Lola T280 [Archive] - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum

Michael Oliver

5 Sep 2003, 15:07

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
thanks Michael for infos about D Rouveyran .
Now I'm sure that HU01 was not destroy in this accident.
JL Lafosse had an accident with an T280 in practice of 9 H
Kyalami 1972 and the car couldnt start the race . Do you
know something about ?

Hi Alain

Jeremy has already answered this question - it was indeed a T282 entered by Ecurie Bonnier, crashed by J-L Lafosse and, by all accounts, written off, and probably the prototype as driven by Beltoise/Larrousse at Rouen in October.

Just having a quick look through my old Autosports re the 72 season for clues about chassis numbers:

It appears that HU-02 was driven by Bonnier/Wisell in Buenos Aires, with Larrousse/Craft sharing the prototype HU-01. The magazine reports a plan to sell them and run them for Karl von Wendt being 'apparently quite likely'. However, in the next sentence it says that after the race 'the Wisell car was sold...to a Brazilian driver' but does not say who (one can maybe assume Garcia-Veiga?). This suggests that HU-02 was sold but in fact Wisell drove both cars in the race, switching to the Larrousse/Craft T280 after his own retired. If we know that HU-02 was still with the team at Le Mans, this suggests that they may have sold the older prototype, HU-01, which would make more sense.

However, for the next race at Daytona, Garcia-Veiga was entered in the second car, alongside Craft and Larrousse, so maybe Bonnier did a deal such as suggested with von Wendt, e.g. they sold the car but continued running it for Garcia-Veiga and pairing him with their own drivers? Alternatively, maybe they never sold the car at all, but struck a deal for Garcia-Vega to drive it (e.g. sold a race drive) at Sebring and this was mis-reported as Garcia-Veiga having bought the whole car!

For Sebring, they are reported as only bringing one car, HU-02, for Bonnier/Wisell/Larrousse. For Round 4 at Brands Hatch, I know 2 Bonnier cars started, as there is a picture of them just after the start of the race. A few other interesting points: "By contrast to all these operations, that of Ecurie Bonnier is very much a shoestring effort. Their Lola-Cosworth T280s, the only two in existence, looked rather travel weary and were in need of some real development testing." Drivers for this race were Craft/Larousse (HU-01?) and Wisell/Bonnier (HU-02?). When the Craft car retired early on, Larousse switched to the Wisell/Bonnier car until that retired at about half distance (don't think JoBo drove but not 100% sure).

For Monza 1,000 kms, Hughes de Fierlandt replaced Craft as Larousse's partner, because he brought some money along... Both cars qualified well but went out of the race early on again.

For Round 6 (Spa 1,000kms) it appears that HU-01 may have actually been sold, as it reports Larrousse as driving "Lola number two after driving the original car all the rest of the season" and he shared with de Fierlandt. Wisell/Bonnier might have been originally entered but they don't appear to have turned up.

Don't think any T280s started Round 7, the Targa Florio. Ditto Round 8, Nurburgring 1,000kms, although Bonnier/Larousse were present driving an FVC-powered T290. I believe that by this stage the two cars were being prepared for Le Mans, with a reported 48,000 man hours being put into the task.

For Le Mans, two cars were fielded for Bonnier/Larrousse/van Lennep (Wisell was injured apparently)and de Fierlandt/Jorge de Bagration/Mario Cabral. Maybe the identities of two of the co-drivers is an indication that this second car had been sold before Le Mans to a Spanish or Portugese owner (sorry don't know the nationalities of these two!)? The Bonnier car (HU-02?) was destroyed in JoBo's fatal accident, while the de Fierland/de Bagration/Cabral car (which had also been driven by Larousse, in fact don't even know if de B and Cab got a drive) retired around midnight.

The following weekend (June 18th), Carlos Caspar is reported as winning the sports car race at Estoril in his "Lola-DFV T280". So, either this is HU-01 (or HU-02 depending on which car Bonnier was driving when he crashed!), ex-Le Mans or a new car. It seems this might have been a new car (HU-03?) because for the next round of the World Sportscar Championship at Osterreichring (June 25th), Vic Elford appears, partnered by Larrousse, "driving the Ecurie Bonnier second Lola T280 which had also appeared at Le Mans". By definition this can only be the car driven by de Fierlandt et al and it really depends how you interpret the use of the words "Ecurie Bonnier second Lola T280", e.g. if it was the number two car in the squad (which is what I think they mean) or the second T280 built (e.g HU-02)!!! They actually out-qualified all the Ferrari 312Ps for this race, only being beaten to pole by the Mirage. Not bad!

For Round 11, at Watkins Glen (July 22nd), Larrousse was paird with Wisell and Autosport reports that "The Lola was No. 1, and appeared in usual configuration..." Since its race number was 90, one can only assume that this is a reference to the car being chassis HU-01, again supporting the conclusion that it was HU-02 that was destroyed in the Bonnier accident.

For a sports car race at Estoril, November 11th 1972, Carlos Caspar is reported as a 'no-show' in his "3-litre Lola T280", apparently after sponsorship difficulties.

So this leaves us with three reported T280s that have appeared in public during the 1972 racing season.

In its season review of Group 5 sportscar racing, Autosport adds a few more tidbits:

"They were to have been run with sponsorship from Karl von Wendt's racing team, but when von Wendt withdrew after everything had been ordered, the cars were run at Bonnier's expense. They were even supported by his preparation business or BonGrip spike concern. With such an expensive project - around £100,000 invested - Bonnier was forced to take 'paying' drivers...

"The car's debut at Buenos Aires saw it leading at one stage and set fastest lap - a fat that, one would have expected, would make many private entrants think of running a car. This was what Ecurie Bonnier had hoped (Bonnier was the European agent for Lola cars) but surprisingly only one other car was sold throughout the year and this was never raced in Europe."

An interesting comment, particularly in the light of the fact that we know that Caspar raced his at Estoril in June! Maybe the writer didn't regard Portugal as being part of Europe!!!

As Jeremy pointed out, the Paris 1,000kms car was the prototype T282. NB although a T280 is listed in the grid for Smith/Ligonnet, this is actually a misprint and is the 2-litre T290 they had raced that year.

You probably already know a lot of this detail but I hope some bits of it are useful!

Cheers

Michael

josvandeperre

5 Sep 2003, 15:12

Does anyone remember an article in the Evening Standard years ago about a bloke in kent who had a road legal DFV powered T280 (I think - tho it may have been a later model)

Michael Oliver

5 Sep 2003, 16:39

Originally posted by josvandeperre
Does anyone remember an article in the Evening Standard years ago about a bloke in kent who had a road legal DFV powered T280 (I think - tho it may have been a later model)

Sounds like the sort of thing Nick Whiting would have done, being into Special Saloons and all that sort of thing!

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

5 Sep 2003, 17:09

Michael,

Thanks for the detailed summary. Didn't get around tying all the Autosport comments together, and I completely missed the Gaspar reference at Estoril in June. Bonnier definitely didn't send cars to the Targa or Nürburgring. I tend to go for HU03 for Gaspar's car (this would then become Rouveyran's, contrary to what I supposed earlier on!), but it's only an opinion.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a T280 appeared in MNGT events here driven by Jeremy Lord in 73-74, but I don't know if that was a previously unused chassis or not.

Jeremy

Michael Oliver

5 Sep 2003, 19:02

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

Thanks for the detailed summary. Didn't get around tying all the Autosport comments together, and I completely missed the Gaspar reference at Estoril in June. Bonnier definitely didn't send cars to the Targa or Nürburgring. I tend to go for HU03 for Gaspar's car (this would then become Rouveyran's, contrary to what I supposed earlier on!), but it's only an opinion.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a T280 appeared in MNGT events here driven by Jeremy Lord in 73-74, but I don't know if that was a previously unused chassis or not.

Jeremy
Jeremy

I've just been digging around a bit more and it seems the Bonnier cars contested a few other races, such as two Interserie rounds (but DNS at both of them 3/4/72 Ring and 1/5/72 Imola, plus de Fierlandt/Bonnier won the 4 hours of Le Mans on the Le Mans test day weekend (19/4/72).

Also Gaspar raced his T280 at Vila Real 9/7/72 and finished 3rd, then Casoni finished 5th in a T280 in the 500km of Imola 17/9/72. Maybe Gaspar sold his car to Casoni due to the reported sponsorship problems I mentioned earlier?

Takahara drove three races in a T280 in Japan, all at Mt Fuji Raceway. These were 3/9/72 (1st), 10/10/72 (1st) and 23/11/72 (1st). As the last World Championship round took place in the US on 22/7/72, it is reasonable to put forward the suggestion that Takahara bought/borrowed the surviving Ecurie Bonnier car, HU-01, but I don't have any firm evidence to back this up. In any case, I think they are unlikely to be the same car, because the dates overlap.

I'm currently looking into 1973, where Rouvreyan appears several times as well as a Jolly Club entry. Presumably the Rouvreyan car could be the ex-Gaspar/Casoni car, while the Jolly Club car was (I know someone mentioned this) an ex-Bonnier car - perhaps the one used by Takahara at the end of 1972? Lots of perhaps and maybes!

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

5 Sep 2003, 20:02

Michael,

I knew about the Interserie races, and the LM race, but not about Takahara.

Autosport's 1973 Dijon report says that Rouveyran's was the ex-BIP chassis, which was Gaspar's. Just found Autosport's 1972 Vila Real report that says "Gaspar's new T280, the only one apart from the one surviving Bonnier car. Gaspar took delivery in early June... etc"
Seems a shame that there are some T290 chassis numbers quoted in this report, and not this one...

Casoni's car at Imola was hired by Brescia Corse from Bonnier.

Cheers

Jeremy

Alain HACHE

7 Sep 2003, 13:09

Hello
thanks at all for details , my opinion about Carlos Gaspar
T280 is probably chassis HU03 because Bonnier team could not in the week after Le Mans restaure HU01 and send it to Estoril to race at 18 of June . ( not enought time , team
shoked by Bonnier death ) .
Other important thing : on Gaspar car the "arceau de sécurité " was like HU01 and 2 before Monza (driver head protection only ) and HU01 had an larger at Le Mans and Zeltweg.I think this part of the chassis was not fast interchangeable . I have a picture of the car but I don't know how join it in message
all the best at all
Alain

Michael Oliver

9 Sep 2003, 14:28

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

I knew about the Interserie races, and the LM race, but not about Takahara.

