Williams failed again!!

Can Williams reliability get any worse. Webbers car has failed again. The sooner he leaves Williams the better. The are pathetic at the moment. The car is fast but whats the point in that. They can't finish a dam race.

Did f1.com say what happened to the car? All I read was that Mr Webber's Williams went off and he climbed from the car... so couldnt tell from that if it was a crash or a blowup :( I turned it off after that :(:(

It's an anti Mark conspiracy!

Car problem, he apparently pulled off the track cause the car was dead.

Car problem, he apparently pulled off the track cause the car was dead.

It says:


Lap 14 - Webber runs off track and his car has stopped - he gets out of the car to retire

Did he crash or did it blow up?

Webber said it was a hydraulic problem, although just before reports were of a transmission problem.

Williams has had reliability problems.
So has Honda!
So has Red Bull!

Watch a pre-21st century GP and your head will explode!

It seems that this race has had quite a high attrition rate though far considering it's only gone by half distance so far.....

Webber said it was a hydraulic problem, although just before reports were of a transmission problem.

Williams has had reliability problems.
So has Honda!
So has Red Bull!

Watch a pre-21st century GP and your head will explode!

More trouble with that seamless shift gearbox.... Renault use a conventional box and look where they are :rolleyes:

Poor old Potsie :(

Midland use a conventional gearbox too!
Renault have a car better for starting races and look at them!
McLaren has a clever 'box look at them!

They all do what they do.

Watch a pre-21st century GP and your head will explode!

:laugh:

Think about McLaren's previous years...

7 laps to go and both Montoya and Ralf retire on the same lap, 13 runners out of 22 left...

I can't remember seeing 7 cars break down during the same race before; from 6 different teams as well. It was a shame for Mark as he did a good job in the early part of the race, and a finish ahead of Nico in the points could have been on (not on outright pace but through the reliability issues of others, it should be noted).

Mark has done a good job all season, but if the car lets him down and Rosberg gets a good result, he gets to look the golden boy.

Fact is, Mark has made it into the qualifying top ten every race so far this year and scarcely put a wheel wrong.

I wonder how long he'll be willing to bite his tongue whilst having microphones shoved in his face.

Also great to see someone so highly criticised last year for their first lap tactics have an absolute blinder, while it lasted

The highest failure rate for a while, since that infamous rain soaked Brazil I bet.

How times change, a few years ago and we wouldn't think it unusual to see so many retirements.

In some quarters it was deamed a bad thing that everything was reliable. Now it is bad because they aren't. Oh well. :)

not only is there an anti mark conspircay, theres a anti button one to

To be fair, though, Williams have got a definite problem on their hands. Not that it worries me, but it would be nice to see them finish (the more finishing the better, IMHO, although I would not mind one Alonso DNF).

I can't remember seeing 7 cars break down during the same race before; from 6 different teams as well. It was a shame for Mark as he did a good job in the early part of the race, and a finish ahead of Nico in the points could have been on (not on outright pace but through the reliability issues of others, it should be noted).

Always there to help you my friend: You might recall Indy 2005 when 14 cars retired at the end of the formation lap due to tyre weaknesses.;)

Can Williams reliability get any worse. Webbers car has failed again. The sooner he leaves Williams the better. The are pathetic at the moment. The car is fast but whats the point in that. They can't finish a dam race.

What else can you expect from a car made in the U.K.? :boo1:

Incidently, I noted with some amusement that ITV lured their audience to believe for a while that NR was on a one stopper. Had they watched the TV description in French at RDS in Canada (i.e made by people in studio in Montreal looking at the same feed as what is broadcasted on ITV), they would have known from the moment NR completed his first pitstop that he had to pit one more time based upon the duration of that stop.

Joking apart, one has to appreciate how difficult it is to succeed in f1 without the funding and technical support of an international car manufacturer. See what turned out from Arrows when they took over Hart.

It is unrealistic to believe that Williams / Cosworth may keep up with the Renault, Ferrari, Honda, Toyota, Daimler & BMW over the whole of a f1 season. I think they should be praised for what they have achieved so far in 2006.

(Is it ok Frank? Are you going to give a drive to JV next year?)

