Ralt RT 1

A Ralt RT1 appeared at the track today, now owned by Dan Daly and BDG powered. However I first saw this car in an Autosport ad 20-ish years ago (could it have been a John Brannigan one ?) when it had some kind of US V6 fitted. It was offered for sale with a Cicale sports car body as an alternative.. Subsequently it appeared here owned - but never run - by Jackie Harris before moving on to Jeremy Bouckley.
But.....Where did it come from. It doesn't appear to have any kind of chassis plate, but the tun looks sufficiently similar to my old - and sadly now departed - ex-Perkins RT1/2/Coogar to render it pretty venerable. As it came from the US, could it have been a Supervee at one time or, more acceptably, an Atlantic ?. Track appears to be narrow but outboard rear radius rod mounting points suggest 75, or 76 at latest......
As one who firmly believes that the RT1 was the friendliest racing car of its time, I'd love to know....

Cicale-bodied Ralt RT1? There were several of those in Can-Am between 1979 and 1984. At least one ran in the big class with a V6. If you can give me any more clues, I may be able to narrow it down.

Allen

I've dug out a few photographs of the RT1 that used to be housed in a Cicale CanAm body. I've put them at www.dendra.net/RT1/ . Any Ideas of what car it is? I have more photographs if needed.

Dave.

Dave

Mike Freberg drove a Ralt RT1 with a Buick V6 engine in Can-Am in 1983. How do you know it once had a Cicale body? Does it still have the body with it somewhere? Do you know the name of any of its US owners?

Allen

Dear all, I know we are not into wild guesses but given the car has an FG gearbox , is it possible this is the ex Eddie Cheever RT1 F2 car.

Chris do you have a trail for that car.???
Bryan

Bryan

which Cheever F2 RT1?
RT1-35 used 1976. Owned by Roger Heavens Racing 1977 but not raced.
RT1-64 used 1977 by Cheever. 1978 raced by Romeo Camathias in F2 then sold to Alo Lawler and used in AFX championship 78-79 with a Hart 420R engine.

From what I can see of Ralt records it looks as though ten F2 models were built. RT1-35 in 1976, then three for Project 4 [64;67;68] three for Sc.Passatore/Everest [65;66;69] fitted with the Ferrari engine; then 87 for Ariel Bakst; 92 for Vicic in Japan and 99 for Cassani [raced by Larry Perkins and Manfred Winkelhock]

With an FG and big brakes it could presumably be any of those cars, or an Atlantic that someone modified.

Chris, I said we were not into wild guesses , and then have a go myself. Oh dear, it was the first one I thought of. Yes certainly could have been modded, I will stay away from mad guesses in future.

Reards Bryan.

As far as I know, the Alo Lawler RT1 went to Tom O Leary in '81 who raced it here in Atlantic. It was a very nice car. I don't know what happened it after.

The ex-V6 RT1 has no deformable structures and show signs of being a '75 or '76 car. At the time it was purchased we were told it was the "first RT1" (this would make it the third "first RT1" I had heard of, excluding the real first RT1...). I think some of it it's probably from the first year of production. The lack of a plate suggests that at some stage it was probably improperly imported into some county with high duties (SA? AUS??).

Dave.

Smellybeard

Your comments might allow us to narrow the search. Here are my histories of 1975 Ralts, and there are one or two possibilities in there.

Ralt
RT1 /1 Ford t/c 1975: Roberto Marazzi
1976: Oscar Pedersoli [Sc. Brescia Corse]
This car for sale recently as F3

/2 Ford t/c 1975 Works: Larry Perkins (F3)
1976: Mike McDowell (h.c) [Can probably trace history within British hillclimbing after this]

/3 Ford t/c 1975: Works: Terry Perkins
1976-77: Hans-Peter Hess [F3:D] [only other possibility is 24]

/4 BMW 1975: Bertram Schafer
1976: Bertram Schafer

/5: Hart BDA 1975-1977 John McDonald (Singapore)
1979 Peter Marshall (SEA)

/6 BDA 1975: Pat Walter (SCCA: FAtlantic)

/7 BDX Swindon 1975-76 John Wingfield Wrecked in fatal accident to Wingfield at Thruxton G8 race September 76

/8 BMW M12 1975-77 Lochmann: Freddy Kottulinsky
Missed this off my list of F2 Ralts. This might have had an FG and bigger brakes, and would have had the later deformables.

/9 Hart 420R 1975-77 Teddy Yip: Vern Schuppan and others in S.East Asia

/10 BDA Swindon 1975-76 Roy Klomfass (FAt: ZA)
Wrecked in huge accident in 76.

Your comment on the lack of plate and the high duties, together with the age hints at the Klomfass car but that's total hunch/speculation

Chris

Chris.
You can remove RT1-5 from list of supects, as it ended up over here, I have the full trail .
About 3 years ago Peter Mohr took it to the U.S.A. and raced it there , when he returned he had done a chinese deal and returned with RT4-354.

In the shower this morning I was contemplating the use of the words , WRITTEN OFF , DESTROYED , WRECKED ETC. both by period reports and currently.

Your comments re. Klomfass car as an example , Wrecked ,
but what did that mean to the reporter , knocked a couple of corners off , or the whole catastrophy .
In most cases unless the car was burnt to a crisp , we are really flying blind unless we know car poss. broken up and components then used in another car .
Old racing cars have a habit of lurking around as a collection of bits seemingly forever.

Bryan.

Chris,
I can bring you up to date on RT1/2, as I drove it in a hill climb last month ! After Coombs of Guidford director Mike McDowell got hold of it he ran one year on UK hills with Hart power before turning it into the Coogar with DFV conversion by Derek Gardner (COO for Coombs, GAR for Gardner).
It then passed to Alan Payne who fitted a Rover V8 and thence to David Keer from whom I acquired it in 1986.
It lived with me for 12 years, during which it won 3 Irish Hill Climb Championships before going on to John Leinster in Londonderry and thence to its current home with John McNamara in Co Clare.
The tub has been re-bonded and riveted a couple of times, but it is essentially original. When I got it it had the 'narrow cockpit' bodywork - and a March nose and Brabham wing (!) but we treated it to a set of later Ralt fibreglass a few years back. It remains my favourite racing car andm thanks to the generosity of its current owner, I get to drive it occasionally !

I think RT1/9 is also an Irish resident. It has the long roll-over supports and the later (common) style of deformable structures. The Kottulinsky car had an earlier style of deformables which were not quite the same.

At what stage were deformables required on Atlantics? Were RT1 tubs retofitted with them? Is there any other way of identifiyng the class an RT1 tub was intended for?

Dave.

I know these cars have been discussed under anotherr heading, but I can't remember which one. And it makes sense to have a separate RT1 one anyway

Examples that raced in New Zealand:

36...Dave McMillan 1976-80 (also in Canada 1976/77). Sold USA 1980. Adsvertised UK 1990

39...Bruce Allison 1977

73...Hugh Owen 1978-80, McMillan 1981-82, latterly with Datsun engine. McMillan still owned 1984

88...Steve Millen 1980-81, Eric Morgan 1982-84

91...Larry Perkins 1977. Later John Smith, Ron Barnacle, Brett Fisher Australia

??...Charlie O’Brien 1981. My report in Motor Action at the time said "bought in England, where it had been raced by a Scotsman". Ken Smith for sale late 1988

??...an unraced car was advertised for sale June 1988

??...Bob Creasy for Dennis Dunbar - described as ex-McMillan - 73?

David

If the Charlie O'Brien car was an Atlantic [and not an F3 rebuild] then it might well have been chassis 145, raced by Bernard Hunter in 1979 and David Duffield in 1980. Both Scots and the car painted dark blue and white.

Chris

Yes, I wondered about Bernard Hunter too
Oddly enough, the number 145 rings a bell, though I can't believe I would simply remember it from that long ago! I can't find any note I might have made of the number.
Can't remember exactly what colour it was in NZ - but certainly not dark blue. Maybe predominanlty yellow. Or white.

Chris and David .

Ralt RT.1
See my post on Chevron tread p6.
RT1-91 ,Neither Ron Barnacle nor Brett Fisher connected with this chassis no.

RT1-145 is Charlie O'Brien car as noted report of Aust. G.P. 1981 at Calder Pk. Victoria 8-11-1981, where car is described as ex. O'Brien and driven by Ron Barnacle with ch.no. 145 listed . ref. Aust. Motor Racing Yearbook 1981/2
Brett Fisher may well have been in this car,but I have no record of being assoc. with -91.

RT1-88 , built oct.1977 for Brian Robertson U.S. Ralt agent , 1977 owned by Schollum Brothers Racing , Hong Kong, presume driver Steve Millen,, certainly at 1979 Macau G.P. 2nd. Steve Millen, also 1980 N.Z. G.P. 1st Steve Millen via 2 x heats.Aurora A.F.X. series , at Pukekohe 12-1-1980 .
1981 used in movie Smash Palace .
1981 to 1984 Eric Morgan N.Z.
1984-1988 Gary Devon N.Z.
1988-1992 Ken Smith [who else ] .
1992- Ziggy Schuler Aust.
sold sometime shortly after to I believe U.S.A.

Bryan.

Originally posted by Bryan Miller
RT1-88 , built oct.1977 for Brian Robertson U.S. Ralt agent , 1977 owned by Schollum Brothers Racing , Hong Kong, presume driver Steve Millen,, certainly at 1979 Macau G.P
The Schollum brothers sure as hell didn't own their RT1 in 1977. Did you mean 1979?

Re RT1-73, the Hugh Owen car. Does anyone know where this car came from? Would Portland and Pierre Phillips ring any bells?

There were several RT1 Atlantics in circulation in 1977 in N.America and apart from Craig Hill's and Chip Mead's I don't know any of them - apart from the fact that the build numbers for '77 cars are most likely between 72 and 87.
There were also two second hand cars floating about. [30 ex Bertil Roos, and 34 ex Cogan]

Chris

Only know that the Owen brothers' car came from the US - I'd guess through Dave McMillan, who was associated with Brian Robertson. On the other hand, Pierre Phillips had raced in NZ before, so that would make sense too.

Bryan:
My own "NZ Motoring News" report of the 1981 AGP says Barnacle's car was the ex-O'Brien.
Sorry about that

I have a vague recollection that an ex-Cogan RT1 became a Can-Am car in 1977 or 1978. I'll check to see if I wrote it down.

