Group A Toyota Corolla History (merged)

I am restoring 2 Gp Corolla AE86 models. Both have well known history here in Australia, with 1 also racing at Spa & Nurburgring. I have accumulated some other Toyota /TRD/TOMS parts for other Toyotas of the 1980's. Anybody out there interested??? I'd also be interested in corresponding with anyone else with GpA Toyotas and knowing of any that might be available for sale, especially the later Supra.

Just out of curiosity are the Corolla's the later FX model that were raced by the likes of Don Smith or Phil dowsett in England, or are they the 'coupe' version?

If they are the latter, are these cars that Chris Hodgetts originally built and sold to Andrew Bagnall before he went onto pedal Sierra's?

chunterer, I think they're the model that preceeded the FX type that Dowsett ran. The liftback-version of the final RWD Corolla that the drifters like to use.

terryobeirne, I assume these are ex-Bob Holden cars?

I'm in the midst of buying a AE82 Corolla FX-GT that was raced by TOMS UK in the mid 80's. I'm trying to track any history. Apparently the car was one of a few , built in japan, sent to TOMS UK, and eventually came to Australia when TOMS closed in early 1990's. I've looked at Fran De Jong's site but there are no pics of this car/UK races. Can anyone help with any info or referrals to others who might know something. Would be great to contact someone who used to work at TOMS UK??????????
many thanks

Is this one of the two cars that Bob Holden ran for various customers?

The AE82 is the front-drive version of the Corolla, so we're talking about this one?
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1987/Spa-1987-08-02-113.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1987/Silverstone-1987-09-06-114.jpg

If so, then as far as I know, it ran the Spa 24 hours and Silverstone TT WTCC rounds, and a couple of late season BTCC races in 1987. Drivers were Phil Dowsett and Tiff Needell, plus Masanori Sekiya at Spa. Needell drove the car in it's BTCC appearances.

Dowsett then drove it in the BTCC in 88, also appearing at the TT (again with Needell), and scoring several BTCC 1600cc class wins (and I think the class championship?)

TOM'S didn't run in the BTCC in 89, but Dowsett raced what might have been the same car, entered by his own team. No idea what happened to it after that, but it certainly didn't appear in the BTCC again

Surely, if this was the Phil Dowsett car, wasn't it involved in the accident Robb Gravett has in his RS 500 at Thruxton?
(I just thought that mentioning this may jog someone's memory, plus I'm sure there's video of the accident somewhere...).

Surely, if this was the Phil Dowsett car, wasn't it involved in the accident Robb Gravett has in his RS 500 at Thruxton?
(I just thought that mentioning this may jog someone's memory, plus I'm sure there's video of the accident somewhere...).

Yes, I think it's the same one

thanks guys, pic 114 above seems to be the car, it looked pretty much like that when it first got a log book in australia as part of the Bob Holden stable of cars. the TOMS livery was quite distinctive. i believe there were 2 of them raced in BTCC. at some stage, the firwall with the chassis # was changed so this might be the accident alluded to. does anyone have a pic of this?? any more leads or info greatly appreciated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GTRMagic/93721.jpg

At Bathurst with Spencer Martin :)

the car I have was first log-booked here, 22-2-1990. according to Bob, 2 of them were shipped direct to him when TOMS UK closed, and the CAMS log book clealry shows the TOMS livery of silver and red stripes, and thats how it raced here for quite a while. I'm not sure what this means about the supposed later UK history--maybe same car, maybe not. The latest pic provided appears to show the "other" car at bathurst 93, and which Bob still owns. The car I have was raced by Frank Binding in 93. At some stage Bob's car got a sunroof equipped shell, so maybe that was the crashed car.

Anyone know how to contact any of the UK drivers of someone from TOMS in that era????????????
thanks again.

Tiff Needell will be about somewhere (he usually is)

Dunno what Phil Dowsett is upto these doors though.

Did Glen Waters run the Tom's GB op's in between his 80's and then 90's Intersport F3 campaigns?

thanks guys, I've tried Google searches on all 3 people mentioned, and whilst I've got plenty of hits with historical race info, especially for Needell, I'm no closer to a real contact for any of them. anybody help??

I've just noticed these old replies, so thought I should set the record straight. The FX-GT I have is the 2 door , front drive hatch. Built circa 1987 by TOMS GB and sent to Australia in late 1989. I also have two of the AE86 rear drive hatch models (called Sprinter in Australia). I have 3 ex Bob Holden cars. Unfortunately, I have still not been able to contact Phil Dowsett who drove the FX-GT to a BTCC class win in 1989. Dogetts won BTCC outright in his AE86 in 1988. This car was sent to Hong Kong and appears "lost".

I've just noticed these old replies, so thought I should set the record straight. The FX-GT I have is the 2 door , front drive hatch. Built circa 1987 by TOMS GB and sent to Australia in late 1989. I also have two of the AE86 rear drive hatch models (called Sprinter in Australia). I have 3 ex Bob Holden cars. Unfortunately, I have still not been able to contact Phil Dowsett who drove the FX-GT to a BTCC class win in 1989. Hodgetts won BTCC outright in his AE86 in 1988. This car was sent to Hong Kong and appears "lost".


terry, just to assist with your history, the AE86/GT16 model won the '86 and '87 BTCC titles in Chris Hodgetts' hands.

Dowsett appears to have won 1989. BTCC home page...
Drivers Championship - Class D - up to 1600cc (Phil Dowsett).
I cant find any pics or details however.

http://www.users.myisp.co.uk/~climengs/alls_well/alls_well_01.jpg

There are a few pics about but not many ...

I have really enjoyed reading the other Group A thereads in this forum and have anxiously awaited a thread about the little 4AGE powered cars that dominated the 1600cc class, but to no avail.

Well my Nanna always said, if you want something done..................

The rwd coupe was a fabulous car for sure. Chris Hodgetts used them to devastating effect in the BTCC in the mid-1980s.

Some trivia to start with. Apparently the 4AGE engine bears more than a passing resemblance to the BDA and apparently is classic example of 'Japanese copy but done better'.

They did make a helluva racket though didn't they... gotta have been one of the loudest touring cars ever.

There were certainly enough of them to talk about- there always seemed to be hordes of them in the ETCC....

Just looked back through some of my old notes of BTCC results so I'll kick things off with a rough rundown on the BTCC cars.....

The CHMS/Toyota GB programme started in 86 and delivered two BTCC championships- initially a single car programme for Hodgetts (the white car) later joined by a second (red) Demon Tweeks-backed car for Alan Minshaw. CHMS also did selected ETCC rounds and most of the WTCC in '87 with Andrew Bagnall sharing the car- Gulliver's Travel (Bagnall's company?) were a sponsor for most of the overseas adventures.

All sorts of other people appeared in CHMS cars often in one-off drives- Barry Sheene, Patrick Watts, Alex Moss, Will Hoy, Mark Hales, Tony Dron, Chuck Nicholson Colin Pearcy etc....I don't think anyone ever handled one in quite the extrovert manner Hodgetts did though....:cool:

Apart from the Hodgetts cars the main Corolla campiagners in the BTCC tended to be Geoff Kimber-Smith and Tony Crudgington. MIL Motorsport also had one which occasionally appeared alongside their Supras in 1988

GK-S's car was entered under the AGK Motorsport banner (later 'Five Star Racing or something like that) and made a few ETCC appearances as well- a certain Mr Marshall had a couple of outings in the car as I recall?

Other Kimber-Smith co-drivers included Crudgington, Barbara Cowell, and Bob Holden in the Spa 24 hours- was that with GK-S's regular car, or did Holden ship one of his over from Australia? (didn't Holden make a couple of Spa appearances around 1986-8 or so?)

Crudgington's car was usually sponsored by Clausthaler, which was an alcohol-free lager (I've got a vague memory that he ran a pub?). I think he occasionally shared the Kimber-Smith car in the 1-hour BTCC races and some ETCC appearances.

