Modus

I'm trying to track down what happened to, [and what were] the Modus M3s run in the Indyatlantic and Shellsport series in 1976 by Dicksons of Perth and sponsored by British Caledonian airline.

They ran in Atlantic with BDAs, and with Swindon BDX engines in G8 - effectively making them F2 cars, but with smaller tankage. They were very quick propositions, especially in the hands of Richard Scott who raced one alongside Norman Dickson.

Both cars were sold to Ireland in 1977, one being used by Des Donnelly and the other by Mike Nugent, who kept until 1979 when he sold it to Patsy McGarrity.

Don't know who got the Scott car and who the Dickson. Don't know the chassis numbers, don't know nuthin'...

The other Modus is even more obscure and perhaps more interesting. It ran in F5000 and was the first car to run in British F5000 with the Ford GAA V6 engine [3.4 litre] and which was, I think, the motor out of the Transit van! It was described as an M5 and was raced by Tom Walkinshaw at the closing races of the 1974 season.

I'm guessing that this engine found its way into the March 75A that ran with a GAA engine the following year, but what was, and what happened to the M5.

And what happened to Modus generally? Teddy Savory and Jo Marquart built a lot of cars for F3 and Atlantic in a short time, before going bust, but you don't see many about in historics and the factory records don't seem to exist. Be pleased to hear from any owners with histories.

David Sears at Supernova ( In the old Argo factory) at Griston has the rights to the Argo name etc. Perhaps he has some old Modus records too?

Chris,

All I can help you with are the chassis numbers from Sheldon (Providing you believe the source!):

Dickson used 025-FA
Scott used 027-FA

Jeremy

I didn't realise that Sheldon had covered the G8 races.
Is that in the F5000 book?

If so, does he give the Walkinshaw car in 1974? Those numbers are a bit odd, because 047 was Phil Sharp's car, and that had [allegedly] been raced by Brise in 1975. [But then again, it might have had a new tub in it, It didn't appear until late on in 76, by which time Modus might well have built another 20 cars.]

I sort of believe in Sheldon, despite the fact that the F2 races are often inaccurate. [this is where I spent a lot of money and then a lot of time trying to reconcile the GP and Voiturette records with what was being said in contemporary reports.] The two things that F1R get badly wrong are a total lack of proofreading, and the assumption that once a chassis number is seen, the driver uses it all season.

One interesting way to check this would be to compare my records for a G8 race [say Brands August '76, where I got a lot of the chassis numbers myself, and still have the records] with Sheldon's.

If I PM you the sheet for this race that will eventually go onto Allen's site, would you check it and mark where Sheldon differs?

Have to say I agree with your "gripes" about the books - Especially thr assumption of a chassis being used all season.

Anyway... yeah, drop me a PM or e-mail, and I'll check what I have.

Some useless Modus info,2 Atlantic cars came to NZ in '77 for the Altantic series here,John Nicholson(the McLaren engine builder)drove one,and Phil Sharp drove the other.Nicholsons car was sold to local saloon racer Robbie Francevic who heavily modified it and ran it as a "Typhoon".The Sharp car was sold to another saloon racer Steve Emerson,who had a big crash in it.That car is actually for sale on the net,they must have rebuilt it.They were only mid feild runners here.

Armco Bender

That bit about the "Typhoon" is interesting. Was it still a single seater or super-saloon or something?

Can you confirm the name of the guy who had the second car? My notes, which come out of Autosport show it as Steve Empson. Was it really Emerson?
Do you have the address for the car on sale, and do they [I bet they do] describe it as 'ex Brise'?

Too many questions, but thanks for the help!

Um,

Can't add too much to this but the GAA 3.4 litre engine was actually the Cosworth built V6 that Ford used in it's 1973/4 Group 2 Capri. I know that David Purley used one in an F5000 car (don't know what) in 1976.

The Transit connection comes from the fact that the block was the V6 Essex block but in order to cope with the stresses in Group 2 it was er, enhanced(?).:)

Chris,the Nicholson car was purchased by Robbie Francevic who modified it with new angular(ugly,it looked pretty homemade) bodywork,it was raced as a "Typhoon" Atlantic,as they(a kitchen appliance company) were Francevics main sponsor at the time.He drove it a couple of seasons in the Altantic series here.The new body work didnt make it go any better than it did as a Modus.The cars weren't really competitive in the '77 series.
The Phil Sharp car was sold to Datsun saloon racer Steve Emson,Emson didn't race it long before he had a major accident,I'm pretty sure he never raced again after it and I'm sure the car was pretty much destroyed.This is the site with the Modus for sale http://www.ralt.com.au/restoration.htm .As it says it is the ex Brise/Emson car,but it must have been built from a lot of parts.:)

The Sharp - Emson Modus. At least the ad is right when it says that it was built in the UK from parts. If I'm right, Phil Sharp was a New Zealander working at Modus, and he built the car himself to race in the Atlantic series here, then took it home with him for the '77 Tasman. Graham Vercoe, in his often unreliable book on NZ Motor racing, gives the car chassis number 047. This is about right for a Modus built in mid 1976. Problem is, Tony Brise couldn't have driven it. Brise finished with Modus in mid 75, and would have had a chassis number lower than 25 [the lowest build number for a car produced in April 76].

Also, a Modus M3 was sold in late 75 to Mike Domingo in S.Africa. This was also claimed to be ex Brise, and given the date of sale might have a better case. Any S.African correspondents care to help on this?
[Two Modus M3 went to ZA for the 76 series there, one brand new for Dave Charlton, who gave up on it and bought a March, and the other for Team Domingo.]

Did Sharp use Brise's rev counter I wonder, or the clutch pedal? Where do you get Modus parts these days, without using another car?

Just been reading a book at the library it also had the Sharp car as 047,said it had been used by Brise as an F3 before conversion to an Atlantic.Sharp had a big crash in the opening NZ race and the car was rebuilt before Emson took it over for the 4th race in the series,then he had his big crash in so there cant have been many original parts left on it.
The Nicholson/Francevic car was 066.

For the record I am the Senior Historic Eligibility Officer for C.A.M.S in Oz , handling the post 1960 Racing and Sports Racing cars and have been for some years.

Re. Modus, I have just 2 Months ago sold to dear brother the ex.Brise/Gygax/Nicholson/Frankevic Modus M1-022-F.A.75

Walkinshaw Modus, M5 / GAA, this was destroyed in snappy Tom's accident when he claimed the steering wheel broke, letter /article by I think Intertech, wheel manufacturer refuted this, seemed to be a case of Tom throwing car at closest hard object and then blaming broken steering wheel.
In 3 years worth of Modus info searching, I never found another mention of car, so maybe this car really was destroyed

Don't want to preempt a Modus debate, but M1-022? Brise - Gygax makes sense. The number makes sense for the car that Brise ran from mid season 75. But Nicholson - Francevic? I thought that was M3-066

Tell me more! Please?!

.

Modus .ref. at start of 75 series in autosport refers to a new car for Brise with different body and bulkheads. At first the way it is written made me think they had pulled the tub apart and then refettled it, but I dont't believe that happened. I think it was a brand new car. Brise used this car with good effect until Monaco F3 race where Autosport reports that he converted to Atlantic car .
He won 1 heat and was disputing final with [I can't remember] until Brise ran up the back wheel of ?????? and took them both out.
Atlantic support race British Grand Prix, Autosport reports Brise in newly built up car and Ruedi Gygax in Brise's ex Monaco F3, which is actually his reconverted Atlantic.
Brise crashes in practice in the F1 and run either but both Brise and Gygax are in Atlantic programme.
After this meeting Brise carries on to finish winning Atlantic c/ship in new car and it is even driven at least once by Tim Brise.
Meanwhile, John Nicholson does some sort of deal and runs the ex Gygax Atlantic car updated ???? in the last 4 rounds of the Southern Organs Series, damaging it at, if my memory is correct, Oulton Park, [QUOTE GIVING DAVE PRICES boys some work to do ]]
John must have purchased car, maybe on the 'you bend it, you own it' scheme, anyway I can't find any record of him using it in 1976, but real late in 76, they send it to N.Z. for the Peter Stuyvesant Series where he came 4th overall, then sold it to Robbie Frankievic.
The rest I can update some other time, however I rang John Nicholson just after buying car and asked him about it .
Fabulous conversation, about 1995, he absolutely refused to believe he ran the car in 1975 and said he was in Canada looking after his engine customers, until I insisted and faxed him the results out of Autosport.
I then phoned a few nights later and he said he still did not believe it except he had to because of the results and dates. He asked if I had got all the spares that went to N.Z. with the car, and when I said no, he said there was a /////load, so I got in touch with Ken Smith where both mine and the ex Sharp/Emson car came from, and sure enough Ken had some of them, namely the 4 front and 2 rear uprights which are the hard parts to replace.
After the Oulton Park crash, which crinkled tub, I rather think, but have no evidence that when the decision was made to go to N.Z. they slid a new tub in my car and that is how it comes to carry chassis pl. M1-022-F.A.75 ., but tub. no. is 054-7-76.
Modus was gone about now, end 76, after Teddy Savoury blew his brains out with a shotgun, and this could well be the last tub they did.

Another poser, at the Monaco F3 race, also entered, were Danny Sullivan in what was at least a semi-works entry and Ruedi Gygax. Gygax failed to qualify and Sullivan stuffed his into a tree or something, so they robbed Gygax's car for Sullivan.
I should have mentioned earlier I have acopy of the Modus works records, along with Marcus Pye and Peter Denty.
Did you know these existed ??????
Anyway, in that list originally scheduled by factory as works/brise.
But also shows 022 as 1976 car forMike/Joe Domingo in Sth. Africa with ex Gygax running gear.
Nobody had found the tub no. on my car until I discovered it, and the car very definitely carries the chassis plate to this day.
Iwill fill in the rest of the history of both N.Z. Modus soon.

Correction , what I should have said was list states 022 as originally scheduled by factory as works/Brise but also---------

Bryan

The Modus sales records! We've been looking for those [see related thread on the Dickson/Scott/Walkinshaw cars]. Do you have any other little gems tucked away there? I'm worried about my heart...

The Domingo car is described in race reports as "new" when it first appears and "ex Brise" later in the season. So we know we have a problem there.

Can you clarify a few of the more obvious Atlantic queries from the records? [I hope they're obvious, but the saga of your car suggests this isn't going to be the case.]
1: Brise's car mid 74 M1 or M3 converted F3 to Atlantic
2: M3 sold new to Dave Charlton end 75
3: M3s sold to Norman Dickson/Dicksons of Perth early 76. F1R list as 025 and 027.
4: M5 run by Tom Walkinshaw in F5000 at end 74 early 75 with GAA engine
5: M7 run by works for Grob in F2 in 76
6: Any sales to US or Canada
7: Is the Sharp-Empson car 047? [Another ex Brise car with a new tub? Perhaps the 74 car?]

I do agree with you about the unreliability of Vercoe's numbers in many areas. Allen Brown and I have certainly experienced this in researches on F5000. But the funny thing is that many of the numbers that David McKinney gave us last night tally with Vercoe [perhaps because Vercoe got his facts from Motoraction.]