Allen

David, you are absolutely correct , apologies, I accepted at face value info in front of me .
Millen was certainly 2nd. at Macau in 1977 , only problem was he is listed as in a B39 Chevron.
ALL, the Macau G.P. is coming more into play in what we are doing and there is a lot of cars running over there , especially by 1977/8/9 that travel to N.Z.
In 1979 there are 6 x RT1's for the following.
K.Cogan.
B.Earl.
T.Gloy.
S.McKitterick.
G.Lees.
P.Marshall.
Only Marshall's car can I put a number to , RT1-5.
The first 4 I believe are all U.S.A based.
Re Millen , David , do you agree RT1-88 in N.Z.for him.
I have just checked 2nd. at Macau in 1979 was Riccardo Patrese in a March-Hart 792.

Memo to me , do not ever accept at face value again.

Apologies again.
Bryan.

Originally posted by Bryan Miller

Re Millen , David , do you agree RT1-88 in N.Z.for him.
Yes, as in my opening post
The Schollum brothers were Millen's backers throughout his early years, providing (IIRC) Elden FF, various Chevrons and the RT1. Although New Zealanders, they were based in SE Asia, hence Millen's frequent races in that region

BTW, I have promised Chris access to my NZ publications covering the early FP era (1977-84). They also cover Australian and Asian races. Only a matter of days now before I can pass the buck to Chris to do all the hard work!

One for Smellybeard. The Klomfass RT1 - the first Atlantic - had deformable structures from the start. Also, it was meant to go to the USA at the end of '76 according to a Motoring News footnote. Also, my comment on the car's accident may be overstating it. Klomfass bends it quite badly in the season, but is back racing it, and finishes the last race of 76 in 2nd place with it. Come 1977 he's racing a March so maybe it did go intact to the US.

Phoenix Park time.

We had a few nice cars out yesterday. RT1/9, a former winner in the hands of David Kennedy was one of them.

I've stuck a few pictures from the Park up on my website -
www.dendra.net/PPK2003/

Dave.

More on the Mystery RT1...

It appears that that this RT1 is the Mike Freberg car (or part thereof). Has anyone any ideas what it was before that? Was it seriously pranged at any stage?

Did CanAm bodies do the rounds on different chassis?

Also, looking at RT1/9 over the weekend, I spotted some more differences. The rere crossmember is an almost identical casting but is machined differently for the FG box.

Dave.

Dave

Why do you think it was the Freberg car? I was in contact with his ex-mechanic at one time and may be able to find out more.

Allen

Atlantic RT1s, where did the Mike Catlow car come from. Always very well turned out in vivid green, it raced in England in 1980-81. Did he get it new, or was it ex-F2/Atlantic. Similar was the Ian Briggs car, I think this was the ex-Eden/Rouff/Wilds F2 car.

I used to hang go racing occasionally with Kim Mather at that time, that yellow Eden Ralt was his main opposition in Aurora '78. Kim was usually faster in practice, not so reliable in races. I suppose the Wilds Ralt was run by a slightly bigger team, with a little more resouce.

Dan Rear

The Wilds RT1-72 went to Ian Briggs in '79. I haven't traced it after that (partly because I haven't done UK 1980 races at all yet). However, I did make a start on '81. The Catlow RT1 is described as ex Rob Turnbull in 1980, so presumably a hillclimb car. I think Turnbull was using this in '79 and I guess it might be the ex McDowell car
RT1-2 ex Larry Perkins.
The other interesting British RT1 is that of Richard Hawkins in 1981. This is an ex Theodore Racing car, winner of Macau in '76 and '79 so it must be RT1-9. Wonder where it went post Hawkins.

Chris

I vaguely recall the Turnbull car as being new to him for the hills in 1976-77(?). The MacDowell car was one of the very early ones I think, but now you mention it I think you're right, Catlow's was ex-Turnbull. Didn't the MacDowell one become the Coogar, that our Irish friend used to own.

I'd forgotten the Hawkins Ralt, quite old for '81, but he wnat well as I remember, pretty fast chap in FF and F3 in the mid-70s.

Did the Bernard Hunter RT1 go to NZ after David Duffield ?

Dan

The Hunter RT1-145 went off to Australia for Charlie O'Brien and then Ron Barnacle. I think it's still there.

The McDowell RT1 was definitely ex Larrykins RT1 the Euro championship winning car RT1-2.

Chris/David,
Ralt RT1 no 145 was defintely ex Bernard Hunter/David Duffield. UK based in 79-80, then downunder. It was new in early 79 when Ralt were about to introduce the RT2-RT5 range, so I guess this was one of the very last RT1s sold. Btw what was the brand new RT4 Mallock had at the very last 79 UK meeting at Brands? Where did it go after, and was it the Hope Scott/Leslie car for 1980, or maybe the Lawler one? Or did it go out of the UK?

I understood RT1 -88 was actually purchased and rebuilt by millen himself and raced at historic events. Repainted in the green Chardon colours. May have been advertised for sale in the USA 2002.

Sorry Dan,
I've had my eye off the ball. Will check tomorrow, along with the Bill Gowdy query from the RT1 thread.

Rather belated response to the summer discussion of a Ralt RT1 supposedly with CanAm/Cicale/BuickV6 history.

As Allen mentioned that was Mike Freberg's #33 car in hte CanAm series. It originally ran with a Hart engine and then the V6 - according to entry lists. Any reference to Cicale bodies should be viewed with caution - seems to me that almost any full width body with almost any ground effect tunnels was called a Cicale.

As for the pics posted showing the car in Ireland in May 2003 - do cars actually compete in such rough condition? The body looked nicelt painted but the chassis looks terrible. Also The "big brakes" refered to were normal on slightly later Atlantics. My 1976 Lola T460 originally came with such calipers and vented rotors but by the time I bought it it had AS calipers and solid rotors as used by RT1s - obviously swapped at some stage. In fact the Hewland FT200 is marked Ralt RT1 - wonder if my Lola and the Freberg Ralt swapped gearboxes and brakes at some time??? Just kidding - but it could have happened.

Richard

Did you get anywhere with the Gowdy RT1 and the Tommy Reid Atlantic Marches ???

Dan

On Irish RT1s, Alo had 2 I believe. The ex-Cheever F2 car that he raced a couple of times only in 78 with a Hart engine. He then got the Lola T760 for '79, didn't like it. From early 80 to mid 80, when he got the RT4, he had the ex-Mallock Atlantic RT1, I think an ex-Italian F2 chassis. I think, Richard/Dave will know better, this went to Tom O'Leary after. So what happened to the ex-Cheever 76-77 car ??

Dan,
Yes Bill Gowdy is on holiday at present but I will speak to him (hopefully) over the w/e. Regarding Tommys cars, I think I will have to pay a visit......

RE. The Ralt RT1 supposedly with CanAm/Cicale/BuickV6 history.

Yeah... It looks a bit rough. Those photographs were taken on it's first outing this century! The B42 nose was as a result of contact that morning. Good RT1 FA noses are hard to come by at the moment. A lot of work has been done on it since.

Again, any ideas what it was before it was can-amalized? Did Mike Freberg build it or buy it complete?

David.

David

We don't know for sure it was the Freberg car - that speculation based on the V6 engine.

Allen

It is the Freberg car.

Dave.

Dave

OK - calling it "speculation" was perhaps overdoing my reservations and I apologise if that caused offence. However, I do not believe the identification is conclusive and I would urge caution on your part. You could spend many hours chasing the Freberg car's origins only to find out it isn't your car.

I have a picture somwhere of a yellow Cougar-Ralt doing the same thing...

Dave.

Dave, good pictures, but I'm not sure about the history of that German RT1. Did Piquet, de Cesaris, EJ all have the same F3 car anyone ??

That German RT1

Piquet had at least three RT1s
May 77 he gets the first one when AFMP Euroracing folds
This car is then sold in 78 to Guido Pardini.
This car is one of the following 1977 chassis, all sold via Chuck McCarthy in Italy, where Piquet was then based.
41; 43; 44; 46; 47; 55 [my favourite]; 60; 61; 62; 63
Unless Piquet bought two 1977 cars I don't see how one can go to de Cesaris, who only raced Ralts in 78.

In 1978 he gets at least one new car in March.
In July he gets chassis 131 new for the British GP meeting
In 1978 one of these cars goes to Fernando Jorge

Chris

Chris, interesting on the F3 RT1s, didn't the second Piquet car go to Jorge in 79 rather than 78 ?? I assume the Jorge car was the original not 131, as I believe Gomm has the latter and still uses it. There was a good article in Motorsport a while ago on this car, ie 131.

Do we really want to get into F3 cars aswell, could be an ever bigger nightmare tahn FAts/F2s !!

Dan

As I'm now (belatedly) registered on Ten Tenths, I thought I'd put in an appearance. The interest in my F.Atlantic notes just shows that schoolboy scribblings do sometimes come in handy.....even if it is 30 years later.

I also have a copy of a Ralt Chassis listing (mostly complete) from 1978 to 1989

Hi Adam

It's good to see you here. Your Ralt chassis listing: didn't you tell me that was from the Autosport list plus later observations or is it from Ralt? I have always wanted to know which RT1 Tony Cicale bought for Can-Am.

Allen,

Re. the Ralt listing, yes I did mention the Autosport list, but this is a full listing from Ralt records 1978 to 89 (which I'd completely forgotten I'd got)

Allen,

Cicale bought two Ralt RT1s :-

RT1-94 delivered in Jan. 1978
RT1-149 delivered in about Feb 1979

Does this fit?

ADAM

FANTASTIC!!! :beer:

Anything delivered to James Truman or Red Roof Inns in early 1980? Maybe one to Richard Guider late 1979 or early 1980? Any other oddly late RT1s to the US?

Must resist asking you about all the RT2s. At least until I get home!

Many thanks

Allen

Allen,

Other than the 2 cars to Cicale, everything for US/Canada went to Brian Robertson, and teams/drivers are only mentioned in about 1/3 of cases.
I've just noticed, however, that there WAS a late RT1 (156)sent to Robertson in kit form, but it looks like it's listed as an F. Atlantic.

Adam

Welcome. Perhaps we could post the RT1 sales records on a new thread?
I have a copy of the Autosport list [1-70] with some histories worked out for 1975-80. The problem is all the agency sales via McCarthy and Robertson, but doubtless we could solve some of those.