The fwd version of the Corolla appeared in '87 initially in a programme of selected races for TOM'S GB with Phil Dowsett and Tiff Needell behind the wheel- think we've been through some of the history of the TOM'S car before on here- believe it's now in Australia?

There were a couple of other Corollas around 1988/9 for Les Liddiard and Tony Dolley- I think these were the fwd variety like the TOM'S/Dowsett car- Can anyone confirm that, or even better have pics? (don't think I ever saw either of these at the time)

Anyone got any pics? I might have some 1988 TT pics somewhere, plus maybe a few BTCC shots- I'll have a look

Que Dennis Bassom! :-)

Other Kimber-Smith co-drivers included Crudgington, Barbara Cowell, and Bob Holden in the Spa 24 hours- was that with GK-S's regular car, or did Holden ship one of his over from Australia? (didn't Holden make a couple of Spa appearances around 1986-8 or so?)

Bob definatly shipped his car over at some point, perhaps 1987 & 1988 (he may have even campaigned at Spa in years afterwards). In 1986 though i think he drove Kimber-Smiths car, as it was plain white. Bob's cars always had red in the paintwork (going right back to his Group C Escorts from the early 80s)

Bob definatly shipped his car over at some point, perhaps 1987 & 1988 (he may have even campaigned at Spa in years afterwards). In 1986 though i think he drove Kimber-Smiths car, as it was plain white. Bob's cars always had red in the paintwork (going right back to his Group C Escorts from the early 80s)

A bit of a search came up with these pics, which fit your suggestion-
Definitely Holden's own Corolla at Spa in 1988- shared with Ray Gulson and Ray Lintott:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Spa-1988-07-31-133.jpg

looks like Kimber-Smith's regular 'AGK' car in 1986 with Bob Holden and Don Smith
http://members.tripod.com/motorsportarchive3/Bob%20Holden%20Don%20Smith%20Geoff%20Kimber-Smith%20Toyota%20Corolla%20Spa%201986%20a.jpg
http://members.tripod.com/motorsportarchive3/Kimber-Smith%20Holden%20Don%20Smith%20Corolla%201986%20Spa.jpg

Another occasional BTCC Corolla I'd forgotten is the car that appeared on and off in 1985 for Swedish driver Stig Gruen.

I don't think he appeared in the BTCC after '85, but did turn up from time to time in the ETCC in 1988- Spa and the TT at least, with the car carrying Fina sponsorship- don't recall whether that was his own car, or as part of the Fina-backed Belgian team that contested the full season

As there's now a Group A Corolla thread, I thought I'd rescue this from the archives- do we want to talk about both the rwd and fwd versions in the new thread?

Gruen appeared a couple of times in 1985 right?

The European Corrollas I remember were the Castrol Team Toyota Denmark car of John Nielsen and Erik Hoyer (the latter who had pedalled Dolomites and RS2000's in Group1 a few years earlier IIRC) in 1984 which was the car to beat in Class 1.

KA, I remember Marlboro and FINA backed entries in 1988, don't know if they're the ones you mean? The Fina team which I think was run by RAS formerly of Volvo fame? featured a quite well know rally driver of the time I think Van De Warwe (sp?!!!!) or something along with some other handy Belgians of the era.

Can't recall them all at this point!

JT can you move this to MH so I can merge it with the other Corolla thread please?

Done & merged!

Gruen appeared a couple of times in 1985 right?

Bit more than a couple of times- he did the first two or three rounds then dipped in and out of the series- particularly appearing at the GP supports etc. As I remember, it was a very low-budget effort with Gruen often acting as his own mechanic.

Just dug out some old Donington ETCC & TT programmes and had a look at Racingsportscars.com to get a handle on the major regular ETCC Corollas, so prepare for Corolla pic overload....;)

The European Corollas I remember were the Castrol Team Toyota Denmark car of John Nielsen and Erik Hoyer (the latter who had pedalled Dolomites and RS2000's in Group1 a few years earlier IIRC) in 1984 which was the car to beat in Class 1.

The Nielsen/Hoyer Castrol car was very much the dominant Corolla early on around 1984/5/6- Kurt Thiim and Chris Hodgetts also had outings in the Castrol car in 86.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1985/Zolder-1985-09-29-071.jpg

The other main Corollas at that stage were Milos Bychl's ASP Motorsport car, shared with a variety of Czech and Italian drivers (and interestingly Andrew Miedecke at the 85 TT) ...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1985/Spa-1985-07-28-072.jpg

...the German Robert Schumacher car- usually shared with none other than Hermann Tilke(!) and the Belgian IMC car of Fermine/de Liedekerke.

The number of Corollas increased in 86 with the likes of the Czech Georg Albers/Antonin Charouz car, the Swiss Bemani entry, the Lingmann/Holzl Scuderia AVUS car, some ETCC appearances by Chris Hodgetts, and IMC.

Was IMC the Belgian Toyota importer or something like that? If you look at Racingsportscars.com there always seem to have been loads of 'IMC' entries at Spa, including some of the regular cars from other teams

By the time of the WTCC in '87 the main players were Bemani, the Belgians, CHMS, Alber/Charouz etc. Apart from that there were the local entries at the 'flyaway' rounds in Australia, NZ and Japan- Team Toyota Australia, Bob Holden, plus a load of Japanese entries at Fuji

KA, I remember Marlboro and FINA backed entries in 1988, don't know if they're the ones you mean? The Fina team which I think was run by RAS formerly of Volvo fame? featured a quite well know rally driver of the time I think Van De Warwe (sp?!!!!) or something along with some other handy Belgians of the era.

Can't recall them all at this point!

By '88 there were three main 2-car Corolla outfits in the ETCC:

the Belgian Fina cars for Guy Katsers/J-C Burton and Pierre Fermine/Serge de Liedekerke (think the rally driver you mentioned was J-P van der Wauwer or something like that)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-122.jpg

the AAGRK Prague/Marlboro cars of Albers/Charouz and Eddy van Esch/Noel van der Eeckhout
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-126.jpg

and a pair from Peter Seikel- usually Seikel/Dagmar Suster in one and a variety of Italians in the other
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-124.jpg

Apart from that there was the Spanish Camac car...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Jarama-1988-05-15-129.jpg
...and a variety of others that dipped in and out of the series, such as Bob Holden at Spa, Stig Gruen, the fwd TOM'S GB car (plus a TOM'S car from Japan at Spa), CHMS etc. I'm pretty sure Gruen's car ran in Fina colours at Spa and the TT as well as the two Belgian Fina entries.

One interesting point is that apart from the Danish Castrol car, the majority of the European entries seemed to favour the 2-door saloon version rather than the 3-door hatch/coupe favoured by the BTCC Corolla entries. Was the 16-valver ever sold in 2-door form in the UK?

Bit more than a couple of times- he did the first two or three rounds then dipped in and out of the series- particularly appearing at the GP supports etc. As I remember, it was a very low-budget effort with Gruen often acting as his own mechanic.


That's what I remember most about Stig Gruen. He'd often be seen during practice, diving into the pits, jumping out of the car to adjust his own tyre pressures, and then off out onto the track again (presumably with the pressure gauge still in his pocket!).

Some trivia to start with. Apparently the 4AGE engine bears more than a passing resemblance to the BDA and apparently is classic example of 'Japanese copy but done better'.

They did make a helluva racket though didn't they... gotta have been one of the loudest touring cars ever.
Not only was the basic architecture of the 4A-GE the same as the BDA, they also shared the same bore & stroke.

Not a bad engine at all to use as the template I would've thought!!!

Back to the cars themselves, what was the deal with Tony Dolley and Les Liddiard's FXGT's in 1989. They only appeared for that season in plain white and red colours. Were they new or sourced from elsewhere and why were they so off the pace?