Johnny Nick did spend a lot of time in Canada in '75 - he ran the Tui in the Players' series, where he did have a lot of customers. But funny how the memory plays tricks.

Snappy Tom's wheel breaking... I was reading about this yesterday. We are talking about the accident at the British GP Atlantic support race? Tom blamed everything but brain fade. The race report suggests that the car was absolutely totalled.
Are you saying that this car was the same one that Walkinshaw had raced in F5000 with the GAA, converted to Atlantic?

Chris, I thing faster than I type .
These are Atlantic portions of Modus records.
M1-009-FA Works car.

M4-011-SH 1975 Ken McMaster hillclimb car.

M5-021-F5 1975 Tom Walkinshaw 3.4 GA

M1-022-F.A.1975 scheduled by factory as works/Brise.

N.B.factory records also show 022 as 1976 car for Mike/Joe Domingo in Sth. Africa , with new 16swg. monocoque with ex Gygax running gear.

M3-024-F.A. 24-9-75 Dave Charlton , Sth. Africa Nicholson/McLaren B.D.A. N.M.E.047 ,F.T.200/1038

M3-025-F.A. 18/12/75 Dickons of Perth / Norman Dickson Nicholson McLaren N.M.E. 046 , F.T.200 /1039

M3-027-F.A. 18/12/75 Dickons of Perth / Richard Scott
own 2nd. hand eng. F.T.200/1043

M3-034-F.A. 1976

B.Miller notes .untill about 2 months ago this was for sale on internet , with ch.pl. photo which I saw and confirm as 034 ,said to have been Swiss Hillclimb car.
Silver and Pink . Will advise site name tomorrow.

M7-039-F2 1976 Works / Ian Grob.

M3-041-F.A. 1976 xxxxx Bentson U.S.A. production started 27/3/76.

Mi-047-F3 factory records show 1976 works/rental car

Do you have a fax no. and I will fax the whole lot .

That should keep you busy in the meantime.

I Need to check Autosport re Snappy Toms cars.,will advise.

Should add the F.T.200 in my car is 959 , so the date is about correct for the car given the numbers on the other Atlantic cars.

Chris , one thing on Modus is very clear that is , whilst M1 and M3 were supposed to mean different models all the race reports I am revisiting re. 022 change from 1 meeting to the next but it is still the same car.
Modus are just as big a mess as all other Marques , as we seem to have more Atlantic entities out and about than the ch. lists suggest.
E.G , as I believe I am correct in my 022 , see A/S july 24 p.44/45 , Nick Jordan had built up a new M1 round a new tub following Brands . See also where G ygax is reported in ex. Brise hired ex. Monaco F.3 chassis, see report A/S may 15 p26 , Tony Brise in his converted Atlantic Modus ,
to my mind this leaves us with no no. to allocate to the car built up for the British G.P. and after.???????

Re. Modus 034 ,untill about 6/8 weeks ago www.carclassic .com had it for sale,perhaps you can enquire of them they are based in Geneva .

Ha...
I'm a new boy here, but I noticed the question about Moduses (Modi ?). One of the Irish ones - don't know if it was the Donnelly or McGarrity car - was last seen in the hands of Pat Plunkett in Dublin. He had a couple of chunky accidents in it, the last when he tangled with a real, live mountain in a Galway hill climb. The mountain won.
I'm sure Pat is about somewhere, and may even read this.....

Richard

Hi and welcome to the madness of the histories of cars in the "lesser" formulae.

According to what Bryan Miller has sent me about Modus the Plunkett car was M3-027 and went from Dickson to Tyrrell Arnold for hillclimbs and then to Pat. It seems as though there was a spare Dickson tub at least M3-048 which was also raced by Ian Grob for the works, and this was the car that went to Kinnane for Donnelly. On this basis M3-025 should be the Nugent and McGarrity car. It would be good to hear from ex Atlantic racers in Ireland. I just discovered the other day that Patsy McGarrity also raced in the TT [the bike one] in the 1960s - must have been quite a boy.

A poor picture I know,but I just spotted it when I was surfing along,Robbie Francevic in the Typhoon sponsored Modus,prior to its rebuilding as the "Typhoon".It was pale yellow in colour.

Three Modus # 022 from Bryan' collection. Bryan may like to elaborate. #1 - John Nicholson.

#2 NZ Modus #022 Picture - Robbie Francovic.

Third picture - Robbie Francovic -revamped into Typhoon car.

The early Moduses [Modi?]

In the records that Bryan Miller has provided there is a gap in the production records for early cars

We have 001-F3, the car tested in January '74 and run by the works in F3 in UK driven by Arnott and Brise and
006-F3, a 1975 car sold to Mike Rand for Formula C.

Marcus Pye suggests that all these missing chassis are '75 production, but here are my suggestions.

[M1-002-F3] At Monaco F3 race, 1974 Modus turn up with two cars for Rudi Gygax and Tony Brise. Brise's car is described as new and unsorted. Gygax probably has 001-F3

After Monaco Modus start to race Brise's Monaco car in F.Atlantic - that's how contemporary reports describe it.

Tom Walkinshaw has two cars in 1974. There is a F.Atlantic, M3, destroyed in a very big accident at the British GP meeting when [allegedly] the steering wheel spokes broke.
Later in the '74 season he tests and debuts an M5 for F5000 with a GAA engine in the back, but this is not the same car as he races in F5000 in 1975 which is in the factory records as 021-F5 built in Jan/Feb '75.

So M3-003-FA
M5-004-F5

Clearly this leaves one other car of 1974 production which I can't readily track down. I think it might have been an F3 belonging to Jean-Louis Schlesser but does anyone have race results for '74 F3 which suggest that there were a couple of cars in circulation after mid-summer.

Chris, troublesome Chevrons and pesky Modus .
Surely if ACBC decreed the plural of Lotus was Lotus , then the same will apply re. Modus.

I have gone through all 1974 A/S .of which I have most copies. The following is presuming you have the article on Modus, A.S. nov. 14.

If you read and take at verbatim , then I end up with about 17 cars for 1974 .
No ch.no. allocated yet , way too early to do that.
Car 1 Works /Arnott.
Car 2 Super Vee Scharman/ Austria
Car 3 Built but not sold.Seemed to indicate F.SV.
Car 4 Atlantic for Brise.
Car 5 Atlantic for Walkinshaw.
Car 6 F5000 for Walkinshaw.
Car 7 Sports car in photo .
Car 8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17. allto Georg Obermoser , plus F2 car said to be ready for eng. in middle of year.
Car for sale by Ivor Goodwin , who ran the car at Silverstone in August 74 , sale adv. states car updated at factory to same spec. as Brise. However in 27/3/75 p7 Dick Parson's car is said to be in fact the chassis used by Brise at Monaco in 1974.
I have never been comfortable with some things in the ch.list.
I don't think M1-006-F3 is 75 , rather just about has to be 1974 , maybe Goodwin's and end 75/76 to U.S.A. for 77 season.
I think M1-009-FA. is probably Brise's, with maybe Walkinshaw as #4 or #5, as if you see one race report where both Brise and Tom finally make it to Silverstone in May , Brise's car literally just been finished that day.
Brise's was F3 based even running Mk.9 Hewland and F3 wheels .

That is my first go , you may have more info. available to you.
Bryan.

Chris, I missed typing this in, 27/2/75 Peter Clark has purchased the ex Brise/ Ivor Goodwin M3 and will run 75 as a F3.
That could be a bit of new chassis in one car and old chassis built up with new running gear ala March.
Maybe it is the old FA car turning into a newish F3.
Bryan.

Chris, tryed faxing you and Allen , Allen may have rec'd. 1 or 2 pages at best.Will post some F5000 stuff to Allen on Mon. so will send your's as well and he can get it to you.
I will include F3 only because it may help sort out Modus mysteries as at the British G.P. 75 we have 2 Atl./Brise and Gygax,and 6xF3 all at same meeting.
Bryan.

Modus M3-027 is looking a bit rough but still has life in it. Hopefully it will race this year.

Dave.

Smellybeard

You also seem to have the old Richard Scott Modus - a car with a good bit of history, and last heard of wrapped round an Irish mountain. Can you tell us more of how and when it came to you?

Perhaps on the Modus thread though [Title: Racing a la mode]

Chris

Smellybeard, when I sold my Modus to my brother he also was given 3 photo's of the 2 Dicksons of Perth M3 cars, certainly 1 photo must be before they raced and includes the team transporter , all complete with British Caledonian Airways livery and looking absolutely stunning in black and yellow two tone .
Kevin , if you see this can you pull photo's and place here.

Bryan.

Bryan

That 'black' is a royal blue. They did look good, and Dickson's ran a very professional outfit, all the way up to the Lotus 78 that Norman ran with Colin Bennett racing in the AFX series.

Chris

I will find the photo mentioned and post it on Thursday. Cheers, Kevin.

Photo 1 of Norman Dickson and Richard Scott cars and transporter circa 1976.

Photos 2 & 3 of Dickson car.

Try again.

Great!

I've just had a look at the bodywork of 027. The blue is much lighter than it appears here. Traces of yellow can still be found. I found the lion once during a fiberglass job.
I'll hunt out some pictures of it taken more recently. We ran it in an overall white with green trim and BARDAHL titles (it was sometimes called the BARSTOOL Modus).


Dave.

Smellybeard,Kevin. Thanks , if you wish to return car to same as it used to be , I think Kevin could have them copied at a Kodak shop .
Bryan.

Chris.
For a long time I have wondered where Tony Brise's Atlantic Modus from the British G.P. on went.
After use by Brise it was then used by brother Tim, then once?? by Danny Sullivan, all the above via A./S. reports.
But I could never find anything more untill today.
Ref.Autosport Nov. 20 1975. David Purley has hired Tony Brise's championship winning works F/Atlantic Modus just for the occasion, but was out of luck at the Macau G.P.

However, it appears that the hire may have turned into a sale as the report of the 1976 Macau race lists the car as the same car as used in 1975.
Entrant was Team Harper both times.
REF. is in pit and paddock under '' Macdonald at Macau.''
What I can't do is figure a ch.no. for it, I can't see how there is any way it could be -022 as Nicholson is about to send that to N.Z. and Nicholson did make any reference to Harper or Purley when I spoke to him.
Any trail on an ex. Harper / Purley Atlantic Modus out there.??
Bryan.

Let's see if I can engage 2nd gear on this Modus thread ( dog rings permitting !! ).
Mike Domingo went to the UK in October 75 shopping for an Atlantic, and on the advice of Dave Charlton went to see J.M. at Modus.The Domingos never got the kind of sponsership money that was available to others, so they generally bought second hand cars. Mike recalls that Jo was very accommodating and put together a package that was within the budget and included an engine from John Nic. Mike did some of the assembly work himself before shipping the car to S.Africa.
They used the car throughout 76 and sold it in early 77. It was badly damaged in its 3rd race with the new owner who had not yet paid in full, so they took it back, fixed the tub and it stood for 15 years. The current owner finished the assembly but it remains unraced since 77.
I have looked at Mikes handwritten notes of the trip, and although he refers to car as "ex Brise" and has details of "Brise set up " (being suspension settings) he has no invoice or chassis number, and does not recall a plate being on the car. Bearing in mind your records stating new tub and Gygax running gear, I cannot figure the link to Brise except a bit of salesmanship on the part of Jo M.
Maybe the running gear was off one of the 74 cars which was ex Brise/Gygax, so when the sale of the car to Mike was recorded the only Brise reference was 022 so it was noted against that. Certainly the FT200 with the car was delivered to Modus before the first Atlantic was completed, so maybe the link is to one of the early cars.