Autosport's 1973 Dijon report says that Rouveyran's was the ex-BIP chassis, which was Gaspar's. Just found Autosport's 1972 Vila Real report that says "Gaspar's new T280, the only one apart from the one surviving Bonnier car. Gaspar took delivery in early June... etc"
Seems a shame that there are some T290 chassis numbers quoted in this report, and not this one...

Casoni's car at Imola was hired by Brescia Corse from Bonnier.

Cheers

Jeremy

OK, seems a good bet that Gaspar's car was HU-03. But what about Takahara's car? Maybe Gaspar rented it out to him before selling it on to Rouvreyan over the winter? Because if Casoni rented a car for the Sept Imola race from Bonnier it could only have been HU-01, as the Imola and Japan races overlap in data terms. HU-02 was already written off so either Takahara drove HU-03 or another car HU-04 and I've not seen anything that suggests more than 3 T280s were built. What do you reckon?

Cheers

Michael

Michael Oliver

9 Sep 2003, 14:31

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
Hello
thanks at all for details , my opinion about Carlos Gaspar
T280 is probably chassis HU03 because Bonnier team could not in the week after Le Mans restaure HU01 and send it to Estoril to race at 18 of June . ( not enought time , team
shoked by Bonnier death ) .
Other important thing : on Gaspar car the "arceau de sécurité " was like HU01 and 2 before Monza (driver head protection only ) and HU01 had an larger at Le Mans and Zeltweg.I think this part of the chassis was not fast interchangeable . I have a picture of the car but I don't know how join it in message
all the best at all
Alain

Hi Alain

By 'arceau de securite' do you mean the roll-over hoop/bar? I am at home today and all my Autosports are in my office, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see what you mean. But I agree it is unlikely that Gaspar's car could have been any other chassis as we know that the Bonnier team raced HU-01 several more times that year.

Regards

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

9 Sep 2003, 15:03

Michael,

Agree with gaspar for HU03. I know Martin Krejci's data has T280-Ford for Takahara in a few Grand Champion races, I don't suppose there's confirmation anywhere else, like Autosport? I have a lot from 68-76, but I don't have a complete set.

The reason being: I have some Italian results in the mid-70s for a T280 - Ford, but it was actually a 2-litre, whcih is more than likely a T290. I suppose the point is, was it a T280?

If there were only 3, which would be the Jeremy Lord chassis, and for that matter, the car that Mallock/Wild used in 1983 Thundersports?

Michael Oliver

9 Sep 2003, 23:43

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

Agree with gaspar for HU03. I know Martin Krejci's data has T280-Ford for Takahara in a few Grand Champion races, I don't suppose there's confirmation anywhere else, like Autosport? I have a lot from 68-76, but I don't have a complete set.

The reason being: I have some Italian results in the mid-70s for a T280 - Ford, but it was actually a 2-litre, whcih is more than likely a T290. I suppose the point is, was it a T280?

If there were only 3, which would be the Jeremy Lord chassis, and for that matter, the car that Mallock/Wild used in 1983 Thundersports?

Well, if HU-03 went to Rouvreyan and he was killed in mid-73, it is possible that it was sold, maybe to Lord? And this was also the Mallock/Wilds car? OTOH, it could be HU-01 I guess, so we need some harder evidence really, which would involve talking to the people concerned.

Re Takahara, I'll look in AS, as I have a full set for that period.

Michael

Alain HACHE

10 Sep 2003, 11:52

Michael
yes I think we can translate "arceau de sécurité" to roll over hoop/ bar ,sorry for my bad english.
On differents pictures I am owner 4 types of roll over hoop
bar exist : first for HU01 and 2 in the beginning of 1972
second version at Monza 1000 Kms with a welded bar on the left of the car ( also Le Mans version ) . A third is the
symmetrical on the car winner of Paris 1000 Kms and the last for T282 284 and 286 cars .
The Gaspar car at Estoril is with the first type so we can
say that its an another chassis than HU01 and 2, we suppose HU03 .
If HU 003 was Rouveyran car in 1973 , I think Casoni car
was not HU001 because on picture of the car after Nurburgring the roll over hoop / bar seem to be like car
winner of Paris 1000 Kms .
2 years ago C FOX solded an T280 and telled to me that was
chassis HU005 .... I will try to contact it again to confirm me that and to know car's story . In case of that
who was HU004 owner ? TAKAHARA ?
à bientôt

Michael Oliver

10 Sep 2003, 15:22

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
Michael
yes I think we can translate "arceau de sécurité" to roll over hoop/ bar ,sorry for my bad english.
On differents pictures I am owner 4 types of roll over hoop
bar exist : first for HU01 and 2 in the beginning of 1972
second version at Monza 1000 Kms with a welded bar on the left of the car ( also Le Mans version ) . A third is the
symmetrical on the car winner of Paris 1000 Kms and the last for T282 284 and 286 cars .
The Gaspar car at Estoril is with the first type so we can
say that its an another chassis than HU01 and 2, we suppose HU03 .
If HU 003 was Rouveyran car in 1973 , I think Casoni car
was not HU001 because on picture of the car after Nurburgring the roll over hoop / bar seem to be like car
winner of Paris 1000 Kms .
2 years ago C FOX solded an T280 and telled to me that was
chassis HU005 .... I will try to contact it again to confirm me that and to know car's story . In case of that
who was HU004 owner ? TAKAHARA ?
à bientôt

Hi Alain

You don't need to apologise for your English - it is much better than my French!!!

I've been reading through my Autosports again and have found some more useful information!:)

Vila Real report, Autosport 13/7/72 p8

"Heading the list was Carlos Gaspar with his new 3-litre Lola-DFV T280, the only 3-litre Lola at present running apart from the one surviving Bonnier car. Gaspar took delivery of the car early in June, tested it at Jarama and then went to the opening meeting at Estoril, where he won against a poor field of seven cars, lapping Roger Heavens three times in the process. The car is sponsored by The International Bank of Portugal (BIP) in Lisbon and Oporto and with it Gaspar is making a return to motor racing after an enforced absence of two years in the Portugese army, serving his commission in West Africa. During National Service he suffered a hunting accident when the shotgun he was using slipped out of his hand and went off, resulting in the loss of four fingers on his right hand. Very bravely, this has not deterred Gaspar who is driving as well as ever in his new car."

So this seems to suggest that his car was HU-03, as he took delivery early in June, therefore probably before Le Mans.

I have found another race in which the Lola T280 competed in during 1972: The Rothmans 50,000 28/8/72, Brands Hatch:

"...Mario Casoni's 3-litre Ecurie Bonnier Lola T280, this team being one of the few fully conversed with long-distance pitstops..."

"Only one sports car qualified for the big race, Mario Casoni's 3-litre Lola T280 and he performed a most creditable time of 1m 28.1s, which is 0.2s faster than the best Lola T280 time established in practice for the BOAC earlier this year."

Casoni finished 12th in the race, on 107 (maybe 106, it's not clear) laps to winner Emerson Fittipaldi's (Lotus 72) 118. Source Autosport 31/8/72.

I guess this would have been HU-01, as its previous race was the final round of the sportscar World Championship at Watkins Glen, 22/7/72 and HU-02 had already been destroyed.

For the Imola 500km race 17/9/72, Autosport 21/9/72 p12 reports:

"Scuderia Brescia Corse once again hired the Ecurie Bonnier Lola T280 for Mario Casoni. The was as it ran at the Rothmans race but for a change of engine."

This implies two things: firstly that it was Scuderia Brescia Corse that entered Casoni in the Rothmans 50,000 and not Ecurie Bonnier (programme anyone?!) and that it was the same car, e.g. HU-01. I am not sure how this ties in with your comment about the roll-over bar/hoop, although I can see how they changed during the year. If you have some photos perhaps you could email them (send me a private message and I will give you this)as I cannot find any pics of the Gaspar car or Casoni in 72?

On the subject of the Japanese races, I haven't found any more info, only what is on Martin's site. I am surprised if there are HU-04 and HU-05 T280s, as the Autosport article said only three were built (although it was wrong when it said the third was never raced in Europe, so that is not a good sign!). I still wonder whether Takahara bought the Gaspar car and maybe this was then sold to UK for 1973.

Finally, looking through my 1973 Autosports, I came across a report for the Dijon 1,000kms 15/4/73:

"The remaining 3-litre Lolas [MO: e.g. in addition to the works T282] were the older ex-Bonnier [MO:HU-01??] and ex-BIP [MO: HU-03??] T280-DFVs and a new T282 fitted with a three-litre competition Capri V6 engine, all three cars still under the ye of Ecurie Bonnier mechanics. The DFV powered cars were for Giorgio Pianta and Pino Pica racing in a car hired by the Jolly Club for two races, while the second had been bought be Denis Rouvreyan who enlisted Francois Migault as co-driver."

Jolly Club were also the entrants for the Capri V6-engined car of Schon and Canonica.

I have a picture of the Pianta/Pica car in the race and it is in Ecurie Bonnier colours. It also has the full-width roll-over bar/hoop. No pics of the Rouvreyan car :-( However, there is a small pic in Motor Sport, which shows a car with a full-wide roll-over bar/hoop and two extra headlights together in the front nose, like the Le Mans cars from 1972 (whereas on the Pianta/Pica car there is nothing, just the words Jolly Club where the headlights on the Rouvreyan car are. Don't know if this helps...

I have to stop now and go back to work but I will continue to look through for more info on the cars raced in 1973...

Ciao for now

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

10 Sep 2003, 22:28

Michael, Alain,

Done some more digging... In 1981 (Autosport, March 12!), Brian Auger had in his collection, T280-HU4, acquired from Malcolm Johnstone. This "is though to be the last T280 built". It was thought to be the ex-Lord chassis, which went to Belgium and Switzerland, but it's history was being researched in conjunction ith Lola.

Autosport's Thundersports reports say that the Mallock/Wilds T280 was the ex-Lord chassis, "last raced in October 1973" - which is incorrect, as Lord raced in 1974 (he raced a T212 in '73), but never mind.

Michael Oliver

11 Sep 2003, 10:39

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael, Alain,

Done some more digging... In 1981 (Autosport, March 12!), Brian Auger had in his collection, T280-HU4, acquired from Malcolm Johnstone. This "is though to be the last T280 built". It was thought to be the ex-Lord chassis, which went to Belgium and Switzerland, but it's history was being researched in conjunction ith Lola.

Autosport's Thundersports reports say that the Mallock/Wilds T280 was the ex-Lord chassis, "last raced in October 1973" - which is incorrect, as Lord raced in 1974 (he raced a T212 in '73), but never mind.