Chris,

Yes, I'll start an RT1 thread listing what I have.

I'll use the Autosport list up to c/no 70, then what I have (very few) for 71 to 93, then the Ralt list from c/no 94.

BTW the last RT1 was -167 to Robertson so we're looking at a list of 160 or so.

Here is a starting list of Ralt RT1s based on :-
1) The list published in Autosport 31st March 1977 (1-70)
2) My (few) contemporary notes (71-93)
3) Ralt Chassis listing (94-167)

The headings used relate to the format of the Ralt chassis listing. Some of this data is therefore not shown for pre no. 94 chassis.

C/no Customer Driver Type Engine Colour Job Closed
1 R Marazzi (I) F3 Ford t/c 1975
to O Pedersoli F3
2 Works (UK) Perkins F3 Ford t/c 1975
to MacDowell H/c
3 (UK) Perkins F3 Ford t/c 1975
4 Lochmann(D)Schafer F3 BMW 1975
5 John Macdonald(HK) F At Hart BDA 1975
6 Ameropean Walters F At Hart BDA 1975
7 J Wingfield (UK) F2 Swindon BDX 1975
8 Lochmann KottulinksyF2 BMW 1975
9 Yip (HK) SchuppanF2 Hart 420R 1975
10 Pinto(SA) KlomfassF At Swindon BDA 1975
11 Ameropean C Mead F At Hart BDA 1976
12 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1976
13 NOT USED
14 E Salminen (S) F3 Toyota 1976
15 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1976
16 Ockley (UK) I Flux F3 Toyota 1976
17 O Vejlund (Sw) F3 Ford t/c 1976
to H. Spellerberg F3
18 Thyrring (DK/NL) F3 Toyota 1976
to F&S(NL) B Hayje F3
to Don Farthing F3
19 W Klein (D) F3 BMW 1976
20 S Alriksson (S) F3 Toyota 1976
to P Hakan F3
21 Schock (A) F3 BMW 1976
22 P Bernasconi (UK) F3 Toyota 1976
23 Schafer (D) F3 BMW 1976
24 McCarty (I) F3 Ford t/c 1976
25 Schafer (D) F3 Toyota 1976
26 Thyrring (DK/NL) F3 Toyota 1976
27 McCarty (I)Mantova F3 Toyota 1976
28 L Pavesi (I) F2 Hart 420R 1976
29 G Brabham (UK) F3 Toyota 1976
30 Robertson(C/US)RoosF At Hart BDA 1976
31 P Bardinon (F) F3 Toyota 1976
to D Kennedy (UK) F3
32 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1976
33 Robertson C Hill F At Hart BDA 1976
34 Robertson McMillanF At Hart BDA 1976
35 Project 4 Cheever F2 Hart 420R 1976
36 Robertson F At Hart BDA 1976
37 T Palm (S) F3 Toyota 1976
38 N Hutter (CH) F3 Toyota 1976
39 B Allison (NZ) F At Hart BDA 1976
40 Bovy (B) F3 Toyota 1977
41 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
42 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
43 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
44 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
45 Schock (A) F3 BMW 1977
46 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
47 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
48 Schafer (D)W LocherF3 BMW 1977
49 Schafer (D)Schafer F3 Toyota 1977
50 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
51 VB Racing(S)NielsonF3 Toyota 1977
52 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1977
53 Debais (F) F Libre BMW 1977
54 P Silverstone (UK) F3 Toyota 1977
55 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
56 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1977
57 Risi(E)L CanomanuelF3 Toyota 1977
58 Risi(E)Villacieros F3 Toyota 1977
59 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
60 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
61 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
62 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
63 McCarty (I)N PiquetF3 Toyota 1977
64 Project 4 Cheever F2 BMW 1977
65 Everest BrancatelliF2 Ferrari 1977
66 Everest L Leoni F2 Ferrari 1977
67 Project 4 Hoffmann F2 BMW 1977
68 Project 4 H Stuck F2 BMW 1977
69 Everest F2 Ferrari 1977
70 J Timken K Whitney FC Cosworth BDA 1977
71 1977
72 G Eden (UK)T Rouff F2 Ford 1977
73 1977
74 1977
75 1977
76 M Pati F3 Toyota 1977
77 de Angelis F3 Toyota 1977
78 1977
79 1977
80 1977
81 1977
82 F Jorge/ R Manzoni F3 Toyota 1977
83 1977
84 1977
85 1977
86 1977
87 Nestov A Bakst F2 BMW 1977
88 1977?
89 1977?
90 1977?
91 1977?
92 1977?
93 1977?

94 )onwards to follow.....

ADAM

Here is part two of the Ralt RT1 listing, taken from the Ralt chassis records....

Data relates to :-
C/no,Customer/Driver,Type(F3 etc),Engine,Colour,Date Job Closed.
Apologies - I don't seem to have mastered tabulating input.

94 Cicale (Blank) F2 420S N/A 4.2.78
95 Robertson Jensen FAt BDN White 8.2.78
96 RobertsonTeam Cogan FAt BDN White 7.2.78
97 McCarty M Baldi F3 Toyota Red/White 23.2.78
98 Wilson Wilson F3 Toyota Black 24.2.78
99 Schafer Cassani F2 BMW Orange 22.3.78
100 Hachke? Lechner F3 Toyota Blue 8.2.78
101 Heavens Luyendijk F3 Toyota White 28.4.78
102 Ansermoz Rochat F3 Toyota Red 26.1.78
103 McCarty Valtelina/Gruet F3ToyotaBlue 14.3.78
104 Heavens Lammers F3 Toyota White 10.2.78
105 Heavens Rothengatter F3 Toyota White 16.2.78
106 Robertson Pierre/MeadFAtBDN Blue/White 16.3.78
107 RobertsonBill ScottFSVeeSmith Black 22.2.78
108 RobertsonBill ScottFSVee(Blank) Blue 22.2.78
109 RobertsonPierre/RahalFAtBDN Blue 27.2.78
110 SvenssonSvenssonF3 Toyota Red 22.3.78
111 Robertson Team Car FAt BDN White 3.3.78
112 McCarty Piquet F3 Toyota Yellow 4.3.78
113 Robertson Bachet?FSVee (Blank) White 8.3.78
114 Robertson HodgonFSVee (Blank) White 8.3.78
115 Nielson (Blank) F3 Toyota Teak 15.3.78
116 Scott Scott F3 Toyota Blue 17.3.78
117 Schafer Guttee FSVee Schrick White 18.3.78
118 Robertson(Blank)FSVee (Blank) White 20.3.78
119 Robertson Duclos?FAt BDN Black 24.4.78
120 Gowdy Gowdy FAt BDN Orange 19.4.78
121 AnsermozAnsermozF3 Toyota Blue 31.3.78
122 Schafer Schafer F3 BMW White 30.3.78
123 Thyrring ThyrringF3 Toyota White/Red 12.4.78
124 McCarty PedersoliF3 (Blank) Orange/Blue 8.4.78
125 Robertson Giffin FSVee (Blank) Orange 13.4.78
126 Svensson Carlborg F3 Toyota Green/White 28.4.78
127 Robertson Rick Bell FAt BDN Red 2.5.78
128 Robertson Follat? FAt BDN Blue 9.5.78
129 Robertson Pierre/? FAt BDN Blue/White 18.5.78
130 Heavens Spare Car F3 Toyota (Blank) 26.4.78
131 Piquet Spare Car F3 (Blank) Yellow 1.6.78
132 Robertson Team FAt BDN White 23.5.78
133 Schafer Schafer FSVee Heidegger Black 5.6.78
134 Hollamby Hollamby FSVee Judd Yellow 1.6.78
135 Robertson (Blank)FAt BDN White 25.6.78
136 Robertson (Blank)FAt BDN White/Blue 4.8.78
137 Schafer Wisskirchen F3 Toyota Red 21.7.78
138 Schafer (Blank) F3 Toyota Black 13.7.78
139 Silverstone (Blank)F3 Toyota White/Red 7.8.78
140 Brabham Brabham FSVee Judd White 4.9.78
141 Robertson(Blank)FSVee (Blank) White/Black 6.9.78
142 Robertson(Blank)FSVee (Blank) White 4.12.78
143 Fleck (Blank) FSVee (Blank) Red 30.11.78
144 Penske (Blank) FSVee (Blank) Red 8.12.78
145 Hunter Hunter FAt BDN Blue 7.12.78
146 Robertson(Blank)FAt BDN White 5.12.78
147 Robertson Gl…? FAt BDN White 12.1.79
148 Robertson(Blank)FAt BDN Green 26.1.79
149 Cicale F2 (Blank) N/A 22.2.79
150 Robertson(Blank)FAt BDN Blue 6.3.79
151 Robertson(Blank)FSVee Judd White 9.3.79
152 (RT2)
153 (RT2)
154 (RT2)
155 (RT3)
156 Robertson(Kit Form)FAt BDN? Black 22.5.79
157 Nielson (Blank) FSVee Judd Red/White 25.4.79
158 Robertson(Blank)FSVee Judd Red 1.6.79
159 Schafer Guttee FSVee Schrick Green 17.5.79
160 (RT3)
161 Robertson MexicanFSVee Judd Blue 15.6.79
162 (RT4)
163 Robertson McMillan FSVee Judd Blue/White 3.7.79
164 Robertson (Blank)FAt BDN Yellow 12.6.79
165 Robertson (Blank)FAt BDN Black 24.7.79
166 (RT3)
167 Robertson (Blank)FAt BDN Red (Blank)

Hopefully not too many transcription errors have crept in.

ADAM

Adam, thats brilliant thanks !! How many of these do we know the whereabouts now ??

Originally posted by Adam Ferrington
Apologies - I don't seem to have mastered tabulating input. Adam

If you edit that post and put CODE tags (in square brackets) around the table, you get your intended effect:


94 Cicale (Blank) F2 420S N/A 4.2.78
95 Robertson Jensen FAt BDN White 8.2.78
96 RobertsonTeam Cogan FAt BDN White 7.2.78
His the quote button on this post if you're not sure what I mean.

