Red Bull and Renault deal close. (Merged)

F1Racing.net says:

Renault F1 team boss Flavio Briatore has admitted the French engine manufacturer is close to sign a deal with Red Bull. Renault would supply one of the two Red Bull-owned F1 teams with customer engines next season.

"We are in negotiations but it's not done yet -- done meaning when you sign the deal," Briatore told Reuters. "But we are working to finalise it this week and supply the engine to Red Bull."

Full article: http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=129759

Near as damn it,sorted.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=129759

That's uncanny! Merge please.:)

Merged :)

Very good news for Red Bull (or Toro Rosso). The Renault engine is the best all round engine package alongside the Ferrari and Toyota.

Hopefully they won't be Monza engines though. ;)

I wonder if Red Bull will continue to run the Ferrari, and Toro Rosso will get the Renault or vice versa? Or are they terminating their association with Ferrari?

Red Bull have been looking to terminate their contract with Ferrari, so I'd assume that is the plan.

But I would not be surprised if these ended up in the Toro Rosso cars.

Let's hope that they put the right engine in the right car.

RedBull weren't happy with their units.Apparently they were short of revs compared with Ferrari's!

I don't suppose the installation problems they had with the units helped matters either!

I don't suppose the installation problems they had with the units helped matters either!

Apparently they're much faster when driven in reverse.;)

:laugh:

From what I hear it will be

RED BULL/RENAULT
TORRO ROSSO/FERRARI

Hopefully this will happen with both MW & DC IN Renault power. Interesting that MW could be driving a Renault power that is run by his manager, funny things have happend in F1

Renault confirm a two year deal with parent company Red Bull, which team they will supply remains to be seen:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37369

Looks like it's far from having it settled... Ferrari won't be very happy with that.

I have read somewhere that Ferrari's contract is with the Red Bull parent company and not Red Bull F1 so there maybe Ferrari cannot object too much. Also with the rumours of a Spyker-Ferrari tie up it may be in everyone's interests to see the Red Bull Ferrari supply being stopped with Toro Rosso perhaps using Cosworth V8s.

Red Bull has not yet informed Renault whether the engine contract will be assigned to Red Bull Racing or its 'B' outfit Scuderia Toro Rosso.

Its preferred option would be for the main squad to use Renault engines with Toro Rosso taking over the Ferrari contract, which has one year left to run.


Yeah, maybe.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/index.php

the deal is done with red bull itself so it is up to them where they put the engine i hope it is with RBR.Renault+Webber + Coulthard + Newey = Winning IMO!

Logic says it should be RBR as its likley to be a stronger (ie unrestricted) unit and RBR is the premier Red bull team. Toro Rosso is also obviously Italian bases which should be an advantage to both TR and Ferrari.

At the end of the day though it could go either way

RBR will have it.I tell you though, RBR and STR will be strong next year with Renault AND Ferrari powerplants at their disposal.

I wonder if they can design the chassis to accomdate either of the engines, therefore allowing them to swap engines to suit circuits?

Jean Todt is reportedly insisting that RBR use the Ferrari engine, and that STR use the Renault engine.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17458.html

The contracts wouldnt allow it for a start, but they could do it. It would just mean the aero would suffer as a result.

Jean Todt is reportedly insisting that RBR use the Ferrari engine, and that STR use the Renault engine.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17458.html

From that article:

Ferrari boss Jean Todt is saying "Non" (as usual) because he does not want to face direct opposition from a Red Bull-Renault that has been designed by Adrian Newey. The engines might thus end up with Scuderia Toro Rosso which will be less of a worry to Ferrari because the team still has a long way to go before it will be running with the fast men

If thats true, it either doesnt speak volumes for Todt's opinion of the Ferrari engine vs the Renault, or it indicates they will detune the engines further as RBR go further up the grid.

By most accounts the Renault is indeed less powerful than the Ferrari, but better packaged. If Ferrari are going to face direct competition from RBR-Renault, theyre just as likely to with RBR-Ferrari as well.

So why not just shift Webber/Coulthard to the Toro Rosso team?

From that article:



If thats true, it either doesnt speak volumes for Todt's opinion of the Ferrari engine vs the Renault, or it indicates they will detune the engines further as RBR go further up the grid.

By most accounts the Renault is indeed less powerful than the Ferrari, but better packaged. If Ferrari are going to face direct competition from RBR-Renault, theyre just as likely to with RBR-Ferrari as well.
Surely one day (season 2008 and 09) they expect that they will comprehensively lose the championship to RBR just as SBR lose the championship to Triple 8. And they will take it in their stride, in the name of the honest humble glorious sporting spirit, they will enjoy it and be over the moon indeed. If not, then Ferrari ARE very arrogant disgraceful buggers indeed.

Red Bull clearly haven't got the potential out of the RB2, if STR continue with it and the Ferraris next year, and do a rework over the Southern Hemisphere winter there may well be another second or two in the car. That would make good sense.

And Newey can design for the favourably Renault cooling layout.

Surely one day (season 2008 and 09) they expect that they will comprehensively lose the championship to RBR just as SBR lose the championship to Triple 8. And they will take it in their stride, in the name of the honest humble glorious sporting spirit, they will enjoy it and be over the moon indeed.
I should have appreciated your humour from your handle, quite the funniest thing I have read for a long time :rofl:

Triple 8 havent won anything yet either, but you are right in that Stone Brothers do seem to be producing a hell of a block for 888, Cant wait for Bathurst 9 hours in front of the telly....

