March 772

My brother has a March 772 ex N.Z. that is giving us a lot of problems sorting out history and Ken Smith can't seem to assist. Can you, if I give you details??

I believe we have started a new thread.

If Ken Smith cant id it for you it must be a hard one then.I'm sure less than a handful of 77's ever came here.A 772 would be unusual because most of them were 77Bs or 773s with the narrow sidepods that were used here.Does your 772 have the wide F2 sidepods?.The Marches weren't overly sucessfull here against the Chevrons and Ralts.It wasn't until Fabi came here with the 78B in 1979 they won some races.

I have pretty good histories of 772s in period for the first couple of years of their lives and might be able to throw some light.

My brother will contact soon re. his March which is 772-5, but in N.Z. was always known as 77B; talk about a can of worms.

David McKINNEY, is it poss. for you to have a look at another thread March 772-05 please, and see if you can make anything out of it.
Bryan.

My brother Kevin owns what turned out to be the ex. Brett Riley 772/77B .

But didn't Brett run that car in UK. Did he then take it back to NZ after the 77 British Atlantic season?

This is one for Steve.

From the on the Missing March Sprint and Hillclimb Cars of the 70s (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66782) thread.

I need help in identifying the following MARCH cars:

g) 1978 to 1979 - Ted Williams - March 772/782 - a succession of cars led to this March, where did it come from?
g) Ricardo Zunino 1977
Williams' car 772 -6 if F1R to be believed on Zunino's driving it.This one's a bit tricky as Williams starts the season in his 752; then his upgraded 752/772; then the 772 and quite possibly a 772/782 before the end of the year - although I haven't found the last part yet.

I've tried to pinpoint where he first drives the 772 and Autosport kindly obliges (22 June 1978 p57) with a "first time out in his F2 March" remark. So that would imply that he had been in the 752/772 at Curborough 4 June, not the 772 as it says on BritishSprint.org.

I can't find any reference to it having 782 mods in 1978 so I'm going to change the specification on ORC to 772-Hart 420R for that season.

Edit: Also flicked through 1979 and Autosport keeps calling his mount a 772. I'm be fairly confident then that the 772P that you have for him at Talbenny 16 Sep 1979 would be that same 772-6.

Allen

This is one for Steve.

From the on the Missing March Sprint and Hillclimb Cars of the 70s (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66782) thread.

This one's a bit tricky as Williams starts the season in his 752; then his upgraded 752/772; then the 772 and quite possibly a 772/782 before the end of the year - although I haven't found the last part yet.

I've tried to pinpoint where he first drives the 772 and Autosport kindly obliges (22 June 1978 p57) with a "first time out in his F2 March" remark. So that would imply that he had been in the 752/772 at Curborough 4 June, not the 772 as it says on BritishSprint.org.

I can't find any reference to it having 782 mods in 1978 so I'm going to change the specification on ORC to 772-Hart 420R for that season.

Edit: Also flicked through 1979 and Autosport keeps calling his mount a 772. I'm be fairly confident then that the 772P that you have for him at Talbenny 16 Sep 1979 would be that same 772-6.

Allen

Allen, I will have to check back on the Curborough event. In the Black Book it says it is the 752 however it is riddled with inaccuracies. I do have Williams in the 752 at the start of the season. Also at which event in 22 June 1978Autosport is the comment about this being his first time out in the 772?

Finally on my version of the database I have Williams in the 772/782 for the 1979 Talbenny event so I have instigated a cross check between my version and the on-line version.

Thanks.

Why not ask Ted directly? No I do not have a contact for him but he will be in the book, under motorhomes!:rofl:

why not ask Ted directly no i do not have a contact for him but he will be in the book under motorhomes!:rofl:

Your use or is it mis-use of CAPITALS (Sorted - see above! - JT) is quiet tiresome! Reading your posts is a trial in itself.

Are you implying that Ted Williams runs a Motorhome Mechanics business?

:p

It was a very minor club event - not a RAC round or a BARC.

Steve

Have you ever got anywhere with the Rodney Eyles 772 in 1985? He suddenly appears out of nowhere with a highly competitive car and Autosport says nothing.