Hmmm, interesting!

Maybe it was built up from spare tub/parts during 1973 as a cheaper alternative to a new T282 or indeed it was the Takahara car raced in late 72?

Digging around a bit more, there don't appear to have been any T280s that actually appeared at the 1973 Spa 1,000kms, although I believe according to Martin's site one or more were entered. However, Gaspar was driving in one of two BIP Lola T292s in the 2-litre class, suggesting that by this stage he had certainly sold his car, otherwise you might imagine he would have driven the 3-litre...

For the Nurburgring 1,000kms 27/5/73, Autosport has this to say:

"Once again the only 3-litre Lola to turn up was the Jolly Club-hired, Ecurie Bonnier-decored T280 with drivers Giorgio Pianta/Pino Pica." After a practice crash for his Porsche 908/4, Mario Casoni moved over to this car, replacing Pica. The car retired from the race with a broken gear linkage.

For Le Mans June 9/10/73 Autosport says:

"Lola's hopes lay with the Gitanes T282...

...A second privately entered ex-BIP Lola T280 was being run by its owner Daniel Rouvreyan with "Cyprien" (shown later in the report by the name 'Mons') and Christian Ethuin sharing the driving although by the standard of preparation it seemed highly unlikely the car would be going long enough for them all to get a drive."

I'm sure you probably already know this info but the car qualified 11th, with Rouvreyan setting the fastest practice time of the three at 3m 50.7s. A picture on p33 shows the car with a full-width roll-over bar/hoop and a white engine airbox but that is about all I can see. In the race the car experienced gearbox troubles early on and had retired by the 5th hour.

I'll try and catch up with the rest of the 73 races later today and then have a look through some 74 editions to search for any explanation of the Lord car and/or HU-04. I have a feeling Jeremy Lord runs Formula Three in the UK still, doesn't he? Suppose he might remember some info?

Cheers

Michael

Michael Oliver

12 Sep 2003, 11:33

Alain/Jeremy

Some more tidbits from Autosport 1973/4:

Autosport 20/9/73 p9 Report of Imola 500 16/9/73

"Next quickest at 1m 40.22s was Mario Casoni having a rent-a-drive in the ex-Ecurie Bonnier Lola T280, which was being prepared by Bonnier's ex-chief mechanic Heine Mader, who has now taken over the Bonnier set up and has re-named it HMR Racing Components."

Note: 'Casoni' and 'ex-Bonnier Lola' e.g. HU-01?

Autosport 21/2/74 p5

"Sports racing should receive a big shot in the arm this season if Jeremy Lord's plans are anything to go by. The Castrol/MN champion last season has bought from Italy a three-litre sports Lola with which to keep one ahead of his adversaries in this season's Tricentrol-sponsored championship."

Note: 'from Italy'

Autosport 7/3/74 p33 Report on BARC meeting, Brands Hatch 3/3/74

"...Jeremy Lord had got in to the swing of things in his ex-Casoni Lola T280-DFV (the car sounding beautiful and looking immaculate in its Minilite colours) and rocketed in to the lead for the remaining two tours."

Note: 'ex-Casoni' e.g. HU-01 as hired by Jolly Club, run by HMR at end of 1973?

Autosport 16/5/74 p35 Martini Silverstone Interserie report

"...and Jeremy Lord's Minilite Lola T280 which was in the competent hands of Tim Goss."

N.B. Goss qualified sixth and finished eighth in the race.

Nothing more at present - pressing work deadlines make spending the whole day reading Autosports difficult, much as I would like to!!!

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

12 Sep 2003, 21:20

Thanks Michael,

The only reference I had from Autosport was the '74 Interserie report, which wasn't a lot of good.

The "from Italy" bit puts a bit of a spin on things...I guess the weak link is the 1981 Autosport article where HU4 was only "thought to be" ex-Lord.

Autosport's photos of the Mallock ex-Lord car in 1983 (I assume you've got access to those Michael?) show the roll-over bar extended to full width from the original, as in the picture I have of Casoni at Monza 73.

I can scan the Autosport photos, including the one from March 1981, if they help. Let me know.

Michael Oliver

14 Sep 2003, 00:23

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Thanks Michael,

The only reference I had from Autosport was the '74 Interserie report, which wasn't a lot of good.

The "from Italy" bit puts a bit of a spin on things...I guess the weak link is the 1981 Autosport article where HU4 was only "thought to be" ex-Lord.

Autosport's photos of the Mallock ex-Lord car in 1983 (I assume you've got access to those Michael?) show the roll-over bar extended to full width from the original, as in the picture I have of Casoni at Monza 73.

I can scan the Autosport photos, including the one from March 1981, if they help. Let me know.

Jeremy

Would like to see any scans of photos you have, as I don't have my Autosports to hand and they only go up to the end of 1982...

Try checking out this weblink of a mystery T2**:

http://www.clarben.com/ickx/motorracingretro/mystery/retro72sp43.htm

It looks like a T280 or T290 to me. Having had a close look it appears there are no inlet trumpets or no ducting for the inlet trumpets of a DFV, whereas there is ducting on (as you look at it) the right side of the top surface of the rear bodywork suggesting maybe a 2-litre car? They suggest it was taken in 1972, so if it was a T280 could be Gaspar but wrong sponsor name, perhaps Takahara? Not sure about which car it is but look at the roll-over bar/hoop, it is full-width and symmetrical.

Incidentally, the pics I have of the Casoni car and the Rouvreyan car in 1973 both show cars with full width roll-over bars/hoops so I don't quite know what the significance of this is going to be. As far as I can make out, both the works cars had this mod from (IIRC) Spa 1972 onwards in the case of the one car they raced there (HU01 IIRC?) and Le Mans 1972 for the second one, not sure about the Gaspar car as I haven't seen a pic of this car yet. Similarly, the pics I have of the Lord car racing in 1974 all show a car with a symmetrical full width roll bar/hoop.

Cheers

Michael

Alain HACHE

14 Sep 2003, 09:53

Michael,
The car on the pic is an T290 LOLA. I can not say what is the engine but probably FORD FVC or VEGA .
About T280 roll-over bar/hoops ,I own pictures of Rouveyran
and Casoni cars and its not the same R.O.B /hoops .
But how put these pictures on this forum ?
tell me on my e-mail : AHACHE@wanadoo.fr
Have a nice Sunday

Michael Oliver

14 Sep 2003, 11:19

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
Michael,
The car on the pic is an T290 LOLA. I can not say what is the engine but probably FORD FVC or VEGA .
About T280 roll-over bar/hoops ,I own pictures of Rouveyran
and Casoni cars and its not the same R.O.B /hoops .
But how put these pictures on this forum ?
tell me on my e-mail : AHACHE@wanadoo.fr
Have a nice Sunday

Alain

Yes, I'm sure that is the case, it is a 2-litre car. I was attracted by the T280? bit when I did the search!

Re the pics, you have mail!

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

14 Sep 2003, 11:55

Michael, I've send you a PM requesting your e-mail, as I guess you don't want to put in on the main forum.

Cheers

Jeremy

Alain HACHE

17 Sep 2003, 21:45

back in thread:
some questions was without answers so I can say that:
Jo Bonnier did'nt drove T280 in Brands Hatch
Jorge de Bagration is spanish and M Cabral portugese but I dont know if it was an relation with C Gaspar ( no BIP stickers on Bonnier's cars in Le Mans ).
M Cabral and De Bagration did'nt drove LOLA #7 in the race
I only remember helmets of Bonnier , V Lennep ,Larrousse and De Fierlandt in the race . But could G Larousse drove the #8 after #7 in the race ? I dont have "souvenir" of that and I think it was forbiden.....
About T280 in Interserie in 1972 do somebody have race report and pictures ?
About practices in le Mans 72 what was the day , 19/03 or
19/04 ? I have the 2 in my docs .....

Jeremy Jackson

17 Sep 2003, 23:38

Hi Alain,

From Autosport: Wisell drove a T280 at the Nürburgring on April 3rd 1972. He non-started heat 1, due to Fuel pump difficulties, and retired after 1 lap of heat 2 (Wet electrics). Bonnier appeared in a T280 (but did not start after the engine failed in practice) at the Imola Interserie race on May 1st 1972. However, I don't have pictures.

The LM practice in 1972 was held on 19/04, with the 3 hour race aswell.

Regards

Jeremy

Michael Oliver

19 Sep 2003, 13:46

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Hi Alain,

From Autosport: Wisell drove a T280 at the Nürburgring on April 3rd 1972. He non-started heat 1, due to Fuel pump difficulties, and retired after 1 lap of heat 2 (Wet electrics). Bonnier appeared in a T280 (but did not start after the engine failed in practice) at the Imola Interserie race on May 1st 1972. However, I don't have pictures.

The LM practice in 1972 was held on 19/04, with the 3 hour race aswell.

Regards

Jeremy

Sorry to contradict you Jeremy but it was definitely 19th March - I am looking at Autosport of March 23rd 1972 which has a report of the Le Mans Test Weekend. I think where the confusion has arisen is that the date is wrong on the wspr site...something which I have only picked up on today. I will email and point this out.

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

19 Sep 2003, 15:38

No problem Michael, I've got the same Autosport myself, and still agreed with the wrong date - 19 April was a Wednesday!

Michael Oliver

19 Sep 2003, 15:53

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
No problem Michael, I've got the same Autosport myself, and still agreed with the wrong date - 19 April was a Wednesday!

Yes, it happens more frequently as you get older - or at least that's what I'm finding anyway:D

Chofar

21 Sep 2003, 17:38

Alain,

In A-utomobiles Historiques of juin 2003, There's an interview of G.Larrousse where he says he switched from 8 to 7 after the Number 8 car lost time with gearbow issues. He drove Number 7 to 3rd place before the night and then the car had clutch problems. Larrousse quotes gearbox as a main issue of that car. So, when Bonnier's accident came, Larrousse was no longer in the race. And as i read it, he never switched back to number 8. And the 2 spanish boys never had time to drive number7. At the time, switching was permitted or were the rules changed in 77 when Ickx switched from Number3 to Number 4 ?
i also remember Jabouille drove a stint in the Alpine number 4 in 1978 after his retirement. If you want i can scan you the arcticle.

Michael Oliver

22 Sep 2003, 17:30

Hi Alain

I have found several new photos of the Takahara car and two more of the Gaspar car, also spoken to Jeremy Lord re his car that he raced in 1974 in the UK. He sold this in mid- to late-1976 to a guy who raced in the Interserie. This may or may not be Jorg Zaborowski, who appeared in the Mainz-Finthen round of the Interserie in October 1976 and, IIRC, finished 10th.

