be some sort of SCCA number read off the rollover hoop

Sorry I seem to be a few years late on the discussion of my Brabham BT29. I don't know if anyone is still interested in the details, but if you are I will be glad to tell the true details. I still have the original invoice for this car! I can also clear up the Byron Hatten and Frank Monise Jr. things. Let me know what you want to know. I will try to check the forum from time to time. I can also get in touch with Graham Baker. Douglas Brenner
Douglas@brennerfab.com
www.brennerfab.com (http://www.brennerfab.com)

Douglas welcome to 10 tenths,

Firstly, what chassis number?

Many thank, Andrew

I bought Brabham BT29#45 new in March of 1971. I think it was the last one made. As you all probably know this was not a current car as there were BT35s and probably BT38s by this time. The car was not assembled, so I went down to Charlie Hayes's shop and assembled it. I though you would like to see the original invoice for this car....Douglas

There are a few pictures of this car on my website under the "Doug's Biography" section...............
www.brennerfab.com

Some great photos!

So how did Byron Hatten and Frank Monise Jr fit into the picture?

Frank Monise Jr. is the son of local race and mechanic Frank Monise. Frank passed on a few years ago and Frank Jr. still runs the shop in Pasadena, California. It was a local hangout in the early 60's for racers. Byron Hatten was a friend of mine I met there who died quite a few years ago. He bought my Chevron B15b in 1970 or early 71 and crashed it quite severely in the esses at Riverside Raceway, California. As far as I know he didn't have a BT29, but I really dropped out of racing for a number of years after my last race in my BT29 in Bogota, Columbia in February 1972 and moved to Northern California, so he could have had one after that time. Frank Jr. (Frankie) would know those details. I also don't really know which BT29s Frankie had, but you could find this out from him.

I was just looking through this string and I see that my #45 was a missing car, so I guess I have filled in a piece of the puzzle! I guess better late than never!

I was just looking through this string and I see that my #45 was a missing car, so I guess I have filled in a piece of the puzzle! I guess better late than never!
Oh yes, its very helpful but its thrown me out with another chassis, never mind I'll work that one out later.

So did you sell to Frank Monise Jr.? if so I think I know where your car is now.

Andrew

No, I didn't sell it to Frankie. I think the info you have earlier in this string is correct except for the Chassis #. I was told it was crashed, so I think the one Wayne Mitcell fixed and kept the crashed frame is probably mine. The only evidence that I have that mine was #45 is the above included invoice. I guess it is possible that the invoice has the wrong Chassis # on it, but I doubt it. When we were racing these cars there was no vintage racing and no particular interest in preserving records of these cars. They usually were just modified until they were no longer competative and just fell into disrepair. Wayne Mitchell is still around, so if you don't already know his contact info, I could probably find it for you or talk to him myself and see if he could shed any light on it....Douglas

Allen, I need your help please,
OK I had forgotten this:-
BT29-44 - the plot thickens. Ron Pohl just emailed me to say:
was just reading a thread on BT29s (a subject close to my heart) and see there is some uncertainty about Doug Brenner's BT 29. I can shed some light on the subject.

Phil Palm and I (the same guys who are referenced re surtees ts8 in your web site) I purchased it from Doug in1972 (I think). It was last raced in Bogota by Doug and the engine was not running (spun bearing). Phil and I raced it with some success in scca regionals (me) and nationals and one pro race at Riverside (Phil) . The car was damagedon the rad while towing to Road America for a pro event. Wayne Mitchell fabricated a new chassis for us and we continued to race it.

I ran into Wayne several years ago at a vintage race where he does teck inspection and he told me he still had the remains of the wrecked chassis. At the end of 1973, we sold the Brabham(to a guy who owned a Christmas tree farm, but I don't know name) and Surtees and I quit racing for a while to go to law school. ...

So that means the original frame was separated from the car but it doesn't really help explain the double history we have:

BT29-44 AM70-119
Charlie Hayes new to Doug Brenner, wrecked, broken up for parts,
Or,
Hayes Racing Equip new to Larry Wright 15/12/70
1973 June 24th crashed Laguna Seca remains sold to Mark Bahner in 1973 or 4, retained to 1980, sold to Lou Pavesi, retained ‘till 1993 then to Steve Pike
1998 Jim McConville, retains 2006

The other possibility is that Pohl bought Brenner's second BT29 and BT29-44 was his first one.