Ian.

It is good to have a co-conspiriter .
This is all from memory , but pretty accurate.
I can refer if needed.
If you have a look at page 1 or 2 of the Chevron B29 thread , if you have'nt seen that , you may care to look at my notes re. my car. I will still call it mine , even though my brother Kevin now owns it.

Brise had an Atlantic car in 1974 , which had non aero side pods etc.which could be M1-009-FA, even though the records state 1975 build.

Please note the records I have are reviewed versions done by Marcus Pye off the factory version , so we may/maynot have a perfect base to go from.
Also the note on the records says only started from ch.no. M1-007-F3.
Even though we have chassis plated M1-006-F3 now oned by Ron Mallard in Reno, Nevada, U.S.A.
Every thing I read about Brise's early 1975 Atlantic car suggests that it really was a test /development car, changing from 1 meeting to the next , and also having a pretty good accident.
All this continues up to the report for Monaco F3 race where Brise is reported in his converted Atlantic car in 1975.

At this meeting also competing were Ruedi Gygax and Danny Sullivan in their F3 cars , Sullivan's being described as '' works '' .
Sullivan stuck his into a tree and Ruedi Gygax had non qualified in his , so they robbed Gygax's car to get Sullivan mobile again.
Brise ran over the back of ' can't remember ' and d.n.fed

So the guys presumably took all this junk back to U.K. and had to get ready for the British G.P support Atlantic race the next weekend .
At that meeting both Brise and Gygax are in the Atlantic race , well sort of , as Brise did not start as he had an accident in the Hill F1 which he was also driving.
But the point is 2 Atl. cars existed at that meeting .
The report states Gygax in Brises Monaco F3 car , which has already been reported as his [ Brise's ] converted Atlantic.
Brise must have rec'd anew car for this important race and Gygax rec'd his hand me down.
After this meeting Brise/Gygax car goes to John Nicolson.

Brise's new car gets used at least once by his brother Tim in an Atlantic race which also includes Nicholson.

This leaves us with Gygax/Sullivan F3 composition 1 week prior to G.P , and the 2 Atlantic cars merrily going about their racing.

As you advise Mike Domingo in Oct. 75 on buying trip , and a deal was done , and the records 'state ' 022 as 1976???? for Mike and Joe Domingo with ex. Gygax running gear and new 16 swg. tub, I think that maybe they used Gygax's F3 running gear from his ex. Monaco remains , which gives us the Gygax connection and stitched up a new tub and sent them on their way.
The only thing that troubles me is why the 022 note .

Note Gygax's F3 car was ch. no. M1-020-F3 , listed as 1975 Works/Gygax.

If the Domingo car never had a plate as you believe , then it probably has an identity of ex Gygax F3 / rebuilt as Atlantic , and all the stuffing around with converting Brise's Atlantic back and forth and Gygax driving that car as well possibly confused them then, let alone us now.

I am happy to look at any scenarios , but the end result is my car still has M1-022-FA/75 plate on it.

The other car that I have no more knowledge of is Brise's post British G.P. car then used by Tim Brise , and then I found a note which said it was used by David Purley at Macau in 1975 and 1976 , but what then , and more importantly no factory record of it's identity, and it was built by mid 1975.

Regards Bryan.

P.S. maybe this will entice Chris back, and get him away from his Chevrons.

Bryan
Wow...all that from memory is very impressive.I don't have any other scenarios to offer,and agree that an original plate on an original constructers tub/chassis backed with good research is pretty conclusive.
What are your thoughts on the gearboxs,the Domingo car has FT 943 which was invoiced to Modus on 5/3/74 and yours is 959 which i guess was made a month or so later (any info ? ).I would have thought that a small company like Modus would only buy an expensive FT200 when an FA car was nearing completion,so maybe these were the only 2 during 1974.Would the F3 cars have had a Mk9 with MK5/F3 ratios ?
Regards
IAN

Brise's first Atlantic M3 debuts at John Player round 5 on May 12 1974. According to Autosport the car is 'completed in the early hours'.
At the same meeting is an M3 for Walkinshaw described as 'a week old'

At JP round 9, Brands Hatch July 20, Brise appears in an M1 with a BDA in the back and running F3 wheels for lower drag. At the same meeting Walkinshaw purees his M3 when the steering wheel breaks [as if].
Brise gets through a lot of accidents towards the end of '74 and may have done serious damage to the car at Mallory October 13 as he doesn't appear in any of the end of season races.

The Modus records seem to start at 006-F3, an M1 sold to Michael Rand and used in SCCA FC 1975-77
Wihout records we have to account for the following cars in 1974 which are known in race reports [There are only five which tallies with the gap in sales records]

A: The first car built [so M1-001-F3] for Bob Arnott in UK F3. Then Brise when Arnott wasn't quick enough. Used by Gygax at Monaco F3 [described as the Arnott car in a race report]. ?Peter Clark 1975 British F3? Then sold to Dud Moseley who built his S2000 Motus around it.

B: The Walkinshaw M3

C: The Brise M3

D: An M1 sold to Obermoser and raced by Peter Scharmann from May 74

E: The M5 F5000 car used by Walkinshaw in late season races.

I'm guessing that the FT gearboxes you guys have would have been for the Brise and Walkinshaw cars which appeared in May. So, Ian I think you are right, only two M3s in '74. Why Brise switches from the M3 back to an M1 I don't know. Maybe there was a testing accident?

The M1 with which Brise appears from JP9 onwards has to be a rebuilt works F3 car [so M1-001-F3]. When he appears at the start of 1975 it's with an M3 [009?]

Now back to those Chevrons!

Chris

Chris and Ian.

Chris you may have fallen in to the same trap I did early on,i.e. when they switched bodywork the press seemed to get confused and called the same car M1 or M3 , as from all my reading of race reports it appears to be the same car in the first half of 75 up untill Monaco.

What I have never seen ref. to is the 74 Brise Atlantic car in anybody else's hands.
The car seemed to dissapear as an Atlantic, I feel it was probably turned back into an F3 renta. or suchlike.
To back that up I remember reading in one race report that the car had a Mk9, so I feel this car probably at the end of 74 reverted .

What we also don't have is any identity / ch.no in the records relating to snappy toms 1st. Atlantic which was 1974 early , and after the accident there is a fair chance given tha FT 200 no. that it may have hung around and ended up in the Domingo car.
That being the case and if the FT200 no's are reasonably correct in as far as delivery , perhaps as Chris suggests near the end of 74 and Brise didn't appear again in Atlantic, his 74 gearbox went into his 1st. 75 Atlantic car which is my brothers, after a poss. accident that junked the 74 car.
Way back I stated that the 1st. round description of 1975 for Brise's car was confusing , you could read it 2 ways, one as a new style car with different bulkheads etc.and last years style suspension , or a seriously rebuilt 74 car rebuilt with new bulkheads etc.
I really don't know.
If the above is the caseone would expect it to have an earlier ch.pl. than 022.

I somehow dought we will ever solve this one,as a small company they would have done what ever was neccesary to go racing and at this distance we would be very lucky if anybody remembered the fine points we are talking about here.
Chris, I think M1-009-FA was more than likely not the early 75 Brise car , unless he destroyed it , then got 022 for the races up to Monaco then rec'd his 3rd Atlantic for 75 for the British G.P. 1975and used the gearbox etc. from the 009 which went into 022.

Best I can do.

Now back to answering pesky Australian Gold Star questions.

Bryan.

Ian.

Can you contact the current owner of the Domingo car , and see if they know where to look for the tub. number , as that may assist if it is still on the car.
On mine it is behind the drivers right hand shoulder , on the rear vertical alloy bulkhead , facing rearwards , that is on the eng. bay side , just under the support plate for the top radius rod pickup.
Also does the car have parallel link rear bottom off a cast mag. structure bolted to the FT200 by 4 1/2 unf bolts , or is it standard wishbone bottom.
Ours is paralell link.

Bryan.

Bryan,
The car has the magnesium plate and parallel links.As to a number,i will have to go and have a look myself as the owner is not really bothered about that type of thing.Notwithstanding this,thats all i have on the Domingo car,as you guys seem way ahead of me already.
The other not so pesky Modus to come here was of course the Dave Charlton car,which he sold mid 76 when his new March 76B arrived.Kevin Stopford bought the car,and scored a few points in the 77 FA Championship but damaged it badly late 77/78,and the tub was scrapped.The gearbox has appeared on a modified Sports 2000 and the rear corners on a locally built Tiga C2 type car.The rear uprights bear the casting number M2.Shame about that really.
Ian

Greetings.
Good to see this running again.

M3-027-FA rear uprights are also marked M2. Methinks the other Kinnane car was the same (it's a long time since I've seen it though). The parallel links are carried by a thick machined alloy plate bolted to the bottom of the FT200 (which carries the correct serial).
The chassis plate is opposite the gearchange lever.
The tub is stripped at the moment. I can take a few pictures if that would help anyone...


David.

Gentleman.

The plate under the gearbox is of course aluminium, not mag. my mistake, I have been working on my March which is a mag. plate , and the little grey cells malfunctioned.

I have a copy of the British G.P. programme for 1975 and the following Modus cars are in the support race for F3's.

Fritz Stehlin , Modus Ford/ Team Modus
Dick Parsons , Modus Ford/ Driver
Clive Baker , Modus Ford/ Southern-national Organs
Danny Sullivan , Modus Ford/ Team Modus
Peter Clark , Modus Ford/ Whisharts Garage
Eddie Cheever, Modus Ford/ Driver.

John Player Atlantic support race same meeting.

Tony Brise , / Team Modus
Ruedi Gygax, /Team Modus.

None of the above proves much , except the cars were quite popular at this time, except Danny Sullivan is in a car , but what is it???
This was only 1 or 2 weeks after Monaco ,and with 4 works entries Modus works would have been qquite busy.
If Sullivan's car was the same as used at Monaco , it is an amalgam of Gygax's and Sullivans, which I think was Gygax tub and Sullivan running gear , which allows us to have Gygax's suspension available to be kitted up [ Chris's word ] with a new 16 guage tub and put together in an accomadating deal for Mike Domingo a little later .

Yes the chassis plate is in the same position on Kevin's car.

The only way I can think of to progress this is to look at what existed at any one point in time.

1974.
2 Atlantic cars
1 x Brise
1 X Walkinshaw

Brise's could be a F3/FA mix.
Walkinshaw junks his very smartly.
One of these has to be , one would think M1-009-FA , despite the records supplied by Marcus Pye as listing 1975 , as this must be WRONG , as he lists all cars other than the 1st. as 1975 , and this is totally incorrect.