I have been discussing this with Jeremy Jackson and we have a feeling that this car was HU03, which appears to have returned to Ecurie Bonnier (who were European Lola agents at the time) from Gaspar (either directly or via Takahara for 3 races in Japan - not sure at present) for the 1973 season.

We think that Rouveyran bought HU01, also from Ecurie Bonnier (e.g. the de Fierlandt/Larousse 72 Le Mans car) early in 1973 but are not sure exactly where it went from there. Rouveyran died in July 1973 and the next time a T280 turns up in international competition (apart from the Lord car) was 06/04/75 Dijon 1000kms and this was the car of Michel Degoumois/Jean Belin. As we know Lord still owned his car, this suggests it must have been HU01, unless there was an HU04... In the Autosport report of the race, it was described as 'tatty' which might be a good description of a car which had been in storage for 18 months to two years!

Do you have any way of contacting Rouveyran's family? The only people of that name I can find run Rouveyran's Tyres which sounds right as I know that Daniel R. was a garage proprietor. It would be really interesting to know what happened to the Lola after he died. Maybe Francois Migault might know, as he appears to have known Rouveyran, as he drove his March 721G in late 72 and then co-drove with him at Dijon in 73. Does anybody know how to contact him?

Any comments?

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

22 Sep 2003, 18:58

Michael, having just read your correspondence with Peter Morley on TNF... it wouls seem we might have a convergence of paths with this particular chassis.

I'll try and be patient to see if Zabrowski and/or Malcolm Johnstone can be found to shed any light on this.

Alain HACHE

22 Sep 2003, 19:13

HELLO MICHAEL
Interessants options you sended.
This week end I had an meeting with G Larousse in the Le Mans Story event.
The man is not easy to dialogue but I could get some littles things : He never seen more than 2 T280 in Bonnier
team during sportscar championship 72 and the 2 cars had many kms when they raced Le Mans . Bonnier would order a third car but , G Larousse don't know if he could before LM fatal accident . Bonnier's wife decide to continue team and the car winner of Paris 1000 Kms was new and without practice before the race....After he let the team to Matra and he only think that the car HU01 and T280/2 contested 73 championship. He remember that the car was very fast and easy to drive " we turned arroud Ferrari and Alfa in Buenos Aires but gearboxes was fragiles . In Le Mans on the Hunaudières our cars was very faster than Matra etc....
I could not get more infos and the man is gone.......
I wait pictures if you can send me
all the best
Alain

Alain HACHE

22 Sep 2003, 19:17

I will try to contact again D Rouveyran nephew to get more infos . And will inform you soon after OK ?

Michael Oliver

23 Sep 2003, 12:44

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
I will try to contact again D Rouveyran nephew to get more infos . And will inform you soon after OK ?

Hi Alain

Sounds like you have been busy. Mr Larousse probably finds it difficult to remember individual cars - that is something that affects most drivers :) After all, I suppose it was a long time ago... Good luck with Rouveyran's nephew.

In the meantime, I will email you some pics of the Takahara car. The Lord car was advertised for sale (no chassis number mentioned in the ad unfortunately :banghead: ) in Autosport 07/10/76, and Jorg Zaborowski drove a Lola T280 for the first time in Mainz-Finthen Interserie round 24/10/76 - seems like too much of a co-incidence, so likely he is the guy who bought the car...

Best regards

Michael Oliver

Michael Oliver

23 Sep 2003, 12:45

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael, having just read your correspondence with Peter Morley on TNF... it wouls seem we might have a convergence of paths with this particular chassis.

I'll try and be patient to see if Zabrowski and/or Malcolm Johnstone can be found to shed any light on this.

Jeremy

Indeed, it seems too much of a coincidence, doesn't it? Talk about incredible timing too, with Peter's posting... I'll continue to try and track down Johnstone, although I suspect Zaborowski might be a tad more difficult...

Cheers

Michael

Alain HACHE

23 Sep 2003, 20:14

Michael
I just reed on an other forum that Jean Blaton was owner
of the T280 Bonnier / Switzerland . If thats right what
that for a good news to follow the story but I think the
man make a mistake . In the end of 2000 Jean Bla-
ton "BEURLYS" sold in bid gallery LE POULAIN in Paris an
T282 car ( sn T282/6 ) builded in 1973 .
Maybe the man confuse the cars ? Or did J Blaton owned
two cars ?
nice evenning
Alain

Michael Oliver

25 Sep 2003, 14:38

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
Michael
I just reed on an other forum that Jean Blaton was owner
of the T280 Bonnier / Switzerland . If thats right what
that for a good news to follow the story but I think the
man make a mistake . In the end of 2000 Jean Bla-
ton "BEURLYS" sold in bid gallery LE POULAIN in Paris an
T282 car ( sn T282/6 ) builded in 1973 .
Maybe the man confuse the cars ? Or did J Blaton owned
two cars ?
nice evenning
Alain

Hi Alain

Which forum was this - an English or French one? I don't see how this could be possible, unless it was the surviving 72 Le Mans car that Blaton bought, maybe after Rouveyran died, or after it had finished racing in 75/76 (e.g. Degoumois/Belin, Cuynet/Belin etc.)?

On another forum, a friend of mine mentioned that he remembered having seen what he was told was one of the 'Swiss Cheese' Lolas being prepared by Willie Widar in Belgium, and he thought it might then have gone to Jean Blaton. Certainly he remembered that it was yellow but I don't know if he was sure that it was a T280 or not.

I guess that it is likely to be a T282 as you said, particularly if this is what Blaton sold a few years ago. I know someone who knows Blaton, so I guess it might be worth trying to find out for sure?

Cheers

Michael

Dan Rear

2 Oct 2003, 13:13

Slightly OT, but what about the 1975 Gp6 Lolas, the T380 and T390. Are any still left ?

I know de Cadenet had a T380 that raced at Le Mans in 75 & 76, before it got transformed into the "de Cadenet LM". I recall Edwards and Martin Raymond had T390s in '75, whatever became of them.

Michael Oliver

2 Oct 2003, 14:47

Originally posted by Dan Rear
Slightly OT, but what about the 1975 Gp6 Lolas, the T380 and T390. Are any still left ?

I know de Cadenet had a T380 that raced at Le Mans in 75 & 76, before it got transformed into the "de Cadenet LM". I recall Edwards and Martin Raymond had T390s in '75, whatever became of them.

Hi Dan

Yes, that's a good point. I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with these cars - was the T380 a 3-litre and the T390 a 2-litre? The original Duckhams Special campaigned by Alain de Cadenet and Chris Craft was also in some way Lola-derived, IIRC, although it used some running gear from a Brabham BT33. Also, Gordon Murray was involved somehow as the designer...

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

2 Oct 2003, 15:04

Dan,

There weren't a lot of T390s built, estimates are between 2 and 5! I certainly haven't seen any for years. de Cadenet's 75-77 T380 was sold for 1978, and that was the car that Martin Raymond drove occasionally in Fisons colours. Raymond did drive a T390, at Spa in 1975 (although Autosport called it a T294), but after struggling with it at Silverstone and this Spa race, it seems he reverted to his trusty Chevron.

I think the T390 was generally dumped by it's users. The collapse of the European 2-litre championship after 2 races in 1975 didn't help sales, I suppose.

Apaprt from de Cadenet's T380, the only other one I knew about was a Jolly Club chassis (quoted as HU2 by Autosport) used at the 1975 Nurburgring 1000ks.

Dan Rear

3 Oct 2003, 18:37

Jeremy/Michael

Re the 75 Lolas, I think you're right they seemed to be dumped fairly early. I think a chap called Richard Bond raced presumably the ex de Cad DFV car in British 1000Ks races in the late 70s, when Gp6 were allowed to enter Gp5 races, was John Cooper also involved here? The later De Cadenet car raced in these aswell occasionally IIRC. Who built that.

I think a German called Roland Binder raced one of the 2 litres in Germany/Interseries later in the 70s, or am I getting this car mixed up with the F2 T450 he also had, another 70s Lola 'cock-up' !!

Dan

Jeremy Jackson

3 Oct 2003, 19:05

Bond only drive the 75-76 Lola once or twice, as far as my records tell me, in an Interserie race, although he would ghave raced it at LM in 1977, if it had qualified.

The 77 de Cadenet was raced by John Cooper/Pete Lovett in 78/79, and by Richard Jones & Nick Faure in 1980

Binder did indeed race a T390, during 1979-80. Since it wasn't great when it was new, he was a hero (or crazy?)to be wrestling with one 4-5 years later!

Dan Rear

6 Oct 2003, 14:26

Jeremy

Agreed re Roland Binder, and twice so for taking on a T450, though he did that in the year when it should have been at its best (!)76. I presume it was an ex-ATS car. I also remember Adrian Russell had one of these things, ex-Mallock I think.

Nordic

6 Oct 2003, 15:18

[
The 77 de Cadenet was raced by John Cooper/Pete Lovett in 78/79, and by Richard Jones & Nick Faure in 1980

There is a member on this fourm called GFM who may be able to help. He was a driver on the team that run a De Cadenet.

Kojima_KE007

21 Oct 2003, 02:24

Hi.

I hope what I am just about to write here will help solve some people's questions about chassis number 03 of Lola T280.

It was delivered to Noritake Takahara in Japan on 30th of March 1972 to be raced in the Grand Champion series at Fuji Speedway. He then took the championship and went to Kojima Engineering.

It still remains in Japan (not at Kojima Engineering) in its original state.

Jeremy Jackson

21 Oct 2003, 10:49

Nice to have some concrete information, Thanks!

Michael Oliver

21 Oct 2003, 11:59

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
Hi.

I hope what I am just about to write here will help solve some people's questions about chassis number 03 of Lola T280.

It was delivered to Noritake Takahara in Japan on 30th of March 1972 to be raced in the Grand Champion series at Fuji Speedway. He then took the championship and went to Kojima Engineering.

It still remains in Japan (not at Kojima Engineering) in its original state.

That's very interesting. Can I be cheeky and ask you what your source is for this information? Also you mention that this will help solve some questions about chassis number 3. Are you sure that it was chassis 3 that was delivered to Takahara and not 4? This would make sense as, if it was delivered in March 72 then it would certainly have been the third one built...

What I don't understand is why Takahara didn't use the car from the first round onwards! Was there some problem with it?