Not helping, am I? :)

Allen

Just as a point of reference, I only ever owned two FB cars. One Chevron B15b and one BT29. I never had two BT29s. I earlier had a FC Legrand that never made a race. I drove a few races in 1969 in a Lotus 41 and in the mid 80's a few races in a BT40, but I didn't own them. The most probable scenario(the one that I was led to believe) is that the car was crashed and broken up for parts.

Douglas thanks and noted,

Allen I see you have Larry Wright in BT29-44 in 1972 and here http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.php?RaceID=Q71B you have Douglas in 44 and Larry also in the same race. Now I have a note that Larry had 44 new from Charlie Hayes.
Larry might have had two cars but given the invoice above isn't it more likely that your race results for Douglas in #44 are not correct and it should be #45 which of course then throws in question what car Jim McConville has.

oops late to edit last post,
Just that I had Lou Pavesi with 45 and not 44,

So should it be;
BT29-44
1970 December 15th Hayes Racing equipment new to Larry Wright
1973 June 24th crashed Laguna Seca remains sold to Mark Bahner in 1973 or 4, retained to 1980, sold to Lou Pavesi, retained ‘till 1993 then to Steve Pike
1998 Jim McConville, retains 2006

BT29-45
1971 March, Hayes Racing Equipment new to Douglas Brenner
1972 (post Feb) Ron Pohl & Phil Palm purchased from Douglas, subesquently damaged & new chassis by Wayne Mitchell, sold 1973 to a Christmas tree farmer. Orginal chassis was still with Wayne several years ago.

If it is a Wayne Mitchell chassis instead of an AM # it will have a WM # .

Andrew, as you'll see further back in this thread, I was in touch with Doug in 2004 and he told me then - or, more likely, I wrote it down wrong - that his car was BT29-44, not BT29-45 as we now know. That's how the confusion began about there being two BT29-44s.

I was subsequently contacted by Ron Pohl who said that it was he and Phil Palm who bought Doug's car from him in 1972.

Yes, it was probably me that gave the wrong chassis #. I think that I recently found this invoice. Sorry for the confusion. Totally my fault!

Jay Jamison had a BT29 new I think, this is what he had to say when asked if he still had it. Sold the car years ago to a guy here in SoCal named Charlie Hayes. I heard it raced a while longer in the hands of a guy who ended up at Indy one year.
He is a Real Estate Developer from San Clemente CA, anyone got any contact details please?

The only BT29 driver I can think of, off-hand, who made it to Indy [and was Californian to boot] was Peter Halsmer who raced one belonging to Paul Anderson in the mid 70s

Chris

When you mentioned Jay Jamison I thought I had a picture of his car. When I got the picture out it said on the bottom:
"The Pearl Special. Brabham BT/29 driven my Larry Harley. Sponsored by Pearl Brewing Co., San Antonio, Tex., St.Joseph MO"
I really don't remember this driver. As you can see by the picture it is an early BT29 with the upright mounted rear wing. Any idea which car this is?
Also Chris, I love your little post script. Is it possible you are a "Big Labowski" fan?

Smart car!! Race suit and fans to match in the background.
Harley ran some pro races from mid season 1970 according to the records.

Doug, the post script comes from a Steve Stills song, and for me is a reference to Berlin where I live half the time. I'm not much of a Coen Bros fan I'm afraid... Charles Warner tells me that it's actually about the great Alabama State football coach 'Bear' Bryant

Chris

Yeah, I just can't place the name, although I did get this photo from him.

I wouldn't have got it from Bear Briant as I am not a big football fan, although I seem watch the Cal Bears loose a lot.

Just looked Harley up and he came from Dallas, went on to race F5000 in mid 70s. As it's an early model that suggests he ran it in SCCA in SW rather than doing the whole pro series.

Chris

Now that's a great photo, bit cheeky of me asking but have you got any more BT29s Douglas?
Harley ran some pro races from mid season 1970 according to the records.
Interesting in that the rear wing is from the uprights, so is this a 1970 photo or perhaps earlier? When did that get banned in the USA?

Doug, the post script comes from a Steve Stills song, and for me is a reference to Berlin where I live half the time. I'd assumed you were a Joan Armatrading fan but I should have realised it would be something more literate than that. She had a song with those lyrics on her "Walk Under Ladders" album. But that was definitely about a bear.

Harley is a bit of a F5000 mystery as he seems to have had the best kit - a Haas-run Lola T332 - but for some reason swapped to an older T330 and thereafter was really slow. He only appears twice in the pro series in 1970 in his BT29, the opening round and then his home race at Dallas, but that paint job is pretty good and it may be that he intended to do the pro series only to find that he didn't have the speed.