In 1975 I can identify,

Early car for Brise .
Later car for Brise .
A new car for Walkinshaw
Domingo's .
Dickson's of Perth , 2 cars M3-025-FA, Norman Dickson
M3-027-FA Richard Scott
Dave Charlton , Sth Africa M3-024-FA .

And poss. 75 build M3-034-FA , which was advertised on the internet about 6/12 months ago , with ch.pl. photo which I saw and confirm as 034 , this car seems to have been cloistered in Swiss Hillclimbs or somewhere, ran with Motul sponsorship.
I will post this then look at it to see if there are any faults so far.
Bryan.

Chris.

I am revieving my Modus notes and titbits as follows , all from Autosport , to save typing I won't give refs.

Debut supposed for Brise at Oulton Pk. May 5 74 ref. p2. 25-4-74. with a note another Atlantic car already gone to Walkinshaw.
Brise actually debuted at Silverstone and car called an M3 , P35 16-5-74 , Walkinshaw also out in his new M3.

At Oulton pk. 27-5-74 ''Brise ran works M3 Atlantic with some of the bits off his Monaco F3 car ''.
Mallory June 27-74 Tony Brise in the new ?? Modus M3 [ newish ] but with side pontoons , but running F3 wheels and tyres.
Snappy Tom also on grid.
Report Modus have Holbay F2 eng. and scheduled to run in F2 car at Karlskoga Aug..
Walkinshaw had new tapered side pods on for British G.P. Atlantic race July 25 .p.39.
Tom totals his car..
27-2-75 . Peter Clark purshased the ex. Tony Brise/Ivor Goodwin M3 and will run in 1975 as a F3.

Autosport report 13-3-75, ''Tony Brise in his revised M3 ,
carries most of the suspension from last years car , but has new bulkheads and sleeker bodywork''.



Also 27-3-75 p7. Dick Parsons with Modus ''in fact the chassis used by Brise at Monaco in 1974 and updated March 1975.

Other notes from 1974 .
Scharmann Modus 26-9-74 p39Sullivan out in F3 Modus ''ex. Brise/Monaco/N'ring only then sat around unused.''
Goodwin Racing for sale 10=10=74 Modus F3 [used Atlantic photo] ''just rebuilt by Modus, same spec as Brise's Atlantic except wings/wheels . 10-10-74 p68.
Brise damaged his Atlantic quite badly at Mallory 13-10-74

OOOOPS .

Autosport 24-10-74 p22 Brise D.N.S.'' concentrating on getting F.A and F5000 reeady after both damaged last weekend .
Modus article nov.14-74 p28 Marquart states concetrating on getting Obermosers 10 car order out of way at the end of nov.1974.
Photo of workshop with a sports car as well [Toj.].

Autosport 6-3-75 p23 Modus/Brise ''brand new car never turned a wheel ''

From that I now feel Brise had what looks like maybe 4 seperate Atlantic cars.

1 early 1974 , poss a combination car.
1 late 74 car after Mallory accident.
1 early 1975 car as above , this is the Gygax British G.P. car after reconversion then to Nicholson then N.Z.
Then the new built up car that is Brise's for the G.P. then his brother Tim and also Danny Sullivan as an Atlantic , then to David Purley Macau. 1975 and1976.

I would be most pleased to have anybody poke holes in any /all of the above.

Bryan.

Further .

The 2 Autosport quotes , 1 week apart are the ones that have kept me confused for about 8 years .

Autosport 6-3-75 p23 Modus/Brise ''brand new never turned a wheel.

Autosport 13-3-75, Tony Brise in his revised M3 , carries most of the suspension from last years car , but new bulkheads and sleeker bodywork.''

Are we talking the exact same components as last year , or the same spec. components as last year.
On one hand brand new can mean BRAND NEW , or it can mean brand newly built up with some older /last year bits.

Help.
Ian. somewhere in this mess is the origins of the Domingo brothers car I believe , as with all these rebuilds etc. going on , it is easy to see Jo Marquart being in a position to be accomadating as you put it.

Bryan.

These "new bulkheads" interest me. 027 has extensive and obvious additions to the rear bulkhead (and still gave trouble). Sometimes I think that Jo shuld have stuck to busses.
What do the "old" and "new" bulkheads look like?

David.

Good to see this thread running fast and hard again.

I have M5-021-F5 as Tom's late 1974 F5000 car - also from Marcus's data. As this car first races on 6 October (having appeared on entry lists since 8 Sept), I'd suggest it would be one of the very last 1974 numbers.

Interesting car, the M5. In three race appearances it managed just 2 competitive laps, an oil pump failure and two crashes. I guess the last crash, at Brands 20 Oct, was fatal for the car.

Allen

May/may not be of use.

From programme of May 9th 1976, two previously mentioned racers -

Car 111 Dicksons of Perth/Focus and Kinross Motor Auctions, driver Richard Scott, car Modus M3/Nicholson

Car 707 British Caledonian Airways/Dicksons of Perth,
driver Norman Dickson, car Modus Ms/Nicholson

Car no 2 a Modus M3/Nicholson was driven by Phil Sharp.

Bryan,
I agree,the Domingo car would have been a "bitsa" given the budget Mike had.I was wrong in saying it never ran again after the Simpson accident,it did come out a couple of times in 1979,although in most cases entries for the Modus were actually the Domingo's March 76B.
I presume the records for Modus are for actual cars built,and not a running total of all tubs built.For example,given the number of replacement tubs required by August '75,the Charlton car Ch no 24 would not have been built on tub 024-8-75,the tub number would have been higher by then.Any thoughts ?
Ian

Bryan,

Several months ago you suggested I join this site. I visited and lurked but didn't join. Did today after finding this thread.

You mentioned earlier that M1-006-F3 was with Ron Mallard. Ron sold it about 2 years ago in a 3 way deal and it is now also in Ohio. In fact, my M1-040-F3 is sitting beside it in a friend's shop.

Of particular interest is that the tub of that car (006)had been modified and the photos I had from Ron did not show the interesting details seen from the side of the front suspension. I have photos of the tub details which include a small riveted-in tubular sub-frame for the front suspension. It is the typical British grey structure and looks to me to have been there since new. Of course, the modified front roll hoop which this car has suffered hid all the uniqueness of this chassis.

Remember how Marcus Pye had described 001 as unique. I'll bet it was not and I'll bet this chassis is very much the same, but of course after sending the photos to him over 15 months ago, I have never received a reply.

Roger

Roger .

Great to see you here.

022 has triangular re-inforcing sections rivetted to strengthen the rear bulkhead,if I remember correctly, and also aluminium right angle sections rivetted into the bottom inside rear of tub.

Exactly what does the front section do on 006 ????

022 has a rivetted section on the front bulkhead , through which the master cyl. pushrods pass, is this what you are describing.

022 also has the very clever front support for the shock absorbers,that also ties in the whole of the front, but I think they all have this.

Bryan.

Allen

I don't believe that the F5000 car 021 that appeared in mid-75 was the same car that ran in late 74, or if it was it had a new number. What we have of the Modus works records suggests that the first big production run took place in early '75. If we believe that chassis 021 and 025 were 1975 cars, why do the contemporary records only show about 8 Moduses appearing?

The records from Marcus Pye show cars like McMaster's hillclimb car [011] and Mike Young's FSV [012] as early 75 completions. These cars definitely didn't appear in 74 - we know their owners used other cars. Why would 021 be completed and raced before them?
I believe that a minimum of 6 and maximum of ten Moduses were built in 1974.

Chris

Chris.

I think I have to go along with that .

It may be that Walkinshaws car was re-fetteled into a new version and had a new plate slapped on it.

Do you have any ideas re. the Obermoser/Toj cars , as per the article in Autosport that says 10 to be del. before end of Nov. 1974 , did these use up Modus production records or what , if they were counted then we are well past 15 or so built, or did they maybe go out as kits , and have a Toj ch.pl. on them and have no bearing on our considerations.

The records I have in front of me have MI-007-F3 AND M2-008-SV as going to Obermoser , and as Scharmann had an early car, which is probably -002 , 004 or 005 , and seems to have been run by Obermoser.

I really would like to see the original , before it was updated by Marcus , maybe we have some typo's here that is stuffing us up.

From one of my earlier postings , re. the car run by Danny Sullivan, it would seem correct to be M1-016-F3 / Works/Danny Sullivan, as this ties in with my note on the car run by Sullivan as ex. Brise, used only at Monaco / N'ring and then sat around at the works unused till Sullivan got his hands on it for F3.

Re. the Walkinshaw car , when was the first time we see Tom in a F5000 type car.

Bryan.

The above re. Sullivan is not correct as the statement was referring to his 1974 / september appearance, so this gives us 2 F3 cars which Sullivan used at least.

M1-016-F3 is probably the car he drove into the tree at Monaco in 1975 and poss. became a concoction of ex. Gygax. F3 and Sullivans F3. which the works put together at Monaco to get running again.

Bryan.

Allen.

What is the source for the late 1974 reports of Walkinshaw in the M5-021-F5 , F1R or another source.

If we can confirm that chassis number ran in 1974 , it really does look like the Obermoser connection used up a lot of ch.no's.

To the people that are not aware , Obermoser had had a business relationship prior to Modus, when he was also doing similar deals with the G.R.D company where Jo Marquart also resided, and again after the demise of Modus , this relationship carried on still into the time of the Modus successor Argo cars, which was still Jo Marquart's enterprise up untill his death.

Bryan.

Bryan

I think the Toj order is outside of the Modus records. There is a tranche of cars to Obermoser in early 75, but there are only 6 - a mixture of FSV and F3, which is probably people buying on the back of Scharman's competitiveness with the 1974 car.

Chris

027's rear bulkhead has a lot of steel added. This runs forward eight inches along theinsides of the tub. The bolt between the engine bay tubes and the closing rear crossmember broke in 1981 and a lot of the rivets popped. Inside the tub looked like the leftovers of a shootout.

There was (even before the big bang) obvious distorsion around the fuel fillers on either side. Look at the pick-ups for the top radius rods and the position of the holes for the fillers...



Dave

Dave.

022 uses the roll-over bar as a structual member , via 4 1/2'' bolts through the rear alloy bulkhead, two at the top and two at the bottom.

The roll bar is one continuos unit , that also picks up on the bottom the two other rear supports that run to the forward edge of the alloy gearbox parallel link plate , and pick up a seperate crossmember bolted to the fronf edge of the adaptor plate to stop the toque re-action from the drive trying to close the distance on the bottom plane between the adaptor plate and the rear of the rear bulkhead. Does your car have this still.

Apparently Ralt found out on the RT1's this was also a problem.

I wish I could draw on a computer.

What I am trying to say is ,given the size of the roll-over bar , approx. 1.5'' dia. and the way it is supported to the tub, I wonder if at some time your car was run with out the bottom type of extra fixed radius rods, and the chassis was trying to twist itself in half.

How is the engine attached in yours, as I had to send drawings to our new poster Roger [ Neptune ] so he could figure out how it all worked.

022 has supports from the top rear shock pick-ups down to the rear of the block and then small subframes at the front which again tie into the roll-over bar assembly.

The standard Ford eng. mtg. on the block are not utilised.

Is yours the same , if it has a BDD in it or any Ford for that matter.?????????????