It would be really nice to make contact with the current owners and share the information/pictures we have uncovered in the past few months - do you have this info. Perhaps you could send me a private message or email me on michael.oliver@oliverandcompany.co.uk if you didn't want to post this on the list.

Many thanks for the information - very interesting!

Michael Oliver

Alain HACHE

21 Oct 2003, 19:58

Whats for a nice and important info . Thanks Kojima _ ke007

French magasine SPORT AUTO telled in April 1972 that a third car was build , but not for Bonnier team .Maybe this
car was destined to Von Wendt at first ?
For myself the chassis # 3 was C Gaspar car .....
KOJIMA _ KE 007 ,please do you know where exactly stay now the car ? Was the car entered in other races after season 1972 ?
best regards

Kojima_KE007

21 Oct 2003, 20:43

I am glad that the info I provided has helped. (^^)

The chassis number 03 is currently in our associates' garage in Japan. I do have acouple of photos but as I do not have the permission from the owner himself to publish them, I will not publish this time.

It did race in the Grand Champion series in 1972 from round 2 to 5 driven by Noritake Takahara but it did not race at all in 1973 (Japanese Auto Technic magazine).

As the Grand Champion race was only run at Fuji Speedway, the body was slightly modified to suit the very fast and flowing circuit configuration.

Since then, it has always remained in Japan.

Another interesting point is that, the bell housing of the T280 (chassis number 03) was used on Kojima KE007 and KE009 Formula One chassis.

Best regards

Michael Oliver

22 Oct 2003, 14:15

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
I am glad that the info I provided has helped. (^^)

The chassis number 03 is currently in our associates' garage in Japan. I do have acouple of photos but as I do not have the permission from the owner himself to publish them, I will not publish this time.

It did race in the Grand Champion series in 1972 from round 2 to 5 driven by Noritake Takahara but it did not race at all in 1973 (Japanese Auto Technic magazine).

As the Grand Champion race was only run at Fuji Speedway, the body was slightly modified to suit the very fast and flowing circuit configuration.

Since then, it has always remained in Japan.

Another interesting point is that, the bell housing of the T280 (chassis number 03) was used on Kojima KE007 and KE009 Formula One chassis.

Best regards

That's very interesting. Do you know the reason why the car did not compete in Round 1? Maybe it had an accident in testing or something?

And you are 100% sure that the car is chassis 3? If this is correct, it means that the car driven by Carlos Gaspar in 1972 was chassis 4 not 3 as previously believed...

Michael Oliver

Kojima_KE007

22 Oct 2003, 23:56

The reason why Takahara did not use T280 for the first round is probaby because the car simply was not ready as all the Grand Champion cars do have to go through some modifications to suit the fast Fuji Speedway circuit.

I am sure it is the chassis number 03 unless Lola got it wrong and put the wrong chassis number plate on the car, which obviously is still stuck on the chassis on the lower left hand side of the passenger seat.

It is even written on a book translated into Japanese that chassis number 03 was delivered to Noritake Takahara on 30th of March 1972 (probably the despatch date).

Michael Oliver

23 Oct 2003, 11:54

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
The reason why Takahara did not use T280 for the first round is probaby because the car simply was not ready as all the Grand Champion cars do have to go through some modifications to suit the fast Fuji Speedway circuit.

I am sure it is the chassis number 03 unless Lola got it wrong and put the wrong chassis number plate on the car, which obviously is still stuck on the chassis on the lower left hand side of the passenger seat.

It is even written on a book translated into Japanese that chassis number 03 was delivered to Noritake Takahara on 30th of March 1972 (probably the despatch date).

Hi Kojima_KE007

I am surprised that, having had the car so long, Takahara didn't have it ready for the first round, as he would have had several months to adapt it to Fuji. I have some contact details for Mr Takahara, so maybe I should ask him about this to clear it up once and for all!

I am sure you are right, as it is unlikely that the wrong chassis plate would have been put on the car. I hope I did not offend you in questioning you about this but I wanted to know that you were sure of your facts, as I have found through researching my Lotus books that the memory can play tricks over time and that photographic evidence is the only reliable witness;)

You mention a book translated into Japanese - which one is this and do you know if it is available in English as well? Sounds like a book I should have read :rolleyes:

Thanks again

Michael Oliver

Fab

23 Oct 2003, 14:30

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
un salut amical à tous

Glad to meet un Orléannais on Ten-Tenths ! Your name is not unknown for me (I was born and raised in Orléans), but I can't remember why... give me a clue !

BTW, I'm very impressed by the contain of this thread ; do you intend to enter the car at Classic in 2004 ?

We've a couple of passionate people here nearby Nantes rebuilding the Tecma which raced in 1975... hope to see it on the track too next July... :rotate:

Cheers !

Fab
Sportscars forum mod

Kojima_KE007

23 Oct 2003, 14:36

Michael Oliver

The first round of the Grand Champion series 1972 was "20th of March 1972", and the delivery date being "30th of March 1972" there was no way that Takahara could run the Lola T280 at the first race. He even had to rent out a McLaren M12 from Sakai Racing.

I think you are getting mixed up with the "order date" and "delivery date". As Takahara does mention that he ordered the car, T280 chassis number 03, from Lola well before it was decided that the Grand Champion series will become an "Open Class" race from 1972 onwards.

Michael Oliver

23 Oct 2003, 15:43

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
Michael Oliver

The first round of the Grand Champion series 1972 was "20th of March 1972", and the delivery date being "30th of March 1972" there was no way that Takahara could run the Lola T280 at the first race. He even had to rent out a McLaren M12 from Sakai Racing.

I think you are getting mixed up with the "order date" and "delivery date". As Takahara does mention that he ordered the car, T280 chassis number 03, from Lola well before it was decided that the Grand Champion series will become an "Open Class" race from 1972 onwards.

My mistake! I don't know why but I assumed that all the Grand Champion series races took place at the end of 1972!!! I had no idea that two races took place earlier in the year, so there was no way he could have got the car ready, certainly for the first one :rolleyes:

So he drove the McLaren M12 rented from Sakai Racing in Round 1 (20/3/72), finishing 2nd, then Round 2 (6/4/72) he finished 4th. He drove three rounds of the Grand Champion series in the Lola T280, again all at Mt Fuji Raceway. These were 3/9/72 (1st), 10/10/72 (1st) and 23/11/72 (1st).

Thanks for putting me straight on that one!

Jeremy: how come we didn't notice this before :banghead:

So we have the following:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)

A few more things are falling into place...

Michael Oliver

Jeremy Jackson

23 Oct 2003, 15:58

Michael, we did notice! We just didn't know when Takahara ordered/actually got hold of the car - We knew round 2 was on June 4th, but he was in the M12, so we surmised that he actually took delivery in time for round 3 in September....

Your summary seems plausible to me.

Michael Oliver

23 Oct 2003, 16:08

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael, we did notice! We just didn't know when Takahara ordered/actually got hold of the car - We knew round 2 was on June 4th, but he was in the M12, so we surmised that he actually took delivery in time for round 3 in September....

Your summary seems plausible to me.

Well, I didn't notice :laugh:

The dates on the results I looked at were so far across the page that I completely missed them initially and when I did find them I only looked up the dates of the three rounds I knew Takahara had driven the T280 in :o

Do you know anything about this book that Kojima_KE007 mentions?

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

23 Oct 2003, 16:32

In one of the e-mails, I did query whether round 2 was on 4/6 or 6/4, when I mentioned those numbers on a photo of Takhara's Lola...Presume that was a event preview photo.

The book is news to me, though it would be useful to know what other good information it contains.

Kojima_KE007

23 Oct 2003, 16:50

Sorry, I forgot to give you the details of the book that I mentioned before.

The book is titled "Cooper, Lola, Elva" and is "thought" to be a direct translation of an English text book.

Unfortunately I do not have the book right in front of me at the moment, but will give you more details as soon as I can (early next week the earliest).

Jeremy Jackson

23 Oct 2003, 16:55

Thanks for the info, Kojima_KE007, the title doesn't ring any bells to me, but an Elva website gives it's ISBM as ISBN 4-544-04215-1. Don't know when it was published. Written by Shigemi Kanda, who's done some Lotus books. Michael?

Michael Oliver

23 Oct 2003, 17:36

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
In one of the e-mails, I did query whether round 2 was on 4/6 or 6/4, when I mentioned those numbers on a photo of Takhara's Lola...Presume that was a event preview photo.

The book is news to me, though it would be useful to know what other good information it contains.

Yes, I remember that now :rolleyes:

Although how it could be an event preview photo when the car doesn't appear to have even run by then, I'm not sure :eek: Maybe this is retrospective text added by the owner of the website I procured the photo from...

Thanx for info about the book. Sorry, the name doesn't ring a bell, but then quite a lot of people have written books about Lotus and I only have a relatively small proportion of those!

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

23 Oct 2003, 17:52

Although how it could be an event preview photo when the car doesn't appear to have even run by then, I'm not sure

Er, yes, I see what you mean!

Kojima_KE007

27 Oct 2003, 18:13

I now have the details of the book.

It is the Vol. 15 of Car Graphic Liblary series, "Sekai No Jidousha (Cars of the world)" Cooper/Lola/Elva, published by Nigensha, written by Shigemi Kanta.

This is exactly what it say on the book; Lola T280/3 Cosworth DFV, 30th March 1972, Colour: White, Noritake Takahara.

We think they just translated the delivery sheet of Lola cars.

Alain HACHE

28 Oct 2003, 19:09

KOJIMA
thanks again for infos , is it possible for you to find in the book the same infos for others T280 ? ( chassis number , date , colour and owner )
best regards
Alain

Kojima_KE007

30 Oct 2003, 20:54

Alain

Unfortunately, the book has informations on Japanese related cars only.

Sorry I couldn't help you with other cars.

Best regards,
Kojima_KE007

Alain HACHE

1 Nov 2003, 23:12

thanks Kojima for answer
if you search infos about something in France I can help OK ?
AHACHE@wanadoo.fr
best regards
alain

Alain HACHE

4 Nov 2003, 20:30

Whats happen in 1973 Spa 1000 Kms for the T282 Filipinetti
during practice ? was the car rebuilded ?

Jeremy Jackson

4 Nov 2003, 21:02

Alain, the car was crashed heavily in practice at Spa after a left rear suspension falure. According to Autosport, the car would have been withdrawn anyway, after the death of George Filipinetti. The car was rebuilt in time for Le Mans

Kojima_KE007

8 Dec 2003, 22:56

Which chassis is in Rosso Bianco in Germany? Is that chassis number 01 or 02, do we know exactly which chassis Bonnier was in when he was killed at Le Mans in 1972 and how many T280s were produced in total?