I also recall the Ray Armes driven PG Tips Honda Civic V-Tec coming out late in the season and setting a new benchmark for cars in that class; then MSA adopted Class 2/SuperTouring and a very well sponsored and expensive motor car was instantly obsolete......

Not a bad engine at all to use as the template I would've thought!!!

Back to the cars themselves, what was the deal with Tony Dolley and Les Liddiard's FXGT's in 1989. They only appeared for that season in plain white and red colours. Were they new or sourced from elsewhere and why were they so off the pace?

I also recall the Ray Armes driven PG Tips Honda Civic V-Tec coming out late in the season and setting a new benchmark for cars in that class; then MSA adopted Class 2/SuperTouring and a very well sponsored and expensive motor car was instantly obsolete......

Does anyone have pics of the Dolley and Liddiard cars?- I don't think I ever saw them at the time.

Going off-topic (but I don't think there were enough Hondas around to manage a topic of their own yet unless anyone has information on the cars raced in Japan- I've still got the Tamiya 1/24 kit of one of those somewhere) the Ray Armes car was run by Graham Goode as I remember? When the 2-litre regs came in a 4-door Civic saloon was built (run by Trakstar) but was never competitive- I have a vague memory they had to use the 1600 engine from the earlier car at the start of the season which didn;t help.

I've got a couple of pics somewhere- I know I posted a Brands paddock shot in the RS500 thread of Gravett's RS500 with the second Honda lurking in the background, but I think I have one of the earlier car as well.

I've got some Corolla pics to post, although quality-wise they're not up to much- they show the CHMS, Kimber-Smith and Crudgington cars, plus a few of the Europeans- I'll scan them at the weekend and see how they come out

I've got a couple of pics somewhere- I know I posted a Brands paddock shot in the RS500 thread of Gravett's RS500 with the second Honda lurking in the background, but I think I have one of the earlier car as well.



Staying off-topic for a moment- the second Ray Armes PG Tags Honda at Brands in 1990- someone seems to have left a Sierra in the way....:laugh:
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18950&d=1202077794

I did have some pics of the Corollas knocking around somewhere, i'll have a look.

Bit more than a couple of times- he did the first two or three rounds then dipped in and out of the series- particularly appearing at the GP supports etc. As I remember, it was a very low-budget effort with Gruen often acting as his own mechanic.

Just dug out some old Donington ETCC & TT programmes and had a look at Racingsportscars.com to get a handle on the major regular ETCC Corollas, so prepare for Corolla pic overload....;)



The Nielsen/Hoyer Castrol car was very much the dominant Corolla early on around 1984/5/6- Kurt Thiim and Chris Hodgetts also had outings in the Castrol car in 86.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1985/Zolder-1985-09-29-071.jpg

The other main Corollas at that stage were Milos Bychl's ASP Motorsport car, shared with a variety of Czech and Italian drivers (and interestingly Andrew Miedecke at the 85 TT) ...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1985/Spa-1985-07-28-072.jpg

...the German Robert Schumacher car- usually shared with none other than Hermann Tilke(!) and the Belgian IMC car of Fermine/de Liedekerke.

The number of Corollas increased in 86 with the likes of the Czech Georg Albers/Antonin Charouz car, the Swiss Bemani entry, the Lingmann/Holzl Scuderia AVUS car, some ETCC appearances by Chris Hodgetts, and IMC.

Was IMC the Belgian Toyota importer or something like that? If you look at Racingsportscars.com there always seem to have been loads of 'IMC' entries at Spa, including some of the regular cars from other teams

By the time of the WTCC in '87 the main players were Bemani, the Belgians, CHMS, Alber/Charouz etc. Apart from that there were the local entries at the 'flyaway' rounds in Australia, NZ and Japan- Team Toyota Australia, Bob Holden, plus a load of Japanese entries at Fuji



By '88 there were three main 2-car Corolla outfits in the ETCC:

the Belgian Fina cars for Guy Katsers/J-C Burton and Pierre Fermine/Serge de Liedekerke (think the rally driver you mentioned was J-P van der Wauwer or something like that)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-122.jpg

the AAGRK Prague/Marlboro cars of Albers/Charouz and Eddy van Esch/Noel van der Eeckhout
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-126.jpg

and a pair from Peter Seikel- usually Seikel/Dagmar Suster in one and a variety of Italians in the other
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Dijon-1988-05-29-124.jpg

Apart from that there was the Spanish Camac car...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1988/Jarama-1988-05-15-129.jpg
...and a variety of others that dipped in and out of the series, such as Bob Holden at Spa, Stig Gruen, the fwd TOM'S GB car (plus a TOM'S car from Japan at Spa), CHMS etc. I'm pretty sure Gruen's car ran in Fina colours at Spa and the TT as well as the two Belgian Fina entries.

One interesting point is that apart from the Danish Castrol car, the majority of the European entries seemed to favour the 2-door saloon version rather than the 3-door hatch/coupe favoured by the BTCC Corolla entries. Was the 16-valver ever sold in 2-door form in the UK?

I think that the 2- or 3-door question was a marketing ploy by Toyota in Europe: In my native Denmark, all AE86s were the coupé. Since Swede Stig Gruen was 1986 Swedish TCC Champion in a 3-door version I guess that Sweden sold the 3-door version as well, but in Finland it was another story. Heikki Välimäki drove his 2-door to great successes during the 1980's in a paintjob looking like the Australian TTA cars. Välimäki even did a rallycross euro counter or two during this period.

Japan focused on the 3-door coupé as well: http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1990%20Spa.html. As you can see from Weds Sport, they actually allowed for the pop-up head light version in Japan.

Jesper

About Stig Gruen's Corolla, Jesper suggests that that model (3-door) might have been sold in Sweden too, however Stigs was bought in Denmark! I Don't think that Corolla with the "right" engine was sold in Sweden at all.
I helped Gruen at different races when I had no other comittments, and once I happend to meet him at Oulton Park, Easter 85(?). He was alone, so we helped him with "basics" to do. Think he made an easy bump into the tires in practise.
As Jesper writes, Stig was Swedish Group A Champion in 86 (at 60), beating the Volvo and VW teams. Remember at Knutstorp, it was a 1½ h. race and there were two compulsory pit stops, with two wheel changes and tank filling with jerrycan. We had prepared the can with an air release nipple to make it easier and faster. We did it all at the first stop, so the 2nd one was just a stop and go, and Stig finished 4thO/A among all bigger machinery.
For '87 Gruen planned to go the ETC, so as Toyota Denmark were closing down, Gruen asked Erik Höyer if he wanted to join the team. Erik said yes, and enjoyed to be in the "cosiness team" - his own expression. Erik also liked that Gruen was faster than John Nielsen (not that F-3 Nielsen) in Toyota DK had been. I don't think Erik was paid for the drives with Gruen, he just loved to drive fast saloons.
The car was gradually updated with some homologation goodies, most on the suspension. He also bought some expensive bigger brakes and hubs and wheels with center lock, but they were never put on the car, so the car most run with 14" ordinary ATS wheels. The first engine was made with bits from Fritzinger in Germany, but think he then also got things from Toms. He designed the camshafts himself.
When they raced together I think they managed with a couple of third places, as at Anderstorp '87. We had a record crew of 6 incl. the drivers, which was laucy as we got lots to do. The first practise Gruen did think 2 laps and was then missing the rest of the session. The bolts to the flywheel had broken off. John Nielsen turned up to tell "You have to have new bolts every time the flywheel is off". Of course he was right. We changed the engine for Erik to begin the 2nd session. After 2 laps he was missing. The engine had lost the oil pressure so he stopped. Gruen had taken off the swing damper on the lower pulley to make the car 1 or 2 kgs lighter, but that broke the oil pump. It was "impossible" to change the pump without taking the engine out and apart, but somehow we did it whith the engine still in the car. So for the 3 and final session they just had to do their obligatory laps each.
Yes, there are many memories turning up.
Regards, Hagis

Thank you very much Hagis, for that piece of informative history. In early 1989 Gruen was reporting driving a VW Golf G60 in the states, inviting Erik Høyer over for a 3 hour race. This is the last I have ever heard of Gruen.