Allen

Actually - not as easy as I suggested. Here's a merged list after I fiddled with it:


C/noCustomer Driver Type Engine Colour Job CloseComments
1 R Marazzi (I) F3 Ford t/c 1975 to O Pedersoli F3
2 Works (UK) Perkins F3 Ford t/c 1975 to MacDowell H/c
3 (UK) Perkins F3 Ford t/c 1975
4 Lochmann(D) Schafer F3 BMW 1975
5 John Macdonald (HK) F At Hart BDA 1975
6 Ameropean Walters F At Hart BDA 1975
7 J Wingfield (UK) F2 Swindon BDX 1975
8 Lochmann Kottulinksy F2 BMW 1975
9 Yip (HK) Schuppan F2 Hart 420R 1975
10 Pinto (SA) Klomfass F At Swindon BDA 1975
11 Ameropean C Mead F At Hart BDA 1976
12 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1976
13 NOT USED
14 E Salminen (S) F3 Toyota 1976
15 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1976
16 Ockley (UK) I Flux F3 Toyota 1976
17 O Vejlund (Sw) F3 Ford t/c 1976 to H. Spellerberg F3
18 Thyrring (DK/NL) F3 Toyota 1976 to F&S(NL) B Hayje F3; to Don Farthing F3
19 W Klein (D) F3 BMW 1976
20 S Alriksson (S) F3 Toyota 1976 to P Hakan F3
21 Schock (A) F3 BMW 1976
22 P Bernasconi (UK) F3 Toyota 1976
23 Schafer (D) F3 BMW 1976
24 McCarty (I) F3 Ford t/c 1976
25 Schafer (D) F3 Toyota 1976
26 Thyrring (DK/NL) F3 Toyota 1976
27 McCarty (I) Mantova F3 Toyota 1976
28 L Pavesi (I) F2 Hart 420R 1976
29 G Brabham (UK) F3 Toyota 1976
30 Robertson(C/US) Roos F At Hart BDA 1976
31 P Bardinon (F) F3 Toyota 1976 to D Kennedy (UK) F3
32 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1976
33 Robertson C Hill F At Hart BDA 1976
34 Robertson McMillan F At Hart BDA 1976
35 Project 4 Cheever F2 Hart 420R 1976
36 Robertson F At Hart BDA 1976
37 T Palm (S) F3 Toyota 1976
38 N Hutter (CH) F3 Toyota 1976
39 B Allison (NZ) F At Hart BDA 1976
40 Bovy (B) F3 Toyota 1977
41 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
42 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
43 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
44 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
45 Schock (A) F3 BMW 1977
46 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
47 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
48 Schafer (D) W Locher F3 BMW 1977
49 Schafer (D) Schafer F3 Toyota 1977
50 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
51 VB Racing(S) Nielson F3 Toyota 1977
52 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1977
53 Debais (F) F Libre BMW 1977
54 P Silverstone (UK) F3 Toyota 1977
55 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
56 Svensson (S) F3 Toyota 1977
57 Risi(E) L Canomanuel F3 Toyota 1977
58 Risi(E) Villacieros F3 Toyota 1977
59 Ansermoz (CH) F3 Toyota 1977
60 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
61 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
62 McCarty (I) F3 Toyota 1977
63 McCarty (I) N Piquet F3 Toyota 1977
64 Project 4 Cheever F2 BMW 1977
65 Everest Brancatelli F2 Ferrari 1977
66 Everest L Leoni F2 Ferrari 1977
67 Project 4 Hoffmann F2 BMW 1977
68 Project 4 H Stuck F2 BMW 1977
69 Everest F2 Ferrari 1977
70 J Timken K Whitney FC Cosworth BDA 1977
71 1977
72 G Eden (UK) T Rouff F2 Ford 1977
73 1977
74 1977
75 1977
76 M Pati F3 Toyota 1977
77 de Angelis F3 Toyota 1977
78 1977
79 1977
80 1977
81 1977
82 F Jorge R Manzoni F3 Toyota 1977
83 1977
84 1977
85 1977
86 1977
87 Nestov A Bakst F2 BMW 1977
88 1977?
89 1977?
90 1977?
91 1977?
92 1977?
93 1977?

C/noCustomer Driver Type Engine Colour Job CloseComments
94 Cicale (Blank) "F2" 420S N/A 4.2.78
95 Robertson Jensen FAt BDN White 8.2.78
96 Robertson Team Cogan FAt BDN White 7.2.78
97 McCarty M Baldi F3 Toyota Red/White 23.2.78
98 Wilson Wilson F3 Toyota Black 24.2.78
99 Schafer Cassani F2 BMW Orange 22.3.78
100 Hachke? Lechner F3 Toyota Blue 8.2.78
101 Heavens Luyendijk F3 Toyota White 28.4.78
102 Ansermoz Rochat F3 Toyota Red 26.1.78
103 McCarty Valtelina/Gruet F3 Toyota Blue 14.3.78
104 Heavens Lammers F3 Toyota White 10.2.78
105 Heavens Rothengatter F3 Toyota White 16.2.78
106 Robertson Pierre/Mead FAt BDN Blue/White 16.3.78
107 Robertson Bill Scott FSVee Smith Black 22.2.78
108 Robertson Bill Scott FSVee (Blank) Blue 22.2.78
109 Robertson Pierre/Rahal FAt BDN Blue 27.2.78
110 Svensson Svensson F3 Toyota Red 22.3.78
111 Robertson Team Car FAt BDN White 3.3.78
112 McCarty Piquet F3 Toyota Yellow 4.3.78
113 Robertson Bachet? FSVee (Blank) White 8.3.78
114 Robertson Hodgon FSVee (Blank) White 8.3.78
115 Nielson (Blank) F3 Toyota Teak 15.3.78
116 Scott Scott F3 Toyota Blue 17.3.78
117 Schafer Guttee FSVee Schrick White 18.3.78
118 Robertson (Blank) FSVee (Blank) White 20.3.78
119 Robertson Duclos? FAt BDN Black 24.4.78
120 Gowdy Gowdy FAt BDN Orange 19.4.78
121 Ansermoz Ansermoz F3 Toyota Blue 31.3.78
122 Schafer Schafer F3 BMW White 30.3.78
123 Thyrring Thyrring F3 Toyota White/Red 12.4.78
124 McCarty Pedersoli F3 (Blank) Orange/Blue 8.4.78
125 Robertson Giffin FSVee (Blank) Orange 13.4.78
126 Svensson Carlborg F3 Toyota Green/White 28.4.78
127 Robertson Rick Bell FAt BDN Red 2.5.78
128 Robertson Follat? FAt BDN Blue 9.5.78
129 Robertson Pierre/? FAt BDN Blue/White 18.5.78
130 Heavens Spare Car F3 Toyota (Blank) 26.4.78
131 Piquet Spare Car F3 (Blank) Yellow 1.6.78
132 Robertson Team FAt BDN White 23.5.78
133 Schafer Schafer FSVee Heidegger Black 5.6.78
134 Hollamby Hollamby FSVee Judd Yellow 1.6.78
135 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN White 25.6.78
136 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN White/Blue 4.8.78
137 Schafer Wisskirchen F3 Toyota Red 21.7.78
138 Schafer (Blank) F3 Toyota Black 13.7.78
139 Silverstone (Blank) F3 Toyota White/Red 7.8.78
140 Brabham Brabham FSVee Judd White 4.9.78
141 Robertson (Blank) FSVee (Blank) White/Black 6.9.78
142 Robertson (Blank) FSVee (Blank) White 4.12.78
143 Fleck (Blank) FSVee (Blank) Red 30.11.78
144 Penske (Blank) FSVee (Blank) Red 8.12.78
145 Hunter Hunter FAt BDN Blue 7.12.78
146 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN White 5.12.78
147 Robertson Gl…? FAt BDN White 12.1.79
148 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN Green 26.1.79
149 Cicale "F2" (Blank) N/A 22.2.79
150 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN Blue 6.3.79
151 Robertson (Blank) FSVee Judd White 9.3.79
152 (RT2)
153 (RT2)
154 (RT2)
155 (RT3)
156 Robertson (Kit Form) FAt BDN? Black 22.5.79
157 Nielson (Blank) FSVee Judd Red/White 25.4.79
158 Robertson (Blank) FSVee Judd Red 1.6.79
159 Schafer Guttee FSVee Schrick Green 17.5.79
160 (RT3)
161 Robertson Mexican FSVee Judd Blue 15.6.79
162 (RT4)
163 Robertson McMillan FSVee Judd Blue/White 3.7.79
164 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN Yellow 12.6.79
165 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN Black 24.7.79
166 (RT3)
167 Robertson (Blank) FAt BDN Red (Blank)

I can only assume that the early part of these lists gives the country of the car's destination, not the country of the purchaser. I remember Paul Bernasconi as a fairly abrasive Aussie.
I don't know if he visits TenTenths, but if he does, his face would have been a picture on reading "22 P Bernasconi (UK)"

36 was the FAt car McMillan took to NZ 1976, and thought to be the one he’d previously raced in N America (when Cogan drove 34)

51 Nilsson F3 (not Nielson)

56 Olofsson F3

59 Wettstein

73 FAt raced by Hugh Owen NZ 1978 (believed ex-US)

88 Robertson FAt > Steve Millen in NZ 1980

91 Perkins FAt in NZ 1979 (later John Smith)

119 described by a later seller as ex-Rahal

Just seen the cirrus note
That'll be the car Bernasconi raced in the UK
And #39 was delivered to his countryman Bruce Allison in New Zealand

Allen,

Many thanks for tabulating my data, as I hit upon the problem of editing my post (only allowed within 10 mins of posting).

Cirrus.....yes, the country quoted is the country of the car's destination or that of the agent.

I'll be off line for a week or so, so if any entries require clarification I'll deal with when I return.

ADAM

Hi
Does any body know when Ralts changed their rear engern frame setup from three rods each side going from the tub and attached to the bottom of a frame that went round the gear box to having the engern frames attaching to a cross member above the gearbox?
Regards Richard Trott

RT1-31 was kept as a works rent a car. Kennedy only used it at British GP meeting in 1977

RT1-73 which went to Hugh Owen is described as ex Craig Hill [1977] car in US/Canadian Atlantic

RT1-128 would be Mike Follett who did a fullish season on it in 1978 N.American series.
RT1-119 would be Ken Duclos who also did that.

Whilst this is not an RT3 thread, would this be correct
155 Salazar
160 Rob Wilson
166 Wyatt Stanley?