In my opinion, whichever chassis that Bonnier was "not" killed in would automatically become the chassis that is in Rosso Bianco.

Jeremy Jackson

8 Dec 2003, 23:26

Kojima,

2 of those questions started this thread! The one photo I've seen of the Rosso Bianco T280 has neither original rear bodywork, nor is in "period" colours. From the photo I've seen, it may even be the ex-Mallock/Zaborowski car mentioned earlier (chassis 4?).

Since we've "sort of" concluded that there were at least 4 chassis earlier in the thread, I don't think we can say it is automatically anything. I can't read the information board next to the car on the photo I've got, but it doesn't seem to say too much!

Kojima_KE007

9 Dec 2003, 00:58

Jeremy

Thanks for the reply and sorry to ask the same questions again, but as we looked into the history of Lola T280 and the more contacts we made, we became more confused.

Has Rosso Bianco ever confirmed or published which chassis their T280 is and does anybody have a picture of it?

There also is a person suspecting that chassis 04 is somewhere in Italy. Does anybody know anything about this at all?

Jeremy Jackson

9 Dec 2003, 01:27

Kojima,

No need to apologize, it wasn't a criticism! We've ended up asking a lot of questions in this thread, so it's understandable. Michael did a summary on page 3 of this:

"So we have the following:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)"

As far as I know, Rosso Bianco website doesn't detail the exhibits, and I've not seen any information about this car. There is a photo here:

http://www.shmoo.com/~bmc/photos/Car%20Museum/dscf0070.jpg

, and it doesn't look in very good condition. However, it does have the additonal rear wing that the Marsh car had in 1983 (Not much to go on, I know!), and is painted light blue, and red down the centre. The board next to it says Lola T280 1972 2993cc V8... In smaller print it says "Only x of this racing car for Group 5 have been built". Unfortunately from the photo, I can't make out the number. The "x" could be a 5 or 9 (Which would include T282-4-6 variants, but we know HU10 exists), but the number looks different to the 5 in the "Group 5" lettering. If you can decipher from the photo, it may help...

Since we aren't 100% on chassis numbering, what can you tell us about 04 in Italy?

Michael Oliver

9 Dec 2003, 10:55

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Kojima,

No need to apologize, it wasn't a criticism! We've ended up asking a lot of questions in this thread, so it's understandable. Michael did a summary on page 3 of this:

"So we have the following:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)"

As far as I know, Rosso Bianco website doesn't detail the exhibits, and I've not seen any information about this car. There is a photo here:

http://www.shmoo.com/~bmc/photos/Car%20Museum/dscf0070.jpg

, and it doesn't look in very good condition. However, it does have the additonal rear wing that the Marsh car had in 1983 (Not much to go on, I know!), and is painted light blue, and red down the centre. The board next to it says Lola T280 1972 2993cc V8... In smaller print it says "Only x of this racing car for Group 5 have been built". Unfortunately from the photo, I can't make out the number. The "x" could be a 5 or 9 (Which would include T282-4-6 variants, but we know HU10 exists), but the number looks different to the 5 in the "Group 5" lettering. If you can decipher from the photo, it may help...

Since we aren't 100% on chassis numbering, what can you tell us about 04 in Italy?

Jeremy

Thanks for the photo of the car in Rosso Bianco. I'd never seen one and was beginning to wonder if a photo of the car actually existed. I was getting to the point where I was going to suggest organising a TNF/Ten-Tenths trip to the museum to get my own photo!!!

I agree with you about the rear wing being an indicator that it is the Marsh Plant car but in fact I'd say there were a lot of other similarities with that car:

1) The front splitter added to the nose (only car I've seen this feature on)
2) The additional centre rear view mirror
3) The enlarged air ducts on the side of the car
4) The absence of the filled-in bodywork at the rear of the car
5) The removed centre section of the cockpit between driver and passenger seat (done at the Interserie Silverstone 74, according to Jeremy Lord)

I know that none of these on their own would be very conclusive, but put together, with the rear wing, I think it is 'highly probable' that the car in Rosso Bianco is the ex-Marsh Plant one. Now we believe this to be 04, don't we? But it would be interesting to here what Kojima has to say about Italy...also given the fact that we believe it has some Italian history via Jolly Club.

The car that has been really bothering me is the Ulf Broman one - it just doesn't seem to fit in. It doesn't have the filled in rear bodywork (although I suppose whoever rebuilt it could have put a new rear body section on the car - maybe from a 2-litre?) You will notice that his car also has the centre section of the cockpit cut away but it appears to have been done even more further forward than the Lord/Marsh Plant car! I don't suppose you have any idea when that photo might have been taken, even roughly, as that might help?

However, I think I have just discovered one thing which identifies the Broman car as 01 - the roll-over bar/hoop. If you look at the photo of the Rouveyran car from Le Mans 73, you will see that the diagonal hoop that goes from bottom left to top right, starting from behind the driver's neck, is welded to the other diagonal tube running from top left to bottom right, rather than being joined to the main hoop as it is on all the other cars. You can see this again on the photo of Casoni's car in the Rothmans 50,000. On the Lord car the diagonal tube running from behind the driver meets the main hoop and is not welded to the other diagonal tube at all, while with the Takahara car it always had the original design of roll hoop, again with the diagonal tube being welded to the top tube.

I can't claim this is all my own work, as Alain Hache was hinting that there were subtle differences in the roll-over bar/hoop a long time ago earlier in this thread, I just didn't look hard enough then!

Anyway, I'm going to be bold and I've moved the Broman car from my 'Unknown' folder in my Lola T280 photos directory into HU01!!! Any thoughts?

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

9 Dec 2003, 11:29

Michael,

The Rosso Bianco photo was posted on the net in early December, the comment being that the guy had just come back from his "last visit to Germany", but I don't know when the photo was actually taken.

I noticed the splitter and the open-ended rear bodywork, so it seemed likely that it was the Marsh car. I issed the cockpit mirror details though!

However, I don't know when the Broman photo was taken. I assumed it was taken some time ago?

Now about this Italian car...

Michael Oliver

9 Dec 2003, 12:57

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

The Rosso Bianco photo was posted on the net in early December, the comment being that the guy had just come back from his "last visit to Germany", but I don't know when the photo was actually taken.

I noticed the splitter and the open-ended rear bodywork, so it seemed likely that it was the Marsh car. I issed the cockpit mirror details though!

However, I don't know when the Broman photo was taken. I assumed it was taken some time ago?

Now about this Italian car...

Indeed!

Did you see what I meant about the roll-hoop on the Broman car/Rouveyran car?

Cheers

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

9 Dec 2003, 13:21

I do see the difference in roll hoops now, but I wouldn't have picked it up if you hadn't spelled it out for me!

Cheers

jeremy

Michael Oliver

9 Dec 2003, 14:30

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
I do see the difference in roll hoops now, but I wouldn't have picked it up if you hadn't spelled it out for me!

Cheers

jeremy

Glad you could see it! It is quite difficult to explain but I certainly think it is unique. In my (albeit relatively limited) experience, roll-over hoops are the sort of thing that don't tend to get changed that often on a car - unless they have been damaged in an accident - and are far less likely to change than bodywork, wheels etc. So I think this is an interesting identifying feature.

Cheers

Michael

Kojima_KE007

9 Dec 2003, 23:44

Having seen the picture of the T280 that is in Rosso Bianco (thanks very much for that Jeremy! :)) and read your posts, it is highly likely that the one in Germany (Rosso Bianco) is the chassis number 04. (Does everyone agree with this?)

The other thing that is bothering me is, does anybody know which chassis Bonnier was killed in for sure?

Regarding the "chassis in Italy" comment that I made earlier, it came from a person who knows a thing or two about Lolas out of nowhere... so I can't really say anything on that. I will speak with that person again and see if I can get the details behind that comment.

Do any of you have any pictures of T280s? I think it would help if we could all see the same pictures. So I post a picture of the chassis 03 in action (sorry for the bad quality...) driven by Noritake Takahara (not that it helps much as we know that our associate owns it...). It is in white but was later painted into red as it was sponsored by Coca-Cola for the last few races of 1972 Grand Champion series.:beer:

Michael Oliver

10 Dec 2003, 14:33

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
Having seen the picture of the T280 that is in Rosso Bianco (thanks very much for that Jeremy! :)) and read your posts, it is highly likely that the one in Germany (Rosso Bianco) is the chassis number 04. (Does everyone agree with this?)

The other thing that is bothering me is, does anybody know which chassis Bonnier was killed in for sure?

Regarding the "chassis in Italy" comment that I made earlier, it came from a person who knows a thing or two about Lolas out of nowhere... so I can't really say anything on that. I will speak with that person again and see if I can get the details behind that comment.

Do any of you have any pictures of T280s? I think it would help if we could all see the same pictures. So I post a picture of the chassis 03 in action (sorry for the bad quality...) driven by Noritake Takahara (not that it helps much as we know that our associate owns it...). It is in white but was later painted into red as it was sponsored by Coca-Cola for the last few races of 1972 Grand Champion series.:beer:

Kojima

I am pretty sure too now in my mind that the car in Rosso Bianco is 04, but I guess you can never be 100%!!!

Thanks for the photo. I have accumulated a lot of T280 pics (including 10 of the Takahara car) but don't think I am able to post them as I've never successfully managed to attach an image - don't you need a website or something to host them? I could email them to you if you send me a private message with your address.

I think it is generally accepted that JoBo died in HU02. I'm fairly sure that if you look at a photo of the other Ecurie Bonnier car (I have a picture of Larrousse in it during the race)it has the distinctive diagonal roll-hoop brace that I was talking about which identifies HU01 from the other chassis. HU03 was already in Japan by the time Le Mans took place, while HU04 was debuted by Carlos Gaspar the weekend after Le Mans, IIRC.

Like Jeremy, I'd be very interested to hear about the 'Italian connection'. Incidentally, I don't know if you have seen the photo of the Ulf Broman car (which I believe to be HU01, see my messages from yesterday) but this has a number of decals on it with Italian connections. For example, there is one for the Lauro Restaurant in Modena, a Ferrari sticker, plus several others such as USAG - (tools maybe?), AGB and an unknown logo of a red flag with an 'S' on it, perhaps suggesting that the owner prior to Broman was an Italian or raced the car in Italy.

