Quote:
Originally Posted by isynge
I make no claims to being definitive on this - but both of these felt like Porsche wins to me at the time, and I've not been minded to really change my mind since.
The Dauer was gamesmanship through and through, but undeniably a 962. The WSC-95 has been a little diminished as the full TWR legacy has come out, but still, to my mind, unquestionably Porsche victories.
I wonder what I'd have thought if in the 80s it'd been a Joest 936C or Kremer CK-5 winning - would they have been Porsche wins? I'm less sure. Similarly I'm certain that had it gone the other way in 95 it would have been a Courage result rather than Porsche. Subjective? Probably.
Genuinely interested in what the consensus on this ends up being.
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I remember that in 1987 the very first reports claimed that Porsche took first four positions in Le Mans. Crazy journalists, I would say, nobody really ever doubted that Porsche-powered Cougars, were actually genuine Cougars and I was pleasantly surprised when read the full results with the Cougar listed on podium. But the Joest and Kremer 1982 Group C cars were true Porsches. Just like the 1980 Joest Porsche copy of 1977 factory 936 was officially called Porsche 908/80 and renamed as Porsche 936 in 1982, when the factory 936 effort was finally gone, the 1982 Group C version was a true Porsche. They had even Porsche factory number sequence 936-004 and 936-005 respectively. Would anybody doubt that in Le Mans 1980 Rondeau beat Porsche, and not Joest? I have even never heard such idea.
It was more difficult with the Kremer CK5. For a long time I believed that CK5 should be called Kremer or at least Kremer-Porsche but I can confirm from later research that it was a true Porsche make as well, and thus I removed any references to Kremer in the car designations. Back than in the 1980s it was common that even factory-built 956 and 962C to be officially entered under the team names, like Brun Porsche 956, Kremer SAT Porsche 962C, NewMan Joest Porsche 956, etc. But when the CK5 finished 6th (on points) in the WEC race, it was considered a Porsche, which is a clear proof. Unfortunately the Le Mans races discussed here (1978, 1989, 1994, 1996-1997) were never part of the manufacturers championship, so nobody really bothered to solve it out in a dispute with a clear independent conclusion, just like the mentioned Mirage-Ford battle for championship points in 1967. By the way, I believe that only true Kremer labelled car was the spyder K8.