March 782

Thanks Fabian. Could you share some pictures of your car in its Can-Am bodywork. I'm confident I could then tell you its Can-Am history. Do you know who ran it as a Can-Am car?

I'd be happy to post the pictures for you if that's easier. I'm at allen@oldracingcars.com.

Allen

We are also looking for a bodywork, new or used for the car. My customer will restore the car to his original condition (Toleman bodywork and colors). If you know something about a bodywork. We also must fit a BMW M12 engine on place of the Hart engine. Someone know when the Bmw engine was replaced by the Hart ?
Thanks,

Fabian

toleman cars ran bmw in rad dougalls car in 78 henton had hart
in 79 Rad dougal had a hart not BMW
then he had his rt2 hart car from mid season
henton had rt2 all season
i can supply u with new body and i may have used side pods here

Here is Fabian's picture:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/images/various/March782-CanAm.jpg

It's a Cicale body of course but presumably a new one or a newly-restored one as it lacks any signs of being used (number, decals, mirrors). David Locke ran a yellow Cicale-March in the latter years of the series but that's not this car as his was an 832. Locke's earlier Cicale-bodied car was a 77B. This is more likely to be Dick Guider's original Marguey but I thought that had been rebuilt on a 80A chassis.

To identify this positively, I'll need a bit more to go on. Does the car have any log books or any documentation from its time in the US?

Allen

We dont have any idee about the story of the car terefore I'm looking for information about it.
No papers and no story, nothing !!!! The seller say just that it come from Vasek Polack stock, he buy the car with some other Porsche racing cars and parts in a lot, I thing last year. That's all !!!!????
We have time for the story of the car, for the moment we need some (color if possible) pictures of the car at the hands of Dougall or Needell in the Toleman team 78-79. Also a right bodywork to restore it to his original condition.

Thanks for your help,

Fabian

Fabian

Could you email me a picture of the chassis plate please. As there are two claimants to be 782-12, it might be worth doing a bit more checking before restoring it to a spac that might not be right.

Thanks

Allen

"Cicale body" . Where can I find information about "Cicale body's" ?

Fabian

Is it come from Tony Cicale ? The man from Indy and Cart series ?

Fabian

In 1978, Tony Cicale designed a body to go on a new Ralt RT1 to use in Can-Am. For a school teacher, Cicale turned out to be an expert aerodynamicst and his Ralt was a huge success. He built another car for 1979 and a pair of revised machines for 1980. In 1981, he was recruited by the VDS team to design the body for their new Can-Am cars, which were mechanically Lola T530s under the skin.

The Cicale bodywork was in great demand and somehow bodies started appearing on all sorts of cars. Richard Guider fitted one to his March for 1980 and they later appeared on Chevrons and more modern Marches.

Cicale moved into CART in 1983 with Newman-Haas and won the title there in 1984 with Andretti. He has been in the title-winning team on four other occasions I believe.

Your chassis plate looks completely correct to me by the way. The plate on the "782-12" currently in UK historic racing is not original. (Of course I can't say whether your car is original or whether the other one isn't without a lot of extra work.)

Allen

We have time for the story of the car, for the moment we need some (color if possible) pictures of the car at the hands of Dougall or Needell in the Toleman team 78-79. Something like this? Rad Dougall at Thruxton 1979.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6114/dougallthrx79blray9.jpg

Copyright Stuart Dent 2006 (stuart [at] oldracingcars [dot] com).

Allen

John - am I allowed to add that we can also help with completing the restoration (http://www.oldracingcars.com/services/stickers/).

Isn't that 782 just a beauty!!

Thank you very much Allen,
you are very helpful for us.
If you have some other pictures of the rear and/or sides of the car. Are you sure that 782-12 was Dougall car on 78 and 79 ? Are just one bodywork or "evolutions bodyworks" in this period ?
For the moment the car is fitted with a Hart engine but originaly fitted with BMW M12 engine ?

Fabian

as i said earlier cars ran 78 with Bimmers but Henton had hart car he joined team mid seaosn with his own car
79 dougal ran hart then had ralt rt2

u need to buy siome historic race books
1 is F2 by tristan wood
i have spare copy to sell
1 book is italian f2 book rare and expensive
my copy cost me £110 and has bruno giacomelli`s autograph

then u need single seater vouturette racing copies are rare and £50-75 each

anything else to add Mr Brown:rofl:
at DP sat not fri or sun

Drifty - I see you've rearranged your DP visit to ensure you miss me. Clever!

Fabian - If you want to restore the car back to the form that Dougall won at Thruxton in 1979, then a Hart 420R is right. I'm not sure where you'd find Toleman's 1979 bodywork but if Drifty has a 1978 set you could have it with 1978 bodywork but in the livery and with the Hart engine from Thruxton. It's a bit of a compromise...

Drifty - I see you've rearranged your DP visit to ensure you miss me. Clever!
sorry not intenional f3 car in at exhaust shop - being made ready friday so must collect and other car from paint shop 1 round robin trip plus free bed friday night at DP awaits- i do have £3 in my pocket for yr beer:rofl: BH week after?