RBR and Renault engines - interesting, would like to see that - but as Bon says, really looks far from being done at the moment....

Red Bull clearly haven't got the potential out of the RB2, if STR continue with it and the Ferraris next year, and do a rework over the Southern Hemisphere winter there may well be another second or two in the car. That would make good sense.

And Newey can design for the favourably Renault cooling layout.

RB have already said the STR2 will be bespoke, and they wouldnt be able to race the RB2 anyway like they did the R6/RBR1

well if both engine deals are with red bull the company not RBR or STR i dont think todt has to much of a say in where those lower rev power plants go and i cant see red bull giving STR the better power plant and and giving RBR the crap power plant.

Its not a matter of one is good and one is crap, theyre both top 3 engines on the grid.

Its not a matter of one is good and one is crap, theyre both top 3 engines on the grid.

The packaging is apparently better on the Renault than it is on the Ferrari engine.Not something of great importance for STR,but might be the difference between winning and losing for RBR.

Its not a matter of one is good and one is crap, theyre both top 3 engines on the grid.

well if its true that ferrari are giving RBR engines that rev less than the ones the factory team are running well then you are going to take the renault anyday.but who's to say renault arnt going to do the same thing ???

I should have appreciated your humour from your handle, quite the funniest thing I have read for a long time :rofl:
Well Red Bull wouldn't have signed up Newey if they didn't intend to win stuff. And Ferrari goes into this Red Bull supply gambit full in the knowledge that Red Bull intend to beat Ferrari comprehensively. On the track in 2007, Red Bull is only some chance to produce even a consistent points scoring car of course. But they do fully intend to win obviously, even if their old drivers are holding them back to tune of 1 sec a lap! ;)

The packaging is apparently better on the Renault than it is on the Ferrari engine.Not something of great importance for STR,but might be the difference between winning and losing for RBR.

It obviously means something for RBR as thats the engine Newey wants, but if Todt finds a reason for RBR to stick with their engines, Matesitch is unlikely to be throwing money at Ferrari to change their minds. They'll turn around and accept that theyre stuck with a top 3 engine rather than another top 3 engine. Whoop-de-friggen-do.

If they dealing with someone like Honda though then they would be, as that engine is said to be down on revs and power fairly significantly.

Maybe the Red Bull Team have been getting a Motor package off Ferrari that has less rev's to prevent them going bang and lasting a bit longer? Ferrari wouldn't mind running the risk it is their own expence but maybe Rull Bull wanted a motor to last.

Who really knows but the teams I suppose.

As for the SBR making better motors for 888 then themselves the person that wrote that might want to look at how that engine deal happens.
The motor Craig use's one week might be the one that James courtney use's the next week. You have to also keep in mind that 888 have people working in the SBR engine shop and the 888 machinist make gear to go on any one of these motors just as much as the SBR guys.

RedBull were/are supplied with units that were/are 300 rpm short of Ferraris' own.What's the point of having them? How much would you have to spend on other performance related items to cover that deficit?

RedBull were/are supplied with units that were/are 300 rpm short of Ferraris' own.What's the point of having them? How much would you have to spend on other performance related items to cover that deficit?


I don't see the point either? I was not aware of this..

I didn't know that and I'd be interested to see a source.

However it may be due to the differences in installation in the Red Bull. It struggled with overheating at the beginning of the year (this may also be a reason behind the straight line speed problem). Perhaps they need it to be? This is a complete guess, but it only really served as an indication that things aren't always that simple. Maybe they just have a contract which to guarantee a certain level of reliability errs on the side of caution?

As for the SBR making better motors for 888 then themselves the person that wrote that might want to look at how that engine deal happens.
The motor Craig use's one week might be the one that James courtney use's the next week. You have to also keep in mind that 888 have people working in the SBR engine shop and the 888 machinist make gear to go on any one of these motors just as much as the SBR guys.
I dont think that webberforwdc (sorry, that still makes me laugh) was saying that SBR are producing better engines for T8, just that they were producing exactly the same engines with no restrictions, so that T8 could race with them on an equal footing, you know the way that renault used to and ferrari never will.

RBR say that their engine is rev limited and from all of the advanced acoustics the teams have they would know one way or another.

I've always maintained that information should be sufficiently backed up, and i'm curious to know where the source of Ferrari sourcing an inferior engine to RedBull, and also where the 300 rpm figure came from. If it's convincing, i'd buy the theory, but right now it's nothing but poor speculation.

As far as i'm aware, even Ferrari doesn't rev their own engines to peak revs except on rare occasions. So i'd be keen to find out more on how the deficit of 300rpm is seperating causing much issue to RBR.

Last i'm aware, Red Bull failed to package the car to suit the engine sufficiently, and hence had to make compromises to the bodywork to adapt. And given Renault's new spec engines (which RBR would be technically using next year, or in 2008) has blown up 3 times (once in Monza, twice in Jerez testing), RBR must be hoping that the problem is solved...fast.

I should have appreciated your humour from your handle, quite the funniest thing I have read for a long time :rofl:

It was 100% realistic when Williams won the Brazillian GP 2004 mind you! That's the last round of the season, positioned to lead into technical excellence in season 2005.

If BMW had made an actual 2005 developed engine for the following season, instead of a patched up 2004 one to give them a Sauber exit that gave them no chance at all, than Williams would have been substancially more competitive even with their lack of downforce, house like levels of drag, pogo like suspension and total technical collapse for a third of the season.