I think it is almost certain that an Italian did drive HU01 (Ciro Nappi, 1978 Monza 1,000kms, DNQ) but I understand that he was from Naples so I don't know why he would be carrying sponsorship from people around the Modena area but who knows! According to my best estimates, this car was then sold to Pascal Pessiot, who I believe was French and entered the car (reportedly with a Chev engine) for the 1981 Brands Hatch 1,000kms but it did not appear.

Hope this helps but await anything you can dig up with interest!

Michael

Nordic

12 Dec 2003, 13:37

Lola (http://www.lolaheritage.com/cars_for_sale.cfm?flag=2&cat_id=9)

There is a 280 for sale on the Lola Cars heritage site, no chassis number or much detail.

Alain HACHE

12 Dec 2003, 18:22

I meet last year the owner of this T280 in the Le Mans
Classic event and he telled me that its Chassis number 5 !
I dont know if thats serious and the car on the picture look like a T282 284 or 286 .... For me the chassis 5
( HU 05 ? ) is the T280/2 winner of the Paris 1000 kms 1972
This new car arrived by Bonnier team in September 1972 when
Marianne Bonnier would continue the team (dixit G Larousse)

Michael Oliver

12 Dec 2003, 22:32

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
I meet last year the owner of this T280 in the Le Mans
Classic event and he telled me that its Chassis number 5 !
I dont know if thats serious and the car on the picture look like a T282 284 or 286 .... For me the chassis 5
( HU 05 ? ) is the T280/2 winner of the Paris 1000 kms 1972
This new car arrived by Bonnier team in September 1972 when
Marianne Bonnier would continue the team (dixit G Larousse)

Hi Alain

I guess that would make sense, if it was chassis 5. I know that it was reported as a write-off after its Kyalami practice crash but in those days it would have to be pretty badly damaged for them to throw the whole car away, so I guess it was rebuilt at some point...

Therefore, to me, chassis 5 would be a T282, not a T280, although I know they were often referred to as T280/2s, weren't they?

Jeremy Jackson

12 Dec 2003, 23:04

Alain, Michael,

Seems reasonable to me. The Paris car had the original T280 body, and ran in Ecurie Bonnier's colours, so whether it was called a T282 or T280/2 I'm not sure. Autosport described it as the prototype T282, but since we believe the chassis were numbered sequentially in the T280/2/4/6 series, so I guess it's OK either way...

Alain HACHE

4 Jan 2004, 13:12

first T280 race was Buenos aires 1000 kms , french magasine SPORT AUTO telled in n° 121 that R Wissel
had run second chrono behind R Peterson during practice
(Ferrari team agree this chrono )but race organization
refused and give to the Lola 5th place on start grid . During the race Wissel got black flag and must stop but that was again organization's mistake ... Wissel was back on the track but loosed 15 minutes and finished only 7th
This kind of events seem difficult to believe so can somebody confirm ?

Jeremy Jackson

4 Jan 2004, 13:36

Alain,

According to Autosport's report, there was an organiser's mix-up regarding the Lolas. The Craft/Larrousse car was black-flagged for leaving the pits under a red light. (They changed their minds, and the car later re-joined).
Larrousse was put in the other car in place of Bonnier, apparently because Bonnier had argued with the organisers over the disqualification, and he was worried "that the orgainsers might take things further"

No mention about the practice you mentioned - Bonnier/Wisell had 5th fastest time, Craft/Larrousse 7th. But Wisell began half a lap late because the car wouldn't start.

Hope you followed that!

Alain HACHE

4 Jan 2004, 14:58

yes Jeremy I follow
SPORT AUTO tell exactly: la Lola de Wissel descend son chrono largement en dessous de deux minutes. Elle aurait réalisé le deuxiéme temps d'après ses chronométreurs et ceux de Ferrari . Le chronométrage officiel n'est pas d'accord et ne lui accorde que le cinquiéme temps , ce qui est déjà excellent pour une première sortie etc ....
Jeremy it seem that Bonnier and Ferrari teams was ok about
Wissel lap time in spite of Race Organization .About black flag Jo Bonnier had a great fury and "meet" argentin Police
after dispute with race manager . Probably Jo Bonnier must
give excuse , SPORT AUTO tell no more about that...
à bientôt

phdm

15 Jan 2004, 21:06

Jean Blaton has/had two cars. The one entered in the Poulain aution in December 1999 (did not sell) was T282 HU6. The other one T286 HU7.
One Swiss Cheese liveried car did indeed pass through the hands of Willy Widar. It came from Switzerland. No idea of the chassis number. No idea where it went afterwards.

Alain HACHE

15 Jan 2004, 21:58

thanks PDHM.
who is Willy Widar ? Also (like T280)some T290 from Jo Bonnier's team had swiss cheese livery .
Is the chassis number of J Blaton's T282:HU 06 ? If you sure of that it could be very interessant to understand
the story of the T280 ,282 ,284 ,286 .
à bientôt ALAIN

phdm

15 Jan 2004, 23:07

Willy Widar was a Belgian car builder (he built the Lola Mk1 inspired Widi and some other derivatives) and restorer.
He passed away a few years ago. He was well known in the historic racing circles. His name was mentioned in one of the above posts. The car was definitely a DFV engined Lola.

If you look at the Poulain auction catalogue, the Blaton's car is listed as "HU282/6". Amazingly there is also a picture of a chassis plate reading T286 HU7. There are a few pictures of "the" car but one can see one car with chromed roll hoop and yellow rear view mirror and one car with black roll hoop and black rear view mirror. So JB has/had two cars. For what it is worth, the rumour was that one car was suspect.

Kojima_KE007

16 Jan 2004, 00:01

That is very interesting.

A story I heard is that the first T286 built was designated as chassis 06 by Lola. Therefore there should be no more than 5 T280s and T282s combined in total.

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 00:23

We thought on page 4 of this thread that HU05 was the prototype T282 or T280/2, and there weren't many customers for the T282, apart from the Filipinetti/Gitanes chassis (Would this have been HU5 or 6?)

Autosport's 1975 article on Lola had a table which had the total of 6 T280/T282s. So with 3(+1; HU10) T286s in '77 (From HU10 advert on race-cars.com: "In 1977, Lola built on 3 T286s, but after an order by Alain de Cadenet, a 4th was built."), that would work.

However, I don't know where the T284 fits in - Schulthess' car is called T284 or T286 at various times, but delivered just before Le Mans 1974. An update perhaps, or HU6, IF the Gitanes car was HU5?

Michael Oliver

16 Jan 2004, 11:07

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
We thought on page 4 of this thread that HU05 was the prototype T282 or T280/2, and there weren't many customers for the T282, apart from the Filipinetti/Gitanes chassis (Would this have been HU5 or 6?)

Autosport's 1975 article on Lola had a table which had the total of 6 T280/T282s. So with 3(+1; HU10) T286s in '77 (From HU10 advert on race-cars.com: "In 1977, Lola built on 3 T286s, but after an order by Alain de Cadenet, a 4th was built."), that would work.

However, I don't know where the T284 fits in - Schulthess' car is called T284 or T286 at various times, but delivered just before Le Mans 1974. An update perhaps, or HU6, IF the Gitanes car was HU5?

Maybe the prototype T280/2, which was crashed at Kyalami and described as a write-off, was rebuilt. It those days it was quite unusual for a car to be junked unless nothing could be salvaged from it, and the identify of a previous chassis was often used in order to be able to use the same paperwork. So perhaps the Gitanes car from 1973 was given the chassis number HU05? Does anybody have any information to the contrary? Also, maybe the Schulthess car was the Gitanes car updated to 74 spec? Just thoughts off the top of my head BTW, without reference to any journals!

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 11:24

Hi Michael,

I agree with the Kyalami car possibly being rebuilt using HU05, but (with the benefit of referring to journals!) the ex-Gitanes car was used by Jolly Club in 1974-75 and driven by Lella Lombardi / Giorgio Pianta in 1977 (I'm assuming still entered by Jolly Club, but nothing to confirm that).

Dan Rear

16 Jan 2004, 14:16

What about the T380(s), I thought the de Cadenet 1975 car was one of these, rather than a T280 variant. It ceratinly looked more like the T390 2-litre cars than the 280/290 series. Or did you mean Jeremy that the 77 "de Cadenet LM" car was built around a T280/286 tub ?

Would a list of cars, T280-86, plus T380 be useful to update us at this point, its all getting a bit complex for me !

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 14:39

Dan,

de Cadenet's 75 car was T380-based. His 1977 order for a T286 was cancelled/not taken up, so that chassis sat at Lola until Wallis used it for Thundersports

There's not much more than the summary Michael used on about Page 3 of this:

HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72)
HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72)
HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72)

HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned)
HU02 was written off Le Mans 72
HU03 stays in Japan and is still there
HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?)"

T286: HU7-10? HU10 built 77, but unused until 1986

T286 also sold to Xavier Lapeyre, T284 (Or T286) to Heinz Schulthess in 1975 as I mentioned.

Not sure of much re:T380s, de Cadenet's 75 chassis was based on HU4, I believe, but was re-numbered LM-2 (LM-1 being the 1972-74 chassis, nee "Duckhams Special"

His 77 & 78 builds were completely new (i.e not Lola-based), AFAIK

Jolly Club had HU2 according to Autosport, and I think messrs Casoni/Capoferri may have raced this, despite it being referred to as a T390, but not totally convinced. May have actually been a T390 with a DFV.

Michael Oliver

16 Jan 2004, 14:43

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Hi Michael,

I agree with the Kyalami car possibly being rebuilt using HU05, but (with the benefit of referring to journals!) the ex-Gitanes car was used by Jolly Club in 1974-75 and driven by Lella Lombardi / Giorgio Pianta in 1977 (I'm assuming still entered by Jolly Club, but nothing to confirm that).

Jeremy

From what you say, it doesn't leave very many options for the Schulthess car... If we assume for now (always dangerous!)that the Gitanes T282 was HU05 rebuilt, which was then used by Jolly Club subsequent to 1973, the T284 must have been HU06? Unless it was HU07 and this car was later updated to T286 spec and given a chassis plate to reflect that. To sum up:

T280 HU01 Ecurie Bonnier, Rouveyran
T280 HU02 Ecurie Bonnier, written off Le Mans 72
T280 HU03 Takahara in Japan
T280 HU04 Gaspar, Jolly Club, Lord etc.
T282 HU05 Ecurie Bonnier/Gitanes, Jolly Club
T282 HU06 possibly T284 HU06 Schulthess
T284 HU07 possibly T286 HU07 ??