Toleman car in 79 had ground effect sidepods and 782 nose but it needed chisel nose to be effective with GE pods
hey life today is a compromise run the hart if its in the car cheaper easier to get the car racing
u sell hart buy bmw then fitting kit adaptor plate alter water oil lines new starter small rewire etc new exhaust system:p

For the engine, we have many M12 engine's also adaptor plates, ...
Just the bodywork. What's the bodywork style when the car was fitted with the Bmw engine ? Who was the driver at this time ?
My customer preffer the BMW so ....

Fabian

body was same hart or bmw difference is 1978 to 1979 mods

now u need to find fotos of any 782 cars in each year
1979 rad dougal raced 782#12 with hart that is why car has the engine fitted today

1978 rad dougal raced 782#2 and 12 cars with bmw
henton has #23 his own car but later runs in toleman livery with hart engine

i have the thruxton 1979 f2 race on dvd somewhere:cool:

So, we need to find some picture's of Dougall car 782-12 in 1978, in Toleman colors ....

Thanks,

Fabian

suggest u get autosports form 1978
most fotos will be black n white u may fnd the end of season survey has colour fotoss?
Next place to ask are the UK car book shops that also keep old fotos and then the UK library
Ferret fotography has mostly B &W fotos

Im sure 1 or 2 readers here will have their own fotos taken at the races
i will look in my Italian f2 book

Drifty - I see you've rearranged your DP visit to ensure you miss me. Clever!

Fabian - If you want to restore the car back to the form that Dougall won at Thruxton in 1979, then a Hart 420R is right. I'm not sure where you'd find Toleman's 1979 bodywork but if Drifty has a 1978 set you could have it with 1978 bodywork but in the livery and with the Hart engine from Thruxton. It's a bit of a compromise...

I'll see about scanning my colour slides from the Thruxton '79 race meeting.

I'll get in touch with you Fabian once I have done this.

:photo:

It is the first forum on which I goes but you all are really helpfull. thank you all for your assistance. A real research team !!!!! Fabian

Steve he seeks 78 spec car ideally
will be useful to see 79 spec body so i can check what i have for him

Drifty - I see you've rearranged your DP visit to ensure you miss me. Clever!
sorry not intenional f3 car in at exhaust shop - being made ready friday so must collect and other car from paint shop 1 round robin trip plus free bed friday night at DP awaits- i do have £3 in my pocket for yr beer:rofl: BH week after?

Toleman car in 79 had ground effect sidepods and 782 nose but it needed chisel nose to be effective with GE pods
hey life today is a compromise run the hart if its in the car cheaper easier to get the car racing
u sell hart buy bmw then fitting kit adaptor plate alter water oil lines new starter small rewire etc new exhaust system:p

I don't agree re 782 pods and GE, Drifty. As the Lawrence book says, I reckon Henton in a well-sorted 782 with pods would have won the F2 series that year. RT2s were a little unreliable early on, the 792s were c--p, so if they'd have persevered with 782, SuperHen would have won I reckon.

I fully realise Team was committed to the RT2s though, so in reality, it wouldn't have happened. Just my views !!

I follow F2 championship from 1978-79 :

1978
Truxton 27 march pos 3 clas 3 number 37
hockenheim 9 april pos 10 clas 10 number 37
nurburgring 30 april 26 did not finish (engine) number 37
hockenheim 9 april pos 10 clas 10 number 37
thruxton 27 march pos 3 clas 3 number 37
pau 15 may pos 30 clas dna number 37
mugello 28 may pos 12 clas 12 number 37
vallelunga 4 june pos 20 did not finish (accident) number 37
rouen 18 june pos 27 did not qualify number 37
donington 25 june pos 6 clas 6 number 37
nogaro 9 july pos 28 did not qualify number 37
persusa 23 july pos 16 did not finish (accident) number 37
santamonica rimini 6 august pos 20 did not finish (electrical) number 37
hockenheim 24 september pos 25 clas ??? number 37
san martin argentina 5 november pos 19 did not finish (loose wheel)nb12
buenos aires 11 november pos 16 did not finish (gear selector) nb 12

all this 78 races with a March 782 with BMW engine

From 1979, many changes :

silverstone 25 march Dougall drive a March-Hart number 15 did not finish
Henton drive a RT2-Hart
hockenheim 8 april dougal drive a March-Hart number 15 Henton drive a RT2-Hart
thruxton 16 april ???? March-Hart or RT2-Hart for Dougall number 15 Henton drive a Ralt-Hart
Nurburgring 29 april Dougall RT1-Hart ? number 36
Vallelunga 13 may Dougall drive a March-Hart number 15 Henton drive a March-Hart
Mugello 20 may Dougall drive a March-Hart number 15 Henton drive a March-Hart number 14
Pau 4 june Dougall drive a Ralt number 15 did not finish (accident).

For 79, our car 782-12 can be our car ?!

Fabian

The car in blue in the text can be our car !?
Sorry for the faults in the text.