Here are some pictures of Graham Bakers BT29 in 1970. I don't know which track.

The plot thickens again....Get out your boots!

Let's see if I can help with BT29-45, I have a list of former owners for this car.

They are in no particular order and no dates:

Robert Mijolevic, Pardeeville, WI
Julian Cox, Greensboro, NC
Roy Grange, Lowell, AK

And it's current owner, here in Colorado is Eric Stange.

I've seen this car, don't remember if it has a Arch Motors number. Will have to get back together with Eric and check it out again. I have in my notes that it was a repaired frame.?. This is one of the cars that I was waiting to disclose to the list, after I saw the documentation that the owner has. I would say he has the Douglas Brenner car.

Now, to also add, I presently negotiating with a guy who purchased an original frame from Mr. Wayne Mitchell, Wayne had built a completely new frame for his customer. This guy bought the frame because his car had been converted to a sports racer after being wrecked years ago. The frame from Wayne was/is chassis AM70-120. Sister to AM70-119?

I also acquired a nasty BT29 project car from Eric Stange, with no numbers and a very modified rear cross-member so no AM number either, still waiting to see the documentation for that as well.....

Well there ya go.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

Now, to also add, I presently negotiating with a guy who purchased an original frame from Mr. Wayne Mitchell, Wayne had built a completely new frame for his customer. This guy bought the frame because his car had been converted to a sports racer after being wrecked years ago. The frame from Wayne was/is chassis AM70-120. Sister to AM70-119?
Well there ya go.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO
My oh my!
David I have a couple of other am numbers and AM70-120 would fit perfectly as Douglas' original frame. I think you've hit the jackpot for Douglas with not only his car but the old frame too.

This place is amazing! Andrew

G'day all

I have recently recovered this car, in sad shape. It has race history from 1980 onward, but I have not found any previous race history. Raced in Can-Am by Jerry Kehoe of CA during the 80's. Any information regarding its previous whereabouts will be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

I have:

W. Boyer, James Connell (Pollack Pines,CA) and Fred Schrameck (Orangeville,CA) as former owners.

David Irwin
Evergreen, CO

Welcome Gryphon

Can you say where you got this car from? I thought I knew where it was and I didn't think it was in 'sad shape.

Allen

I just found this picture. Who would have guessed anyone would ever have been interested! This is a picture of me (grubby on left) and Graham Baker in Detroit in the summer of 1970. I would guess it was just after the Mosport Continental race. In the forground is my Chevron and in the background is Graham's BT29 in yellow with orange. This car was painted in Bonphil racing colors like Mike Eyerly, Al Lader and mine. He must have had some deal with Bonny and Phil.

Chris, didn't Ron Dykes (from california) run at Indy? I don't remember if he qualified, I am sure he ran some of the California 500 races and maybe some others.

Chris, didn't Ron Dykes (from california) run at Indy? I don't remember if he qualified, I am sure he ran some of the California 500 races and maybe some others.Pretty sure he didn't. I have no record of Dykes in any Indycar races.

Well done Douglas. This shot would have been taken in the August of 1970 because that is when Graham repainted his car from the green and yellow to all yellow with the Bonphill sponsorship. Incidentally he also fitted a Hart twin cam at this time in place of the vegantune. Must have come into some money!

Here I a couple of pictures of a BT29 in Bonphil Racing colors. I don't recognize the #, but I am sure someone out there will know.

Here is a shot of the Fred Opert van in 1970. Don't know which track. My crew guy Peeper is kneeling over my Chevron and I am drinking. I think that is Laders BT29. Also, I am pretty sure that the previous picture of Graham Bakers car in green is at Kent, Washington.

Ron Dykes never raced at Indy, or to my knowledge raced that kind of car. Mike Hiss was 1972 Indy 500 rookie of the year and for a while raced for Penske. When Mario was racing F1 at Monico, Mike would qualify his car at Indy. Gordon Smiley, who raced in the February 1972 races in Bogota, was killed at Indy.