Allen

As I tell her, INDOORS- get over it:nyah: (Well Steve might, but I won't, so be prepared to get beaten by my editing stick ;) - JT)
Yes, motorhomes; he is in the Bristol area. I had a tel # for him years ago, but that was then, and this is now!

It was a very minor club event - not a RAC round or a BARC.

If that is the case then I suspect the reporter may have been inferring that it was the first time at that venue or even the first time he had seen the car!

In the meantime when I have some time to check I will go back to my records and see what I can turn up.

:relax:

Ted Williams' March 772
I've tried to pinpoint where he first drives the 772 and Autosport kindly obliges (22 June 1978 p57) with a "first time out in his F2 March" remark. So that would imply that he had been in the 752/772 at Curborough 4 June, not the 772 as it says on BritishSprint.org.... I suspect the reporter may have been inferring that it was the first time at that venue or even the first time he had seen the car!OK, I'll go look it up again and give you chapter and verse.It's the Graham Hill Trophy held by the Owen MC at Curborough 18 June 1978. The unnamed reporter refers to Hinley winning in his Lola [T332C] and says "he was given a close run by Ted Williams, out for the first time in his F2 March-Hart". There's no wording anywhere else in the report along the same lines so I'd be confident that he is saying that this is the first time Williams has driven this particular car.

Allen

1. 772 Hart; I assume 420R motor - early cars I do not think ran with 420R

2. Far easier to ask Ted directly as Steve didn't want Rod Eyles tel. no. etc. I will source Ted's# myself

Tel # sorted now, Allen; please get a list of questions that I can put to him:p

...... just to confuse the thread... one for Steve W. Any information on the 722 run on thie hills by Rob Oldaker and Andy Smith,in the late 70s equipped with an Allegro Turbo engine. I'm surprised they needed the turbo, mildly breathed on the engine should have done the job.

Chris

A quick March 772 summary as I've been looking at 1977 and I don't think we've done this before. Lawrence's book says eight were built.

772-1 Pierre Maublanc Swiss & European hillclimbs and F2 1977 [F1R]
772-2 Maublanc for Pierre Bardinon F2 (2 races only) 1977 [F1R]
772-3 Norman Dickson G8 and F2 1977 [MN] - then into Scottish libre racing ...
772-4
772-5 Euroracing/March for Giacomelli & Ribeiro F2 1977 [MN] - Sergio Minotti F2 1978 [F1R] ... this plate now on a ex-Riley 77B
772-6 Euroracing/March for Riccardo Zunino F2 1977 [MN] - Ted Williams ["ex-Zunino"] hills and sprints 1978-79 ...
772-7 Euroracing for Pesenti-Rossi & Ghinzani F2 1977 [F1R]
772-8 Euroracing for Alberto Colombo F2 1977 [MN]
Also:
772-10 Gaudenzia Mantova F2 from May 1977 [F1R] although MN call this a 762 in some results. This number also associated with David Franklin's 1978 hillclimb car but I can't track down why we know that.

The missing 772-4 could be the Euroracing customer car that was written off by Flammini at Vallelunga during the winter. However, that is likely to have been rebuilt so maybe it was Max Mamers' highly successful French hillclimb car.

Another question for Adam: do you records add anything to this?

Allen

Allen, didn't Franklin have a genuine 772 as well as his 782? OTOH I think this would have been -6, Ted W got it after DF. The Dickson car -3, ended up in Sweden from memory.

Don't think so Dan. Franklin and Williams both ran their 772s in 1978.

Allen,

A bit more from the records......

772-3 - noted as having been sold to James Jack
772-4 Angeliri (Euroracing) - Written off by Mantova at Hockenheim in April 77. Rebuilt at factory around monocoque 772-14. Seen to carry pseudo chassis plate 762-6, presumably for carnet reasons (this explains the F1R references to a 762)
772-6 note confirm sold to Ted Williams
772-9 Markus Hotz - delivered 27 May 1977 - virtually a new car built up from the remains of 762-U1 (no doubt sold as a new car - typical March!)
772-10 David Franklin - Built using several second hand components. Fitted with front radiator and 771B nose - collected 26/1/1978

So Mantova's was -4, Hotz' -9, Franklin's -10

Thanks Adam.