Jesper

Thanks to all the guys who have put up plenty of info and photos of the European cars. :) It would be great to see some pics of the Aussie Corollas as well.

Not an Aussie Corolla, but a Japanese one- early TOM'S AE86 at Macau 1983
http://photo.163.com/photos/tcd1388/2378846/28408326/#2250267921

Just looking around Racingsportscars.com, and reading the piece about the ex-Vojtech/Enge Hartge BMW in the Lany collection near Prague. In the second pic in the article, that looks like it might be one of the Georg Albers Marlboro Corollas lurking in the background (behind the D2-sponsored F3 car)

http://www.racingsportscars.com/articles/2008-02-Museum-Lany.html

Yep, looks like it doesn't it. Only other possibility is some random Grp A rally car or something?

I must try and get round to posting the images i've got. From memory i've got one of the Danish Castrol car fr the '84 TT sitting next to one of the XJS's I think.

Yep, looks like it doesn't it. Only other possibility is some random Grp A rally car or something?

I must try and get round to posting the images i've got. From memory i've got one of the Danish Castrol car fr the '84 TT sitting next to one of the XJS's I think.

Yes, found the website for the musuem- it is one of the Marlboro ETCC Corollas
http://www.auto-muzeum.cz/?page=en,toyota-corolla-gt-16v

I've dug my Corolla pics out- mostly 1986/88 TT plus a few BTCC shots- all pretty poor quality, but I'll see what I can do with them,as they include the Tony Crudgington BTCC car amongst others

I have a one or two photos of my late Dad driving Geoff Kimber-Smith's car in 1987 if anyone is interested in seeing them?

I have a one or two photos of my late Dad driving Geoff Kimber-Smith's car in 1987 if anyone is interested in seeing them?

Yes please!!! I've got the odd pic to post of the GK-S Corolla in 1988, but they're not up to much, so more would be very welcome

Here you go. I don't know when the photos were taken other than it was round 10 of the championship in 1987 and Dad and Geoff finished 9th but unfortunately I haven't got any mags that cover it. I can't put my finger on who is driving the red car other than it's a BRDC member but possibly a ""works" car from the subtle differences.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/Gregor_Marshall/BTCC_Rd_10_Oulton_-_1987_-_004.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/Gregor_Marshall/BTCC_Rd_10_Oulton_-_1987_-_005.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/Gregor_Marshall/BTCC_Rd_10_Oulton_-_1987_-_003.jpg

Nice one Gregor! Looks like your dad was pressing on in his usual manner there then?!!

That red one is the 2nd Chris Hodgetts run car that he usually ran in the WTCC for Andrew Bagnall if memory serves me right. I think Tiff Needell might have been in the car at this round - I seem to recall some strange strategy where Chris started in one car, Tiff in the other then they swapped cars at pit stop time or something?

Nice one Gregor! Looks like your dad was pressing on in his usual manner there then?!!

That red one is the 2nd Chris Hodgetts run car that he usually ran in the WTCC for Andrew Bagnall if memory serves me right. I think Tiff Needell might have been in the car at this round - I seem to recall some strange strategy where Chris started in one car, Tiff in the other then they swapped cars at pit stop time or something?

Yeah, definitely a bit of opposite lock in the first picture!!

I can't quite make out the names but none of those look like the right format other than possibly the top name does look a bit like Tiffany Dell - a play on words maybe? Do you know when the race was?

Nice one Gregor! Looks like your dad was pressing on in his usual manner there then?!!

That red one is the 2nd Chris Hodgetts run car that he usually ran in the WTCC for Andrew Bagnall if memory serves me right. I think Tiff Needell might have been in the car at this round - I seem to recall some strange strategy where Chris started in one car, Tiff in the other then they swapped cars at pit stop time or something?

The red CHMS car was originally the car used by Alan Minshaw in 86 with his usual Demon Tweeks backing.

Yes, I'm sure you're right about Chris and Tiff doing the car swapping strategy at one of the 1-hour BTCC races- I definitely remember them doing that at one point, although I couldn't tell you which race without looking up the race results- don't have them to hand right now

Here you go. I don't know when the photos were taken other than it was round 10 of the championship in 1987 and Dad and Geoff finished 9th but unfortunately I haven't got any mags that cover it. I can't put my finger on who is driving the red car other than it's a BRDC member but possibly a ""works" car from the subtle differences.



Great pics Gregor- I've just looked up the results, and as you said, it's round 10, the 1-hour race at Oulton, and your dad and GK-S finished 9th/3rd in class.

The race was won by Mike Newman's 635, shared with Robert Speak, with the Dave Carvell/Jeff Allam Rover in 2nd

The Corolla is Hodgetts/Needell- or should that be Needell/Hodgetts...:laugh:

As Chunterer said, CHMS turned up with a pair of cars and only two drivers. Chris started one, Tiff the other and they swapped over at the pitstop, taking a class 1-2, 3rd and 5th overall....I think the red no67 car finished 2nd in class to the white no66, but can't swear to that.....;)

KA - Do you know the date of the race?

KA - Do you know the date of the race?
It was 1987 and wet, that I can say for certain.
Also, [OFF TOPIC - sorry!] the race was lead by Win Percy, by a country mile in Graham Goode's Cosworth until the differential broke on the lap he was due to come in for the driver change. AND, Win started the race on slicks but I'm sure everyone else was on wets!

The pics don't look wet as such but then if it was an hour it could have changed. Do any of these Corollas still exist? I've seen quite a few ex-works rally ones for sale recently.

Anyway, someone out there must know the date!! :rotate:

Slightly O/T but this was the pneultimate Touring Car race Dad did, the last being in 1989 in an M3 but that's for another history thread one day!!

The race was mid September IIRC, race started wet? We'll get the date nailed soon!!

Yes the likes of Percy, Allam and a few other well knows saloon experts paired up with season regulars but it was a fairly remarkable result for Newman/Speak, Rob was IIRC particularly impressive in his stint when conditions were a drying out and managed to stay well ahead.

The quality isn't up to much, but a couple more pics of the GK-S Corolla, this time from the following season 1988- these are at Donington, late season. The car's had a change of colourscheme, now overall plain white, and a change of sponsor- Hot Chip Vending (definitely one of the more unusual BTCC sponsors!) has been replaced by Fotofanatics

First pic doesn't give a great view of the GK-S car, but does show the Tony Crudgington Corolla as well (blurred blue and white car exiting stage left)- I thought I had a decent shot of Crudgington's car somewhere but can't find it at the minute.

Second pic shows Kimber-Smith and one of the Class C Golfs

Here's a picture of my Group A Corolla during it's first Bathurst appearance, the 1986 James Hardie 1000. It was built by Bob Holden from a standard road car for customers Keith McCleland & Brian Nightingale.

does anybody have the detailed race placings for the BTCC rounds over the 1987-89 period???> I'm trying to fill in missing driver/placing info for the ex needell/dowsett/TOMS front drive corolla I have. I have got some info already and am happy to send this to anyone who might be able to help via old programs/magazines etc. thanks a lot. Terry

Terry- I've definitely got some of these, as I've been trying to compile results for those years myself. I don't have time to post them now as I'm about to go out, but if you either post or PM what you're looking for, I'll get back to you with them tonight

Does anyone have a resonable pic of Chris Hodgetts Corolla AE86 then?

Does anyone have a resonable pic of Chris Hodgetts Corolla AE86 then?

I've got a couple of pics, though the quality is pretty poor- If I get a chance, I'll post them later.

A sad footnote to the Chris Hodgetts AE86 Corolla discussion was the death of Jim Whitehouse a couple of weeks ago. Although Jim's main claim to fame was the famous Arden 8 port A-series, he also did the CHMS engines in the AE86... and few will dispute the strength of those motors.

