The Pre War competition Talbots

Should start a Talbot thread as the 90 piece is of a car that shall we say is tired.The other works 90's and GX68 can cruise at 70=80mph with a top speed of iooMPH .4000RPM with a 4.3 back axle should be 90 mph as its 23mph per 1000rpm.Presumably the 90 tested will soon be for sale and it can be rebuilt properly with the normal silent engine and proper information from the instruments. Nuff said

No sooner said than done, John.

I've read Anthony Blight's wonderful book about these great cars but you have current first hand knowledge, so perhaps you could tell us more about them. I have a non-running BA75 but the less said about that, the better at the moment. The floor's yours, if you want to expand on this interesting (to me, anyway) subject.

John Will put together details by Wednesday

Excellent, and sorry I didn't respond earlier to your same message on the Britannia thread. Looking forward to seeing these great cars given some well deserved 'air time'.

Thanks for intro.

Have been told first to prepare a list of the competition cars built by The Works.


Works Talbot’s[/B][/U]

Built 1930 – 34 Barlby Road
North Kensington
London

All cars 6 cylinder.

The Works Cars

1930 Talbot 90’s Works Team (the really ugly ones)
Crash Gearbox (Silent 3rd)
2.3 straight 6

PL2, All cars had excellent Brooklands history and 3rd & 4th
PL3, at Le Mans 1930 but only PL4 has been re-built
PL4, to give comparable performance these days.
+ Single Seater

1931 Talbot 105 Works team 3 litre straight 6 (Aluminium Engine 31)
Crash Gearbox (Silent 3rd)

GO 51, Brooklands history. Two thirds at Le Mans, 4th place in
GO 52, Mille Miglia until crash 100 mile from finish. Tourist
GO 53, Trophy, Irish GP.
GO 54, 2nd place 500 miles race 1931 and 3rd place 500 miles
+ Single Seater race 1932 + highest race speed.

1932 Talbot 105 3 Litre Works Team (VDP 3 litre tourer bodies)
Crash Gearbox

PJ 7361, Built solely for Alpine Trial where they covered route
PJ 7362, with no penalties.
PJ 7363

1934 Talbot 105 Works Team 3 Litre 1934
3.3 Litre 1935
Pre select Wilson box.

BGH 21, The ultimate Talbots with Alpine Trial Team win (no penalties)
BGH 22, and Brooklands record. BGH 23 being most famous car in 35-39
BGH 23 period. Ultimate spec 195 bph as used. Brooklands BGH 23 for
4 seater lap record at 130 mph. Also SA, GP, RAC and Scottish Rally.

1934 AXK 800 105 Works Rally car with special body RAC, Scottish, Welsh Rallies
and Brooklands Shelsley.

Semi Works Car

1934 JJ 93/AYL 2 105 3L Car built for Dr. Roth and eventually the chassis
engine continued to be AYL 2 with Alpine body onto JJ93.

1931 GX 68 Talbot 90 built from 90 single seater and now in hands of Peter
Swete. The best looking car and very quick, under 2-40
Silverstone Historic.

The cars are in various states of repair and all the reg. numbers are in use although PL3, PJ 7362 and BGH 22 are effectively replicas. The most original are PL2 (needs work), PJ7363 David Thomson superb original car and BGH 21. BGH 22 parts are incorporated in BGH 292. The original car was exported to Australia and returned in parts during past 30 years. The registration number BGH 22 was left in UK when export took place and purchased from GLC by Anthony Blight in 1967 and he built excellent replica to fit. All parts of BGH 23 have now been put together. The GO cars are an almagation of original parts, but none have the original aluminium engine. PL2 is original but PL4 has many original parts.

This is the starter to what I hope is an interesting topic. The 105 Talbots can be raced rallied, toured virtually anything (except trials) and certainly streets in front of Bentley, Alvis Lagondas and especially Invictas (is that bit controversial). Note BGH 23 was timed at 134mph in 2005 and with 3.3 litre engine, original head block, gearbox and Roesch Design and in 2005 won pre-war race at Spa, Silverstone GP and Historic Circuit. BGH 23 car led the Liege Rome Rally for four days until driver brain fade and latest Tour Britania win.

All 34 105 Talbots race with original blocks , original heads, original gearbox, etc and are correct capacity.

Special cars me thinks.



JR

Have been told first to prepare a list of the competition cars built by The Works.

Who was that I wonder?

All 34 105 Talbots race with original blocks , original heads, original gearbox, etc and are correct capacity.

Which tells us a lot about the integrity of the original design and build of these cars. Blight tells us that the internals of these engine were years ahead of their time.

Special cars me thinks.

Very much so; they have always sat in the shadows of Bentley, Bugatti, Alfa Romeo and Mercedes, particularly in the written word, but their achievements in competition are remarkable given that they were really only mildly modified road going tourers, capable of competing at such diverse events held at Brooklands, Le Mans and the Alpine Rally. In terms of engineering excellence and build quality, they should stand alongside the other great marques of the period.

Aside from Blight's book, finding anything written about any of the Roesch Talbots is difficult, let alone about the competition cars. I have found just two so far. The article in the September 2004 issue of Octane and No 93 of 'The Car' issued many years ago. The latter has a number of photos of GX68, mentioned above by John. It is indeed probably the best looking but not as distinctively different looking to other 'sports' cars of the period as the works cars, in my opinion.