Bryan/ Chris & all,

I have digital photos of the subframe area of 006. This is totally unlike anything in 040. The front bulkhead in 040 and 022 has the upper front pickup point for the front end of the upper wishbone. If you remember Ron's photos of 006, (I think I sent some of them to you, didn't I), there is a rod end screwed into the subframe which appeared in Ron's photos to be the added front roll hoop structure required by SCCA in later years. But all Ron's photos were from above. When looking in the side of the tub, this front hoop structure is not what the rod end is attached to, but rather, a grey painted 1" square tube subframe. It basically is enclosed in the tub and provides front suspension pick-ups. On 040, there is another partial 1/4" thick bulkhead at the rear end of the front suspension. There is no thick partial bulkhead on 006.

As we have discussed earlier, Bryan, 040 has a bladder in the RH sponson, giving half the volume of a FAtl, but 006 has a wedge cell behind the seat dated 1974 and English. Another difference is the upper radius rod pickup point on 006 is on the side of the tub, but on 040, it is on top.

If you remember, you sent me pictures of the ex-Jack Stevens 002 after Jack had restored it. I see none of the 006 traits in those photos. I guess I should also say I am not the owner of 006, only 040, but I moved my car into my friend's shop before 006 was delivered to him. At that time, we felt 006 had been modified mercilessly and would require a new tub, and my car would then be the pattern for that new tub. Today we realise this is probably not going to be the case and 006 will probably be restored w/ most of it's unique features intact, but with the missing pieces modeled after my car. It will still probably require a new tub, but my car will be of limited use as a model.

Roger

Hi all

I guess I have been talking rubbish!

As I don't have 1975 UK F5000 results yet (hint, hint :) ), I saw the results from Tom's 1974 racing and put that together with the M5-021-F5 entry in the data put together by Marcus Pye (that Bryan FAX'd me IIRC). If, as Chris says, the 1974 and 1975 F5000 Modus cars were different, then I agree M5-021-F5 was the 1975 car and I don't know the identity of the 1974 car.

To answer Bryan's question, Tom first raced the 1974 car on 6 Oct.

Allen

Carrera

That reference you gave to the programme with the Scott and Dickson entries...
Would it be for a '76 Indyatlantic round?

Indylantic '76 Round 2 May 9th Brands Hatch

2 Phil Sharp Modus M3/Nicholson
111 Richard Scott Modus M3/Nicholson
707 Norman Dickson Modus Ms/Nicholson

Bryan,

If you'll remember the Gotti modular wheels I got with the Modus that didn't fit it. I was told by Don that he'd acquired them to try to adapt them to the Modus to make it into an Atlantic car, but never did. He told me the came off a Jerry Hanson FAtl car. Any chance they might fit this 460? What is the pin PCD and how many pins are there?

Roger

Bryan/Chris
The tub number is 043-2-76 , exactly where you said i should look.The 3 has lost its bottom half due to somebody hacking a 1 inch hole through the bulkhead at some stage,so there is a slight possibilty it could be a 7.However,i had a really good look ,and comparing to the 7 in 76,i am 99% sure it is a 3.
Surley built after both the Domingo and Charlton cars had arrived here ??
Ian

Ian.

Isn't that interesting , is that the timeframe for the car, Feb. 1976 tub.

022 , is 054-7-76 , so July 1976.

Does the build of the car with a Feb. 76 tub allow enough time to have the car completed and over to your neck of the woods to start racing . Do you have a def. del. date into Sth. Africa from anybody.

Or are we looking at a replacement tub that everybody over there has forgotten happened.

To answer an earlier query by yourself , I can't concieve that the tub no. and the chassis no's would have lined up.


Roger , what happened to the M1-006 photo, lost in cyberspace somewhere.
Re. wheels , I will be looking at Col. Haste's new car in a few weeks and equire as to specs.

Chris, I will also advise all previous owners in SCCA logs if it is o.k. with Col. , which I have no dought it will be, but from what he has told me so far , it seems it only did SCCA races and didn't venture into Canada.

Regards All Bryan.

Chris/Roger.

I just realised I answered both of your questions over on the Modus thread . sorry about that.
Bryan.

Chris. You never came back in reply to the Brabham BT28/9/30/35/36 question.

Will I start another thread, I have dug up all sorts of Lovveerrlly info. ??????????????

Bryan.

Bryan,
I agree,the tub build date of Feb 76 seems too late to have been the original tub for either the Domingo or Charlton cars,which both did the first Atlantic race Jan 24 76.Nobody has ever mentioned a replacement/spare tub,although we know that both cars had big accidents in '77.Is there any mention of 043 on the records ?
Ian

Bryan/ All,
All the photos I have are larger than what can be attached to a message. I'll have to make less detailed versions from the originals to get them onto the site.

On another parallel thread, perhaps not started yet, I was out on the NW corner of town this morning and dropped into Geof's shop and the TOJ 205 sports racer is still there. I didn't have my camera with me and I know the car is for sale (I thought it had already sold) If this is what I think it is, it should say Modus on all the suspension castings etc, as I think this is the correct Model to have been made during Obermoser's purchase from Modus, and not the earlier GRD or later Argo models. I didn't see a chassis # plate in the cockpit today, but there ought to be one and I'm curious if it says Modus or TOJ. This also relates back to Gunther's F3 Toyota powered car on the left coast that he claimed was a TOJ and has cahssis # plate M1-016-F3. Seems like someone earlier in this thread posed a query about 016.

Roger

All.

The Dave Charlton car M3-025-FA is according to the records ex. works 24-9-1975, which is easy to get the car over , sorted and in it's 1st. race on Jan. 24 1976.

How we can have a Feb. 76 build tub on the grid a month before it is built is beyond me . So we have to presume this is a replacement tub , but for which car .

Ian are you sure this is the ex. Domingo tub , and somewhere over the years the ex. Charlton tub hasn't become entangled, it has happened plenty of times over here.

Roger .

If the TOJ has a plate this will tell us a lot, as long as it is a Modus build as opposed to a GRD build.

Ian , you asked about 043.
According to the records , M1-043-F3 , sold to Interauto , in Italy as the agent.
As I said yesterday , virtually impossible to expect tub and chassis numbers to coincide except on the first few cars , and then not for too long a period, due to rebuilds.

Roger , I had forgotten that M1-016 -F3 was over there , I have just pulled out the photo's you sent.

I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE UNADULTERATED RECORDS BEFORE , Marcus updated them.

This is listed as M1-016-F3 , 1975 works/Danny Sullivan, looks like it then went to Gunnar Nordstrom as a Toj Eurorace entry , and later made it's way to the USA.
From the photo's you sent it still has it's 2.0 litre Toyota on injection , what class would it have run in the states, do you know when it came into the US.???????????

Bryan.

Bryan,
Yesterdays mission was to double check the Domingo entries for 24/1/76 and 10/2/76,both sources confirmed Modus on both dates.So the tub must have been a spare ordered with the cars and delivered later, or a replacement after a racing incident.Generally,only Scheckter and Charlton had the backing for a full spares set up.
So now i must check for entanglement as you say,more than likely seen as both cars were crashed by 1978 and only 1 ever appears again in 1979.I cannot think of 2 more difficult parties to untangle,the combined sum of cars owned/driven by the Domingos and Charlton is mind boggling.
Thankyou for details on car 043.If your tub is one of the last (7/76),does this give about 7 more numbered tubs than numbered cars ?
Best
Ian

Ian.

It is only supposition on my part that 054 is very late built. No evidence to back it up, only that Modus went soon after, and Argo was up and running by the new year under Jo Marquart. The JM1 Argo was just a continuation of the M3/4 Modus series.

In the fullness of time, we may come across a later tub. no. Who knows?

Don't fall into the trap of expecting all numbers and production sheets etc. etc. to be anything like accurate, in the rush to get cars on the grid, there could easily be room for un-numbered tubs to appear.

Certainly, what is possibly 047 that is in Australia, as ex. Phil Sharp / Steve Emson, does not have a tub. no. as the car had a good accident in N.Z. in period and the kindly folk at Air New Zealand assisted in virtually a complete new tub.

I have already looked for it on this car and none exists.

Roger .

Does your car have a tub. no. I can't remember if I asked you this years ago or not.??????????????

Bryan.

Bryan/ All,

No, you told me where to look on the rear bulkhead and I can find nothing anywhere on it, but it seems that both yours and my car experienced severe accidents when they were new. Seems like you sent me an AS article that showed Brett Riley writing off 040 at 1st outing and that is why you had me look for a replacement tub #. Never found any at all and there is no evidence of any major shunts on the tub.

Not sure when Gunther imported 016. He may have told me at one time. But I believe it was hillclimbed for many years on the continent and especially in Germany or Netherlands by two brothers and that is part of the meaning of the GB or BG script on the car. I haven't looked at those photos for a while but IIRC, it was gold w/ a Warsteiner logo too. When I started work on the spare tail I was able to purchase from him, I very carefully removed, more or less intact, the decals to keep.

I've often wondered about the sports cars made for TOJ. That AS article you sent me on the works showed one being built there. But, there is no mention of it(them) in Marcus' "updated" lists. Wonder what would have happened or perhapos did happen if a UK purchaser wanted to by a sports racer direct from Watton? I guess I looked half-heartedly for a chassis plate in the TOJ yesterday, but forgot that my real interest was to see if there are any mention of Modus on it, or on the suspension castings. Geof said it may be sold by this next weekend, but even at that, the new owner may leave it in his shop to be maintained an transported for him. Again, this goes back to how I'd like to see the original records too. I know that my next trip to the UK will find me wanting to spend as much time as allowed with whatever Peter would allow me to see/ copy/ record etc.

One other thing: Anyone have any front upright casting, hub etc spares? I have a pair of rears, but no spare fronts.

Roger

Reduced size photo of M1-006 subframe.

Note: The grey subframe si perceived to be original. The black stuff riveted in is known to be part of recent bodge to have front roll hoop.

2nd photo

I just got this from Marcus Pye - I'm still trying to get him to join the thread. Apologies if some/most/all of this is old news.

Allen

MODUS CARS

M1 = 1974-1976 F3/Atlantic
M2 = 1975-1976 Formula Super Vee
M3 = 1975-1976 Formula Atlantic (at least one became an Atlantic)
M4 = 1975Formula 2 (some doubled-up as Atlantics)
M5 = 1975 Formula 5000 (3.4-litre V6) one-off
M6 = 1975 Formula Super Renault, two-off
M7 = 1976 Formula 2, one-off

M1-009-FA: 1975 works car (Tony Brise), with hybrid M1-FA designation.

M1-022-FA: Originally scheduled by factory as works/Tony Brise car. Chassis plate shows M1-022-FA75 - possibly driven in British GP support race at Silverstone by Jo Marquart's Swiss compatriot and long-time customer Rudi Gygax.

To David Price Racing for John Nicholson. Crashed first time out at Oulton Park, October '75. Apparently rebuilt on monocoque 054-7-76. Raced in UK '76, then taken to New Zealand at the end of the year for 1977 summer (European winter) series: 4th Bay Park; 4th Pukekohe; 4th Manfeild; DNF Teretonga; 4th Wigram. Fourth in championship, won by Keke Rosberg in Chevron B34.