Fabian

Dan if u look at 1979 Cheever in osella was at the front in many races and i think should have won
Surer won in the donkey 792 by default

Rad dougall had GE pods on 79 car but wide nose? i dont think it was flat floor car

Fabian 782#12 ran in some 78 races and some 79 races
Henton used ralt rt2 in most races but did run march at 1 poss 2 events
the GE cars where new and lessons where being learnt that year
1980 most designers had it sussed by then
also for 1979 toleman had works Hart deal as oppossed to a "customer" BMW deal in 78

Hello,

Have blasted through this thread, and have a headache. Where do you guys find the grey matter to store this much data?????:D

FWIW, I own a 78B (have for several years now), and if I remember will post the tub number tomorrow. It was one of Bill Brack's 2 78Bs he used that season (confirmed two years ago by Bill himself). Both cars wore STP sponsorship. The primary car is owned by Steve Hynes in the USA, and is actively historic raced. My car was the secondary car which saw a bit of use by Brack but also served as a rental to (wait for it).....Jacques Villenueve (the brother of Gilles) for one race. Also rented by a local driver of Asian ancestry for a support race in Long Beach.

My chassis went on to 2 litre can am form (Hart), known as the Photon. Post its racing career, it was found in a barn I'm guessing 5-6 years ago by the previous owner (without Photon body or Hart - damn) in an ugly state of disrepair.

I have restored the car, and occaisionally historic race it in Canada.

Cheers,
Bill Tebbutt
bill.tebbutt@nbfinancial.com

Bill we are all sad lonely people with no friends so plenty of room to store race car info
Interesting yr car was 1 of those can am march cars
allen brown will be delighted 2 can am marches in 1 week

Hopefully this posts. Circa 1985, at Mosport.


http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1985/Mosport-1985-09-15-0000.jpg

Drifty, I can recall the 79 F2 season very well, it was a big year for me in many ways!!

Cheever was generally quick all year, but his 3 wins (2 in the very wet) were due as much to the Pirellis he was on, as much as he or the car. I still think Henton could have got enough points early on to have withstood any challenge from the 792 as they got sorted later on.

The Toleman 782s were flat bottomed, with pods on, rather than full GE, more like the contemporary 79Bs.

And I have plenty of useless info in my grey matter !

Toleman also had pirelli advantage in 1980

Drifty, I can recall the 79 F2 season very well, it was a big year for me in many ways!!

I still think Henton could have got enough points early on to have withstood any challenge from the 792 as they got sorted later on.

Henton through it away at Donington when he spun out of the lead!

:photo:

A friend of me say dat Dougall as a accident in the "chicane" at Hockenheim, 4" lap, in 78 and that the car was folded. Can you confirm ?

Fabian

Bill

I know one of Bill Brack's 78Bs went to Jeremy Hill in 1980, while the other went to Bob McGregor of Vancouver, and I think he kept this, updated, until the mid 80s. [though he might have got a 79B instead in about 1982].

Which one was yours? Was the Asian driver Takao Wada [Japanese] who ran a Brack "79B" at Long Beach in 1980 because Villeneuve was injured. Was then meant to run a season with Shierson but the money fell through?

Chris

Hi, I bought the car 2 & ½ years ago from Barry Durham in the US who worked for Sasco Motorsport. He owned the cars for about eight years before which it had five other owners of no significance.

As far as I can tell the car was shipped to the US in 1979 straight form the factory where it competed in SCCA events almost every year until 2004 with some success. In fact Barry won the SCCA 70’s Monoposta Championship with it.

Barry then stripped the car in preparation for a total restoration. I bought in pieces and shipped it back to the UK in Feb 2005 since which it has under gone a nut and bolt rebuild and new Racing Fabrications BDA engine.

It has been suggested that the car had in fact gone to South Africa form the factory before going to the US and had been raced by Ian Scheckter, but I have no evidence of this, nor does it fit with the history I have of the car.

There was also a March 78B there driven by Daryl Taylor. Unfortunately, I din't have time to engage either Taylor or the Meyricks in conversation but did get some pictures.

Allen
Hi, I bought the car 2 & ½ years ago from Barry Durham in the US who worked for Sasco Motorsport. He owned the cars for about eight years before which it had five other owners of no significance.

As far as I can tell the car was shipped to the US in 1979 straight form the factory where it competed in SCCA events almost every year until 2004 with some success. In fact Barry won the SCCA 70’s Monoposta Championship with it.

Barry then stripped the car in preparation for a total restoration. I bought in pieces and shipped it back to the UK in Feb 2005 since which it has under gone a nut and bolt rebuild and new Racing Fabrications BDA engine.

It has been suggested that the car had in fact gone to South Africa form the factory before going to the US and had been raced by Ian Scheckter, but I have no evidence of this, nor does it fit with the history I have of the car.

Hi Daryl

Welcome - and thanks for the history.

Do you have an ownership history on the car? Do you have the SCCA logbook?

Allen

Welcome to the forum Daryl,

The ex Ian Scheckter 78B is said to still be in South Africa and was certainly still being used there by Clive Cooke in summer 1979, so it sounds a bit unlikely from what you are saying about the car.

