March 712M

Rajah with the ex Peterson 712M-7 is confirmed in UK [but described as 73B.] 712M-5 [ex Beuttler] was similarly kitted for Ray Mallock, a car then sold to Arthur Collier in Ireland. And 712M-11 [a Shell-Arnold car sold to Colin Andrews for 72 Atlantic was sort of kitted for Mike Sullivan racing in 74. Jonesy even won a race in it - somehow, considering how badly it was prepared. Then he got to drive your car.

The noting of the Mike Mather car as 712M -12 which we know to have been ex Graham Coaker, rather debunks the claim for Coaker's car to have been 712M-24 [ex Walkinshaw] made over on the nostalgia forum

Chris

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
The noting of the Mike Mather car as 712M -12 which we know to have been ex Graham Coaker, rather debunks the claim for Coaker's car to have been 712M-24 [ex Walkinshaw] made over on the nostalgia forum

Chris Chris

You did see this didn't you?

Originally posted by Adam F on TNF 12-Apr-04 12:13
As a belated response to Gerard Barathieu's request for details of March 712M's, I can add the following from the (sporadic) March factory records of which I have copies :-

712M-1 Test Car
712M-2 Frank Williams
712M-3 Eifelland
712M-4 Frank Williams
712M-5 Mike Beuttler
712M-6 Xavier Perrot
712M-7 Ronnie Peterson
712M-8 Tom Walkinshaw
712M-9 N. Lauda, Sold to French Hillclimber Gerard as 712M-10
712M-10 JP Jaussaud, Sold to Colin Andrews
712M-11 JP Jarier, Sold to J Joliat, Switzerland
712M-12 Graham Coaker
712M-14 Quester
712M-15 John Cannon
712M-16 Fredy Link
712M-17 Wilson Fittipaldi
712M-18 Ala d'Oro
712M-19 Ala d'Oro
712M-20 Carlos Pace
712M-21 Hire Car

There may be no end to the stuff being liberated from Adam's attic!

He's now been kind enough to send me some UK Formula Atlantic results sheets from 1973 and 1975 and US Formula B results from 1971 and 1972. (Chris, I'll add the results sheets to the programs in your package).

The 1971 Formula FB results are interesting as they show Bill Gubelmann in a March 712M, not the 71BM used by Lazier, Dykes, Mizejewski, Grimaldi and Lang. The listings we have on this thread for the 712M don't mention Gubelmann.

Anyone have any ideas?

Allen

Regarding the Gubelmann 712M. What date does it appear?
I know that Adam's build record for the model only goes to 20 and we can account for all of those in Europe in 1971. However, F1R attribute chassis 25 to Williams quite late on in season. I'd always taken this to be a dodgy number, especially as the car only appears when another Williams chassis [4] is missing.
However, if the run really did go to 25 what were 21, 22, 23, 24?
Would this be a run built for N.America as the 712BM [of which there were probably only 2 or 3 since that's all that appear together] and a 712M for Gubelmann?

I have 712M-21 being run by Ala d'Oro for Tino Brambilla, then appearing with Sten Gunnarson, and from Brands Hatch with James Hunt
Info gleaned at the time, no doubt from Autosport and/or Motoring News
No higher numbers though (except than John Harper was running a '24' about ten years ago)

712M/10 aka 712M/"9"

Was later the Kim Mather libre "752". See the March F2 thread (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1664101#post1664101).

Hi guys,can you help find the history of 712m-5, my freind now owns the car and we are trying to find the history of it after Arthur Collier raced it as a 73b in Ireland, he bought the car as a pile of bits supposedly coming from America and restored it. We need to find out who previously owned the car. Any help would be much appreciated.

The before Arthur Collier bit of this car's history is fairly well known. Where it went post Collier I'm afraid I can't help with. It seems to disappear from Irish Atlantic fields after 1974.

Chris

712M-9 N. Lauda, Sold to French Hillclimber Gerard as 712M-10

From a post earlier this morning on TNF:

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
The story of March 712 begin in the south of France in the mid 80. I want to buy a rolling chassis of March 712-10 in very bad condition, but a man was more quick than me and I can't buy it. Some month later I find the chassis near Lyon in a race preparation workshop and, at my great surprise they were TWO absolutly new cars : one with the correct plate 712-10 and the other without chassis plate. The remain of the poor old thing go to rubish !! The man, sometime after sale the "al new" correct one, and few week after the "replica". That is a simple as that.
Finaly... I bought and other 712, a very true one, believe to be 712-21 as tell the plate. I enjoy during some season this lovely little F2.

Powerslide Marz 1974 p.42

A Hangartner verkauft seinen

March 712 F2
2 Platz Schweizer Meiaterschaft
mit samtichem Zubehor wie:
1 Motor 1600 ccm, neu ab Prufbank
1 Anhanger
18 Felgen, bereiff
Ubersetzungen usw.

Sich melden: Tel 032/2 36 51
order 032//42 04 82

So that's a March 712M, second place in the Swiss championship [which was I believe a combination of hillclimbs and races run in Germany] with a full set of spares including new 1600cc engine with dyno readings, eighteen wheels with tyres, and what might either be a steering rack or a wing? [Anhanger is a rail or support of some kind], fully set up? [Ubersetzungen relates to place, but in the sense of translation...] Offered by A. Hangartner

Chris

As our Berlin correspondent says, the SchweizerMeisterschaft or Campionato svizzero depending on your canton, was basically a combination of slaloms, hill climbs and a set of races at Hockenheim.