I'm very curious about the RT4-162. Did this ever race in 78? If so where? I don't have an RT4 in N.America until Danny Sullivan appears in one late season in 79. This build record suggests that all the RT1s that dominate the 79 season in N.America were also mostly built 78 or earlier.

Chris

Chris, I suspect -155 is the Salazar car. We're still ,unsure, I think, how many other RT3s were made in 79, ISTR one being in Italy, maybe one with Schafer in Germany too. These may have been 160 and 166, as I don't think Wilson got his much before Spring 80, and Stanley slightly after that.

On RT4s, I guess -162 was the first one, that Ray M raced late in 79 at Brands, and won. I wonder whether this is the one you have Sullivan in also late in 79 ? Perhaps Ray shook it down prior to going to the US.

Extending some of those RT1 histories

RT1-22 Mr Bernasconi till end 78 then Eliseo Salazar until his RT4 arrived in 1979

RT1-29 Kept by Geoff Brabham until end 78, then 1979 Hub of the Universe Racing rent-a-car for Osamu Hatagawa

RT1-104 after Lammers, 1978. 1979 to Wyatt Stanley; 1980 Gerry Amato, then mid 1981 to Jeff Williams

RT1-139 after Ken Silverstone, 1978, 1979 to Duncan Bain, then 1980 Terry Gray [AND WHY DID NO ONE EVER GIVE HIM A DECENT DRIVE AFTER FF?]


Chris

http://img25.exs.cx/img25/1856/rt1.jpg

Richard, which car is this, looks like an F3 ??

It's an F3 RT1 Novamotor-Toyota probably 1978 I restored about 18 years ago I doubt if I still have a record of the chassis no .

Hi
The RALT in the photos has the later rear end that picks up on a cross member above the gearbox but my RT1 has the older engern frame that conects onto the bottom of a square frame that goes round the gear box. My interest is that I do not know the chassi number of my car so I am trying to put a rough date to it by trying to find out when Ralts changed the set up. It is supposed to be chassi number 110 and a build date in 1978 but I am not so sure. Anyway it goes ok as I won the Classic F3 race in it at Silverstone five weeks ago and I am out in it at Brands this weekend.
Regards Richard Trott

Richard T, great to have you posting on here. I'm sure you've many stories to tell of your racing in the late 70s/early 80s. I recall you annilhated the FF2000 fields in 1980, and went pretty well in F3 the next year, with, I believe, little money.

Any good tales you can tell us 'armchair fans'.

Alright, starting with 1975:

I was most surprised to find Roberto Marazzi as the customer of chassis '1' - not that I doubt he owned it, but surely that must've been the Larry Perkins car from the spring races that year!???

My data for 1975 is quite limited, e.g. I only have the top 6 of most Italian races, and there Marazzi doesn't show up until Sep 14 at Casale - which doesn't say much, but...

Here's my understanding (and hypothesis): Larry P. raced the first car (with Nova-Ford) at Thruxton (Mar 31), Silverstone (Apr 27), Monte Carlo (May 10), Thruxton (May 26) and Monza (Jun 29), possibly other races too. Terry P. had the second car (also Nova-Ford) at the April and May meetings, but never actually started an event. Luigino Grassi hired his car for Monza, and recorded Fastest Lap in this race, while Larry won.

Apparently, Larry then made a trip to Novara and returned to England with a Nova-Toyota - sources are split on this, some crediting his later appearances in 1975 to Ford, some to Toyota, and others again simply to Novamotor (which does not help at all!). I have looked hard at available photographs to try to identify the engine, but to no avail. The only differences I have spotted is that his car had an engine cover and a black rear view mirror on the left side from the British GP meeting onwards, as opposed to the regular chrome ones on the right side and on both sides of his brother's car and his early season mount.

Again, this may be a red herring, but my theory goes: Larry sold his car to Marazzi at Monza, returned to England with the Toyota which was installed in chassis '3'. Terry, meanwhile, continued in car '2' and started to rack up results as well. Opinions?

Chassis '4' appeared for the first time at Kassel (Aug 17) and then five more times in German races that year, always with BMW and Bertram Schäfer. This car was also used by Schäfer in early '76 (Nürburgring, Zandvoort, Trier and possibly Berlin), then by Detlef Schmickler from May 29 onwards, when Schäfer had taken delivery of his new car. Not sure what happened to it afterwards, possibilities include Swiss driver Philipp Müller and Germans Werner Fischer and Thomas von Löwis of Menar - but this is two years hence, so we'll get back to this later.

Hi Dan
Yes, I am that Richard Trott and I do have many tales although I might boor you all. At Brands on Saterday I quolified 2nd but went through the gravel at Padock on the first lap, breaking my splitter and thus having understeer, but I had fun anyway. If any of you have any unanswered questions about Ralts you could always ask James Osier (he worked for Ralt on the office side.) He now workes for Silverstone.
Sorry about the speling. Is there a spell check.
Regards
Richard Trott

Richard - I had a look at your car in the assembly area before the race. To me it looks like a 1977 car. I've looked at a few contemporary pictures, and it would appear that the different rear end may have been introduced for the 1978 season. I've got a picture of Piquet in August 1977 (before he was based at the factory) with "your" rear end setup. I've emailed Ron Tauranac, to see if he can shed any light on it (he probably can't!). I used to work at "The Rat Factory" in the late seventies and remember James Ogier in charge of the stores. I had no idea he worked for Silverstone.

The later rear end with the inboard pickups for the radius rods meant that the whole rear suspension worked more like a twin wishbone arrangement with the pickups parallel to he centreline of the car. The result was greatly improved traction, and the need to run a much softer rear ARB (although yours appears to be set pretty soft anyway).

During 1978, a new front suspension arrangement with a short top wishbone brought further inprovements, working the tyres better, and keeping them up to temperature. It's alvays surprised me that the RT1 was dropped like a stone in 1979, having dominated the season in 1978. I've often thought that a driver who was prepared to commit to an RT1 for '79 would have got a great deal of help from Ron, and would probably have got first shout for an RT3, which, although it needed some development, looked like a winner as soon as I saw it on the drawing board.

Hi cirrus
Thank you for the information. It is very helpfull.If you are at a race sometime come over and have a chat!
Regards
Richard Trott

Bill Gowd - now half the Radical agency for Ireland ! - had one of the first FAt Ralt RT1 chassis which, if memory serves was well smacked on its first Kirkistown outing, which must have been in '75.

Richard, I think Gowdy's RT1 was a little later than 75, perhaps 1977 or even 78.

Bill Gowdy's RT1 is shown in the Ralt build records as chassis 120, delivered April 1978.

Chris

Picking up on an item earlier on here, the Alo RT1 F2 car anyone ? I mean the ex-Cheever 76 car, NOT the ex-Mallock FAt car. Seems to have disappeared after Alo's 2 AFX outings in mid-78.

Hi
I ran Gary Gibson at Macow and he impressed me. He listened rather then thinking he knew everything.


Richard, if you're still on this thread, do you know what happened to Gary ? I used to know one of his Formula Atlantic mechanics, Terry Wilkinson, in the early 1980s when I began kart racing. I have very vague recollections of Gary being killed in a road car accident in Dublin in the mid-1980s, but could be totally wrong. Obviously if I am, I hope I've not caused anyone offence.

Anyone remember the Equipo Nacional Espanol F3 Ralts during the 79/80 seasons? I believe they were based at Roger Heavens base but run by their own guys.

The reason for the question is that I used to help Colin Thorpe run the Phil Silverstone Ralt RT1 (and later the Argo JM6 together with Gerry Amato in the ex Stephen South March 773) and we used to work very closely with the Spanish Team especially their Spanish mechanic Abby and team manager Lois, I believe. Jorge Caton was one driver who was quite quick most of the time but my memory fails me with the second driver may have been Pedro Nogues?

Abby was brilliant, couldn't hardly speak a word of English initially, I couldn't speak a word of Spanish but we got on famously. The Spanish added sidepods to their cars with sliding skirts which were constantly being improved throughout the season with Colin claiming the discarded ones for Phils RT1!

We had a great couple of seasons with them over here - anyone know what happen to the cars or indeed the Spanish Dodge transporter and with Jorge or Abby?

I am sure Richard T will remember them?

Is Gerry Amato still around? I believe he was based in Chistlehurst when we used to run him?

Terry

Jorge Caton was one driver who was quite quick most of the time but my memory fails me with the second driver may have been Pedro Nogues?

It's finally come back to me - the second Equipo Nacional Espanol team driver was Fermin Velez, while Pere Nogues drove another independent Ralt RT1 during 79 then moved on to an Argo for 1980 (certainly drove one at Monaco in 80).

Terry

Terry, I think the Equipo Nacional... RT1s were out from late 77 thru' 78. I saw them at Donington in Oct 77, with Luis Canomauel, and Juan Villacieros. I don't think they raced those cars after that.

Dan,

I'm not 100% sure but I believe Luis became Team Manager in 78 when Jorge Caton and Fermin Velez took over driving duties, (I incorrectly spelled it as Lois in my earlier post) together with Abby as their chief engineer and some part-time help to assist at weekends. The extract below was taken from the 1979 Silverstone International Trophy entry list.


Formula 3
Vandervell British Formula 3 Championship March 25th 1979
20 laps - 94.36 kms

18 33 Phil Silverstone, GB Welwyn Discount Tyres and Exhaust Centres Ralt RT1 - To
19 34 Pere Nogues, E Pere Nogues Ralt RT1 - Toyota
20 36 Jorge Caton, E Equipo Nacional Español Ralt RT1 - Toyota/Novamotor
21 37 Fermin Velez, E Equipo Nacional Español Ralt RT1 - Toyota/Novamotor


In addition the following link provides a full Ralt history including a breakdown of drivers by year and model; http://www.f3history.co.uk/Manufacturers/Ralt/ralt.htm which may be of interest.

Terry

my name is alain prat and i have RT1 # 21 i race with in french formula 3 classic
i search all information and photos on first owner : walter schock he race in deutchland
and osterreich his team was: racing for vienna and jim russel racing school and also?
fruit of the loom !

just spoken to colin thorpe
he said he worked for spanish team for 2 years
he ran phil silverstone in 1980 in JM6
phil was running rt1 with alan howell

he recalls the spanish team drivers being called for national service
he thinks rt1 `s to south america and 1 car in bits and all parts went to spain via de villota?
He recalls Abby went to spanner Prost at Mclaren then went to Benneton F1 he thinks high up

Driftwood,

Thanks for the update, yes I certainly remember us helping with the Spanish guys for two seasons, which must have been 78-79 as well as running Phil's Ralt during the same period and then in 80 with the Argo. Phil ran with Alan Howell prior to this period in 77 I believe.