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108723

I believe he also was responsible for the 2.8 Celica Supra engines that Win Percy and Barry Sheene ran in the mid 80's?

Just to keep things ticking over- from http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr , a selection of Corollas at Dijon and Spa.

The red CHMS car we saw earlier- this time on WTCC duty at Dijon '87- Alex Moss/Mark Jennings I think
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijongra87/dijongra87%2092.jpg
Another Dijon Corolla- think this might be the Charouz car if I can make out the nationality flags on the door?
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijongra87/dijongra87%20112.jpg
..and one of the Belgian Fina cars
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijongra87/dijongra87%20104.jpg

Dijon '88- Charouz/Marlboro
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijongra88/dijongra0026.jpg

Spa '87- the Japanese TOM'S/Leyton House car- one of the nicest Corolla liveries...
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa87/spa87114%202.jpg
..and the fwd TOM'S GB car
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa87/spa87%20113.jpg

and finally Spa '88- fwd again for TOM'S
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20139%204.jpg
and a selection of AE86s
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20144.jpg
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20151.jpg
http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20149.jpg

I'll post some of my own from the 1986 and 1988 TT later, probably tomorrow- the quality isn't a patch on these, but they include a couple of cars we haven't seen pics of so far

I believe he also was responsible for the 2.8 Celica Supra engines that Win Percy and Barry Sheene ran in the mid 80's?

I'm pretty sure you're right- it definitely rings a bell with me

In the June/Juli issue of the DTM Magazin there was a story about "forgotten" cars of the DTM like Fiat Ritmo, MG Metro Turbo, VW Golf or Mercedes 380 SLC. One of the cars presented was a Toyota Corolla which one Hermann Tilke drove at Zolder in 1987. It is the car he also raced in the ETCC.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6167/xxxtilkexy0.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxtilkexy0.jpg)

In the June/Juli issue of the DTM Magazin there was a story about "forgotten" cars of the DTM like Fiat Ritmo, MG Metro Turbo, VW Golf or Mercedes 380 SLC. One of the cars presented was a Toyota Corolla which one Hermann Tilke drove at Zolder in 1987. It is the car he also raced in the ETCC.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6167/xxxtilkexy0.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxtilkexy0.jpg)

We talked about Tilke's Corolla exploits earlier in the thread, so it's good to have a pic as well

That DTM Magazine story sounds very interesting- I know we discussed the Metro Turbo's DTM appearances in another thread a while back

I found a couple of pics of Chris Hodgetts CHMS car.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1986/Zolder-1986-09-28-114.jpg

and
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/676647-post1877.html

As a few of you know, I help run Speedhunters.com, and need to educate some of the drift boys that the Corolla was winning BTCC championships, years before they were born LOL!
If you have a better pic(s) PM me. I'll post more if I find them. Its hard finding them, even as Mr Hodgetts himself!

BTW- We have just found some cracking shots of the Fina AE86 which won Spa, so when that gets published, I'll post the pictures here.

I found a couple of pics of Chris Hodgetts CHMS car.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1986/Zolder-1986-09-28-114.jpg

and
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/676647-post1877.html

As a few of you know, I help run Speedhunters.com, and need to educate some of the drift boys that the Corolla was winning BTCC championships, years before they were born LOL!
If you have a better pic(s) PM me. I'll post more if I find them. Its hard finding them, even as Mr Hodgetts himself!

BTW- We have just found some cracking shots of the Fina AE86 which won Spa, so when that gets published, I'll post the pictures here.

Unfortunately I didn't have a particularly good camera at the time, so the pics I was taking as a teenager in 86/87 weren't up to much- not as good as those you've found.

I've got a shot of Hodgetts having a bit of a rallycrossing excursion in the white car at the '86 TT, and one of the red Demon Tweeks car at the same event, plus a couple of shots from the '88 TT- including one of a GREEN CHMS car- sponsorship I think was from a company called 'Mezzanine', and Patrick Watts was one of the drivers as I recall- got a vague memory that 'Mezzanine' had sponsored him in Honda CRXs.

It's an awful pic, but I don't think I've seen another of the car in those colours on the web, unless one's turned up on Racingsportscars.com since I looked last. I'll see if it's salvageable

Couple of other nice Group A pic on that 'Driftworks' thread as well- Datapost Escort and Starion...

Yes, I think Mezzanine was associated with Watts for a while. Then they formed some relationship with Edenbridge racing (maybe they ran Watts in the CRX?) around the time Olly Gavin was racing in F3. Mezzanine seemd to appear on all Edenbridge cars after that.

Photo quality isn't up to much, but a few 1986 TT pics- both of the CHMS cars, the white Hodgetts car indulging in a bit of an off-track moment, and the red Minshaw car- we've seen a couple of pics of this one already in 1987 guide, but here it is in full Demon Tweeks colours.

The plain red car is the German (Swiss?) Lingmann/Holzl entry

1988 Silverstone TT.

The Fina car isn't one of the Belgian Fina team, but Stig Gruen's Swedish car- he appeared a few times in the ETCC that year, with Fina backing at Spa and Silverstone I believe- note he's running the hatchback version, rather than the 2-door favoured by the Belgians.

The plain white car is the CHMS car of Hodgetts, Colin Pearcy and Geoff Kimber-Smith. Sponsor was a company called 'Smith and Latimer' or something like that.

The green one is also CHMS, as mentioned a couple of posts back- I've cropped it out of the original photo and posted separately for a closer look. Hodgetts (cross-entered in both cars, but don't know which he actually raced- his new Brooklyn RS500 was entered I think but not ready in time), Patrick Watts and Harrison- anyone know a Christian name for him, as I don't have my race programme to hand


The fwd TOM'S GB car of Phil Dowsett/Tiff Needell which we've already talked about several times probably needs no introduction...They won the class here from one of the Belgian Fina cars with one of the Charouz/Marlboro team in 3rd. Gruen/Hoyer were 5th, the CHMS/Mezzanine car 6th and the Pearcy car 7th

Yes, I think Mezzanine was associated with Watts for a while. Then they formed some relationship with Edenbridge racing (maybe they ran Watts in the CRX?) around the time Olly Gavin was racing in F3. Mezzanine seemd to appear on all Edenbridge cars after that.

I was trying to think who ran Watts in CRXs- yes, I'm sure you're right about it being Edenbridge

The plain white car is the CHMS car of Hodgetts, Colin Pearcy and Geoff Kimber-Smith. Sponsor was a company called 'Smith and Latimer' or something like that.

I think the white car belonged to Geoff Kimber-Smith and Smith and Latimer were Colin Pearcy's company, builders. IIRC the Smith bit is from Doug Smith (of MG Motorsport) and Latimer was Colins wifes maiden name. The company is still about but Colin left about 2 years ago to set up a new property company, originally called Colin Pearcy Developments!!

Anyway I digress, but a little bit of background......

I think the white car belonged to Geoff Kimber-Smith and Smith and Latimer were Colin Pearcy's company, builders. IIRC the Smith bit is from Doug Smith (of MG Motorsport) and Latimer was Colins wifes maiden name. The company is still about but Colin left about 2 years ago to set up a new property company, originally called Colin Pearcy Developments!!

Anyway I digress, but a little bit of background......

Thanks Gregor- I knew the company name rang a bell but wasn't sure where from. The results as listed on Frank de Jong's site
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1988%20Silverstone.html
certainly list it as a CHMS entry, but as you say, it could easily be GK-S's car entered under the CHMS banner. Looking at those results, it suggests Chris raced this one rather than the green 'Mezzanine' car.

I wonder how many Corollas Chris had? Think there were originally two built for 1986, the white Toyota GB car and the red Demon Tweeks one, but given the amount of ETCC/WTCC races they appeared at in 87/8, I'm guessing that at least couple more cars were built along the way.