Not many 78Bs went straight into SCCA [aside from Jerry Hansen's]
I'd be surprised if yours didn't have a 1978 pro history prior to SCCA, and perhaps an interesting one.
Can you tell us who the first logged owner was?

Chris

Chris,

Sorry for the delay. My car was Brack's spare, went to Hill, became the 2 litre can am car pictured earlier. Your info on the Long Beach driver is likely correct - I had not been able to confirm hhis name before.

Thanks
Bill Tebbutt

Bill

Many thanks for the confirmation of the car; do you have a contact for Steve Hynes, so that we could get the parallel history of the Brack cars lined up?

Chris

Chris,
The ex Ian Scheckter 78B was completely destroyed in a trailer fire in 1980 whilst in the ownership of DAW/Bernard Tilanus.
Regards
Ian

Westwood appears from mid 80 to mid 81 in what is usually described as a 78B, and in the photos I've seen is usually nicely prepared.
If it was ex Crompton then I think it has to be chassis 782-10, the ex Cramer car as, if my memory is right, Crompton is still using 782-5 in 1980 and that car eventually goes to Keith Cox in 1983. When does Crompton give up on his 782 in 1980? I think Westwood's car is sold to Martin Mansell mid 1981, on the basis of that car's paint scheme.

Chris

There's a good pic of the 1981 Mansell car on the other place, the '1982 British F1 thread'. Taken at the August Banky Brands meet, the car is nicely turned out, and looks like a real 782/78B, rather than a modded 782/79B. Does this rule it out as being the Cramer car 782-10, as IIRC that was extensively updated thru' 79-80?

Could the Mansell car have been the Kirby/Bain one, -14??

I will ask Martin mansell when i next see him at the races today he races Clubmans cars
who is at BH this weekend bring wellies unbrella and hip flask!

Yes, I'll be there. I've just emailed you my mobile number.

Anyone else?

We don't seem to have mentioned the 79B driven by George Franchitti in 1980. Anyone know which one it was? I'm posting here because most UK 79Bs seem to have been 782s modded.

dario`s father or uncle

We don't seem to have mentioned the 79B driven by George Franchitti in 1980. Anyone know which one it was? I'm posting here because most UK 79Bs seem to have been 782s modded.

Agreed Allen, I don't think any real 79B has ever raced in the UK.

Could the Franchitti car could have been Jim Stevenson's 782-26, Jim had that one after Adrian Russell, in 1980 and used it in Northen Libre only I think. Its possible he lent it to George F. I can't think of any other 782s up north at that time, or at least circuit racers. Would it have been the Andy B car as an alternative??

My money would be on Franchitti having the Barton car.
Whilst AB uses his 79B [based on 782-13] at the start of the 1980 season it doesn't appear after the first few races and tellingly at Ingliston, there is Franchitti alongside Cameron Binnie in the Barton 77B.
What's the first recorded use of Franchitti with his car?

chris

look here this is the car u refer to its also been the basis of another thorny thread discussion
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/march/1129146138/1129146138ss.htm

Wow, what a mess that 782 is ! 782-26s early history is well known, South then Russell then Jim Stevenson, 1978-79-80 respectively. After that into the Climber/Sprinter scene?? It never looked like that though, that nose looks like its from a Surtees TS20...

My money would be on Franchitti having the Barton car.
Whilst AB uses his 79B [based on 782-13] at the start of the 1980 season it doesn't appear after the first few races and tellingly at Ingliston, there is Franchitti alongside Cameron Binnie in the Barton 77B.
What's the first recorded use of Franchitti with his car?

chris

Andy B kept his car at least 'til late 1981, though by then it had been well modded, with pods/nose looking like those of a 792.

i reckon car was shunted rebuilt with any parts around and made into the 79b referred to earlier a la 772P cum 783/2 of Kim!??

Stevenson last raced 782-26 at Ingliston May 1980 after which it vanishes. Odd that it's so abrupt, so early in the season and when Stevenson had been going well in it.

I have a number for Stevenson and should soon know what happened to it next.

Anyone see the Jeremy Smith 782 at the Gold Cup last week? Good pic of it on the 'other place', it lloks like a genuine car.

car 20 or 28? bob salisbury car
what is the other place to see foto
ok i know DOH !! but i cant know everything i need to leave something for the others!

maybe a bit off topic here !!
I am trying to locate a March based Renault 5 special saloon,
built + raced by Jim McGaughay , last known owner was the late Roy Gibson
Can anyone help ??

Anyone see the Jeremy Smith 782 at the Gold Cup last week? Good pic of it on the 'other place', it lloks like a genuine car.

According to Motorsport News this week the Jeremy Smith 782 is the ex-Bernard de Dryver 782-10 which was "last used in hillclimbing".

So is this actually the 772-10 that David Franklin used and upgraded to 782 spec? This car was then sold onto firstly Alan Richards, then John Meredith and then Rodney Eyles. Not sure what happened to it after that?

:cool:

Didn't we think 782-10 was the Cramer climbing car? The one he used in 79, then winning the Hilcclimb champ in 1980, when it was heavily modded.