772-9 Markus Hotz - delivered 27 May 1977 - virtually a new car built up from the remains of 762-U1 (no doubt sold as a new car - typical March!)That's curious. Hotz appears only once in 1977 (according to F1R), at Hockenheim on 1 May in an unidentified 762. He is next seen at Hockenheim 24 Sep 1978 in a Lista Racing March 782. He'd been a regular DNA in Lista entries in 1975 and 1976 as well but I don't see any Lista entries in 1977. So was that 772 for a customer, as Hotz was also March importer at the time? If it was, I can't see who the customer could have been.

He still runs historic European F2 in a Lista March 762 (chassis 8?) so maybe someone could ask him?

Allen

Interesting that Christian Fischer now has the "ex-Marc Surer" March 772. Surer drove an old 762 for most of 1977 and then the works 772P at the end of the year. Anyone know which chassis Fischer has?

Allen,

Re. the -9 Hotz car, I too suspect it was a customer car.
As no such customer appeared in F2, I would assume it was only used on the Swiss hills. Maybe it had an accident early in its career?

Fischer's car calls itself 772-3

The Dickson car owned 2001 by Bengt Ernryd [Sweden] but now sold I believe.

If all these numbers 1-10 are allocated in Europe what was Masahiro Hasemi's car that debuted in Japan in March 77?

Chris

Did Hasemi have a 772? I have him in a Kojima early 1977 and then a Chevron B40 later in the year. My data's from the JAF site.

Had a quick look at F1R and they have Hasemi as a DNA at Suzuka 6 Mar 1977 (http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.asp?RaceID=J77N) with a 772. I can't see it again in their book nor on Formula2.net. As it was only a DNA, maybe it never existed.

Allen

A fresh March 772 summary. Lawrence's book says eight were built but Adam has revealed another two built from parts.

772-1 Pierre Maublanc French & European hillclimbs and F2 1977 [F1R] ...
772-2 Maublanc for Pierre Bardinon F2 (2 races only) 1977 [F1R] ...
772-3 Norman Dickson G8 and F2 1977 [MN] - Jimmy Jack 1978 [AF] ...
772-4 Angeliri (Euroracing) for Gaudenzia Mantova F2 1977 (retubbed on monocoque 772-14 after Hockenheim and wore plate '762-6') [AF] ...
772-5 Euroracing/March for Giacomelli & Ribeiro F2 1977 [MN] - Sergio Minotti F2 1978 [F1R] ... this plate now on a ex-Riley 77B
772-6 Euroracing/March for Riccardo Zunino F2 1977 [MN] - Ted Williams hills and sprints 1978-79 [AF] ...
772-7 Euroracing for Pesenti-Rossi & Ghinzani F2 1977 [F1R] ...
772-8 Euroracing for Alberto Colombo F2 1977 [MN] ...
772-9 Built from 762-U1 - Markus Hotz for customer May 1977 ...
772-10 Built using several second hand components. To David Franklin Jan 1978 - Alan Richards 1979-80 ... John Meredith 1982 [AS 8 Apr 1982 p46] ...

1977 - 772s in French hillclimbs

I was somewhat confused by the number of 772s that appear on the French hills before Hotz' car is delivered in May but my vast Eschappement collection explains some of this. The season starts:

Valflaunes 20 Mar 1977 - no 772s (Lapierre in a 762 + 1 742)
Ampus 27 Mar 1977 - Maublanc 1st (Pozet in a 762 + 2 752s and a 742)
Baglos-Sabran 27 Mar 1977 - no 772s (+ 1 742)
Cagnotte 3 Apr 1977 - no 772s (Mamers and Lateste in 762s + 1 742)
Hebecrevon 3 Apr 1977 - Maublanc 2nd (+ 2 742s and one other March)
Chanas 11 Apr 1977 - no 772s (Pozet in a 762)
Tonnerre 17 Apr 1977 - Mamers 2nd, Maublanc 4th, Lapierre 6th (Pozet in a 762 + 3 752s and a 742)

However, Escappement (May 1977 p132) says of the Tonnerre event:Encore auréolé de sa victoire d'Ampus, P. Maublanc disposait de la toute nouvelle March 772 animée par la BMW, tandis que celle de mamers et du vanqueur 75 et 76 Lapierre d'aspect identique etaient des "reconditionnées 77".In other words, Maublanc's car is new but the Mamers and Lapierre cars are older cars revamped. As they both drove 762s a few weeks before, one assumes they had 762/772s.