Colin's correct about the National Service - I seem to remember for part of one season the drivers were flown in on the Thursday/Friday so they could race then flown back on the Monday to do their bit of National Service.

I had a feeling that Abby did progress to F1, with one of the top teams but couldn't recall where.

Terry

Just a thought about Smellybeard's RT1.
Did we at some point discuss that this car appeared to have had a
central wing mounting, rather than the cross-beam wing support
that RT1s conventionally had?
It's just that the Klomfass car was built with this arrangement, unique
amongst early RT1s, and was, on further research, sold to someone in
LA in late 1976.
Kevin Cogan was based in LA, and in early 77 SCCA races, before Ralt
can have delivered his new car for that season, is using a red RT1 with
a central wing mounting - which in photos looks exactly like that on
Klomfass' car.
And it carried the number 33 [like the Freeberg car.... though this may be
pure coincidence]

Chris

Does Tony Skinner still have the ex-Kennedy Macao RT1 - he certainly did have.

I presume the ex-Kennedy RT1 you mention is the one Richard Hawkins used over here in 1981, we think chassis no. 9.

I spotted these guys in the US who seem to be running two RT1 Atlantics there at the moment. It'd be interesting to see whether either of these is part of the provinence above. And, if you feel you'd like to get back and drive one, they're renting the 1975 RT1 Atlantic for USD4,500 a race.

http://www.powerslidemotorsports.com/htm/vintage_team.htm

2 88 cars in Oz brennan has 1 cant recall the other car owner both came in from the usa

the rt1 car that is mentioned above at powerslide racing was owned by the ozzie but he sold it to the team before he went back to Oz i cant recall if he took the car from oz to usa

The RT1 you are discussing came from Australia in the hands of Peter Mohr , it is from memory chassis 5, I assisted Peter with the rebuild and the car was back in period Cathay Pacific livery .

Bryan.

Can't understand why Peter didn't take the car back to Oz, it would be a rare car there now! RT4's are as common as muck.

I would like to know if the RT1 F2 cars are basically Atlantic cars, as the F3 suspension is same shape but narrower different uprights with slimmer bodywork.

On my never-ending quest to reslove the missing history of the British Sprint Championship I am once again trawling through old Autosport magazines. I spotted an ad in the 10th Novemeber 1977 issue for the following:

Ralt RT1-72 (May 1977) FGA 277 Gearbox; 2.0 Cosworth BDG

It was being sold by Graham Eden Racing. I think this may have been the car that ended up with Jackie Harris in the 80s.

:cool:

Steve, that car was in fact not sold by Eden over the 77-78 winter. They retained it for Mike Wilds in the F2 Aurora division for 78. It then went to Ian Briggs for UK Atlantic in late79 and 1980. May well be the one Jackie Harris had later on, or that could have been the Catlow car, which we think was the ex-Turnbull hillclimber.

My notes say RT1-72 was indeed raced by Mike Wilds and then Ian Briggs, then Jackie Harris from c1986 to c1991. The same notes suggest (repeat, suggest) thatTony Rougg might have been this car's first driver.
To confuse the issue, Jackie Harris also had a second RT1, number unknown, which I believe was an ex-CanAm car with Chevrolet V6 engine

David, the notes are spot-on. The car was first run by Graham Eden for Tony Rouff (was he related to Tony Rougg!!) after their Sana burnt out in early 77. Rouff won at Thruxton in G8 that year, beating sundry F1/F5000s, and generally had a good year in it. Re the Sana, does anyone know what happened to the other chassis, the one Andy Barton had and converted to the Barton JTB3 ? I can't recall seeing it after about 1980.

Chaps

One for you to check against your RT 1 records.

The ex-Luciano Pavesi car from 76 was an F3 car and was powered by an Alfa engine. This car was recently imported from Italy in original condition and sold through the Race Car Warehouse.
It is now owned by Ian Fisher and is due to run in the Classic F3 series in 06.

Matthew

Matthew, the Pavesi car was definitely run as an F2 car from mid-76 into 77, with Hart as I recall. Was it easy to convert to an F3, or did Pavesi have 2 separate cars ?

F2 cars will have wider wishbones ft200 gbox wider rims bigger wheels than f3 car maybe stiffer tub or engine mnts onto tub
cant see anyone on their right mind swapping car around like this

I guess the one Matthew mentions is not the Pavesi car, -28 from Adam's list.

It is not un-common to convert an F3 RT-1 to a "vintage" atlantic or F2 RT-1. Not saying it is appropriate - just not un-common. Not difficult for a decent fab shop with the knowledge of the differences.

The RT-1 of Luciano Pavesi was chassie No 24 started life with a Ford T/C in the back and was converted to take the ALFA power plant later on that year.The F2 car was not converted back to anything during the time i worked at Ralt Italy.

Eldougo

Do you have records of who had other cars consigned via McCarthy's Ralt Italy operation? Know that Mantova had chassis 27, so was 32 [the last 1976 car] Tenani? What/who was chassis 28?
What about in 1977? Were you still there?

Eldougo

Do you have records of who had other cars consigned via McCarthy's Ralt Italy operation? Know that Mantova had chassis 27, so was 32 [the last 1976 car] Tenani? What/who was chassis 28?
What about in 1977? Were you still there?
__________________________________
No i don't have records i was to busy rebuilding the wrecks from each meeting in italy,They sure could make a pile of junk in a short space of time.At any given time in 1977 we would lookafter & run 5 F3 cars per meeting and travel the European F3 and some british F3 meetings,5 people on the team.?? And then F2 in between just to keep me busy.
Chassis 28 was the Hart powered F2 car.
Chassis 27 Mantova.
Chassis 32Tenani ( is a name i have not heard).
1977 i think there was 16 to 18 RT1 racing in Italy and on a Monday we would sell a few more Chassis and parts.I would drive back to UK overnight and get another truck load and be back for the next meeting.It make me feel tied talking about it nOw

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/srwpho/images/6-picture3.gif

Mike MacDowel in the RT1 Hart at Harewood 1976 - Tony Griffiths is on the right giving the car the once over!

Atlantic RT1s, where did the Mike Catlow car come from. Always very well turned out in vivid green, it raced in England in 1980-81. Did he get it new, or was it ex-F2/Atlantic.

Dan Rear

Catlow RT1 (http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p3602903.html)

Not the nicest of colours!

Don't know if Dan's question has been answered, but Catlow's car was described at the time as being "ex-Turnbull"
The only Turnbull on my RT1 list is Rob of that ilk, but his car was reportedly written off in 1978

The RT1 of Mike Simpson, awaiting scrutineering, Donington HSCC meeting, 2 April 2006:-

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2249/doningtonhscc2april2006056b2rw.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doningtonhscc2april2006056b2rw.jpg)

The RT1 of Mike Simpson, awaiting scrutineering, Donington HSCC meeting, 2 April 2006:-

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2249/doningtonhscc2april2006056b2rw.th.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doningtonhscc2april2006056b2rw.jpg)

In the ex-Piquet colours! So is it his old nail?

Don't know if Dan's question has been answered, but Catlow's car was described at the time as being "ex-Turnbull"
The only Turnbull on my RT1 list is Rob of that ilk, but his car was reportedly written off in 1978

I think the Catlow car was based on the ex-Turnbull wreck, don't know where it went after Mike C finished with it in 1982.

That ex-Piquet RT1 I presume is the one Francis Gomm's used recently.

This was just posted on the 'What were Supersaloons made of' thread:

David Hall did run his Suzuki, but it had handling problems , and he shelved the project , it was I recall based on a Ralt RT1 chassis .

In the Historic F2 races at Brands Hatch this weekend there were three RT1s. Frenchmen Philip Harper (RT1-71) and Christian Million (RT1-53) had their regular BMW-powered cars. James Ledamun had RT1-99 with a BDA, painted orange in Cassani colours. This may have been driven by Larry Perkins and Manfred Winkelhock. It ended up as a French hill climb car, much modified from original. James has rebuilt it, although little remains of the original car.

Alan Brown

Alan, I've just realised that I 'caught' both the Harper and Ledamun cars at
Silverstone on 20 May:-

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/404/silverstonehscc40th20may200620.th.jpg (http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc40th20may200620.jpg)

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/9854/silverstonehscc40th20may200621.th.jpg (http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverstonehscc40th20may200621.jpg)

Alan and John, nice to see 3 RT1s out! I've just checked on the build records above, and -71 is just described as '1977', with no owner/driver. Was it an original F2 does anyone know, or maybe a climber to France ??

Dan

I've just noticed that you talk about seeing build records that have 71 in them. Where was this? The Autosport feature stops at chassis 70 to Carl Whitney for FC and the salvaged factory records start at the beginning of 1978 with 94. Of those "missing" 1977 builds we know
72 Eden for Mike Wilds
73 Brian Robertson for Craig Hill [Atlantic]
76 Mario Pati [F3]
77 Everest F3
78 Pierre Phillips for Juan Cochesa [Atlantic]
82 Fernando Jorge [F3]
84 Ken Silverstone [F3 noted by AF July 77]
87 Nestov for Ariel Bakst [F2]
88 Brian Robertson as Atlantic [October 77 so probably for early season car in 1978]
91 Larry Perkins [Atlantic for 78 NZ series]
92 Vicic [Japan] F2

I've been going through trying to guesstimate who had a new car in 77 and when to work out the missing numbers.

These are the contenders
F3
Mario Ferraris [May at earliest after Euroracing fallout]
Andrea de Cesaris [after Monaco to supplement the ex Flux car]
Daniele Albertin [July]
Derek Warwick [late season]

Atlantic
Phillips for Kevin Cogan
Gilles Leger [arrives September]

FSV/FC
Hakan Alriksson
Robertson for 1978 season [has an early 78 FSV that isn't explained by the build record so must come from the numbers after 88]
Les Hill has a new RT1 FC for the SCCA finals which again must be from the last few numbers.

F2
Rob Turnbull [April]

I think that Turnbull must be 71 and Leger and Warwick 85 and 86 [though don't know which way round] Any advances or observations?