The last summary I could find said: Based on Adam Ferrington's copy of build records; F1R; various observations and press notes:

782-10: Bob Salisbury: Bernard de Dryver; 1979: Douglas & Gavin for Chris CramerThen Cramer's 782/79B in 1980 (says Mason p304). Then Jimmy Jack for 1981 (Mason p310). Then I found this:

An update:

782-10: Salisbury: Bob Salisbury [TNF-AF]; Bernard de Dryver [Easter 78 Thruxton: de Dryver] ; Chris Cramer 1979 [AF] and 1980 (British champion); James Jack 1981 [AF,Mason], unused 1982, Sprints 1983, advertised Feb 1984 ... Germany ... 'znarfg' 2004.

Jack advertised the car in Autosport 2 Feb 1984 noting that it was the 1980 championship car (so definitely Cramer's), Scottish hillclimbs 1981, unused 1982 and sprints 1983.

So who was 'znarfg' anyway?

Aha! Mason p361 (the book's addictive!) mentions "Billy Morris 2.0 March 78/79B" at Prescott in 1986. The car was "Chris Cramer's old Championship chassis".

We had this car as the ex-Franklin 782-9, not the ex-Cramer 782-10.

Where does this fit in? Mason p373 (now up to 1987) - "former Mallock U2 pilot Bill Wood" in a 2.0 March 782 in Scottish events.

EDIT: this is the Edinburgh Bill Wood, not the Sherif Hutton farmer.

Prescott Sep 1988 (p384) - Chris Cramer's son Marc has a serious accident in a March 782. I think I need Steve's help putting all this back together or I just need to stop reading this book and do some work!

Where does this fit in? Mason p373 (now up to 1987) - "former Mallock U2 pilot Bill Wood" in a 2.0 March 782 in Scottish events.

For once Chris Mason was slightly off the boil with this one. The following came from Tony Wood (Bill's son):

Dad bought the March 782 BDG from Billy MacMillan from Darval in Ayrshire at the end of 1986. He was Scottish Sprint Champion in 1986 and Dad bought the car off him before the end of the season after he had won the Championship.

The car originally started life as a 783 but was transformed prior to Billy MacMillan buying it. We ran it with a 2.0 alloy blocked BDG on carbs with a Hewland FT200.

Hope that solves that one! :cool:

Prescott Sep 1988 (p384) - Chris Cramer's son Marc has a serious accident in a March 782. I think I need Steve's help putting all this back together or I just need to stop reading this book and do some work!

Marc had several accidents in a March 782 before going back to the circuits.

:relax:

But which one did he have?

But which one did he have?

I'll make a note and get back to you as I am a tad busy at the moment getting ready for Aintree this Saturday!

:faint:

The chassis plate on the Smith car at Oulton Park definately reads 782-10.

I think we have:

782-10: Salisbury: Bob Salisbury [TNF-AF] for Bernard de Dryver [AS]; Chris Cramer 1979-1980 [AF,Mason]; James Jack 1981-1984 [AF,Mason] ... Bill Morris 1986 [Mason] ... Germany ... 'znarfg' 2004 ... Jeremy Smith 2007

The Morris bit could be wrong - that might be 782-9.

I remember talking to Bill years ago about the ex-Aurora F1 March 781, then just a pile of bits, and I noted at that time that he had a crashed 782 that could have been used to rebuild the 781. My notes are dated March 1986 which is just before he is noted by Mason as having the car at Prescott.

Allen

Allen Brown u should be ashamed of yourself
I have told you many times that 782-9 is the ex winklehock works car used by Franklin sold to Bill Morris always toute das ex Jack o Malley car but never was now restored via me in usa i have even sent u the fotos of the car directly
The Mason book is obviously flawed on some points can i suggest you stop reading it before it fries your brains!!
the Bill Woods 782 BDG is is the car we discussed a few weeks ago ex F3 car then to Mr C Drewiit & last seen on a recovery truck at Oulton Park 2 weeks ago ( see Motoring news)

ZFRNG escapes me at present who he is but ive spoken direct to him on a car dont ask me when or what ive slept since then

Hmm, let me think, who should I trust? The admired journalist who has followed the sport for year and published a widely respected book or ... no, I shouldn't ... it would be beneath me.

I am ashamed of myself. For so many reasons. But this isn't one of them.

I think we have:

782-10: Salisbury: Bob Salisbury [TNF-AF] for Bernard de Dryver [AS]; Chris Cramer 1979-1980 [AF,Mason]; James Jack 1981-1984 [AF,Mason] ... Bill Morris 1986 [Mason] ... Germany ... 'znarfg' 2004 ... Jeremy Smith 2007

The Morris bit could be wrong - that might be 782-9.

I remember talking to Bill years ago about the ex-Aurora F1 March 781, then just a pile of bits, and I noted at that time that he had a crashed 782 that could have been used to rebuild the 781. My notes are dated March 1986 which is just before he is noted by Mason as having the car at Prescott.

Allen
Which 781, Allen? The Musetti one I assume, or the Gerd Bichtelier car?