JJ
I don't think Dykes ever raced at Indy either. He's associated occasionally now with Historic Grand Prix.
Here's a shot from Dallas International in 1970, along with the Opert stable.
Chris, if you give me long enough I might come up with another BT-29 driver at Indy.
Somewhere I have a ton of lousy snapshots (from Gordon's estate I think) of a bunch of cars being loaded into some old DC-3 in Miami and again unloaded in Bogota. I think Allen at oldracingcars.com has a few of them, and the cars range from March 722s to Brabham BT 38s, odd ball looking Chevrons with big mouths and high wings and of course, that lovely Merlyn.
One of the prettiest 29s ever, IMO, was owned by Stephen Louden from Dallas, TX. He painted it a great metallic dark orange/black/yellow and I think I never stopped to shoot a photo of the thing.
That event is discussed a little bit in the Merlyn Mk 21 thread, and although I was there, I don't remember Douglas at all.
But he's not the only thing I don't recall from 1970!
One of the most wonderful things about these old photos is what you see in the background. Brenner's picture looks to be from roughly the same position as mine, note the wacky RV at the back! And he's doing more that drinking, note the stare at the girl with the pony tail!
Happy holidays to everyone.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/davhut/Operts1970_DIMSsm.jpg

Wow, what a great picture!! Thanks so mucn. I also have some picture from Miami where the cars were loaded onto the plane. I think it was a DC6. It was the first time I saw spares! Engines and even frames. They are on slides somewhere. Bob Lazier had a March 722. Pretty nice. It was also the beginning of new tires all the time. In 1971 I was given some Dunlops before Sears Point. Most everyone ran Firestone YB11s. I ran those tires for the rest of the season, and I mean those 4 tires! These were 100 mile or so races with tons of practice and qualifying. I probably ran some nationals too. I went to the runoffs at the end of the year with those same tires. At Bogota in my BT29 I replaced my YB24 Firestones with Goodyears. They were slicks. With no change at all to the car, I was 2 seconds faster. My engine failed in the first race and we went home. That was the end of my racing for quite a few years. I quit just when it started to get really expensive. Any pictures you all have out there would be apperciated. Send files to douglas@brennerfab.com or you can send cds etc. to my at the address on my website www.brennerfab.com

I remember Dallas quite well. These were cars with radiators in front. It was quite hot and we put a pyrometer on my shoes when I got out of the car. 140 deg F! I put plastic bags with ice inside my driving suit during the race. I am a southern california boy who grew up racing Riverside and Willow Springs in the summer, and to this day love the heat, so it really didn't bother me too much. Tom Kornell passed out while driving the race. His car just slowed to a stop on the straight!

Here is a picture and the entry list from Bogota, the first of the two races. I qualified 6th. That is Gordon Smilye in his Merlyn just in back of me. I think I was the fastest tube frame Brabham and I think the second Brabham with Bert Hawthorne in the BT38 on the poll. I only lasted a few laps. The scavange side oil line came loose and the enging filled up with oil and wrecked itself. This was my last time in the car.

Correction. It was 1970 I had the Dunlops. You can see them in the pictures of the Chevron.

Here are the results of those two Bogotá races: 27 Feb 1972 (http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.php?RaceID=Q72N) and 5 Mar 1972 (http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.php?RaceID=Q72O). Thanks for the entry list, I'll add those details next time I do an update.

I am sure that you all are right, as my good freind Davhut can atest, the top of my head is a scarey place. That plus 70-71 seems like.....40 years ago! I might be confusing Dykes with Dennis Firestone, although I can't remember Firestone ever running a BT29. Met Firestone for the first time in 69-70 at Dallas International Raceway, always remember the drivers meeting where they told everyone (with a straight face), that they had a diver on duty if we got into the "lake."

The only drivers I can find who drove a BT29 and also drove in a Indycar race are:

Pete Halsmer (27 Indy/USAC appearances, drove a BT29 at the Run-Offs in 1974)
Mike Hiss (32 Indy/USAC appearances, drove a Hayes BT29 once in 1970 and once in 1971)
Randy Lewis (2 Indy/USAC guest appearances at Laguna in 1983 and 1984, drove a BT29 during 1970)
Evan Noyes (drove his F5000 car in a USAC race in 1974)

However, I don't have 1969 FB results yet so I may be missing a whole bunch of other contenders.

Welcome Gryphon

Can you say where you got this car from? I thought I knew where it was and I didn't think it was in 'sad shape.

Allen
The car has been "resting comfortably" in the Sacramento area for at least 15 years, unused and untouched. The suspension was (poorly) modified to increase the track width for the CanAm body, which was also poorly fitted. Still sporting the Olds(not Repco) 3.5 V8 installed by Kehoe. Original body and engine MIA. Would like to know where this car was prior to 1980. Frisbee-style CanAm body was formed for Kehoe by local hero Hal Whipple. All history subsequent to 1980 easily verified locally. At this point, the neglected chassis is good only as a pattern to build a new one. All alloy parts have significant corrosion damage. A sad end, unless early racing history exists. Not cos