I have "La Stangione Automobilistica 69" which gives top 10 and class winners for each event in the 1969 series when the four main single-seater classes were F3, 1100cc, FV and 1600cc. Major internationals such as St Ursanne-Les rangier and Ollon-Villars (typically both at the end of August) had 1600cc-3000cc and over 3000cc classes.

In that 1969 series André or Andreas Hängärtner, to give his full battery of accents, was classified tenth overall at St Ursanne and fifth at Mitholz in a 'Brabham F3', then sixth at Kerenzerberg in a 'Brabham BT21C' and finally sixth at Marchairuz in a BT21 F3 which won the F3 class.

Allen

Swiss 712Ms:

1971
Xavier Perrot (Squadra Tartaruga) - F2 & HC 712M-6 1971
Fredy Link - F2 (& HC?)712M-16 Renault

1972
Peter Korda - F2 & HC 712M (712M-16 according to F1R)
André Hängärtner - HC 712M

1973
Fredy Link DNA at April Hockenheim in "712M"
Peter Korda - F2 (Hockenheim in June only) 712M/BDA
André Hängärtner - HC 712M

1974
Peter Korda - F2 (Hockenheim only) 722/BDA or 712M/BDA

Also, in 1973, F1R report a minor race with Hans Affentranger, Korda and Link all in BDA-powered 712Ms at Hockenheim 22 July. I can't find this event in Autosprint. Andrew - can your Powerslides help?

Allen

As yet dont have July or August for that year.
Andrew

Wikipedia strikes again! Hans Affentranger has a page (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Affentranger)! Apparantly he died a little over a year ago.

Allen

Korda's 1972 car confirmed as 712M-16 by MN 20 Apr 72, pp. 6-7
also described there as 'ex Link'

Tino Brambilla also present with 712M-18

Chris

Swiss 712Ms never die. Swiss driver Chaboudez wins the 1600cc classes in one at Vuillafans on 2/3 Jun 1979.

712M-9 N. Lauda, Sold to French Hillclimber Gerard as 712M-10
712M-10 JP Jaussaud, Sold to Colin Andrews
712M-11 JP Jarier, Sold to J Joliat, Switzerland
This has had me foxed as I couldn't find a M Gerard hillclimbing in France in 1972 but I've just had a duh moment while reading Echappment #44 which dropped anonymously through my letterbox this morning. Gérard Malun makes his first appearance (at Mt Jura) in an "ex-Peterson" March '712'. Joliat appears shortly afterwards (at Wissembourg) in his 712M.

So just four Marches in French hillclimbs in 1972, these two and the two new 722s of Jimmy Mieusset and Xavier Perrot.

Allen

Just to say that Peterson never drove that car - except perhaps in testing - regardless of the plate it had on it.

Chris

Indeed. I quoted it just to demonstrate the point you've made before about every Ralt RT4 being ex-Andretti, every 250F being ex-Fangio and so on.

By the way, I may have been premature to say that there were only four Marchs in French hillclimbs in 1972 as I am still missing a few 1972 editions of Echappement. The Swiss cars may race somewhere: ex-Perrot 712M-6 is still around as is Peter Korda's ex-Fredy Link 712M-16 and André Hängärtner's 712M.

Allen

A little on 712M-05 here (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1872599#post1872599)

See this thread (http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94662) on TNF about John Bowtell's "March 73B" - actually a 71 car so presumably one of the lost 712Ms.

Or a 713M. Or a 71B. Or.......Sorry just putting my or in

Or a 713M. Or a 71B. Or.......Sorry just putting my or in

Is that an either or?

Ian Barrowman entered a March 712M for in UK Atlantics for Mike Campbell-Cole through 1972 but it never appeared. Anyone with the time to chase this up will be interested to know that Campbell-Cole's contacts details are here (http://www.classicf3.co.uk/Teams&Drivers/M_Campbell_Cole/M_campbell_cole.htm).

Allen

I had an email from Mike some time ago after enquiring about this car.
He was going to talk to Ian Barrowman, but never got back to me...

Chris

Did MIke ever see the car? Did it actually exist?

BTW - and OT - here's Warren 'Bud' Pauge (http://www.youthsciencecenter.org/about/leaders/pauge.htm) of BT38 fame. Already spoken to him too?

Seen at the Historic F2 meeting over Easter at Thruxton were:
712-5 (F2 class) Paul Bason;
712M-6 (F2 class) Sid Hoole;
712-24 (F2 class) James King;
712M-11 (F At class) David Wild and Neil Fowler.

Interesting:
If the Wild and Fowler car is a 712M rather than a 71BM it's one of the links in the bizarre plate switching exercise that went on at March between Lauda's car and the two Shell Arnold chassis at the end of 1971. That's to say it's almost certainly 9 or 10 rather than 11, but we know 11 [ex Jaussaud] wore 9 [ex Lauda] in 1972, and 10 [ex Jarier] was sold to Joliat and may have surfaced recently.
In fact, looking at my notes, Robert Simac had chassis 11 in 2001 and I think that this probably had the second iteration of the ex Lauda chassis 9 under it.

I like James King a lot so I'll be careful how I say this, but I don't think that 24 is the right plate for that car, either as a 71BM [for which it has FIA papers] or as a 712M. I'm sure it's a genuine 71BM but the provenance of the plate may be a little more suspect. The build records for 712M stops at 21 and 71BM at 17

Chris