Zandvoort Masters of F3 cancelled

Thanks to the Dutch court, the Zandvoort Circuit has to cut on international racing days. They had to cancel one event, so the Masters are now off.

It's not totally of yet, as they are gonna try if it's possible to combine it with the A1GP weekend, but I'm not happy happy with this news :(

Booooooooo

are you guys sure about this??? Wasn't it supposed to be together with the NEC Renault 2-liter round?

well that's complete penguins :(

I guess Daisy's on the spot, so should know, but I'm not convinced yet.

Anyway, when is the A1GP event, October sometime?

Noooooo! I've been to the Master just once but has been the best race experience of ever!!
So many people for a F3 race, so many future talents alltogether...
Noooo! It can not be the end of the Zandvoort Master...
Noooo, noooo, noooo!

No reason for any doubts about this sad news. It's on the Zandvoort circuit website.

The Masters is now going to be held at Zolder, I think on the first weekend in August. The teams were notified today.

It definitely won't be the same, but I suppose it's better than nothing. At least the organisation will be the same.

ARSE.

ah well, i suppose at least the race is still on. no trip to the seaside though :(

Are there so many international events at Zandvoort Circuit???

WTCC is a new event there this year so that's at least one new

it's also the length of the event that's a problem - the masters was reduced to 2 days from 3 to allow for another meeting (iirc in time for the 2006 event). and wtcc will probably be a 3 day event, along with a1gp also being 3 days, same with dtm (is that still there?). and i don't think their allowance is many more than 9 days. so it's a bit tricky for them.

What is the allowance related to? Sound regulations?

it's an allowance of days above a set noise limit, which as i understand it, is just above the noise made by formula renaults, but some distance below that made by a f3 car. it's not possible to silence a f3 car to the relevant noise level.

it's also the length of the event that's a problem - the masters was reduced to 2 days from 3 to allow for another meeting (iirc in time for the 2006 event). and wtcc will probably be a 3 day event, along with a1gp also being 3 days, same with dtm (is that still there?). and i don't think their allowance is many more than 9 days. so it's a bit tricky for them.It's actually worse than that. Until now the allowance has been 7 noisy days and they were hoping it would be increased to 10 for this year. Instead the government (not even the local authority) told them they are now restricted to 5 noisy days. Those will go to the DTM and the A1GP. Even then they will have to squash things up a bit. I don't know where the WTCC fits in. Is that not noisy?

Went to Zandvoort today for the WTCC testing. I can't believe that these cars don't exceed the noice limit, so its seems the plan is: 3 days for DTM, 2 days for A1 GP and 2 days for WTCC. As far is I understand there are still 7 (full) noisy days allowed. This "Masters to Zolder" is new to me. As I understood they are trying to combine the Masters with the A1GP in one weeekend.

...I don't know where the WTCC fits in. Is that not noisy?
WTCC car`s and noisy? :rofl:
When you hear it you think they have two silencers...

Christian
EuroBOSS

This "Masters to Zolder" is new to me. As I understood they are trying to combine the Masters with the A1GP in one weeekend.I think they were, but the A1GP weekend clashes with the final round of British F3 at Rockingham. They wouldn't change that now, hence Zolder. The British teams are much less enthusiastic about the Masters now it's run on Kumhos, because that automatically gives an edge to the Euroseries teams. They should run a neutral tyre, as in Macau.

I really hope they can sort something out at Zandvoort for 2008. It was always one of the highlights of my year. I really like Holland and the Dutch people (and I'm not saying that just because it's you, Dutch chap! ;) )

It was a lower organ than the government who got it cancelled it was some kind of province court, the government had given the 'order' to get as much big events to Holland as possible. But as the provinces and cities are mostly run by a bunch of mad greenies and lefties (probaply because they're extremely fanatic with voting) things are not really working out like our liberal gov wants.

i suppose as well that it generally doesn't bring any mass invasion of people, because most of the accomodation is usually booked up by holidaymakers around the area.

i think in absense of a neutral tyre, a neutral track is a reasonable alternative. on the other hand, i believe they're considerably more flexible on testing than zandvoort were, so there is still scope for getting a quick few laps in to get ahead.

I think they were, but the A1GP weekend clashes with the final round of British F3 at Rockingham. ;) )I was not aware any dates had been confirmed for an A1GP season 07/08,even if a 3rd season would take place.Shame about loss of F3 atZandvoot,also I would have rather seen Champcar/Euroboss there rather than Zolder & Assen.

A neutral track is better than nothing. But there is a ban on testing at the circuit where the race is to be held from the date the regulations are issued, so people are going to get a move on.

I really like Holland and the Dutch people (and I'm not saying that just because it's you, Dutch chap! ;) )

You're right. All the others are nice people. I'm one of te few exeptions. :laugh:

There's a report about this on autosport.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56906) now, although they haven't caught up with the Zolder part of it yet. From what I understand, that will only go ahead if all the teams agree to support it. My feeling is that they will.

Apparently the WTCC cars are below the noise limit, which is a surprise judging by some of the posts here.

isn't the zandvoort noise limit done by general noise rather than testing an isolated car?

isn't the zandvoort noise limit done by general noise rather than testing an isolated car?