Marc Pozet is in the ex-Mieusset 762 by the way.

1978 - 772s in F2

Apart from Minotti's '772-5' [F1R], OASC Racing Team had a '772' for Jerich, Mantova had one at Vallelunga and even at Donington, and a guy called Henning Hagenbauer had one at Hockenheim. A reference in F1R to Dickson in 772-3 is wrong of course - that was his 772P.

Other '772's

Ted Dzierzek in 1981 and Rodney Eyles in 1985.

Anyone got anything to add?

Allen

Another update:

772-10 Built using several second hand components. To David Franklin Jan 1978 - Alan Richards 1979-80 ... John Meredith 1982 [AS 8 Apr 1982 p46] ... Rodney Eyles [advertised AS 9 Feb 1984 p58] ...

Advertised as "March 772 rolling chassis inc FGA gearbox Pilbeam modified David Franklin 1978 championship car ... Rodney Eyles Wellington".

772-3 Norman Dickson G8 and F2 1977 [MN] - Jimmy Jack 1978 [AF] ...

Other '772's

Ted Dzierzek in 1981Drifty's been talking to Stuart Lawson and we've moved 772-3 forward. We already know that Jimmy Jack used it mainly for hillclimbs and had it until the end of 1979. At that point the 772, still with its BMW engine, was sold to "guy in Gloucester can't remember his name ... he was a director of Barclay's Bank and used it for Hillclimbs ... he lived on a huge estate and had a whole stable of very expensive old racing cars, I went there and saw his impressive 'Castle'".

Lawson bought it back from this man some time around May 1981 (my estimate) part-exchanging his recently-purchased ex-Hunter March 80A. The 772 now had a Hart engine and Lawson then shared it with Ted Dzierzek through the rest of 1981.

Steve, Ted - remember anyone in Gloucestershire matching that description? Wasn't you was it Ted :)

Ted Williams maybe???

Drifty's been talking to Stuart Lawson and we've moved 772-3 forward. We already know that Jimmy Jack used it mainly for hillclimbs and had it until the end of 1979. At that point the 772, still with its BMW engine, was sold to "guy in Gloucester can't remember his name ... he was a director of Barclay's Bank and used it for Hillclimbs ... he lived on a huge estate and had a whole stable of very expensive old racing cars, I went there and saw his impressive 'Castle'".

Lawson bought it back from this man some time around May 1981 (my estimate) part-exchanging his recently-purchased ex-Hunter March 80A. The 772 now had a Hart engine and Lawson then shared it with Ted Dzierzek through the rest of 1981.

Steve, Ted - remember anyone in Gloucestershire matching that description? Wasn't you was it Ted :)

Tony Brown appeared at Shelsley Walsh in 1981 with a March 80A/81A. The car had white sidepods, dark blue upper bodywork with white/red stripes.

:cool:

How loaded was Tony Brown?

So the Stuart Lawson car was 772#3, now believed to have gone to Sweden and now driven by Christian Fischer in Euro F2 and now with BMW engine again.

How loaded was Tony Brown?

I have no idea. I was just pointing to someone appearing with the relevant car at about the time you mentioned.

:)

stuart has confirmed tony brown is the man he dealt with over the 772/80A march cars

whilst searching for other info found the car was for sale in this advert
www.race-cars.com/carsold/march/772xf2/772xf2ss.htm

That is 772-3.I think that the "man with castle in gloucestershire" might be a "red herring" ps Allen I live in an old pub. pps I owned a 722.