Thanks Gregor- I knew the company name rang a bell but wasn't sure where from. The results as listed on Frank de Jong's site
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1988%20Silverstone.html
certainly list it as a CHMS entry, but as you say, it could easily be GK-S's car entered under the CHMS banner. Looking at those results, it suggests Chris raced this one rather than the green 'Mezzanine' car.

I wonder how many Corollas Chris had? Think there were originally two built for 1986, the white Toyota GB car and the red Demon Tweeks one, but given the amount of ETCC/WTCC races they appeared at in 87/8, I'm guessing that at least couple more cars were built along the way.

I'm fairly sure it's Geoff's as he definitely had a white one which I remember Dad testing/racing at Snetterton after it had just been painted in a pearlescent white and I'm sure it had been white before but maybe not then.

1988 Silverstone TT.
The green one is also CHMS, as mentioned a couple of posts back. Patrick Watts and Harrison- anyone know a Christian name for him, as I don't have my race programme to hand

Malcolm Harrison I suspect, used to be a frontrunner in Metro's earlier in that decade. Was he anything to do with the TC Harrison dealer empire. Not sure.

I'm fairly sure it's Geoff's as he definitely had a white one which I remember Dad testing/racing at Snetterton after it had just been painted in a pearlescent white and I'm sure it had been white before but maybe not then.

The GK-S Corolla was definitely white in '88 (if you'll excuse more of my dodgy photography from a couple of pages back....
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19766&d=1212788304 BTCC at Donington, a couple of weeks after the TT)

The GK-S Corolla was definitely white in '88 (if you'll excuse more of my dodgy photography from a couple of pages back....
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19766&d=1212788304 BTCC at Donington, a couple of weeks after the TT)

I would have thought the same car or Geoff K-S's one as the pic I posted on page 4 is white and is number 77 like your one from Donington and a lot of these racing drivers are superstitious about numbers and an event like the TT numbers would be a bit different (hence maybe why 48).

I would have thought the same car or Geoff K-S's one as the pic I posted on page 4 is white and is number 77 like your one from Donington and a lot of these racing drivers are superstitious about numbers and an event like the TT numbers would be a bit different (hence maybe why 48).

I was certainly assuming the Kimber-Smith Corolla your dad is driving on the page 4 pics, and the one in my 1988 Donington pic are the same car with just a change in livery and sponsor between the 1987 and 88 seasons. The race number on the '88 TT car was 148- masked by my unerring ability to get the fence posts in the middle of the shot....;)

I've got no idea whether the Hodgetts/GK-S/Pearcy entry used Geoff K-S's car or a regular Hodgetts car at the TT though- it's a tempting idea though as the car is basically plain white in both pics. I don't have any other CHMS Corolla pics from that season to hand to know if Chris also had a plain white car at that time

Looking at your TT picture and really zooming/enlarging it there seems to be gold along the bottom of the sills - I wonder if this is the pearlescent white car I remember and that is a trick of the light?

how many cars did CHMS Have then?

Been looking for a 87 and a 88 entry list, but to no avail

Looking at your TT picture and really zooming/enlarging it there seems to be gold along the bottom of the sills - I wonder if this is the pearlescent white car I remember and that is a trick of the light?

Well we know one of the CHMS cars (the 86 BTCC winner?) was that colour scheme and it would have made more sense to run that car that the team knew well (and give GKS a useful comparison with his car) than run Geoff's?

Another point is that I always thought the GK-S car appeared to have a higher ride height, or at least looked slightly jacked up at the rear compared to the CHMS cars which seemed almost dangerously low at the rear. Don't know if that's something that might help distinguish the differences?

how many cars did CHMS Have then?

Been looking for a 87 and a 88 entry list, but to no avail

I've been wondering about that- at least two, but probably more- I'd guess three, maybe 4.

The original 1986 programme was two cars- the white car for Hodgetts and the red 'Demon Tweeks' car for Alan Minshaw.

The 1987 programme was much heavier, and if it was done with just 2 cars, then those little Corollas were worked VERY hard. On top of defending Hodgetts' BTCC title, they also did a large proportion of the WTCC and ETCC rounds with Andrew Bagnall. I've just had a skim through the results on Frank de Jong's Touring Car History website, and I reckon they took in at least a dozen races, on top of a full BTCC season, with 2 cars appearing at some of the BTCC rounds, Donington ETCC and the TT...

I'm pretty sure at least one new car was built along the way- I think the car used for the Australian/NZ and Japanese WTCC races may have been a new chassis for Bathurst- I'll look that up later in the '87 Bathurst annual.

I've got approximate entry lists for the BTCC covering the years CHMS ran Corollas, but they're at home and I can't access them right now- I'll post the relevant bits of them later

Just to follow up on this- to give an idea of how busy the 1987 was for the CHMS squad, these were their overseas adventures (OK, including Donington and Silverstone:p ) in the ETCC and WTCC:


March 22- Monza WTCC- Chris Hodgetts/Andrew Bagnall: 10th o/a, 1st class
April 5- Donington ETCC: 2 cars: Hodgetts/Bagnall: DNF, Alex Moss/Mark Jennings: 10th o/a, 2nd class
(interestingly, in the programme, there's a third CHMS Corolla entered for Mark Hales/Richard Belcher which presumably didn't show...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/covers/_Donington-1987-04-05e.jpg )
May 10: Dijon WTCC: Moss/Jennings: 19th o/a, 2nd class
(this is definitely the 'red' car- http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/dijongra87/dijongra87%2092.jpg )
May 24: Anderstorp ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 8th o/a, 3rd class
June 7: Zolder ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: 9th o/a, 2nd class
June 14: Zeltweg ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 12th o/a, 1st class
June 28: Imola ETCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 18th o/a, 5th class
Aug 1/2: Spa 24 hours WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: DNF
(the 'white' car: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1987/Spa-1987-08-02-092.jpg )
Sept 6: Silverstone TT WTCC: 2 cars: Hodgetts/Bagnall: 15th o/a, 1st class (the white car again: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1987/Silverstone-1987-09-06-106.jpg and Gareth Chapman/Moss/Hodgetts: 16th o/a, 2nd class (presumably the red car)
October 4: Bathurst WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: DNF
(definitely a white car, but maybe a new one for the long-haul Australia/NZ/Japan leg of the WTCC)
October 26: Wellington WTCC: Hodgetts/Bagnall/Jennings: 16th o/a, 1st class
November 15: Fuji WTCC: Hodgetts/Jennings DNF


All of that on top of a BTCC title defence.....about the only thing missing was a trip to Macau...

At the time I always viewed CHMS as a pretty serious team with a decent infrastructure. What happened to them ? Chris seems to be operating on his own these days doing driver coaching and son Stefan seems to be struggling without a budget to get drives.

I took a look at the Bathust annual and 1987 BTCC results, and there may well have been 4 CHMS Corollas. The Bathurst car was a plain white Corolla with 'Gullivers Travel' logos. According to the rundown on the entry list in the book: 'The No.94 Corolla featured a brand new shell prepared by 1986 British champ Chris Hodgetts, and hadn't even been tested before coming to Bathurst'

According to the BTCC results I've got noted down CHMS ran 3 cars at a couple of the early-season BTCC rounds. Their BTCC entries were as follows:

R1 Silverstone

Chris Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st in class
Alan Minshaw- 10th o/a, 2nd in class
Paul Longfield- 12th o/a, 3rd in classR2 Oulton

Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st in class
Chuck Nicholson- 9th o/a, 2nd in class
Alex Moss- 10th o/a, 3rd in classR3 Thruxton

Hodgetts- 5th o/a, 1st class
Longfield- 10th o/a, 3rd classR4 Thruxton

Hodgetts- 11th o/a, 2nd classR5 Snetterton
Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class
[/LIST]

R6 Silverstone GP

Hodgetts- 12th o/a, 1st class
Will Hoy- 14th o/a, 3rd class

R7 Brands

Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class
Moss- 10th o/a, 2nd class


R8 Snetterton

Hodgetts- 7th o/a, 1st class


R9 Donington

Hodgetts- 9th o/a, 1st class
Tony Dron- 13th o/a, 3rd class


R10 Oulton Park- 1 hour race

Tiff Needell/Hodgetts- 3rd o/a, 1st class
Hodgetts/Needell- 5th o/a, 2nd class

As we discussed a couple of pages back CHMS did the 1 hour/2 driver race with 2 cars and only 2 drivers- they qualified both cars, Chris started one, Tiff the other, then at the pitstop they pitted together and swapped cars....