Car now with Bryan Miller of Pilli Pilli, Australia. "Original gearbox," which was FT200 955. Raced in Historic events by Miller and his brother to date.

NB: Factory records also show 022 as 1976 car for Mike & Joe Domingo in South Africa - "new 16swg monocoque with ex-Gygax running gear."

M3-024-FA: Delivered 24/9/75 to Dave Charlton (South Africa). Nicholson-McLaren BDA engine NME047 and FT200 1038.
Charlton did not get on with the car - after his F1exploits, the new SA national series did not appeal either - and crashed it.This car is still in South Africa, in bits. I have the reclusive owner's name on file somewhere, and will be happy to supply it to you when I find it.

M3-025-FA: Delivered 18/12/75 to Dicksons of Perth (Scotland) for Norman Dickson. Nicholson-McLaren BDA NME046 and FT200 1039.

Sold to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland) with 027, for Patsy McGarrity to race in Irish Formula Atlantic.

M3-027-FA: Delivered 18/12/75 to Dicksons of Perth (Scotland) for Richard Scott. Own second-hand engine and FT200 1043.
Sold to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland), with 025, for Patsy McGarrity to race in Irish Formula Atlantic.
Sold to Mike Nugent (Ireland)
Sold to Tyrrell Arnold (Ireland)
Sold to Patrick Plunkett (Dublin, Ireland). Plunkett crashed it very heavily on The Corkscrew hillclimb, at Ballyalban, County Clare, in the 1980s. He retains the wreck, and has talked about rebuilding it, but has not progressed the project.

M3-034-FA: Sold to Switzerland for hillclimbing 1976. Apparently won Swiss championship. Three owners to end of 2000, when for sale with either Ford BDM or BMW M12 engine.

M3-041-FA: To Bentson (USA). Production started 27/3/76.

M1-047-F3: Factory records shows 1976 works/rental car. Actually bought by ex-patriate Kiwi Phil Sharpe as "development F3 chassis and pile of bits" end of 1975 (possibly ex-Brise?). Sharpe, a gifted fabricator, made all the pedals, brackets, etc. Built up at Dave Price Racing's Twickenham workshops using parts "begged, borrowed and scrounged fron F1," including heavy-duty Hewland FGA gearbox. Raced in Indylantic and ShellSport Group 8 races 1976. "Development narrow-track rear end caused snap oversteer." Taken to Sharpe's native New Zealand at end of season for summer (European winter) series: Crashed at Tauranga's Bay Park circuit. "Rebuilt tub in Auckland with Kevin Stone, using rear bulkhead and one inner skin, and engineer at Air New Zealand folded other tub skins around wooden former made by my father. Raced at Pukekohe the following weekend, then ran out of money."

Sold by Sharpe to Steve Empson (New Zealand).
Subsequently sold to Vivian King, Sydney (Australia) and prepared by Grahame Watson.

FACTORY RECORDS FINISH AFTER M1-047-F3:

M3-048-F2: 1976 (tub 048-3-76), claimed as F2/Atlantic car for Dicksons of Perth/British Caledonian Airways car. Was this a car hurriedly put together to save face with star drivers when the unique works M7 F2 proved an 'orange elephant?'

Did this go with 025 and 027 to Gerry Kinnane (Northern Ireland)?
Sold via dealer Brian McGinley (Northern Ireland), having been through at least two other owners to David Marsh (Bingley, Yorkshire). Offered for sale on his behalf by Jim and Richard Evans (Yorkshire) late-'90s.

Believed now with Martin Brockhouse (Leeds, Yorkshire).

M1-054-76: Replacement for tub 022-75, later 054-7-76. See previous cases...
NB: Ex-factory staff told me that the last car they made was the M3 which David Purley took to Macau in November 1976, as Team Harper entry (qualified 6th). Some doubt is cast on this by Macau GP book, which says it was the same car as Bob Harper's team ran there in 1975, when Purley qualified on pole. Engine blew in the race.



ADDITIONAL NOTES, for your information:

Another car is believed still to be in South Africa.

George Scott - now late, I believe - in Northern Ireland based his famous Scottclimber hillclimb car on Modus suspension and parts. Whether this was a rolling chassis or a spares cache (from Kinnane, perhaps?) I have not yet been able to ascertain.

M4-011-SH (for speed hillclimbing), the unique 1975-built F2-derived hillclimb car in which Ken MacMaster won the Pontypool round of the RAC British Hillclimb Championship in 1976, had 2-litre BDG, 2-litre Hart 420S and 2.2-litre Hart 420R engines in MacMaster's ownership, 1975-1978. It subsequently was fitted with a Formula Atlantic-specification 1600cc BDA when Jim Campbell (Scotland) owned it, and shared it with Tom MacMillan in 1981.

Sold by Campbell to Kevin Timms (Bath).
Sold by Timms to Barry Groombridge (Newton Abbot, Devon) 1987. He put it back to 2-litre Hart 420S spec for '89.

Sold by Groombridge to Brian McGinley (Northern Ireland) end 1989.
Sold by McGinley to Neil White (Belfast, NI). White later installed a 2.5-litre Hart engine.
Rolling chassis sold by White, at auction, to Steve Worrad.
NB: Although it has competed in Formula Atlantic trim, this has always been a Hillclimb and Sprint car, with small tanks, small brakes and high-downforce bodywork.

M2--012-SV: 1975 works Formula Super Vee chassis, raced by Mike Young (Woodbridge, Suffolk) in European and British Championship events, in Wallspan livery.

Sold to Alan Smith (Bolton) for FSV 1976. Sold to Rob Moores (Bolton) for FSV 1977. Sold to Dieter Carroll (Stockport) and converted to Formula Atlantic spec 1978.

That'll be Phil Sharp then

So, Mr. Brown, what happened to all the info Marcus had in the same list on the F3 cars, SV and FR. My car was shown on this information page a couple of years ago. I also think Marcus has lost a lot of his interest in Modus and I understood just about all they had were for sale.

Since MP seems to be the only one to have seen these factory records, what, if any, is shown concerning the sports racers Modus produced. For starters, what was the model designation?

Roger

Roger

I've asked Marcus to join the thread. The poor chap has four or five jobs at the moment and I know he doesn't have the time he'd like for his racing. Now the season is winding down, I hope he'll have time to drop in and share what he knows.

The list you refer to is one that has passed from hand to hand and I don't think anyone has it in electronic form except, perhaps, Marcus. I only have it as a FAX dated August 1998. My guess is that the information he emailed me today is designed as an update to his 1998 list.

Did Modus produce sports races? I didn't know that. I've looked through the FAX and can't find any mention of one built as a sports racer though there is the Motus and I notice M1-040-F3 was converted to a sports racer in the US.

Allen

Allen,

Yes, M1-040 was converted to a sports racer, but then converted back. I own it. It only ran 2 races and one SCCA drivers school in that configuration, but unfortunately, the DPO that did the conversion cut up the body, nose and engine cover to fit the March body to it. Last actively raced in 1987.

The tub is untouched, so I am working on either buying another body or creating a mold from an M2 about 500 miles away. I have already located and purchased an engine cover and currently have the later style nose that is part of the M1-006 package and I am repairing it so that it can be the plug for a mold to be shared with the owner of 006. The bodywork on 006 is the older 2 piece style and seems to be narrower in places. The side pods on 006 do not match mine on 040 either, so that is why I am trying to source another body.

As far as I know, the only SRs that Modus produced were sold as TOJ. The AS article written by Chris Witty in, I think, early 1975 shows a SR being built in the works. But, if you've seen the rest of Marcus' list, you'll note that there are a number of formula cars sold to Obermoser, and one would assume these to then have gone on to customers as TOJ. Did they have Modus chassis tags? Lots of other questions????

There is a TOJ 205 in a shop about 15 miles from home, but I work in the opposite direction and get home after they nornally close. I saw the car just last Monday, but didn't have my camera, so I didn't ask to see under the body. I glanced in the cockpit and didn't see a chassis tag, but maybe it was where I couldn't see it as I stood outside. I will try to get back there sometime soon w/ camera.

Roger

I have repro nose badges made up. High quality, not just a vinyl sticker. Exact copy of original except it is on a thin metal base, thus more durable than original.

Nice one Neptune !.
Bryan,no further news on the spare/replacement tub to the Domingo's/Charlton,except an Autosport from September(?) 1975 stating that Charlton has ordered "a couple" of Modus chassis,which could mean anything.Hoping to see him next week .
Ian

Ian and Roger.

I haven't forgotten things Modus, Allen has kept me busy with Australian matters.

As yet no-one can assist with the Toj / Modus tie-up in regard to chassis plates/numbers .

It will be interesting to hear if Dave Charlton can add anything to assist.

The other thing that intrigues me , is we have never heard a wispher in regard to the ,car that sales records say went to Bentson in the U.S.A.

Regards Bryan.

Lynn Bentson appears at Atlantic Motorsports Park, Halifax on 8.8,76
with a Modus M3
Qualified 25th, only have top 13 finishers for this race and he's outside of them.

This seems to be the only pro-Atlantic appearance for the car. I guess it ran SCCA most of the time.

Chris

Chris,

Very interesting find. I had called SCCA about "Bentson", but I didn't have a first name. Still, there is no record of him being a current SCCA member. I believe Marcus' list says North America, not USA, so I wonder if he might have been Canadian, eh?

It just happens to be that I joined SCCA over the winter of '77-78, and although I haven't searched my back issues of "Sports Car" lately, I could find no mention of him in the year end results of '78 SCCA club racing.

There were also 3 FSV M2s sold directly to Zeitler in the USA and to date, I have only been able to find one of the 3.

When I did the repro nose badges, I had about 50 made, so I have supplies of these if anyone requires one.

Roger

Bryan,
It will probably be the 31st before I can get back to Geof's shop to look at the TOJ sports racer. I'll take my camera because I'm interested in what is cast into the mag hub carriers etc. I can't imagine Jo had them special made w/ TOJ cast in.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that Jo picked up the Lotus system of part numbering while he was there. So parts of the front suspension are numbered "model#"-C-####. Since the early 60s, Lotus used the model number for the 1st 2 or 3 digits, then a A for chassis, B for body, C: front suspension, D: rear suspension, E: engine.....and you will note that the front hub carriers are M1-C-###, just as he must have learned at Cheshunt/Hethel.

Roger

I believe we may have found the number of the Walkinshaw M3 from 1974 [the one destroyed at the British GP]

Just occasionally drivers put the chassis numbers of their cars in an entry list along with the model number, by mistake - I've got a few programmes where this happens and Dan Rear, in a wonderful batch of Atlantic material, has included the race at Mallory on 23rd June '74.
Walkinshaw describes his car as "Modus FA-003". Given that the works entry for Brise in the same programme is for "M1" I think that Tom - not having a model number for his new car - has just put down what's on the plate.

Obscure Modus drivers and Atlantic Modus's
If you though Lynn Bentson was difficult, who on earth was Abadilla [no first name] who drove a Modus in the 1976 Batu Tiga GP?

Chris

Another few tidbits of Modus history are located in Autosport, 4 Nov '76, coverage of the season ending F3 race at Thruxton, 31 Oct.