Chris

Chris, no records I'm afraid other than those Adam brought to us above. For -71, it only states a 77 car, which we know. I think you may be right on -71 as the Turnbull car, that later went to Catlow for UK Atlantic in 79-80-81-82. It could then follow that it later went to France for Harper, who rebuilt it into an F2 car.

Chris

I can help a little with your late 1977 gap filling job. A F2-spec RT1-BMW went to Jimmy Mieusset, first appearing in practice at Dunières on 30 July but not racing until Mont Dore on 5-6-7 August where he won. It was white, if that helps.

Mieusset had bought a new state-of-the-art Martini MK22 for 1977 but Christian Debias won several early climbs in his new RT1 so Mieusset decided to buy one too. The F3 origins of the Ralt and its "kart-like" handling were said to be better for the mountains that the more sophisticated Martini.

It's vaguely possible that this car was RT1-71, now in France with Philip Harper and a BMW engine, but more likely it was a rush order to be ready in time for Mont Dore so a slightly later number would make more sense.

Allen

I crewed for Bruce Jensen from 1969 until 1976 and then again for a period in 1979 as crew chief. His wife and my girlfriend did not get along and I was also working on her race car so it did not last. Anyway when Bruce got the car we went testing at West Palm Beach (Moroso). He pranged the right front tub on a corner marker but kept going. Scratch one engine. The water pipe was crimped and the tub tweaked on the corner but not affecting the pick up. Back at the shop in Ont. I straightened the tub, more or less. We really had little equipment. I only worked on the car part time. Bruce brought me a sheet of aluminium and a cardboard pattern and asked me fabricate a 2nd front bulkhead. Using a friend's workshop I did so. It turned out the pattern was not quite right! Close but not right. It was still used and pop riveted over the original front bulkhead. Yipe!! So if you see this "fix" you will know it is chassis 95. Car was probably sold in Florida where Bruce now lives.

i have a foto of Debias car on french mountain race start
if anyone needs it let me know the car is meant to be the car
Christian Million (RT1-53) races now in Euro F2

RT1-5 has just appeared for sale today in the US.

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=9299

car was owned by Ozzie guy for many years he took car from oz to USA when he lived ther for 5-10 yrs sold car to a local when he returned to Oz

I went to see the RT1-24 yesterday. It is painted blue-white and fitted with a F3, 2-litre Toyota engine. Does anyone know more about the car? I understood it was sold new to Italy.

According to Ralt records sold with a Ford t/c engine as new, and to Italy. This would probably mean it was Luciano Pavesi's car in 1976 F3 which is the only Italian RT1 with a t/c that I can find. [Pedersoli, who bought RT1-1 which in 1975 had run a t/c, took it out and fitted a Toyota immediately]

Chris

i saw RT1-36 at LMstory 2007, the car is yellow and blue fitted with a Toyota engine. The car compete in http://www.f3classic.com/site.php?page=pilote
(i dont remember the name of the driver, i will post a pic soon) There is a sticker on the car telling the name of the first owner.

Are you sure on RT1-36? According to Adam's list much higher up, -36 was a 1976 FAt car, sold to Robertson in the US. Seems odd that it now appears as an F3 car...

not easy to modify the car
gbox change engine adaptor plate probably rear uprights maybe brake discs wishbones all round rear wing is smaller on F3
wheels are different width why would u alter a car at that expense when u could buy a ready made car

i was sure that you were doubtfull, that is why i took two pics : one of the car and one of the chassis......plate :p

I will put it on this thread soon

Why not an F3? It was probably last seen as an FSV!
The chassis number is given in the Autosport list of early Ralts as an Atlantic sold via Robertson.
It was sold to Dave McMillan and the chassis number was noted by David McKinney in the 1977 Peter Stuyvesant series. The car was then used by McMillan in the US and when he teamed up with Ray Lipper's Centerline Wheels operation the car seems to have gone to Lipper who eventually seems to have turned it into an FSV. [I have the necessary references to demonstrate this]

It would be a relatively easy matter to go to an F3 from FSV I'd have thought. Remember that these cars shared a common tub. I seem to have one example of a car [Dick Moody's] going from FSV to Atlantic and back again in the space of a year.

Be interesting to see whose they claim it was;
2-1 Piquet
3-1 de Angelis
5-1 Lammers
5-1 Senna [yes I am aware that Senna never drove an RT1]
10-1 Warwick
20-1 Acheson


Chris

These F3 classic races in France are not so strict regulation... they ran with some FRenault Turbo (there is a March 75R wich is a rarity even in France !)

yes Chris FSV and F3 is the same car but the atlantic is a larger dimension car on wishbones ( for track width) plus gbox and some of the rear uprights on ralts change in shape size casuing headache for supplying car parts
wheels are wider too for atlantic

the rt3 and rt5 are so close in their parts and design its fair to say the cars could be the same however i do find difference sin upright castings to make them different
im not questioning every car thats converted from FSV F3 to atlantic or vice versa but just pointing out its not a simple engine change!!
the gearbox is a major ££ component plus wheel sizes maybe brake discs (often calipres are the same or maybe 1 axle needs an upgrade) rear wing will change in dimensions either due to rules or down force/speed reasons
another small difference for usa cars is the roll hoop and forward brace bars they have to fit not sure when the rules changed but u can see many usa race car fotos a forward side brace that uk eec cars did not need to run

Here i tell the truth !:p

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4558/lmstory2007074rf0.th.jpg (http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lmstory2007074rf0.jpg)


http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8338/lmstory2007073pf9.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lmstory2007073pf9.jpg)

i spotted also RT3 -206 and a March 75R . there were plenty of Ralt at LM Story, just check the website above...

Re the plates on RT1-36, I can't make these big enough to be legible, but...

Ralt chassis plate is [1978 Atlantic at any rate] black bakelite, white lettering, on the dash to the right hand side.

Chris

did u click the foto ?
it will get bigger

i was puzzled by the plate being silver
if plate is not on dash often down on the frame around the drivers footwell on later cars

The driver is DUMOLIE Daniel from Toulouse (number 31 is Toulouse !) (first season) he stand up near the car.

On the side of the car, there is a sentence :
"ran by D.McMillan - new zealand pacific race :p


and the car was registrated by some serious english people !!!! CLASSIC F3 ASSOCIATION http://www.classicf3.co.uk/

Great, absolutely right about the car! Wonder where he got it from.
Are you likely to encounter the car again? I have Ray Lipper selling this car in California as an FSV with an Atlantic tub in the early 1980s. I'd be interested in the intermediate history.

Did click on the images, but they didn't get any bigger for me...

Chris

FA tub is same tub as F3/ FSV except the rear end for fuel cell is longer therefor overall length of tub will be aprox 2-5 inches bigger on the FA car over F3/ FSV
in theory the FA F2 rt1 is same machine except the rt1 f2 tub had side impact crash structure fitted ( rules i believe) the F3 FSV had narrower track wishbones im sure the rear uprights vary but that might be an upgrade as the car did run over 5 years
it will not be a simple swap over from FA to F3 or vice versa would be cheaper to sell 1 car and buy the other model!

just try to contact Daniel Dumolie via his company website :

http://www.boxer-bikes.fr/presentation.php

(sorry you have to click the pic and then the pic will appear in an other window)

The pics enlarged for me too. Well who would've thought it, a 76 FAt RT1 goes to NZ, then the States where converted to FSV. It turns up nearly 30 yrs after as an F3! The power of the web, and the genius of Ron T!!

someone has spent a lot of money ruining an FA car to make it into f3 car
that is like taking a V12 ferrari f1 engne cut off 2 cylinders to make modern f1 engine- cheaper to get the right motor in the 1st place

Only an englishman can do that ;)

This car was running, before this year, in F3 Classic in.......UK ! ? according to the 2nd plate !

Drifty,

If it's been an FSV with an Atlantic tub perhaps it isn't as modified as we think. Would the extra length for the Atlantic tub with whcih it was advertised imply a longer wheelbase than usual rahter than the back of the tub being butchered? IIRC some F3 teams [Racing Team Holland I think] were putting a spacer in to lengthen the wheelbase in period.
Would FSV suspension have a similar geometry to F3 given the very similar wheel sizes?

Chris

Further to the modification of this car RT1-36 as a FSV.
It was modified by Dave McMillan himself when he lost his Psachie RT5 drive mid season [Sports Car Oct 1980 p.44]
There wasn't much alternative, it seems to me. He was leading the series at teh time. There wasn't any way he could afford an RT5, even if one was available [and Ralt were late delivering cars to FSV spec that season] and the RT1 FSV was certainly still capable of podium places - he was 8th on debut with the car with another RT1 ahead of him - which might have been enough to take enough points for the title. Unfortunately he threw it at the wall at Minneapolis State Fair next time and hurt himself and missed a couple of races.

So, the original changes to this car are period rahter than some modern butchery.

chris

hI,

I am Daniel Dumolié the owner of the RT1 36; several months ago I spoke with Adam Ferrington who give me a lot of informations
The car ran in formula Atlantic and came back in England in 1990, it was modified on F3 classic with a Toyota; a french driver Remy Fraisse restored the car and last year I bought the car. Remy did not know its history, I discovered its history with the refernce of frame.
I run for the first year the championship F3 classic and I was in Le Mans last week, I will be in LEDENON and MAGNYCOURS IN September and October.
I spoke to with Gaving Show who is a car photograph in New Zealand, he try to find pictures of the car, the sponsor was citizen; I dream to find a picture.
If anybody have informations I am very interesting.
Thank you very much ( sorry for my English, I am a french gentleman)

Daniel

Welcome. I have two pictures of the car when it was raced by David McMillan in the 1977 series in New Zealand with sponsorship from Citizen watches.
I also have a contact for David's former mechanic from that series, who would probably have more material and would be delighted to learn of the car's survival.

If you send me a private message with your email I will send you the images and this man's address.

Chris

Thank you CHRIS,

My e mail adress is dumolie.daniel@numericable.fr

What a good news!!

Very happy that my pic was useful to a french compatriot thru an english website ! :)

Daniel

Welcome. I have two pictures of the car when it was raced by David McMillan in the 1977 series in New Zealand with sponsorship from Citizen watches.
I also have a contact for David's former mechanic from that series, who would probably have more material and would be delighted to learn of the car's survival.

If you send me a private message with your email I will send you the images and this man's address.