R11 Donington

Hodgetts- 8th o/a, 1st class

R12 Silverstone

Mark Hales- 9th o/a 1st class (Hodgetts was away at Bathurst)

Chris Hodgetts ran three cars for the Donington 500 qualifying in early 1987, with the drivers gathering in two cars for the race.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the Belgian Fina Corollas were run by RAS Sport. I know that RAS ran a couple of Fina sponsored Supra Turbos during the '88 Spa 24h, but there were never any RAS logos on the Fina Corollas, which I suspect were more identified by long time driving partners Serge de Liedekerke and Pierre Fermine. In fact three Belgian FINA Racing Corollas were entered and raced during the '88 Spa, with Stig Gruens Swedish car being the forth in Fina colours. The Gruen car also ran in these colours during the following Zolder round of the ETCC, and probably also at Nogaro a week after the Silverstone TT.

Jesper

In researching my Bob Holden AE86 Sprinters, I got this info that may be useful in this thread.......

from Tom Kimber Smith
I know that one of the cars that Geoff raced went to Macau in the late 80’s but im not sure what happened to it after that.

from Chris Hodgetts
my6 86 championship winning car was sold to Andrew Bagnall(Gullivers travel,Auckland NZ),and we raced this in Europe in 87 and also did Bathurst with it.(he stuffed it!)

thanks for that info terry :D

Chris Hodgetts ran three cars for the Donington 500 qualifying in early 1987, with the drivers gathering in two cars for the race.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the Belgian Fina Corollas were run by RAS Sport. I know that RAS ran a couple of Fina sponsored Supra Turbos during the '88 Spa 24h, but there were never any RAS logos on the Fina Corollas, which I suspect were more identified by long time driving partners Serge de Liedekerke and Pierre Fermine. In fact three Belgian FINA Racing Corollas were entered and raced during the '88 Spa, with Stig Gruens Swedish car being the forth in Fina colours. The Gruen car also ran in these colours during the following Zolder round of the ETCC, and probably also at Nogaro a week after the Silverstone TT.

Jesper

Thanks for clearing that up Jesper- I hadn't noticed the Fina team had ever run 3 cars

One thing I noticed looking at Spa results and entry lists is that a lot of Corollas seemed to be entered under the name 'IMC Toyota'- (I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread) even those which were clearly from some of the well-known Corolla teams, such as the Danish Castrol car. The 1985 entry list is an example- all of the Corollas seem to be 'IMC' entries...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/covers/_Spa-1985-07-28e.jpg
It's clearly not an individual team, so who were IMC? Was it just a case of Toyota's Belgian importer 'adopting' the Corolla entries for marketing reasons?

I've never seen photographic evidence to prove it, but as you suggest, I'd be very surprised if the Gruen Corolla ran in anything other than Fina colours at Nogaro in '88, bearing in mind it was still in them a week earlier at the TT

At the time I always viewed CHMS as a pretty serious team with a decent infrastructure. What happened to them ? Chris seems to be operating on his own these days doing driver coaching and son Stefan seems to be struggling without a budget to get drives.

The CHMS operation seemed to wind down after Hodgetts joined MIL Motorsport to drive the Supra in '88, although CHMS Corollas still appeared.

I don't think we ever established in the Supra thread how MIL was set up- was it an all-new team or a rebranding of an existing operation?. The presence of Vic Lee anongst the drivers suggests he may have been involved in setting the team up, but given that regular Hodgetts team-mate/co-driver Alex Moss was also involved, I wonder if any of the CHMS crew migrated to MIL with Chris (MIL also had a Corolla- wonder if it was an ex-CHMS car?) It always struck me as curious that after winning 2 championships with CHMS, Toyota apparently decided to support a new operation, and not CHMS to run the Supra, despite Chris staying on as a driver...

Alternatively, was the Brooklyn RS500 which appeared after Chris parted company with MIL run out of Brooklyn's own workshops, or did CHMS evolve into the Brooklyn team?. I'm curious to know the links- if any- between the various teams Chris drove for- Brooklyn (in Escort RS1600i guise), CHMS, MIL and the Brooklyn RS500 entry

Dont know, other than Brooklyn were involved before and during Chris's Corolla years. (Sponsorship on front bumper in some images + Chris drove a Brooklyn RS1600i)

btw- ka - did you get my pm?

Dont know, other than Brooklyn were involved before and during Chris's Corolla years. (Sponsorship on front bumper in some images + Chris drove a Brooklyn RS1600i)

btw- ka - did you get my pm?

I'd forgotten about the 'Brooklyn Vehicle Contracts' sponsorship on the Corolla...

Yes, I'll have a look at that and get back to you- Great choice of pics, my mental image of Chris in a Corolla always seems to involve it having two wheels airborne over the kerbs....

Incidentally, for a closer detailed look at a Group A AE86, (though Charouz/Marlboro, rather than CHMS) the Lany Museum seem to have upgraded their website since I last looked at it, with a full page of pics for each car in the collection- lots of underbonnet and interior shots of their Marlboro Corolla
http://www.auto-muzeum.cz/en/toyota-corolla-gt-16v

Thanks for that KA. CHMS was certainly a sizeable team of people in the midlands building cars and it does seem rather odd that the outfit evaporated when Chris moved to MIL as they ran cars for plenty of other people. Maybe they were underwritten by Toyota to a such an extent that when the plug was pulled so went the team.

Ten-tenths member William Dale Jr has sent me a complete list of results for Australian Touring Cars in 1990 & 1991, thanks William! It appears that my car nearly always ran #76 in that period. All i need now is some photos, please, anyone!

As promised, Speedhunters have now published the Fina sponsored Spa winner pics here, along with a write up (Antonio is a general AE86 nut, rather than a race fan)

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008/08/29/car-feature-gt-gt-unearthing-the-spa-24h-ae86.aspx

CHMS post coming up soon :)

searching for images, I've just found this. Bob Holden sponsored car at Spa

http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20133.jpg

searching for images, I've just found this. Bob Holden sponsored car at Spa

http://lemansmotorsport.free.fr/spa88/spa88%20133.jpg
Not only sponsored by Bob Holden, he also owned and drove that car. It is now owned by 10/10 member TerryO, who is currently restoring it for Historic racing.

http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details.php?image_id=12613&mode=search

..is a link to a picture of Finn Heikki Välimäki - the first I've ever found of his car, magazines included. Put in Gruen in the search field and a few pics of his car shows up as well, including a portrait of "The Stig" himself.

Jesper

http://www.teambild.se/arkiv/details.php?image_id=12613&mode=search

..is a link to a picture of Finn Heikki Välimäki - the first I've ever found of his car, magazines included. Put in Gruen in the search field and a few pics of his car shows up as well, including a portrait of "The Stig" himself.

Jesper

That's a great find Jesper- I think I might spend a while looking through that site, just found a couple of other interesting pics....

thanks andy_b. that is my corolla at Spa. Its almost back together.

The CHMS post was published on Speedhunters the other week. No info, that you guys didn't already know, but a larger version of the black and white pic.
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008/09/01/car-spotlight-gt-gt-chms-toyota-corolla-ae86-touring-car.aspx

If your interested, I have a larger version of it, but its b&w

I had that picture on my bedroom wall back in the day as well... great photo. It was either a colour centre spread in Autosport, or one of the pull-out posters.