Tony Brown's castle is bigger than yours, even if he doesn't have a full-sized ballroom.

So twinkle toes have u been gliding around the floor there?
Ted are the pumps and barrels still in tact? or do you mean u dont go home that often FROM the pub?
772#3 is a 772 car wide tub ex Tony Brown swapped with Stuart Lawson for 78B

The 772#3 car is now in EEC under " house arrest"

Pumps and barrels taken away in 1939. The dance hall was last used in the 60s when my late father ran the local jazz club. All this very off topic !!!!!!!

i thought we had found a venue for the annual 10 10 xmas party!

DW, where does Stuart Lawson's "78B" come into this???

I think if u read up on the 772P thread u get some info
Stuart part ex his 78b car against 772#3 car

I think you mean his 80A, the ex-Hunter car.

Thought you might be interested to know that 772-3 has returned to Gloucestershire once again where it is being restored to race next year

who owns the car now it was impounded by the switzerpolizie

It was never impounded by the police,only the Swiss Court

Ted, can you fill in its history since Stuart Lawson had it in 1981? It's been associated with Christian Fischer and Bengt Ernryd in posts above but maybe it's now possible to put together a complete history.

No problem Allen there is a large history file with it.

It was never impounded by the police,only the Swiss Court same concept!!

Not really Driftwood

BTW Ted, when are you going to post the history file on the 772?
I thought I'd better return this thread to relevance before the headmaster comes down on us...

Chris

(Yes, too right Chris; 11 completely off topic posts removed - that'll teach me to stop checking so regularly! - JT)

Chris as soon as I go and collect it from its owner.

I'm going to double post this as it might be a 772 or a 772P:

Autosport 21 Apr 1983 p44: Basil Pitt "has acquired the ex-Alan Harper March 772P" for the 1600cc class.

There is a picture and although the nose looks 772P-ish, the sidepods look 79B-ish. Do we know about Alan Harper owning a 772 or 772P?

Steve - are you in contact with either gentleman?

THIS MAY BE 772P r3 THIS CAR IS PROBABLY THE PETER BLOORE BUILT CAR THATS STILL IN HILLCLIMBS TODAY

772P1 was in Uk racing libre
772P2 was in usa by now so it leaves the 3rd unofficial 772p car that was on the hills

There seems to be some confusion over 772 and 772P !!!! The 772P was a NARROW tubbed car that used a 752TUB ,whereas the 772 was a WIDE tubbed car.making them easy to spot in photos.

There's no confusion Ted. Drifty reminds us of the difference frequently. The photo of Pitt's car is head on and it's hard to tell whether it's a wide or narrow tub.

772P built on 752 tub? Are you sure Ted, surely they were built on 77B-type tubs.

To sum up, the 752, 762 and 772 are all basically the same car, and all by March's heady standard fairly average. The 772P was based on the 712 type of car/monocoque that had previously been so successful.

Dan

77Bs were built on F3 tubs, so probably rather too lightweight for F2. I thought that the first 772P used a 742 tub but as Simon says all [except I think the 772] were pretty interchangeable. One of the points about the 772P was that having sold a bunch of cars with new style wider tubs, the works went back and engineered something quicker around the old style. [Much as they re-engineered their cars in 1974 when they realised it didn't work with the 1974 spec tyres, having sold about 30 customer versions...]

Chris

The 712 (and all of its derivatives), the 722 (and all its derivatives), the732 (and etc) and the 742 (etc) are basically all the same animal. This fact was used early on in historic racing to "mickey mouse" 712s from all sorts of the above. It also explains why in the period one type of car could morph so easily from one type of March to another. The only real difference between them is that some works and favoured customer cars got better quality aluminium in the construction of their tubs. In 1975 the first major change came with the 752 tub. The "coke bottle" shaped tub had the deformable structure contained within the tub structure for the first time, and used castings at the rear of the tub to take the loads of the now wider based engine frames. This had the added benefit of allowing far easier conversion to F1 and F5000 (a fact that has also been used in Historic racing!) This monocoque was then also used for the 762 and 772 cars, and their bigger brethren, before as discussed above they reverted to the earlier construction for the 772P. Then following a short flirtation with the "Superform" bulkhead shaped tubs for the 78 and (formula two excepted) 79 customer cars the needs of ground effects and ever shorter build numbers meant ever more varied designs. Up untill the end of 79 the real genius was that many of the basic building blocks of construction, internal tub dimensions, wheel offsets, hub designs etc very rarely change, so as with Rons cars many of your last years (or maybe even earlier) spares would still fit, or to put it another way your libre or hillclimb car was a pretty simple build..... Just going off to see if my anorak still fits......