And after that I'm lost, as I haven't really looked into anything other than T280s and a bit of T282!

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 14:48

Michael,
Yep that looks OK to me, with HU08/09 being Lapeyre...

The type for Schulthess' car was inconsistently reported at the time, (due to inconsistent entries?), but I think it's place in the list is OK

Dan Rear

16 Jan 2004, 15:00

Chaps, thanks for the lists, all looks OK. Are we saying only 2 T380s were made, one to AdC, the other to Jolly Club both in 1975. When you say Jeremy that AdC's was built on -04 tub, di you mean T280-HU4, ie that it was an update rather than a brand new one?

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 15:46

AdC's 1975 car was apparently based on T380-HU4, re-numbered LM-2.

I've no idea re T380 nos 1 & 3. I doubt the T390s shared the chassis numbering. I would have been happier if AdC's chaasis was based on HU1! That still might be the case, as the source I had for HU4 isn't beyond errors...

T380-HU2 was Lolas 1001st chassis, according to Autosports; Nur. 75 report. According to Autosport's article in 1975 when 1000 was reached, the list has 1 x T380 and 2 x T390s upto that point (May 75)

Dan Rear

16 Jan 2004, 15:50

As I recall the T390s were Edwards(Caravans International etc) and Raymond (Fisons?). No others sold, possibly just as well, given that Lola reverted to the T290 series for 76-onwards ?

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 16:00

Reudi Jauslin raced one at the 1975 Hockenheim 2-litre race, so that would be a third chassis,

Raymond only raced his a couple of times, reverting back to Chevron, with a new B31, quite quickly!

Alain HACHE

16 Jan 2004, 18:45

about the T286 # 21 entered in the 24 H of Le Mans 1976 :
the annual book of C Moity and JM Teissédre tell that this car was just out from factory for the race , the owner was
Mr PAINVIN , Co drivers X Lapeyre and Chevanne , Cosworth engine from G Hill (?) , X Lapeyre made only a test before the race in Karland . The 2 reporters are very serious and I think that this info is correct but what can be the chassis number of this car out from factory in May or June 1976 ?

Michael Oliver

16 Jan 2004, 19:09

Originally posted by Alain HACHE
about the T286 # 21 entered in the 24 H of Le Mans 1976 :
the annual book of C Moity and JM Teissédre tell that this car was just out from factory for the race , the owner was
Mr PAINVIN , Co drivers X Lapeyre and Chevanne , Cosworth engine from G Hill (?) , X Lapeyre made only a test before the race in Karland . The 2 reporters are very serious and I think that this info is correct but what can be the chassis number of this car out from factory in May or June 1976 ?

Alain

Maybe this was Lapeyre's 1975 car, which had gone back to the Lola factory to be freshened up and to have any latest updates to the specification added?

Michael

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 19:40

The LM yearbook that Alain mentions says of this car "...(evolution of the T294 2-litres)"

Wonder if that means this was an upgraded 2-litre, as the T286 would logically be an evolution of the T284?

Only other option is that the 3 T286s made in 1977 is not quite 100%, and at least one was made in 76?

Alain HACHE

16 Jan 2004, 22:40

Yes Jeremy ,
T280 is also an evolution of T290 or is T290 an evolution of T280 ? At this time I think that LOLA factory builded a
lot of chassis abble to be T280 or T290, the same for
T284 and T294 etc etc ....So a chassis could get3L or 2L engine and why not ? change engine in her life ...So JM Teissédre could write: a evolution of .....
Maybe somebody know if the T280 chassis is exactly like T290 ?
Alain

fausto

16 Jan 2004, 22:42

The Jolly Club T282 was raced in 1974 by Pianta-Lombardi, with Lavazza sponsorship. In 1975 Pianta and Brambilla drove the car, plain white with Arrigoni sponsorship at Monza, then at Nurburgring they had a new T380 (plain white/Arrigoni).
The same car was used the following year by Capoferri partnered by "Pam" and, later in the year, Mario Casoni.

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 22:56

Fausto,

The Capoferri car was always referred to (in UK reports anyway) as a T390-DFV, so I wasn't sure whether it was an "inaccuracy" or a T390 uprated with a DFV. So this definitely was the Jolly Club T380?

Do you know anything about a T282 entered for Manfredini/Casoni in the 1977 Coppa Florio by Citta dei Mille?

Thanks

fausto

16 Jan 2004, 23:33

Jeremy, I remember from the period magazines that the Pianta/Brambilla/Casoni/Capoferri car was referred as T380, apparently it started life as an original 3 litres car, but you cannot trust Italian journalists on matters like non-Ferrari sportscar chassis numbers.
The Manfredini-Casoni 1977 car could be a Gulf Rondini sponsored car, Rondini being the Bergamo area Gulf dealer (and the company that helped Alessandro Pesenti Rossi with his mid-seventies F.1 adventure with Tyrrell), Scuderia Città dei Mille was from Bergamo too. At the time Capoferri was the Italian Lola importer and played around with various cars (T284, T286), he even built his own chassis, probably based on a Lola, the Capoferri M1.
More in a couple of days, when I reach the magazines, they aren't here with me...

Jeremy Jackson

16 Jan 2004, 23:54

Great, thanks very much.
UK sources also said the M1 was indeed Lola-based.

fausto

18 Jan 2004, 16:44

Writing about Pergusa 1977 I'm now going off-topic, please excuse me.....
I went through Autosprint (Italian motorsport weekly) and found out that at Pergusa 1977 there were three "Capoferri" Lolas:
-the Casoni-Manfredini car, apparently a T380 (for sure it wore a 380 bodywork....), probably the "Arrigoni" car
-a 3 litre class T286, powered by a 2.1 l. turbocharged Cosworth engine, practiced by Capoferri and Gottifredi, who was probably involved in the engine preparation
-a 2 litre T296 for Ghislotti and Camathias
All the cars sported Gulf sponsorship, the three liters being probably white (b/w pictures) while, if memory doesn't fail me, the 2 litre was Gulf blue.

Jeremy Jackson

18 Jan 2004, 17:34

Thanks again Fausto for clearing up those inaccuracies.

Wouldn't worry too much about going off-topic, we've done that a fair bit on this thread, so it's a bit of a general 3-litre Lola thread now!

Michael Oliver

8 Mar 2004, 01:50

Just noticed that Corrado Manfredini is listed as being entered in the 1000km Imola 4/6/74 in a T282 by 'Scuderia Brescia Corse', rather than Jolly Club, who he raced for at other times in the season. Is that a 'nom de plume' for Jolly Club?

Incidentally, apparently a second T282 was entered for the same event but did not appear, for Pianta/Pica, the regular Jolly Club pairing that year - perhaps because Manfredini got the nod (or had the wads!?).

Manfredini also appeared at the Nurburgring Interserie 8/9/74 and finished 5th in a T282, entered by Jolly Club. This T282 is presumably the one reported to be the ex-Gitanes works car from 1973, which is (IIRC) HU06 - I think Alain can confirm this as he actually has a build date for this car?

Two weeks later, Lella Lombardi finished 3rd in the Jolly Club T282 at the Casale Interserie. In the same race, Heinz Schulthess came 7th in a 'T284'. So at least we know they cannot be the same cars. Purely conjecture here, but maybe the wreck of the prototype T282 (HU05, crashed and apparently written off, Kyalami late 72) hung around for a while and was then rebuilt as a one-off T284 for the 74 season for Schulthess?

Next, a T282 is listed at not classified for the 1000km of Mugello 23/3/75 for "Pibo"/Gallo. No entrant listed but maybe this was the Jolly Club T282?

Schulthess is then listed in the results of the 800km Dijon 6/4/75, driving a 'T282' with Herve Bayard, as a DNF.

Schulthess still had his car 13/4/75 as he finished 2nd in an Interserie race at Hockenheim, although it is reported as a 'T284' again.

A week later, Brambilla/Pianta DNF in the 1000km Monza 20/4/75 in a T282 entered by the Jolly Club. Same car entered but DNA (presumably Jolly Club again) at the Coppa Florio at Enna, 18/5/75.

In the same 1000km Monza, 20/4/75, there is an interesting confluence, with Schulthess teaming up with Manfredini in a 'T284' entered by Gulf Switzerland. Car DNF.

For the 1000km Spa, 4/5/75, a T284 was driven by Belgians Christine Beckers and Willie Braillard, entered by Chappee RTS and DNF. Maybe they rented the car from Schulthess for the race?

Then Kurt Hild (is he the guy who was involved in the Rodriguez accident?) is listed as driving a T284S (not sure what the 'S' stands for?) 17/8/75 Interserie at Kassel-Calden. Again, perhaps he rented this from Schulthess?

Then in 1976, Schulthess entered his T284 for the 300km of Nurburgring, although I'm not clear about the date of this race. Then he drove with Francois Migault in the 200km of Salzburgring, data not sure, perhaps Sept 76, and DNF.

Only appearance for T280/2/4 in Interserie in 1976 was our friend Jorg Zaborowski, trying out his newly-purchased ex-Lord T280 HU04 in the round at Mainz-Finthen 24/10/76.

In 1977, Lombardi/Pianta DNF in a 'T282' at the 500km Monza 24/4/77, entered by Pianta, while Manfredini/Ghislotti were entered in a 'T282' but DNA, reportedly entered by Manfredini. Presumably the Lombardi/Pianta car was still the ex-Gitanes HU06?

Then on 2/6/77, 400km Vallelunga, Lombardi DNF in a T282, while Manfredini was reportedly entered in a T284 (to be borrowed from his co-driver of the prevoius year Schulthess perhaps?) but DNA.

Then, as Jeremy has already mentioned, Casoni/Manfredini (that man again!) teamed up in a 'T282' to finish 5th in the Coppa Florio at Enna, 19/6/77, entered by Citta dei Mille. Now Fausto has reported that this was actually a T380, so perhaps this is a T282 red herring?

So this would/should leave us with four T280s (HU01-4), two T282s (HU05/6) one of which (HU05?) was perhaps rebuilt for 1974 as a one-off T284. Then the T286 run began at HU07?

Lastly, just a small point Jeremy: I see you talk about Schulthess's car being referred to variously as either a T284 or T286. I've not seen it referred to as a T286 (not that that means much!) but I have seen one reference calling it a T282. Most, however, call it a T284.

Maybe this helps to clear one or two things up?

Cheers

Michael