It was a shame for Mark as he did a good job in the early part of the race, and a finish ahead of Nico in the points could have been on (not on outright pace but through the reliability issues of others, it should be noted).

quite right - I think 5th was going to be pretty straightforward - regardless of retirements - he was quite a way up the road from Rosberg.

Williams really do need to get themselves sorted out. It's a beautiful & quick car but there's been sooooo many retirements. If it's broke then fix it. Scrap the seamless-shift box & use a conventional one until the new one is ready-at least they'd finish the race.

It was a shame really that Williams did'nt put Nico on a 2 stopper. He made it till lap 33 (?) & he could have easily managed a good 5th place if he hadn't stopped again. I really couoldn't see the advantage of it. There obviously wasn't a problem with running heavy & he certainly wouldn't have finished any lower than he did. Strange!

quite right - I think 5th was going to be pretty straightforward - regardless of retirements - he was quite a way up the road from Rosberg.

Sam Michael said pretty much the same thing after the race

yes, sam michael said that mark and nico were on the same strategy for the race, hence both were very heavy. I dont think its being unreasonable to say mark would have been pretty assured of at least 5th, but would have been tough to end up anywhere near kimi...

Could the gearbox problem be related to marks driving style? ie could he be harder on the gearbox on downshifts, upshifts or something?

im only speculating, more due to searching for reasoning at another disappointment at watching and hoping, to see a promising start again yielding nothing more than a parked car pretty early in the race, meaning all us fans have to continute writing on here about the whatifs... :rolleyes:

:error:

yes, sam michael said that mark and nico were on the same strategy for the race, hence both were very heavy. I dont think its being unreasonable to say mark would have been pretty assured of at least 5th, but would have been tough to end up anywhere near kimi...

Could the gearbox problem be related to marks driving style? ie could he be harder on the gearbox on downshifts, upshifts or something?

im only speculating, more due to searching for reasoning at another disappointment at watching and hoping, to see a promising start again yielding nothing more than a parked car pretty early in the race, meaning all us fans have to continute writing on here about the whatifs... :rolleyes:

:error: Oh Well.........Cheers

Williams were saying the failure came from a sudden loss of hydraulic fluid, so its a bit hard to say it was the gearbox that gave way

Put yourself in Webber's shoes.

He copped a lot of flak from a lot of people last year - some warranted, a lot not. But he took it all on the chin.

This year, his act has been totally together.

His qualifying has been mega and he has always been quite close to the sharp end. He retired from the lead (and an almost certain podium) in his home race, retired from 4th in Malaysia and now retires from 12th (and a good potential points haul) after moving up 8 places on the first two laps.

He has been magnificent - and all he's got in return is a 5th, a 6th and three DNFs, despite being in a pretty decent car.

It's got to be driving him mental.

Go here..... (http://www.pitpass.com/src/seasons/2006/statistics/teamreliability.php)

Williams are really on top of their game at the moment.:rolleyes:

Well, it sure didn't take long for a bash Williams thread to appear... :rolleyes:

It was a shame really that Williams did'nt put Nico on a 2 stopper. He made it till lap 33 (?) & he could have easily managed a good 5th place if he hadn't stopped again. I really couoldn't see the advantage of it. There obviously wasn't a problem with running heavy & he certainly wouldn't have finished any lower than he did. Strange!

is it just me or does this seem rather common place this season? there seems to be countless times already where someone was filled according to a one-stop strategy at the start, then swapped to a 2-stop with a short fill at the first stop?

Well, it sure didn't take long for a bash Williams thread to appear... :rolleyes:

What kind of finishing rate would justify (in your words) a "bashing thread"? If a driver binned it every second time they went on track they would be crucified...

A 50% finishing rate is not acceptable.

Cars have a lot more to do than drivers, which is why they fail more often. It's not even as if Williams-Cosworth have the worst combined reliability, they are just focused on here because they have a driver from an English-speaking country which loves motor racing and is desperate for a top-line driver.

What kind of finishing rate would justify (in your words) a "bashing thread"? If a driver binned it every second time they went on track they would be crucified...

A 50% finishing rate is not acceptable.