Yes, the Musetti one.

BTW, Steve has kindly dug through his pictures and found one of Morris in his March 782 wearing Franklin's bodywork. So Mason was wrong and Drifty was rr ... rrr ... no, I just can't say it.

Slightly O/T, it looks like 8 782s came back to the UK 'National' scene in 1979 Russell in AFX, Cramer/Crompton/Franklin climbing, plus Barton/Smith/Dowsett/Kirby in FAt. Is this a modern day record??

Hello all,
782-10 is still in my garage. I purchased the car directly from Chris Cramer with original chassis-plate and race documentation.
regards

Go on allen please say it make an old man happy !!!
did musetti shunt 1 of the 781 cars
smith 782 car i think is chassis 20/ 28? i need to check

Jeremy Smith.... or... Paul Smith??????

jeremy dont start that paul smith saga again
his car is a late chassi number its a Bob salisbury car 20 0r 28
i cant get onto mst oulton park gold cup results to see the chassis# he had it listed

Did anyone bother to read my last post...... The chassis plate on the Jeremy Smith car at Oulton Park read 782-10!! MST website also has it down as 782-10 and you will note from that site he qualified it on pole in DBT!! Great effort first time out.

Hello all,
782-10 is still in my garage. I purchased the car directly from Chris Cramer with original chassis-plate and race documentation.
regardsThanks znarfg. So are you Jeremy Smith or do we have two cars called 782-10 now?

Could you tell us what happened to your car after James Jack advertised it in 1984? How much of the gap between 1984 and 2004 are you able to fill?

Thanks

Allen

More info from HSCC news which has just been issued. Quoted as being ex Bernard de Dryver and last used in hillclimbing in early 80's?

Sorry above post refers to 782-10 to avoid confusion.

That history is fine for 782-10. But I'm still not sure if we have two 782-10s, znarfg's and Jeremy Smith's, or whether znarfg is Jeremy Smith or whether Jeremy Smithy had hired znarfg's 782.

782-10 was the car tested at shelsley walsh hillclimb ,along with a couple of other cars by Derek Bell for Car&Car Conversions.It was owned I think by Douglas & Gavin.

Allen it definately wasn't hired as Anthony Smith states in the article he restored it and Jeremy Smith is his son who drove it. Has been rebuilding it for last 8 months.

So is 'znarfg' Anthony Smith?

No he is not Smith he is german Franz
post form 2004Hi Dan,
the car was sold from chris c. to the new owner in Germany. The new owner never drove the car. Chris C. has had a accident, due that accident the bodywork was destroyed and the car has got a new cassis. The son of Chris C. drove the car later, without the sidepods and with a 2 liter Hart 420 R. Now I have make a new origial 782 bodywork. Next year I will go with the european f 2 club (www.europeanf2.com)
Not bad my English!???
Franz

So if there are 2 chassis 10s does that make one chassis 20? (sorry)

So if there are 2 chassis 10s does that make one chassis 20? (sorry)

Or a chassis ZERO? :faint:

Hi all,
Here a little more information about 782-10 (extract from al letter form Chris Camer)

1. Origin Bob Salisbury how has 2 Cars in 1978
2. Godfry Crompton purchased the car in 1978 and change the engine to Hart
3. 1979 hillclimb Driver Chris Cramer - 1th overall national Gyson/BARC

Hi znarfg

But you didn't answer the big question here - is your car the same one that
Jeremy Smith is racing or is it a different one?

Allen

sorry I wasn't finished
3. 1979 2nd British RAC Hilclimp Championship - Chris Cramer
4. 1980 conversion to a Hewland FG 400 with big dirveshafts
Outright winner Britisch Hillclimb Championship many Cours records
5. Car sold to Jimmy Jack
Driven by Bill Morris and Marc Cramer, a son of Chris, who established a litre single seater course record at Shelsley Walsh
6. 1986 after a very nasty accident of Chris at Loton Park the car was rebuild with a new chassis by Lyncar

For 1987 and 1988 I've no confirmed results

7. The car was sold from Chris Cramer to Wolfgang Bode in Germay. Wolfgang start the restauration but ditn't finished.
8. I purchased the car from Wofgang Bode in 2004 with Hart engine.

Hi Allen,
My car is still in restauration. Jeremy Smith has a other car.
Franz

Thanks Franz

sorry I wasn't finished
3. 1979 2nd British RAC Hilclimp Championship - Chris Cramer
4. 1980 conversion to a Hewland FG 400 with big dirveshafts
Outright winner Britisch Hillclimb Championship many Cours records
5. Car sold to Jimmy Jack
Driven by Bill Morris and Marc Cramer, a son of Chris, who established a litre single seater course record at Shelsley Walsh
6. 1986 after a very nasty accident of Chris at Loton Park the car was rebuild with a new chassis by Lyncar

For 1987 and 1988 I've no confirmed results

7. The car was sold from Chris Cramer to Wolfgang Bode in Germay. Wolfgang start the restauration but ditn't finished.
8. I purchased the car from Wofgang Bode in 2004 with Hart engine.