Chris

Chris

Have you find the pictures, can you send me with the David's contact.
My email adress dumolie.daniel@numericable.fr

Chris i beleive FSV and f3 cars are eseentially the same beasty
ye sif fuel cell area is larger on Fa car it would in theory increas the wheels base to the rear of the car as the parrallel links engine mount etc will be 1-3 inches further away for the dash board for example as a std fixed point to work from
a LWB car helps in the corners over a SWB
while a SWB is quick in a straight line i think u will often read car update/ mods making 1-2 inch changes on wheel base making the car work better

i am still puzzled at FSV using Mk 9 gbox FA using FT200 its an expensive conversion plus wheel widths and possibly wing and upright castings to alter

Don't know if Dan's question has been answered, but Catlow's car was described at the time as being "ex-Turnbull"
The only Turnbull on my RT1 list is Rob of that ilk, but his car was reportedly written off in 1978

Just seen on ORC that Allen has confirmed, somehow, the Catlow car as RT1-71. This is now with Phillipe Harper I gather. So it seems to be Turnbull in 1977 for Climbing, written off by him in 78 and replaced by a March 762. The bits from -71 then rebuilt into an Atlantic by Catlow, used in the UK 1980-82, then goes to Harper. Does this look OK?

Dan
That would be right. The "confirmation" has to be pretty much by elimination given the debut of the Turnbull car in March/April and knowing what the following chassis are all the way into June 77. Ralt sometimes delivered cars out of schedule, but I know that some of the June deliveries were orders placed after Turnbull's car was delivered, so that can't be the case here.
Incidentally, Catlow rebuilt the car late on in 1979.

Chris

So it seems to be Turnbull in 1977 for Climbing, written off by him in 78 and replaced by a March 762.

Not just "Climbing" - Rob Turnbull ran the RT1 in the British Sprint Championship in 1977 through to 1978.

:old:

Dan, I had hoped the wording of the ORC update would have painted that extra snippet as being from Chris as well.

Chris, should Catlow's car have a footnote explaining why we believe it's 71?

do u want me to as mike directly the questions?

do u want me to as mike directly the questions?

Drifty

See that bear headed towards the treeline with a roll of Andrex?

Chris

not from where i am standing
im on my yacht in the mediteranean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not from where i am standing
im on my yacht in the mediteranean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mind you it is cold enough for it to be a POLAR bear!;)

On the B42 thread, and linked Irish FAt discussion, Templeton's RT1 is confirmed as -116. From Adam's listing this is a '78 F3 car, described as sold to "Scott Scott". Does this mean Garry Scott, the Ozzie who came over here for F3 that year? I assume Trevor T bought it from here for his UK F3 season in 1979, then converted to Atlantic.

I have just found this site. I am the owner for the last 22 years of RT-1-35.I am looking for information on its history and pictures of it.
Tom

Tom

Welcome. Originally a Formula 2 car for the Project Three team of Ron Dennis, then to Roger Heavens but not raced, then to Alo Lawler early 1978, then hillclimbing in UK.

Who did you buy it from in the mid 80s?

Chris

Tom

Welcome. Originally a Formula 2 car for the Project Three team of Ron Dennis, then to Roger Heavens but not raced, then to Alo Lawler early 1978, then hillclimbing in UK.

Who did you buy it from in the mid 80s?

Chris

Chris, who do you have as the owner of this car in the Hillclimb scene?

Steve

Steve, I don't! I just have a note to that effect on my Ralt spreadsheet for some point in the early 80s. I'm also a bit dubious now about Lawler's having the car! I think the AS reference in May 78 to him getting an ex Cheever car must be to chassis 64 which is what he shows up with at Donington 21 May 78. I remember Heavens advertising this car in early 78, as the photo showed it with the early cockpit and bodywork which the 1977 Project Four cars never ran, and from somewhere I have a memory of Lawler running an early bodied RT1 in 1978 after he dispensed with his Surtees. I am, however, prepared to be completely wrong on this...

Chris

Further to Dan's question about the Scott - Templeton car
A/S 6/9/79 p. 28 says Templeton's car is ex Gary Scott, and 116 was indeed Scott's 1978 F3 car. Presume that he converted to F.At spec as there weren't many British based RT1s with BDAs available in 1980 and for short Irish races he wouldn't have needed the extra tankage of an RT1/4. Would, however, have needed to work on suspension and brakes.
Car last seen for sale AS 7.1.82 p. 60 winner Phoenix Park; Mondello; Kirkistown.

Chris

Chris/Steve, Alo definitely had an ex-Cheever RT1, though he only used it twice I think, in AFX 1978. After that I don't know, maybe it did go speedeventing? Didn't John Hinley sprint such a car at somepoint, may be this one...

Chris/Steve, Alo definitely had an ex-Cheever RT1, though he only used it twice I think, in AFX 1978. After that I don't know, maybe it did go speedeventing? Didn't John Hinley sprint such a car at somepoint, may be this one...

John Hinley used a Trojan T101 (in 1977) & a Lola T330C (in 1978) within the British Sprint Championship.

The only un-identified Ralt RT1s in the British Sprint Championship records are:

1) Martin Brockhouse - 1.6 BDA engined - 1982
2) Mike Remnant - 3.5 Supercharged Rover V8 - 1987/88

:relax:

[quote=Chris Townsend]Tom

Welcome. Originally a Formula 2 car for the Project Three team of Ron Dennis, then to Roger Heavens but not raced, then to Alo Lawler early 1978, then hillclimbing in UK.

Who did you buy it from in the mid 80s?

Chris[/quote

I aquired the car when I sold my BT 21. Joe Spesado (spelling?) sold the car to Peter West who seems to have not paid for it. Joe took the car back and I purchased it from him. I shall find the log book (In my helmet bag) and check on it further. Seems the car might have been raced in Wi. Car has a injected bdd and still has a fga400 g/box
Tom

Tom

Welcome. Originally a Formula 2 car for the Project Three team of Ron Dennis, then to Roger Heavens but not raced, then to Alo Lawler early 1978, then hillclimbing in UK.

Who did you buy it from in the mid 80s?

Chris

I aquired the car when I sold my BT 21. Joe Spesado (spelling?) sold the car to Peter West who seems to have not paid for it. Joe took the car back and I purchased it from him. I shall find the log book (In my helmet bag) and check on it further. Seems the car might have been raced in Wi. Car has a injected bdd and still has a fga400 g/box
Tom

Tom, any idea about the Hillclimb connection?

Steve

Tom

One ex Cheever/Lawler car certainly made it to US. This has to be 35 or 64

for sale On Track 2 Dec 82 p.38 'ex Project 4/Cheever development car; completely rebuilt in 1981; 1 race since. Owner ran British F1 this year; sell with Nicholson BDA' Dave Williams, 19310 Timber Forest, Humble TX 77346

Peter West appears Riverside WCAR late 1984 with RT1, so Joe Sposato 1983 and Williams late 82 makes sense.

Tom, what's your family name? Did you use the car mainly in SCCA nationals and regionals rather than WCAR?

Chris

the other P4 cheever car is in UK racing with bmw

Ron Dennis had four RT1s
35 with Hart 420R for Project Three bought summer 76 and used by Cheever, to Heavens 1977.
64 with BMW M12 for Project Four bought winter 76 for 77 season. Used by Cheever.Used by Hoffmann at Donington as his own car written off. then to Heini Mader 1978 for Romeo Camathias and to Alo Lawler 1978/79 latterly as F.Atlantic
67 with BMW M12 for Project Four bought winter 76 for 77 season. Used by Hoffmann and probably destroyed in collision with Patrese at Estoril 2 Oct 77
68 with BMW M12 for Project Four bought winter 76 for 77 season. Used by Stuck and as team spare.
There might be an additional car delivered June that sits in the gap in the Ralt build records from mid to end 77. Cheever uses this car at Rouen after damaging 64 at Mugello and MN says it's new there, whilst 68 has already appeared earlier in the season

Chris

[/quote

Seems the car might have been raced in Wi. Car has a injected bdd and still has a fga400 g/box
Tom[/QUOTE]

Tom "Wi" is Wisconsin here, not West Indies? If so, would the name Gordon Meffert [Madison, WI] who is selling an RT1 December 83, ring any bells or appear in the log?

Chris

Chris, -64 wasn't used by Alo in FAt here. He bought Ray M's RT1-66 after the 79 season, used it early-mid 1980 here, then sold to Tom O'Leary. So he owned both -64 and -66, the former as a F2, the latter FAt.

Dan

Thanks for the correction, he only ran 64 in the AFX series! But what did he do with 35?

Chris

http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v217/125/90/826713559/n826713559_395468_8519.jpg
Terry Perkins - Thruxton Easter Monday 1978:photo:

Great pic Steve, but its Larrykins in fact, not Terrykins. This car didn't do much that year, its best race was the 79 'Ring F2 race, with Winklehock, 3rd.

Re that RT1, no. 99, the ex-Cassani car. I met James Ledamun and his dad yesterday at Cadwell, what a great couple of blokes!

James said he sold the car, but has another RT1 now. I'm not sure how much I can say about what he told me, so I'll say nowt!!

the car he has is a car i dialled him into last year
we have discussed a while ago
not sure what it is has no tag all we know is Blaton owned the car believed ex euro hillclimb car a german owner was mentioned driving it sometime in the 70`s/80`s but we cant find much on it and its not worthy of pursuing to hard
1 day someone is going to walk upto the car and mumble all about it
i think its F3 car converted to run the euro hills

Thats what James told me too DW. He also said he and his Dad have another single seater, a v rare UK based 80s one, but again I'll say nothing in case I say the wrong thing! Though Drifty probably knows about this too...

Erlrich i cant recall the year i dont think its the mid 70`s Flux atlantic car i know its got march uprights on it it might be 79-80 model not seen it for 2 years when it was a tub on stands

Thats what James and Ralph told me too Drifty. They said it IS the 1980-82 Atlantic car, and has a 792-ish nose. This would make it that car, tho' it may well have been based on the 1976-77 RP4 F3 car. They said they thought it had some March 762 parts, and mentioned the name Richard Robarts. This would make sense as OTOH Dr E ran the ex-Robarts 762 in Aurora 78 for Brett Riley on occasion.

a mate of mine knows Robarts via a friend
in our conversations on race cars he has mentioned the myson