The Modus "team" cars were no-shows, the result of the failed company. This may have been the 1st indictor of failure.

Malcolm Kay, Steven South's mediator, qualified, but did not race the Modus M1 ex-Parsons car that had been used 1 week earlier by John Stokes @ Brands Hatch.

Many years later, 1997, when Ron and I contacted Mike Rand who owned and drove first M1-006 in 1977 and then M1-040 in 1980 SCCA national races, established an ownership trail by saying that he had bought M1-006 from Malcolm Kay in February 1977. This would seem to indicate that this ex-Parsons car was 006. We may never know who else drove it early in it's existance.

This same Thruxton race was Brett Riley's last outing in my Modus, M1-040-F3. John Fowler was also in UK Feb '77 looking for a car. He looked at M1-006 first, but then bought M1-040 the next day from Brett @ David Price's shop. Both cars came to the US then and were converted to SCCA FC with Cosworth injected BDJ motors.

I have photos of both cars from Mike and 006 remained in team colors of orange, black and white through Mike's ownership, but 040 was white with Brett, then yellow after John brought it to the US.

Roger

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
I believe we may have found the number of the Walkinshaw M3 from 1974 [the one destroyed at the British GP]

Just occasionally drivers put the chassis numbers of their cars in an entry list along with the model number, by mistake - I've got a few programmes where this happens and Dan Rear, in a wonderful batch of Atlantic material, has included the race at Mallory on 23rd June '74.
Walkinshaw describes his car as "Modus FA-003". Given that the works entry for Brise in the same programme is for "M1" I think that Tom - not having a model number for his new car - has just put down what's on the plate... Chris

Could this crashed car have been the basis of the F5000 Modus that appeared that following October? Are any of theses early numbers still unaccounted for?

Allen

Allen

It was, apparently, a very big accident at the British GP, so I'd guess not much...

If I'm right I think the 1974 production stacks up to five, with the first two being M1s [the second the car used by Brise at Monaco and then run in Atlantic], then Walkinshaw's 003, then the Scharman M1, then the F5000 as 005

Chris

Chris

Sorry if I'm asking a question that has already been answered above, but have you now established the first appearances of the six or seven or eight Modus cars to appear in 1974?

Allen

Allen

001-F3, start of season for Bob Arnott, then Brise and Gygax at Monaco. Stays as F3 car for works, sold to Peter Clark 1975

002-F3 Probably: Debut for Brise at Monaco, then converted to FAt. Written off at end of year at Mallory

003-FA Probably: Tom Walkinshaw, debut 12.5 Silverstone

004-F3 Probably: May, Peter Scharmann, German F3

005-F5 Probably: Walkinshaw testing late September

006-F3 Either a late season works car or the first car of '75. Then you are into the definite '75 production I think.

Chris

Chris,

When Bryan & I discussed this several years ago, soon after I saw the 1st photos of 006, we surmissed it had to have been a '74 car, partly by virtue of Marcus list and the official works chassis data sheets start at 007. But I suppose 006 could have started in '74 but not finished or required until 1975. Then there is the issue of it's strange square section tubular sub-frames riveted into the front of the tub, pretty much replacing the 1/4" thick alloy front bulkhead w/ this structure and a sheet front panel. See photos a couple pages back of 006 tub today.

Marcus supposedly has the bare tub from #001 and stated in his chassis listing that it was unique. I wonder how unique it is compared to 006. I have sent him photos of 006 by way of a mutual friend, since I have no email direct contact to him, but I have never heard a reply in nearly 2 years.

Roger

Roger

I've just emailed Marcus asking him to have another try at registering. That was the only thing holding him up.

I know he's been following this thread but just hasn't had time to get involved (yet!).

Allen

Allen,

That's great. Marcus has more information on these cars than all the rest of us put together. His input will be very welcome.

Roger

Allen.

Hopefully Marcus can get hooked up, I know it took me about a week to figure it out.



Chris.

Can't agree with your scenario re. the first 6 cars.

Reasons.
Both Gygax and Brise had their own cars at Monaco 1974 A/s May 30th p.39 , Gygax's referred to as a Team car.

A/S reports Arnott at the following Silverstone 16-3-74 3rd. Thruxton 23-3-74 5th. At Oulton 15-4-74 , no engine available, then reports A/S Arnott at Mallory end April, then car being hired out to ?????????????? this reported 4/5May.

By Monaco I think Gygax gets the works renta. 001 ?????

Please note Marcus lists all cars as 1975 except 001, typo , so until Marcus hooks up , we don't even know if the Works records which state -007 and on are 1975 is correct.

Next A/S 30-5-74 p.40 , reports Brise at Oulton Park with some of the bits off his Monaco F3 car . This is referring to Brise's Atlantic car.
So at this point we have 2 x def. entities for Brise , an F3 car and a F/ Atlantic car as well as The works renta ex. Gygax Monaco.
Also Scharmann car in Europe , and Tom Walkinshaw in his F/Atlantic.

By 4-7-74 Arnotts car is for sale p.7.
The article states Tony Brise , who got married last weekend , will almost certainly have his first F2 outing in the works Modus at Karlskoga in August . The Holbay eng. is already at the Watton factory and the chassis is being completed.
Modus have announced that they will not be participating in F3 any more this year and the car which Bob Arnott drove early in the year is for sale.

O.K. we know the F2 thing didn't happen , but they state the chassis was being completed.Poss. this became Snappy's F5000.????????????
I still refer back to the Modus article , which states big batch of cars for Obermoser to be gone by end Nov.1974.

Tom totalls his car on 20-7-74 at the British G.P.

At the very least I believe M1-009-FA is also 1974 build , and this is Brise's car which gets played with via sidepods , wheels bodywork etc.

Marcus's list gives M6-010-FR as 1/75 to Alain Vignais [agent] as a Formula Renault.

Sounds like we can give -003 to Tom Walkinshaws Atlantic , at least for the time being, very short life car that one , about 3 months.

Bryan.

To go back a little way, does anyone know whether the ex FSV M2 that Dieter Carroll had in 79 ever raced as an Atlantic ? I know it was entered in early 79 races, did it ever make it onto the track.
Dan

Bryan,
There is a picture of a Modus Formula (Super) Renault in Autosport on 13/2/75,with the great contradiction of being identical to the F3 car with completley revised bodywork !!
Probably 010 ?
Ian

Well that begs to know what is the "completely revised bodywork"? Does this mean the end of the two piece upper body? What is the latest car w/ two piece upper body?

Both 006 and 040 have their original sidepods intact. They are different. 006 has less shape at the front and the "coke bottle" shape of 040 is less apparent on 006. The pair of Dzus fasteners that go thru the nose and front edge of the upper body are in different locations. This is somewhat compounded by the fact that 006 has had the panel removed that covers the drivers legs, the dash support and the tube across the front of that panel which becomes the upper mount for the spring/ shock units and replaced w/ a larger diameter round tube structure that kept the car legal SCCA w/ a front roll hoop.

But, I am reworking one of the two noses that came w/ it to become a mold plug for both cars. It is the later nose w/ the built in splitter, rather than the aluminum bottom flange the earlier one has. The mounting locations are all wrong for my car and pre-date the front roll hoop structure.
So, I'm filling all the mounting locations on that nose and our molded noses will be neutral and can be drilled to fit either car. I would like to use the body from 006 to create a mold for the edges that were hacked off 040 when it was butchered into a sports racer, but the body shape is similar, but not the same. ie: I have tried to fit the front part of the upper body off 006 to the side pods of 040 but it is quite evident they were not meant to go together.

Roger

Whilst trolling for Brabham info. I came across the following.
Autosport 12-1-1978 , Single seaters in Eire.

Gerry Kinnane is again running a Modus for Des Donnelly.
John Pollock is also to run a Modus.
Mike Nugent will probably continue to run his M3 Modus.
David Hall is replacing his 1.3 Imp Superloon with a Modus.

This article referred to Irish Atlantic for 1978, and is written by Marcus Pye. page 41.

If these all happened , that makes a truckload of Atlantic Modus.
As at this point 022 and what we know as 047 are both in New Zealand for the Atlantic series .
Bryan.

As far as I can remember, only the Donnelly and Nugent cars actually appeared. I don't remember seeing john Pollock in a Modus - although I could be wrong, and I think David Hall ended up with a Suzuki modsaloon based on an RT1....

Just to add to this item, whilst looking at other things, I noted in 82 Monoposto at Mallory, Geoff Jackson had M1-044, presumably an ex-F3 car. Any help to anyone ?

Finally got to look at the TOJ sports racer. I'll try to post some photos later. Nameplate (chassis #) is a TOJ item, w/ their address and a chassis # unique to TOJ. It's a little scraped up, but the model 205 is part of the number.

Very strange; it has a cast alloy front bulkhead and the lower corners of the front lower wishbones locate onto other small castings riveted into the monocoque. The rear uprights proudly proclaim their heritage as M2 items and although the fronts appear similar, I see no Modus cast in ident at the front. Pin pattern on hub is same 3-3/4 PCD.

Roger

Not sure how much interest there is in this:

Bryan, Do you have the original Autosport issue of Chris Witty's visit to the works? Can you see if the front bulkhead of the SR is a casting?

Roger

Has anyone ever seen one of these chassis plates on a single seater. This one on the 205 sports racer.

Toj single seaters. Well the Hodges book says a number of Modus F3 cars, M1s, were re-badged as Toj for the German market.

Then a few F2 cars were made, for Rosberg/Heyer, maybe one or 2 others. Klaus Walz used one in an Aurora round in 78, not very well i'd add. Even Keke/Heyer couldn't get much out of them. I presume they were designed by Marquart, along the lines of the Modus M7, which also came out in 76, and was c--p too!!

I wonder if any of these still exist, the F3 or F2 cars. I believe the Modus M7 is still around somewhere over here (UK), did Hadfield have a go in it a few years ago ??

I was talking to Simon Hadfield a few minutes ago. He's delighted we're taking on Atlantics and offered any help he could give. He said he has three at the moment: a 80A, a B39 and a Modus.

Allen

Dan,

My point is that Formula Cars, A-Z says that Modus F3, FSV and FR were sold as TOJ. Was there actually any difference? WERE THEY REBADGED??? or were they just sold as TOJ w/ Modus chassis number plates? Maybe Modus chassis plates and TOJ nose badges even? The number on this sports racer is not an M# and the F cars that were sold through TOJ were alocated Modus M-chassis numbers. Just wondering if those numbers were stamped into Modus tags, as we've suspected all along, or TOJ tags, such as this one.

I also don't see how you can call the cars c**p, since the F3 and FAtl showed quite well in period. The M7 doesn't seem to have gone well at all, but then again, I've never heard of either of it's drivers to go on to bigger and better things either. I'm sure today, anyone wishing to make it go could probably sort it out given enough cash thrown at it.

Roger

Roger.

There is a hell of a lot of interest .
And I agree with you Roger , the M7 was a one off , and for any number of reasons , probably time and money , didn't work.

What we must not lose sight of , is the state of the U.K. economy at this time, by the end of 1977 Modus was well gone , with Ted Savoury deceased, and these things don't happen overnight , so possibly even in 1976 there may have been indications of problems arrising , and therefor not enought money to throw at a F2 project.