Yeah!! I had something similar up on one of my walls too!

BTW, I've still got to dig out that John Nielsen TT pic as well so I can scan and post it on here!! If I recall there's one or two oher cars around it like a Jag and a smart looking Bosch liveried Golf.

OT for a second; I used to divide my 3 bedroom walls into posters for Group A, F1 and F3000/F3!!! I also had a 'centrespread' width section to the right of a book shelf and anything I fancied went on there like Group B/A rally cars, Group C, prodsaloons and anything else!! :)

As a teenager I divided my bedroom walls up for posters as well... motor racing on one side and women on the other ! To appreciate the nostalgia, I suggested to my missus that we decorate the walls of our house in a similar manner and having been released from hospital in the last few days, I'm recovering well from my injuries :)

Hahahah!!

Yes me and my missus have had a few discussions and then she's picked me up off the floor, agreed who'd pay for what etc.....

Bit disappointing but the old pic I thought I had of the John Nielsen Castrol car only features it behind the Jag and the Golf!!

Here it is anyway:

parc ferme '84 TT

Bit disappointing but the old pic I thought I had of the John Nielsen Castrol car only features it behind the Jag and the Golf!!

Here it is anyway:

parc ferme '84 TT

Actually that's quite an interesting pic, as it shows the Corolla loaded up on the trailer- these days, even at the back of the grid it would probably be a 12-metre artic and a big motorhome rather than a Merc van and a trailer...

Going a bit off-topic, the other interesting thing is that Golf.... (another shot, on track: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1984/Silverstone-1984-09-09-068.jpg )
The Mk2 Golf was always a rare bird in the ETCC as it was heavier than the Mk1 and the 1.8 engine (still in 8-valve form) put it into Class 2 against the 2.5 litre Alfas etc.
Apart from the RAS cars (The Bosch-backed car in '84, one in 'Monroe' colours in '85, and a 'Drakkar Noir'-backed car appeared at Zolder '85:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc/1985/Zolder-1985-09-29-054.jpg -I wonder if these were all the same car?) about the only other I can think of is Alan Minshaw's 'Demon Tweeks' car which appeared at the TT.

It only really came into it's own as a touring car in 16-valve form when the BTCC added the 1.6 to-2-litre class around 1987/8- and then of course Vauxhall turned up soon after with the 2-litre 16v Astra.....

There were a lot of Golfs in Production Saloons then and I think "Mable" Minshaws might have been a Group N one as he was in Prod Saloons in it in '86.
Funnily enough I don't remember any Corollas in Prod Saloons though, strange, I'm sure there must have been but I can only think of Astras, Novas, Stradas and Golfs in the smaller classes.

Thanks KA ;)

That Bosch livery was certainly striking and when I was little my 'toy car' Group A racing team featured that same livery although 'I' didn't run Golf's but big class entries!!! Er herm....

Anyway back to topic, nice point you make about the trailers - quite nostalgic seeing an international entry with a trailer as you say. The only chance we get to see International entries like that these days is dummy or spare cars being rushed about to a meeting or a test or something!!!

There were a lot of Golfs in Production Saloons then and I think "Mable" Minshaws might have been a Group N one as he was in Prod Saloons in it in '86.
Funnily enough I don't remember any Corollas in Prod Saloons though, strange, I'm sure there must have been but I can only think of Astras, Novas, Stradas and Golfs in the smaller classes.

Minshaw's was a Group A car, and he originally ran one late season in 1984 in 8v guise, it disappeared and may have been the same car albeit with a 16 valve engine installed when he returned to BTCC full time in 1988?

No there weren't many prodsaloon Corollas but Sean Brown ran one (to class title honours in '85 IIRC?) along with the likes of Terry Stone and Ray Calcutt.

Minshaw's was a Group A car, and he originally ran one late season in 1984 in 8v guise, it disappeared and may have been the same car albeit with a 16 valve engine installed when he returned to BTCC full time in 1988?

No there weren't many prodsaloon Corollas but Sean Brown ran one (to class title honours in '85 IIRC?) along with the likes of Terry Stone and Ray Calcutt.

I remember the Minshaw Golfs being discussed on one of the Golf GTI enthusiast forums and I think the consensus of opinion might have been 2 Group A cars and a couple of prodsaloons- An ex-Minshaw Group A car was apparently alive and well and still competing in sprints and hillclimbs in Scotland a couple of years back

There were a lot of Golfs in Production Saloons then and I think "Mable" Minshaws might have been a Group N one as he was in Prod Saloons in it in '86.
Funnily enough I don't remember any Corollas in Prod Saloons though, strange, I'm sure there must have been but I can only think of Astras, Novas, Stradas and Golfs in the smaller classes.

I'm trying to remember what the class split was in prodsaloons- was it 1.8 or 2-litres? Either way, I think it put the Corolla up against bigger-engined (1.8 litre 8v Astra and Golf, 2-litre Strada) opposition. The Pug 205GTI appeared as well, but I don't think anyone ever had that much success with one apart from Kieth Odor taking the class one year in the Janspeed 205

Yes, that's right I think? I was trying to think of what Sean Brown was up against myself!

I think that in '85 it was upto 1300; 1301 -2000; 2001 - 2500 and then 2501- 4000 or something like that?

I recall Brown often battling with Karl Jones' Ritmo, but I'm not entirely sure they were in the same class.

If it was in a 1300-2000 class then they would've been?

I'd forgotten about Sean Brown in the FAI car and I think the Pugs were a bit later (along with the Hondas).
I can't remember the split either, as some of it was age/engine type as well as size related (hence the 3.0 Monza in class B in '86).
Dad ran three Stradas, one for Karl, one for Eric Cook and a spare; great little cars but a bit OT now!!

and the relevance of VW Golfs in a toyota thread is????????????????

I've comnfirmed that pic of the Bob Holden Sprinter at Spa is my car.

I'm still chasing pics of my AE82 front wheel drive Corolla that I believe raced at Spa 88-89. does anyone have any other links I can hunt thru??

and the relevance of VW Golfs in a toyota thread is????????????????


Well you know, it had the misfortune of being a damn fine liveried car in a pic that the Corolla was in!! ;)

I think there's enough posts here about Golfs to warrant splitting them off into their own thread. Mods???

Well if anyone wants to start one off, I will move the relevant posts, but the thoughts hadn't crossed my mind yet.

Well if anyone wants to start one off, I will move the relevant posts, but the thoughts hadn't crossed my mind yet.

We could give it a go- the BTCC ones shouldn't be too difficult to make sense of, apart from 'where are they now?' The Euro ones might be more of a challenge- as I recall, there were hordes of them until the Corolla began to dominate the 1600 class- and even then the German ETC rounds seemed to bring them out in force...

If we do, maybe we should include the Sciroccos as well?

Not a bad engine at all to use as the template I would've thought!!!

Back to the cars themselves, what was the deal with Tony Dolley and Les Liddiard's FXGT's in 1989. They only appeared for that season in plain white and red colours. Were they new or sourced from elsewhere and why were they so off the pace?

I also recall the Ray Armes driven PG Tips Honda Civic V-Tec coming out late in the season and setting a new benchmark for cars in that class; then MSA adopted Class 2/SuperTouring and a very well sponsored and expensive motor car was instantly obsolete......

Just found a nice clip on YouTube- a bit under 10 minutes of BTCC action from Silverstone in '89. Mainly features a win by Rouse and a couple of entertaining scraps between the RS500s of Jerry Mahony, Karl Jones, and Mike Smith, but also a fair number of 1600 class cars, including the Honda, Crudgington's Corolla and all three of the fwd FX GTs- Dowsett, Dolley and Liddiard.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=esuNExxpza8&feature=related

I'm having a bit of a BTCC / ETCC programme clearout, some of which are actually relevant to the topic of this thread.

If anyone is interested, here is the thread in question - http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2342080#post2342080