Thanks for the introduction to these cars, John. I hope that awareness of them has been raised by your success and that of others in historic events in recent years, but I do think their position in the context of the other great marques of that era should be positively reassessed.

Interested in Ed McDonough's thoughts.He sat with Garath Burnett for four days on Tour Brittania.41sec at Shelsley.Escourts and MGB's behind,inc. the ancient Wizzo on one occasion.Adrian Newey supposed to have asked at Rockingham who was the lunitic driving the Talbot when it was seventh overall in the first race at one point.

I thought you might be interested in this gallery of Talbot photos
http://abgilbertalbot.fotopic.net/

A. B. Gilbert was my wife's great uncle. When his widow died a few years ago we found an album containing these photographs.

After discovering these I went looking for AYL 7 and tracked it down to Holland when the same owner had one of the Le Mans cars PL2 (I think) I believe it may have been a reserve. You probably know who I'm thinking of....

I saw AYL 7 when it was over here for an engine rebuild. It looked superb and had a brass plaque listing ABG's Brooklands wins.

Fabulous images, David. Thank you.

I think, from the numbers on the cars, that many of these shots are from the BARC Inter-Club meeting of June 20 1931.

Certainly in that meeting he ran a Talbot numbered 10 and won the Sports Car Short Handicap in the Austin 7.

The 105 in the photo was built in 1934 and was raced by Gilbert at end of 30's The car AYL7 is at present having it engine rebuilt in Essex.Both PL2 and AYL 7 are owned by the same Dutchman and have been for several years

A few years ago my wife and I visited the owner of AYL 7 at his home in Holland and were given a tour of his collection. He gave us a copy of a history of the car, compiled by Peter Swete.

My apologies for drifting slightly off topic, but if anyone can point me in the right direction to research A B Gilbert, I'd be grateful.

Didn't Motor Sport have a feature on these Talbots a year or so ago?

Yes about 1990. Will confirm tommorow.Another trival piece of info.Stanley Mann named the Blight Talbot bible as his favorite motoring book,buy a copy whilst they are still available .

It was certainly more recent than 1990! :old:

I've found the earlier article in Motor Sport, anyway. It's in the February 1991 issue, starting page 151 entitled 'The brilliance of Georges Roesch' (Roesch and the 105). A reasonable length piece with 5 pages of text and pictures.

Pleased I was close on the Motor Sport dates.Should have known as two were my cars and the other Des Burnets

Strewth! Was it that long ago? :o

As a temporary diversion, you might look at this:-

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1449730#post1449730

Had the poster stuck to the thread about ugly cars, that would have been just about acceptable (it's only an opinion, afterall), but the rest is rather symptomatic of the lack of knowledge around this marque, and why it's profile needs to be raised.

The thread from the other forum is worth moving to this one as it is controversial and certainly I do not agree with it contents leaves lots of room for discussion.If nothing else it proves most prewar people have an opinion on Talbots good or bad,no one sits on the fence

I had suggested that the poster concerned brought his discussion here because much of what he said was off topic in the thread he posted. We would have had to split the relevant posts off from the thread under which they were posted rather than move the whole thread. The poster seemed reluctant to take up the discussion here, even though I had pointed to this thread. Since we have had our say there, and he seems to have, at the moment, anyway, decided not to pursue it, I'm inclined to leave it at that for the moment.

Incidentally, I don't know how I missed it but there is an article on PL2 and the works Talbot 90s in the November issue of 'The Automobile', which I will now read with interest!

http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/4114/vsccsilverstone230405011a2fo.th.jpg (http://img420.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsccsilverstone230405011a2fo.jpg)

Click on thumbnail to enlarge.

O.K, here's a fine example of what we have been talking about, but where and when?

Tell you later in the day.Its 23 in !938 Brooklands trim.The car has just been sold to a European for lots of money so someone thinks there OK.The car won races at both Silverstone and Spa this year.

John, I know the answer, because I took the picture, and I knew you would know; just wondered whether anyone else would. Didn't think that you'd ever sell such a wonderful machine!

Looks a lot like the pit garages at Silverstone to me...

John-still have other two works cars and I have never been a fan of that nose

John, glad that you retain a couple! I accept that the nose on BGH 23 does not display the more traditional Talbot upright radiator style, but presumably it is historically correct (as it competed at Brooklands), in which case that is a 'good thing' and representative of how it looked then.

Looks a lot like the pit garages at Silverstone to me...

Yes, it is. The photo was taken on 23 April, this year, at the VSCC meeting.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/481/vsccsilverstone230405025a4gy.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsccsilverstone230405025a4gy.jpg)

Same location and event. I believe this is Gideon Hudson's AV105 2 seater.

correct

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2640/vsccsilverstone230405045a4th.th.jpg (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vsccsilverstone230405045a4th.jpg)

And, for comparison purposes, a non-competition Talbot, displaying the traditional classic Talbot front end. Taken on the same day as the above, in the Silverstone paddock car park. (Apologies for the rather amateurish deletion of number plate no.)

All the Blight works 105's have now found new home's.Of the seven cars four are with European owners and three stay with the British

Do you think we will we see any of them out this year, John? Are any going to the early VSCC Silverstone meeting?

The main meeting will be Le Mans Classic with four cars entered.Main Uk meeting will be Silverstone Festival at end July It seems most of the new owners are not interested in racing and would rather do rally's and social events.VSCC events for specials are not my bag.