The F3 and F/Atlantic were certainly effective , also the Argos were well regarded, and an Argo , in it's early stage , i.e. JM1 were very little more than next years Modus underneath a diff. badge.

I will have a look at the Autosport article.

Bryan.

Bryan,

I thought Modus was totaly dead and gone in Nov '76. The M7 was a '76 model, wasn't it. My 040 was built in April '76 and came to the US in Feb '77. Argo was formed before end of '76. Did Argo take over the Modus works building. Or did they move a couple of miles down the road to Griston?

Roger

Re. the poor old M7, in Autosport 1977 sometime, Lodge Corner Agencies were desperately trying to sell it incl. plans and it took a while before the adv. disappeared.

Roger/Bryan

Sorry if I mislead you on the Modi. Quite agree the F3/At cars were execellent, I always rooted for them as the 'underdogs' against the usual March hordes ! When I said the cars were c==p, I only meant the M7. I guess you're right that maybe it didn't have the best chance in life, but I thought Grob was a reasonable driver in Gp6 and F3 later, so wouldn't blame all its failings on the driver.

As I recall he later went back to an F2 M3 for a few UK Group 8 races, so I presume he agreed the older car was better than the M7. Btw what was that car, the F2 M3, it wasn't one of the Dicksons cars, which both went pretty well that year in both F2 and Atlantic spec.

I also agree on the Argo JM1, pretty similar to the Modi, siginificantly Marquart made that car on the lines of the original Modi, NOT the M7-type design !!

Allen, what do we know about Simon H's cars, specifically the B39 and 80A. Is the latter one of the cars that Richard Young has spied in Ireland per chance ??

A shot of the RR corner of the 205 SR. Note "Modus" cast into the rear upright.

To restart this one, does anyone know what happened to TW's F5000 M5? Was it completely written off?

Also what about the 1975 FSV M2, that Mike Young had, then various others until it turned up as an Atlantic entry for Dieter Carroll in '79. Did it ever race in that series ? I presume other M2s were made for Euro FSV around that time, to Germany as TOJs maybe, or perhaps referred to still as M2s.

I thought Walkinshaw totally destroyed the second M5 (021) at Zolder in 1975.

I think Allen's contributions on various pages of this thread suggest that the first one wasn't rebuilt after the accident in the last race of 1974

I've heard nothing of either M5 since. Who would know? Shall we try asking Tom?

Oulton Park 26 May 1975
(I.e. http://www.oldracingcars.com/F5000/results/result.asp?RaceID=B75G)
Crawford - Chevron B29 [15]
Brise - Modus M1 [009]
Mallock - March 75B [U-1]
Choularton - Chevron B29 [19]
Wentz - Lola T360 [7]
Spitzley - Chevron B29 [25]
May - Lola T360B [5]
Sharp - Lyncar [005]
Lawler - Chevron B29 [6]
Perry - March 742 [23]
Riley - Chevron B29 [4]

Silverstone 19 Jul 1975
(i.e. http://www.oldracingcars.com/F5000/results/result.asp?RaceID=B75J)
McGarrity - Chevron [7]
Gugax - Modus [20-F3]
Pollock - Chevron [12]
Donnelly - March [73B-8]

Hi everyone, My name is Steve Emson and I am the person you have referred to in the above threads concerning my old Modus
I believe this car is in Australia. This all happened a long time ago when I was only 19/20 years old. If you need my help with this matter, I will try and remember events about this car.

Welcome aboard Steve. I haven't seen Dan post on this list for a while, so I'll welcome you and ask you to continue w/ your story of what happened to the M5. I'll bet Brian will be surprised and interested too.

Roger

Welcome Steve,

I had been advised you were in Brisbane and running in historics in a Mustang ??

Interestingly your old car has just come on the market , as owner is updating to an RT4/86.

Your old car along with about 25 others will be at Sandown Park 5/6/7 November for the inagural race in the John Bowe Trophy Series , for Historic Formula Atlantic and European F2 cars , 1st round of the series [ 5 rounds ] through into 2005 .

If you are down that way come and have a look.

Regards Bryan.

Thanks Bryan,
It is possible that i may be down for that meeting.I have driven a car in group c touring cars the last couple of years in our historic meeting at Queensland Raceway.The cars belong to John Harris a keen collector here in Queensland. My own car is a group Nc Falcon which i have won two state championships with, but now just sits in my shed. I really do not actively do much driving these days as you get other distractions. I hope to meet up with you one of these days. JH is taking 6 cars to Warrick ( Morgan Park) in two weeks so i will get another run there in the Ex Dick Johnson Bryan Byrt Ford XC Falcon hardtop.
Cheers Steve.

That Ozzie meeting sounds good, let us know what turns up chaps.

On the Modus front, anyone know about the Tim Barrington Derek Bell car? Is it a real FAt, or a converted F3. I suspect the latter, as I gather Marcus Pye has/had some involvement with it, and IIRC he was well into Toyota F3 some time ago.

Chris/Allen.

Adam's notes really have had me thinking , but not enough time to respond.

Allen. Re the Atlantic results 1975 U.K.
You have Brise in the same car all year i.e. 009 , not so ,
The report for the British G.P. in Autosport advises new car just finished the day before, albeit neither Brise or Gygax started .
The Monaco meeting for F3's the week before is stated in Autosport as having Brise in his converted Atlantic , which was reconverted the week after for Gygax for the British G.P. support Atlantic race.
Now Adam Ferrington advises ch. no. 020-F3.
Now that is an F3 tub under an F/Atlantic at theBritish G.P.

To recap at Monaco we had 3 x Modus to be concerned with,
one car for Danny Sullivan [ Works ]
one car for Gygax [ renta ]
one car for Brise [ converted Atlantic according to Autosport].
At the end of the weekend three things had happened.
1. Gygax did not qualify and his car was used to repair Sullivans , who had stuffed his up a tree .
2. so we then had a combination of two F3 cars used by Sullivan for the rest of the weekend
3. Brise's car tried to mount another car whilst disputing the lead in the final , so his car is also damaged to some degree.

Now the merry Modus lads get to drag these sorry cars back to the U.K. and get ready for the British G.P.

Autosport reports that Gygax's car at the G.P. is Brise's re-re-converted car , but Adam reports an F3 020 ch.no.
Certainly not 009 , and not as I expected M1-022-FA/75.

So it appears that the lads swapped bits around everywhere to get the cars mobile , this also allows the car to go to the Domingo brothers in Sth. Africa , in the works records to be reported as new 16 guage tub with ex Gygax running gear , ex Gygax what , F3 is my guess .
Meanwhile Brises G.P Atlantic car is reported as being finished the night before the race , is this a NEW car or a newly built up re-incarnation of a whole bunch of bits from the previous weekend.

What I am trying to say is 009 was not used by Brise all year in Atlantic , given the above he probably had as I said a long while ago 3 x seperate entities through 1975, as there is an even newer car appearing for him for mainly the Southern Organ rounds.This car going to David Purley for Macau G.P. I believe.

Going thru' some old 1976 A/Sports, and fascinating they are too, I note Sir Nick Williamson in a 2-litre M3 at a July Ingliston meeting. I presume an F3 chassis, the race was won by the Dicksons M3, Norman D beating Scott.
Also, and later that year at the Phoenix Park Grand prix, Derek Daly is out in an Atlantic Modus. As a guess was this the Phil Sharpe car ??

Any ideas on these 2, chaps ???

But Dan, an M3 is a FAtl chassis, not F3. Was this a F3 restrictor engine or a 2-litre F2 motor.

Dan,

If I had to guess the 2.litre car may have been the McMaster Hart 2.0 litre , which had been built new as a hillclimb car .
The other would not be the Phil Sharp car in that time frame , as just about then it would have been in New Zealand for the Stuyvesant series starting Jan. 1977.

Regards Bryan.

Neptune/Brian, think you're right on the Williamson car, it may well have been listed as an M1. Were any owned by Scots around that time, mid-76 ? On the Daly car, that meet was Sept 76 I think, so it could have just about been the Sharpe one.

But Bryan, Wasn't the McMaster the first, maybe only M4 F2 car. Not that it really matters other than the model on the tag. Sure looks like they were all the same tub pattern except for the very early (1974 models) which had a square tube subframe in the nose and the M7 F2 car(s). Obviously the brakes, power train and rear suspension varied by model, but it sure looks like they all shared the same tub.

Roger

Roger, the car according to the records had plate M4H , but it would be a std. tub with special hillclimb bits , like small fuel cell etc.
Dan , yes there were a few Modus Atlantics in Ireland , and as all old racing cars travel quite easily , maybe it was one of those.
Bryan.

Roger. I told you all this months ago when I gave you some photos. You should repaint it metallic blue as it was when owned by Stockbridge Racing .( John Fenning)

Bryan,

Probably like my F3 car with only the RH cell. No LH one, in fact the water tube runs through the LH sponsoon, if you'll remember the details of my photos. That would be the easy way to do it. Actually, since I'm going to be making a new cell for M1-40, I think it will be shorter than original, since I'll never need that much fuel for any race the car will do today.

Chaps, re the M4. The car Grob used later in the 76 F2 season, after he'd given up on the M7, was titled an M4. Logically, I guess it was built new as an F2 car, not an Atlantic liked the Dicksons M3s, so maybe thats why they called it so.

Glancing thru' an MN at the weekend, I noticed there was a 'Modus M4' out in a Derek Bell race at HSCC Croft last week, as well as the Tilley M1. Is this the ex-MacMaster Climbing car does anyone know ??

One of the big differences with a car built for a Hart is the size of the engine bay. A lot of cars that were designed take a BD or M12 won't take a 420. I think the big difference between an M3 and M4 is the size of the engine bay. M3-027 (R.Scott) has two full leinght fuel tanks. At a guess I'd say they hold 25 gallons.

Does an M4 have an FG or FT box?

Doesn't Marcus Pye's list only show one M4, which was the McAllister car. Since the engine bay is a bolt-on subframe, I suppose it would be simple enough to swap to that of another model.

My M1-040 has a RH full length bladder, nothing on the left. I know early F3 cars and at least some of the FSVs had a wedge tank behind the seat, but later must have gone to 1/2 the capacity of a M3 FAtl.

Since the Dickson [and perhaps Scott's] car ran in G8 races with BDX engine rather than the BDA, as a kind of F2-Atlantic hybrid - and given the length of those races over Indyatlantic, wouldn't they have been fitted up with twin tanks like an F2?

Chris

Both the Atlantic cars over here had/have twin bag tanks , as does my March, however it is the capacity of the tanks that will differ between F2 and F/ Atlantic as both need both tanks fitted.
Re. the M4 , Ken McMaster had the M4H for U.K. hills with firstly a 2.0 litre Hart , then enlarged to 2.2 litres.
Yes the Hart 420R is a long engine and may have dictated a slightly longer eng. frame arrangement.
There are 3 cars that are possible for the car you are discussing ,
1] McMaster's car .
2] the M7 F2 car , which if my memory is correct Marcus Pye tried to get me interested in purchasing , however it may have been the remains of the M4 F2 car.
3] Whichev