floid2000 5 May 2001, 08:16 Why has NASCAR been so unprofessional about this whole earnhart thing?
How many drivers lives has Bill Simpson saved in his long career?
Would a paramedic be apt to cut a belt to remove a body ?
Why not ask Kenny Schraeder (the first person on the scene)about the belt?
The only thing we really know is that Dale Earnhart hit the wall and got killed.
Is NASCAR afraid to admit to thier fans that they should have mandated the "hans" device after last seasons rash of deaths ?
Help me out people
I think NASCAR has acted professionally with this Earnhardt situation, it is just that the media hasn't. They are looking for a controversy because its their job to come up with a good story. NASCAR has said that they will give us the results of their investigation in August. Until then, be patient and enjoy the on track action.
As far as NASCAR mandating the HANS device, even though I would probably wear one I don't think it is necessary to mandate this until there is conclusive evidence that the device is really that beneficial. This device has been around for a decade and my feeling that if it were really the savior of drivers like everyone believes, major motorsports series would have mandated them way before now.
floid2000 6 May 2001, 09:52 I appreciate your comments Joe but, Wasn,t it NASCAR who announced soon after the accident that "the hans device wouldnt have saved earnharts life" ?......Wasn,t it NASCAR who said that the seatbelt was broken ?
and why are they treating Don Simpson like some kind of a "suspect"? It,s sad but true
The human body can not survive a 180mph or so impact.
The reason why they didn't meet with Simpson is: 1) His product is still subject to an investigation in the Earnhardt crash, 2) His new HANS-type product was confisicated after a recent crash when it resulted in pulled tendons in Ward Burton's neck. 3) He didn't have an appointment to meet with Mr France or Mike Helton, 4) Simpson wasn't with his lawyer.
Simpson was probably trying to get the low-down on why they confisicated his HANS=type device and he is upset that NASCAR will not come out and relieve his product of any liability by stating that it wasn't seatbelt failure that resulted in Dale Earnhardt's death. Why does he expect this? Because some physician who reviewed the autopsy photos and report said that he didn't feel that seatbelt failure caused his death. Well, a physician can offer valid opinions about what caused the death from a medical standpoint but they aren't experts in physics or crash dynamics so they cannot make this kind of judgement of whether seatbelt failure did or did not play a role in his death. Their opinion should be considered a piece of the entire puzzle. NASCAR's final report will be issued in August so in the mean time, they still need to conduct their investigation and not let media force this investigation to be played out in the news as they go along.
As far as the statement that the HANS device would not have saved Dale Earnhardt, this did not come from NASCAR but the physician who headed Earnhardt's case. Even one of the inventors of the HANS device said on a CNN interview shortly after the crash, that he couldn't guarantee that his product would have saved Dale's life.
floid2000 13 May 2001, 08:12 C'mon Joe ....You're on the Nascar payroll right ?
Driving a racecar is a dangerous job. Drivers have been killed over the years and thats tragic BUT ,Under what authority does NASCAR "investigate" wrongful deaths, if someone thinks it was due to negligence its the district attorneys job to investigate.Apparently the local coroner didnt believe that any sort of equipment failure had caused Earnharts death, or the state would be investigating whoever manufactured said parts. Any investigation conducted by NASCAR is really a moot point. Sure ....They might blame Don Simpson just so somebody can be the bad guy but,That would be a really lousy way to deal with the situation. Why wasn't Mr. Earnhart wearing a full face helmet like everyone else in any kind if motorsports? Why hadn't NASCAR already found a solution (such as a hans device) after Adam Pettys death. They have dragged thier feet on safety and now they've got to blame somebody. Why don't they let Dale rest in peace and work with people like Don Simpson to better protect "our" drivers.
Joe Fan 15 May 2001, 11:17 Floid, I wouldn't necessarily say NASCAR "dragged their feet on safety" because coming up with solutions to prevent deaths like these aren't necessarily easy. There are legal consequences if they overreact without testing things properly. And some solutions may be too radical to implement in a short amount of time. The deaths of Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin were thought to be due to stuck throttles. Even drivers and fans who were there said that is what they thought happened. One fan even posted that he heard the stuck throttle on Irwin's car at Loudon on another NASCAR forum that same day.