If that was the case, couldn't they just run smaller fields for the Masters? Say, a 20-car qually race then a 20-car final?

Sad news and the end of an era, but if the race pitches up at Zolder that's a good thing. The layout should make it easier to overtake than at Zandvoort, it's easy to get to for everyone in Britain and the Euroseries, and at least the Euroseries doesn't go to Zolder, so that takes one of the 'unfair' advantages away.

The Zandvoort/Zolder organisers have a meeting on Monday and then they decide!

Christian
EuroBOSS

isn't the zandvoort noise limit done by general noise rather than testing an isolated car?I don't know, but I think you're right. It may be that how long the noise goes on for is also a factor.

F3 cars have always run unsilenced at Zandvoort, as they do at Macau, They run with silencers in both the F3 Euroseries and British F3, so they could have done that but it sounds (sorry! ;)) as though that would not have been enough. It certainly wouldn't have brought them down to FRenault levels.

Does anybody know what is the noise limit? In Italy we are having many similar problems as well, but 5 days as far too less!!

I'll try to find out, but it's worth mentioning that the limit only applies to 5 noisy days. There are plenty of other race meetings at Zandvoort that run within the noise limit. There have to be - you can't run a race circuit on a 5 day season!

for some reason, i have 105db stuck in my head, and i'm not entirely sure why. the second figure i have is 95db.

105 dbA is the figure that most categories in the UK have to run at. It's in the MS Blue Book somewhere. 95 would be really, really quiet! British F3 is 114 dbA, but used to be 118. It's strange, because the official FIA figure for F3 is 98dbA, but they leave it to each country's ASN (in our case the MSA) to decide whether or not to enforce it. That's why British F3 gets away with 114.

I think it's 96 dB at 5 m above the track.

I think with this decision it will give also big problems for the planned TGP F1 race at Zandvoort 8-9 september (GTO Grand Prix Classic)...

Christian
EuroBOSS

Re the noice level: as I recall it's a constant 55 Db(!) if it is during an 8 hour period, not on the track, but at the houses in the town of Zandvoort. The noice level is measured at the track and while using a table a certain outcome is allowed. Sorry for my bad English. I hope I made it clear.

i knew those numbers stuck in my head for a reason!

surely the sea washing against the shore on a rough night makes more noise than a herd of stampeding formula 3 cars? :/

Okay, so give yourself a brownie point for being so smart! :D

If I may wander slightly off topic, Rockingham in the UK is in a similar situation. They have to take noise readings in villages miles away and these are not allowed to exceed 47 dbA. I asked a technical guy what that was in real terms and he said: "About the noise an ink jet printer makes." There is more noise from the nearby main road, but apparently that doesn't count.

There's a similar anomoly at Donington. They have strict noise restictions, yet the East Midlands airport is a couple of miles away with aircraft flying in and out all day long (and every day) making far more noise.

Sorry for the mini rant, but this is a sore subject with me.

it's a topic covered extensively in the trackside forum as well, with specific regard to snetterton. personally, i think the nimby groups are largely populated by self-preservationist muppetry. the perpetuators of the aforementioned muppetry clearly have a problem with other people having fun in cars and making a bit of noise at the same time.

rant over.

Ah, Bella you mentioned the nimby issue. The Zandvoort situation has been to the "supreme court" and it was their ruling. It was not a political issue (at least, not this time). There were 3 individuals complaining, the town of Bloemendaal (nearby Zandvoort; you pass it while entering the entering the town of Zandvoort) and 2 enviromental foundations. This IS a NIMBY case. And of course one of the individuals complaining is the founder (and only member) of one of the 2 foundations that complained. So that leaves 2 reasonable inhabtitants of the Zandvoort community that are to be taken serious about it.

I wonder, a certain amount of money could have helped. Why not go that way...?

There were 3 individuals complaining, the town of Bloemendaal (nearby Zandvoort; you pass it while entering the entering the town of Zandvoort) and 2 enviromental foundations. And of course one of the individuals complaining is the founder (and only member) of one of the 2 foundations that complained. So that leaves 2 reasonable inhabtitants of the Zandvoort community that are to be taken serious about it.
My God, if this was not so bad for racing, it would be seriously funny :laugh:

I think it should be called Motorsportphobia, a serious disease spreading near race tracks :(

Like Anderstorp in Sweden.. it's in the middle of f**king nowhere (really!) yet there's a few locals complaining about sound levels.

i honestly don't get it. i mean, especially with zandvoort and bloemendaal (stayed there in 2005 - very nice), there's an influx of people for all their major motorsport events that create business for the hotels, restaurants, and they must rack up a nice amount of business for the beachside parking meters too. the noise is, well, these people choose to live there don't they. sometimes it is noisy. like sometimes it's a bit windier than normal, and sometimes it rains.

If anyone's interested, the switch to Zolder has now been confirmed. The BP Ultimate Masters will be held there on August 3/4/5.

A change from the usual Zandvoort schedule is that testing will now be on Friday afternoon, qualifying on Saturday on Saturday and the race on Sunday. It's better, I think.