Is this (http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p3867691.html)your car Franz?

1980 and the need for the bigger driveshafts is clear!

Hi Nordic,
yes it's my car.
Franz

Chris T (post #108) Bain appears with a 78B at Thruxton at the end of 1981. Charlie Kirby is in the same race with his ex Cheever 782 conversion, so it can't be that. It could, however, be Martin Mansell's 78B, which goes missing at that point.
I saw Martin Mansell at the weekend and asked him about his car-he said car was a made up from parts and he owned in conjunction with Duncan bain-we where interupted mid way I will get more info later cos i have somink he wants

I spoke to Duncan Bain recently about that car and it was definitely an entity before they had it. They had to have it converted from 782 to Atlantic spec so I suspect they had a dismantled F2 car.

Ask Martin where he sold it to.

will do we where interrupted at that crucial point!!!

I have spoken to Martin Mansell again and had a longer and detailed story on his 782 car

He said he essentially bought many March 782 pieces from a man with plenty of ££ in the Midlands ( Im guessing Birmingham area more later) who was a hillclimber and this man had many March parts.
He found the man from an advert ( I assume AS advert) and agreed to buy 1 tub and all the parts but never took delivery of it at the time as he never had all the ££ to give to the man
A short while later Martin was ready with the final ££ he was told by the hillclimber that the tub was not there ( he thinks the man was hillclimbing same type of car and maybe dinged his car and used the tub) and 1 would be ready later
Eventually he had all the parts and an ex March employee assembled the car in FA engine format

Martin said he is adamant the tub had a plate but no idea what it was

He was mates with Duncan Bain who went into the car 5050 with him and they ran the car a few races at the end of the year Duncan bought the remaining 50% share of the March ( Martin preferred front engines clubman type cars) and raced it the following season in FA events
No idea who had it after Duncan im sure 1 of you guys will know
Apparently Ian Flux drove the car once at Brands and broke the FA lap record ( does this ring any bells?)
Now this Midlands man I have heard of before from Ray Rowan and he said this man had heaps of March parts and im sure he was a man with a garage business- I am waiting to speak to Ray for more info
Now Martin said the man also had a crash in his Ferrari on the road and was "injured" as he recalls a scar on his face/head
Any of this ring any bells?

I keep great notes and have a remarkable memory. Remarkable in that I can't remember where I left my car keys but I can remember cr@p like this:

In 1983, Bill Boddice (Garages) Ltd, of Wolverhampton, West Midlands, bought all the surplus stock from the March factory and also the stock of Douglas & Gavin. (Autosport 11 Aug 1983 p71)

But this is too late for Mansells car isn't it? He must mean Douglas & Gavin who were also Midlands-based.

You are on the right lines that I was hunting for!! Did you find the car keys?
I've just spoken to my mate, Raymond, who said John Lowe (Volvo dealer) bought Compton's pile of parts. However, I think it could be Compton himself who Martin dealt with?? He can't recall names. I will run these guys names past him in a few weeks time, so does anyone have a note of the Duncan Bain 78B car he raced then??

yr on the right lines i was hunting for !! did u find the car keys?
just spoke to my mate raymond who said John Lowe ( volvo dealer) bought Comptons pile of parts
however i think it could be Compton himself Martin dealt with?? he cant recall names
I will run these guys names past him in a few weeks time
so does anyone have a note of the Duncan Bain 78B car he raced then??

Godfrey Compton did have strong ties to March as he bought up bits on a regular basis, until he switched to Tolemans!

:relax:

yes that what Raymond said ( with a big grin on his face!!!) however does the ferrari road car crash /scar on face head ring any bells??

As an aside, Bill Boddice Garges ran a 763 and 773 in Monoposto in about 1982 with Volvo engines! Bill himself in one, can't recall the other driver now.

I don't remember, and can't believe, Fluxie breaking the FA lap record at Brands in a 782/78B, however quick he was. I think we're talking end of 81/early 82 are we for Mansell/Bain in FA Marches? Are you saying DW that the Mansell car was a bitza, rather than a pre-used one?

iDan
I am only reporting what the man said not passing comment or jumping to conclusions !!
if someone was train spotting FA car races and dig up a chassis number then we move 1 step forward or if someon knows who Duncan Bain sold his 78b car to we can work things out a bit better

iDan
I am only reporting what the man said not passing comment or jumping to conclusions !!
if someone was train spotting FA car races and dig up a chassis number then we move 1 step forward or if someon knows who Duncan Bain sold his 78b car to we can work things out a bit better

Have you spoken to Duncan any more on this one Drifty?

Seeing the 81 Atlantic season on ORC (brilliant work Allen/Chris!) has reminded me. Also anyone know anymore on the Macolm Hull March that appeared a few times that year.

When I met Kim M a week or so ago, he said his intention for 1981 was to get an RT4 and have a good go at Atlantic that year. However, Aycliffe preferred to get something that could also be used in a few F2 races, hence the 792... Shame he didn't get the Ralt, he could've given Ray M a run for his money I reckon.