NASCAR did address the stuck throttle problem two-fold after the death to Irwin. But then Earnhardt gets killed which wasn't due to a stuck throttle. However, I believe to be similar to a stuck throttle because at Daytona and Talladega, cars have to run wide open due to restrictor plates. Dale tried to save his car once he got down on the apron and in turn was redirected straight into the wall at a bad angle with little time to react to it. So, basically he hit a ton and was a victim of rapid decelartion. Solving this problem is quite difficult. There are certain strengths and weaknesses of all cars. Did CART ever make their cars fool-proof from preventing a driver's head from being rammed into the ground like it was with Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez? Very little was done to the car but the circuits were modified. What has ALMS done since the death to Michele Alboreto which was plainly due to the same problem? The roll cage in a stock car would have prevented the death to Alboreto. Should open cockpits be banned? Well, that is not for me to decide. Because Irwin and Petty may have survived their crashes in open wheel cars. Michael Schumacher would have walked away from his Silverstone crash in 1999 if he were in a Winston Cup stockcar. I just think that each type of car has certain strengths and weaknesses. Some of the safety issues are very difficult to fix. I am convinced that soft walls seems to be the way to go because it could potentially benefit both open wheel and stock car racing if one is developed that could be universally used for both.
As far as the HANS device, one of the creators has said that his device may have not saved Dale Earnhardt. I have even read where some experts incist that whipping forward motion is not what causes basillar skull fractures. So who really knows how effective this device really is.
As far as the open faced helmet, Earnhardt believed that closed faced portion of a helmet would act as a lever against the chest and facilitate the separation of the neck and head. From a physics standpoint, as much room as there is in a stock car, this makes sense. You have to keep in mind that closed face helmets were created for drivers of open cockpit cars in the first place, to protect them from flying debris. Stock car drivers do not have to worry about flying debris.
I have a problem with the methods employed by NASCAR. Their opinion on safety is it is not their concern, but that of the track owner and team. I am sorry, but NASCAR also has some responsibility in the matter. They don't mandate any safety rules concerning helmets because then they don't want to assume liability on any safety issue.
In the modern racing age, every major racing series has a designated safety crew, safety experts resident at the races and a coherent safety plan and course of action. NASCAR does not. NHRA Drag Racing, CART, the IRL, and Formula 1 all lead the way in actively seeking to make their sport safer for the driver, team and racing fan and yet NASCAR goes along just like it did in 1955. This is not Saturday night late model racing at Tri-State Speedway anymore. Its a trillion dollar a year business. Its also not a matter of machismo or the "shut up and race" mentality that NASCAR projects. It's real easy for the NASCAR officials to stand aside and deflect all blame on someone else while they continue to rake in truckloads of money, after all its not them in the grand stands being struck by flying debris or them absorbing 150gs of force in an impact with the wall.
NASCAR loves to project the good ol' boy, redneck, moonshine runner image that it began with, but it is 2001 and NASCAR is becoming the single largest sports-entertainment business in the US. It is populated by corporate racing teams with multi-million dollar budgets and professional racing drivers. When are the people pulling the strings and making all the huge money going to start acting in the same manner?
There is no real investigation going on concerning the death of Dale Earnhardt. The same with Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin. They are waiting for it to all blow over and they can get back to making some more money. NASCAR attempted to divert blame onto Bill Simpson and he was strong enough to maintain his good name and the good name of his company. Now they are denying all information to the press and it is starting to smell just like a Bill Clinton coverup. If NASCAR does not like what the press are asking and subsequently printing, then tell them what is going on. They will print the truth if they are given the chance. However, what are they supposed to do when all they get is the stonewall? Print that everything is peaches and cream in the land of stock car racing when anyone can see that it is not?
floid2000 18 May 2001, 22:55 Yea ! What he said
I don't want it to seem that I hate NASCAR or am against them, but I disagree with their safety philosophy and the company line that safety is not their concern but the concern of the drivers and teams.
Safety is the concern of every one involved in it. NASCAR, NASCAR's officials, the drivers, the teams, the track owners and the fans are all responsible to behave and act in a safe manner while at the track. Being safe does not make you effeminate, it is not a question of being a man in a man's sport. It is a question of protecting oneself, one's method of employment and the future of an entire sport.
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