Chassis numbers given by Autosprint for March 772s at Vallelunga 15 May 1977 and I tend to think that their reporter was reading plates that day, given the changes from earlier races on other cars in the field

Pesenti-Rossi 772-7
Mantova 772-10
Colombo 772-8
Zunino 772-6
Ribeiro 772-5 Hart described as Giacomelli's car earlier in the season

Chris

Very useful. Fortunately, it largely confirms what we had except for the '772-10' on Mantova's car. Presumably the journo improvised whne he realised he was looking at a 762 plate on a 772.

Allen

Very useful. Fortunately, it largely confirms what we had except for the '772-10' on Mantova's car. Presumably the journo improvised whne he realised he was looking at a 762 plate on a 772.

Allen

Maybe the 762 was "refreshed" at the March factory and "acquired" a 772 plate in the process?

Funny things tend to happen when Max Mosely is around!

:sfan:

It was covered on page 1 of this thread Steve. The 772 wore a 762 plate after a rebuild.

It was covered on page 1 of this thread Steve. The 772 wore a 762 plate after a rebuild.

I think this is perhaps, what really happened

Mantova already owned 762-14 at the end of 1976, which he had bought from Pesenti-Rossi. He enters a 762 but DNAs at both Silverstone and Thruxton 1977. He's a DNS at Hockenheim having made a mess of what is entered as a 762. He DNA's at Nurburgring, and then shows up at Vallelunga with 772-10.

If the March records are right he writes off 772-4 at Hockenheim, not the 762. I guess that this car appears only briefly before then, having perhaps been Brancatelli's car at Thruxton.
772-10 is a rebuild of bits of 762-14. I suspect that 772-4 carried its plate and got sold off, as a 762, to a privateer.
I have very few real chassis observations for 1977, so Vallelunga is invaluable and I shall be investing in some more Autosprints asap to see what they say about Misano, Mugello and Enna. Does anyone have German magazines from this period?

Chris

Most of you will have seen this photo on the Brabham BT36 thread, but I'll post it here anyway in case someone can help.

These side pods I understand are March 772, apparently attached by means of a metal frame clipped onto the chassis.

My guess is that it was after June 1980 but I can't be sure about that, so I have no clues to offer at all.
Were these type of pods superseded by later ones, making them easily available?
Would these then have been cast offs? or are they from a crashed car?
What series could it possibly have been used in? Hill climbs perhaps?

http://www.oldracingcars.com/Images/ferret/10Tenths-test01-1000x.jpg

Andrew

Andrew

They certainly look like March 772 pods.
Two were sold new to France in 1977 and another probably joined the party in 1978. All were used on the mountains. [It's a bit of a misnomer to call the French events hillclimbs!]

Most of those cars had long lives in those events, so even by the mid 80s a 772 would still be around. Also, they tended to get new bodies, so a pair of old pods could easily be discarded and used to "refresh" an even older Brabham.

Chris

Except the 772 doesnt have sidepods, what you see on a 772 are the actual aluminium tub sides (usually painted)

So Simon what's your take on these, are they just March look-a-likes 'cause I assume (but perhaps Ted or Matthew will tell us) that they contained the original Brabham fuel tanks?

No March that I recognise, could be French possibly or home built (no compound curves!)

definately not early March or the 80`s GE car pods- look like DIY jobs and it would be easy to cover the Brabham fuel tanks with the shape of pod that where fitted
there is a french website like 1010 if your french is good try starting a thread for this car running on the mountains asking for photos race results drivers names etc
sorry i cant help typical Brit I speak only english and ozzie