What would you prefer: A higher finishing rate constantly out of the points or pushing the engine, gear back, etc to the maximum such that, when you finish, you are in the points. Personnally, I would go for the latter as Williams are doing.

Louis B,

You may not see this very often from me but,...

Hear hear! ;)

Can Williams reliability get any worse. Webbers car has failed again. The sooner he leaves Williams the better. The are pathetic at the moment. The car is fast but whats the point in that. They can't finish a dam race.

well, Rosberg finished the race, so they CAN finish races.

the thing is: Williams was supposed to be a top contender last year, since they had BMW factory backing. this year, the tables have turned: BMW left, leaving Williams a privateer contender with a fraction of the budget they had last year. they can't just turn things around from one GP to another, every improvement they need takes a lot more time.
after those years of being at the top, it takes a little getting used to to see tem in that position, but they still try as hard as they can.

McLaren have had years of experience and still blow up. Cosworth have had to put up with Ford and now with around £20million that Williams have to pay they make an engine that beats Honda. Honda that spend around £50 million that is. So not so bad.

Go here..... (http://www.pitpass.com/src/seasons/2006/statistics/teamreliability.php)

Williams are really on top of their game at the moment.:rolleyes:Statistically there isn't really a big enough selection there, but it isn't ideal. I'll wait until failures start denying him GP victories before thinking there is a major problem here- now that will be annoying and has happened to many. Webber needs to be fighting at the front, better he does that and not finish at the moment than trundle round and finish.

As for whether Webber can take this I think he can. His fans can't, but fortunately he can.

What would you prefer: A higher finishing rate constantly out of the points or pushing the engine, gear back, etc to the maximum such that, when you finish, you are in the points. Personnally, I would go for the latter as Williams are doing.

Every failure has been from the points (predicted or actual) so your point is not clear. If the team were able to give both drivers more miles who knows where they would be. I feel especially for Nico in this respect. The limited running these guys are doing at the moment is amaturish at best.

What would I prefer - Williams to do a similar job to that of Renault or Ferrari. Simple. Clearly speed does not have to come at the expense of reliability, poor execution is what is causing the team to slip back. The problem is that it is not isolated to the engineering side, the pitwall management has been fairly average for some time, dare I say since the other Aussie took over.

What would I prefer - Williams to do a similar job to that of Renault or Ferrari. Simple. Clearly speed does not have to come at the expense of reliability, poor execution is what is causing the team to slip back. The problem is that it is not isolated to the engineering side, the pitwall management has been fairly average for some time, dare I say since the other Aussie took over.

Simple, give Williams the same budget and ressources as Renault & Ferrari and then you will be fully justified to complain.

P.S. Speed has indeed often to come at the expense of reliability.

You only need to look at McLaren to figure that one out...

And then look at Ferrari and Renault and wonder why....

And then look at Red Bull & Super Aguri to realise that it could be worse...

Simple, give Williams the same budget and ressources as Renault & Ferrari and then you will be fully justified to complain.

Please justify your assertion that Renault operate on a budget larger than that of Williams. All of the reports I have seen on the topic indicate Renault, by far, get the best performance per dollar (euro) spent and shame most of the other race winning teams in terms of total budget.

As a Williams fan I every right to express my criticism of the teams current performance, the criticism is fair and reasonable. The teams job is to get the car to the finish line in the fastest possible time. They are not doing that on a regular basis - nor are Honda and McLaren but this is a Williams thread….

P.S. Speed has indeed often to come at the expense of reliability.
Name the last team that won the Championship by not finishing 50% of the races.

No team PLANS to have speed over reliability, the objective is to achieve the optimum balance between the two. Quite simply they are failing in their objective.


BTW Louis B, you might wish to reconsider your definition of the word "complain". If you are going to be condescending to people who wish to share an opinion contrary to your own then you, especially you, are on very thin ground.