Dan not spoken with Duncan Bain i was talking to Martin Mansell who had the car with Duncan
i do recall seeing AS advert for DB selling the car it would be good to talk with him see who took the car

Interesting to see 782-6 up for sale? The vendor is on here now I believe! OTOH I can't recall where it went after Hoban in 1984-85? Climbing ??

782/6 was used in malta for drag race only and just made about 8 hill climbs sins the engine was over hold

I am trying to put some of my car photos can some one tell me how pls

See here:-

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_faq_post_pic

I Am Trying To Put Some Of My March 782/6 Bat Cant If Some One Like To See Them Jast Sand Me A Email

http://C:\Documents and Settings\Hubert\My Documents\My Pictures\1795016443_79914de724.jpg

http://C:\Documents and Settings\Hubert\My Documents\My Pictures\MP Navigator\2007_10_03\DSC00871.JPG

Hubert

Try uploading your image at this site (http://www.imageshack.us/) and then copy the "Thumbnail for forums (1)" text back here into your post.

Allen

<IMG id=previewimage title=Preview alt=Preview> (http://www.imageshack.us/)
Get Links (http://www.imageshack.us/)
thanks allan

Seeing as I posted a 782 picture on the wrong thread this should make up for it!

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v217/125/90/826713559/n826713559_395466_7309.jpg

Jean-Pierre Jarier at Thruxton Easter Monday 1978

:photo:

well done !
782#16 now raced by sean walker in historic f2

On another thread the name 'Neil Fletcher Racing' has just cropped-up. It rang a bell with me re the 1981 Malcolm Hull 782/792 FAt car. Unfortunately, it was a red herring.

I don't think we've ever found anything out about this car/team/driver, who entered at least 2 races that year, early on at Mallory, mid-season at Donny. This is surprising, as a number of posters (but not me I regret!) were well into looking at chassis histories by this time.

No-one remember anything about the car, apparently they were Mountsorrel/Leicester based??

Hi all,think this could be the best place to start!.Anyhow,yesterday I was getting my car MOT'd in Scotland and the Garage owner asked me about a March,possibly a 782? not 100% sure though.Seems he'd been asked by a friend who'd been contacted by the new owner in England.The new owner thinks that his March was bought from Norrie Galbraith days before his tragic death,early September 1982.Now I used to help out for Norrie as "team goffer and car washer" well I was only twelve back then.The car in question was'nt the car that he was killed in but another picked up from a garage in Edinburgh whch might have been owned previously by a John Bothamley???.When the car was picked up Norrie had another person with him possibly a mechanic? I've asked everyone involved with Norrie that I can remember but have come up blank so far.
So does anybody know of this car?,sorry I've no other names or info available.Thanks Stevie Mason,Lanark.

Bothamly had march 792 to make his Maguire esprit i believe that chassi was uses to build 782/20 car thats a long story already discussed on another thread- that car is now being rebuilt with 782 chassis now
send me a PM and get some fotos then we can ID the car

I may be the source of those questions about the 792 that Galbraith owned. I was asking all sorts of people in Scotland trying to find someone who knew where it had come from. It's possible that the 782 plate was later attached to the 792 and it ended up in Belgium.

Stevie - does anyone know what happened to the 792 after Norrie died?

Allen

what about Max Mamers with March 782 in 1978 hillclimbs ?? see http://www.euromontagna.com/makes.php?lng=1&make=March&type=782

what about Max Mamers with March 782 in 1978 hillclimbs ?? see http://www.euromontagna.com/makes.php?lng=1&make=March&type=782

Three 782s sold via Maublanc in France: 11; 16; 17
16 was used by Jarier in F2 Maublanc team car and then PERHAPS the car sold to Pignard for 1979 [which Echappement says was Jarier's Temporada car, but that might not have been the same car as he used in the regular season]
Maybe other two cars went to Mamers and Gerard Pillon who also has new 782

I like your website

Chris

roman you can add to david franklin march 782# 9
marcus hotz march 812 im sure is '8 anyway its a known car i have the data somwhere or ask martin interserie HSB audi car later

Great website Roman!!

I've been doing French hillclimbs slowly but surely - we should swap results.

i spent 45 mins looking throgh the various makes and some driver names
i can tell you some lola t290 chassis numbers but martin can tell you lots of that info anyway

Sorry to go back to the start but...

Does anyone know who claims to own the three "works" cars #7,8 or 9? I was at Watkins Glen last weekend and there was one racing there presented as the Surer car which was surprising to me - but it has been in long term ownership and Surer drove the car a couple of years ago etc etc

the car u saw i expect was gordon medincas car run by Lee chapman racing
car came from vasek polak collection a few yrs ago
the chassis number is 22
it is not a surer car but i think he drove it in the last f2 race of 78 in south america hence why its got that label!

winklehock car 9 is in private collection in usa in full works livery i have the fotos i took of it before it went west!

john i believe yr now living in usa
did u take the toj with u?

Thanks for the info. I suspect it is his car as suggested. Pretty and quick.

I am indeed over here and the Toj still resides in the UK having its engine fettled.