Well I'm not going to sink the boot into Williams for this . Its a F1 car running at high loads and stress and well $hit happens . I do think if this keeps being the case (which as the year goes on it just may due to the loads of $$$$$ needed to R&D a F1 car which Williams may have not have compared to the makers ) and the car does not improve or worsens this will only give Mark more ammo to go to Renault ( which he should have in the 1st place ).
Williams Have a few issue's they can't seem to get they Quail down right mark is doing a awesome job but the team drop the ball in the final 10mins and have done every time this year , to add to that the car does look quite weak and as the old saying goes to finish 1st ,1st you have to finish sadly Williams is failing on both accounts.
Mark is driving great and is able to do much more (car allowing) and while I think Nico is also a very good driver I feel a little let down in the last two races as he is back in his backyard from the flyaway rounds and I thought he would have done better (this IS NOT A DIG just a observation)

Please justify your assertion that Renault operate on a budget larger than that of Williams.

Err... Errr... :o ... they have a free supply of engines and may afford Flavio?


As a Williams fan I every right to express my criticism of the teams current performance, the criticism is fair and reasonable. The teams job is to get the car to the finish line in the fastest possible time. They are not doing that on a regular basis - nor are Honda and McLaren but this is a Williams thread….

I just think you are too crual with your beloved team.


Name the last team that won the Championship by not finishing 50% of the races.

I see :doh:, you really thought that Williams had a chance to win the championship this year...

No team PLANS to have speed over reliability, the objective is to achieve the optimum balance between the two. Quite simply they are failing in their objective.

They all wish to have both but they seldom succeed.

BTW Louis B, you might wish to reconsider your definition of the word "complain". If you are going to be condescending to people who wish to share an opinion contrary to your own then you, especially you, are on very thin ground.

Let's look at the broader picture here. :photo:

this is you: :rant:

that's me: :flower1:

and this is Bononi: :admin:

Who do you think is on the thinnier ground?

Who do you think is on the thinnier ground?
Isn't "thinnier" some kind of foot fungus?

In terms of Williams reliability I think the team would be the first to say they are not performing at a level they and all their fans would come to expect of them.

As for their qualifying performances, i think that is mainly down to the fact that every race so far they have fuelled up the cars to run longer than most of the others. I would like to see them try a more aggressive strategy and see what comes of it, if they finish of course;)

In terms of Williams reliability I think the team would be the first to say they are not performing at a level they and all their fans would come to expect of them.

As for their qualifying performances, i think that is mainly down to the fact that every race so far they have fuelled up the cars to run longer than most of the others. I would like to see them try a more aggressive strategy and see what comes of it, if they finish of course;)
Agree, I suspect, as with any organisation successful in a tough business, they are harder on themselves than anyone. Character is demonstrated by how they pull through.

Also agree, I am sure one of the stat nazi's will know the exact averages, but I would doubt that anyone has run as consistently long as Williams, and when people went to the same final qual load (JPM @ the European) the speed was the same as Webber. I have seen Sam Michael somewhere being quoted as saying that they like the options, and that it constantly shows to be better in their modeling

yep, lets face it, its not their strategy which has been letting them down... last year they were fuelled more aggressively at the same races such as imola and got caught out being stuck behind toyotas etc, when it looked like they had more pace. so i'm pleased they've been running heavier and longer into the race... much prefer this to the present honda quali / race predicament...

its not doomsday, though it is frustrating to not make full use of the package at the moment when its quick, because as is suggested, i think they might tail off slightly towards the end of the year relative to the development of other manufacturer teams, though maybe not...

BUT, whilst not having a major sponsor is a concern, i seriously doubt they are, or on the horizon of being in any heavy financial problems such as has been mentioned or hinted at... of course, they wouldnt want to go another season without a title sponsor however...

As for their qualifying performances, i think that is mainly down to the fact that every race so far they have fuelled up the cars to run longer than most of the others. I would like to see them try a more aggressive strategy and see what comes of it, if they finish of course;)


this is only half the problem with there Qualiy effots the main problem its the last tyre change its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to late
to bring a car in with 3 mins is a joke and a bad one and every time (yes every time )mark pits just within 3mins to go the tyres don't get a chance
the min time should be 5 mins max williams continue to make this mistake and mark can not get off 6-10 on the grid due a a waste of a set of tyres cause he doesn't have a chance to use them its dumb very dumb .

Heres "some" relief for the immediate future: http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/060508192922.shtml